Chrono Compendium
Enhasa Halls - Chrono Series Analysis => Chrono Trigger DS Analysis => Topic started by: Romana on June 06, 2009, 02:46:56 pm
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http://www.rpgsite.net/news/342.html
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ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME
--JP
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Do we know the veracity of that article?
If true, then we know there will be no more official Chrono installments. At least the guessing game is over.
EDIT: Looks like it's legit. All sorts of official news sites are carrying it.
http://www.n4g.com/News-341425.aspx
http://www.news-itc.com/index.php/2009/06/06/square-want-more-chrono-trigger-buy-more-chrono-trigger/
Look up: "Square: Want more Chrono Trigger? Buy More!" on Google for more.
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ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME
--JP
"No I'm not! Buy more! We totally need more money! *laughs*"
Weren't the sales really good? Hell even if they weren't an amazing number of sales, Square still should've seen the waters had been tested and it was popular enough to warrant a new installment.
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EFFING EY.
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Yea, there goes my last sliver of hope that the C&D was cause they cared about the franchise. I'm mentioning this in the next video installment.
--JP
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Chrono is dead. Long live Chrono!
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Fucking hell. Was that some kind of provocation or is he not aware that SE America just shut down their third Chrono fangame in the span of five years? And CT:DS sold more than ANY Front Mission game ever did you fucking vice-president.
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Well, that's a punch right in the nuts. :picardno
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Lolability Meter just hit the top of the charts
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Want more Chrono Trigger?
STOP BUYING FINAL FANTASY SHIT!
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I am not completely buying the news stories, because nowadays news works like this.
News A says XYZ.
News B assumes News A was accurate and also reports XYZ.
News C, D, E, and F reports XYZ as well.
And soon everyone is calling it truth.
Now I'm not denying it, either, I'm just saying, I don't don't trust this 100% just yet...
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Very true Boo. We need an RPG news site to confirm this. This is going to sound silly, but does anyone have a forum account over at RPGamer with more than 10 posts? You can't create topics over there unless you've got 10, and a reputable news site needs to be notified so they can investigate. Or something.
This is rather big news.
EDIT: Actually, Boo makes a very, very, very good point. Everything seems to lead straight back to the site Pyt posted, and I'm unfamiliar with their reputable-ness. Anyone know? Given the timing, this could be a huge hoax just to make it look like SE kicked the fan community down again.
Darn it, we need IGN, RPGamer, or some other really reputable site to get the scoop.
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The best thing to do against Asian douchebaggery? Make your own creation, like I did. Though I'm not trying to advertise mine.
Also, I mean no offense to Asian folk here. It was a... well, I don't know what to call it, but I wasn't saying that as a whole.
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The best thing to do against Asian douchebaggery? Make your own creation, like I did. Though I'm not trying to advertise mine.
Also, I mean no offense to Asian folk here. It was a... well, I don't know what to call it, but I wasn't saying that as a whole.
Ya, except you're getting your Western myth a bit off while doing so...
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What myth?
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What myth?
Your thinking that somehow Mammon is the son of Satan in Christian myth. But whatever.
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Eh.. it is referenced in Constantine.... but I picked it because it just screamed "villain name!"
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Eh.. it is referenced in Constantine.... but I picked it because it just screamed "villain name!"
Yeah, that's not exactly a reliable source, you know. That's pretty cheesy pseudo-myth stuff. I don't know... to me it screams 'money', because that's what Mammon is, actually. In Christian myth he's the demon representation of monetary greed. I'm sure there are books with lists of middle-ages demonology... surely there's one that's fitting for the 'type' that Lavos is...?
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I removed my reference to this from the news post. It is kind of fishy that it is only that one site.... Maybe someone can contact the author?
--JP
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Just fired this off:
Faust Wolf to alex
show details 4:36 PM (0 minutes ago) Reply
Hi Alex, this is FaustWolf, an admin at the Chrono Compendium (a large English-speaking Chrono series news and fansite). We recently learned about your report that Shinji Hashimoto made comments about "unimpressive" CT:DS sales numbers, and we're obviously taken aback.
I was just interested in verifying Hashimoto's comments personally with you, and inquire as to whether Hashimoto's comments will appear in the full Front Mission: Evolved interview. Were other gaming journalists present, or is this an exclusive interview you landed with Hashimoto?
Thanks for any more info you can provide about the context of Hashimoto's comments, and for taking the time to read this.
--FaustWolf
I'll let you know if I get anything in response. It should appear as part of a fuller interview, so hopefully we can verify this quickly after all.
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Well, for creative input purposes, what do you propose for a name?
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It's so wierd that they expect us to buy more ....they should also add the snes release sales and the final fantasy anthology sales it was in as well to that number ....thier would be enough then .
Im sure no one is willing to buy the same game more than once :S
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Well, for creative input purposes, what do you propose for a name?
This isn't your project thread, take that discussion to Kajar.
As for sales.. It seems like CTDS got a lot of sales, but it was a pretty poor year for all of SE's franchises, wasn't it? I would buy another CTDS for my brother, but I don't have the money for it.
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I'd actually never even heard of this site, nor do I find it likely they actually managed to get a chance to ask a non-FF related question. SE's conference in E3 was a FFXIV Q&A, and I seriously doubt anyone managed to confront any SE bigwigs in an interview. It makes sense that there was a Front Mission interview but I'm still skeptical on SE answering just anything from anyone.
Well, for creative input purposes, what do you propose for a name?
Cronko Penis
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Found this on NeoGAF:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=16203277&postcount=15
"Apzonerunner" matches with the MSN address shown in Alex Donaldon's profile.
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Found this on NeoGAF:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=16203277&postcount=15
"Apzonerunner" matches with the MSN address shown in Alex Donaldon's profile.
Can we get this guy to show the VP Crimson Echoes... Pleaseee. FAN MADE (SEVERAL) GAMES!! THEY CAN USE IT (me thinks?)!! JUST TELL HIM TO CONTACT THE COMPENDIUM :O !!
(me hopes that this VP dude from SE of Japan is still around? Is E3 still open?) EDIT-- no, its totally not.... unfortunately...
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I still haven't received an answer, so I assume he's busy getting the full interview up. As Pyt opined, it's kinda weird that rpgsite.net gets an exclusive interview with Hashimoto (rather than, say, IGN), but nor do I see any positive indication that this is fake. I doubt the reporter in question even knows about the C&D we received, but I haven't investigated the site too thoroughly yet.
It'd be great if this were not an exclusive interview but other gaming sites/mags were present (and thus we could vet one source against the others). From the article, I'm not sure one way or another though. I hope I get a reply back.
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I hate it when corporations live in bubbles.
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dont all corperations live in bubbles these days lol
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SE should soon not be surprised if their second MMO turns out to blow mules. FFXI stunk... and FFXIV is sure to change little.
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SE should soon not be surprised if their second MMO turns out to blow mules. FFXI stunk... and FFXIV is sure to change little.
I played XI for a while and honestly? I enjoyed it. Perhaps not great as a FF title, but as a standalone MMO it's pretty fun.
ANYWAY BACK ON TRACK
Looking forward to a reply, I'm remaining skeptical.
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SE should soon not be surprised if their second MMO turns out to blow mules. FFXI stunk... and FFXIV is sure to change little.
no it didn't D:
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I think people are overreacting to this executive's statement (assuming it is legitimate). I interpreted his comments as an advertisement for the CT:DS remake. It's a pretty basic talking point tactic. His ambiguous answer on the state of the Chrono franchise made it sound like we'd be much likelier to get a new game if we bought more copies of the latest game. That sounds like a PR statement rather than a strategic assessment candidly offered to the public--which makes sense given that modern large corporations almost never discuss strategy in public anymore. That's why, even if there is as-yet unannounced Chrono games in development, he'd have been breaking discipline to announce that on his own initiative.
In other words, the exec didn't say anything except that he wants to see more sales of CT:DS. He did not explicitly say that there will or will not be another Chrono game. Simple logic, people! Leaven your minds with the yeast of critical analysis. That's not even his decision to make, and, even if it were, there's nothing stopping the SE board and executive management from changing all its positions tomorrow.
Incidentally, about SE Japan not being aware of SE America's C&D action against us...if SE America's legal department is to be trusted, it was Japan that put the pressure on them to issue the C&D demands in the first place.
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I just want to know why SE can take the time to do 2 completely 3D remakes of FF games for the DS, but can only be bothered to add a pokemonesk side game, and 3 new dungeons that barely, if at all, touch the storyline. So Dalton says he wants revenge, who didn't know that? If square wants it's fans to buy a second port, make it worth their time and money.
I can see why SE loves the FF franchise so much, it is the reason they stayed in business. The reason CT has such a huge modding community and talented modders is because of the lack of titles. One would think SE would see all the fan made content for CT and take it as a sign that people want new Chrono.
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I just want to know why SE can take the time to do 2 completely 3D remakes of FF games for the DS, but can only be bothered to add a pokemonesk side game, and 3 new dungeons that barely, if at all, touch the storyline. So Dalton says he wants revenge, who didn't know that? If square wants it's fans to buy a second port, make it worth their time and money.
Exactly. Given the fact that on the surface CT:DS looked like a straight port, I think those sales numbers are great.
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I can see why SE loves the FF franchise so much, it is the reason they stayed in business. The reason CT has such a huge modding community and talented modders is because of the lack of titles. One would think SE would see all the fan made content for CT and take it as a sign that people want new Chrono.
correction: FF is the reason SQUARESOFT stayed in business. almost no one originally squaresoft is left after the "merger," so it figures enix wants to take out those that prevented dragon quest from being number one, starting w/chrono.
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You do not know how mergers work. Enix has no real say into the goings-on of Square.
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I just read that SE wasn't impressed with the CT:DS sales. I was wondering though, does this seriously affect the possibility of having a new Chrono game? Does it even damper the possibility of a Chrono Cross remake as well?
It's hard for me to fathom that SE would throw away a great series. :(
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Depends on how you view it Toan. If you take it from Lord J's angle, it essentially amounts to a publicity stunt, a weird attempt to make people rush out and buy second, third, and fourth copies of CT:DS for fear that SE won't make another Chrono game. By promoting panic and misunderstanding, maybe he hopes to shock the gaming populace into a second wave of giving SE money.
However, Hashimoto's comments seem far more venomous than the simple oblique statements we've heard in the past. "Why, we'd love to continue the Chrono series, but Dream Team members a, b, and c are busy with Final Fantasy XI XIV." "We'll see, maybe if enough people buy CT:DS, they'll see another Chrono game!"
Hashimoto came off like, "What, Chrono? Pffft, the consumer has spoken on that, and not loudly enough."
Hashimoto's choice of words here tells me that Square Enix has absolutely no interest in continuing the Chrono franchise. Especially as long as he has any say-so in the matter. However, I'd like to see the full interview rpgsite.net is supposed to release in case that was a poor translation or something. It certainly is odd that he said that in response to a question on Front Mission, which has consistently performed well below Chrono levels yet made it to 5 main games, plus Front Mission: Gun Hazard, plus this new iteration.
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Chrono is seeming to share the Legaia sagas' fate, according to SE.
At least Chrono actually had a sequel and continued development. Legend of Dragoon was never again touched.
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LOL was great! L2DS wasn't as good but still good.
but the fact the two were unrelated doesn't help.
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correction: FF is the reason SQUARESOFT stayed in business. almost no one originally squaresoft is left after the "merger," so it figures enix wants to take out those that prevented dragon quest from being number one, starting w/chrono.
You have no idea what you're talking about. 1/ A gigantic majority of Squaresoft people are still at Square Enix, unfortunately they don't all have executive powers. 2/ As V said above, the Enix part has not much say in the goings-on of Square, as the SE President Wada was the president of Square before the merger, and Vice President Hashimoto has been working at Square since 1995. 3/ Dragon Quest has always been number one. 4/ The creator of the Dragon Quest series has never been an Enix or Square or Square Enix employee to begin with. 5/ The merger is the reason Square stayed in business.
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Just got a response back from Alex, who had the interview with Hashimoto:
Hi FaustWolf,
This was an exclusive interview. If you wish to verify the accuracy, I can
always photograph some of my E3 credentials, but if you take a look at
some of our content over the coming days (Crystal Bearers Interview, Front
Mission Interview, FF13 Interview, Mass Effect 2 Preview, Star Wars: The
old Republic preview) you'll find it quite clear we were indeed at the
show and had a bunch of behind-closed doors stuff.
There was only one other journalist present, from a French gaming
magazine. Also present there was a translator and two employees from
Double Helix, the guys working on Front Mission Evolved.
They will appear in the full Front Mission interview, but I'm yet to
transcribe the full interview from the original audio. I would provide
audio itself but sadly I'm not allowed to. I'm not sure if it'll be before
I fly back to the UK (Tuesday), but I'll do my best. There's a lot of
features for us to catch up on.
Context is as follows: Front Mission Evolved is an evolution of the Front
Mission franchise (who knew?) from a company outside of Square Enix.
Double Helix is a Western developer. The interview was for Front Mission
and was as I said with 2 employees from Double Helix and Hashimoto.
In the final segments of the interview, I asked Hasimoto if he could see
Square Enix handing any other loved but neglected IPs off to external
companies. He asked what franchises. I suggested Chrono Trigger or Mana.
The response was as you see in the article.
He basically chuckled and asked why everyone asks about Chrono Trigger -
my response was that it's a much-loved franchise. He said the sales
figures didn't bear this out, and if it was so loved and a sequel so in
demand, people should buy more copies.
Hope that helps you out!
-Alex
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So a SNES cart, PS1 disk, and a DS Cart, all of which contain the same thing, baring the cutsecens, and they want us to keep buying the same recycled game. Then there is Chrono Cross, only a PS1 release, and that can't even be played unless you still own a PS1 or a PS2. They are missing an entire generation by only porting 1 of the 2 Chrono games to the DS. Hell, Chrono Trigger Resurrection could have provided them with pre-made 3D models, and Crimson Echoes could have provided them with an entirely new game, all with next to no work for SE. Either give up rights to Chrono and let it's fans keep it alive, or make some NEW content FFS.
Hell, I'm still waiting for the cold day in hell when there is a legit Terranigma release in America. (Enix title)
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True. All told, Chrono Trigger alone has sold a grand total of 3.19 million, and that's excluding Final Fantasy Chronicles on the PSX -- for which VGChartz lacks numbers entirely. That's 3.19 million for the exact same material, plus some very small bonuses added each iteration.
Compare that with 2.32 million sold in the entire Front Mission franchise. 8 full games plus one re-release. Oh, obviously the thing to do is make another Front Mission game and forego the much more profitable Chrono. What great business acumen you have, Mr. Hashimoto. (Actually, sales numbers are missing entirely for Front Mission outside Japan; this point may not hold if Front Mission; Front Mission 3; and Front Mission 4 sold well outside Japan, since those were all localized at least in the US).
If Square Enix hates Chrono that much, the clear thing to do is sell the property to Sega, which has demonstrated the capability to get Masato Kato and Yasunori Mitsuda in the same room and pay them to create stuff. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sands_of_Destruction) Those two are the spirit of Chrono IMO, and it's not that hard to get them together considering they seem to enjoy collaborating majorly. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirite)
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VGChartz is not necessarily entirely accurate.
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Anyone know if Square Enix releases its internal sales numbers, and where?
EDIT: Just realized that Front Mission 3 and 4 don't even have sales numbers for outside Japan on VGChartz. That would bump up Front Mission numbers, though I'm not sure by how much. In any case, data's certainly missing.
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Also present there was a translator and two employees from
Double Helix, the guys working on Front Mission Evolved.
Saw this on the official Front Mission blog:
http://blog.square-enix.com/fmpi/2009/06/e3_2009_report_-_2.html
(http://blog.square-enix.com/fmpi/images/2009e3-04.jpg)
This is Hashimoto (right) with two guys from Double Helix. Michael "Sax" Persson (center) is the vice president of Double Helix rather than a simple employee, but this pretty much confirms that the interview did happen.
EDIT: The two most recent Front Missions (FM 2089 and a DS remake of FM1) still sold like shit though according to most gaming news sites. They didn't even bother releasing them outside of Japan.
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Hashimoto can suck my dick.
Fuckin' douchebag.
Why does every like Chrono Trigger? BECAUSE IT WAS AN ENJOYABLE GAME! NOT A FUCKING REHASH OF THE SAME MECHANICS OVER AND OVER AND OVER!
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If this gives any consolation; when I visit Japanese pages such as Nico Nico or Pixiv, I see new Chrono videos or artwork submitted almost daily by various people. To me, it shows that it is still quite loved by the Japanese youth.
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That does give insight.
I think for now we should call Crimson Echoes the new chrono game despite the inability to play it.
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This has actually given me new hope in the Series. I am surprised no one else is excited. If SE really thinks this then this now opens up a WHOLE NEW POSSIBILITY, Some one buying it off them! Newer developer are always trying to get a foot in the door, a very common way to do that is to buy a well known IP and use it.
In fact they couldn't have come to their conclusion recently. They saw the numbers they knew that it wasn't working. If they are intending to make the IP sellable the deal must be presentable. In which case the C&D can be seen in a very different light.
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I whipped up this pic with Hashimoto in it to express the situation:
(http://i41.tinypic.com/2vamqzn.png)
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palmer, that's a great one for the Chrono Comix thread. Might have to do a forum search to find it.
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Thanks!
I accidentally saved it as a jpeg halfway through rather than PNG, at first, I thought I would revert it. Then I realized the artifacts made the Lucca and Chrono faces blend in better! :lol:
Oh, and I threw in an easter egg for the observant viewer right above the topmost hundred dollar bill.
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I saw that. It's hard to see, but you can make it out.
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I'm gonna pretned it was said sarcasticly (seriously it's possible) and it was taken out of context. I mean would anyone REALLY act that dumb and say that infront of people who buy your games.
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I interpreted his comments as an advertisement for the CT:DS remake. It's a pretty basic talking point tactic. His ambiguous answer on the state of the Chrono franchise made it sound like we'd be much likelier to get a new game if we bought more copies of the latest game.
That was my immediate impression. And is he just pimping out the series for more money, or do his views truly reflect how a good majority of SE feels? What were the sales figures for CTDS? .88 million, according to the possibly unreliable VGChartz.com (http://www.vgchartz.com/games/game.php?id=24237). In comparison the FFIV DS release reportedly had .98 million (http://www.vgchartz.com/games/game.php?id=13437), and has its sequel planned for a Wii release, right? I don't understand SE, but I'm not surprised that they're more interested in the sales than anything else.
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With a little imagination, good writing or coding skills, a graphics maker, and a music composer, just fight fire with fire.
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KitsuneSefam Not Impressed by Square-Enix Attitudes.
Has it ever came to mind that a CT sequel might cost more to produce than a FF/DQ game due to the scenario and the series being based on innovation and not constant rehashing?
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They'd also have to hire out freelancers Kato and Mitsuda...
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Kato and Mitsuda shouldn't be the only ones. I mean, they're human and won't be around forever.
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Agh, should have posted this yesterday! Alex Donaldson sent me this followup and I just now saw it in my inbox:
To clarify one last thing for some of your readers: If you look at the
Chrono Trigger numbers, it's done well overall yes and has far
out-performed Front Mission. (Yes, I glanced at your thread!)
This is true. However, if you look at the sales in detail, the vast
majority of the Chrono Trigger sales were in Japan - it's been doing
fantastically in Japan, merely ok in the US and EU. Off the top of my head
it's around 200,000 in the EU - pathetic numbers - and 600,000 in the US.
Square's reasoning behind doing Front Mission - and Hashimoto went into
detail about this - is that only a few (three, I think) Front Mission
games have been released outside of Japan, and only one in Europe. Unlike
Chrono Trigger, they believe Front Mission hasn't had a 'chance' to go
big, whereas Chrono Trigger has.
That's why they're handing Front Mission - a franchise with guns,
explosions etc - off to a company more experienced in making those kinds
of games to try to make it big.
Huge thanks to Alex for not only traveling a zillion miles to interview Hashimoto (I think rpgsite.net is based in the UK) and land other exclusive interviews, but for taking the time out to give us some insight into how Square Enix interprets the market trends we've been armchair analyzing here.
Sometimes in business it's all about growth. Japan is one set of islands amongst an assortments of huge markets that Square Enix has set its eyes on, and people like Hashimoto feel that Front Mission has greater growth potential than Chrono. I'd still say that Hashimoto's interpretation of Chrono sales is flawed (there's a fair likelihood CT:DS sales were down in comparison to Chrono Trigger SNES because the market for that specific game had already become saturated), but it is what it is.
I'm looking forward to the full interview once it's transcribed. We might be able to get a general sense of Square Enix's psychology (or at least that of Hashimoto), and from that get a better handle on the likelihood of new Chrono games within the foreseeable future.
But I'll say this -- giant robots and Chrono are certainly not mutually exclusive, right?
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Yes, he knows there was also a PS release as well right...?
And they think its cool to shut down fan-games and such, but it's okay to just keep the series stagnant.
Eventually people will forget and when they do try to do another chapter in 2041, not many of us will still be playing video games...
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Wow that was really cool of him FW! Make sure you send him our thanks.
Hopefully he saw some of the CE videos too :)
--JP
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that is just bullcrap squareenix. you're just being babies with your final fantasies if that is what you are for your fans. give us what we chrono fans want. we bought your products for nothing and this is how you repay us?
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I get the "growth" thing, but a few things still don't add up to me. According to the site we're pulling the overall CT:DS numbers, Final Fantasy IV Advance only sold about a quarter of that. Yet FFIV goes on to recieve a full 3D remake with voice acting, and now a full sequal on WiiWare. I know FF is there baby, but why test the waters with one game, see results like that, and greenlight the royal treatment... and then be so condescending about a series you gave a similar kickstart to and had much better sales with? I mean, CT was once considered such a success that (for the US market) they packaged it WITH Final Fantasy IV.
If this is the new attitude, why not just throw it on Virtual Console, like they did with Mario RPG? The FF ports all sell fairly low, but they keep putting those out, re-releasing, remaking, and now adding sequels too (serialzied even! FF IV's sequal is coming out in installments, two at 800 points and a few at 300 points). CT:DS is about as intensive a release as any of those (those got graphical touch ups, new dungeon(s), a bestiary- does Square think they're monster battling sim and item glossary are *that* spiffy?). The Chrystal Chronicles series sells weaker than CT:DS, aside from the first game (which sold weaker than the original CT release). Ditto the Tactics series.
So, seriously, what the hell?
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Yet FFIV goes on to recieve a full 3D remake with voice acting, and now a full sequal on WiiWare.
The WiiWare sequel is a port of a Japan only cell phone game that's at least a year old, if not more, at this point.
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Yet FFIV goes on to recieve a full 3D remake with voice acting, and now a full sequal on WiiWare.
The WiiWare sequel is a port of a Japan only cell phone game that's at least a year old, if not more, at this point.
Looking deeper, I see the mobile phone release sold extremely well (though I don't know if the numbers I'm seeing indicate the whole game or individual chapter downloads, or reflect the subscription-based micro-transactions vs paying for a whole game on the spot), but even referring to the original Japanese release I still stand by my point. Why? Because FFIVA came out 3 and a half yrs ago and didn't exactly fly off shelves. And knowing this, that means the sequal was greenlit before the DS remake of IV had time to make a huge impact on such a decision (they were only a few months apart, so some simultaneous development must have occurred).
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The mobile phone version had 3 million downloads, from what I understand. That excludes the free prologue chapter, but I'm not sure how that figure relates to the various chapters...
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Of course the sales were unimpressive. It was a re-re-release of the same fucking game we've been playing for almost fifteen years with minuscule differences. They give Final Fantasy IV a remake from the ground up even though no one wanted one, yet after shutting down Chrono Trigger Resurrection they give us another fucking port.
New ending? Great, but what the hell does it even mean?
I guess now, we'll never know.
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The FFIV remake was after 3 previous ports though, I believe...I wanted a remake and was glad we got one. FFIV DS rules and FFVI DS will kick even more ass if they actually get around to it...and besides that, FFIV DS was handed off to Matrix Software, so there's always hope they could do the same with CT sometime down the line...Maybe if it was called Final Fantasy: Chrono Trigger...:lol:
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Kickass work getting those comments from Alex Donaldson! :kamina
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Yeah, Alex was pretty awesome about it. He gave me those sizable answers while suffering from jet lag I'm sure. He still hasn't finished transcribing his full interview with Hashimoto, or at least it's not up on RPGsite.net; there may be some more insight into Hashimoto's mindset in the full thing.