Chrono Compendium
News and Updates => Site Updates => Topic started by: Agent 12 on May 27, 2009, 08:44:57 pm
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Hello Everyone,
First off to ease the tension you can watch the first two YouTube videos of the announcement here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abUSev5e2Is&feature=channel_page&fmt=18) and here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fH_uz1Qrd4&feature=channel_page&fmt=18). Future videos will be released under the YouTube username CEMemorial.
If you haven't been here since the C&D please read some of the informative posts below me which clear up some common misconceptions about Crimson Echoes.
I know it has been awhile since the last update, unfortunately the wait wasn't as productive as I had hoped for. It's time to fill everyone in on what has happened since we received the C&D.
On May 8th we received a C&D from Square Enix. The following Monday I managed to talk to a lawyer at their NA headquarters. We talked for awhile but it was very unproductive. He is very good at his job and it was quite obvious that I wouldn't get any information out of him (all of his responses were less than 3 words). The only part of the conversation I was happy with was that I agreed to not update the site about the conversation if they would give me some sort of official response to this whole fiasco. I was happy with this because at the time several people thought we were making up the story and an official response would prove it was legit and also just be awesome. Since talking to the lawyer I have been in contact with PR rep from their NA office asking for said update. I regret to inform everyone that yesterday Square Enix backed out from releasing an official response.
I'm not sure if this was some sort of low tactic by them to wait for the story to die down or if everything is just badly organized over there, but I'm really really angry about this. I wasn't deluding myself into thinking that they were going to drop the C&D but I did think they would give a more PR friendly response to the game something as simple as "thanks for supporting the franchise but we are legally obliged to make you stop developing this game" would have made me happy. Now the only response Square Enix gave to what might quite possibly be their most devoted fans was a poorly worded "legalese" speak C&D.
I realize that a significant portion of the internet is wearing tin foil hats and believes that we are making this up. There isn't much I can do to dissuade them, I have decided not to release the email/name of the person I was talking to. I'm not sure how influential she was in the decision but in case she is innocent I don't want to completely obliterate her mailbox. I might later release the emails themselves with personal data blacked out.
There is some good news though. Today I am proud to announce the "The Month That Could Have Been" feature. Hopefully by now you have seen Faustwolf's amazing trailers for the game. These trailers were able to be made because FW recorded his play through. Over the last couple weeks we have worked with him to add some director commentary to these videos and will be releasing them throughout the month of June as they are completed. I want to make one thing very clear: These videos were created during beta testing of the game, this is not the final product, and all copies of Crimson Echoes have been destroyed.
I encourage everyone to spread these videos to the far reaches of the internet. This is the final remnants of several years of work by several people across the globe (literally). We hope these videos will accomplish a few goals:
a) show that we actually did have an almost complete game
b) Hopefully people will say we aren't faking this (why would we fake a C&D if we had an almost complete game)
c) Let people know the plot that we have developed
In other news, we have banned two IP addresses associated with longtime Compendium member Dark Serge, who was in perfectly good standing until he made an alt account called "Alienat0r" over at Kagero Studios and proceeded to claim himself perpetrator of a denunciation email laced with false information about Crimson Echoes. Special thanks goes to new Compendium member kattrali for spearheading the investigation of Alienat0r and gathering the evidence that ultimately led us to uncover him.
We continue to hold that the denunciation email purportedly sent to Square Enix constituted a ridiculous attention grab and that even if it was real, it had little bearing on Square Enix's ultimate decision to C&D Compendium fan projects. However, we understand that fan project teams operating in other communities may wish to be on the lookout for this character. For that reason we are providing a list of his various aliases. However, bear in mind that he may use different aliases in the future now that these have been discovered and outed:
Robbert Bruggeman
justrob
Bridgeman
CyrilCyberpunk
Alienat0r
Hellspawns
Dark Serge
The fact that Mr. Bruggeman incompletely blanked out his name in the denunciation email shown at Kagero does nothing to dissolve our suspicions that this was a hoax and that he was, in fact, interested in being caught for the attention that would likely ensue.
As usual I will spend the next couple days trying to answer any questions that anyone may have across the internet.
--JP
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http://digg.com/nintendo/Remember_The_C_D_CT_Game_They_are_releasing_it_on_YouTube
http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/8nrly/remember_that_cdd_ct_game_well_they_are_going_to/
--JP
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So, this is it then.
Well, it'll be nice to watch the videos... nice and extremely sad :( :( :(
I guess in the future, whoever wants to do a Chrono Trigger mod better be willing to do one of two things: Either go completely underground and work for several years with no encouragement or input from anyone outside of the project, or be willing to throw your life away and go up against Square Enix or whoever wants to sue.
Thanks for putting the mod together, and thanks for trying to get it out there somehow.
I won't keep cursing Square Enix here, but I'll curse them everywhere else until the day I die.
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Lol, Damn. I tried to piss Dark Serge off before he was banned... but dammit.
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At least we will have these videos. Although it's not the same as having the game, it's still something.
So, it was Dark Serge the culprit.
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I just want to remind everyone that, regardless of Dark Serge's actions, it was SE who made the decision to C&D us. I would hope that nobody forgets that SE are the ones responsible for where we are now.
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Just gotta shake it off. I'm still gonna follow thru with my project, and he can't stop meh.
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I just want to remind everyone that, regardless of Dark Serge's actions, it was SE who made the decision to C&D us. I would hope that nobody forgets that SE are the ones responsible for where we are now.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but Josh, you're right.
Dark Serge is still a fukass
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At least we will have these videos. Although it's not the same as having the game, it's still something.
You can watch the first one for now (link in first post).
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Anyone who has a higher standing reputation at other sites please feel free to submit the story there (I did reddit and digg).
--JP
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Wow... and I thought I could trust him.
I want to know a few things, and I'd post them in the reddit and digg things, but digg hates me and I forgot my reddit pass... which sucks.
1. What are the chances that SE will ever release a statement about this? And what're the odds that they have a Chrono game in development?
2. Why did Dark Serge do what he did?
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1. What are the chances that SE will ever release a statement about this? And what're the odds that they have a Chrono game in development?
2. Why did Dark Serge do what he did?
I suspect the answers are "slim to none" to both parts of #1, and "because he's an asshole" to #2.
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Well said JP. Such a huge disappointment that we couldn't get an official statement, and SE is doing itself a disservice by letting skeptics believe that the Compendium just totally made this up. Everyone else who has a Final Fantasy, Secret of Mana, or other project based on SE's intellectual property will push forward with full steam. Best of luck to them.
As for #2 teaflower, I suspect it was just an attention grab. Given how he sort of stepped into the aftermath of the C&D here at the Compendium, I wonder if he wasn't entertaining aspirations of "replacing" Crimson Echoes or else looking for more prey if the email was real. In any case, he would often exhibit different language styles (you can see this even in Alienat0r's own posts over at Kagero), so he may actually be a conglomeration of different individuals. However, speculation does us no good at this point. I'm just glad kattrali led us to him, or who knows what would have happened.
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Dark Serge was always a little antagonistically bent from my POV, but that might've just been because we personally butted heads on several issues...Maybe the word "Dark" in an SN is cursed on these forums~! And pizza. :lol:
I hope people take with them the fact that such large fan projects should probably be as secretive as possible and involve only the tight ring of the development group...and maybe just have completely open beta testing? idk...that's for some other website (or chain of websites) to deal with now...
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First, wow, Dark Serge, or whatever your name is, fuck you.
Second, I've heard rumors that Final Fantasy IV: The After Years was a ROM project that SE had also given the C&D to. Is there any truth to that?
And third, even if that rumor is not true, does SE have a copy of CE?
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Well I'm glad at least that the suspense is over and I can see some footage.
...why do i still feel so sad?
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Second, I've heard rumors that Final Fantasy IV: The After Years was a ROM project that SE had also given the C&D to. Is there any truth to that?
FFIV: The After Years is a real game, it's the official sequel to FFIV. Unless you mean there was some sort of attempt to turn it into a playable rom?
And third, even if that rumor is not true, does SE have a copy of CE?
SE probably doesn't have CE and I doubt they'd even bother with it, especially considering it's a rom patch.
Also, thanks to Matt of Kagero forums for giving us a huge helping hand and evidence in determining Alienat0r's identity.
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So... the dream is gone.
"The end is nigh."
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Second, I've heard rumors that Final Fantasy IV: The After Years was a ROM project that SE had also given the C&D to. Is there any truth to that?
FFIV: The After Years is a real game, it's the official sequel to FFIV. Unless you mean there was some sort of attempt to turn it into a playable rom?
And third, even if that rumor is not true, does SE have a copy of CE?
SE probably doesn't have CE and I doubt they'd even bother with it, especially considering it's a rom patch.
Also, thanks to Matt of Kagero forums for giving us a huge helping hand and evidence in determining Alienat0r's identity.
Thanks, that makes me feel better at least.
Later guys.
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Second, I've heard rumors that Final Fantasy IV: The After Years was a ROM project that SE had also given the C&D to. Is there any truth to that?
From the Wikipedia page on it:
"Final Fantasy IV: The After Years, released in Japan as Final Fantasy IV the After: Tsuki no Kikan (ファイナルファンタジーIV ジ・アフター -月の帰還-, Fainaru Fantajī Fō Ji Afutā -Tsuki no Kikan-?, lit. "Final Fantasy IV the After: Return of the Moon") is a Japanese role-playing game developed by Matrix Software and published by Square Enix, and is the sequel to Final Fantasy IV. The first two chapters of the game were released in Japan in February 2008 for NTT DoCoMo FOMA 903i series phones, with a release for au WIN BREW compatible phones in May 2008 and Yahoo! Keitai compatible phones in November 2008.[3] The mobile phone release was distributed in monthly installments, the first of which was free to download, while the following chapters available via subscription.[4] An English-language release was announced as a WiiWare title on March 25, 2009.[5]. It will be released in North America on June 1, 2009.[6]"
It doesn't take but a moment to try to find out these things on your own...
So no, SE doesn't have a history of turning fan projects into anything but useless data in your recycle bin.
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Oh well. Le sigh. Let's wait for the next
Square Enix shovelware game :(
Let's just hope Bob's Game is not vaporware now or get C&D'ed by Nintendo.
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So it was Dark Serge....I know no one will trust me, but he was the first person I found suspisious, but I thought I was being paranoid so I let my suspsion move on.
I can't believe I was tricked so easily....still I won't lose my new upbeat attituide.
Also even though I find them rude for doing so , I won't hate the people at SE since I know whatever they did it wasn't a personal thing. As for DarkSerge I will forever hold him in contempt for tricking me into trusting him. In good news for the other I will no longer complain abotu them not being polite because SE was rude. Please feel free to rant obsessivly about how evil you think they are even if I disagree.
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Wow... I wonder what could of been said in that conversation that would make whoever you were talking to promise a "Response" to this whole fiasco. Eh, eye for an eye I say, they refuse to keep their end of the bargain, post the conversation or whatever. If they whine about it and try anything, you have proof of them breaking said agreement if you have the Emails still.
(and yes yes I know, my first post is on this subject, yall probably suspicious of new people, don't burn me, I don't burn well! I've just been lurking unregistered ever since I read on Joystiq about the C&D letter, and have posted about it here and there on a couple of sites.)
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Just noting that a second videos has been added to the YouTube account and linked from the first post of this thread. This is a teaser of sorts, but the next videos released (throughout the month of June) will be FW's full playthrough, from the start of the game up to the ending(s) in a linear fashion and with minimal video editing.
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I don't mean to spam here, but these are for the depressed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Md2i6MWD4I&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Md2i6MWD4I&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_xy0BcI_nY&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_xy0BcI_nY&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM-r-ltInS4&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM-r-ltInS4&feature=related)
Please have a good laugh. It's the only way I know how to cheer people up over the internet, so please don't get mad.
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Just noting that a second videos has been added to the YouTube account and linked from the first post of this thread. This is a teaser of sorts, but the next videos released (throughout the month of June) will be FW's full playthrough, from the start of the game up to the ending(s) in a linear fashion and with minimal video editing.
Youtube is acting wierd for me. *sigh I wanted so to watch the playthough when it's put up. ^.- don't spoil anything for me ya hear!
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Just noting that a second videos has been added to the YouTube account and linked from the first post of this thread. This is a teaser of sorts, but the next videos released (throughout the month of June) will be FW's full playthrough, from the start of the game up to the ending(s) in a linear fashion and with minimal video editing.
Its gonna be from beginning to end? Well, if you can't experience the gameplay, experience the story at least huh? :D
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Just noting that a second videos has been added to the YouTube account and linked from the first post of this thread. This is a teaser of sorts, but the next videos released (throughout the month of June) will be FW's full playthrough, from the start of the game up to the ending(s) in a linear fashion and with minimal video editing.
Youtube is acting wierd for me. *sigh I wanted so to watch the playthough when it's put up. ^.- don't spoil anything for me ya hear!
And it can't get back to normal by the month's end? They will not be uploaded until June.
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Just noting that a second videos has been added to the YouTube account and linked from the first post of this thread. This is a teaser of sorts, but the next videos released (throughout the month of June) will be FW's full playthrough, from the start of the game up to the ending(s) in a linear fashion and with minimal video editing.
Youtube is acting wierd for me. *sigh I wanted so to watch the playthough when it's put up. ^.- don't spoil anything for me ya hear!
And it can't get back to normal by the month's end? They will not be uploaded until June.
Oh so its not just me. I feel better now! ^.^
Well I'm glad at least that the suspense is over and I can see some footage.
...why do i still feel so sad?
I know....its because its bittersweet, but you'll smile someday and laugh.
Untill then Let's sing something bittersweet or even sad. It will help let out that sad feeling. *Starts singing "You Are My Sunshine"*
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Just noting that a second videos has been added to the YouTube account and linked from the first post of this thread. This is a teaser of sorts, but the next videos released (throughout the month of June) will be FW's full playthrough, from the start of the game up to the ending(s) in a linear fashion and with minimal video editing.
Youtube is acting wierd for me. *sigh I wanted so to watch the playthough when it's put up. ^.- don't spoil anything for me ya hear!
And it can't get back to normal by the month's end? They will not be uploaded until June.
Oh so its not just me. I feel better now! ^.^
It works fine with me. I asked because I thought you were worrying that you will not be able to watch the videos as soon as they were uploaded.
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It works fine with me. I asked because I thought you were worrying that you will not be able to watch the videos as soon as they were uploaded.
*crying* kicking mikey well he's down....meanie... (Kidding)
Anyway I'm hopeing youtube starts working right for me. I wonder why its just me.
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To ease the tension, watch the videos? That only makes it worse! It makes me want to rage even more. RAAAAAAAAGE!!! :lee:
>_> Nonetheless, what exactly did Dark Serge do? Was he spreading false info about Crimson Echoes or something? I read the first post but I feel like I'm missing something.
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*crying* kicking mikey well he's down....meanie... (Kidding)
And ironically, your avatar showed a sad face when I entered the thread.
>_> Nonetheless, what exactly did Dark Serge do? Was he spreading false info about Crimson Echoes or something? I read the first post but I feel like I'm missing something.
What I know is, that under the name of Alienat0r in another website, he posted an e-mail in which it was telling SE of CE, but lying by stating that the team were going to distribute Roms or something, can't remember. Whatever it was though, it was definitely something illegal.
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To ease the tension, watch the videos? That only makes it worse! It makes me want to rage even more. RAAAAAAAAGE!!! :lee:
>_> Nonetheless, what exactly did Dark Serge do? Was he spreading false info about Crimson Echoes or something? I read the first post but I feel like I'm missing something.
He claimed to have sent an e-mail to Square Enix telling them about Crimson Echoes and asserting that the dev team was claiming copyrights to the game and intended to commercialize it (i.e., sell it for money). He also seemed to have a big grudge against Crimson Echoes, Chrono Crisis, and other fan projects.
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Excuse me everyone, good evening.
My name is Brett Wooley, I am the host of a live radio program in North East Louisiana called Meteor Radio.
I wanted to dedicate my next show to the fallacy of console RPG's where games like Final Fantasy were called RPG's because of turn-based combat, EXP, and other elements; when in truth they are nothing more than Adventure games.
I wanted to use Chrono Trigger as an example of a JRPG that did the genre justice at the time, so I wanted to have an interview with a staff member or a "CT Scholar" if you will.
I have been a tremendous fan of this site, and the projects your teams worked on, but didn't think to join the community.
Merely 15 minutes ago, I visited this site for the first time in a few months. And I read about the C&D.
My friends, the rage I began to feel as I watched the videos, to see that this masterpiece of fan appreciation has been destroyed by the machine is incomprehensible. But I am not here to take up arms, I am here to offer my assistance.
If there is one thing I know, it's that the gaming community has a heart and soul. Our love for gaming and how we express it are the lungs of this entity.
I want an interview from someone involved with the project to speak about this. I don't care about how it needs to be approached. Whether it's to summon support, or to mourn the loss of a great project, I want the people to know about this.
Is there someone that can help me with this? Please let me know as soon as you can. Thank you for your time. And thank you for the dedication the team put into that project.
Sincerely yours,
Brett Wooley (Axtuse)
www.meteorradio.com
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*sigh*
SE, cmon man, cmon...
backing down from a public statement that you (supposedly) said you'd make?
I don't know if its some "we need more time" or a "we gonna be assholes" situation, so I'm just not going to assume either way.
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Ah, that clears it up. Thanks guys.
Also, Axtuse, where in Louisiana do you live? I live in Prairieville.
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As soon as the C&D was announced, everbody should have known that CE was gonna be cancelled for good. Whining about it now isn't gonna change SE's mind. But I guess it can't be helped.
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hoo-boy.... Well, that sucks. But, life goes on. Why do you suppose Square is so defensive of the Chrono series? I mean, I have not heard of square shutting down any other fan games, and you know there have been a lot of them. So why Chrono Trigger? Why Ressurestion? Why Crimson Echoes? Honestly, there has to be a reason. You'd think they'd get the picture that with all these hacks, and re-creations, that CT and CC are more than just a game. Yeah they have their Final Fantasy, but there are people showing hacks of FF6 on youtube, there are also people making walkthroughs of how to hack it, yet they do nothing. Chrono Trigger though...
So why? Are they just being Douche bags? Do they not realise that the Chrono series has the size of following that it does? Do they have something planned? There are so many questions that are racing through my mind writing this post. Not to mention "Yesterday" from the beatles making me depressed. You gotta think that there is a reason for this. Also, why would they make a promise like that? The open response thing. Furthermore, why wouldn't they keep it? Are they trying to Kill the Chrono series? Has it gotten too big for them? Do they wish to kill Final Fantasy, more than give the people what they want?
They don't care about the original staff working on the game clearly. I mean look at Cross. I loved Cross, but they made it without 75% of the "Dream Team". Did they just throw Cross out there to the world, as a cash cow? Did they PLAN to try and kill of the Chrono Series with Cross? I mean, they changed everything! Trigger was such a huge success, and they changed absolutely EVERYTHING!!! They didn't even keep the same characters, and they made a BS way to put Lavos in the game. Like I said, I loved Cross, I'm not hating on it for the sake of hating it. But I can't shake the feeling that Square doesn't like that CT is as big as it is, and the more I think about it, the clearer it seems to become.
I keep thinking there MUST be a reason, but I dont know what that reason could be... Everyone keeps saying chances of them having a Chrono Sequel planned are slim to none. But can you really think that? Thinking that just makes you seem like you think the Chrono series is dead. If it were dead, would they have ever released CT:DS? Would they have C&Ded a fan game for a game they planned on killing? But if that's true, then what other reason could there be? I mean, They DO care about the fans if you think about it. Fans loved FFVII. They loved it. So they expanded on it! In the span of 10 or 12 years, they came out with 2 sequels and a movie. Sure they ruined the game for alot of people. But they gave us what we wanted. Kingdom Hearts!!! Everyone loved that game. Yeah people thinks it's a childrens game, maybe even meant for babies. But when you grab that controller, and you play, you get enthralled by the story. The fans loved that. They got a sequel. They loved that! They got more!! Square TRIES to please the fans. But they can only please so many.
Clearly Square cares SOMEWHAT about it's fans. I mean, can you seriously boycott a Company for doing something that is in their full right? Can you say you will never buy another SE game again, even when they have come out with gems like FFVII, Chrono Trigger, Kingdom Hearts, FF6, FFX, and probably many more that I haven't played. This is turning into a ramble, and my thoughts are pretty much all on the table. This is disappointing, but if you think about it, it could possibly be a ray of light. Other Snes games like FF6, 5, and so on all the way back to the original. THOSE are dead. That would explain why they don't care about Rom hacks for it. But CT and CC. These games have clearly shown life. CT was the start of one of the best series of all time, CC was a very fitting Sequel that cleared the bar CT had made. They still C&D all fan projects related to CT, and in my mind that shows only one thing...
THE DREAM OF ZEAL IS STILL ALIVE!!!
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Dude. Awesome. Getting it out there, other than through the internet, is brilliant.
Axtuse, I don't know how many of us are in Louisiana, but you should get into contact with Agent 12 and ZeaLitY, though the latter is off on a trip to Europe at the moment. I'd be happy to do an interview, but I'm not at the core of the project. I didn't really help at all.
Thanks for your interest!
As a side note, I can't wait for this to blow over. I want the forums to go back to the way they were before the C&D.
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Agent 12 lives in Louisiana as well? :shock:
That's the impression I got from your post.
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damn this sucks. :x
but at least we will get to see the game, ha I agree with what the person posted on the digg, bet SE hadent thought of that happening.
either way +100 phail points to Dark Serge if he really did send the email to SE, sure SE did not act on the email per say, but if the email had never been sent the CD might have been delayed enough for CE to be released for a short time, though then SE might have actually forced the fines >.<.
wtfh, there's always one prick that has to go and ruin something special for everyone else just because someone pissed in their coffee....
:picardno
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Monroe, LA. I like to call it The Rotting Tree, because the north-side is green and beautiful, while the south-side is worn and wasted.
I'm not here to be some sort of Divine Light, or Saving Grace, I'm here because I want people to know about this. I want them to know that we have been betrayed again by The Machine. The hardcore fans that would do anything to see more of their favorite games apparently have no voice. Even though my voice is small, I know there are greater voices out there. Voices that would speak out in support of this.
I just don't want this to be washed away, I want EVERYONE to remember this.
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Mikisho, I find ironic your opinion about Cross. If anything, Cross was made in order to make a better Radical Dreamers, who the creators themselves weren't that satisfied with it, a reason why it wasn't present in the PSX Trigger port, which was going to have it at one point.
Still, you're right. Cross was taken way more than the trip to Viper Manor. Serge and Schala's stories were changed, and Magus removed when they decided to go for 40+ playable characters. And then all of the added things, El Nido, Reptite Dimension, Time Devourer, etc.
And right again, SE must have something in mind if they are bothering in doing what they did.
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well im glad you guys decided to put it on youtube i guess its the next best thing to playing it thanks alot ^^
and if anyone finds DarkSerge BURN him alive but b4 that torture the hell out of him and make him wish he was dead
sort of happy yet still sad but fight on fight on
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What I know is, that under the name of Alienat0r in another website, he posted an e-mail in which it was telling SE of CE, but lying by stating that the team were going to distribute Roms or something, can't remember. Whatever it was though, it was definitely something illegal.
He still managed to professionally "trole" you all. When someone gets "trole"d they get in a stage called "deniol"
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:picardno its so sad
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Are you Guys saying This DarkSerge Character is responsible for telling/claiming to SE that the CE team intended to claim rights and make money off CE!!?..... IF so he has a fate worse then death in store for him for ruining CE.. HE Shall not be forgiven.
but no matter what we should continue to fight until SE apologizes for pissing on there fans. :(
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Oooh, wow! :shock: It looks really cool... So, Ayla's the optional one? (as opposed to Magus it CT?) As if she needed to be any more overpowered! It's weird...in the idea for a fangame I had a while back, she was the optional character also. That's a little odd!
Ah, if only... I'm not gonna be depressed on THIS topic, though--you guys did a great job and you should be very proud!
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No comment on the Dark Serge thing, other than "random". He made that thread...whatever. Don't care. He's gone.
But I do want to comment on those videos. Oh my god. So sweet. Just don't advertise too much, for the love of god. I want to see this story unfold before SE tries to kill the videos too. Hell, I'd love to just have the footage for multiple personal viewings. If what those videos show is not yet the majority of the iceberg but still "just the tip" then I just don't know what else to say. Wow. Thank you for doing it. The team for the creation and Faust for the obsessive capturing, THANK YOU.
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The videos JP linked to in the first post are sort of the very first atom on the tip of the iceberg. Be thankful I got a 500 gig external drive for my birthday this year, I didn't know what I'd do with it until I started using it to store CE playthrough video. Between the director commentary and souped up audio for particularly impressive segments of the game, maybe switching the controller for a bag of popcorn won't be so horrible after all. Should ease the sting of the latest setback at least.
I still don't believe the Alienat0r email was actually real, but we have little evidence to cite either way. It was quite elaborate for a hoax - the perpetrator had quite a bit of foresight to lay false info on other videogame forums under the name Hellspawns on April 9 - but on the other hand, it's gonna take a lot to convince me that Neil misspelled his name like that if it was a real email with a real reply being shown.
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I'm glad you guys started posting the play through videos, though it makes me a little sad watching them.
Are you Guys saying This DarkSerge Character is responsible for telling/claiming to SE that the CE team intended to claim rights and make money off CE!!?..... IF so he has a fate worse then death in store for him for ruining CE.. HE Shall not be forgiven.
Indeed, he will not be forgiven. And he calls himself a Chrono Fan? What a disgrace.
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I know that some people may have differing values than I, but..
...one of the problems in the middle ages was that everything resulted in the "Death Penalty".
...now-a-days, I really dont think that the possibility of having ruined a project calls for the same action.
*sigh*
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I know that some people may have differing values than I, but..
...one of the problems in the middle ages was that everything resulted in the "Death Penalty".
...now-a-days, I really dont think that the possibility of having ruined a project calls for the same action.
*sigh*
Death no, just suffering for it, if he was indeed responsible.
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I know that some people may have differing values than I, but..
...one of the problems in the middle ages was that everything resulted in the "Death Penalty".
...now-a-days, I really dont think that the possibility of having ruined a project calls for the same action.
*sigh*
Death no, just suffering for it, if he was indeed responsible.
I am generally a peaceful person, but if I met him and knew who he was, I'd probably...glare at him...
I'm just not cut out to be violent, I'm afraid. Maybe a few years ago, when I was young and angry, but not now...
It's not worth it in the long run. I would, however, be very rude verbally.
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Agent12, will you also be putting up downloads for the game play videos somewhere? Reason I ask is that youtube is highly copyright infringement ban hammered at the moment due to the crap that WMG pulled against Google recently.
they might rally behind SE, if SE were so cockish to do so (highly possible given the state of things currently), and remove the videos.
Also to those seeking to play the CE demo/prophets guile or the other patches that were shutdown here. do a google search and you should find a web site that still has these up, dont know how complete the other stuff is, but they have the CE Demo 2.0 on their site.
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It really saddens me how everyone's saying, "let's just give up," and "let's just move on."
That's it huh? Big ol' SE throws their weight and acts like jerks and you guys just take it?
5 years of your life just for some videos are director's commentary?
I hope someday that this game gets released somehow.
If some unknown beta tester found an anonymous way to release the game so that SE dicks couldn't track him (perhaps drive out of state a few places where he lives and do it from a public library, etc.) then SE couldn't do shit, the internet could get their hands on the game and could finish it up.
You're just trying to console yourselves right now. Don't give up the ship- keep fighting. Just because SE is bullying you you don't have to submit.
Everybody else, this is a terrible idea to encourage them to simply quit. Creators, don't tell me that after 5 years you can just stick a couple of videos up on youtube with commentary and then leave everything behind satisfied. SE's actions against the fan modding community are disgusting and reprehensible- it calls for the fans standing up, not just bowing down and accepting SE's abuses.
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I just opened a fortune cookie. It says "He that can't endure the bad will not live to see the good."
Then on the back it says LEARN CHINESE - FISH
(some chinese symbol - YU
And it was so close to being relevant. But at least it's half inspiring.
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Glenn. What are you implying we do? Say fuck it, and release CE anyway? (Sorry for my language). That would only causepeople to get sued, guaranteed fines, possibly jail time. But I guess as long as you get CE that doesn't matter does it? You have to look athe BIG picture dude. Not only would that just affect the creators, the compendium as a whole would be shut down. this whole community would be no more, and we'd have to settle for stuff like Gamefaqs. Agent and crew are doing everything they can to try and soften this blow for us. We aren't lying down and dying, we've been killed. Them denying the release of public info on the C&D of CE to the world has killed it.
Jesus, I am a mean person when I post online =x... Also a little harsh.... As well as blunt.... Oh well, if its too blunt and crude I'm sure someone will take it down... Either that or Faust will try and calm me down within seconds >_>.... <_<.... *hides*
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Now I'm going to go to Chinese restaurants, pound my fork and knife on the table (after specially requesting them in lieu of chopsticks) and demand large quantities of yu. I love being a foreign linguist!
That's it huh? Big ol' SE throws their weight and acts like jerks and you guys just take it?
Honestly, it's not your decision. Make your own game and do what you will with it.
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they might rally behind SE, if SE were so cockish to do so (highly possible given the state of things currently), and remove the videos.
If SE did, there are legitimate grounds for a DMCA counternotice, which would get the videos reinstated.
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I can't speak on behalf of JP, but my educated guess is that he will make sure the Crimson Echoes videos remain available. Squeenix has far less standing to press a copyright infringement claim when it comes to non-interactive videos of gameplay, and it would be far less practical for them to pick such a battle. Plus, they've squandered all the goodwill they're likely to get from this community.
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"Honestly, it's not your decision. Make your own game and do what you will with it."
If it was my game then I would totally release it.
The creators have the rest of their lives to look forward to being cubicle slaves working for mindless bosses and being miserable. All they've accomplished is to ensure that the equivalent of that scenario happens immediately rather than in just a few years. Congratulations. If you guys want to throw off your shackles, then don't puss out.
There is a legitimate case and there are legitimate legal arguments (which have already make on the board) about releasing the mod and being allowed to. But everyone here is just terrified of some giant Japanese company's soulless legal department that they think the fans should just bow down and do whatever SE deigns. So the modding community will take a big hit because fans are too terrified to fight back. Yeah, it is their decision but it is the -wrong- decision no matter how many hits those little videos on youtube will get or how terrified they are of the suits working for SE.
"Oh, SE won't sue us for videos on Youtube, what a great victory! Makes these 5 years all worthwhile, we did all this work so a couple of fanboys could make comments on youtube videos and so we could dream out about how awesome it would have been to let you people enjoy our dream instead of giving up after some idiot douchebag rats us out and lies to the idiots at SE who don't even give a fuck they were lied to and refuse to budge from their position."
You guys are acting like a bunch of slaves who don't want to risk anything for freedom.
All you non-creators are like a bunch of Uncle Toms encouraging and praising the creators for their submission, where the hell are all the Harriet Tubmans and Nat Turners here?
Some things never change and it seems like the slave mentality is still utterly dominant among far too many people.
Fight the power, don't just accept being it's slave.
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We're not slaves, we're zombies. Dummy, get your diction right :lol:
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I'm looking forward to the videos I'm sure they will be awesome thanks.
some questions
Aren't you worried about more legal threats/copy write claims on youtube?( though I personally think square would never sue over videos they might bluff a threat) I think a trailer and a whole month for this is the worst idea ever and everything should be uploaded to many places at once when they are all done.
Did you guys ever contact any of the lawyers or groups posted about in the threads? It'd be interesting what they would have had to say about this for future projects other people might get attacked for.
that would only causepeople to get sued, guaranteed fines, possibly jail time.
I don't get why people are so sure an anonymous leaked beta from a tester would result in the team getting hit. Wouldn't "we did everything we could to comply with SE and delete it but one of the testers leaked it against our best efforts and orders we aren't responsible" be a good defence how could the judge hold them responsible for anything what did they do and why would SE even try wasn't their case already iffy? Did anybody ask a lawyer about this?
Also when I was looking up the laws I'm pretty sure jail time is impossible because criminal charges only apply to profiting pirates but I could be wrong.
But obviously none of that matters now I'm happy with whatever the CE team does :)
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Everybody here suggesting ways it could've been leaked "anonymously" killed all the plausible deniability these guys had if one of the beta testers actually did leak it without JP's consent.
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Glenn, are you trolling? All that slavery stuff makes it seem like a troll. You really, honestly think that the people who worked on this game should risk thousands of their own dollars to release this game just so people like you and I can play it for free? That's nuts, man. If Square pursued legal action, they would not have to win the ensuing court case, simply taking the team to court would cost them plenty of money by itself.
Perhaps you feel a sense of entitlement over all this, since you got excited over the game, but the actions taken by the CE teams are the most realistic ones. There is no fight possible here unless the team chooses to sacrifice real money and possibly more in a horrible economy over something that will make them no money at all.
Anyways. The main lesson here is that all rom hacks and translations need to stay underground until the very SECOND of release. You could make a small beta testing announcement, but no videos, no screenshots, nothing. It's the only way to be safe. This lesson was learned before this CE situation started back when Square showed they would aggressively protect the Chrono Trigger trademark by shutting down that 3D remake, and then not releasing CT:DS until years later. This has nothing to do with any possibility that Square will release another Chrono title - they probably never will. Square-Enix has just shown twice now that they will go out of their way to crush anyone who uses their property, regardless of if it's being sold or not. However, a rom hack that was worked on silently and then released (if you wanted to be really safe, an option would be releasing onto a torrent site... but then you probably couldn't credit the authors out of fear of backlash) could not be stopped. It's tragic that it has to come to this, seeing projects like this one get shut down for no reason at all. And of course there was no precedent, ever (as far as I know) for romhacks/translations of any kind being shut down...
Actually, one of the weirdest things about all that is how they never shut down (to my knowledge) fan translations of their other games. Way back in the 90s that was how I played Final Fantasy 5 for the first time, through RPGe's ancient english translation patch... Square didn't do crap then. Heck, the comedy website Something Awful posted a full-conversion (a less-than-stellar one, admittedly) romhack of Final Fantasy 3 to their frontpage, and nothing was done about it... it's just so weird they care so much about Chrono Trigger and do nothing about their other proprerties.
Hopefully I didn't say anything that'll get me banned, but that slavery comparison annoyed me enough to register and post this... though it was probably just a troll, right? RIGHT? Good luck to everyone who was involved with the project in future endeavors.
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Currently, CE team = http://pigeonhole.ytmnd.com/
Somebody tell me if the CE team ever gets their balls back.
CE team, if you guys seriously spend the rest of your lives doing nothing about this and go off happily diving into your graves as 90-year old farts who refuse to release their game because of false threats and hype from LAWYERS (gee, like those guys never lie, threaten, and make false implications to frighten people into complicity! Nope, lawyers are so well-known for their honesty and high integrity!) from a Japanese company, then I've lost all my respect for you.
That's it? You're going to let that douchebag lying to SE take all your hard work from you? And everybody else here is just going to clap and applaud them while this happens? What's wrong with you people?
I bet that guy's laughing his ass off and throwing up the middle finger as he reads these posts about you guys surrendering and everybody else praising them for their French maneuvering. Way to give him exactly what he wanted. I'm sure he'll go off and keep doing the exact same thing to as many other groups as he can and he'll keep laughing about it while other modders surrender their dreams and their fanboys line up behind them to praise them for their bad decisions. If I was him (which I'm not) then I'd be having the time of my life right now, the horrible reactions to this so far at exactly what he wants you guys are just giving them to him.
I can't respect someone that scared that won't even stand up and fight for themselves against bullies, particularly for a dream of theirs they worked so hard on just to immediately abandon it at the slightest hint of any remote danger. It's like Scooby Doo running away screaming when he sees some lame bad guy in a ghost costume. You guys worked this hard and SE's douchebaggery is the lame bad guy in a ghost costume. So far your only response is, "ZOINKS!" and everybody else here is making like Shaggy and following Scooby in hot pursuit.
I hope someday you'll realized the mistake you've made- not just so people can play your game (that's not even the most important part of this) but mostly for yourselves and your own sake and so you won't have to live with regrets and fear and lying to yourselves and trying to convince yourselves otherwise for the next few years.
And plausible deniability? It still exists. Doesn't matter what we say or do here, the burden is on SE to prove stuff.
As long as SE can't trace shit, then they can't do shit, and if anybody's got half a brain then they can think of more than several ways to release this nice and underground-style.
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The problem is that you don't have to prove shit to take someone to court, and even if Square didn't have a leg to stand on (which I don't think they do), the CE team would have to devote time and money to this that they don't have. Square has more than enough money to pay any court costs that arise from any sort of frivolous lawsuit rulings that arise. They've made it clear that even if it's absolutely 100% sure that a rogue beta tester leaked the beta without permission, they'll still sue.
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So what are you suggesting, Glenn? That they release it anyways (or have one of the testers leak it), despite Square being ready and able to sue the creators? That's not bravery, that's idiocy. And even if it WAS bravery, what the hell is the point? To prove something? To who? Square-Enix doesn't give a crap about what's being said on this message board, and they almost certainly wouldn't suddenly change their minds if the CE team dared to stand up to them.. originally there was more to this post by RySenkari pretty well covered it. Again, I just have to wonder what you think should happen here, and WHY it is worth risking it. I sure hope it's not just some concept like standing up to the man.
(EDIT) Ah, y'know what, forget it. It's 1 AM, I shouldn't have even registered for these forums! I just get riled up over stuff that outrageous. Whatever. As I said before, good luck to the CE team, if you do dare to try something like this again, make sure to keep it secret until it's too late to do something about it. In the opinion of this random internet person, you did what you could.
(EDIT2) Before I leave for the night, I'll note that Glenn is right in a few ways, and that's that there is a possibility the gaming community could somehow rise up and cover the court costs. It would take an unprecedented miracle, but it could happen, I suppose. Square-Enix seems to be the oddball of the companies I know of that have some kind of stated policy on romhacks. I know Capcom for sure allows hacks of its old games as long as they aren't for profit, and the other companies don't seem to do anything about it. I've only ever seen Square Enix (and Vivendi, as was mentioned in a thread on this topic) aggressively move against people for this kind of thing.
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Oh well! If SE can't prove shit then they can't do shit. If there's no evidence that the creators or any particular individual released it then they can legally go fuck off unless they can prove otherwise to a court. As long as whoever releases it (assuming someone hopefully does) is smart enough to hide signs connecting them to the original makers, etc., SE, again, can't do shit.
And if they do sue for any reason, the game community will be all over the news. There'll be plenty of people wanting to help out and support the creators.
Some of you people are so fucking paranoid that you act like you're all afraid that SE will hire ninjas to silently assassinate all the creators, all the beta testers and all their friends and family instantly in a single night or worse, travel back in time to ensure that these people never existed to begin with by killing off all of their grandparents.
It's not as big a fucking deal as the more paranoid among you are making it out to be, SE's just a soulless corporation it's not God. It's not that hard to release something in a nice, good anonymous fashion.
"So what are you suggesting, Glenn? That they release it anyways (or have one of the testers leak it), despite Square being ready and able to sue the creators? That's not bravery, that's idiocy. "
You can't do anything with a lawsuit without a case.
Asshole lawyer- "Since this fan for releasing a free mod of one of our games made over ten years ago!"
Creators lawyer- "There is no evidence they actually released it themselves, it's unknown who did."
Judge- "Is this true?"
Asshole lawyer- "Ummmm....."
Judge- "Gtfo."
Creators- "YES!"
Asshole lawyer- "At least SE will still pay us for this."
If SE can't prove shit then they got no case. The burden is on THEM to prove ANYTHING.
"And even if it WAS bravery, what the hell is the point? To prove something? To who? Square-Enix doesn't give a crap about what's being said on this message board, and they almost certainly wouldn't suddenly change their minds if the CE team dared to stand up to them.. originally there was more to this post by RySenkari pretty well covered it. Again, I just have to wonder what you think should happen here, and WHY it is worth risking it. I sure hope it's not just some concept like standing up to the man."
It doesn't matter what SE thinks, fuck those guys. The point is not to just surrender FIVE YEARS OF THEIR FUCKING LIVES because of some soulless corporation. And yeah, it is worth risking it, not just for themselves but also for the modding community and the rights of fan mods.
This game isn't going to take a penny from SE but it doesn't matter to them. They threw down a gauntlet, based on false pretenses from an e-mail, but they don't care- they're too arrogant to back off or admit they're wrong. We don't matter to them- the creators don't matter either. Their five years of hard work, dedication and fandom and feelings are meaningless to SE.
And they'll be completely meaningless if all they do is surrender their feelings.
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To be totally honest, there's a greedy selfish part of me that really does want them to release it and see what happens (hell, I replied to one of their Youtube videos begging them to fight it, but I was pretty much venting). I just don't want to see anyone get sued. I'm not pissed at them over it, I can absolutely see where they're coming from... and the fact that SE went back on their own deal just makes me more pissed at SE.
They didn't want the CE team to report on a series of three word conversations? Seriously? Why are they even attempting damage control, they know what they've done and they don't care.
Maybe someone still has it. Maybe five years later we'll see the patch pop up through the torrents. By then there's no way Square would sue anyone but the people distributing the torrents. It'll be a nice thing to look forward to, I suppose.
Oh well! If SE can't prove shit then they can't do shit. If there's no evidence that the creators or any particular individual released it then they can legally go fuck off unless they can prove otherwise to a court. As long as whoever releases it (assuming someone hopefully does) is smart enough to hide signs connecting them to the original makers, etc., SE, again, can't do shit.
And if they do sue for any reason, the game community will be all over the news. There'll be plenty of people wanting to help out and support the creators.
They can file a lawsuit. If you get sued, you HAVE to show up in court to defend yourself. If you don't, even if you're absolutely innocent, you still get ruled against. And even with the support of the entire gaming community, we couldn't do anything to, for example, keep JP from having to disrupt his life and show up in court. I mean, maybe if one of these guys was in law school, I might suggest they do it and then use the experience for extra credit for one of their classes, but even then, there's always the tiny risk of losing and having your credit rating for the next decade totally ruined. It might be worth it to some people, but the CE team doesn't consist of anyone to whom that statement applies.
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Glenn, chill out dude. At least everyone will still get to see it even if they can't play it. As long as SE doesn't send another C&D against the Youtube playthrough (no reason to, because there's already a ton of Chrono Trigger playthroughs on Youtube), this is not a complete defeat and the CE team retains its dignity by showing off its work for all the world to see.
With regard to the great fight for fan and consumer rights, this is a battle which must be won through precedent and not in court. Did a single fan fiction author go to court to win their right to reinterpret and further develop intellectual properties? Apparently not, given the Anne Rice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_rice#Fan_fiction) example. But Anne Rices are relatively few and far between; there's just so much fan fiction out there and so many authors have come to accept it (some even beautifully acknowledge and embrace it) (http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:uP4Wb9m4A-gJ:www.annemccaffrey.org/%3Fpage_id%3D20+%2B%22anne+mcaffrey%22+%2B%22fan+fiction%22+%2B%22guidelines%22&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us) that Anne Rice seems to be in poor form, and not many other authors are willing to squash their fans like she is. Same goes for fanart. Holders of intellectual property have to realize that fan projects are part of the culture that ultimately develops around a product that captures people's imaginations.
Unfortunately modding and other forms of fangaming are still a young area of fan activity in comparison to fan fiction, fan art, and fan film. I mean, this whole movement literally started in the late 90s and early 00s. We're on the cusp of a new cultural wave. We all thought SE was building up a tolerance for fangames with the release of various RPGMaker titles, fan translations/retranslations, and medium-scale mods like Prophet's Guile. Crimson Echoes, as one of the few full modifications/conversions to reach fruition, emerged onto a lightly treaded path, and SE, not being used to the existence of such things, decided to kick it down. But CE will not be the last such project attempted, in all probability. All this has just been one battle in the gradual campaign for acceptance of fan activity.
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The issue, Glenn, is that SE explicitly told them to destroy ALL copies, and inform those who had it to do the same. If a Beta tester leaked it, they wouldn't get in trouble, it be these guys. And you cannot say "I'd do it anyways" if it was you having 150k lawsuit staring down at you. Its easy to talk smack when the ball ain't in your hands, but if you're the one with it, and the defense is all around you, well then what?
SE has the edge in every way. Financially, the court costs would be covered by the sale of their worst-selling game alone. Time? They got a whole section just for this, so oodles and ooooodles of it. And, the creators did say if asked, they'd stop work on the game.
Plain and simple Glenn, you are all talk. You wouldn't do it. You can talk all you want, but until you have the beast staring down at you, with flames licking around your boots, and jaws ready to snap shut around you, it means zip, zero, nada, nothing.
I want to play the game as badly as everyone else does, do I wish these guys would go "F*** the system!"? Oh yeah, but I'm not so blinded with stupidity to not understand that these people did this out of love of the series, and its killing them too I bet, they've tried to talk with people at SE, but we see how well its working. Whether or not the lawsuit is a bluff is irrelevant, you can't honestly expect these people to risk such a thing. If they were rich, it might not matter, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
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"To be totally honest, there's a greedy selfish part of me that really does want them to release it and see what happens"
Ooh man, it's the same way for me. I know it won't happen (them releasing it), but it makes me angry when I watch the videos to see how great this game would've been, and knowing that it will never be playable is very frustrating.
I've thought of something before (again, I know this won't happen, because I'm probably leaving out something really obvious, knowing me), and that is to release the game as is (98% complete would be good enough for me at this point, and I think I speak for everyone here when I say that) on the Compendium, and after a few people have gotten it, quickly delete the topic before Square sees it (somehow) and then pretend the topic never happened. I already know some issues this would cause though, and as I said, I'm probably leaving out something obvious and important, but man, that would make my day. One thing I can think of already is that the hack no longer exists anyway, so all of this is irrelevant.
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Eh, FaustWolf, the fact that Anne McCaffrey has explicit guidelines for writing fan fiction proves that she does NOT beautifully acknowledge it and certainly does not embrace it. To me, beautifully acknowledging and embracing fan fiction would mean tolerating everything, even the filthy hentai porno fics written about your characters.
Anne Rice is an absolute bitch, by the way.
and after a few people have gotten it, quickly delete the topic before Square sees it and then pretend the topic never happened. I already know some issues this would cause though, and as I said, I'm probably leaving out something obvious and important, but man, that would make my day.
The fact that it got out would prove that it DID happen, though. If it started showing up on torrents, Square would sue. They made their stand clear, and the CE staff did a thorough and diligent job getting all the beta testers to delete their copies (though again, we can never be entirely sure that someone doesn't have it tucked away somewhere, I doubt they'd ever leak it for fear of putting themselves or one of their friends in the firing line).
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"The issue, Glenn, is that SE explicitly told them to destroy ALL copies, and inform those who had it to do the same. If a Beta tester leaked it, they wouldn't get in trouble, it be these guys. And you cannot say "I'd do it anyways" if it was you having 150k lawsuit staring down at you. Its easy to talk smack when the ball ain't in your hands, but if you're the one with it, and the defense is all around you, well then what?
SE has the edge in every way. Financially, the court costs would be covered by the sale of their worst-selling game alone. Time? They got a whole section just for this, so oodles and ooooodles of it. And, the creators did say if asked, they'd stop work on the game.
Plain and simple Glenn, you are all talk. You wouldn't do it. You can talk all you want, but until you have the beast staring down at you, with flames licking around your boots, and jaws ready to snap shut around you, it means zip, zero, nada, nothing."
I would do it- I would still find a way.
Again, SE is just threatening as much as possible to scare people into submission- it doesn't mean that they can legally steal 150 g's from the creators and lock them up for 5 years if a beta tester anonymously released the game somehow. Sure, SE's lawyers CLAIM that, but lawyers lie and speak weasel-talk a lot.
Why? Well, look at the fear and paranoia running rampant here. Obviously, such tactics are quite effective. They can't say something like, "we will kill you with our ninja army and their pet tigers if you don't submit", cause they know people would accept that as bullshit. Their high-priced, fancy lawyers doing legalese weasel talk to trick people into thinking they have more power and rights and authority then they actually possess is believable enough that a lot of you here are slurping up their bullshit milkshake and asking for seconds without even realizing what's really inside of it.
Also, opening a topic briefly with a torrent would be a terrible idea. There are more intelligent ways of releasing something anonymously.
And SE's NOT going to send a couple of people off to jail for years and give them 150 K fines automatically if it did automatically get released.
Sure, SE are douchebags, but there's a limit to how much negative press they'd be willing to generate in the gaming community. Tossing someone in jail or trying to for a free product would be very extreme- assuming they actually could which they probably can't. (see other legal arguments made on the board about this) Some of you are so frightened by SE's lawyer weasel-talk that you can't see the forest for the trees.
"Gasp, if a lawyer says something it must be true," isn't the way to look at what lawyers say.
"If a lawyer says something then it's what they want people to believe," is what people SHOULD think instead.
Look at all this infighting and talk of concentration camp-like suffering that will befall all the creators and beta testers automatically if there's a single release being made by people here.
SE may be assholes, and their lawyers are especially fucking assholes, but they are very clever to word stuff the way they have. The reactions here are exactly what they desire- creating civil war and fear and strife here and calls for submission.
People here are already calling on everybody to just bow down and submit while SE just rapes the dead corpse of this game and refuses to even acknowledge what it's doing. That's how terrified and gullible everybody is.
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Although I'll be forever disappointed with Square Penix for this it's great that we are seeing CE in video form. When the whole thing have been uploaded I'll put in on a dvd and watch it all the way through.
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"Besides, if (by any chance) I could release it, I would endanger the lifes of the CE team, which is the last thing I want."
How many times do I have to say this....
releasing it's NOT going to endanger anyone! If you automatically believe what the cuththroat lawyers for a soulless massive corporation say to crush people into submission and accept it as gospel truth....
then I have a nice law degree from Harvard I'd like to sell you- only $10,000! What a great deal, worth more than the cost of the degree, you all should jump on board!
Geez- does everyone here think that lawyers are all pure as fresh snow and they're never full of bullshit?
Can anyone get it through your skulls that maybe, maybe, laywers are sometimes full of it and maybe they simply say whatever is in their best interest to their goals to say? Terrifying anyone into thinking this game will automatically get the creators and beta testers sent to San Quentin is just PERFECT for the interests of SE!
Bravo to the asshole lawyers of SE, you guys are great at fooling the gullible! For your next act you should tell us that you're building a time machine and will automatically know exactly when and who plans on releasing something so that person shouldn't even bother because I'm sure 99% of everyone on this board would believe you!
Maybe not me, but nearly everyone else here would!
Btw everyone- I JUST WON THE LOTTERY A FEW MONTHS AGO! Got over 100 million and I now live in a mansion! HEY- it must be true because I said it's true and by golly, nobody ever says something that's false anywhere ever!
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glenn 27
Asshole lawyer- "Since this fan for releasing a free mod of one of our games made over ten years ago!"
Creators lawyer- "There is no evidence they actually released it themselves, it's unknown who did."
Judge- "Is this true?"
Asshole lawyer- "Ummmm....."
Judge- "Gtfo."
Creators- "YES!"
Asshole lawyer- "At least SE will still pay us for this."
court battles aren't that short in fact they are very long and time consuming most of the CE staff probably doesn't have the time and probably definitely not the resource's to go through with such a task and some times court battles can drag on for weeks even years consuming alot of hours and money and brain cells :lee:
but how ever even deleted things can be (insert word yourself) and (insertword)and a few years down the track you may find a copy who knows in a few years maybe when DS is dead lol
i respect what decision the CE team made because it wasn't easy to come to
tyvv much for doing a video play thru
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and after a few people have gotten it, quickly delete the topic before Square sees it and then pretend the topic never happened. I already know some issues this would cause though, and as I said, I'm probably leaving out something obvious and important, but man, that would make my day.
The fact that it got out would prove that it DID happen, though.
Although that method would not be a good idea, as the server logs could be subpoenaed, the best way I can conceive of for a leak to occur is if someone hacked into the computer of one of the beta testers, installed a file recovery tool, undeleted and grabbed the file, and released it on Freenet. The only person responsible is an anonymous hacker. However, I suspect a lawsuit could and would still be leveled at someone. Really, anyone who gets a cease and desist letter should only communicate via lawyer. Unfortunately, it sounds like everything is over except for the whining, which I think is a pity.
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It was Square's decision, yes, but it was DS' decision to contact Square and remind them that the hack existed. I can't help but think that none of this would have ever happened were it not for DS.
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I'm just wondering here guys, has anyone else had a barbecue or bonfire with their Square games?
I've been slowly burning my shit over the past couple of weeks, if you plan to do this, make sure to do so as well, that shit stinks baaaaaad.
So far, I've destroyed FFVII (the first FF I beat and the first to burn), FFVIII (always hated you), Final Fantasy Chronicles (with Chrono Trigger, nothing shall be spared from my hate) and Chrono Cross (should have done that years ago, stupid file corrupting piece of shit). I'll be doing Final Fantasy Anthology this week.
But yeah, I'm done with Square Enix for good.
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I'm just wondering here guys, has anyone else had a barbecue or bonfire with their Square games?
I've been slowly burning my shit over the past couple of weeks, if you plan to do this, make sure to do so as well, that shit stinks baaaaaad.
So far, I've destroyed FFVII (the first FF I beat and the first to burn), FFVIII (always hated you), Final Fantasy Chronicles (with Chrono Trigger, nothing shall be spared from my hate) and Chrono Cross (should have done that years ago, stupid file corrupting piece of shit). I'll be doing Final Fantasy Anthology this week.
But yeah, I'm done with Square Enix for good.
The sad and sorrow i could seek on your soul, but certainly you hate on the wrong games, that is Squaresoft games dammit!!
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Glenn27, you are right that under no plausible scenario would anyone have lost $150,000 or gone to jail. But even a fraction of that, and a criminal record, combined with months of legal uncertainty, is no trivial sacrifice.
Your rhetoric is commendable, because with it you are making yourself look virtuous even as you are trying to pressure other people into martyring themselves all for a video game. In this you are being manipulative, for which I cannot fault you, but you are also being unreasonable, for which I can. The people who created Crimson Echoes have decided how to respond to Square Enix's demands. That decision was made weeks ago, and your consent was not required. You did not make the game. It was never your game, nor was its fate yours to choose. Your willingness to make decisions for other people without regard for their welfare is unimpressive and typical. Your deluded conviction in your own flawed reasoning as to Square Enix's legal posture is laughable and frustrating. Your unwillingness to accept the situation is neither a show of bravery nor conviction, but merely an exercise in selfishness.
You are not required, of course, to accept the course of action that the development team chose to take. Thus far you have been free to make your feelings known here in the forums. But now you are repeating yourself, with increasing hostility, and you are antagonizing other forum members, and you are abusing the language of civil rights to inflate your case, unwarrantedly. If your cause was a noble one I would stand behind you, but as it is you are just making noise. I suggest you retreat a few paces and choose a more reasonable limit for yourself, because you won't last long on this site otherwise.
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The sad and sorrow i could seek on your soul, but certainly you hate on the wrong games, that is Squaresoft games dammit!!
They'll still part of the problem damnit! It's not like Enix went "Oh, someone is making a fan-game based off of Squaresoft's license, let's go and shit on their dreams!" It was both, and I want nothing to do with either of them.
SO BURN IN HELL ASSHOLES! YOU'VE JUST ONE LIFE-LONG FAN!
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Glenn27, you are right that under no plausible scenario would anyone have lost $150,000 or gone to jail. But even a fraction of that, and a criminal record, combined with months of legal uncertainty, is no trivial sacrifice.
Your rhetoric is commendable, because with it you are making yourself look virtuous even as you are trying to pressure other people into martyring themselves all for a video game. In this you are being manipulative, for which I cannot fault you, but you are also being unreasonable, for which I can. The people who created Crimson Echoes have decided how to respond to Square Enix's demands. That decision was made weeks ago, and your consent was not required. You did not make the game. It was never your game, nor was its fate yours to choose. Your willingness to make decisions for other people without regard for their welfare is unimpressive and typical. Your deluded conviction in your own flawed reasoning as to Square Enix's legal posture is laughable and frustrating. Your unwillingness to accept the situation is neither a show of bravery nor conviction, but merely an exercise in selfishness.
You are not required, of course, to accept the course of action that the development team chose to take. Thus far you have been free to make your feelings known here in the forums. But now you are repeating yourself, with increasing hostility, and you are antagonizing other forum members, and you are abusing the language of civil rights to inflate your case, unwarrantedly. If your cause was a noble one I would stand behind you, but as it is you are just making noise. I suggest you retreat a few paces and choose a more reasonable limit for yourself, because you won't last long on this site otherwise.
Trying to manipulate other people into martrying people for the game? Hell, give me a copy of the beta and I'd do it myself. I'll back up my words myself.
And I'm not trying to "manipulate" anyone. I believe exactly what I say. And I do believe that some of the decisions made by the game staff were based off of flawed beliefs like the belief in the excessive amount of authority and corporal punishment SE could diss.
It is true what I said about lawyers lying- read "Game over press start to continue" and read the story of Donkey Kong. Lawyers working for movie executives LIED TO NINTENDO DELIBERATELY to try and trick them into giving up the license. Did they get punished? Nope. If someone tried to they could just say, "we were mistaken." What do you think SE's lawyers would say if it was proven their statement was false?
Lawyers DO lie to fulfill their goals! Someone should research to see exactly how much of what SE claims actually is true- accepting everything they say at complete face value is the wrong way to go about this. They'll claim whatever they can to get what they want and if you accept it as fact then they're sure as hell not going to try to correct you or make you any wiser about it.
As for money, sure, SE can shit out an infinite amount of cash but I think the gaming community would work to raise funds for the creators- I'd certainly help out. C'mon, there are people who would chip in- maybe Jimmy Fallon would have the guy on his show. The dude's a gaming maniac, oldschool-style, he might be happy to help out.
And someone talked about the amount of time court stuff would waste for the game staff- well guess what? SE already just wasted a full 5 years of their life that they'll never get back. Maybe it's their game and it is their decision but I still believe firmly that it is the wrong decision and that it's something they will regret down the line. They're looking at it the wrong way as imagining that SE's wrath and legal claims would instantly and automatically be 100% realized. They're thinking only of worst-case scenarios, not imagining that any other outcome could be possible- as if the future is just doomed no matter what they could try.
If someone chose to kill themself or make another bad decision should I just sit back and not do anything because it's none of my business? No, I do not think I should. This is not as extreme an example but my point still remains.
Anyway, I think I've pretty much said my piece now this will be my last post on this subject. Creators, I really hope you think about what I've said. Those 5 years you're -never- going to get back.... are you going to let those years be for nothing- or are you going to fight to make them mean something?
The choice is up to you.
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The sad and sorrow i could seek on your soul, but certainly you hate on the wrong games, that is Squaresoft games dammit!!
They'll still part of the problem damnit! It's not like Enix went "Oh, someone is making a fan-game based off of Squaresoft's license, let's go and shit on their dreams!" It was both, and I want nothing to do with either of them.
SO BURN IN HELL ASSHOLES! YOU'VE JUST ONE LIFE-LONG FAN!
You are going to regret burning your games later. You know it and so do I.
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Yeah, but during these past five years they could work on the game whenever they wanted, whenever they had a free moment. If they were sued, they'd have to report to court at a certain time, at a certain place. They couldn't pick the time. They have jobs, they'd have to take time off those jobs. They have schoolwork, they'd have to push that aside.
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This threads pissing me off, I know I can just avoid it but it was a news thread. So far its been one post by Agent and the rest has be useless trash.
Your Burning games nightmare!?! Your just wasting your invested money! That doesn't do anything. Disgusting.
Glenn27, as passionate as you are your a flat our dumb ass.
I will still buy SE game, if their good. I will enjoy the videos that Agent is sharing. I will help the fan base thrive by contributing to any projects, art, etc. that I can. I think that the way to show support to the CE team who have done a lot only to hear people tear them down.
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The sad and sorrow i could seek on your soul, but certainly you hate on the wrong games, that is Squaresoft games dammit!!
true that squaresoft and square Enix are totally different thanx to that merge which wasent realy smart
yes most of the posts are trash besides agent 12 lol including mine
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You know, they've said time and again that all copies were destroyed.
If any are out there, then that person is being dishonest about something important.
What reason do we have to distrust the crew, to think that copies still remain?
I'd love to keep hope for an eventual release, but it's just not there.
The real world... just doesn't work like that.
It doesn't matter if the lawyers have a solid case or not, either.
That they are lawyers working for a big company, against fans that have less resources...
That's enough to do exactly what they want to do.
Fans don't have the time or resources to go through the whole legal process.
Even if they won, it would cost them a lot in the long run, in more than just time and money.
They'd always have to live with the fact that they were in that trial.
The fact that they did something of questionable legality, and went to trial over it.
Sometimes it doesn't matter if you're innocent or guilty.
Just as long as what you've done can be made to look bad enough by the big companies.
Everyone... seems to expect the Crimson Echoes team to give up their lives for a hobby.
If it was that simple, if it wouldn't destroy their lives, they would have, I think.
I believe in them.
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You know, they've said time and again that all copies were destroyed.
If any are out there, then that person is being dishonest about something important.
What reason do we have to distrust the crew, to think that copies still remain?
Two words: Plausible deniability. I hope they are being dishonest about it, honestly. I WANT to distrust them on this. Of course they're going to say in public that all copies have been destroyed, they pretty much have to. There's no way for any of us to know if someone kept their copy.
They'd always have to live with the fact that they were in that trial.
The fact that they did something of questionable legality, and went to trial over it.
Eh, I wouldn't have a problem doing something of questionable legality and going to trial. It's not a moral issue. The CE guys are in the right. The problem is the financial and temporal consequences.
If it was that simple, if it wouldn't destroy their lives, they would have, I think.
I believe in them.
I don't think it would destroy their lives. Disrupt, yes. Destroy, probably no, though there's always that chance, and that risk is probably too big for them to take. They made the smart decision. Not the altruistic decision, of course, but the smart one.
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:picardno
I have to agree with Sara,
I have one word for CE team, please do not destroy the copies completely, it was, afterall, your finest work. I do not have intention about letting it torrented or all the leak stuff. But if i was you, I could not resist to delete the games, but I would save it on my computer merely for momento purpose.
This matter should be dropped down for now, the identity of Alinat0r have been revealed, there is no official statement from SE, and the lawyer is a smart guy and unproductive to be talk to, no one would ever want to paid that mountain of money nor to be jailed nor send this matter to court. However, if any news regarding this matter arise, I gladly read them, for one purpose:
Please, a fanfic of the games should be enough... I don't want to read any bad news, again,ever.
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@RySenkari
i dont really think we should talk about Plausible deniability or why they arent fighting back we all know the CE team is in the right SE just dont care there blind and have a closed mind attitude changing there mind would be like trying to make concrete with sand and nothing else.
just wait be patient licenses do expire you know they are not permanent.
how ever as they said it was deleted but with trojans and spyware who knows
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I felt shocked when i saw C&D letter for a first time and I was hoping that they would in the end let you release your project (maybe under some circumstances).Normally I don't post,I am merely a reader ,but I want to tell You that I appreciate your hard work and It's sad that your dream cannot be dreamed by others. Even if every copy of ROM have been destroyed,your project is alive as long as You want to support it,and I am looking forward to see Crimson Echoes released one day....in the future even in distant one :)
Thumbs Up
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@Sara
In theory, it's impossible that every single copy was destroyed :picardno .
This is the internet, you think the beta testers deleted all the copies? How can they even prove that? I'm not saying to give everyone hypocrite hope but still, we are PROBABLY going to see this game uproar someday.
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I hope a channel of communication is still open?
I still want things to be settled, an official response (updated and more accurate if possible) be released...
I still suggest contact with SquareEnix of Japan. I think they're nicer and more open there. Besides, thats where the company originally started from, right?
Please, Chrono Compendium, don't give this dream up... I appreciate all you've done... But as long as an official statement has not been released, I cannot leave this issue in peace... And I don't think you guys can, either.
Keep trying. The dream must live on... Else, what are we but slaves to their own mechanisms? What is written as law is NOT always just...
The new mantra, *embrace and assist*, may still be possible at shores beyond "the free and democratic America" (where 'the people' have the dominant power). [Intellectual Americans know this is NOT true -- the business heads and government hold most of everything... It is only until 1/4 of the population band together that a true difference can be made.]
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CE team, if you guys seriously spend the rest of your lives doing nothing about this and go off happily diving into your graves as 90-year old farts who refuse to release their game because of false threats and hype from LAWYERS (gee, like those guys never lie, threaten, and make false implications to frighten people into complicity! Nope, lawyers are so well-known for their honesty and high integrity!) from a Japanese company, then I've lost all my respect for you.
Seriously, how old are you?! That is the biggest load of crapola I've yet to read on this subject. If you're actually old enough to have a job--which I doubt--then you really must not have much self-respect if you'd be willing to throw your life away over a freaking ROM hack. I'M going to major in game design and pursue a career in it, so obviously I'm a game fanatic, but even I realize that there are things in live that come before gaming.
Say what you, yourself would would do, fine...but don't call the CE team spineless for having self-respect and common sense!
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Trying to manipulate other people into martrying people for the game? Hell, give me a copy of the beta and I'd do it myself. I'll back up my words myself.
Just giving you a copy would be blatant copyright infringement. The CE team might as well release it themselves if they were going to do that.
CE team, if you guys seriously spend the rest of your lives doing nothing about this and go off happily diving into your graves as 90-year old farts... then I've lost all my respect for you.
Gadzooks, not your respect?! Sure, letting down fans, having SE trample on your dreams, and dealing with litigations is tough, but how can they live without your respect? Let me express their sorrow in verse:
Now the light has turned to darkness
And all food will taste like sassafras
Without having your respect
They'll probably die, I'd expect
Or at least have indigestion.
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CE team, if you guys seriously spend the rest of your lives doing nothing about this and go off happily diving into your graves as 90-year old farts... then I've lost all my respect for you.
Gadzooks, not your respect?! Sure, letting down fans, having SE trample on your dreams, and dealing with litigations is tough, but how can they live without your respect? Let me express their sorrow in verse:
Now the light has turned to darkness
And all food will taste like sassafras
Without having your respect
They'll probably die, I'd expect
Or at least have indigestion.
Aahaaaa...that made my day... Thanks for making me smile, Thought.
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Ok guys, let's stop it... the game won't be released. Let's be happy with the videos. I can't afford to buy a PS3, but I was happy enough to see on youtube all the MGS4's CGs. It's almost the same thing. We can't have the game, so let's be happy with the videos.
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Trying to manipulate other people into martrying people for the game? Hell, give me a copy of the beta and I'd do it myself. I'll back up my words myself.
And I'm not trying to "manipulate" anyone. I believe exactly what I say. And I do believe that some of the decisions made by the game staff were based off of flawed beliefs like the belief in the excessive amount of authority and corporal punishment SE could diss.
It is true what I said about lawyers lying- read "Game over press start to continue" and read the story of Donkey Kong. Lawyers working for movie executives LIED TO NINTENDO DELIBERATELY to try and trick them into giving up the license. Did they get punished? Nope. If someone tried to they could just say, "we were mistaken." What do you think SE's lawyers would say if it was proven their statement was false?
Lawyers DO lie to fulfill their goals! Someone should research to see exactly how much of what SE claims actually is true- accepting everything they say at complete face value is the wrong way to go about this. They'll claim whatever they can to get what they want and if you accept it as fact then they're sure as hell not going to try to correct you or make you any wiser about it.
As for money, sure, SE can shit out an infinite amount of cash but I think the gaming community would work to raise funds for the creators- I'd certainly help out. C'mon, there are people who would chip in- maybe Jimmy Fallon would have the guy on his show. The dude's a gaming maniac, oldschool-style, he might be happy to help out.
And someone talked about the amount of time court stuff would waste for the game staff- well guess what? SE already just wasted a full 5 years of their life that they'll never get back. Maybe it's their game and it is their decision but I still believe firmly that it is the wrong decision and that it's something they will regret down the line. They're looking at it the wrong way as imagining that SE's wrath and legal claims would instantly and automatically be 100% realized. They're thinking only of worst-case scenarios, not imagining that any other outcome could be possible- as if the future is just doomed no matter what they could try.
If someone chose to kill themself or make another bad decision should I just sit back and not do anything because it's none of my business? No, I do not think I should. This is not as extreme an example but my point still remains.
Anyway, I think I've pretty much said my piece now this will be my last post on this subject. Creators, I really hope you think about what I've said. Those 5 years you're -never- going to get back.... are you going to let those years be for nothing- or are you going to fight to make them mean something?
The choice is up to you.
Zeality just moved to Europe for his grand tour and is trying to get settled into a new life there after finally finishing business school, JP has a full-time job at a major corporation that due to the downturn in the economy wouldn't hesitate to fire him if he ran off to go fight court battles instead of showing up to work, and even though I could implicate myself and try to step in for them, I'm too busy trying to keep North Korea from turning the Korean peninsula and maybe even Japan into a giant, burning hell of death and destruction. But then, even if I did step in, Zeality and JP could still be dragged into court, and nobody has the right to be placing them into that situation without their consent.
Also, I can't speak for the others, but I would certainly find it unethical to take money from fans to fight a legal battle, even in this case. Besides, the money isn't the problem. The problem is people getting dragged away from their current lives and forced to put everything on hold for some indefinite and unclear amount of time that could drag on for months or even years just to deal with this matter, and that's a sacrifice that nobody here is willing or capable of making at the moment.
You have to remember that those wasted five years were in people's own homes working on a creative project over the Internet. They didn't have to put their lives on hold, move somewhere else, and go to court every day to make a game -- they just had to work in the comfort and security of their own homes. It was fun, it was creative, and it was challenging -- but it wasn't affecting the rest of their lives. Going to court would be a completely different matter. You simply can't compare those five years to any amount of time needed to handle the legal repercussions of releasing the game and going to court over it, because they aren't the same thing.
Anyway, if you can't understand and respect other people's situations and the fact that they have different priorities in life than you do, then I fail to see why anyone should respect your opinions concerning what they should do.
I, for one, respect their decision and won't due anything to risk ruining their current position. If you don't agree with their decision, then you should persuade them that the game is worth risking their jobs and personal lives for instead of deriding them for not putting gaming and gaming culture before other aspects of their lives.
But then, you'd probably realize just how silly that makes you sound -- unless you really think video games and video game culture are the end all be all of human existence.
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Ok guys, let's stop it... the game won't be released. Let's be happy with the videos. I can't afford to buy a PS3, but I was happy enough to see on youtube all the MGS4's CGs. It's almost the same thing. We can't have the game, so let's be happy with the videos.
I concur.
Also, MGS4 is pretty much more movie than game :lol:
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Why not turn the game into a flash movie? Each chapter could have episodes. There isn't a law against fan videos right? Just use the script and dialogue you have like make it a fan fiction of your own works! Forget the game, turn it into something new for a change. Keep the dream alive. Remember, don't believe in yourself, believe in the me who believes in you, for yours is the dream that will conquer the heavens. :kamina
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Why not turn the game into a flash movie? Each chapter could have episodes. There isn't a law against fan videos right? Just use the script and dialogue you have like make it a fan fiction of your own works! Forget the game, turn it into something new for a change. Keep the dream alive. Remember, don't believe in yourself, believe in the me who believes in you, for yours is the dream that will conquer the heavens. :kamina
I said this earlier, as well...I don't remember where. But yeah, I think that a Flash video (or interactive fiction of some sort) would be pretty epic.
The thing about an interactive fiction that I find appealing is that you would still be able to keep the choices available to the characters, which is something the developers were sad about losing were the play-throughs posted as videos--which they're going to be.
The only trouble with that is that it's more work, and I'm not sure if the CE team really wants to put so much more time into this project. Who knows how long it might take to turn five years of game into a Flash movie/story/choose your own adventure?
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They could use the annotations on youtube to link to different videos every time there is a choice
Also how come I don't see this on any other sites yet? This is why waiting for an official response was dumb nobody else cares much anymore. Priority number one should be to get a penny arcade comic about this that is how the porn site beat Nintendo after all. (OK maybe not but a comic would be awesome. A game journalist asking somebody at E3 during an interview maybe a developer about this or fangames would also be awesome)
Also I think the debate about releasing the game or not is interesting. (I still think Square got tricked by Dark Sage and that matters a lot because they would probably sue a profiting game but never waste time on a free fangame even if they mistakenly sent a C&D to them and are to stubborn/lazy/don't want any more attention from the press to undo the thing.)
Anyways I just wanna add that even though SE are rich doesn't mean they will waste time money and a huge explosion of negative news and hate from their fans on a case they probably won't win (i'm sure they aren't responsible for an unprovable anonymous beta leak)over a thing that barely affects them like a romhack just to spite and destroy a person's life at great cost to them. that is not how corporations work.
Also I'm wondering why nobody has mentioned the possibility of a low settlement if they do actually sue so that nobody has to destroy their life/schedule going to court? isn't that how most lawsuits end up? Don't people actually pirating things only get $3000 that'd be easily get able in a pay for legal fees donation drive especially with the suit getting mentioned on every gaming site ever and it could be even less like 200.
Still looking forward to the videos I'm sure whatever the CE team decides is best and I support whatever they do cause it is their decision 8)
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Turning this into a flash video would be a huge, huge investment. I don't really forsee it happening in the future.
The best thing people can do is make sure that the videos are viewed by as many people as possible.
--JP
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They could use the annotations on youtube to link to different videos every time there is a choice
This is an interesting observation blarg. We're still going to upload linearly, but we'll go back and scrounge up sidequest footage too. To be honest I didn't record a whole lot besides the immediate aftermath of the choices, but we'll see what we can do in this regard.
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Hey, sorry about any personal insults towards the creators.
I didn't mean to get riled up at them it's just.... the whole situation has me really pissed off.
That douchebag asshole lying to SE and getting this project closed for his own personal shits and giggles. SE believing his lies then when being corrected then refusing to retract their position. SE promising to make a statement then basically lying and taking a shit on the creators to avoid giving this controversy anymore attention. And people talking about giving in to SE without taking a stand- I'm just supposed to smile and clap my hands and shrug my shoulders?
Yeah, I came off as overly fanboyish but my point still remains. I still think that letting the project die is the wrong decision, not just for the fans but mostly for the creators. That's five years of hard work gone- that they will never get back.
Maybe now is not a good time to fight a lawsuit- but when is it ever a "good" time? There is no such thing as that, not five years ago and not anywhere in the next twenty years. The creators could live to be 120 and there would never be a "good time" in that time period to fight. That's why massive soul-sucking corporations can usually throw their weight around and bully the little guy, people get afraid, but that doesn't mean the little guy should always submit.
Would I personally release it? Yeah I would, but I'm not them and I didn't make this game. I don't know the creators and their own personal reasons for saying and doing what they're doing but I don't disrespect them for that. I strongly disagree, but I take back any insults.
One last point though- my stuff about lawyers lying is right. That whole Donkey Kong story is COMPLETELY true- read the book I cited if you don't believe me.
If lawyers working for a massive soulless corporation would lie to another rich corporation and risk the consequences, then why wouldn't they risk lying to a bunch of little guys with little money? All they even got for LYING to Nintendo was a slap on the wrists. You think SE would worry about the consequences if it was proven they were lying to the creators here? Best they could muster is a slap on the wrist (extremely unlikely), or a fine worth less than what FF7 games sell in a 6-hour period, a risk MORE than worth the consequences if it can create a climate of fear and paranoia fanatically opposed to releasing this game in the fan community to do SE's work for them which it seems like they have more than accomplished in spades.
That's how lawyers work, "I'm right and here's why, and here's a bunch of threats about what we're going to try do and you'd better shut up and give us what we want." If they can mindfuck you and threaten you to the point you surrender without even putting up a fight then that outcome is most preferable.
They have no interest in generating negative publicity from a lawsuit on behalf of the modding community, they just want this issue to die and everybody to forget about this game, and that's why they had the creators not quote them at all and why they refused to publicly respond in any manner and chose to lie to them.
"Why the fuck should we bother to respond? Fuck you, we're SE and we don't have to and we don't care," is their basic response.
I hope that someday in the future that somebody releases this game anonymously and realizes that SE can't just sue and lock up all the creators and beta-testers. They're a massive soulless corporation but they're NOT as God-like and all-powerful like Lavos as they claim to be as far too many people here are too quick to automatically believe and accept as indesputable fact.
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Turning this into a flash video would be a huge, huge investment. I don't really forsee it happening in the future.
The best thing people can do is make sure that the videos are viewed by as many people as possible.
--JP
Yeah, I didn't really have my hopes up, either. It would just be cool, is all.
They could use the annotations on youtube to link to different videos every time there is a choice
That's an EPIC idea! I know it's already been replied to, but whatever! Cool idea! I don't know how feasible that is, considering everyone has supposedly deleted their beta copies...
However, if there IS someone who still has a copy, I'm sure they'd be willing to tape sidequest footage and email it to CEMemorial or something...no one would ever know which parts were original footage and which were taped later, after all. >_> <_<
I'm not trying to instigate some sort of leak here. If that wouldn't work, it wouldn't work, end of story.
I'm just throwing it out there.
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I just want to remind everyone that, regardless of Dark Serge's actions, it was SE who made the decision to C&D us. I would hope that nobody forgets that SE are the ones responsible for where we are now.
Actually, it's your own fault, but let's not get into that yet again.
Nice video.
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I know how we can still get the game released.
Let's challenge Square Enix to a game of basketball! Our five best players versus five of their characters. If we win, you guys get to release CE.
We just need to find Michael Jordan to help us.
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::Sigh::
I ducked out of here for a couple of weeks in the hopes that the worst of the mess would have quieted down a bit by now, then get back and find this...
Glenn27, if you're really so pissed off about the current state of affairs, why don't you put your money where your mouth is? Scrape together a couple of hundred dollars of your own money, find a lawyer versed in IP law, tell him the story, and ask him, in his professional opinion, whether or not Squeenix has a leg to stand on--you don't need anyone's permission just to ask about that. Or try to spread the story to more places. But don't waste your time and energy attacking the CE team for not being willing to pursue your ideals. They already have enough problems.
As for everyone else: Squeenix probably is waiting for this to blow over. It would be the sane thing to do, from their point of view. If that bothers you, then don't let it. Simple, no? But the place to do that isn't here at the Compendium--can't draw much attention that way.
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Hey guys... If there is ever time, and as a favor to all those Chrono fans that have never played it... Can there be a Prophet's Guile playthrough too? I'd love it, and I'm sure others would too ;) ..
(Amazing job on the videos, by the way... Hell, amazing job with the ROM patch itself, guys ;) !!)
And please confirm, is there still channels open with Square Enix? (As in, is contact still even possible?) All I can see is that they left the issue opened... I want them to issue a FINAL statement, and that's it. I want the lawyers to MAKE this an issue, not evade it. And I want SquareEnix to see how badly fans wish for Chrono... Even a fan game of this caliber should see the light some day... :')
And for a best case scenario, I want the game be offered to SquareEnix, promised to be distributed among the top heads and to SE of Jap, no strings attached (just need original story credit and such), and played through... I want them to see what a game Crimson Echoes could have been. (Has this even been carried out? If a channel of communication is still open, please do so and offer them this?) I will not say R.I.P. Crimson Echoes until that *official statement* comes to us fans.
But other than that, all I want is for this *still open* issue to be closed for good (so many of the Compendium, and I'm sure for the developers, can move on). And thanks CE and Compendium admins, for being so professional and resolute about this.
I wish you all the best. Nice work :)
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Excuse me everyone, good evening.
My name is Brett Wooley, I am the host of a live radio program in North East Louisiana called Meteor Radio.
I want an interview from someone involved with the project to speak about this. I don't care about how it needs to be approached. Whether it's to summon support, or to mourn the loss of a great project, I want the people to know about this.
Is there someone that can help me with this? Please let me know as soon as you can. Thank you for your time. And thank you for the dedication the team put into that project.
Sincerely yours,
Brett Wooley (Axtuse)
www.meteorradio.com
Have any of the staff here taken up this guy's request for a radio interview? I think that would be fantastic publicity.
As long as SE doesn't send another C&D against the Youtube playthrough (no reason to, because there's already a ton of Chrono Trigger playthroughs on Youtube), this is not a complete defeat and the CE team retains its dignity by showing off its work for all the world to see.
Unfortunately modding and other forms of fangaming are still a young area of fan activity in comparison to fan fiction, fan art, and fan film. I mean, this whole movement literally started in the late 90s and early 00s. We're on the cusp of a new cultural wave. We all thought SE was building up a tolerance for fangames with the release of various RPGMaker titles, fan translations/retranslations, and medium-scale mods like Prophet's Guile. Crimson Echoes, as one of the few full modifications/conversions to reach fruition, emerged onto a lightly treaded path, and SE, not being used to the existence of such things, decided to kick it down. But CE will not be the last such project attempted, in all probability. All this has just been one battle in the gradual campaign for acceptance of fan activity.
Very nicely put. I agree. There will be more projects as time goes on. Sooner or later the whole music, film and video game industries are just going to have to wake up and adapt to the realities that fan projects, file sharing and the like are not something you can just quash with a C&D order. Sure the CE crew couldn't put up a battle like the one that's engulfed the Pirate Bay guys, but it would've been foolish to do so, given the comparatively small size of the operation, and the fact that SE isn't pursuing the matter so aggressively.
I commend the CE team for going about things professionally, even getting in touch with and pressing SE for a release or statement. I think most folks would just fold and stew over things, or make like Glenn27 has been suggesting, taking the risk of a 6-figure fine and court battle over a hobby, and releasing the game in defiance of the C&D. It might've worked just fine that way. Maybe SE would've been too lazy in their fatcat bureaucrat offices to pursue it outside of threatening letters. Who knows. But ultimately it's the team's decision, and I would have done the same thing (perhaps storing a copy for myself, but that's not a possibility that can be discussed).
As for the whole Dark Serge thing, what can be said. It's stunning, how out of their way some people will go just to be a prick.
Thanks to all involved for the youtube clips, I'll watch them with interest. The suggestion of a flash video is neat, but if it's troublesome then meh. What do I know about these things. I hope that if anyone from the team gets the energy or interest in starting another, not-explicitly-Chrono game down the road, they can incorporate some story elements and the like into things.
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Hey guys... If there is ever time, and as a favor to all those Chrono fans that have never played it... Can there be a Prophet's Guile playthrough too? I'd love it, and I'm sure others would too ;) ..
Prophets guile is still on romhacking.net (they havnt gotten their C&D yet).
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Uhh... any chance we could get the videos without the commentary too, lol? Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely interested in hearing your thoughts/reasons for story choices, etc. Just that that seems like something I'd want to watch *after* I watch it normally. But maybe that's just me.
However you do it, though, definitely glad to see it. :)
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The commentary is Youtube annotations (not our voices :) ).
It actually improves the videos I think, they are usually added during boring parts like walking around the OW.
--JP
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And if we collect money through the internet, to pay a fine to Square Enix? Everyone can help, and the game will be release! 150.000 is not too hard for all fans of Chrono Trigger!
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And if we collect money through the internet, to pay a fine to Square Enix? Everyone can help, and the game will be release! 150.000 is not too hard for all fans of Chrono Trigger!
There's no telling how many times it'll happen. It's not like a fee or anything, SE has the right to sue and Cease & Desist over and over again.
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And if we collect money through the internet, to pay a fine to Square Enix? Everyone can help, and the game will be release! 150.000 is not too hard for all fans of Chrono Trigger!
thats not quite how it works. The CD stated that for EACH infringement (download) that they would charge the 150k, and possible jail time. Paying the fine doesnt get you a get out of jail free pass, they can still deny you the right to put the game out, they just get 150k of your money in the process, as Pty said.
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There's absolutely zero chance of jail time stemming from this. This would've been entirely a civil matter.
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The commentary is definitely a plus. However, as with all Youtube annotations, they can be switched off entirely. Best of all worlds. But I'd keep them on, it's like having an Ultimania sitting right in front of you while you play.
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I haven't posted in awhile. In fact I hadn't been to the site for a while until about a week ago when I began to see things unfold as they are now. I want to offer my condolences for what happened, it was all so unnecessary.
Everyone please keep your head's up, this is still a great board with fantastic content. I think you'll find the future of this board in a much happier state then it finds itself presently.
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Ha, in a way it's a pity jail time wasn't an option. I really doubt it would have been a long sentence over such a petty issue. We probably could've drawn straws or taken shifts!
The commentary is wonderful, btw. Thanks for adding it.
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Oh... This is bad!
But, if we make a Crimson Echoes day?
Everybody could send an email to the Square-Enix on a particular day, to show that there are many people who want the game!
This cannot end! Its the REAL continuation of Chrono Trigger!
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I'd just like to cite Square-Enix's own Corporate Philosophy, originally found here: http://www.square-enix.com/eng/company/philosophy.html. I've italicized what I believe to be especially important passages...
Corporate Philosophy
To spread happiness across the globe by providing unforgettable experiences
This philosophy represents our company’s mission and the beliefs for which we stand. Each of our customers has his or her own definition of happiness. Square Enix provides high-quality content, services, and products to help those customers create their own wonderful, unforgettable experiences, thereby allowing them to discover a happiness all their own.
Management Guidelines
These guidelines reflect the foundation of principles upon which our corporate philosophy stands, and serve as a standard of value for the Group and its members. We shall strive to achieve our corporate goals while closely considering the following:
1. Professionalism
We shall exhibit a high degree of professionalism, ensuring optimum results in the workplace. We shall display initiative, make continued efforts to further develop our expertise, and remain sincere and steadfast in the pursuit of our goals, while ultimately aspiring to forge a corporate culture disciplined by the pride we hold in our work.
2. Creativity and Innovation
To attain and maintain new standards of value, there are questions we must ask ourselves: Is this creative? Is this innovative?
Mediocre dedication can only result in mediocre achievements. Simply being content with the status quo can only lead to a collapse into oblivion. To prevent this from occurring and to avoid complacency, we must continue asking ourselves the aforementioned questions.
3. Harmony
Everything in the world interacts to form a massive system. Nothing can stand alone.
Everything functions with an inevitable accord to reason. It is vital to gain a proper understanding of the constantly changing tides, and to take advantage of these variations instead of struggling against them. We shall continue to work towards harmony and serve as an integral part of this ever-fluctuating system.
In order to achieve ideal performance levels, we as individuals, shall aim for a mutual respect amongst our coworkers, remain conscious of the duties assigned us, and place an emphasis on teamwork.
As a corporate organization, we shall work diligently to maintain an optimal balance culminating in the ultimate satisfaction of all our stakeholders, including customers, shareholders, counterparties, and employees.
As a business entity, we shall contemplate what functions we are to perform within the realm of industry, while acting in a manner that ensures the mutual harmony and benefit of all parties within it.
Finally, as a member of society, we shall comply with laws and regulations while fulfilling our civic obligations, including community involvement and environmental conservation.
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Maybe now is not a good time to fight a lawsuit- but when is it ever a "good" time? There is no such thing as that, not five years ago and not anywhere in the next twenty years. The creators could live to be 120 and there would never be a "good time" in that time period to fight. That's why massive soul-sucking corporations can usually throw their weight around and bully the little guy, people get afraid, but that doesn't mean the little guy should always submit.
For starters, a good time would be when the all of the CE team members who could end up in court are actually living stateside again, rather than just starting out living overseas for the first time. It would also be after they've had a chance to secure their financial situations, talk to their bosses about the matter, and negotiate some time off from work. Finally, they should have their personal lives in order so they don't have to break off their current relationships just to pursue this in court.
You don't seem to be thinking about this from an adult perspective. Right now you're just thinking about this from a reckless, nothing-to-lose mentality as though this game were the most important thing in the world right now, but some things are more important to people: financial independence, love and romance, and travel. Saving the game would positively impact none of those factors, and at the moment, going to court over the game would negatively impact all of them.
There's absolutely zero chance of jail time stemming from this. This would've been entirely a civil matter.
Statutory copyright infringement can be tried as a federal misdemeanor in criminal court under some circumstances, resulting in a possible $30,000 fine and 1 year in jail.
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Statutory copyright infringement can be tried as a federal misdemeanor in criminal court under some circumstances, resulting in a possible $30,000 fine and 1 year in jail.
That would also mean we lose the right to vote, correct? Aren't all felonies like that or is it just the big ones? Is this a big one?
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Someone asked if I'd be willing to give a lawyer 100's of bucks (probably more) to study this case.
I don't have that kind of money or I would.
But...
if the team ever put up a donation bar? Hell yeah I'd submit 50-100 bucks to contribute. If I paid that much for a copy of Chrono Cross then I'd sure as hell contribute this much to help with a game like this.
All the donations could go to legal fees- and anything left over could go to charity, seems simple enough and certainly "non-profit" enough to help against SE's false claims they continue to believe from that dickhead Dark Serge.
To everyone else who's afraid of going against SE, sometimes people gotta fight for what's right- I don't believe in quitting. To whoever makes a decision, it all depends on how personally important their hard work is to them. Nobody spends years on a game like this hoping or expecting a company like SE to pull a major dick-move like this.
Besides, you shouldn't all believe how much authority SE's lawyers claim it is how hard they claim they can crap lightning down from above. Do we know for certain? No we don't- so we should stop assuming the worst-possible scenario. We'd need someone with legal expertise in gaming to look at this and explain things further. If we just ask SE's lawyers then of course they'll claim virtually unlimited powers to punish and abuse the team in the event of a leak. Doesn't mean it's true though- just means that that's their fancy lawyer talk for claiming a higher than thou position in court and that we need to find out where the real truth lies.
Likely, it's not as bad as what SE claims, but who knows? We need some legal experts in gaming expertise to help us. Everyone, stop assuming the worst case scenario or automatically trusting whatever the lawyers at SE tell us to believe. It may not be the best-case scenario either, but it requires more investigation to offer up a final analysis.
Nevertheless, I respect the Team's decision. My hatred is reserved solely for Dark Serge (may he be raped by Ozzy and Lavos for all eternity) and the tools at SE responsible for this decision and those who support it there.
Hopefully someday the team will decide that it is the "right" time to release their labor of love.
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Statutory copyright infringement can be tried as a federal misdemeanor in criminal court under some circumstances, resulting in a possible $30,000 fine and 1 year in jail.
No copyright infringement case in the United States has ever resulted in a penalty nearly that severe. Even in cases where jail time was involved, it was actual bootlegging of DVDs, like recording movies from the theater and such. This would never, ever, ever result in jail time.
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Statutory copyright infringement can be tried as a federal misdemeanor in criminal court under some circumstances, resulting in a possible $30,000 fine and 1 year in jail.
No copyright infringement case in the United States has ever resulted in a penalty nearly that severe. Even in cases where jail time was involved, it was actual bootlegging of DVDs, like recording movies from the theater and such. This would never, ever, ever result in jail time.
I find that personally very interesting. It would be very unprecedented if SE actually got the team locked up in jail then, particularly since they aren't even profiting from this.
Anyway, as for doing my part to try to help spread the word....
http://www.latenightwithjimmyfallon.com/
I'm going to try to find a way to get Jimmy Fallon's attention. (did I say Kimmel earlier? Meant Fallon, lol) Hopefully, if he's a Chrono Trigger fan, maybe he can do something to help us. I mean, he played Phantasy Star 3, surely he played a game as legendary and epic as CT and loved it.
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Second, I've heard rumors that Final Fantasy IV: The After Years was a ROM project that SE had also given the C&D to. Is there any truth to that?
And third, even if that rumor is not true, does SE have a copy of CE?
this is false, if you look at the screenshots you can tell that it is an original engine and not based on any other game.
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Excuse me everyone, good evening.
My name is Brett Wooley, I am the host of a live radio program in North East Louisiana called Meteor Radio.
I want an interview from someone involved with the project to speak about this. I don't care about how it needs to be approached. Whether it's to summon support, or to mourn the loss of a great project, I want the people to know about this.
Is there someone that can help me with this? Please let me know as soon as you can. Thank you for your time. And thank you for the dedication the team put into that project.
Sincerely yours,
Brett Wooley (Axtuse)
www.meteorradio.com
Have any of the staff here taken up this guy's request for a radio interview? I think that would be fantastic publicity.
Quoting so it doesn't get missed in the blizzard of posts.
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you know that sounds good but that's just my opinion KebreI
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Someone asked if I'd be willing to give a lawyer 100's of bucks (probably more) to study this case.
I don't have that kind of money or I would.
But...
if the team ever put up a donation bar? Hell yeah I'd submit 50-100 bucks to contribute. If I paid that much for a copy of Chrono Cross then I'd sure as hell contribute this much to help with a game like this.
All the donations could go to legal fees- and anything left over could go to charity, seems simple enough and certainly "non-profit" enough to help against SE's false claims they continue to believe from that dickhead Dark Serge.
To everyone else who's afraid of going against SE, sometimes people gotta fight for what's right- I don't believe in quitting. To whoever makes a decision, it all depends on how personally important their hard work is to them. Nobody spends years on a game like this hoping or expecting a company like SE to pull a major dick-move like this.
Besides, you shouldn't all believe how much authority SE's lawyers claim it is how hard they claim they can crap lightning down from above. Do we know for certain? No we don't- so we should stop assuming the worst-possible scenario. We'd need someone with legal expertise in gaming to look at this and explain things further. If we just ask SE's lawyers then of course they'll claim virtually unlimited powers to punish and abuse the team in the event of a leak. Doesn't mean it's true though- just means that that's their fancy lawyer talk for claiming a higher than thou position in court and that we need to find out where the real truth lies.
Likely, it's not as bad as what SE claims, but who knows? We need some legal experts in gaming expertise to help us. Everyone, stop assuming the worst case scenario or automatically trusting whatever the lawyers at SE tell us to believe. It may not be the best-case scenario either, but it requires more investigation to offer up a final analysis.
Nevertheless, I respect the Team's decision. My hatred is reserved solely for Dark Serge (may he be raped by Ozzy and Lavos for all eternity) and the tools at SE responsible for this decision and those who support it there.
Hopefully someday the team will decide that it is the "right" time to release their labor of love.
They had no intention of getting any sort of money off of this, and have stated that they have no intention of starting it ever..... oooooh you're lucky I'm in a happy frame of mind at the moment, or else I'd be going Ape**** on you xD. But, the prickyness shall be hidden for now.......
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Sorry to be dragging up things that should just go away but I'd like a chance to refute some of the claims made in this thread.
I personally know of a guy who was pirating movies not for profit and was caught and sentenced to six months in jail(thanks to overcrowding shortened to three). I don't know if he was also subject to fines, but if so they weren't in the hundred thousand range.
People can be sent to jail and can probably be fined as well.
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Someone asked if I'd be willing to give a lawyer 100's of bucks (probably more) to study this case.
I don't have that kind of money or I would.
But...
if the team ever put up a donation bar? Hell yeah I'd submit 50-100 bucks to contribute. If I paid that much for a copy of Chrono Cross then I'd sure as hell contribute this much to help with a game like this.
All the donations could go to legal fees- and anything left over could go to charity, seems simple enough and certainly "non-profit" enough to help against SE's false claims they continue to believe from that dickhead Dark Serge.
To everyone else who's afraid of going against SE, sometimes people gotta fight for what's right- I don't believe in quitting. To whoever makes a decision, it all depends on how personally important their hard work is to them. Nobody spends years on a game like this hoping or expecting a company like SE to pull a major dick-move like this.
Besides, you shouldn't all believe how much authority SE's lawyers claim it is how hard they claim they can crap lightning down from above. Do we know for certain? No we don't- so we should stop assuming the worst-possible scenario. We'd need someone with legal expertise in gaming to look at this and explain things further. If we just ask SE's lawyers then of course they'll claim virtually unlimited powers to punish and abuse the team in the event of a leak. Doesn't mean it's true though- just means that that's their fancy lawyer talk for claiming a higher than thou position in court and that we need to find out where the real truth lies.
Likely, it's not as bad as what SE claims, but who knows? We need some legal experts in gaming expertise to help us. Everyone, stop assuming the worst case scenario or automatically trusting whatever the lawyers at SE tell us to believe. It may not be the best-case scenario either, but it requires more investigation to offer up a final analysis.
Nevertheless, I respect the Team's decision. My hatred is reserved solely for Dark Serge (may he be raped by Ozzy and Lavos for all eternity) and the tools at SE responsible for this decision and those who support it there.
Hopefully someday the team will decide that it is the "right" time to release their labor of love.
This isn't about fear. Nobody's afraid of a bunch of old, out of touch guys in suits here. You're missing the point if you think that's what this comes down to.
You've obviously never been at a vulnerable point in your life where going off and pursuing something else ruins your current plans and makes them impossible to pick back up again. That's where most of the individuals involved in this are at in their lives right now, and this game being released in the near future isn't nearly as important to them as their current life plans and dreams. As such, they're simply taking the safe path for right now.
Show a little patience and understanding, and remember that this is a public forum that anyone can read. This is not the place to be planning alternatives, and any suggestions and plans you throw out there will have to be ignored by JP and Z, so they can't be implicated if they don't work out. In other words, every time you post a suggestion or idea here, it becomes that much less likely to happen.
And obviously nobody's giving up on anything right now. Stop being a stupid, impatient shit who assumes everything in life is so transparent that nobody's thought about the same things you have just because they aren't discussing them out in public.
Statutory copyright infringement can be tried as a federal misdemeanor in criminal court under some circumstances, resulting in a possible $30,000 fine and 1 year in jail.
No copyright infringement case in the United States has ever resulted in a penalty nearly that severe. Even in cases where jail time was involved, it was actual bootlegging of DVDs, like recording movies from the theater and such. This would never, ever, ever result in jail time.
And chances are we wouldn't get much in the way of fines and penalties even if we did go to court, but it's on the books and those are the risks involved. You can say they aren't likely, but you can't say they're impossible.
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Sorry to be dragging up things that should just go away but I'd like a chance to refute some of the claims made in this thread.
I personally know of a guy who was pirating movies not for profit and was caught and sentenced to six months in jail(thanks to overcrowding shortened to three). I don't know if he was also subject to fines, but if so they weren't in the hundred thousand range.
People can be sent to jail and can probably be fined as well.
yeah the defacto sentences for copyright infringement (maybe this is for federal offenses only) as far as I know are fines up to 250k and up to 5 years in federal prison. got it from the fbi's piracy website. but it is surprising that there have been very few cases of jail time.
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Someone asked if I'd be willing to give a lawyer 100's of bucks (probably more) to study this case.
I don't have that kind of money or I would.
But...
if the team ever put up a donation bar? Hell yeah I'd submit 50-100 bucks to contribute. If I paid that much for a copy of Chrono Cross then I'd sure as hell contribute this much to help with a game like this.
All the donations could go to legal fees- and anything left over could go to charity, seems simple enough and certainly "non-profit" enough to help against SE's false claims they continue to believe from that dickhead Dark Serge.
To everyone else who's afraid of going against SE, sometimes people gotta fight for what's right- I don't believe in quitting. To whoever makes a decision, it all depends on how personally important their hard work is to them. Nobody spends years on a game like this hoping or expecting a company like SE to pull a major dick-move like this.
Besides, you shouldn't all believe how much authority SE's lawyers claim it is how hard they claim they can crap lightning down from above. Do we know for certain? No we don't- so we should stop assuming the worst-possible scenario. We'd need someone with legal expertise in gaming to look at this and explain things further. If we just ask SE's lawyers then of course they'll claim virtually unlimited powers to punish and abuse the team in the event of a leak. Doesn't mean it's true though- just means that that's their fancy lawyer talk for claiming a higher than thou position in court and that we need to find out where the real truth lies.
Likely, it's not as bad as what SE claims, but who knows? We need some legal experts in gaming expertise to help us. Everyone, stop assuming the worst case scenario or automatically trusting whatever the lawyers at SE tell us to believe. It may not be the best-case scenario either, but it requires more investigation to offer up a final analysis.
Nevertheless, I respect the Team's decision. My hatred is reserved solely for Dark Serge (may he be raped by Ozzy and Lavos for all eternity) and the tools at SE responsible for this decision and those who support it there.
Hopefully someday the team will decide that it is the "right" time to release their labor of love.
They had no intention of getting any sort of money off of this, and have stated that they have no intention of starting it ever..... oooooh you're lucky I'm in a happy frame of mind at the moment, or else I'd be going Ape**** on you xD. But, the prickyness shall be hidden for now.......
There's a difference between -making money selling games- and asking for -free donations to pay solely for legal costs-. I didn't suggest they try to sell copies of their mod.
Try to be in a more discerning frame of mind when reading something.
Ie, if someone ran a Harry Potter fanfiction site and had a donation bar to buy a new cat or something then J.K. Rowling could not sue them. If they were charging money to read the stories only then she could.
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The commentary is Youtube annotations (not our voices :) ).
It actually improves the videos I think, they are usually added during boring parts like walking around the OW.
--JP
Oh, awesome. That's totally fine then, nm. :P
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Oh man, this thread is becoming another convoluted gathering of hope, desperation, and speculation again...
I'd just like to cite Square-Enix's own Corporate Philosophy, originally found here: http://www.square-enix.com/eng/company/philosophy.html. I've italicized what I believe to be especially important passages...
Corporate Philosophy
To spread happiness across the globe by providing unforgettable experiences
This philosophy represents our company’s mission and the beliefs for which we stand. Each of our customers has his or her own definition of happiness. Square Enix provides high-quality content, services, and products to help those customers create their own wonderful, unforgettable experiences, thereby allowing them to discover a happiness all their own.
Management Guidelines
These guidelines reflect the foundation of principles upon which our corporate philosophy stands, and serve as a standard of value for the Group and its members. We shall strive to achieve our corporate goals while closely considering the following:
1. Professionalism
We shall exhibit a high degree of professionalism, ensuring optimum results in the workplace. We shall display initiative, make continued efforts to further develop our expertise, and remain sincere and steadfast in the pursuit of our goals, while ultimately aspiring to forge a corporate culture disciplined by the pride we hold in our work.
2. Creativity and Innovation
To attain and maintain new standards of value, there are questions we must ask ourselves: Is this creative? Is this innovative?
Mediocre dedication can only result in mediocre achievements. Simply being content with the status quo can only lead to a collapse into oblivion. To prevent this from occurring and to avoid complacency, we must continue asking ourselves the aforementioned questions.
3. Harmony
Everything in the world interacts to form a massive system. Nothing can stand alone.
Everything functions with an inevitable accord to reason. It is vital to gain a proper understanding of the constantly changing tides, and to take advantage of these variations instead of struggling against them. We shall continue to work towards harmony and serve as an integral part of this ever-fluctuating system.
In order to achieve ideal performance levels, we as individuals, shall aim for a mutual respect amongst our coworkers, remain conscious of the duties assigned us, and place an emphasis on teamwork.
As a corporate organization, we shall work diligently to maintain an optimal balance culminating in the ultimate satisfaction of all our stakeholders, including customers, shareholders, counterparties, and employees.
As a business entity, we shall contemplate what functions we are to perform within the realm of industry, while acting in a manner that ensures the mutual harmony and benefit of all parties within it.
Finally, as a member of society, we shall comply with laws and regulations while fulfilling our civic obligations, including community involvement and environmental conservation.
If the CE team ever wishes to go to the courts -- this is actually a REALLY REALLY strong argument. In addition to the other copyright cases (and not to mention that this is only fan work), it gets pretty solid. Still its a grey area...
Whatever. Best of luck. I'm still waiting for an official statement from SE (and only then will I move on). Unless, of course, the CE team decides to fight this out longer. Whichever the case post-reponse-from-SE -- you have my backing.
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i agree happy-dude
-_- this is turning into the other thread slowly
any way my main concern is youtube may delete videos theyve been heavy on the removing lately i miss the days when youtube did nothing except porn
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...remember that this is a public forum that anyone can read. This is not the place to be planning alternatives, and any suggestions and plans you throw out there will have to be ignored by JP and Z, so they can't be implicated if they don't work out. In other words, every time you post a suggestion or idea here, it becomes that much less likely to happen.
Quoted for truth.
Besides, you shouldn't all believe how much authority SE's lawyers claim it is how hard they claim they can crap lightning down from above. Do we know for certain? No we don't- so we should stop assuming the worst-possible scenario. We'd need someone with legal expertise in gaming to look at this and explain things further. If we just ask SE's lawyers then of course they'll claim virtually unlimited powers to punish and abuse the team in the event of a leak. Doesn't mean it's true though- just means that that's their fancy lawyer talk for claiming a higher than thou position in court and that we need to find out where the real truth lies.
Likely, it's not as bad as what SE claims, but who knows? We need some legal experts in gaming expertise to help us. Everyone, stop assuming the worst case scenario or automatically trusting whatever the lawyers at SE tell us to believe. It may not be the best-case scenario either, but it requires more investigation to offer up a final analysis.
Quoted for idiocity. Yes, likely it's not as bad as it could be...based on what? Your hopes and dreams that the world is a nice, fluffy place where the rebels are always in the right and the man is keeping everyone down? I knew when you insulted the CE team by more or less calling them cowards that you were a mindless troll (meaning that I SHOULD ignore your ass), but damn, dude. YES, THIS IS MUTHA FUCKIN V TELLING SOMEONE ELSE TO GROW UP. Expect Hell to be a cold, cold place, bitches.
Stop being a stupid, impatient shit who assumes everything in life is so transparent that nobody's thought about the same things you have just because they aren't discussing them out in public.
Quoted for emphasis.
Also, where applicable, if you don't like the direction of the threads, you have the power to not read them. You have the power to report spam even! Or you can even help move the flow by contributing to discussion. Posting that you don't like the stupid discussion is stupider than the stupid discussion itself (no one quote my GameFAQs posts at me! :lol:).
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There's a difference between -making money selling games- and asking for -free donations to pay solely for legal costs-. I didn't suggest they try to sell copies of their mod.
Try to be in a more discerning frame of mind when reading something.
Ie, if someone ran a Harry Potter fanfiction site and had a donation bar to buy a new cat or something then J.K. Rowling could not sue them. If they were charging money to read the stories only then she could.
Yeah, that is bunk.
Rowling could sue the site either way for infringing on her copyright; heck, she could sue them even if they weren't taking any donations. The act of taking donations would mean that the limits on what she could sue for would increase, but that's neither here nor there if one would prefer to avoid court in the first place.
Also, an argument could still be made that any money raised for "legal actions" would be the result of the original copyright infringement and thus in turn be targeted.
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Statutory copyright infringement can be tried as a federal misdemeanor in criminal court under some circumstances, resulting in a possible $30,000 fine and 1 year in jail.
While true, a criminal copyright infringment charge would have to be prosecuted by the federal government using public funds, not by SE. I would love to hear a conversation where SE tries to convince a federal prosecutor that a case like this would be worth expending their prosecutorial resources, which are already stretched extremely thin. Granted, I've seen some pretty absurd federal criminal prosecutions, such as one that reached the 7th circuit a month or two ago where the prosecutor's oral argument ended up consisting mostly of trying to avoid answering questions about what kind of penalty would deter such prosecutorial misconduct, but I don't think that's much of a genuine danger here.
The real threat, and the reason I would do the same thing if I were in the position of the CE team, is the substantial risk of being haled into court on a suit for civil damages. Even though the damages would likely be quite low even if their rather unprecedented legal theory was found to have merit, the costs and burdens of litigation are themselves too great a risk for a mere hobby. I am just grateful that we will have the opportunity to see much of the good work that has been done, even if we can't play it ourselves.
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[quote author=I_Gnoramus
"Quoted for idiocity. Yes, likely it's not as bad as it could be...based on what? Your hopes and dreams that the world is a nice, fluffy place where the rebels are always in the right and the man is keeping everyone down? I knew when you insulted the CE team by more or less calling them cowards that you were a mindless troll (meaning that I SHOULD ignore your ass), but damn, dude. YES, THIS IS MUTHA FUCKIN V TELLING SOMEONE ELSE TO GROW UP. Expect Hell to be a cold, cold place, bitches."
I already gave the Donkey Kong/Nintendo example and explained how lawyers lied. Also, that's a nice little idiot scenario you offered, but, like I said....
"Likely, it's not as bad as what SE claims, but who knows? We need some legal experts in gaming expertise to help us. Everyone, stop assuming the worst case scenario or automatically trusting whatever the lawyers at SE tell us to believe. It may not be the best-case scenario either, but it requires more investigation to offer up a final analysis."
Learn how to read. Also, learn how to spell, "idiocity" isn't even a real word. And stop referring to yourself as "mutha fuckin" whatever, all you're doing is self-perpetuating your own "mutha fuckin" ignorance by referring to yourself in such a manner.
"Yeah, that is bunk.
Rowling could sue the site either way for infringing on her copyright; heck, she could sue them even if they weren't taking any donations. The act of taking donations would mean that the limits on what she could sue for would increase, but that's neither here nor there if one would prefer to avoid court in the first place.
Also, an argument could still be made that any money raised for "legal actions" would be the result of the original copyright infringement and thus in turn be targeted."
That's a moot point- authors generally don't go after fanfictions at all. Also, there's nothing legally stopping you from asking for donations regardless of what's on your site.
There is a significant legal difference between selling a fanfiction product and having a donation bar asking people to send you free stuff. It doesn't matter if the fanfiction is there or not, legally, you can only be punished for asking for money on the site if you're asking for the money in exchange for an illegal product. That is a precise legal technicality you need to understand, the difference between selling something illegally and just asking for free money. The act of asking for free money isn't criminal and the presence of fanfictions or mods on your site doesn't automatically make that act criminal either.
If they're going to punish you for a criminal then they'll punish you for the original act, the act of asking for free money doesn't automatically become criminal because of the other act since the money isn't being given in exchange for an illegal good or service.
Also, I already apologized for having insulted the creators earlier so stop holding that against me.
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Learn how to read. Also, learn how to spell, "idiocity" isn't even a real word.
Right. Nice job with the quoting there. Great job...
That's a moot point- authors generally don't go after fanfictions at all. Also, there's nothing legally stopping you from asking for donations regardless of what's on your site.
Yeah...this has already been covered, so I'll just let someone else remind you...
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[quote author=I_Gnoramus
"Quoted for idiocity. Yes, likely it's not as bad as it could be...based on what? Your hopes and dreams that the world is a nice, fluffy place where the rebels are always in the right and the man is keeping everyone down? I knew when you insulted the CE team by more or less calling them cowards that you were a mindless troll (meaning that I SHOULD ignore your ass), but damn, dude. YES, THIS IS MUTHA FUCKIN V TELLING SOMEONE ELSE TO GROW UP. Expect Hell to be a cold, cold place, bitches."
I already gave the Donkey Kong/Nintendo example and explained how lawyers lied. Also, that's a nice little idiot scenario you offered, but, like I said....
"Likely, it's not as bad as what SE claims, but who knows? We need some legal experts in gaming expertise to help us. Everyone, stop assuming the worst case scenario or automatically trusting whatever the lawyers at SE tell us to believe. It may not be the best-case scenario either, but it requires more investigation to offer up a final analysis."
Learn how to read. Also, learn how to spell, "idiocity" isn't even a real word. And stop referring to yourself as "mutha fuckin" whatever, all you're doing is self-perpetuating your own "mutha fuckin" ignorance by referring to yourself in such a manner.
"Yeah, that is bunk.
Rowling could sue the site either way for infringing on her copyright; heck, she could sue them even if they weren't taking any donations. The act of taking donations would mean that the limits on what she could sue for would increase, but that's neither here nor there if one would prefer to avoid court in the first place.
Also, an argument could still be made that any money raised for "legal actions" would be the result of the original copyright infringement and thus in turn be targeted."
That's a moot point- authors generally don't go after fanfictions at all. Also, there's nothing legally stopping you from asking for donations regardless of what's on your site.
There is a significant legal difference between selling a fanfiction product and having a donation bar asking people to send you free stuff. It doesn't matter if the fanfiction is there or not, legally, you can only be punished for asking for money on the site if you're asking for the money in exchange for an illegal product. That is a precise legal technicality you need to understand, the difference between selling something illegally and just asking for free money. The act of asking for free money isn't criminal and the presence of fanfictions or mods on your site doesn't automatically make that act criminal either.
If they're going to punish you for a criminal then they'll punish you for the original act, the act of asking for free money doesn't automatically become criminal because of the other act since the money isn't being given in exchange for an illegal good or service.
Also, I already apologized for having insulted the creators earlier so stop holding that against me.
I know that I said that I wasn't going to post anymore, and only use irc, but I just felt like saying. Take a fucking hint dude. CE is not getting released. The creators are not going to abandon their life just to get this game released and please you. If you can't understand this than you need to mature. Now before you make your next ridiculous post remember NOT GOING TO FUCKING HAPPEN. Plus you probably never even heard of this till it got C&D so stop acting like it's owed to you, because it's not.
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Learn how to read. Also, learn how to spell, "idiocity" isn't even a real word.
Right. Nice job with the quoting there. Great job...
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Quotes from Bruce Lee:
"Don't fear failure. — Not failure, but low aim, is the crime. In great attempts it is glorious even to fail."
. . .
"A goal is not always meant to be reached, it often serves simply as something to aim at."
Again, I wish the CE team best of luck; though I will continue to stress that *all* hope has not faded unless Square Enix finally gives us an adequate response. Before this day, our dreams are still alive; and when it comes, we will finally awaken. Keep trying, and "never compromise, even in the face of Armageddon."
Despite my personal feelings... It is ultimately up to the CE team to decide the course to take. I am completely in support for "The Month That Could Have Been" event ;) !!
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Keep trying, and "never compromise, even in the face of Armageddon."
True. Rorschach would've released the game. ...of course, we all saw what happened to him :(
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Keep trying, and "never compromise, even in the face of Armageddon."
True. Rorschach would've released the game. ...of course, we all saw what happened to him :(
yep, he got pwned by blue p***s man...
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Keep trying, and "never compromise, even in the face of Armageddon."
True. Rorschach would've released the game. ...of course, we all saw what happened to him :(
Am I the only human left on earth who knows that Rorschach was NOT intended to be nor does he make a good rolemodel of anykind?
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Glenn... I..... I don't know what to say to you.... So far, all you have done is whine about how the game isn't going to be released, and are thinking of anyway possible to get it for yourself. You have brought up idea that have been talked about AND disputed by the Production team themselves. They have said they will in no way ask for any money from people on this site, and have no intention of ever starting, debunking your Donation button. Also, telling me to read with an open mind? WHY DON'T YOU?!?!? All you have done is read our posts and say "Yeah, but if they do this they can release it"! I mean SERIOUSLY!!! Learn to FUCKING READ!!!
If you post one more idiotic post, containing some scheme to get CE released, or saying that I'm over reacting, or that everyone needs to think positive, or any bullshit that concerns CE or the discussion at hand in anyway, I swear to god, I will tear you a new one. I know you are merely a fan, and are "trying" to help... But seriously, you are not helping by bitching and whining about a game you have probably never heard, and saying things that have been said dozens of times before you even showed up here.
You are an annoying bastard, who doesn't seem to care about anyones life style but your own. You think that there are absolutely no consequences to this situation, and that releasing it is what's best for everyone. If you want a Chrono Trigger game, YOU make it!!! YOU spend 5 years on it, AND YOU Defy SE when they send you a C&D. Learn to read about the situation, rather than spouting about how it should just be released, and we can deal with the consequences later.
Now, to everyone else on the board. I apologize for exploding like that, but he was getting on my nerves. Yeah I'm out of line with this post, but somebody needed to say it. I especially apologise to you Faust since I prmised to try and stop my bitching and whining >_>. So, I apologize to all of you, but I want everyone, especially Glenn, to know that I meant every word I said up there. Continue with your current discussion.
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Now, to everyone else on the board. I apologize for exploding like that, but he was getting on my nerves. Yeah I'm out of line with this post, but somebody needed to say it. I especially apologise to you Faust since I prmised to try and stop my bitching and whining >_>. So, I apologize to all of you, but I want everyone, especially Glenn, to know that I meant every word I said up there. Continue with your current discussion.
I for one forgive you (even though that doesn't really matter huh hahaha). However people like that are best ignored or else you make yourself look bad. Still we all have the right to get angry now and then. Although thinking postive is a good thing silly. It's just people should focus that postive energy towards other goals.
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I nearly wrote a damn essay for this so here we go:
There is no need to say sorry Miki. G27 has shown time and again he's a stubborn, selfish idiot who won't listen to reason and common sense. I slightly got into it with him when he first showed up on the board. He's the type of smartass who will have an answer for anything you toss out and I don't mean that in the good way. Take a look at his posts overall. Being abrasive and rude wasn't working for him so he's trying to hide it by being a bit nicer now. However at the end of the day he still won't look at things clearly. Plus it's painfully obvious your trying to hide your self serving nature by acting like you know what your talking about and that everything will suddenly be ok if the team does what you say. However I need to be honest. He has made a few good points but they are moot when he makes them by being childish. So in the intrest of fairness I'm going to try to help the boy out with this......
Glenn I will say this in your defense: in my own opinion I too believe that Square's arguement is shakey. In the event DS's "e-mail" is real then Square did act on false info. Plus while Square may be in the right as far as defending their IP goes one does need to ask "Why just Chrono?" SE is so eagar to damn near lynch anyone who looks at the Chrono series the wrong way. However I've yet to hear of a case of them being so rabid when it comes to their two main "flagship" series. And it's not for a lack of hack projects involving Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest/Warrior. They are out there and a quick search will turn up far more of those than it will for a search of Chrono hacks. That fact alone along with several other things gives the CE team a pretty big leg to stand on if this somehow did go to court. It's like a termite colony. If your going to squash one then you damn well better be willing to go after them all.
Also in your defense: yes lawyers are a bunch of lying pricks. Due to a combination of the downward sprial of the economy, a lack of funds and sheer bad luck I've had my fair share of them in the past two years. I have almost been metaphorically fucked in the ass twice now due to a fender bender and unpaid rent at my old apartment. In case number one an elderly old woman backed into my PARKED Mustang that I was sitting in and yet she and her laywer claimed I somehow ran into her. Unknown to her I worked at the place it happened at and therefore had the security tape of said incident. The look on her face was priceless when she knew how screwed she was and they were forced to settle and pay me $550 in damages. Case number two is a very long story I really don't want to get into but the short end of it is that the client was only entitled to two months of rent plus intrest (about $1600). However him and his lawyer got a little too greedy and tried to claim about another $3000 in damages. That also didn't work out. At this point the only way I would want to deal with another lawyer is if he/she came in the form of representing my long lost uncle who just kicked the bucket and wants to give me a million dollars for some strange reason. In the infinitely unliked chance that does happen I'll put forth my million to help pay any legal fees the Compendium may face minus what I need to pay off my own legal touble and get me another car. Said Mustang has since died and frankly I need a decent set of wheels. :lol:
All joking aside back to the point. As me and Glenn have said and can clearly agree on the lawyers are a bunch of liars. Sure the Compendium and the CE team may have good points to make but it's a lawyer's job to stack the deck against the defendants as much as possible. If the lawyer is good then one of their jobs is to think of any possible counterargument the defense may make and be ready for it. Short of that the other tatic is to discredit the character of the defendant (hmm....I seem to remember some kind of trial scene for some RPG now but my memory is fuzzy :P). As far as the money goes is $150K a drop in the bucket for SE? Very much so. Could they get close to that full amount? If the judge is halfway sane then no. However a good lawyer would try to push for $150K per person that worked on it. Granted that's unlikely as hell but while rare I've heard of cases where that has happened before. The other option is $150K per copy of CE that they could confirm to exist should it leak. And while I do agree that if companies like SE don't ease up in the near future that a stand will eventually need to be made the time for that stand is not now. Said stand cannot be expected to be made by a bunch of twentysomethings who are in college or just starting their lives and careers. Choices in life sometimes depend on weighing the risk against the gain and in this case the gain does not even come close to what could be lost should they lose. Sometimes in order to win a war you've got to be willing to accept a few defeats. Going back me putting you in their shoes for a moment......lets say this was your game and you released it and lost. Well from the way you've been acting the money isn't a problem for you so let's try something new. How easy do you think it is to get a job with a criminal record? I've known people like this and it's one of the hardest things in the world. Sure some of them may have learned and regret their past mistakes but would you truely blame someone for not wanting to take a risk in hiring them? As for any halfway decent or government jobs you can kiss those goodbye.
As one final note Glenn you keep pushing the regret card. You say they "wasted" five years. Well for one the CE team did this in their free time. If all they did was eat, breath and shit this game then I'd say it would have taken half the time it did to make. Sure it's a bummer to have SE be the party pooper but they got to learn new things in the process that I'm sure could be applied to any sort of job dealing with computers, game design, programing, ect. That right there hardly seems like a waste. Look at most of the sane people that write fanfiction and do fan art. I doubt most of them approach it like they are Tolkien or Picaso. It's done for fun and they too can apply it to something else later if they so choose. Consider the fact that Zeality is in Europe right now. Sure I'd imagine he's still kinda bummed but he doesn't seem to be filled with regret and guilt like you imply. If he had you attitude he'd be brooding and looking for ways to get back at Square Enix day and night (not to mention in the middle of a potential shit storm of legal issues most likely). In the end you need to grow up and learn that CE wasn't the most pressing issue in the world that had the very power to determine who lives and dies. Hell be thankful you even got the videos. I myself will be enjoying those greatly one this old dial up connection gets replaced with cable internet on Monday. Thanks for taking the time to do it Faust ^_~
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Okay, I didn't read half of that, but I agree that Glenn27 is going a bit overboard.
There is not going to be a CE release. We need to get over this. It is gone. If we release Crimson Echoes, we'll lack a ZeaLitY and a JP, which will make everyone sad. All that we definitely have left are the videos that FaustWolf captured because he's a smart cookie. Let's worry about those right now.
This does not mean we shouldn't give up hope.
SE has yet to give us a statement. We need to hold out for that before we start to plan on bombing their HQ or something like that. And even then, when they make a statement, we shouldn't be doing our planning here. Notice the link that says 'Comment on forums' in the bottom right hand corner of each news post. It links here, to this discussion, and remember that everyone can read these posts. Everyone can see them, everyone can join...
Really now.
Let's think like smart people now, shall we?
I think we should just start throwing out bullshit suggestions, to fuck with the less smart people.
So we should definitely release CE on June 9th at 1:41 PM EST because SE will never know. They'll never trace it back to JP and Z, thus they'll never get fined or face court.
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Here, we should be more rational, plz.
The CE team tried to do a video of playtrough using annotation , that should be enough. If do not satisfied you, plz don't make fuss that might cause fall of compendium or getting jailed.
People should know there is more valuable assert than CE, your 'LIFE' ,mate.
However, if you consider CE as your life, then you just failed at life. No offense :jiraiya:
Lastly to teaflower, what event do occur on June 9th at 1:41 PM EST ?
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June 9th is my 17th birthday, and 1:41 is about the time I get home sometimes from school.. But it's EST because I'm in... EST.
Yes, rationality is the most important thing we can have right now. We need to think rationally, and stop making suggestions in this topic. SE can read it and it makes it 10 times less likely that JP and Z are going to try what we suggest.
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well i played the demo, it was full of awesomeness up till Schala said "Thats the demo" lol.
Cant wait for the vid footage of the rest of the game. Hopefully, in some dark corner of the net, someone will try and redo this game someday (differnt name obviously and all), but till then i await SE's next attempt to making a Chrono game, if they ever do.
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I don't mean to spam here, but these are for the depressed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Md2i6MWD4I&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Md2i6MWD4I&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_xy0BcI_nY&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_xy0BcI_nY&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM-r-ltInS4&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM-r-ltInS4&feature=related)
Please have a good laugh. It's the only way I know how to cheer people up over the internet, so please don't get mad.
You were right. Giving those crappy videos one-star ratings did help a negligible amount. But, really, right now the only thing that could cheer me up would be the complete Crimson Echoes or an RPG ROM hack of similar quality. :(
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I don't mean to spam here, but these are for the depressed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Md2i6MWD4I&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Md2i6MWD4I&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_xy0BcI_nY&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_xy0BcI_nY&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM-r-ltInS4&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM-r-ltInS4&feature=related)
Please have a good laugh. It's the only way I know how to cheer people up over the internet, so please don't get mad.
You were right. Giving those crappy videos one-star ratings did help a negligible amount. But, really, right now the only thing that could cheer me up would be the complete Crimson Echoes or an RPG ROM hack of similar quality. :(
Then go play Parallel Worlds. I wants me some CE video!
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I wasn't calling the CE videos crappy. I rather enjoyed them, although I don't think I'll be watching the rest. I was calling the stupid gag videos linked to much earlier in this thread "crappy." You know, the ones that my post links to?
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Ya, I got that. You do, however, have a second half of a post if you recall...
But, really, right now the only thing that could cheer me up would be the complete Crimson Echoes or an RPG ROM hack of similar quality. :(
So go play Parallel Worlds, then come back, cheered up. :wink:
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Are you sure an unbalanced challenge hack is something that can perk a person up at a time like this? :?
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Fine he's doomed. Whatever. Just trying to save the melodramatic. Now I know it's a mistake.
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I think you people at the US and other first world countries are too afraid of big companies and DMCA and piracy and all that crap. I don't know, here no one gives a sh!t about piracy, digital rights management or DMCA. Whatever, I'm just saying...
Regarding the videos, it's nice to see CE finally, though a bit sad not being able to play it but, as we say here: peor es nada...
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Hey everyone, just wanted to let you know I have posted the entire show AND the interview with Agent 12 separately. I hope this helps get the word out. Thank you.
Episode 3 - Play Your Role (http://www.meteorradio.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8:play-your-role&catid=4:briefing-room&Itemid=5)
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Nice. Wow, there was a lot of history to CE that I didn't even realize, this was really a great listen. Agent 12 sounds just like a cousin of mine; if everyone can say that, his ninja identity should be secure.
axtuse, you're a really fantastic interviewer! It's great when an interviewer actually knows something about the subject matter being talked about.
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Nice. I hope this dispels some misconceptions people have about the Compendium and Crimson Echoes.
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Now you guys can read my posts in my voice :)
Thanks for everything Axtuse!
--JP
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Fuckin' awesome, Axtuse. I really appreciated how you conducted and handled the interview, and thank you for allowing us to hear that--it was just magnificent.
Now you guys can read my posts in my voice :)
Thanks for everything Axtuse!
--JP
My goodness, it's happening now! You did well, Agent 17 12. It's awkward to be interviewed, but I think you held yourself quite well. Thanks for spending even more time on all this.
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Yeah, that was quite impressive. I'm dying for more! Is there any chance you can get a handle on ZeaLitY? I think he'd have a lot to say about this.
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LOL @ Mav!
I'm very pleased that everyone enjoyed the interview. My show is about and for the gaming community, and the termination of the CE Project was a deep cut to me and my relationship with SE. I would like to thank Agent 12 again for his time, and everyone's commitment to the project.
And the word is out there friends. Google Crimson Echoes and look at all the coverage it got.
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Aye, CE is all over the web. The next step is keeping it in people's minds, as that's all we can do at this point.
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good interview Agent 12
and yes keeping CE in peoples minds is important mav once we let that down Square has won but i dont exactly know what they won from that except alot of hate
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I still don't believe the Alienat0r email was actually real, but we have little evidence to cite either way. It was quite elaborate for a hoax - the perpetrator had quite a bit of foresight to lay false info on other videogame forums under the name Hellspawns on April 9 - but on the other hand, it's gonna take a lot to convince me that Neil misspelled his name like that if it was a real email with a real reply being shown.
Lemme quote some lyrics which have been stuck in my head for a while. They seem to fit that situation well, despite how old the situation may be.
Breaking my back just to know your name
Seventeen tracks and I've had it with this game
I'm breaking my back just to know your name
But heaven ain't close in a place like this
Anything goes but don't blink you might miss
Cause heaven ain't close in a place like this
I said heaven ain't close in a place like this
Bring it back down, bring it back down tonight
Never thought I'd let a rumor ruin my moonlight
Well somebody told me...
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I actually had no excuses to have been surprised at the C&D letter as thats what always happens to big fan projects these days.
Since the goverment now wants to hire people to regulate the internet expect this site to get MUCH much smaller in terms of content and fanbase as they will look into every excuse to shut things down and show only sites THEY like. Not what YOU like.
In China they can block what ever they deem is 'goverment intrustive' and the person behind the keyboard won't even know they are being blocked since the search results won't show it period.
This website may be considered piracy in China and someobody will pass it by cause it doesn't show on Google/Yahoo.MSN.etc
This site will be considered "supporting piracy" no matter what steps the webmaster takes unless this site becomes dull and boring which I won't come. :picardno
If 5 years happens and this site doesn't get into trouble then you can laught at me.
Why is thiss message body jumping every time I type now?
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I actually had no excuses to have been surprised at the C&D letter as thats what always happens to big fan projects these days.
Since the goverment now wants to hire people to regulate the internet expect this site to get MUCH much smaller in terms of content and fanbase as they will look into every excuse to shut things down and show only sites THEY like. Not what YOU like.
In China they can block what ever they deem is 'goverment intrustive' and the person behind the keyboard won't even know they are being blocked since the search results won't show it period.
This website may be considered piracy in China and someobody will pass it by cause it doesn't show on Google/Yahoo.MSN.etc
This site will be considered "supporting piracy" no matter what steps the webmaster takes unless this site becomes dull and boring which I won't come. :picardno
If 5 years happens and this site doesn't get into trouble then you can laught at me.
Why is thiss message body jumping every time I type now?
(http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk1/FaFniR_Medley/battlecat.jpg)
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NO U