Chrono Compendium

News and Updates => Site Updates => Topic started by: FaustWolf on May 13, 2009, 04:01:54 am

Title: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 13, 2009, 04:01:54 am
(http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/4896/goodevening1e.png)
There are several disturbing rumors floating about regarding the present situation. While we wait for an official overture from Square Enix, let's nip these in the bud, shall we?

Rumor 1: "Crimson Echoes was a piece of vaporware. The modders made this C&D up because they knew they would never finish something so ambitious!"

This is extremely easy to disprove. The terms of the C&D do not forbid gameplay footage taken during the beta testing phase to be uploaded to our understanding, so we'll try to get some of our numerous recordings processed and uploaded. For now, please review the preview videos. (http://www.crimsonechoes.com/)

Rumor 2: "These modders never even spoke to a live person to verify that the C&D is real and not a hoax."

Utterly untrue. As of now, one Compendium member not in the core project team and one Compendium member in the core project team have reached SE legal and confirmed. However, they are not at liberty to say what was discussed. We await another official overture from Square Enix.

Rumor 3: "These modders were taking donations from fans, and just ran away with the money."

Do you see a Paypal button anywhere on the Chrono Compendium? No? I assure you, the CE team did not receive a penny for its work. This was a non-profit fan project, powered only by sheer love for the Chrono series.

Ramsus says: You may also notice this site is one of the few active gaming sites out there that doesn't feature any ads. We've never had any interest in making any money off the site or any of the projects associated with it.

We also turn down offers for free hosting in cases where it might create a conflict of interest or would lead to the introduction of ads.

This attitude holds true for the Crimson Echoes project as well -- no profit, all pain. There's never been any monetary gain to be had out of all this, which keeps our intentions and our direction pure of conflicting interests or artistic compromises, and that's why it's been such a pleasure to work on this site and projects like Crimson Echoes. We don't have to worry about profit, so we're completely free to only do what's interesting, challenging, or fun.

Rumor 4: "These modders were going to distribute hacked ROMs."

Members of the wider fan modding community will no doubt appreciate the nuance in this accusation. There exists a strict code of honor amongst modders according to which modifications must *never* be distributed as ROMs. Crimson Echoes, like Prophet's Guile before it, would have been distributed as a Lunar IPS patch. Within modding culture this is the acceptable way of going about it, and a plethora of SNES-era mods, first translations, and retranslations have made their way onto the Internet in that form. You will very rarely find a fan modder who distributes full ROMs with the modifications in place, and such modders deserve a proper spanking.

Rumor 5: "These modders were violating Square Enix's copy protection on Chrono Trigger SNES."

We are unaware of any copy protection placed on Chrono Trigger SNES, at least in the sense that the ROM might try to sabotage itself during the backup process (format shifting the game from an SNES cart to a ROM). Such copy protection did exist in Chrono Trigger: DS -- in that case, people who made backups of their game discovered that the game would freeze in an emulator at certain points -- but Crimson Echoes had absolutely nothing to do with CT:DS.

As for whether format shifting itself is considered fair use, Guru of Life Emeritus Geiger reminded us of what's stated in the Electronic Frontier Foundation's Fair Use FAQ: (http://w2.eff.org/IP/eff_fair_use_faq.php)


What's been recognized as fair use?

Courts have previously found that a use was fair where the use of the copyrighted work was socially beneficial. In particular, U.S. courts have recognized the following fair uses: criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, research and parodies.

In addition, in 1984 the Supreme Court held that time-shifting (for example, private, non-commercial home taping of television programs with a VCR to permit later viewing) is fair use. (Sony Corporation of America v. Universal City Studios, 464 U.S. 417 (1984, S.C.)

Although the legal basis is not completely settled, many lawyers believe that the following (and many other uses) are also fair uses:

Space-shifting or format-shifting - that is, taking content you own in one format and putting it into another format, for personal, non-commercial use. For instance, "ripping" an audio CD (that is, making an MP3-format version of an audio CD that you already own) is considered fair use by many lawyers, based on the 1984 Betamax decision and the 1999 Rio MP3 player decision (RIAA v. Diamond Multimedia, 180 F. 3d 1072, 1079, 9th Circ. 1999.)
Making a personal back-up copy of content you own - for instance, burning a copy of an audio CD you own.


Please keep an eye on the Chrono Compendium and crimsonechoes.com for further announcements.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with FW...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: IAmSerge on May 13, 2009, 05:06:57 am

Rumor 2: "These modders were taking donations from fans, and just ran away with the money."

Do you see a Paypal button anywhere on the Chrono Compendium? No? I assure you, the CE team did not receive a penny for its work. This was a non-profit fan project, powered only by sheer love for the Chrono series.

I want to know what fools thought this... and where I can find a link to a place I can beat-em-up for it (jk for that last part)
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with FW...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Ramsus on May 13, 2009, 05:20:36 am
You may also notice this site is one of the few active gaming sites out there that doesn't feature any ads. We've never had any interest in making any money off the site or any of the projects associated with it.

We also turn down offers for free hosting in cases where it might create a conflict of interest or would lead to the introduction of ads.

This attitude holds true for the Crimson Echoes project as well -- no profit, all pain. There's never been any monetary gain to be had out of all this, which keeps our intentions and our direction pure of conflicting interests or artistic compromises, and that's why it's been such a pleasure to work on this site and projects like Crimson Echoes. We don't have to worry about profit, so we're completely free to only do what's interesting, challenging, or fun.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with FW...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: valancedom on May 13, 2009, 10:01:46 am
In contrast to the flaming and the rants seen elsewhere, I decided to examine the context of the Cease and Desist order, and examine the possibility of precedents. While the $150,000 fine sounds quite scary, it is not arbitrary. In cases of willful copyright infringement, with the intent to profit from such a work, and with direct damages shown to the company, there is the possibility of fine. However, in order to do so, the company would first have to prove to a court that A. The project has directly damaged the sales of the game, B. That there was the intent to profit, and C. That the alleged infringement does not fall under the fair use clauses of copyright law, which protects certain derivative works.
The instructions to shut down the parts of the site, in relation to Temporal Flux, are only valid if that section included instructions on the removal of copy protection from the cartridge itself, and under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, would only apply to rom dumping, not the editing of content within the rom. The Act's purpose is to prevent the illegal copying of content, but the act does not apply to the modification of files.
The question of liability in terms of the leaks is questionable. If it is shown that the you, and those whom this letter is specifically addressed to, namely messrs x,y,z... etc are willfully responsible for leaking the content, then if they can prove in court that it was you, you could face a limited fine. If the content was leaked by a beta tester, then they would be held liable as an individual, however your group would not suffer any penalty, unless it was shown that you deliberately and willfully contributed to the leaking of said material. The question of whether their litigation counsel would pursue the case, or any case would be a up to them, and would have to weigh the positive and negative impacts of pursuing such a course of action, as well as the likelihood of winning in the local court for the individual who leaked it, and the legal costs involved as well.
They stand on much better legal ground in terms of preventing you from distributing your project, but the demand to remove the instructions on Temporal Flux has little legal basis on it. While I would advise you to seek free legal counseling, a partial compliance would be the best bet, comply with delaying the release, but I would strongly advise against the destruction of any content. In fact, at this point it might be best for this to actually go to their litigation counsel, who would probably be more likely to listen then the legal team which assembled the letter, which in many companies is at the bottom of the food chain. Again, I cannot state strongly enough how important it is to get free legal counsel, which is offered by several groups including Justice Corps, to name an example in the United States.
It must be kept in mind that copyright law is not internationally universal, and that different countries have different laws in place regarding what constitutes fair use. The letter is legally sound to a point, however one must gain a clear understanding of the situation prior to committing to any action, and requesting a face to face meeting might not be out of the question, and may in fact yield more encouraging results, while in a worst case scenario, the results will be the same as they currently are.

Sincerely,
D.S.
UCLA
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with FW...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: thesnake383 on May 13, 2009, 11:37:51 am
In its current state of 98% complete, can the game be beaten? If so, I look forward to an entire series of videos featuring the entire game.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with FW...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: utunnels on May 13, 2009, 12:02:11 pm
Rumor 1: "Crimson Echoes was a piece of vaporware. The modders made this C&D up because they knew they would never finish something so ambitious!"
This sounds like the most reasonable one...
When JP PMed me on early May about music insertion, I though: wow, they are finally about to finish it!
But then I waited for somedays, no further actions... I began to have a bad feeling that something went wrong.

Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with FW...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 13, 2009, 01:44:40 pm
There were a ton of bugs, and sometimes showstoppers meant footage had to be re-recorded after those were taken care of (I was kind of embarrassed to record Ayla trying to run around on a black screen and failing at one point). However, we have footage from a full playthrough, plus most of the ending IIRC. We caught a few alternate endings on New Game + too, but not all of them. Wish I'd recorded every bit now, but hopefully what we have will convince everyone.

utunnels, the CE team hadn't started at all on music insertion, but I think ZeaLitY, JP, and Chrono'99 had a list of tracks they were interested in seeing put in. Finals preparation really put a damper on most of the team too I bet, which would explain the slowness starting in early May. Even so, May 31 always seemed a very realistic release date.

People have actually thought we were taking donations. I have no clue where that idea came from, but if you guys see any destructive rumors like that from now on, just hand them the link to the first post.
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,7437.msg160941.html#msg160941

We'll add more rumors and rebuttals as we see them, so you can use this thread to report rumors as well.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with FW...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: vicbear on May 13, 2009, 01:55:56 pm
In its current state of 98% complete, can the game be beaten? If so, I look forward to an entire series of videos featuring the entire game.

Hello, I'm new to the forums but I am a frequent visitor of the compendium. I'm really sorry about the events that have transpired and hope the best for the CE team and Compendium staff.

I totally agree with the quote above. Could we get some video footage, or a plot summary, or even the script of the game (as long as it isn't illegal)? At least let the story be told to the world in the form of fan-fiction!
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: odekam on May 14, 2009, 04:14:53 pm
Quote
We are unaware of any copy protection placed on Chrono Trigger SNES, at least in the sense that the ROM might try to sabotage itself during the backup process (format shifting the game from an SNES cart to a ROM). Such copy protection did exist in Chrono Trigger: DS -- in that case, people who made backups of their game discovered that the game would freeze in an emulator at certain points -- but Crimson Echoes had absolutely nothing to do with CT:DS.

As for whether format shifting itself is considered fair use, Guru of Life Emeritus Geiger reminded us of what's stated in the Electronic Frontier Foundation's Fair Use FAQ:


What's been recognized as fair use?

Courts have previously found that a use was fair where the use of the copyrighted work was socially beneficial. In particular, U.S. courts have recognized the following fair uses: criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, research and parodies.

In addition, in 1984 the Supreme Court held that time-shifting (for example, private, non-commercial home taping of television programs with a VCR to permit later viewing) is fair use. (Sony Corporation of America v. Universal City Studios, 464 U.S. 417 (1984, S.C.)

Although the legal basis is not completely settled, many lawyers believe that the following (and many other uses) are also fair uses:


Space-shifting or format-shifting - that is, taking content you own in one format and putting it into another format, for personal, non-commercial use. For instance, "ripping" an audio CD (that is, making an MP3-format version of an audio CD that you already own) is considered fair use by many lawyers, based on the 1984 Betamax decision and the 1999 Rio MP3 player decision (RIAA v. Diamond Multimedia, 180 F. 3d 1072, 1079, 9th Circ. 1999.)
Making a personal back-up copy of content you own - for instance, burning a copy of an audio CD you own.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but according with that, it seems to me that you guys are doing nothing wrong.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 14, 2009, 04:23:19 pm
Now that I take a look at all the facts and the legal theories that are actually out there, I would agree. However, the case:

M. Kramer Manufacturing Company, Inc. v. Andrews (1986)

Would be all that stands against the Compendium. I'm trying to find the language right now in a law database, because it's not easily accessible like Nintendo vs. Galoob. I wonder, now, whether Kramer v. Andrews wouldn't be overturned by Nintendo v. Galoob.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: RySenkari on May 14, 2009, 04:28:36 pm
The thing is that even if you guys know you're right and can release it knowing that you'll win the lawsuit, you'd still have to find someone to fight the lawsuit for you, right? I seem to recall some of you saying that even if you knew you could win, fighting a lawsuit would take a lot of time away from your personal lives... so that'd be where something like the EFF comes in.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: mav on May 14, 2009, 04:33:22 pm
Right, but even if EFF fights for them, it'll still get in the way of their lives. Look at how dealing with the C&D has gotten in the way: it's on their minds constantly, they have to repetitively debunk rumors, they're bombarded with information...it's already gotten in the way and this is just the beginning. As good as advocacy groups like EFF are, they still rely on the people involved.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: odekam on May 14, 2009, 04:34:24 pm
I see... so it would be like... wasting 5 years of hard work, or would be like fighting many years to not waste those 5 years of hard work.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Dark Serge on May 14, 2009, 04:36:32 pm
They owe it to themselves though. While I respect their wish to announce the C&D publicly all over the web, it kind of went over the top. They could have stayed low key and this wouldn't be time consuming at all. As for the lawsuit, you watch too many movies. A lawsuit like that isn't gonna take 5 years. Neither Square Enix, nor the lawyers, nor the judge, nor you want to waste years of your life for a lawsuit about a SNES game mod.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: thesnake383 on May 14, 2009, 04:39:32 pm
The news officially reached Sonic Cult/X-Cult. The word is out all over the net.

This'll be the last time I mention this, but seriously, you ought to finish the hack, and release the patch as a final slap to Square's face.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: KebreI on May 14, 2009, 04:40:40 pm
They are not wasting 5 years of there life guys. If you read the MANY statements from agent12, he never put this as a priority is was something he did when there wasn't other thing to be done. He did this as a hobby, between meetings and such. Not be release is upsetting but nothing was wasted.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 14, 2009, 05:30:45 pm
Just found Kramer vs. Andrews (1986). (http://cases.justia.com/us-court-of-appeals/F2/783/421/41759/)

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I understand of that case, the defendant was modding Kramer's game into something very different but still consisting of the raw materials Kramer provided -- and then replicating and selling the product.

Had Andrews sent a magic monkey to mod all of Kramer's coin-op machines into the new game, and not profited from it, would Kramer have had a case? I tend to think not.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: RySenkari on May 14, 2009, 05:47:38 pm
Not trying to push you all or anything, but what is the approximate percentage chance of Square winning the case that you would need before saying "you don't have a leg to stand on, we're releasing Crimson Echoes anyway"? Would it absolutely have to be 0%, or could it be as high as 1%? I'd think that even a 1% chance of your lives being financially ruined is still too much of a risk to take (I know I wouldn't get on an airplane if I knew there was a 1% chance of it crashing).

And again, even if it was 0%, there's still the factor of your lives being disrupted by fighting the thing. Just another example of how the current copyright/legal system is built to screw the little guy over. :(
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: KebreI on May 14, 2009, 05:48:49 pm
Correct if he just modified or provide instructions for modification the that would be completely legit, I actually did that for my old highschool senior project. I rebuilt, almost from scratch an old arcade machine, but then modded it too run MAME. My project was on the legality of it.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: MDenham on May 14, 2009, 06:40:23 pm
Not trying to push you all or anything, but what is the approximate percentage chance of Square winning the case that you would need before saying "you don't have a leg to stand on, we're releasing Crimson Echoes anyway"? Would it absolutely have to be 0%, or could it be as high as 1%? I'd think that even a 1% chance of your lives being financially ruined is still too much of a risk to take (I know I wouldn't get on an airplane if I knew there was a 1% chance of it crashing).
I don't know that it'd necessarily have to be 0%, but it would definitely have to be less than 1%.

It'd also require a fund for the maximum possible fine to be covered from if it's not 0%, though.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Dark Serge on May 14, 2009, 06:40:34 pm
Not trying to push you all or anything, but what is the approximate percentage chance of Square winning the case that you would need before saying "you don't have a leg to stand on, we're releasing Crimson Echoes anyway"? Would it absolutely have to be 0%, or could it be as high as 1%? I'd think that even a 1% chance of your lives being financially ruined is still too much of a risk to take (I know I wouldn't get on an airplane if I knew there was a 1% chance of it crashing).

And again, even if it was 0%, there's still the factor of your lives being disrupted by fighting the thing. Just another example of how the current copyright/legal system is built to screw the little guy over. :(

1. This is impossible to say

2. This is ridicilous. Square will always have a chance of winning, no matter what. You can't go into court think "hmmm I'm definitely gonna win no matter what". It's a risk you need to be willing to take. If I had the money, I would be willing to take it. If I would have worked on Crimson Echoes for a long time, I would be willing to take it (also because my college teachers would support me, and grant me free time off school for it), but still, it's your decision to make.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: RySenkari on May 14, 2009, 06:43:46 pm
Such a fund would require donations, though, and that would raise the specter of Square claiming that this was a for-profit project (even when all the so-called "profit" would be going to pay Square and the lawyers). Plus the issue that the people on Chrono Compendium don't want to ask for donations even if the fans would be willing to donate.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 14, 2009, 06:47:26 pm
The Chrono Compendium will take absolutely NO donations, even at this time. Don't even suggest that, and I think the other admins will readily agree.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Rickets on May 14, 2009, 09:34:26 pm
Any updates? Are you guys still looking for legal advise? What can we do to help again? I can ask around to see if I know someone who knows someone...
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 14, 2009, 10:02:32 pm
Keep checking in at the Compendium for further updates. Sorry, that's all we're at liberty to say at this point. We're extremely grateful for your support.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: RySenkari on May 14, 2009, 11:50:32 pm
From what you just said, it seems like there's either been a breakthrough or it's all over.

...actually, that's what I probably figured already XD

And now we play the waiting game...

Waiting game sucks, how 'bout Hungry Hungry Hippos?
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: odekam on May 15, 2009, 01:19:49 am
Hey... did you guys know about this? http://savecrimsonechoes.com/phpPETITION/index.php
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Shinkinrui on May 15, 2009, 01:37:40 am
Er, isn't a petition supposed to be an appeal to someone to change something?

That's just a page with a header that says "Save Crimson Echoes" and the text from crimsonechoes.com copied and pasted into the body. There's no stated goal, or even info on who the petition is addressed to. I guess it's a nice sentiment nonetheless, but petitions are not generally very effective in these situations.

Anyway ... If there is still some kind of activity going on behind the scenes in regards to CE, I hope we hear word soon. Good luck :)

Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: KebreI on May 15, 2009, 01:40:01 am
Hey... did you guys know about this? http://savecrimsonechoes.com/phpPETITION/index.php
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,7432.0.html
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: IAmSerge on May 15, 2009, 01:49:01 am
personally, I am now kinda against CE being released with such a fanfare...

...I mean, SE didn't want it to come out because it was so much like an actual sequel that many people would consider it canon...

...but now with the C&D, they really just dug themselves into a deeper hole (if CE stands its ground)
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 15, 2009, 01:58:31 am
CE starts with a disclaimer that it is not canon, but rather a form of fan fiction.

As for the petition referred to, everyone's welcome to make suggestions regarding the petition language in the petition webmaster's thread, to which Kebrel provided a link. The Compendium does not officially support petitions, so the language is in the wider fan community's domain, and the petition webmaster ultimately has the most say in adopting any language that might be proposed.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Mikisho on May 15, 2009, 02:00:44 am
Square doesn't know that, and if they do, they probably don't care.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 15, 2009, 02:01:43 am
They will know when we begin uploading footage at least. As for whether they will care...that's for the waiting game to answer.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: IAmSerge on May 15, 2009, 02:02:34 am
CE starts with a disclaimer that it is not canon, but rather a form of fan fiction.

I understand that completely, however with its major publicity and it being well known and accepted as an amazing fan work, it would see that the line between canon and fiction would be blurred even more.  Atleast, to me it would be.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: V_Translanka on May 15, 2009, 03:03:17 am
While it used canon at several points to connect the dots, I don't think it should have been seen as canon any more than other fan creations...I mean, that's what the purpose of the Compendium sort of is, the analysis is helpful for fans to understand the canon more clearly in order to more properly (/accurately) conduct fan works...
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Mikisho on May 15, 2009, 03:28:45 am
You know, I wonder if uploading footage would be such a good idea for everyone in the long run...  I mean, in a way I think it would be better if we knew nothing.  If we see footage, it will make us want to play the game that much more, making us more depressed if anything.  Also I watched the trailer the other day....  Is Flea the added character?  I felt like taking a shot in the water.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: IAmSerge on May 15, 2009, 03:39:29 am
its just that the game is so well made that it feels more real than it does fake... ya know?
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: V_Translanka on May 15, 2009, 03:58:55 am
You know, I wonder if uploading footage would be such a good idea for everyone in the long run...  I mean, in a way I think it would be better if we knew nothing.  If we see footage, it will make us want to play the game that much more, making us more depressed if anything. 

No one's going to force you to watch it. ;)
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: mav on May 15, 2009, 12:30:33 pm
You know, I wonder if uploading footage would be such a good idea for everyone in the long run...  I mean, in a way I think it would be better if we knew nothing.  If we see footage, it will make us want to play the game that much more, making us more depressed if anything. 

No one's going to force you to watch it. ;)
What he said.

Oh and doesn't the word canon kind of stand in opposition to fanworks? Although the CE team is using the analysis here to fit the game between CT and CC, that doesn't mean it's canon, it just means it's a more accurate piece of fandom. 
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: HadesKane on May 15, 2009, 05:07:08 pm
Despite having had no interest in this release whatsoever, I really hate seeing it end this way and my best wishes go out to anyone who was involved in this project.

I've grown increasingly more concerned with fan projects making a big deal prior to their release.  I wonder how matters might have progressed had the old CT remake, and something like CE been completed prior to any publicity, and basically quietly released.

I also wonder how much ground they have to stand on in regards to CE basically just being a patch, but I'm not really qualified to really give any sort of opinion on that one way or the other.

This ordeal, however, does make me a bit more concerned and rethinking my attitude that fan works that don't seek to exhaustively recreate one of Square's games and that don't pose any sort of threat are under the radar and fall under the general umbrella of fan works that most companies don't seem to mind.

You see, I've been working on my own "fan project" for several years now.  It is predominately based on Final Fantasy, but there is significant Chrono influence throughout.  Some of the major systems are highly influenced by Chrono systems, and about 25% of the game world is directly influenced by areas from Chrono Trigger and Cross.  The game is a MUD (Multi-User Dungeon) which is basically a text-based, online, roleplaying game.  Without any direct graphical elements and everything done through descriptions, I hope we're fine, but I'm growing increasingly more concerned.  I've started compiling a list of terms in order to switch Square copyright terms over to if there ever ends up being a problem.  It also gives me pause on how 'known' I would like my project to be.  Obviously, the more known we are, the more players we are and the more successful the game is, but... the more likely we'll be noticed and shut down.

So yeah, as someone who has spent years working on a project out of love for the games they've provided us with, I can certainly sympathize with what you guys are going through.

Good luck moving forward.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Onikage725 on May 15, 2009, 07:02:03 pm
I really don't think SE cares about canon perception. I think it is simply that they happened to catch this right before release, and want to make their stance clear. I also think they misunderstand the nature of the TF and kinda went into a blind panic (maybe they thought this was a CT:DS hack, at that).

Or, to put another way- if they were *that* upset about canon perception, or really that upset in general, wouldn't they have pressed charges for Prophet's Guile? They're kinda making an example out of CE, because that was just about to be released. But the early CE demo is still floating around the net, as is PG.

BTW- to the mods and CE development team- I know a few forums where people share packs of roms, and (without naming names) one of them had one of those "every game!" kind of packs that had PG in its list. Not uncommon for fan hacks to get grouped in with those, but I'll send a friendly note to the uploader (and any others I see) that they should take that down. Or if you guys want to know where it is I'm talking about, PM or email me.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Acacia Sgt on May 15, 2009, 07:10:40 pm
Now that reminded me, the 'List of the Best Rom hacks!' thread has downloads for PG, the retranslation, and others. And still working apparently.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: phelph on May 15, 2009, 08:14:28 pm
Whered that fake email go that used to be on the "C&D"....?

come on guys.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 15, 2009, 08:29:26 pm
Reviewing the copy of the C&D order that I downloaded when it hit, I can find no email. The header of the email to which it was attached has been provided elsewhere, but much as I dislike how we were treated over there, I'm not about to invite Square Enix to scrutinize other fan modding sites. You might find it via a Google search.

Believe me, I had to have some very painful conversations with long-time friends to prove to myself that this was not some kind of inside job. I am fully convinced that this is real, and until we receive an official overture from Square Enix, I can only ask that you take us at our word.

Furthermore, I'd like to point out that Square Enix can't very well just stay silent on this matter while the firestorm spreads across the Internet; they have to cover themselves from the fallout too, and I'm sure they'll say something sooner rather than never.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: phelph on May 15, 2009, 08:42:19 pm
yeah right, very lame.

Quote
Believe me, I had to have some very painful conversations with long-time friends to prove to myself that this was not some kind of inside job

somthing tells me that wouldnt be an issue with longtime friends unless somthing was severely fishy. And very very lame.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Shee on May 15, 2009, 08:43:45 pm
So I live near the famed Sepulveda Blvd. that is on the address of the letter.  Chances of me going in person to represent the Compendium and it actually helps the situation being...

1/10?

1/1000000?

Just a random/desperate thought.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Agent 12 on May 15, 2009, 08:48:51 pm
phelph, we removed the address because it seems to only accept emails from people who they want to receive emails from.  However, you can call the front desk and confirm that we received the C&D.  The receptionist answers very promptly and can confirm and if you don't believe the receptionist she can transfer you to the PR representative. 

The phone number is pretty easily verified on the web if you think it's a fake phone number as well.

--JP
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: phelph on May 15, 2009, 08:51:00 pm
wow thats not true. It was just a fake email address. And if you emailed it you got a message back from their server that there was no such email address.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Agent 12 on May 15, 2009, 08:53:49 pm
sigh, I won't respond after this, but like I said.....you can call them it literally takes about 15 seconds.

Anyways incase anyone thinks we are like censoring or anything here's the address it came from.  Emailing it doesn't really resolve anything, you really do get a bounce I confirmed it after the uproar on romhacking.net about it:

na.legal@square-enix.com

We are hoping for a more public official reply from SE about it.  There isn't any good reason for us to fake this.....


--JP
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: phelph on May 15, 2009, 08:57:16 pm
Well theres certainly no ~good~ reason.
And for passer-bys, also send a message to ahsjfhagjhsjdhgsjgh@square-enix.com and notice you get the exact same message back as the supposed email this came from (but was since deleted).
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 15, 2009, 09:22:24 pm
Hah, I really don't see any email in my copy of the C&D. I must have gotten to downloading it later in the game than I thought.

Quote from: phelph
somthing tells me that wouldnt be an issue with longtime friends unless somthing was severely fishy. And very very lame.
Listen, I had a personal stake in this because, as tangentially involved in Crimson Echoes as I was, that's still where quite a bit of my free time this semester went. Not to mention, a lot of fans had their hopes pinned on the prospect of a well-done spiritual sequel to Chrono Trigger. If there was the slightest chance of this being some kind of advertising ploy, I wanted to know, and I felt truth was worth getting at, even at the cost of potentially offending my cohorts. And that was effing painful, because the one person I thought could possibly have had the intelligence and fortitude to carry out something like that is the one who welcomed me into this community with open arms and made me feel like I could actually do something magnanimous with my skillset.

With the necessary internal investigation over, I am 100% confident that this is real, phelph, and you will find out for sure yourself just as soon as Square Enix feels the time is ripe for some kind of further communication with the Compendium. I refuse to believe that Square will just remain silent when it's got a boatload of bad press exploding right in its face. Until then, all we can do is wait and dispel rumors.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: mav on May 15, 2009, 09:35:41 pm
Well theres certainly no ~good~ reason.
And for passer-bys, also send a message to ahsjfhagjhsjdhgsjgh@square-enix.com and notice you get the exact same message back as the supposed email this came from (but was since deleted).
If you really want to know if this is legit, then for fuck's sake, call the number--SE has confirmed the C&D. A ton of people have pointed to the "broken" email as "proof" that there's some conspiracy going on, but not enough of 'em have called the number. Once you get patched through, ask about the C&D, if you get something contrary to what the admins have gotten, then post it.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: OverlordMikey on May 15, 2009, 11:06:31 pm
You know what I find "lame"  the shear number (even one is to many) of people who seem to sign up just to say they think this is a hoax or the people who worked on it are lying. Well I have no problem with people lurking around a board, you have the nerve to just sign up to a board so you can call someone a liar. Well it's true they haven't invested their lives into this they still put their free time into this and you have the nerve to say they would wile up their friends and fellow board members about the progress and then just lie to them about. These arn't the kinds of people who would go set a release date just to pull something like this. These aren’t the kind of people who go around trying to (forgive my rude language) piss on SquareEnix's reputation either so I see no motive for them to lie. In other words DROP IT. This isn’t a hoax or a lie, if your going to sign up to share your opinion make sure it's not a half assed one that you didn't put one lick of thought into.
I'm sorry I'm not normally like this.  :(  I hope I haven't offended anyone to badly. I'm sorry.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Boo the Gentleman Caller on May 15, 2009, 11:25:46 pm
Gosh, if you think it's a joke freaking find the number for Square Enix NA and call them.

I would post the phone number myself if I wasn't afraid people would accuse me of lying.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Ramsus on May 15, 2009, 11:52:41 pm
Well theres certainly no ~good~ reason.
And for passer-bys, also send a message to ahsjfhagjhsjdhgsjgh@square-enix.com and notice you get the exact same message back as the supposed email this came from (but was since deleted).

I bet if everyone sent enough e-mails to na.jobs@square-enix.com, then they'd probably start getting the same message eventually, and that's an address straight from their website.

It's not like e-mail addresses are set in stone either. Do you know how long it takes to reconfigure a mailserver? You could do it in a couple of seconds if you wanted to, and still accept e-mails from a whitelist of accepted From addresses.

I will say this though -- the e-mail accompanying the C&D letter was routed through Square-Enix's mailserver. This is based on the IP address in the headers as recorded by GMail's mailserver at the time the e-mail was transferred.

Spoofed e-mail stand out because they usually still contain the real IP addresses of the server sending it, even if the rest of the information is fake. A quick check of the IP addresses usually reveals the e-mail came from China or Russia, but in this case it comes straight from Square-Enix's mailserver.

Of course, someone could've hacked Square-Enix's network and can send e-mail through their mailserver -- after all, a lot of mailservers are notoriously insecure, but what do you think is more likely here?

You'll probably just say that the e-mail never existed and that the C&D and maybe even game itself is fake, but you better be willing to come back here and admit that you were wrong if the game ever leaks or we release enough footage to convince you that it's real, or this elevates to a real legal battle with Square Enix. But you won't. You'll only call your shots when there's nothing anybody can do about it to prove you wrong, talk all big and pretend to be the smart one, and when it turns out that you are wrong, you'll flee and hide, and never mention it again.

Asshole.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: phelph on May 16, 2009, 12:10:40 am
Oh if it makes you feel better il come back and comment on any further developments, whether im wrong or not. I wish the project the best; but it just doesnt all add up yet (if square really wrote that, its a poor C&D).

I've left messages and am trying to get a word from square too. But all we can do is wait.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 16, 2009, 12:16:19 am
I see we have an understanding then. Yes, the full factual truth will be revealed in time.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: utunnels on May 16, 2009, 12:36:21 am
Well, instead of a logical analysis of whether it is fake or not, I'd just say, is there a motive behind this if it is all fake?
I don't think anyone could receive benefits from this. Sensationalization of the website? No, they destroyed many of the attractive materials on the site just to attract public attentions? If so, they have to make another fake news that they receive permission from SE so that they can put those things back.  :picardno
And about CE itself, it was already beta-testable, so the supposition that they could never finish and release is nonsense.

If I think it is fake, I will just humph and leave, there's no good to waste my time arguing with a group of liars. :lol:
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Ramsus on May 16, 2009, 12:43:50 am
Oh if it makes you feel better il come back and comment on any further developments, whether im wrong or not. I wish the project the best; but it just doesnt all add up yet (if square really wrote that, its a poor C&D).

I've left messages and am trying to get a word from square too. But all we can do is wait.

My apologies for the harshness then. I can understand questioning the veracity of the C&D letter and its source, but there's been a lot of doubters and asshats who think they know a thing or two because some other projects have been fakes that never delivered and now think this is another one of those, and so they feel free to jump to conclusions.

Which hurts a little when you've seen what people have gone through to make this game a reality, and you've even played it and shown it to a few people, but now your hands are tied so you can't just show these doubters how wrong they are.

But whatever. You probably won't do anything to help the situation once you've satisfied your own doubts. You'll just admit you're wrong, post another anecdote that nobody will care to listen to, and slip away. And if you fail to satisfy your own doubts, even if it's just because not enough information can be disclosed by any of the involved parties at this point, you'll come back that much surer of yourself.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: phelph on May 16, 2009, 01:15:06 am
Oh oh, and to clarify, i was never one of the "doubters" who thought the project didnt exist or wasnt really close to completion. I simply doubt the C&D, and am not sure why it would be hoaxed. My preferred thought is that its still going to be released at the planned date and this was a (poorly conceived) plan to drum up interest in the final few weeks (and other projects have done this as well).

But will just have to wait till things clear up.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Ramsus on May 16, 2009, 01:31:16 am
Oh oh, and to clarify, i was never one of the "doubters" who thought the project didnt exist or wasnt really close to completion. I simply doubt the C&D, and am not sure why it would be hoaxed. My preferred thought is that its still going to be released at the planned date and this was a (poorly conceived) plan to drum up interest in the final few weeks (and other projects have done this as well).

But will just have to wait till things clear up.

So when May 31st rolls by, and we're still stuck with our hands tied unable to release anything, what then?

If this were a publicity stunt, we'd still be finishing the last 2%, don't you think? However, all work has stopped, since nobody has access to the game. Even if we hadn't complied with the letter, all the people who were working on it are too caught up dealing with Square Enix to have time to do anything. Just ask the beta testers.

Sorry, but wishful thinking just gets in the way of reality.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 16, 2009, 01:57:46 am
For what it's worth, I imagine Square might have been within its rights to sue us for defamation or something, given the fallout, if this were just a publicity stunt. That would be taking a huge risk, not to mention all the fellow Chrono fans being royally pissed off because their heartstrings were plucked and torn for no reason.

I think we've all gone through a sort of grieving process here, and during that process there's a phase when we question whether this could actually happen. And then, given enough time to consider everything, each of us realizes that this is cold, hard reality.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Shinkinrui on May 16, 2009, 02:07:57 am
For the record, I believe the C&D is genuine and it upsets me. SE seems to be misunderstanding a couple things about CE and Temporal Flux.

Having said that, has anyone had any real contact with the PR person the receptionist is supposed to transfer people to? Part of me wonders if they're just monitoring that voice mailbox to estimate the "real" impact on the general public's opinion of them. I wonder if anyone besides a known member of the media will even get a call back.

Oh, one more point I want to make: A copy of the Chrono Trigger SNES ROM image is readily available on retail copies of the Playstation release "Final Fantasy Chronicles." Just pop the Chrono Trigger CD into your computer and look for the file "ROM.BIN". You don't even need to do anything special, you can just copy it right off the CD. What copy protection?
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 16, 2009, 02:22:07 am
Is that the English ROM on the US/English copy of Final Fantasy Chronicles I wonder, or was it the Japanese ROM on all releases? Yeah, the copy protection argument is so much easier to dispel for Playstation-era games, since you can copy the data onto your hard drive with minimal trouble.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Shinkinrui on May 16, 2009, 02:33:24 am
Just ran it in SNES9X, it is the Japanese version. Damn, I guess CE was made to be applied to an English ROM, huh?
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Mikisho on May 16, 2009, 02:38:09 am
So, when abouts do you think Square would make an anouncement for something like this.  I mean, this has gotta be the biggest fallout from any C&D they've ever given, and probably weren't expecting it.  If this keeps up Square will definitley have to do something.  The very least is make the C&D known for sure to the public.  So any ideas when abouts all this might happen?
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 16, 2009, 02:45:23 am
We'll have to sit tight Mikisho. Within a corporation I'm sure everything has to trickle through various official channels, whereas we teens and twenty-somethings can just IM and get things done in minutes.

Shinkinrui, that is correct.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: utunnels on May 16, 2009, 02:46:00 am
Just ran it in SNES9X, it is the Japanese version. Damn, I guess CE was made to be applied to an English ROM, huh?
A CT psx CD also contains a snes ROM, doesn't it? It seems including a snes rom is a quite common method they used in a psx remake, maybe they used the rom as a bank to store those variants, so they did't need to code another one.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Shinkinrui on May 16, 2009, 02:53:09 am
I'm pretty sure they'd already have told us if they knew, Mikisho. Sounds like the only communication they've had is the letter and the mysterious phone calls to the SE legal department. They already said they couldn't say what was discussed in those phone calls, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and predict that all the call really amounted to was SE saying something like "We'll review the matter further and tell you if our position changes."

I'm impatient for more news too, but it looks like we can only play the waiting game at this point :(

@utunnels: Yeah, that's what we were just talking about. "Final Fantasy Chronicles" includes FF4 and CT. The SNES ROM image on the Chrono Trigger disc is a copy of the SNES version of Chrono Trigger. I'm pretty sure the ROM was just present to pull the graphics or other data from. Made the game run slower than molasses, too XD

Thanks for your continuing communication with everyone about this, CE team.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 16, 2009, 03:02:41 am
Yeah, it's just too bad we can't say much more than "Hey everyone! Here's a great idea! Let's wait and see!" But that's literally all that can be done at this point. Rest assured a new post will fly right onto the frontpage as soon as Square Enix makes a statement regarding the situation.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Shee on May 16, 2009, 03:32:45 am
Do we know that a statement is going to be released?  Or is it more of just an assumption?
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 16, 2009, 03:46:38 am
More of an assumption at this point Shee.

Although...you being the closest to Square Enix USA headquarters than any of us...you could always pay them a visit and ask firsthand.  :D

But really, they've gotta say something sooner or later. The mouse roared, and now the lion is figuring out the best course of action in this (probably) unpredicted scenario.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: OverlordMikey on May 16, 2009, 03:51:37 am
Perhaps we could start a letter writing campain. A POLITE letter writing compain. If everyone writes one I'm sure we can break through to them. I don't mean a petion by the way, I mean each and everyone one of us sending our own personal feelings in the form of wrtten word.

It couldn't hurt. I mean they are still human, the raw emotion alone may effect them.....I hope -_-'

Does anyone know what adress we could send them to? (Maybe a letter for teh american and japanese branch, just to be safe. ^.^)
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: mav on May 16, 2009, 10:13:53 am
999 Sepulveda Blvd. Third Floor
El Segundo, CA 90245
That's the American Customer Warranty address...

Shinjuku Bunka Quint Bldg. 3-22-7 Yoyogi, Shibuya-ku
Tokyo 151-8544, Japan
That's an address I found on their business profile (http://biz.yahoo.com/ic/108/108316.html).


A letter writing campaign is a good idea, but it might not be as feasible: it can become costly, and may need some serious regulating.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: OverlordMikey on May 16, 2009, 12:25:19 pm
999 Sepulveda Blvd. Third Floor
El Segundo, CA 90245
That's the American Customer Warranty address...

Shinjuku Bunka Quint Bldg. 3-22-7 Yoyogi, Shibuya-ku
Tokyo 151-8544, Japan
That's an address I found on their business profile (http://biz.yahoo.com/ic/108/108316.html).


A letter writing campaign is a good idea, but it might not be as feasible: it can become costly, and may need some serious regulating.

You have a point. Perhaps someone should make a separate post to discuss the issue? I personally think everyone writing a letter would be more powerful then a petition (especially of the online variety) because one petition can be faked easily and petitions are easier to ignore then hundreds upon hundreds of letters.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: teaflower on May 16, 2009, 12:44:43 pm
I'm in full support of a letter writing campaign. Hand written letters, painstakingly scrawled out on simple lined notebook paper, pleading with SE to change their minds... that invokes emotion, but it also seems highly unprofessional. Yet millions of papers, formally addressed, neatly typed in Times New Roman 12 pt., block formating... that seems hollow. And like it could be robotic.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: OverlordMikey on May 16, 2009, 01:25:08 pm
I'm in full support of a letter writing campaign. Hand written letters, painstakingly scrawled out on simple lined notebook paper, pleading with SE to change their minds... that invokes emotion, but it also seems highly unprofessional. Yet millions of papers, formally addressed, neatly typed in Times New Roman 12 pt., block formating... that seems hollow. And like it could be robotic.


I say we go with hand written. In the long run we need to appeal to their humanity. Unprofessional in this case it the way to go since in all honesty by the defintion of the word we are not professional. If we do this together then the collective power of our dream can create a brighter future. Don't make me say it....fine whatever we'll call it the Power of Love...our love for Chrono!
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Mr Bekkler on May 16, 2009, 01:50:15 pm
If we all got together and sent them a check for a penny in the mail, then requested a refund, we could bankrupt SE America in postage!

It's worked before.



But really, I think everybody is showing (indirect) signs of the five stages of loss. The first is denial, the second is anger, and most of these pages here show a lot of that. Try to get past it or at least repress it so we can at least look professional as a community if SE happens to grace these forums.

I know, we already lost CT Resurrection, Crimson Echoes, Chrono Crisis, Chrono Ark (still to be made, just not as a chrono game), Playable Schala, CT Plus, 8th character mod, Prophet's Guile, and probably a couple others I'm guessing. Not all of it is because of SE, but most of it is, and it's understandable that our anger and other emotions would be directed toward them.

I'm not saying don't be angry. I'm saying use that energy creatively. Leave fifty phone messages till they can't get any messages from their clients. Don't cuss or yell or scream, just leave them nice, polite, NUMEROUS phone messages. Write annoyingly large amounts of letters and send them all at once. Literally flood their input till they have to OUTPUT something. It's better than staying here and complaining. We deserve an answer after all the money we've collectively poured into SE.

Why can't we have our fun? We already paid for it. Four times (CT SNES, CT FFC, CT DS, CC). Five, if you count the playstation greatest hits releases. Why would anybody be interested in a fanmade sequel if they hadn't played and fallen in love with the official original game? These are questions we should be asking them, not is a C&D (that was already confirmed) real. Ask them why they do this repeatedly to their fans, why they feel threatened just because their products inspire their customers. Ask them if they know that CE was a patch and not a rom. Ask if they know that it actually advertised for CTDS FOR THEM FOR FREE. Ask if they know that many people bought CTDS because of the Compendium, and would never have even known about it if this site and the people who made that little patch were never here.

But don't swear, and don't use CAPITAL LETTER YELLING, and please check your spelling and grammar so we don't all look like dolts.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Belthasar on May 16, 2009, 01:56:23 pm
I have a feeling that they actually did not expect this so they are trying to figure out what to do :lol: Honestly though there is a lot we can do, the question is what should we do besides waiting?
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: V_Translanka on May 16, 2009, 02:05:36 pm
How about a non-ROM hack fan project (right after everyone stops asking if CE will be made into a fanfic)?
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Mr Bekkler on May 16, 2009, 02:14:27 pm
What about a non-rom hack fan project right now?  :wink:

I don't have anything finished but I definitely have ideas and ways to go around copyright (renaming small things and making new sprites and music). Who wants to start one?
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: desrever on May 16, 2009, 02:37:21 pm
I would've liked to make a game based on that little fanfic I wrote, but I'm not good with writing, sprite making, or music production.  :(
Sorry to disappoint....
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: mav on May 16, 2009, 04:24:45 pm
What about a non-rom hack fan project right now?  :wink:

I don't have anything finished but I definitely have ideas and ways to go around copyright (renaming small things and making new sprites and music). Who wants to start one?
Years of dedication, here we come!
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Mr Bekkler on May 16, 2009, 04:41:11 pm
What about a non-rom hack fan project right now?  :wink:

I don't have anything finished but I definitely have ideas and ways to go around copyright (renaming small things and making new sprites and music). Who wants to start one?
Years of dedication, here we come!

 :lol: Exactly.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: desrever on May 16, 2009, 04:56:05 pm
You know what? I'm sick of just sitting around and whining. I'm gonna make my game, and it'll be TEH BEST EVA!!!!

See ya later.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Dark Serge on May 16, 2009, 05:17:44 pm
What about a non-rom hack fan project right now?  :wink:

I don't have anything finished but I definitely have ideas and ways to go around copyright (renaming small things and making new sprites and music). Who wants to start one?

Dude, give it up. By the time you get into actual development, Ark and Crisis will be ahead of you and close to a release, and your project won't be all that popular anymore. Besides, doing all this requires years of dedication even with skilled people, and next year around this time you probably don't care a lot for it anymore.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: KebreI on May 16, 2009, 05:29:48 pm
Mr Bekkler you have my full support on a go ahead, if it helps the community then I'm for it. A project is a huge goal though. Dark Serge is right though, it's pointless if your not fully dedicated, so are you dedicated?
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: mav on May 16, 2009, 06:05:42 pm
If you recall, the guys working on CE weren't all that dedicated in the beginning, but look at how far they went.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Mikisho on May 16, 2009, 06:32:13 pm
I suppose I could help.  I can write a story, or some dialogue, or check spelling....  Yeah I'm more of a plot guy.  Not a very artistic mind >_>
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: odekam on May 16, 2009, 07:51:53 pm
You know, with this I get the impression that we should live in fear... not talk anything about the game... just spoilers and "Wow! this is the best game ever!!!"
Damn, we are fans!!!!!!!!! If I had the talent to draw, I would've done a lot of drawings of Trigger, Cross and others games that I like.
If I had the talent to program games, I would've done a lot of fan games, mods, hacks for me and for people like me, who enjoy the same game.
In orther words... all that I would be doing is to show how I like the game! That would my way to show my passion and love for the game!

But hey, all that is against the law.

This is all wrong. Shoudn't be like this. We were supposedly to be talking about "ZOMG, when CE will be released?" "I can't wait!" "I wanna play so bad this game!" and not "C&D letter" "CE no more" "No more  ANY chrono fan game"

Y'know, I really understand SE about CT:R, 3D and stuff, but THIS GAME!? I'm sorry but I can't understand.

I was waiting this game for a very long time! Really. I even dreamed about playing CE on my netbook. God****, I still wanna play so bad this game! I can't just say "Oh, CE got a C&D. All right, let me see another game." C'mon man, i've had hope and I still have hope that EVERYONE here will, someday, play this game. Like Stewie said: "Not now... BUT SOON!"

My dream, our dream, is alive.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Belthasar on May 16, 2009, 08:06:00 pm
Perhaps SE should take a page from Bethesda Studios and Lion head by providing or at least  allow modding of their games by fans who aren't looking for profit.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Dark Serge on May 16, 2009, 08:09:47 pm
You know, I think what Square Enix cares most about is other people getting credit off their franchises and copyrights. They don't want the fans to kiss the asses of some amateurs who've made a mod, especially not if it's better then what they come up with. They don't want people to go "Oh wow, look at that awesome group of fans who made Crimson Echoes! They are way better then Square!".

About the drawing thing, talent has nothing to do with it really. I never could draw back in the past, but now I can draw decent characters in Photoshop. I never could program in the past, but I'm getting pretty good in two different programming languages about now.

Just study, learn, and experiment.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: odekam on May 16, 2009, 08:24:24 pm
Yeah, i know that. It's just a habit. The more you exercise, the better you'll be. But what I'm saying is that there's no use to use all that, drawing and programing, because all that IS against the law. What I'm saying is that you can't show your passion and love doing this. For them, showing your passion and love is buying the game and tell others people to do the same.  :(
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: KebreI on May 16, 2009, 08:53:45 pm
People please! will you stop your god forsaken bitching! None of it helping in the slightest,  Fan art, fan fiction, tribute videos are all still perfectly A-OK by SquareEnix. You don't get to play CE at the moment, still if you must vent WRITE A GOD DAMN LETTER. It is an amazing way to pour out the hostility, regaurdless of how crappy a writer you are. If the fan could do anything to grab SE attention other then a full boycott its thousands of letters from all around.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Dark Serge on May 16, 2009, 09:14:52 pm
Letters like that probably go straight to the recycle bin
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: KebreI on May 16, 2009, 09:43:28 pm
Unlike ranting online, it effect SE though. The great thing about a letter is that they are all looked at, if only by some letter sorter, a sudden influx of letter does have an impact on a company no matter how large. Just ask Marvel.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Mikisho on May 16, 2009, 10:42:56 pm
odekam, I understand where you are coming from...  and KebreI was slightly outta line swearing like that (Only slightly though...  I will still allow it lol xD) But honestly, people have been coming in here since saturday, wave after wave of people, to say basically the same thing you have said.  So in the politest way I can, I am going to say, please contribute to a possible solution (honestly anything plausible could potentially help us in the long run) or just say nothing at all.  We know people wanted to play this game, and we know what the thoughts of the majority are.  We don't 10+ people a day coming in a stating the exact same thing.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: RySenkari on May 16, 2009, 10:46:03 pm
Could a possible solution perhaps be a settlement allowing CE to be released WITH a bunch of Square Enix ads? Perhaps on chronocompedium, maybe in-game (inserted randomly in dialogue)? It's a corporate sell-out solution but if it allows the game to be completed and released, I'm all for it. I wouldn't mind a bunch of banner/pop-up ads for Dragon Quest IX on here for the next few months.

Of course, whether or not that would be agreeable to the actual owners of this site is another question entirely.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Mr Bekkler on May 16, 2009, 11:40:42 pm
I am ready to make a game. I don't care about popularity, just fun. If anybody is serious about helping with that PM me and we'll see what we can do. I'd need a writer, cause I tried and failed. I can write, but apparently not video games. I would need a mapper, maybe a spriter (I'm gonna try out what I got tonight) and an editor for both the written script and the event scripts. Again, if you're serious, PM me. I'm not going to say anything else here, as this is not Kajar at all.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: odekam on May 17, 2009, 12:04:32 am
Thank you, Mikisho. I really understand what you said, and I think you're right... I just needed to say it, because there was no other place. About the solution, I am still working on it, like everyone else, I think. If I found something, I'll tell to you guys.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Onikage725 on May 17, 2009, 12:06:41 am
Perhaps SE should take a page from Bethesda Studios and Lion head by providing or at least  allow modding of their games by fans who aren't looking for profit.

Y'know, I think that's probably what doesn't sit right with me about this. I haven't really been able to put a finger on it, but SE's reaction, while within their rights, just seems kind of old-school. Like a grumpy old grandpa shooing kids off his lawn. Maybe because I upgraded my computer setup and have been getting more into the PC gaming scene, or because I've been semi-active in communities like Left 4 Dead and Fallout 3, but getting huffy over a fan mod or unnofficial "story" content is just weird to me. There's a restoration patch to bring in content that didn't make the final cut in Knights of the Old Republic 2, and similar patches for Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines. Starcraft sees custom maps (with event and story triggers possible) shared freely over Blizzard's own servers. And those are just a handful of examples.

That's kind of why I hope that this is simply a misconception, and SE thought that hacked copies of the ROM (or worse, CT DS) were being distributed. Otherwise, it seems very short-sighted. In fact, if there's a serious letter-writing campaign, maybe I'll use my above paragraph as an outline of talking points. A number of the games and companies one could site that treats their fan-community well are putting out best-selling content.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Megamanx on May 17, 2009, 01:39:12 am
So in the politest way I can, I am going to say, please contribute to a possible solution (honestly anything plausible could potentially help us in the long run) or just say nothing at all.

I am pretty sure the solution - for now - is that we just chill and wait,  Much like Faust as well as other "higher ups" have said.  As much as we all want to be the one that finds that loophole that allows them to release CE, or be the person that sparks a toppling of the mighty and evil superpower that is square-enix, there is no real solution if square never gives a follow-up explanation of the C&D.  As it stands, NOTHING is going to be, or even can be done.  That can all change, sure, but it is in their hands now.  We can vent, sure, we can try to come up with all kinds of grand schemes, sure, but in the end, its in square-enix' and to a smaller extent the project leaders hands.   

WARNING - SLIGHT VENTING - Unless they have a change of heart, which I find VERY unlikely, we might not get much other then a video recap of the game (I should add, I would love to see that).  I am sure everyone else thats ever received a C&D from square-enix has tried to get a better explanation or they have tried to fight it, but has anyone heard a success story?  I am in not way doubting the compendiums people.  As far as I am concerned we're all here because we love the chrono series, so we all want the same thing... we're on the same team.  What I doubt is square's remorse.  even if all of us here threatened to stop buying their products, they stand to lose, what, a couple thousand dollars?  That, to square, is about the same as me dropping a penny on the floor.  Shit, I never even bother to pick them up... Just like I don't feel like square will bother to do the smart thing and pick up their penny.  That's enough negativity though... I really do hope something gets resolved.  Even if they return our messages and further explain why they distributed the C&D, and refuse to lift it.

I just want some closure, as a lot of us do, and in time, I am sure we will get just that - so, the waiting game ensues.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: DBoruta on May 17, 2009, 10:59:00 am
Here's a solution to hit SE where it hurts:  Boycott all their games from now on and let them know you're boycotting their games, especially FFXIII and FFvsXIII.  Get enough people writing in to SE that they aren't going to buy any SE games anymore, especially FF, and SE will listen.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: V_Translanka on May 17, 2009, 12:42:14 pm
Boycott! If only someone had thought of it sooner! If people just regularly didn't buy games that sucked, there would be less games that suck. Saying you and a handful of people who are upset that they didn't get to play a ROM hack aren't going to be buying SE product is inane and stupid and won't do anything. Buy & play good games. Don't for bad ones. That's our responsibility as gamers.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: CelestialPhantasm on May 17, 2009, 12:43:25 pm
Here's a solution to hit SE where it hurts:  Boycott all their games from now on and let them know you're boycotting their games, especially FFXIII and FFvsXIII.  Get enough people writing in to SE that they aren't going to buy any SE games anymore, especially FF, and SE will listen.

even if all the passionate Chrono-fans (which aren't that many) boycotted FF, a ton of other people would still buy it... SE may just not like the idea of being pushed around by fans and will probably ignore it...
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: mav on May 17, 2009, 12:54:08 pm
I hate to break it to you guys, but a couple thousand people boycotting won't make a difference. Hell, hundreds of thousands of boycotts don't make a big enough difference when the games are selling 5 million (or so) copies. Go ahead and boycott though, you're ultimately depriving yourself of games that probably won't all that phenomenal. Likewise writing letters won't do much, unless they're in huge numbers. These kinds of companies and corporations tend to look at letters and just toss 'em aside. They probably won't affect SE though, and if they do, it probably won't be the person you want affected.

Unless you can send a letter, phone call, email, etc directly to the highest-ups at SE, you're not gonna see enough of a difference.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Seph on May 17, 2009, 01:43:51 pm
Well said, sorry peeps but he's right, but that doesn't mean I wont stop boycotting their stuff, like I said before they haven't made anything good in years anyway so I see no need to stop.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: DBoruta on May 17, 2009, 08:31:49 pm
You'd be surprised.  Think about it - even for a company like Square-Enix, bad PR travels fast.  It'll start off with a nice handful of people, but it will make it into something newsworthy on a gaming news site or on Digg if there's enough noise made by the people boycotting.  I'm not just talking FF, I'm talking ALL SE games.  Whether you see it or not, a snowball effect will start from that, or at the very least give SE some very bad PR. 

It's been done to other developers, for example, Infinity Ward.  PS3 people got really pissed off at the handling of COD4 and many boycotted the DLC map packs, including me, and voiced a very loud opinion to IW about it.  IW had already made their millions in COD4, but they decided to try to warm up to the PS3 crowd anyway with some stuff, and it worked for some.

The whole reason why SE is the way it is now is because people like us think voicing some outrage and boycotting won't matter to them.  By saying that, we're letting them win.  Well, I'm fed up with SE putting out shitty games, ruining the good old ones they used to make on top of it, and threatening to sue every time a fan project pops up.  SE can go to hell and I hope they get some REALLY BAD PR out of this. 
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Belthasar on May 17, 2009, 09:56:00 pm
I have googled crimson echoes in quotes for the past 7 days and there are 1,510 results so word is really spreading about the C&D
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: joe_devore on May 17, 2009, 11:30:12 pm
Now that I take a look at all the facts and the legal theories that are actually out there, I would agree. However, the case:

M. Kramer Manufacturing Company, Inc. v. Andrews (1986)

Would be all that stands against the Compendium. I'm trying to find the language right now in a law database, because it's not easily accessible like Nintendo vs. Galoob. I wonder, now, whether Kramer v. Andrews wouldn't be overturned by Nintendo v. Galoob.

Never give up.   Fight back.
I have NEVER SEEN any translation or Hack/mod project online that EVER intended to ever PROFIT from these wonderful pieces of FAN work.

Just found Kramer vs. Andrews (1986). (http://cases.justia.com/us-court-of-appeals/F2/783/421/41759/)

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I understand of that case, the defendant was modding Kramer's game into something very different but still consisting of the raw materials Kramer provided -- and then replicating and selling the product.

Had Andrews sent a magic monkey to mod all of Kramer's coin-op machines into the new game, and not profited from it, would Kramer have had a case? I tend to think not.

YOU *Never* intended to ever profit from these Fan Hacks SO THEY have NO CASE.. (As so far a Profiting goes<_<)
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: wertigon on May 18, 2009, 06:44:12 pm
Sigh...

*would gladly pay $20 if it meant being able to play Crimson Echoes, and if 7 500 other souls felt the same way... Problem solved.*

Won't happen though, but crowd funding is the shit.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 18, 2009, 07:30:46 pm
Yeah, had Yoichi Wada actually played Crimson Echoes, I think there's a serious chance he would have just co-opted the project. It was that good.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: kattrali on May 18, 2009, 07:52:18 pm
Yeah, had Yoichi Wada actually played Crimson Echoes, I think there's a serious chance he would have just co-opted the project. It was that good.

Okay, now I'm going to cry. That wasn't a serious comment, right? Right!?
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 18, 2009, 07:56:31 pm
Dead serious, actually. *hands out tissues*
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Boo the Gentleman Caller on May 18, 2009, 07:57:04 pm
Dead serious?  As in dead like Crimson Echoes?
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Glenn27 on May 18, 2009, 08:06:27 pm
Faust, don't give up yet.  If you ever need $20 donations to pay for legal costs then I think you can get lots of people to chip in.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: kattrali on May 18, 2009, 08:14:47 pm
Faust, don't give up yet.  If you ever need $20 donations to pay for legal costs then I think you can get lots of people to chip in.

I would. Though I know that is not how the Compendium does things.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 18, 2009, 08:37:32 pm
Again, the focus right now is on trying to establish some kind of dialogue with SE. Not all hope is lost until there's an official response that we can use to judge SE's attitude post-fallout. They've gotta say something eventually.

In the meantime, who's up for some Hungry Hungry Hippos?
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Dapifer on May 18, 2009, 08:44:33 pm
I want the Blue one!
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Belthasar on May 18, 2009, 08:45:54 pm
In the meantime, who's up for some Hungry Hungry Hippos?
OOOH OOOh I am!
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: SilentP on May 18, 2009, 08:54:41 pm
Quote
Rumor 4: "These modders were going to distribute hacked ROMs."

Members of the wider fan modding community will no doubt appreciate the nuance in this accusation. There exists a strict code of honor amongst modders according to which modifications must *never* be distributed as ROMs. Crimson Echoes, like Prophet's Guile before it, would have been distributed as a Lunar IPS patch. Within modding culture this is the acceptable way of going about it, and a plethora of SNES-era mods, first translations, and retranslations have made their way onto the Internet in that form. You will very rarely find a fan modder who distributes full ROMs with the modifications in place, and such modders deserve a proper spanking.
Uh... so this is something that generally confuses me about fan mods.  It seems to me releasing a hacked ROM would be the more ethical thing to do than releasing a patch.  Releasing a patch both condones and encourages people to find and d/l an illegal copy of the game.  A hacked ROM would only allow people to play your fan work.  I think.  Unless I am misunderstanding something about how hacking works, and how easy it would be for someone to convert it back to the original game.  Of course, this is also only my view from an ethical standpoint... I have no idea which is more illegal. :P

But yeah, with regard to negotiations with Square, I can't imagine they'll ever agree to something like that, where you guys release a ROM patch.  That would mean condoning d/l'ing CT ROMs themselves.  Seems to me the only chance you would have is if you could release the game as a standalone thing.  And were really really nice to them.  Like send them flowers maybe.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Happy-Dude on May 18, 2009, 09:11:29 pm
Yeah, had Yoichi Wada actually played Crimson Echoes, I think there's a serious chance he would have just co-opted the project. It was that good.

It's these very facts that make me want to tell SquareEnix to stop being so stuck up on their success, that people, their very fans, can produce something at the quality, or even greater, of their works...

It's not even a hire kinda thing. It's like a *special thanks to all our fans* thing.... I don't think the team would mind SE taking the profit, as long as CE is credited, no??

(>.>) ... Has anyone showed Yoichi Wada the demo of CE?

*sigh* I guess I'll still sit here and wait... I've gotten to the *revive Crono* part of CT:DS, and I think I'm falling in love again <3 . Hey hey, how do you play Hungry Hungry Hippos :D ?
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 18, 2009, 09:20:57 pm
Releasing a patch is still and always will be the best thing to do IMHO, SilentP. I'm sure there's been back-and-forth on this point early in the fan modding community's history, and patching ultimately won out.

The reason is, it is in everyone's power to create a backup of a game that he or she owns. Granted, it's much more difficult to complete a format shift of a cartridge-based game than a CD or DVD-based game (you need special hardware for data transfer), but the modding community leaves it up to the end user's honor to own a copy of the original game being modded. To release a pre-patched ROM is ultimately engaging in piracy of at least a portion of the original work; to release a patch involves no distribution of the IP holder's source code whatsoever, only instruction sets to modify that source code.

Quote from: Happy-Dude
Hey hey, how do you play Hungry Hungry Hippos  ?
I have hazy memories of this from my 1980s childhood. Something along the lines of tossing a bunch of ball-bearing sized...food...thingies...in the middle of a board, and then everyone in the game pounds their fists on plastic hippopotami attached to the board, goading his or her hippopotamus to gobble up the little ball thingies.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Glenn27 on May 18, 2009, 09:36:59 pm
I would advise that someone here put together a well-put-together e-mail explaining the current situation of things and send it some gaming sites like Kotaku.

I think bringing fan attention and support to things right now might be benefecial, though that'd be up to the site crew here what would be best. (actually, maybe they should wait for a response patiently and do all the talking stuff first)
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 18, 2009, 09:51:33 pm
Quote
(actually, maybe they should wait for a response patiently and do all the talking stuff first)
This is best. Approaching news organizations with a statement direct from Square in addition to the C&D would help us get our foot in the door. Square being forced to issue a statement by the negative backlash would be extremely newsworthy I imagine, and emphasize fan power.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Dapifer on May 18, 2009, 09:55:24 pm
Go Fan Power!

I rally to this cause!
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: SilentP on May 18, 2009, 09:58:07 pm
Releasing a patch is still and always will be the best thing to do IMHO, SilentP. I'm sure there's been back-and-forth on this point early in the fan modding community's history, and patching ultimately won out.

The reason is, it is in everyone's power to create a backup of a game that he or she owns. Granted, it's much more difficult to complete a format shift of a cartridge-based game than a CD or DVD-based game (you need special hardware for data transfer), but the modding community leaves it up to the end user's honor to own a copy of the original game being modded. To release a pre-patched ROM is ultimately engaging in piracy of at least a portion of the original work; to release a patch involves no distribution of the IP holder's source code whatsoever, only instruction sets to modify that source code.
Ah. I figured these kinds of issues must have been considered at some point by the community, but I never really understood the reasoning behind that decision (I, probably understandably, forgot about the people who actually make legal backups of their snes games, rofl).  So, thanks for clarifying that. :P

However, because of the fact that I'm sure 99.9% of people who would d/l this patch would have obtained a CT ROM illegally, and because of the fact that Square undoubtedly knows this, I'd still be pretty shocked to learn they would ever allow this to be released in patch form now that the C&D is out.  In addition, as long as you intend to release it in patch form, it seems to me Square has a pretty easy out in any press releases, through that argument.  But then, this is probably another one of those things you've already considered. :P [Edit: and I would understand if you can't comment for legal reasons or something :P]
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: kattrali on May 18, 2009, 10:22:35 pm
However, because of the fact that I'm sure 99.9% of people who would d/l this patch would have obtained a CT ROM illegally...

I'm in the 0.1% lol. I assumed a long time ago that my SNES would fail...the ironic part is, its still chugging along while nearly every system since then has failed at some time or other. They don't build things like they used to, I guess. Though on second thought, the NES requires occasional cartridge CPR.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Belthasar on May 18, 2009, 11:15:31 pm
I also am in the .01%. I literally grew up playing CT since before I could read. I own it on both the snes and ps1. If I owned a DS I would own it on that to. Yeah the cartridges may fail but the machine works still 0_o.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: IAmSerge on May 18, 2009, 11:21:11 pm
I have CTDS, that make it illegal?
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: KebreI on May 18, 2009, 11:24:15 pm
I also am in the .01%. I literally grew up playing CT since before I could read. I own it on both the snes and ps1. If I owned a DS I would own it on that to. Yeah the cartridges may fail but the machine works still 0_o.
I can't believe that Belthasar wasn't already taken.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Acacia Sgt on May 18, 2009, 11:26:37 pm
I have CTDS, that make it illegal?

If you talk of the Rom, then yes it is unless you have the original copy.

I guess it's that way considering that there is no harm being done if you already payed for it once.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Boo the Gentleman Caller on May 18, 2009, 11:32:12 pm
Look, I paid big bucks for Chrono Trigger back in the days of the SNES.  And I bought a Nintendo DS just for Chrono Trigger DS (which was a huge letdown, in all honesty).  So by my logic, I have all the reason in the world to have a ROM of Chrono Trigger.  Legally, morally, etc.

LONG LIVE THE CHRONO TRIGGER!
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Mr Bekkler on May 18, 2009, 11:46:01 pm
Look, I paid big bucks for Chrono Trigger back in the days of the SNES.  And I bought a Nintendo DS just for Chrono Trigger DS (which was a huge letdown, in all honesty).  So by my logic, I have all the reason in the world to have a ROM of Chrono Trigger.  Legally, morally, etc.

LONG LIVE THE CHRONO TRIGGER!
What he said.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Mikisho on May 18, 2009, 11:47:30 pm
I'm not gonna lie, I'm part of the 99.9%.  It kind pof makes me feel like a bad person reading this forum  :shock:.  I feel so ashamed  :(
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Acacia Sgt on May 18, 2009, 11:53:11 pm
Look, I paid big bucks for Chrono Trigger back in the days of the SNES.  And I bought a Nintendo DS just for Chrono Trigger DS (which was a huge letdown, in all honesty).  So by my logic, I have all the reason in the world to have a ROM of Chrono Trigger.  Legally, morally, etc.

LONG LIVE THE CHRONO TRIGGER!
What he said.

I only fulfill that with Cross. Trigger, on the other hand...
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: justin3009 on May 18, 2009, 11:56:33 pm
I owned the original SNES cartridge back in the day, but we've moved around at least 5 times.  During the 2nd or 3rd, it got lost in the clean up so it's gone 3:
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: blarg on May 19, 2009, 12:34:59 am
Hi. I'm really disappointed square did this the game would have been fun to play and I hope it gets released sometime.

I hope you don't mind if I ask you guys some questions.

Quote
Not all hope is lost until there's an official response that we can use to judge SE's attitude post-fallout. They've gotta say something eventually.


Why do they have have to say anything? They already got everything they asked for in the C&D. Why would they do anything that would just create more negative press. Especially after you guys said you are not going to do anything until you get a response and then are going to use it for more press. The posts on other sites about this seem to be decreasing and I doubt any game journalists are asking them about it or will ask them in an interview unless people bug them to do that. (It would be cool if they did ask square about it)

Are the secret behind the scenes talks people have been hinting at actual talking to eachother talks or is it we are waiting for a response to our first email talks? I hope it is the first one.

What made people so sure that the guy who posted that stuff you deleted could be fired if square saw it? I doubt he would be dumb enough to post something that would get him fired but I could be wrong.

Good luck with everything!
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 19, 2009, 01:11:28 am
Thanks blarg. We're actually banking on the possibility that a Jedi Knight is whispering into Yoichi Wada's ear.

Jedi: You don't need to C&D that fan project.
SE: ...We don't need to C&D that fan project.
Jedi: Move along, Compendium.
SE: ...Move along, Compendium.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnjaUoR15dU)

We'll be sure to keep you all up to date to let you know how that's going. In the meantime, anyone up for some Hungry Hungry Hippos? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HPI_HT6yjo)
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: RySenkari on May 19, 2009, 02:01:53 am
Finalizing the compliance of the C&D... you're not doing what I think you're doing, are you?

You're not sending Anton Chigurh to kill all the beta testers... right?
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: joe_devore on May 19, 2009, 02:31:02 am
Yeah, had Yoichi Wada actually played Crimson Echoes, I think there's a serious chance he would have just co-opted the project. It was that good.
.. I'm not familiar with that name, though I take it he was one of Chrono Trigger's Developers?


However, because of the fact that I'm sure 99.9% of people who would d/l this patch would have obtained a CT ROM illegally...

I'm in the 0.1% lol. I assumed a long time ago that my SNES would fail...the ironic part is, its still chugging along while nearly every system since then has failed at some time or other. They don't build things like they used to, I guess. Though on second thought, the NES requires occasional cartridge CPR.
My SNES and REAL copy of Chrono Trigger still works along with all my older consoles and games (Though I still had to download a copy for emu use <_< lol I could never afford a Copier they aren't cheep :( )
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 19, 2009, 02:55:08 am
I believe Yoichi Wada is the president of Square Enix.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: joe_devore on May 19, 2009, 04:10:29 am
I believe Yoichi Wada is the president of Square Enix.
oh O_O!!
He really needs to try out CE then, lol would it be ilegal for him to download a copy of Rom& patch?
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Dark Serge on May 19, 2009, 08:54:54 am
How would it be illegal to download your own game?
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Thought on May 19, 2009, 10:47:30 am
It isn't his game, though. It is SE's. That would be like saying it is perfectly legal for him to spend company money on personal vacations because, hey, it's his money.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Dapifer on May 19, 2009, 12:14:59 pm
I already said I am up for Hungry Hungry Hippos!!

I choose the Blue Hippo!

 :lee:


Huh... I swear there was a blue one in the game I owned... but the video the Guru of Time Emeritus shows there is no Blue Hippo =(

Well... I guess I choose Green Hippo then  :)
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Mr Bekkler on May 19, 2009, 12:18:19 pm
I already said I am up for Hungry Hungry Hippos!!

I choose the Blue Hippo!

 :lee:


Huh... I swear there was a blue one in the game I owned... but the video the Guru of Time Emeritus shows there is no Blue Hippo =(

Well... I guess I choose Green Hippo then  :)

(http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/images/ha/hasbro-mb-games-hungry-hungry-hippos.jpg)
Don't worry. You're not going crazy.

Edit: And if you're gonna be green, I call dibs on blue!
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Dark Serge on May 19, 2009, 12:24:19 pm
It isn't his game, though. It is SE's. That would be like saying it is perfectly legal for him to spend company money on personal vacations because, hey, it's his money.

According to above posts he's the president of Square Enix. Means he's the big boss right? In that case I think it's perfectly fine for him to spend company money on a personal vacation. This is a bit weird example though, but for him to download a Chrono Trigger rom would be perfectly fine. Etiquette would probably dictate a meeting with the board of directors for permission and to decide if it's ok or not, but in this case that would be a bit ridicilous.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Dapifer on May 19, 2009, 12:28:47 pm
I already said I am up for Hungry Hungry Hippos!!

I choose the Blue Hippo!

 :lee:


Huh... I swear there was a blue one in the game I owned... but the video the Guru of Time Emeritus shows there is no Blue Hippo =(

Well... I guess I choose Green Hippo then  :)

(http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/images/ha/hasbro-mb-games-hungry-hungry-hippos.jpg)
Don't worry. You're not going crazy.

Edit: And if you're gonna be green, I call dibs on blue!

Awwww, that's not fair, I called the Blue when I believed it existed, I challenge you for the blue one, I will use the Green and you the Yellow Hippo and however wins get's the Blue Hippo.

Blue Hippo owns man...

Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Mr Bekkler on May 19, 2009, 01:10:53 pm
Word.

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/spinthecube/R1yVr0YOebI/AAAAAAAAAC8/BRUqgtMluh4/s288/respecknucklesma5.jpg)
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Megamanx on May 19, 2009, 01:54:14 pm
We all know its all about... Crossfire.  "You'll get caught up in the... CROSSFIRE! (queue epic guitar solo)"
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Mr Bekkler on May 19, 2009, 01:55:17 pm
DwoooOOOOoooooOOOOOoooo, Diddlay Deedley Do!
(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/jackdevries/crossfire5.jpg)

YEAH!
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: SuperSlash on May 19, 2009, 05:29:00 pm
Now I wanna play some Hungry Hungry Hippos.  :(
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Xshu on May 19, 2009, 05:55:33 pm
*takes credit for this entire Hungry Hungry Hippos thing*
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Dapifer on May 19, 2009, 05:56:39 pm
Greetings Slash!

Well, we are 3, now we only need one more that would be OK with the Pink Hippo and we are all set...

So... who else is up for some Hungry Hungry Hippos? You gotta use the Pink Hippo though...
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Mikisho on May 19, 2009, 06:12:21 pm
*Takes bucket of red paint and paints pink hippo red*

Mmmkay, let's go =D
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: OverlordMikey on May 19, 2009, 06:13:48 pm
*Takes bucket of red paint and paints pink hippo red*

Mmmkay, let's go =D

I would have done it and gladly have been pink, I mean pink is just a light shade of red so I don't see what the big deal is. ^.^

But either way isn't this post getting alittle off topic.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Mr Bekkler on May 19, 2009, 06:27:11 pm
*Takes bucket of red paint and paints pink hippo red*

Mmmkay, let's go =D

I would have done it and gladly have been pink, I mean pink is just a light shade of red so I don't see what the big deal is. ^.^

But either way isn't this post getting alittle off topic.

Everything fades. It'll be pink again some day.

And no, Hungry Hungry Hippos was actually very engulfing, to say the least. That is the Truth, and therefor, on topic.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: OverlordMikey on May 19, 2009, 06:32:07 pm
*Takes bucket of red paint and paints pink hippo red*

Mmmkay, let's go =D

I would have done it and gladly have been pink, I mean pink is just a light shade of red so I don't see what the big deal is. ^.^

But either way isn't this post getting alittle off topic.

Everything fades. It'll be pink again some day.

And no, Hungry Hungry Hippos was actually very engulfing, to say the least. That is the Truth, and therefor, on topic.
Your right.....
Thank you oh wise one, I am now born again.  :lol:

Wait what if we are wrong...what if RED is just a darker PINK! Thus why Red fades to pink...it's becomeing it's true self!
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Mikisho on May 19, 2009, 06:32:51 pm
of course it will fade.  But not while I'm playing  :twisted: also, because I have yet to use it.




 :fuk

Don't look away....  You'll only him angry.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: KebreI on May 19, 2009, 08:24:05 pm
BACK ON TOPIC, Faust I gladly wait for news from Agent12.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Boo the Gentleman Caller on May 19, 2009, 09:24:01 pm
And I gladly await news from anyone in "upper management".
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: teaflower on May 19, 2009, 10:13:58 pm
Honestly, this all still feels like a bad dream. It's like any moment I'll wake up and ask 'Hey, what happened with that C&D?' and you guys'll be  either 'Oh you were dreaming tea ha ha ha ha ha' or 'Oh we were joking tea ha ha ha ha ha'.

I can't wait for any real news from anyone. On whether or not this might be overturned. On whether or not there's any way the general public will have access to CE. On whether or not SE will actually say something about this.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Boo the Gentleman Caller on May 19, 2009, 10:39:47 pm
The C&D happened and that's really the end of the story.  There's no reason to hope that Squeenix will lift it because, in all honesty, that's wishful thinking.  It most likely won't happen, but if it does, great.  Assuming that it will happen eventually is not realistic and leads to false hopes.  Let's just assume it won't ever be released.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: joemomma on May 19, 2009, 11:00:31 pm
and that right there is what we call realism kids!

but enough about a project that will never deliver... where do/can I find all the TF info that used to be on this site? can anyone pm me the basics, you know like sprite insertion, how to remove the title screen, getting rid of those damn birds in the beginning, stuff like that. I already have the TF Manual that is on Geiger's site I just need more info... thx to anyone who can help me out.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: desrever on May 19, 2009, 11:01:32 pm
PESSIMIST!
Ugh, I just embaressed myself....
I deserve a Picard :(
 :picardno
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: ctnovelist on May 19, 2009, 11:10:14 pm
 :picardno

CE team: I'm very sorry to hear about this, guys.  You worked very hard to get to this point, and I personally believe that the basis for this C&D is questionable.  However, I think you've made the right decision not to ignore it.  You don't want to go up against a corporation in a legal battle.  With our murky legal system, that sort of situation is trying in the best of times.

I certainly don't see any harm in continuing to communicate with them in the interest of negotiating a solution.  I think SE has become way too harsh in this particular situation and greatly risks upsetting a large fan base by making this move.  If you have the drive to keep going, then I think it's worth further discussions.

I'm kind of curious.  From the community at large, is anyone here LESS likely to buy an SE game as a result of this kind of behavior?

From what you've already been through, you probably already have SE's contact info for the Japanese headquarters.  If not, send me an email to novelist@chronotrigger.info and I'll be happy to share with you the info that I have.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: joe_devore on May 19, 2009, 11:36:58 pm
I'm kind of curious.  From the community at large, is anyone here LESS likely to buy an SE game as a result of this kind of behavior?
Me at least for some time  <_< Not that I can afford it anyway.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Acacia Sgt on May 19, 2009, 11:51:20 pm
I'm kind of curious.  From the community at large, is anyone here LESS likely to buy an SE game as a result of this kind of behavior?

No. If a SE that I can buy gets my interest, I probably will.

However, if I don't, it's more likely that my parents wouldn't let me, or I bought another game instead, or for anything else. But because of the C&D that CE got, I don't think so.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: fwaeld on May 20, 2009, 01:09:49 am
This just confirms that the great company that made Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, and so many other masterpieces is long gone.  Its all about money now. They used to put actual effort into creating epic tales, and they actually listened to their fans. Now its just one bucket of sour milk after another from their aging Final Fantasy cash cow. They basically punched the entire Chrono fanbase in the gut with this one. I'll never buy a Square-Enix game again.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: OverlordMikey on May 20, 2009, 01:32:44 am
This just confirms that the great company that made Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, and so many other masterpieces is long gone.  Its all about money now. They used to put actual effort into creating epic tales, and they actually listened to their fans. Now its just one bucket of sour milk after another from their aging Final Fantasy cash cow. They basically punched the entire Chrono fanbase in the gut with this one. I'll never buy a Square-Enix game again.
See the C&D: Director's Reponse, we have reason to believe SquareEnix was sent an E-mail telling them that the group responisble was planning on chargeing for the game...a lie of course, but the fact remains. Now that the wheels have already turned it will be difficult to convince them to allow CE to go onward, btu we have to try.

The whole gang up,demonize, and burn SE thing is overdone at best.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Megamanx on May 20, 2009, 02:18:28 pm
I'm kind of curious.  From the community at large, is anyone here LESS likely to buy an SE game as a result of this kind of behavior?

I wasn't really planning on it anyway.  XIII looks like trash, and I cant even think of any other games they're working on atm.  That's how irrelevant SE has become.  There was a time where I would have to atleast consider EVERY game they released.  Now, I'd be hard pressed to consider ANY game they release.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Mr Bekkler on May 20, 2009, 02:28:16 pm
I'm kind of curious.  From the community at large, is anyone here LESS likely to buy an SE game as a result of this kind of behavior?
This guy. Right here. Almost bought the new FF3 and 4 and either Dragonquest 4 or 5 for the DS yesterday, instead I went for the Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow, the Resident Evil remake, and the Megaman X collection for the Gamecube/Wii. I buy a bunch of games at once when I buy games, and SE could have retained some loyalty, but fuck em, I don't care about em any more. I'm done.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: KebreI on May 20, 2009, 03:09:12 pm
I am still going to buy SE games under the stipulation that they are good, Dissidia: Final Fantasy(PSP), FFXIII does look good to me, and I still need to pick up Star Ocean 4.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: teaflower on May 20, 2009, 03:36:44 pm
If I buy another SE game, it'll be used. I simply can't afford a new game anymore. I'm broke and the new consoles... hurt my brain anyway. I probably wasn't going to buy one of the new ones, but this... don't think I'll even consider it. The most is I'm asking for CT:DS for my birthday, and my mom might get it new.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: quintin3265 on May 20, 2009, 06:01:42 pm
Hi,

I heard about this situation through the game music community and had to register to say that I completely support the project.  I will not be buying a game from Square Enix again.  Their behavior with this issue was appalling, and their games are so buggy that they are unplayable.  I sold my copy of Star Ocean: The Last Hope because the game is unplayable.  There is a showstopping bug that crashed every time I beat a boss necessary to progress the story.  What kind of incompetent people does this company hire that they can't resolve a fully reproducible bug and that they would shut down a fan project that would provide lots of free exposure for their own upcoming Chrono Trigger releases?

First, I read through this thread and I noticed a few inconsistencies with what's being said here.  As far as I can tell, the game code has been "destroyed."  Even if it wasn't really destroyed and actually is archived somewhere, any "negotiation" with Square would be an admission of guilt, because the game's code no longer officially exists.  There is no way that this project will ever see the light of day again even if both sides want it to go on, because someone would have to admit guilt.

On the other hand, while I won't be buying Square games anymore, I disagree that the author is "risking his life" over the project.  First, this is likely a civil and not a criminal matter, so only money is at stake, not anybody's life or even jail time.  Second, if the code still "existed," taking the case to court, no matter the outcome, would have risen the profile of the project so high that either outcome would be very negative to Square, just like Microsoft backed down after refusing a refund for an academic copy of Windows.  I'm sorry to say that I do think this is an act of cowardice, even though everyone says it isn't.  Whoever wrote the first line of code should have decided to either follow the project through to the end, or to not start at all.

Finally, why didn't anyone think of offering to sell the game to Square when the letter was received?  They might have been willing to pay a hefty sum for all that work.  Everyone would have won - the company gets a great game to put out on the virtual consoles, the contributors make money, and the game gets lots of players.

-Steve
http://www.remixsite.org/ (http://www.remixsite.org/)
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: RySenkari on May 20, 2009, 06:27:20 pm
Well, if they get a big cash settlement, they'd garnish the CE guys' wages for the rest of their life until they paid it off. Either that or they'd have to declare bankruptcy, which financially ruins your credit rating for the rest of your life. I don't think they'd go to jail even if they couldn't pay it off, but it would still be unbelievably difficult for them to get credit for anything (which means they couldn't buy a house).

Yes, I know a lot of us wish they WOULD fight for it, but come on. Even if they had the entire support of the video game community behind them, their lives would still be made ridiculously difficult for the next 5-10 years or more. They'd probably have to drop out of college.

Quote
First, I read through this thread and I noticed a few inconsistencies with what's being said here.  As far as I can tell, the game code has been "destroyed."  Even if it wasn't really destroyed and actually is archived somewhere, any "negotiation" with Square would be an admission of guilt, because the game's code no longer officially exists.  There is no way that this project will ever see the light of day again even if both sides want it to go on, because someone would have to admit guilt.

It would be really dickish of Square to expect that the CE guys totally trashed the code. Obviously they'd have to keep a copy somewhere just in case they could negotiate some type of deal where they got to release the game. The CE creators have no legal obligation to destroy anything until this is absolutely 100% settled.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Chrono Mizaki on May 20, 2009, 06:45:25 pm
Well... I knew about the CE project, but I haven't been bothered to check up on it. It was only the past two days that I knew about the C&D and I'm really sorry to the team for their project to be trashed by the C&D. However, if Chrono Trigger exist as a PC game, you would've got away with it because of the modding community.

However, the fan's comment and such just piss me off, especially with the 'boycott SE'. Because some of them will resort to 'pirating their games' to punish them (and I know it). So here's this: You're not punishing them, you're just dirty thieves.

Not saying that any of you said it, I'm just pointing that out.

Me? There are still some SE franchise I'm interested in, so I'm not on the 'boycott' bandwagon, despite being a huge Chrono Trigger fan. I just knew it would get a C&D, so you could say I washed my hands of it. I just wanted to avoid disappointment and... I actually made the right choices. So no big loss for me.

I got to really question this: But does the Japanese Headquaters have any knowledge in this? Or is it something to do with the American Branch? Because if that's the case, you cannot blame it all on SE.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Shinkinrui on May 20, 2009, 07:24:33 pm
I'm sorry to say that I do think this is an act of cowardice, even though everyone says it isn't.  Whoever wrote the first line of code should have decided to either follow the project through to the end, or to not start at all.
I'm starting to understand why the long-established members of this community are getting pissy with at lot of us newcomers. Stuff like this is SO easy to say. It's obvious he's formed an opinion without reading up on everything the team has said, but BOY HOWDY, he sure knows the way they SHOULD HAVE handled it. Hat's off to you, internet tough guy. :roll:

Finally, why didn't anyone think of offering to sell the game to Square when the letter was received?  They might have been willing to pay a hefty sum for all that work.  Everyone would have won - the company gets a great game to put out on the virtual consoles, the contributors make money, and the game gets lots of players.
Another case of not bother to read. A lot of people have already suggested this. Lo and behold, someone DID think of it. Indeed, the modders themselves thought of this! Except they went one step further:

We made it very clear in our replies that SE could have the rom hack, for absolutely nothing in return.  And that it would be beneficial for everyone involved if we worked together.

So, before you start spouting off about the way they should have handled this, lrn2read and at least make an informed comment :x
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: MDenham on May 21, 2009, 12:53:02 am
Well, if they get a big cash settlement, they'd garnish the CE guys' wages for the rest of their life until they paid it off. Either that or they'd have to declare bankruptcy, which financially ruins your credit rating for the rest of your life.
I wasn't aware you were planning on dying in the next 7-10 years.  (I'm pretty sure it's "your credit is hosed until the bankruptcy rolls off, which is 7 years later".)
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: RySenkari on May 21, 2009, 12:58:40 am
That's still pretty bad, considering this time is an important time in their lives, what with college and possibly buying a home. It might not completely ruin the CE guys' lives, but it would muck them up pretty badly, whereas not getting to play CE wouldn't muck up our lives all that badly.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Boo the Gentleman Caller on May 21, 2009, 01:01:16 am
Yeah, if someone thinks it's so easy to go ahead and release Crimson Echoes and fight any potential lawsuits that follow suit, I say, by all means, take Crimson Echoes and release it yourself.  You can shoulder that responsibility and fight it yourself (legal fees and court costs included).
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Samopoznanie on May 21, 2009, 01:10:14 am
I was just thinking, wouldn't it be great if we could just pay the $150,000 fine and tell SE to shove it... looking at the member database here, there's something like 3242 registered users here... they don't all post of course. But doing the math, that would only be something like $45 each to put in the pot and appease SE. Something to bear in mind for the future, maybe. It's been done before. The coach of the Edmonton Oilers was fined something like $12,000 for cussing at a referee in one game, over a blown call. The hockey community was so pissed, they raised the money in the course of a few days and sent it to him. He donated it charity.

Obviously, 150K is a much bigger sum, but the internet has a global reach.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 21, 2009, 01:14:17 am
Thing is, it's $150,000 per infringement. What counts as an infringement? The patch over all, or each and every single copy of the patch that makes it into people's hands?

I honestly don't know.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: MDenham on May 21, 2009, 01:16:11 am
Thing is, it's $150,000 per infringement. What counts as an infringement? The patch over all, or each and every single copy of the patch that makes it into people's hands?

I honestly don't know.
This is so not going to reassure you, but I think it depends on the judge and, for that matter, on what SE's lawyers would decide.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 21, 2009, 01:24:13 am
...Soooo, yeah. That probably has something to do with why we're taking leaks so seriously and banning people even for toying around and posting false leaks.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: joemomma on May 21, 2009, 01:29:37 am
found this on http://www.romhacking.net/docs/rhnewbfaq.txt

0106: Is ROM hacking legal?

 This is a gray area, but for the most part it's not. ROMs contain
 copyrighted material, thus editing it is infringing on the copyright.
 ROM hackers get around this by releasing patches instead of actual
 edited ROMs. The patches don't contain any information copyrighted by
 the game's publisher, only a set of changes made by the ROM hacker.

and I found two copyright lawyers who provide free consultation

Russ Weinzimmer
Boston, MA
(866) 880-2318

and

Jeffrey D. Hunt
(866) 959-3168
Austin, TX

more info on copyright laws here

Copyright Infringement and Remedies
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 21, 2009, 01:32:32 am
Nice finds joemama! I'll pass this up the ladder.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: RySenkari on May 21, 2009, 01:56:15 am
Quote
Yeah, if someone thinks it's so easy to go ahead and release Crimson Echoes and fight any potential lawsuits that follow suit, I say, by all means, take Crimson Echoes and release it yourself.  You can shoulder that responsibility and fight it yourself (legal fees and court costs included).

The problem is that no one person can actually do that. Even if we all could get some guy who'd be willing to take all the legal burden on his shoulders, tell him to pose as a hacker and start sending the patch to all the torrents, Square would still come after Zeality and his crew even if we made it seem like it was all this "hacker"'s fault.

Quote
Thing is, it's $150,000 per infringement. What counts as an infringement? The patch over all, or each and every single copy of the patch that makes it into people's hands?

I honestly don't know.

Eh, I don't know. Say 10,000 of these patches were distributed. There's no way Square could or would sue for $1.5 billion. There's getting blood from a turnip and then there's getting an ocean of blood from a turnip. Past $150,000, it wouldn't matter. You guys don't have it and it would ruin your lives whether they got a settlement for $150,000 or $150 billion.

Hell, maybe we should hope that they would sue for $150 billion. Judge would see the lawsuit as frivolous and tell Square to go to hell.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: blarg on May 21, 2009, 02:36:19 am
wikipedia says Statutory damages are calculated per work infringed

here is the law on damages they used as a source if anybody wants to try and understand it.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/504.html#c (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/504.html#c)

Think positive! if the judge likes you it could be the minimum $200

Also don't forget Square would get a loooooot more negative news about them if they did sue anybody that I'm sure they'd like to avoid.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: RySenkari on May 21, 2009, 02:43:57 am
The thing is, is $150,000 worth of damage really being done? I doubt there's any way a judge would rule for the full $150,000 in this situation.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FalconHit on May 21, 2009, 03:51:29 am
On the the other hand, I could think of a lot better things to spend $150 000 dollars on then a ROM hack. Honestly, I wouldn't even want to put $45 into "the pot" to support "the cause". If we are speaking honestly that is.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Chrono'99 on May 21, 2009, 04:17:17 am
It's $150,000 for the infringement, not $150,000 for the game to be released. It's not like you can pay the sum and just be done with it; the game would still be deleted and forbidden any way you look at it.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: blarg on May 21, 2009, 01:58:51 pm
Once it is released there is nothing square or the courts can do to delete or forbid it from the Internet. Prophet's guile is still hosted on romhacking.net and zophar and a bunch of other sites. I wonder why Square isn't C&Ding them for that and all the other romhacks on their sites. Doesn't seem fair

The romhacking.net legal opinion was posted so I guess I'll show zophar.net's they seem much more sure about it.

Quote
There is no illegal content hosted on Zophar's Domain. Files such as emulators, hacks, utilities and other programs that can be used to modify or use copyrighted content themselves are not illegal, and although it is a wet dream for the departments of some companies, they never will be illegal.

The emulation scene and this site has been alive for over a decade, and we will forever be here.

If you wish to contact us due to any concerns, please use the contact form or post in the forums.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: phelph on May 21, 2009, 03:14:19 pm
Once it is released there is nothing square or the courts can do to delete or forbid it from the Internet. Prophet's guile is still hosted on romhacking.net and zophar and a bunch of other sites. I wonder why Square isn't C&Ding them for that and all the other romhacks on their sites. Doesn't seem fair


Thats a good point. Prophets guile is still on romhacking.net. Square doesnt care, and to be honest probably doesnt care about any of this.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: phelph on May 21, 2009, 03:31:03 pm
...Soooo, yeah. That probably has something to do with why we're taking leaks so seriously and banning people even for toying around and posting false leaks.

take a deep breath and realize: the creators would never lose 150,000 dollars on this. Look at youtube, before google bought it legal threats werent holding a drop of water, why? there were plenty of infringements there, but the owners of youtube didnt have any money worth seizing. By your logic the original owners of youtube shouldv lost millions and millions that they didnt have out of thin air, 150k per infrigement. It was only after a company like google bought it which had real assets did legal threats even start to become a real issue.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: RySenkari on May 21, 2009, 03:44:19 pm
I highly doubt Square would sue even if the game was released, but they still can't take that small chance. Again, it's like playing Russian Roulette.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: teaflower on May 21, 2009, 03:47:54 pm
Phelph, I must point out something wrong with your Prophet's Guile example. Sure, Prophet's Guile is still out there, but that's not what we're dealing with. Prophet's Guile was already released onto the internet, and once it's out there, there ain't nothing no one can do about it. They simply asked us to remove Prophet's Guile from our site. Which we did.

Now, Crimson Echoes is incomplete. It hasn't been distributed to anyone outside of the producers and the beta team. Square Enix asked us to destroy Crimson Echoes, and we followed with there demands. If a copy of CE were to be leaked, ultimately it would come from the beta team, who got it from JP and Z. So then they get hit with the fines.

We can't just say they don't care. That's giving up. This is our dream. We have done so much to see it come to fruition, and we came so far. We are EVERYWHERE. Digg. Reddit. Facebook. G4. EVERYWHERE. Pretty soon they'll catch on, hopefully, and maybe make a statement.

Show them what radical dreamers are all about!
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: quintin3265 on May 21, 2009, 04:06:51 pm
Someone above criticized me for saying that I'm some sort of "Internet zombie" who just comes to forums and attacks others.  What I was trying to do is to get people to look at the money.  Hopefully people won't take the wrong impression off what I'm about to say and will look solely at the numbers, which is the point of this post.

A software engineer I know makes $68,000/yr, far more than anyone should reasonably make, and I'll assume that's the going rate for a software engineer.  He is incredibly, incredibly lucky in that money doesn't mean all that much to him, and he doesn't want to waste it on things he don't need.  He saves 50% of income.  Nobody should need that kind of money "just to survive."

Someone who is able to create a game like this is obviously far more talented than he is, so the developers here could work for an even higher salary.  They put four years into the game.  But if you do the math, four years of work is worth more than $150,000 just in excess income alone, even if the fine were guaranteed to be set at that maximum amount.  So when I say that they should consider taking a risk (but not daring Square to sue outright, which is a sure way to lose), you need to look at their financial situation, not your situation or the situation of someone who is less fortunate.  If I had that kind of talent, a lawsuit like that isn't even going to cause bankruptcy, assuming that the money hasn't been wasted on luxury cars or enormous houses.  They could still live comfortably even if the worst happened.

To most people here, the money is a big deal.  But to people whose skills are so valuable, money doesn't mean as much to them.  What would you rather do - buy a Jaguar, or take a chance and release something that you love and spent 8,000 hours working on?
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: MDenham on May 21, 2009, 04:16:00 pm
A software engineer I know makes $68,000/yr, far more than anyone should reasonably make
Your opinion of what people should "reasonably" make depresses me.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Dark Serge on May 21, 2009, 04:39:23 pm
Phelph, I must point out something wrong with your Prophet's Guile example. Sure, Prophet's Guile is still out there, but that's not what we're dealing with. Prophet's Guile was already released onto the internet, and once it's out there, there ain't nothing no one can do about it. They simply asked us to remove Prophet's Guile from our site. Which we did.

Now, Crimson Echoes is incomplete. It hasn't been distributed to anyone outside of the producers and the beta team. Square Enix asked us to destroy Crimson Echoes, and we followed with there demands. If a copy of CE were to be leaked, ultimately it would come from the beta team, who got it from JP and Z. So then they get hit with the fines.

We can't just say they don't care. That's giving up. This is our dream. We have done so much to see it come to fruition, and we came so far. We are EVERYWHERE. Digg. Reddit. Facebook. G4. EVERYWHERE. Pretty soon they'll catch on, hopefully, and maybe make a statement.

Show them what radical dreamers are all about!

Internet publicity is allright but does SE really care? I think the time has come and this news needs to hit a magazine. I'm talking EDGE or Games TM. If even big names like that pay attention to this, maybe SE will finally cringe.

Actually, I suggest you all try to contact as much games magazines as you know and pass this news over to them. Give them the facts though, make sure there are no misunderstandings.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: zoinkity on May 21, 2009, 04:54:17 pm
There is always the "Ms. Pacman" route.  Has anyone pursued handing Square the finished product and allow full rights for them to sell it, no strings attached?  At this point, after so much work, distribution is really the issue.
Realistically-speaking, mainline distribution would place the game in far more hands--especially if it made it to xbox live or virtual console.

+_+

At the very least, you can always distribute a (textual) fanficton of the "make your own adventure" sort.  The story, after all, is your own. 

Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: KebreI on May 21, 2009, 05:01:39 pm
Actually, I suggest you all try to contact as much games magazines as you know and pass this news over to them. Give them the facts though, make sure there are no misunderstandings.
The deadline is coming up, if we wait too long then its no longer news. Issues are for June will be out in two-three weeks. In all honesty we should get Agent12 to write a general letter then send it of to all major magazines, with in a week. Most have a contact for new, hot stories, or sudden developments.

On its own though its not quite enough for some magazines, so maybe tie to other C&D(CT:R, 2D Zelda:OOT, etc.)


There is always the "Ms. Pacman" route.  Has anyone pursued handing Square the finished product and allow full rights for them to sell it, no strings attached?  At this point, after so much work, distribution is really the issue.
Realistically-speaking, mainline distribution would place the game in far more hands--especially if it made it to xbox live or virtual console.
They already tried to offer it up to them, but I don't think SE accepted it.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Dark Serge on May 21, 2009, 05:10:06 pm
Perhaps Square Enix thinks the Chrono Trigger engine from the SNES is outdated, as compared to the touch screen features in CT:DS, and they don't want people to think CT is downgrading. Perhaps they're too lazy to port it over to the DS.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: thesnake383 on May 21, 2009, 05:33:05 pm
Perhaps Square Enix thinks the Chrono Trigger engine from the SNES is outdated, as compared to the touch screen features in CT:DS, and they don't want people to think CT is downgrading. Perhaps they're too lazy to port it over to the DS.

What about the Megaman 9 route? Could it be possible that they could take the idea and release it for WiiWare?
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: kattrali on May 21, 2009, 05:59:10 pm
Maybe SE feels weird about a few fans completing a polished game in as much time as it takes them to complete yet another iteration of a well-worn franchise.  Seriously, I don't know why new games need to look "shinier" or more visually stunning anymore. Content is where it counts.  I don't think  I've thought of a game's characters as heroes or memorable since CT, FF6, and OoT.

...I think I said all that just to say that the "Megaman 9" route would be amazing, though in my heart of hearts I want to load it on a cartridge and play with my favorite purple-buttoned controller.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Dark Serge on May 21, 2009, 08:07:21 pm
Perhaps Square Enix thinks the Chrono Trigger engine from the SNES is outdated, as compared to the touch screen features in CT:DS, and they don't want people to think CT is downgrading. Perhaps they're too lazy to port it over to the DS.

What about the Megaman 9 route? Could it be possible that they could take the idea and release it for WiiWare?

No way, they probably don't even want to acknowledge it
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Panzer88 on May 22, 2009, 09:02:32 pm
as a preface, I am not suggesting anything.

that said, I believe that this action by SE legal was probably mostly to kill the hype, the word of mouth, the knowledge of the game to the mass market, and also to discourage game modification to the mass market. They don't want the vast majority of gamers to know about this and they certainly don't want more gamers creating content off of their IPs.

As you can see if a project is fairly low key then it gets no attention but when it is making headlines then it is a problem to them, gamers everywhere know about it and therefore they have to address it.

I would say that (and I'm not SUGGESTING it, just speculating) if this hack, or one much like it, were to come out a year or two from now, with no fanfare or publicity, then it would be completely ignored, if it was released to the fans of chrono compendium and other romhacking sites and spread modestly through word of mouth by those people on message boards, IRC, instant message and talking and phoning among friends then it would be ignored like so many other major rom hacks.

the main problem with this was the mainstream visibility, and I don't think it's that out of the question to say that if the same project was released much later, or another project done, that it would be ignored.

Thoughts?

I'm not trying to suggest any action, nor insult anyone, merely thinking about what made this different, I mean there have been many very in depth long hacks done before such as Metroid Redesign and Zelda Parallel Worlds but they had no C&D, I think it is when something is publicized that it really gets into deep water.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Rickets on May 24, 2009, 02:02:27 am
as a preface, I am not suggesting anything.

that said, I believe that this action by SE legal was probably mostly to kill the hype, the word of mouth, the knowledge of the game to the mass market, and also to discourage game modification to the mass market. They don't want the vast majority of gamers to know about this and they certainly don't want more gamers creating content off of their IPs.

As you can see if a project is fairly low key then it gets no attention but when it is making headlines then it is a problem to them, gamers everywhere know about it and therefore they have to address it.

I would say that (and I'm not SUGGESTING it, just speculating) if this hack, or one much like it, were to come out a year or two from now, with no fanfare or publicity, then it would be completely ignored, if it was released to the fans of chrono compendium and other romhacking sites and spread modestly through word of mouth by those people on message boards, IRC, instant message and talking and phoning among friends then it would be ignored like so many other major rom hacks.

the main problem with this was the mainstream visibility, and I don't think it's that out of the question to say that if the same project was released much later, or another project done, that it would be ignored.

Thoughts?

I'm not trying to suggest any action, nor insult anyone, merely thinking about what made this different, I mean there have been many very in depth long hacks done before such as Metroid Redesign and Zelda Parallel Worlds but they had no C&D, I think it is when something is publicized that it really gets into deep water.

I think this is dead on. I hate to say it, but CE was made out to be too big of a deal... I now think of CE as Fight Club and we broke the 1st and 2nd rule. Had we not released it a year from now under a different name and story alterations at a separate site and taken zero credit for it we may have gotten away with it... if it weren't for those sniveling corporations.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Boo the Gentleman Caller on May 24, 2009, 02:25:41 am
Had it been released without any marketing, the entire release would have occurred smoothly.  And there probably wouldn't have been any post-release problems...

However...  What's done is done, so there's no point making "what if" or "had we just..." statements.

Now we face tomorrow.  We face the beautiful future.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Mr Bekkler on May 24, 2009, 03:52:38 am
2300ad, here we come!











 :(
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Acacia Sgt on May 24, 2009, 03:57:04 am
Why the sad face? It's not as if it's definite we are going to that 2,300 AD, or is it? You never know...
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: kid123 on May 24, 2009, 04:53:19 am
It is even uncertain what our 2300 ad gonna look like...... So yeah.
I disagree on Boo's last part of his comment, our future is unpredictable,  we may even see the fall of compendium.

Opss i think i said too much. :(
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Panzer88 on May 24, 2009, 08:30:24 am
Had it been released without any marketing, the entire release would have occurred smoothly.  And there probably wouldn't have been any post-release problems...

However...  What's done is done, so there's no point making "what if" or "had we just..." statements.

Now we face tomorrow.  We face the beautiful future.

I know, I just think it's a valuable lesson to be learned for the future.

More over, is the Chrono Trigger Retranslation still on this site?  It's still on RHDN, how is this any different than Prophet's Guile?

I would just like to see these inconsistencies addressed by the staff of this site.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: kattrali on May 24, 2009, 10:25:53 am
Had it been released without any marketing, the entire release would have occurred smoothly.  And there probably wouldn't have been any post-release problems...

But at the time, was there a lot of fanfare?
Quote from: TeaFlower on April 9, 2009
Hopefully, because we're keeping Crimson Echoes generally under wraps, they won't kill it. We don't advertise it greatly on the front page. We... elude to it. I guess. I dunno.

http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,7122.msg155956/topicseen.html#msg155956

Seems like there wasn't much, at least without SE randomly browsing fan sites.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Boo the Gentleman Caller on May 24, 2009, 10:30:04 am
Quote
But at the time, was there a lot of fanfare?

Yes.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 24, 2009, 01:19:00 pm
I personally felt at the time that there wasn't enough fan fare. The only place it was being heavily advertised at was Romhacking.net and Youtube. I'm not even sure we ever linked to crimsonechoes.com anywhere in the forums. ZeaLitY last mentioned Crimson Echoes on the frontpage in February I think, but after that it was pretty much chatter about "CE" except where it was being advertised.

The "problem" may have been that the advertisements were just too high quality. I mean, if you happened to find your way to crimsonechoes.com, you'd be blown away by the artwork and the overall professionalism of the site. If Square had either been following the project closely all this time or else was drawn to it recently by the denunciation letter (if it was real, which I still have personal doubts about), it's easy to see in retrospect why they might have felt threatened. CE was literally the highest-quality product ever to have arisen from videogame modding culture.

But here's an odd thing: during the viral advertisement run, CE was never described as a "ROM hack." Of course ROMhacking.net frequenters would already know what it was, but I think the CE team was going for a mysterious impression. People could have mistaken it for an ambitious Flash or RPGMaker project until it was actually released.

The first instance of anything remotely related to game modification in the viral advertising run came on April 26, when I uploaded the second preview video to my personal Youtube account. It said "Coming to an Emulator Near You. Soon." Even then, only 150 people or so even saw it; the video didn't become heavily viewed until after the C&D. So I think SE's either been following CE for some time, or did quite a bit of digging if it learned about it recently. Thing is, had SE done that amount of digging, I'm still surprised at some of the claims that made it into the C&D.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: kando on May 24, 2009, 02:20:14 pm
They shot theirselves in the foot indeed, because now CE has so much more attention and for the wrong reasons, which is also hurting Square-Enix as well...

I must say after playing the demo 2 I am a broken man because i cannot have the true sequel to chrono trigger :(

but yea...i may not have even known about this until months and months later until i heard about the C&D, so thanks SE for letting me know about a 98% done sequel as well as telling me i can never have it.

*slits wrists*

-kando
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Boo the Gentleman Caller on May 24, 2009, 03:09:58 pm
I don't think Square is worrying to much about it right now... I wonder if they're not trying to let the fire go out.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Panzer88 on May 24, 2009, 04:49:09 pm
The "problem" may have been that the advertisements were just too high quality.

agreed, the crimsonechoes.com site was the clincher.

CE was literally the highest-quality product ever to have arisen from videogame modding culture.

that's a bit of a bold statement with all the other amazing work out there.

But here's an odd thing: during the viral advertisement run, CE was never described as a "ROM hack." Of course ROMhacking.net frequenters would already know what it was, but I think the CE team was going for a mysterious impression. People could have mistaken it for an ambitious Flash or RPGMaker project until it was actually released.

that can actually majorly work against you, Companies seem to have a lot less of a problem with a mod or extension of their own work rather than a brand new game using their assets. It makes it seem as though said creators of said game are trying to hijack their series and IP. I know that was not the intent of the compendium but that is how a company like Square would perceive something that is being advertised as it's own game rather than a rom hack.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Chrono'99 on May 24, 2009, 05:05:29 pm
I don't know if it was the highest-quality product ever to have arisen from videogame modding culture, but it was definitely one of the most thorough. What we showed in the trailers was only the tip of the iceberg.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Panzer88 on May 24, 2009, 06:16:08 pm
certainly, I have the upmost respect for what you guys do.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Zelbess on May 24, 2009, 09:44:57 pm
I disagree on Boo's last part of his comment, our future is unpredictable,  we may even see the fall of compendium.
I know I am a mere newbie, but I have to say I disagree with this. There is certainly more to the Compendium than CE; I actually joined here after the "CE Debacle" and had no idea of the game's existence. It had no motivation in my reason for joining. I'm sure the release of CE was a major factor for excitement and a highlight of the forum, but the Compendium certainly stands strong without it. It offers a lot of things for Chrono fans; I joined here to read plot analysis and to get a firmer grasp on my understanding of the Chrono series. Also, just to be around other Chrono fans who understood my little obsession and could discuss things related to it. :) I really don't think this place is going anywhere... also, you never know, the "Day of Lavos" here on the forums might just have a happy ending!
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Acacia Sgt on May 24, 2009, 09:58:55 pm
So true, besides, this are just the forums, there is still other things the Compendium offers. So even if nobody ever posts in here again, the place will still be here, and still be of use for anyone who visits it.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: OverlordMikey on May 25, 2009, 12:10:44 am
I disagree on Boo's last part of his comment, our future is unpredictable,  we may even see the fall of compendium.
I know I am a mere newbie, but I have to say I disagree with this. There is certainly more to the Compendium than CE; I actually joined here after the "CE Debacle" and had no idea of the game's existence. It had no motivation in my reason for joining. I'm sure the release of CE was a major factor for excitement and a highlight of the forum, but the Compendium certainly stands strong without it. It offers a lot of things for Chrono fans; I joined here to read plot analysis and to get a firmer grasp on my understanding of the Chrono series. Also, just to be around other Chrono fans who understood my little obsession and could discuss things related to it. :) I really don't think this place is going anywhere... also, you never know, the "Day of Lavos" here on the forums might just have a happy ending!

For me the original "Day of Lavos" was a happy ending ^.^'

Anyway I wanna believe that only good things await in the future. even if something seems bad, it can end good.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Mr Bekkler on May 25, 2009, 12:16:25 am
What's the difference between this thread, this thread (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,7396.0.html), and this thread (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,7420.0.html)?

It's kinda been buggin me, cause they all started different and now all seem the same.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: V_Translanka on May 25, 2009, 12:18:11 am
The only people who are leaving are people who felt sore about the whole situation...or people who were whiners that somehow felt they were personally affronted by it. The Compendium did not start out as a ROM hacking community and it will do just fine if it never is one again. If you think it'll die, then you're not SoY~!! The C&D is a shame, for certain, but the people who weren't even working on it need to STFU, get off their asses and contribute to the community. Don't LET this dampen your spirits! Create a webcomic. Make some fanart. Hell, write a fanfic. It doesn't have to be epic, but if you channel w/e emotions you have into something artistic, I don't think you can ever really go wrong...Just letting it brew and shaking your fist at the machine does nothing. DO SOMETHING POSITIVE~!!!

Bekkler: Sometimes the paths we start at, while different, can lead to the same places.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Mr Bekkler on May 25, 2009, 12:43:12 am
Hell yeah, V.

http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,7484.0.html

Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: OverlordMikey on May 25, 2009, 03:03:45 am
The only people who are leaving are people who felt sore about the whole situation...or people who were whiners that somehow felt they were personally affronted by it. The Compendium did not start out as a ROM hacking community and it will do just fine if it never is one again. If you think it'll die, then you're not SoY~!! The C&D is a shame, for certain, but the people who weren't even working on it need to STFU, get off their asses and contribute to the community. Don't LET this dampen your spirits! Create a webcomic. Make some fanart. Hell, write a fanfic. It doesn't have to be epic, but if you channel w/e emotions you have into something artistic, I don't think you can ever really go wrong...Just letting it brew and shaking your fist at the machine does nothing. DO SOMETHING POSITIVE~!!!

Bekkler: Sometimes the paths we start at, while different, can lead to the same places.

Wow! I've been sayin something along those line for awhile. People are takin' this way to personally. It's sad and all, but it's not like they just wanted to torment their fans. First people are acting like SE broke into their homes (they act like the company is a living entity of it's own) and beat their family then killed their puppy for giggles. Now everyone wants vegence on some damn troll. I wanna do something useful to the Compendium....maybe a fanfic? I wanna be a writer someday, but I'm not sure I could do a good CT or CC fanfic. If you have any ideas I'm all open for suggestions.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Rickets on May 27, 2009, 01:43:50 am
Still waiting for more news...

 :picardno


Last I checked, waiting does not require posting. Keep it in your pants.
                                                                                   ~V_Translanka

Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 27, 2009, 03:25:56 am
You'll get some news sometime tomorrow.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: odekam on May 27, 2009, 07:14:39 am
You'll get some news sometime tomorrow.

Some news means good news..... right?
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: OverlordMikey on May 27, 2009, 11:38:04 am
You'll get some news sometime tomorrow.

Some news means good news..... right?

Oh boy how exciting, rather it's good or bad I Mikey stand by with a happy outlook. Remember even if things don't work out we will find something else to do. The compendium was here before Crimsion Echo and it will be here afterwords. We are the CHRONO Compendium, not the Crimsion Echo one. There will be other ways to show our love for the series and to keep the fandom strong.

Still I hope for good news.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Geowil on May 27, 2009, 12:51:03 pm
'lo everyone, I am new to the compendium.

I have been a fan of Chrono Trigger since 1996 when I first played it and I must say, that even to this day, it remains the BEST game I ever played, only FF7 comes close (and it is maybe 12 steps down from CT on the awesomeness ladder) to CT for me.


That being siad I also own Chrono Cross.  I have not beaten the game yet, actually I am stuck on FATE at the moment >.<  but ever since I entered the Sea of Eden and learned about what really happened I have been wondering how these two games had ever been connected.

When I first heard about Crimson Echos, to tell you the truth, I was shocked.  As I read through he compendium I found a plausible arc between the two.  I was VERY hyped for this "patch" to come out, the videos for it showed what I believe was a storyline comparable to the original one.

But now that SE has sent the cease and desist I am a little pissed, though it is my opinion that certain other events might have triggered SE's actions (search google for RIAA suemongering) I can see how they could feel threatened by this though.

I think that somehow SE and the fan communities positions have been revered ever since they killed the 3D remake.  SE are the ones that are now being over protective of the Chrono legacy.  It should be the other way around, unless a game company plans to release a future game for a series (not a remake), they should just let it die.  It is then the job of the fan base to not let that happen, to be over protective of the game.  This is how I think they modding communities formed in the first place.

but SE has revesed the roles now, whether because they are making a new Chrono game or just turning CT into a cash cow like FF still remains to be seen I guess.

Though that has left me with a question, their actions suggest that they are making a new Chrono game (not just a remake), because as far as I have seen, once a game series has been made and is finished (in most cases), if it hasnt been possible already allowed/possible, the companies release modding tools or allow their games to be modded.  It is my firm belief that once a game is completed, the company no longer owns the game, legally they might, but the soul of the game belongs to the fans of the game.


anyway this brings me to my next point.  A suggestion to the team behind CE.  dont let your 5 years of work go to waste, even if they black ball you and say they will not allow you to continue, or that they will not 'buy' the game and release it or just wont let this one time slip by.  It doesnt mean that all of your work has to go to waste, release the storyline as a fanfic or find another medium to tell the plot in.  SE has a problem with how the game was made, not what the game is about.  They might argue, but i dont think, even legally, they can sue someone from writing a story about Chrono Trigger.

Or do as some people have suggested on a lot of posts around the interwebs and release the game anyway, but do it through channels that will keep it hush hush.


I would really hate to see the project die entirely, the storyline you thought up has me so intrigued. 


I await the news good or bad.  Even if it is bad, i dont think that we are going to lose CE entirely.


Quote
I've been sayin something along those line for awhile. People are takin' this way to personally.

Sure, I can see how that is, but you also need to understand, some people worship this game (that being CT) and so far, anytime someone has tried to improve it, or make a new plot from it, it gets shot down.  So I can also see where they would be personally offended.  A lot of people loved this game, some might even have had life altering events surrounding the game (i saw a youtube video where this guy rom hacked CT to make a storyline that at the end of which was a proposal to his girlfriend), it was one of the single greatest games to ever grace the gaming world, and there are those that take every hit to the fan base by SE personally because they think that they are entitled to have some say at least in what SE does with the game series.

Though I am not for or against that kind of thinking, I do believe that SE should either release a CT sequel/CC prequel, or put and shut up and pass the reigns to the fan base and not defame the series name by whoring it out to almost every console that comes out.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: V_Translanka on May 27, 2009, 01:16:02 pm
Quote
I've been sayin something along those line for awhile. People are takin' this way to personally.

Sure, I can see how that is, but you also need to understand, some people worship this game (that being CT) and so far, anytime someone has tried to improve it, or make a new plot from it, it gets shot down.

I hate to say it, but that just sounds like incredibly narrow-minded talk. Do you honestly think that CTRP, CT:R and CT:CE are the only Chrono projects in existence? The only things that matter? What? Like said, it may have been great, but it was only one. It is not the be-all, end-all of all Chrono fandom and people need to stop thinking like it is.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: kattrali on May 27, 2009, 01:39:05 pm
I hate to say it, but that just sounds like incredibly narrow-minded talk. Do you honestly think that CTRP, CT:R and CT:CE are the only Chrono projects in existence? The only things that matter? What? Like said, it may have been great, but it was only one. It is not the be-all, end-all of all Chrono fandom and people need to stop thinking like it is.

Agreed, though I think this is important on a larger scale because of the implications for other fan projects, at least by looking at the effect this has had already on other Chrono fan game projects across the web.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Geowil on May 27, 2009, 01:52:48 pm
Quote
I've been sayin something along those line for awhile. People are takin' this way to personally.

Sure, I can see how that is, but you also need to understand, some people worship this game (that being CT) and so far, anytime someone has tried to improve it, or make a new plot from it, it gets shot down.

I hate to say it, but that just sounds like incredibly narrow-minded talk. Do you honestly think that CTRP, CT:R and CT:CE are the only Chrono projects in existence? The only things that matter? What? Like said, it may have been great, but it was only one. It is not the be-all, end-all of all Chrono fandom and people need to stop thinking like it is.


sorry if i came off as a prick with that, but truly those are the only major projects I have ever heard of since I started looking (with any interest; to me a mod has to be more then just a simple translation of a game, or more then a few extra maps and side quests) at the Chrono modding community back in 2006-this month. 

but what I said stills stands.  I was not talking directly about CE but about ALL the mods that SE has crapped on, those have been the biggest one imo out of any of the ones that have come out, prickish it maybe but thats my opinion (as I said before I dont know about many others then the ones you mentioned).


I hate to say it, but that just sounds like incredibly narrow-minded talk. Do you honestly think that CTRP, CT:R and CT:CE are the only Chrono projects in existence? The only things that matter? What? Like said, it may have been great, but it was only one. It is not the be-all, end-all of all Chrono fandom and people need to stop thinking like it is.

Agreed, though I think this is important on a larger scale because of the implications for other fan projects, at least by looking at the effect this has had already on other Chrono fan game projects across the web.

exactly the point i am trying to convey, sooner or later the fan base is just going to stop trying to make a full-length Rom mod for CT. Its like a, hate to use the term but..., war of attrition.  We're going to keep going till something gives, and at present its probably going to be the spirits of the fans rather then the shrewdness of SE.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Mr Bekkler on May 27, 2009, 02:33:24 pm


Or do as some people have suggested on a lot of posts around the interwebs and release the game anyway, but do it through channels that will keep it hush hush.



Stop saying this, people. It's false hope. It's not going to happen.

It's either SE goes out of business and therefor can't sue, or the patch will never be released. Nobody would "keep hush hush" especially now with all the press the patch recieved recently.

Once everyone stops suggesting to do the OPPOSITE of what the team has already decided, then we can ACTUALLY move on.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: phelph on May 27, 2009, 03:24:06 pm
CE was literally the highest-quality product ever to have arisen from videogame modding culture.

Ouch, yeah have a slice of humble pie. Firstly i dont think somthing counts has having "arisen" if it was never released. Secondly, theres a wealth of very professional fan mods out there. DotA for one, or a more relevant example is Kingsquest 9(who received their own C&D from vivendi universal). Point is, this wasnt something the culture has never seen and completely awe-shook people with preview clips of sprites from the original game with some sprinklings of inserted text. Im looking forward to seeing these full playthrough videos.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Mikisho on May 27, 2009, 03:48:15 pm
You'll get some news sometime tomorrow.
Your post was at midnight...  So does that mean tomorrow as in today?  Or tomorrow as in thursday?  Also phelph, if Faust wants to make this pain worse by explaining how amazing CE was now that it will never be released, its his right to xD.  Besides...  He's watching you....  Be afraid.....
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Chrono'99 on May 27, 2009, 03:58:20 pm
CE was literally the highest-quality product ever to have arisen from videogame modding culture.

Ouch, yeah have a slice of humble pie. Firstly i dont think somthing counts has having "arisen" if it was never released. Secondly, theres a wealth of very professional fan mods out there. DotA for one, or a more relevant example is Kingsquest 9(who received their own C&D from vivendi universal). Point is, this wasnt something the culture has never seen and completely awe-shook people with preview clips of sprites from the original game with some sprinklings of inserted text. Im looking forward to seeing these full playthrough videos.

The rest is opinion, but I'd just like to note that King's Quest IX (now known as The Silver Lining) is not a mod.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: phelph on May 27, 2009, 04:01:38 pm
true, but relevant nonetheless. Hopefully the biggest difference between the two situations is that vivendi never intended to continue that series, and maaaybe square-enix does. But oh well.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 27, 2009, 04:11:40 pm
Quote from: phelph
Ouch, yeah have a slice of humble pie.
First off, I was not a member of the core CE team; the CE team merely requested my services for some post-production work, and I've also played through the game from beginning to end three times while recording footage/beta testing. As little more than a propsective end-user of the product, I am under no obligation to be humble about something I did not create.

Furthermore, yes, I will re-state that Crimson Echoes was literally the highest-quality product ever to have arisen from videogame modding culture. Chrono'99, Agent 12, and ZeaLitY are just being extremely humble. Looking it over again as I'm processing the footage of the 98% complete beta, there is simply no doubt in my mind. Doesn't mean there won't be doubts in your mind phelph, but there are none in mine.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: phelph on May 27, 2009, 04:13:00 pm
wellll, good to know.

edit: but, the point remains i wouldnt expect square to have thought it was highest quality product to come out of modding culture and see it as a threat. But guess you can never knowww.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: RySenkari on May 27, 2009, 04:20:45 pm
Quote
I've also played through the game from beginning to end three times while recording footage/beta testing.

I'm more jealous of you right now than I am of Jessica Alba's boyfriend.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 27, 2009, 04:28:25 pm
Quote from: RySenkari
I'm more jealous of you right now than I am of Jessica Alba's boyfriend.
Since (CE x 3) = approx. 80 hours of Chrono goodness that paid proper homage to canon, each playthrough a bit more interesting than the last thanks to new tweaks and additions, this is probably justified. Not absolutely justified...just probably.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Lord J Esq on May 27, 2009, 05:02:13 pm
I hate to say it, but that just sounds like incredibly narrow-minded talk. Do you honestly think that CTRP, CT:R and CT:CE are the only Chrono projects in existence? The only things that matter? What? Like said, it may have been great, but it was only one. It is not the be-all, end-all of all Chrono fandom and people need to stop thinking like it is.

I have to lend my support to V on this one. With the greatest deference to JP and his team for completing what none of us in the Chrono community ever have--a feature-length Chrono game--I played most of Crimson Echoes and, honestly, it was no Chrono Trigger. It was an okay game, and a nice diversion, and it definitely had its moments. But it was hardly the be-all, end-all of Chrono fandom, and to behave otherwise is a disservice to all the other hardworking artists, composers, and designers out there.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: V_Translanka on May 27, 2009, 06:53:20 pm
One of the main reasons CE was important, for the CT hacking community at least, was the fact that it was being made using Temporal Flux, a relatively new tool insofar as hacking goes (and the lack of which probably being part of the reason for the lack of, or else very little, CT modding prior), and was going to be the first full-length feature using it. It would have been a great platform for people to see what was possible with it. Now someone else will have to step up to bat sometime...who knows? No one, stop asking. :lol:
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Mr Bekkler on May 27, 2009, 11:43:13 pm
The difference between the Chrono fan community and Square-Enix is the difference between Love and Fear, respectively.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Kahran042 on May 31, 2009, 12:44:17 am
Do you honestly think that CTRP, CT:R and CT:CE are the only Chrono projects in existence?

Yes, but they were the only ones that didn't suck.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: kid123 on May 31, 2009, 12:58:07 am
Be careful, your word might insulted any fan-made game's team that read them.
Actually, how well games advertised do determine the games popularity, and I might add that
the risk of getting C&D is high when do that.
Not to mention what V said, CE is important because it catch Temporal Flux's full feature. That is the same as others like CT:R, which is the first games using different engine source(is it unreal engine right?) combine with whole 3D aspect and amazing music remix/composotion by tssf.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Kahran042 on May 31, 2009, 01:25:15 am
Really? What are some that don't suck, may I ask?
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: FaustWolf on May 31, 2009, 01:26:53 am
Kahran, I'd suggest Chrono Symphonic and the Chrono Cross Audio Drama for starters.
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Kahran042 on May 31, 2009, 01:47:35 am
Chrono Symphonic: I have little, if any, interest in fan music.

Audio Drama: Sounds somewhat interesting. Where can I find it?
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Chrono'99 on May 31, 2009, 04:36:45 am
There was also Chrono Trigger: Prophet's Guile >_>
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: V_Translanka on May 31, 2009, 12:55:40 pm
And the 2 retranslations and a shitton of fanfics I would consider good enough to call fan Projects...We need a new Project ZEAL, as I've been saying since it got derailed...If you count CE, CTRP an CT:R then you should certainly count all of the CURRENT unfinished Projects as well...
Title: Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
Post by: Chronocrossed on June 09, 2009, 03:55:57 am
Chrono Symphonic: I have little, if any, interest in fan music.

Audio Drama: Sounds somewhat interesting. Where can I find it?

Hi, I am the creator/director of "Chrono Cross: Faraway Promise/Promise Kept" (even play a few parts in it) .  I don't post here on a normal basis but was browsing through topics and was glad to see there was interest in listening to the audio drama.  You can find both for download here on the Compendium located in the Editorials & Features section, thanks to Zeality.  Hope you enjoy listening.  

Slightly off the point, but maybe I will resume work on the sequel project or the Chrono Trigger audio project one day.  Though with these cease and desist letters going out on the fan games, I fear audio projects may be next in line of being shut down.  Well let's hope not.

All the best,

-Ben Harmer