Chrono Compendium
News and Updates => Site Updates => Topic started by: Agent 12 on June 09, 2009, 02:58:43 am
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In my opinion this is the weakest chapter of the game, you guys can let me know. There is a plus though, if you didn't think the NPC Agent 12 was awesome before....
Video 34 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VmZyEY3mrM&p=E952926C2A6E7039&index=34&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&fmt=18)
Video 35 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vF_OGfWpdY&p=E952926C2A6E7039&index=35&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&fmt=18)
Video 36 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG-tZFkxjJE&p=E952926C2A6E7039&index=36&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&fmt=18)
--JP
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I'll start things off with asking Chrono'99 to expand on one of his comments near the beginning (about the dragon tooth).
--JP
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OMG OUT ALREADY!!! AWAY!
*Edit*
C99, I is really really curious *Goes back to video, eager for C's response x3*
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I complained a bit when that part about the Dragon Tooth was introduced, mostly over how Chronopolis 's ability to detect temporal stuff. (Back when Chrono'99 first revised the plot, he said that Belthasar would have to rely on historical records.) I think C99 didn't like the Dragon tooth retrieval because it would require another time egg usage.
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Hehe, my heart jumped a little when I saw the seemingly random menu exploration in the second video; I thought I'd accidently uploaded footage from a corrupt .ZMV file, but looks like I just left the camera rolling while rummaging through the accessories and thinking. You'll actually see a few seconds' worth of what a corrupt .ZMV looks like later on. It isn't pretty -- characters wander around aimlessly and stuff. When you dump video in ZSNES, the emulator actually runs through the game live, just re-inputting the player's button presses from what I can tell. One tiny change in game memory and boom! Your beautiful bean footage just got fried.
From a player's perspective I thought the chapter turned out really well, the nicest touch being that "accidental" effect on Cakulha. Made a great holographic image, which is what I always figured it was. The mechanical hexapods would have been uber in the final 2%.
I'm not sure what was up with tech learning. It only happened to me on New Game+, not during the first run-through. It's as if the techs from the old run-through were retained but tech learning itself became reset. Might be because I loaded an in-progress game for the New Game +, but that's just a guess.
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that vid was pretty awesome with the modded epoch agent 12 was using was like KABLAMO XD that made my day
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xD. ALL THAT FOR A SILVER STUD?!?! IT'S A NEW GAME +!!! xD That's my favorite line, followed by "NO FW NOT THAT WAY" *Jumps into portal to end game*. You know, I was actually expecting alot more out of the Xamoltan. The final scene with Chrono and Gang, as well as this meeting... The music was a great touch, but... The scene just didn't seem to match the epicness of the music, you know what I mean? Oh well, it was still entertaining.
Also, wasn't Krawlie a boss in the regular CT? A weak one, but a boss none the less. Anywho, I'm counting the seconds in the next 24 hours xD
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I didn't finish the Mecca Krawlies in time for them to be inserted, but they would have looked like this:
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Darkken those..... those are epic....
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Yea Darkken is .....is just amazing.
Vehek - Yea I'm guessing it's the time eggs too. We got Lucca's prototype, returning to Zeal, and now the Dragon Tooth (so far). I never really minded the "sensing time distortions". I feel like if Chronopolis can make the Time Catcher then it must have some sort of technology for that sort of thing.
Mikisho the Xamoltan are not done at all. That was only one of them :) Remember they all have TTI. Were you talking about the meeting with Crono/Marle? I guess we could have made it a little more sappy. Especially since....you know crono thought he lost her.
--JP
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yea, i kinda agree w/jp abt this chapter being kinda weak, esp. the final spot w/cakulha. that "holographic" effect was awesome, tho. not much really more to say, except "on w/the next batch!"
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So were the rest of the Xamoltan really "lost to time", like Cakulha said? Or can we expect them to up again accompanied with much chaos? =D
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I like Darkkens portraits they are nice <3
Can't wait to watch the other videos m its like being in a cinema , i have to get some popcorn ready xD
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Haha...I'll be away until Saturday, so when I get back watching all the videos I've missed would indeed be like a movie... :D
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I was lurking around ever since the C&D was announced, and although some more bad things happened to the Compendium since then, these videos are rays of sunshine on a cloudy day.
Anyway, while CE is looking awesome and professional so far, I did have the unfortunate habit of noticing several plotholes concerning several characters up until this chapter. Now, considering if the CE Team is using the first ending as canon, then several minor characters acquired TTI but weren't accounted for probably due to them being minor characters.
The following characters gained TTI but weren't accounted for: King Guardia XXI (600s King Guardia), Doan, and optionally, Chrono's mom, Gina. I guess these guys and gal slipped the CE Team's mind when you were writing the story, but if you'd remembered these characters gained TTI, what would you'd have done with them. Also, will we be seeing Norstein Bekkler, Doan, and the rest of the world of the year 2305 in the future? Also, what were the other reasons C99 didn't like the explanation for the Dragon Tooth?
Concerning techs, I'm glad a lot were changed and even think a lot more of Chrono, Lucca, and Marle's should have changed as well. Although the five years gives credence to why most of the characters both start at level 1 and with just a few techs, the years definitely helped a few characters improve (Glenn, Robo, Ayla, and Magus) over others (Chrono, Marle, and Lucca). Due to that, it would have definitely be nice to see even more progress for Chrono, Marle, and Lucca even though they lived in relative peace. But...due to the C&D, that's neither here nor there, so no need to get too worried about. If you could have patched the game after release, though, would new tech be added for Chrono, Marle, and Lucca and were single, double, and triple techs reformulated for CE?
Thanks in advanced and keep up the excellent work!!
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I'd like to take this time to reply to the n00bs that will inevitably post around page 3~5 of this, the current newest CEMemorial Chapter release, by telling them to STFU, the next chapter will come out when it comes out! Wait, but do not post that you're waiting. This does not become a countdown to the next Chapter thread once you've watched the videos. No one cares about how long you may or may not have been waiting. Thank you for your time.[/rant]
Anyways...Almost past where I had played through! I'll have to really try to catch up on watching these vids tomorrow when I go to the library (I'm only on the 3rd vid of the entire memorial! V_V)...
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I complained a bit when that part about the Dragon Tooth was introduced, mostly over how Chronopolis 's ability to detect temporal stuff. (Back when Chrono'99 first revised the plot, he said that Belthasar would have to rely on historical records.) I think C99 didn't like the Dragon tooth retrieval because it would require another time egg usage.
Yeah, Time Eggs were very rare in the 3 other games and apparently very difficult to make. In CC Lucca never managed to build complete ones, and Belthasar's pink hollow egg may or may not have been complete. On the other hand we use a LOT of Time Eggs in CE.
Another issue is that Sorin blew up the Dragon Tooth, to prevent the Frozen Flame from using it to recreate Reptites. A destroyed Dragon Tooth can't really be useful as a power source. I guess we could assume that the Chronopolis scientists repair it, but it's not obvious in the dialogue.
Yet another issue, if you go back to the initial point (Chronopolis's need to replace their Dreamstone with another power source), is that it would have been much more simple to simply get the Sun Stone instead. We could assume that the Sun Stone's radiant signature is incompatible with the Chronopolis cloaking device or something, but again, it's not obvious. The Stone does get a plot point later on in the game though.
So yeah, this Dragon Tooth weak spot is kinda my fault. It's right the middle of the game so I guess it fell under my radar during the plot revisions, compared to earlier and later events.
The following characters gained TTI but weren't accounted for: King Guardia XXI (600s King Guardia), Doan, and optionally, Chrono's mom, Gina. I guess these guys and gal slipped the CE Team's mind when you were writing the story, but if you'd remembered these characters gained TTI, what would you'd have done with them. Also, will we be seeing Norstein Bekkler, Doan, and the rest of the world of the year 2305 in the future?
Eh, you're right. The biggest of these minor issues is King Guardia XXI I think. Gina's lack of TTI can be explained if the party crashed the Epoch on Lavos, and Doan doesn't appear in the game (we were limited by tilesets in the future era).
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This is looking amazing so far, and I really like the Epoch mod! (That mecha crawlie also looks fairly badass, as well as the Sorin spritesheet.) The accidental effect on Cahulka was also nice... as mentioned before, it does look very holographic!
I devoutly hope that you'll be showing the optional endings when the playthrough is done :D
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I guess these guys and gal slipped the CE Team's mind when you were writing the story
I pointed out King Guardia XXI's TTI status twice during development. The first time was when the plot element was introduced. I guess maybe they thought it would hurt the "strain from nobody remembering him [Glenn]" element.
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I guess these guys and gal slipped the CE Team's mind when you were writing the story
I pointed out King Guardia XXI's TTI status twice during development. The first time was when the plot element was introduced. I guess maybe they thought it would hurt the "strain from nobody remembering him" element.
The first time I just assumed the final dialogue wasn't inserted yet, and the second time I think I wasn't here to see how the plot outline was being implemented.
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I've been following the whole C&D thing from the very beginning. Though, i decided to register only now-_-"
Guys, thank you for a great job! From all russian Chrono community! The video walkthrough is awesome! You were able to create a great storyline that contains both epic moments and chrono-humor that gives the whole series its inner sparkle. (Agent12 in the last videos is really something *laughts*)
It's a pity, though, that we probably won't be able to get a complete and polished version of the game (or a 98%-finished at this rate). Still...It is said that hope is the last one to die^_-
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Welcome to the Compendium new people, and thanks for the feedback! Darkken, uber job on the sprites as usual, you're our hero man.
As for people like King Guardia and Doan having Time Traveler's Immunity, I always imagined they just ended up in Reptite zoos or something during those timelines once they were Gated in. The Xamoltan might have caught them, but finding a time traveler while traveling through time oneself would be a really "needle in a haystack" situation.
For Crono and Marle, keep in mind that they've been married/together for approximately 5 years at this point. Romantic relationships tend to get less sappy over time, or so I hear...?
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This chapter wasn't bad at all, it certainly wasn't the most exciting, but it had its moments.
On a somewhat related note, how many other sprites did Darkken make for CE? Would it be possible to see any of these in some way, shape, or form?
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I'll make a credits reel once I'm done uploading gameplay footage showing all the new sprites, both used and unused.
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I complained a bit when that part about the Dragon Tooth was introduced, mostly over how Chronopolis 's ability to detect temporal stuff. (Back when Chrono'99 first revised the plot, he said that Belthasar would have to rely on historical records.) I think C99 didn't like the Dragon tooth retrieval because it would require another time egg usage.
Yeah, Time Eggs were very rare in the 3 other games and apparently very difficult to make. In CC Lucca never managed to build complete ones, and Belthasar's pink hollow egg may or may not have been complete. On the other hand we use a LOT of Time Eggs in CE.
Another issue is that Sorin blew up the Dragon Tooth, to prevent the Frozen Flame from using it to recreate Reptites. A destroyed Dragon Tooth can't really be useful as a power source. I guess we could assume that the Chronopolis scientists repair it, but it's not obvious in the dialogue.
Yet another issue, if you go back to the initial point (Chronopolis's need to replace their Dreamstone with another power source), is that it would have been much more simple to simply get the Sun Stone instead. We could assume that the Sun Stone's radiant signature is incompatible with the Chronopolis cloaking device or something, but again, it's not obvious. The Stone does get a plot point later on in the game though.
So yeah, this Dragon Tooth weak spot is kinda my fault. It's right the middle of the game so I guess it fell under my radar during the plot revisions, compared to earlier and later events.
The following characters gained TTI but weren't accounted for: King Guardia XXI (600s King Guardia), Doan, and optionally, Chrono's mom, Gina. I guess these guys and gal slipped the CE Team's mind when you were writing the story, but if you'd remembered these characters gained TTI, what would you'd have done with them. Also, will we be seeing Norstein Bekkler, Doan, and the rest of the world of the year 2305 in the future?
Eh, you're right. The biggest of these minor issues is King Guardia XXI I think. Gina's lack of TTI can be explained if the party crashed the Epoch on Lavos, and Doan doesn't appear in the game (we were limited by tilesets in the future era).
Sorin should have just "contained" the Dragon Tooth, so it wouldn't touch the Frozen Flame. With something like the chest door thing on Bender from Futurama. Then Zeal should have damaged him and sent him in the gate anyway, and we would have ended up with a more smooth conclusion. Sorin still would have "sacrificed" himself, and the crisis would still have been averted. But there wouldn't be the whole "Dragon Tooth Destroyed then Collected" plot hole.
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Sorin should have just "contained" the Dragon Tooth, so it wouldn't touch the Frozen Flame.
That's what I figured happened...Or he sort used himself as a shield, protecting the Dragon Tooth.
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While this isn't JP's favorite chapter, I think it was decent. No game can be super exciting the whole way through- sometimes scenes and quests exist simply to connect two points or to burn some time in a constructive way. Though I think I would've chosen whatever it took to fight Cakuhla, personally... after the scenes in 1 AD Reptite Timeline...
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Anyone else getting 500 Internal Service error when they go to Youtube? Resolved.
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Yea Darkken is .....is just amazing.
Vehek - Yea I'm guessing it's the time eggs too. We got Lucca's prototype, returning to Zeal, and now the Dragon Tooth (so far). I never really minded the "sensing time distortions". I feel like if Chronopolis can make the Time Catcher then it must have some sort of technology for that sort of thing.
Mikisho the Xamoltan are not done at all. That was only one of them :) Remember they all have TTI. Were you talking about the meeting with Crono/Marle? I guess we could have made it a little more sappy. Especially since....you know crono thought he lost her.
--JP
I'm just talking about all the xamoltan scenes in general. Especially the one with Crono's party near the end. I mean, they are the only ones to befriend (In a sense) The two Xamoltan members, and then they just turn on them without a passing glance. I can understand Crono and Magus and Frog. But Cakulha (Or whoever it was in their chapter) Actually thought of them as friends in a sense (Atleast, from what I made out...) But he (She?) too just turned on them and said, "Ok screw you, I'm just gonna kill you now."
I just thought the Xamoltan on a whole could have been done much better. But whatever. There's still 2 left to see, so maybe we'll get a more dramatic scene there (But my expectations were set really only with the two from C,M,&G's chapter). Just thought I'd share my two cents ;)
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Welcome to the Compendium new people, and thanks for the feedback! Darkken, uber job on the sprites as usual, you're our hero man.
As for people like King Guardia and Doan having Time Traveler's Immunity, I always imagined they just ended up in Reptite zoos or something during those timelines once they were Gated in. The Xamoltan might have caught them, but finding a time traveler while traveling through time oneself would be a really "needle in a haystack" situation.
For Crono and Marle, keep in mind that they've been married/together for approximately 5 years at this point. Romantic relationships tend to get less sappy over time, or so I hear...?
I think what he meant was that Glenn and Cyrus wouldn't be unknowns in his era because of the King. I didn't think about it before but that is a god point to bring up, huge plot hole.
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I completely forgot that Zeal stole the Masamune. If I was Guardia, I'd think I was crazy. I may have said something to Leena but overall I'd be like. "Yeah, I totally knew the war wasn't over. I was... Jokeing, yeah that's it. HAHAHAHA FOOLED YOU!" Also I'm pretty sure you could have been like with out the Dragon Tooth we'll need to do something else, but we won't bother you with that. Time is too fragile, and if two entire worlds can die and be born so fast I don't want to mess with it anymore than we must. Also, don't Belthazar and Melchior have TTI? and I need an explanation of why only Crono, Mag, and Frog are the only ones with memory of the reptite timeline. And C99 you said that the reason for mechanical tech in Dinopolis would be explain, is it still coming? Doan is irreverent now too, so don't worry. Uhm, I just realised this didn't Chronopolis say that Zeal didn't exist or it may not have existed, yet Belthazar used people from Zeal in this place? I have a hunch but last time C99 told me to be quite so I'll do just that. I understand why you didn't like this chapter too, if you had let him say something of your answers then it would have been better, it just feels a little... you know.. too easy.
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I tend to agree with whoever Vehek mentioned above saying that if we gave 600 AD King Guardia TTI it would have taken away from the affect we were going for with Glenn coming back and being completely alone...personally I feel like that part of the ending was just sort of to let the player say goodbye to everyone. It's still canon but I dont feel that bad if there's plot holes in CE because of it. Any game with time travel is going to have plot holes I'd rather it be from a minor event at the very end of the previous game than something major :)
Mik- The two Xamoltan from CMG's chapter are a bit more friendly than the one we saw here.....or atleast that's how I see them. The idea of having the "bizarro time travellers" was around for awhile but C99 sort of spear headed their personalities. In CMG's chapter we had the two nice ones that were going to befriend the party. Then our heroes decided to you know.....go destroy the entire timeline were the reptites were from.
But he (She?) too just turned on them and said, "Ok screw you, I'm just gonna kill you now."
I'm not sure where that's coming from though? CMG's emerald dream the Xamoltan were pretty passive until CMG got to the top of the tower. If you check here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcGKIH82Aag at about 1 minute 5 seconds here you can see that they were certainly not the bad guys. Crono was more of a bad guy....but that's expected since he just saw his wife's remains in a cell...
--JP
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Well they trusted CMG, and felt able to talk casually with them. I understand Crono was ticked, but Coyopa didn't seemed phazed by this at all. It was pretty much just a "Why are you attacking us?" "Die" and then Coyopa just kind of accepted it. I was expecting him to feel betrayed, and to portray that. When really he just kind of went "Oh, guess you aren't who we thought you were... Guards, kill them."
I dunno, it just didn't seem right for me. I would have tried to make as emotional a scene as I could. But you guys are the developers, and it's your game. So for what it was, it was still acceptable. I was just expecting more.
Also, would Coyopa and Yaluk remember CMG if they saw them again? Or are they going to go back to their states when they FIRST appeared in 600 AD (IE before they met CMG and were attacked)
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Also, would Coyopa and Yaluk remember CMG if they saw them again? Or are they going to go back to their states when they FIRST appeared in 600 AD (IE before they met CMG and were attacked)
The latter. Unlike Cakulha who managed to time travel again, they didn't seem to be able to.
And you got the time wrong. It's actually 1,000 AD or so. They mentioned being one thousand years after the humans becoming extinct.
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Also, would Coyopa and Yaluk remember CMG if they saw them again? Or are they going to go back to their states when they FIRST appeared in 600 AD (IE before they met CMG and were attacked)
The latter. Unlike Cakulha who managed to time travel again, they didn't seem to be able to.
And you got the time wrong. It's actually 1,000 AD or so. They mentioned being one thousand years after the humans becoming extinct.
1005
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ZealKnight, I'm not sure you understand TTI correctly. TTI is the idea that once you've time traveled somewhere, you'll always emerge from the Gate you used, regardless of the changes at the destination.
CGM, Sorin and the Xamoltan are the only ones that remember the Reptite timeline because they're the only ones that time traveled TO and OUT of it after seeing it. CGM were in Prehistory, they were sent to 1005 AD, they returned to Prehistory, and finally they prevented the resurrection of the Reptites. They'll always remember what they saw because they went there and went back.
On the other hand, Marle (for instance) was in Prehistory, she was sent to 1 AD, and that's it. She died there. She didn't time travel OUT of it. When CGM prevented the Reptite timeline, the Marle that was in Prehistory still emerged of a Gate in 1 AD, but since the timeline was different she experienced different events. What's important is that she's the Marle that was in Prehistory. She's not the Marle that was in a prison in the Reptite timeline. It's not like the prison suddently disappeared around her and the frail Cedric suddenly had a shiny gold armor materialize on his rags.
And C99 you said that the reason for mechanical tech in Dinopolis would be explain, is it still coming?
It was all explained. In Prehistory, the Dragon Tooth, which was made of bones of fallen Reptites, was sent by King Zeal's Frozen Flame to 3 million BC, where the Frozen Flame of that era used it to resurrect the Reptites.* So in a way these new Reptites were created by the Frozen Flame, just like the modern humans were "created" by it (though in their case it's more like "evolved"). These Reptites always thought humans were a corrupted species disconnected with nature, but by 2305 AD they discovered that they suffered the very same corruption, which is why they tried to build the Vision Serpent that would reconnect them with nature.
Uhm, I just realised this didn't Chronopolis say that Zeal didn't exist or it may not have existed, yet Belthazar used people from Zeal in this place?
Mmh, I'm not sure what you're referring to?
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(*I was inspired by this by the way: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon%27s_teeth_(mythology) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon%27s_teeth_(mythology)). Zeality came up with the name Carmine Genesis, a pretty awesome name as always.)
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My guess is ZealKnight's referring to Chronopolis in Chrono Cross.
However, the very existence of the ancient civilization of Zeal has never been proven, so up till this day this theory cannot be confirmed.
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No, he refers to CE's Chronopolis, as there are some Chronopolitans using Zealian NPC sprites.
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Hey, once we get to the climax, will we see all of the endings?
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My point is, he's thinking of how CC's Chronopolis says no proof of Zeal exists. The Chronopolis in CE's time knows that Zeal existed.
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If he refers to CC's Chronopolis, why did he mentioned about Belthasar bringing Zealian people to work there?
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In CE, Belthasar saved a few scientists from the fall of Zeal to serve in Chronopolis. He also recruited a few trustful scientists from the mainland but the Central Regime is unaware of it.
Anyway, if that's what you were referring to ZealKnight, just note how CE's Chronopolis has a different architecture than CC's Chronopolis...That is all I will say ;)
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Being host to where an active gate is, wouldn't Dinopolis be affected by TTI? And since the two Xamoltans were in Dinopolis...Gragh, my head hurts.
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That is what I meant and thanks for cutting me off.
Thanks for the TTI explanation too. Balthazar and Melchior though? Don't they still go to the future? Why wouldn't the Dinos use them? Is it just irrelevant?
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That is what I meant and thanks for cutting me off.
Thanks for the TTI explanation too. Balthazar and Melchior though? Don't they still go to the future? Why wouldn't the Dinos use them? Is it just irrelevant?
Very good thought, I was thinking just that. Where did Melchior go during all this? Why did he just disappear? And Belthazar, who also has TTI in a sense (Granted when he get's TTI'd he get's sent back in time 5 years). Anywho, 3 more hours until the next chapter comes out V ;)
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While I don't know what happened to Belthasar during the Reptite timeline, I did once ask about Melchior. Basically, he, Schala, and all the other people who last traveled to 2305 A.D. drowned in the El Nido sea.
Though, given that the overworld map in the Reptite timeline is different from the normal timeline, it might not work that way.
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Why would the year 1999 have a nuclear missile? No one seems to be at war, and pretty much everyone lives in Chronopolis
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Why would the year 1999 have a nuclear missile? No one seems to be at war, and pretty much everyone lives in Chronopolis
who said anything about 1999? you may be thinking 2305?
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You only see a very small section of 2305. A lot happens in that era out-of-game. The "Chronopolis News Uplinks" talks about a rebellion going on there and how the Central Regime is in conflict with rebels.
Everything escalates out of control when a reptite out for revenge comes out of nowhere and unites the rebels. Zeality can probably comment more. LIke I said this certainly wasn't my favorite chapter but I do think it was important to have at least one chapter in Chronopolis Era and it was useful to show what happened to one of the Xamoltan.
--JP
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Ah, I thought Chronopolis was 1999AD. So the events with Robo/Lucca was an alternate 2305AD, where the Chronopolis on the standard timeline did not exist?
At some point, Chronopolis and Dinopolis "switch places", as stated in CC, eh?
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Yeah, Robo/Lucca were in a Reptite version of 2305 AD. Humans didn't exist there (they were defeated in 1 AD as Marle saw). Chronopolis and Dinopolis don't switch places.