Chrono Compendium
Enhasa Halls - Chrono Series Analysis => Chrono Trigger DS Analysis => Topic started by: Mr Bekkler on April 20, 2009, 03:04:34 pm
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So the first time in 2300 ad, I went through the Sewers before racing Johnny and at the other end I found Belthasar and his Nu. Belthasar was alive! I don't remember that from the SNES version, and was just wondering if anyone else noticed.
He was talking about how he missed Schala and asked the team if they'd seen his work, the Blackbird, etc.
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He was alive in the SNES version - actually in all versions for that matter. He doesn't die until you come back later for the Epoch, and you find his Nu there to which he has transferred his memory into.
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Yup, that was most definitely there in the SNES version. When I first rented it, I thought for some reason you were supposed to go through the sewers. Boy, was Sir Krawlie hellish to fight at that point.
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Yeah, I thought that too. Actually it's easier to clear the sewers first so you don't have to do it later.
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First time I played, also went through the sewers first, but didn't entered the dome.
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That kind of depends on your definition of "easier"...I mean, you still have to eventually go through it at one point...If you do it later you'll be at higher levels so wouldn't it be "easier" that way? Most battles down there can be avoided though so I don't see a problem either way. It's nice sometimes to do it later because there's one little dialog trigger before you go down a level in the sewers that normally you'd only get to see Marle & Lucca's, but if you save it for later you can have a different party (though it's not a great big hunk of dialog...I think everyone basically says that it's creepy or something)...
And, yeah, I didn't know people didn't know he was alive at that point...I mean, people in the domes kind of talk about the crazy guy living at the other end of the sewers or whatever...
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...I mean, people in the domes kind of talk about the crazy guy living at the other end of the sewers or whatever...
Which is why I went to the sewers first, even before going down to find the seeds (I had a really hard time, too)
I wonder though: how did people know Belthasar was living in that Dome? I mean, these huge, strong beasts were roaming the sewers, and the sick people in that period couldn't have gone through Krawlie to visit the old man and have some tea with him and hear him mumble about his past, right?
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Well, it wasn't that they went to him, but rather Belthasar must have visited the Arris Dome before he went there.
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And they just assume that he made it safely through the sewers and is still alive?
Also, how long do you think Belthasar lived in that dome alone (well, with the Nu)?
Or how long people lived during those bleak times?
Kinda random, pointless questions, but I'm a curious gal (and being incredibly bored doesn't help matters much)
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I think going through the sewers when you first get the chance just adds more to the story.
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And they just assume that he made it safely through the sewers and is still alive?
Also, how long do you think Belthasar lived in that dome alone (well, with the Nu)?
Or how long people lived during those bleak times?
Kinda random, pointless questions, but I'm a curious gal (and being incredibly bored doesn't help matters much)
1) He crossed the #32 Ruins already by just reaching Arris Dome. You think the people will have a doubt that he crossed the sewers safely?
2) Not sure on this one, but probably months already considering the time it took him to build the dome.
3) Look at Doan, old enough to be a grandfather, and still alive. Hardly he would be the only one to reach that age.
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Yeah I remember I got so annoyed at that point. I couldn't figure out what to do and I went through the sewers and ended just going back thinking there is nothing here only to find I wasted a lot of time on nothing.
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3) Look at Doan, old enough to be a grandfather, and still alive. Hardly he would be the only one to reach that age.
Doan might look old, but that doesn't necessarily mean he is old. When subject to disease, malnutrition, and adverse weather conditions, people's bodies will age faster than normal. He could be in his thirties or forties for all we know.
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2) Not sure on this one, but probably months already considering the time it took him to build the dome.
The idea of him building the dome never once entered my mind. I always assumed he settled there because it was abandoned, and maybe spruced it up a bit to fit his purpose.
How could he have built the entire thing by himself? Or maybe he got help from the Nu (properly equipped with a toolbelt and a helmet :D)?
Hey, where did he get that Nu from? :o
(alas, the random, pointless questions continue...)
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2) Not sure on this one, but probably months already considering the time it took him to build the dome.
The idea of him building the dome never once entered my mind. I always assumed he settled there because it was abandoned, and maybe spruced it up a bit to fit his purpose.
How could he have built the entire thing by himself? Or maybe he got help from the Nu (properly equipped with a toolbelt and a helmet :D)?
Hey, where did he get that Nu from? :o
(alas, the random, pointless questions continue...)
Along with theirs answers...
1) Magic? I don't know this one.
2) Well, the Nu from that sealed pyramid mentions about soon reuniting with Belthasar. Don't know much about this, but it may hint it's the same Nu.
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If the bridges were down it would have been relatively easy for anyone to visit Belthasar, really...I assume that if he was visiting one of the other domes that he would have had them down (though he might have put them back up after he came back)...And we know that they weren't always up because of those ever so helpful frogs...
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2) Not sure on this one, but probably months already considering the time it took him to build the dome.
The idea of him building the dome never once entered my mind. I always assumed he settled there because it was abandoned, and maybe spruced it up a bit to fit his purpose.
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Translation_Differences.html#Belthasar_Revelation
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2) Not sure on this one, but probably months already considering the time it took him to build the dome.
The idea of him building the dome never once entered my mind. I always assumed he settled there because it was abandoned, and maybe spruced it up a bit to fit his purpose.
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Translation_Differences.html#Belthasar_Revelation
Oh, that explains it. Damn translation errors.
Gonna have to go through the Retranslation yet again (yay, an excuse to play CT once more while I wait for CE to be released :mrgreen:)
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Meh, its an understandable mistake (and translation error). After all, there was a dome in the general location when Lavos surfaced in 1999 (maybe), the dome that Belthasar constructed looks exactly like the dilapidated domes everywhere else, and one would normally expect Belthasar to construct something a bit more... Zealean.
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It's still possible though the new translation that he could have rebuilt a heavily damaged dome or some such...but w/e. And perhaps he didn't want it to stick out too much (seeing how he knows what Lavos did with the last Zealian structures :lol:)...and then there's the doorways which are pretty Zealian...
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Maybe Square just didn't have the time to sprite a radically different/Zealian dome for Belthasar.
Although, he was already pretty old before the Ocean Palace incident (unless that's another case of lazy spriting). Perhaps he just didn't have the energy and resources to build a polished, complete dome. He would have needed to use damaged parts scavenged from other domes. The place would look very shoddy, at best.
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Probably put most of his effort into the seals, the Nu, the Poyozos &...y'know...that little time machine thing...
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Oh dang, of all the times I have played through CT, I never tried to visit Keeper dome before I went to 12,000 BC. I want to talk to Belthasar!
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Wow this got big while I was gone. Question answered though, he was there in the snes version. I guess I never went all the way there, or else I just flat deemed it unimportant and forgot. It definitely adds to the story though, like fusion said. You basically witness the last moments of his life. Or, you're the last human contact he has in his life. He seems obsessed with Schala, even at this point. Before you see her in-game and before the idea for Cross even came up in the minds of the creators. That's pretty intense.
You have to wonder though, if he was in the other domes, why didn't he try to help any of those people, or try to get them to help him, for that matter? Perhaps the domes just have some kind of communication link or radio signal or something leftover.
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I think he was focused on saving the world by creating the time machine for "them" (the heroes he somehow knew would come) to find and thus save everyone with...Plus he's insane.
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...Plus he's insane.
:lol:
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And I doubt that, if there is a communication link, that the people used it.
When the trio cross the ruins to the dome the first time, the people of Arris Dome were surprised to knew there were survivors other than themselves.
...Plus he's insane.
:lol:
That would be by the time you first meet him, but certainly he wasn't at first. At first.
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The people were kind of safe in the domes; it's just that there was barely any food. So how could Belthasar help them? He didn't seem to have much more food than them either.
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The people were kind of safe in the domes; it's just that there was barely any food. So how could Belthasar help them? He didn't seem to have much more food than them either.
Going with the "He crossed the labs and visited the domes" theory, we'd have to assume he'd be able to hold his own in battles, so he could have very well gotten the seed for Doan way before Crono&co get there. The fact that he didn't makes me think he was never in those domes. He stayed wherever he ended up after the OPI and built his dome right there. Which makes me think the only way the others could know there was a crackpot in that dome, or even that there was a dome, would be some form of radio or phone or telecommunicator or whatever. It would only take one short conversation to confirm, yes, he's there and yes, he's nuts.
Belthasar-"Hello, out there? I found this device, I believe it's for communication."
Young Doan-"Yes, oh god, yes. There's someone here! There are people here! Tell me, who are you?"
B-"Oh, I'm Belthasar! Thank you for asking! Have you heard of me?"
D-"What? No! Are you hurt, sir?"
B-"No, no, I'm just fine. Here with my Nu. How are you doing on your end?"
D-"Dude, we're fucking starving! Do you have any food?!"
B-"Nope. Just my Nu. Have you ever met a Nu?"
D-"This guy's fuckin crazy. How do I turn this phone off? Yeah, fine, just pull out the cable, we do not want to talk to this guy again!"
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Actually in that one flashback where you see the Guru's disappearing in the black gates, you see Belthasar ending up in a dome. So either he ended up in one of the other domes and crossed the ruins, or he didn't build Keeper's Dome and ended up there immediately.
I don't know how Belthasar is in battle, but I think he crossed the ruins, arrived at Arris Dome, asked around about Zeal, and obviously everyone thought he was crazy. He then realized he was in the future and found out about Lavos. As for why he didn't get the seed; I'd think plotting to save history, so future is also saved, was more important to him. He's not as cheerful as Chrono & co who just try it for the hell of it, and he probably thought those people would be saved anyway if history is changed.
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You can pretty much avoid every battle in the first ruins...He's a genius as well, so I'm sure he could have figured ways around monsters' hiding spots. Might also be easier to avoid detection if you're one instead of three.
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I second Dark Serge's analysis. Take the plot of Cross for example: Belthasar clearly has no problem with weighing the lives of thousands just to suit what he views as a moral action. He was probably unconcerned with the people in the domes because he realized that if he could somehow build a time machine, then either him or someone else could prevent this future from ever existing and all of those people would never exist in the first place anyways.
So, you're an old man and you're stranded in the future and you are the sole person who has the knowledge of how to build a time travelling device - what do you do? Do you waste your time trying to help the hopelessly starving people of the world, or do you put all of your energy and resources into the building of that time machine? A moral decision - Belthasar would have to weigh the lives of thousands against the entire future of the planet, a decision which he clearly has no trouble making again during Cross.
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All right, so hold on a minute.
It's still possible though the new translation that he could have rebuilt a heavily damaged dome or some such...but w/e. And perhaps he didn't want it to stick out too much (seeing how he knows what Lavos did with the last Zealian structures :lol:)...and then there's the doorways which are pretty Zealian...
Since you're citing the door as evidence...
What about the same exact doors found in the other domes, hm? Did he just stick around in the other areas to randomly build doors? Are they random doors from Zeal that people dug up and put in their domes, only to find that they couldn't open them? That doesn't seem very probable...
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I thought I was one of the ones saying that it was completely plausible that Belthasar could have traveled between areas...? Thus, he kept stores of his neat junk all over...Heck, maybe he got the Nu to do it.
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I thought I was one of the ones saying that it was completely plausible that Belthasar could have traveled between areas...? Thus, he kept stores of his neat junk all over...Heck, maybe he got the Nu to do it.
Yeah, I'm just wondering how the doors got there since no one actually says that Belthasar put them there. At least, I don't remember anyone actually crediting him with putting them there. Isn't the only Belthasar reference the one where they talk about how he's living near Death Peak?
How would he have put them there without anyone noticing/before anyone could remember? He hasn't been there THAT long.
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The ones who talk about the doors just mention how they can't open them. From the way they say it, it doesn't seem they were built recently.
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The doors can be old but still a creation of Belthasar. It is likely that Belthasar arrived in the future more than ten years before 2,300 AD, perhaps even twenty years before, if he spent the same amount of time in the future than Janus did in the Middle Ages.
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The domes were created sometime around/before 1999. The "Director" also seems fully aware of Lavos, and they even had a "ShelterDome". If my memory serves correctly, there was a bridge that needed the code you got from the rat, that led only to a Zealian door.
Why would only that door need a code, when all of the other doors are accessible? Argh, Belthasar playin' mind games. :x
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Wow.....gotta say I'm surprised. I figured it was a given that everyone knew he was there. Hell my first two times playing CT I thought that you HAD to go there during the first trip to 2300 AD. If anything for people that skip going there I'd have thought that your characters having a flashback to a scene you skipped may have been the hint that something was missed along the way :lol:
Not saying anyone is dumb mind you.....as I said I'm just surprised ^_~
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Actually in that one flashback where you see the Guru's disappearing in the black gates, you see Belthasar ending up in a dome. So either he ended up in one of the other domes and crossed the ruins, or he didn't build Keeper's Dome and ended up there immediately.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btEs0hVncDc&feature=relmfu
Belthasar appears at 1:44. Which dome do you think it is?
Anyway, Keeper's Dome is located in the same spot Melchior's Hut is located at year 1000. Maybe he found the leftovers and used them to complete his investigations.