Chrono Compendium
Enhasa Halls - Chrono Series Analysis => Lavos, the Planet, and other Entities => Topic started by: Lakonthegreat on November 21, 2008, 03:18:59 am
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Ok so I'm playing through CT today, and I noticed something peculiar.
First of all, For Lavos to be visible to the naked eye through a sunny sky in the middle of the day in 65,000,000 BC, one can assume he's pretty damned big.
When he falls, he hits the Tyrano Lair, whatever. However, if you notice, the sprite of him obliterating the Tyrano Lair is MUCH smaller than the sprite he uses when bursting from the ground.
So this is my question I guess, and it may sound stupid, but I believe it's a valid question. One can assume that Lavos grows when he's in the earth correct? Well if its sprite is that small when it falls, and it immediately falls into a pocket dimension, then how would it be able to grow? This assumes that its pocket dimension exists outside of the normal timeline. Wouldn't it be more feasible to assume that perhaps Schala actually forces Lavos into a PD after the Ocean Palace incident, rather than it creating one the instant it falls?
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Either way, why couldn't Lavos grow inside the PD?
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Well I just assumed that huis pocket dimension would work basically the way God does in our Universe, existing outside of time.
I guess what my theory depends on is does time actually pass in the PD?
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Well, we see that Lavos is capable of seemingly traveling through time within the PD, which would make sense if it was to gather DNA from various sources or w/e...
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Then again, the party's overworld sprites are also a lot larger than they are in reality (I mean, c'mon! They're as big as a friggin house!). It is only natural to assume the same for Lavos.
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Yeah, but Lavos has the two overworld sprites...The arrival & the arising.
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I would assume that he grows while in the earth. I mean, we see that the Lavos spawn start out small and Lavos would possibly have to grow to contain the "pinnacle of evolution" that it exists to create.
(No way a Lavos spawn could comfortably hold the Lavos Core inside of it.
Also. I wonder if the two types of unique monsters Lavos creates during the shell battle are the Lavos spawn at earlier stages.... (they have the same beak/eye feature as Lavos)
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That's a valid theory. Can anyone look into it?
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No way a Lavos spawn could comfortably hold the Lavos Core inside of it.
Why not...? The shell seems like it could be hollow enough to fit a Core...
(http://www.chronocompendium.com/images/wiki/7/70/Lavos_Sprites.gif)
The one "walking" one looks like it could be some offshoot of the Spawn or something, I guess...The mouth/eye/whatever looks similar...the shoulder mounted Azala clone one though doesn't really look it...I think they were just specified biological constructs created specifically to mimic the attacks of whatever mode Lavos enters...
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Maybe the Core doesn't look how it does until the spawns are a certain 'age'?
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Is there any in game evidence that when Lavos immerges, it does so entirely? It's possible that it's just the "head" of Lavos peeking out from its burrow.
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It is my belief that the Lavos Spawn came from the original Lavos...as in they grew inside it and once the process was complete, the original Lavos died off and lived through the spawn. Kind of like the creatures from Tremors 2.
edited to please head mistress V....
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No way a Lavos spawn could comfortably hold the Lavos Core inside of it.
Why not...? The shell seems like it could be hollow enough to fit a Core...
Well I know it has a core. I just meant that the Lavos Spawn, as we see them in the game, cannot hold the fully developed core like the one we see in the game - so it would make sense that Lavos grows while in the planet.
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edited to please head mistress V....
No need to get all testes.
But whether you fight him in 12000 BC or 1999 AD he still looks the same size...
That's...not what this discussion is about...It would be his growth from 65,000,000BC to 12,000BC that's being talked about here. After that, I suspect, it's mostly about gathering DNA...or else the shell is just formed first...Lavos grows from the outside in??? >_>
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Well, it's still on topic (and besides, in the Analysis forums, as long as it's still analytical in nature, discussions usually flow as they will), but both eruptions use the same sprite...The variation comes from Lavos' landing and then the subsequent times he arises...>_>
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Maybe in the PD a lot of time passed before OP, or maybe Lavos had already matured into that form/size before the Antiquity period.
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What about the size of the lavos spawns on Death Peak(?) They aren't much bigger than the party. I can't remember how big the sprite is when he destroys the tyranno lair, but if the spawns are that small when you're fighting them (the ones on the mountian) couldn't one assume that is the form it was in when it fell and it grows larger from there?
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Well, you could, but the sprite of Lavos flying through space doesn't exactly look like a Spawn...Though I guess it's kind of hard to tell...It could, or it could have grown some during its travels in space even...It's kind of up in the air, really...
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What about the size of the lavos spawns on Death Peak(?) They aren't much bigger than the party. I can't remember how big the sprite is when he destroys the tyranno lair, but if the spawns are that small when you're fighting them (the ones on the mountian) couldn't one assume that is the form it was in when it fell and it grows larger from there?
yea I think the same way, pretty much.
1. Parent reaches evolutionary peak with available resources.
2. Rises, eliminates immediate threats to its spawn. (destroys world)
3. Gives birth to spawn.
4. Lives on or dies (who knows)
5. Spawn slowly grows.
6. When they reach some unknown point of maturity they leave the "nest".
7. They find a new "nest" (either homing in on life-bearing planets, or randomly wandering through space)
8. Rinse, repeat
Looking at the sprites, Lavos in 65mil BC looks like it would be bigger than the spawn we see in the game, but much smaller than the fully matured Lavos we see erupt in 1999AD.
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3. Gives birth to spawn.
4. Lives on or dies (who knows)
5. Spawn slowly grows.
I'll combine those with my theory, Lavos dies while giving birth, who then in turn feed on the dead carcass and grow.
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It's also difficult to tell because map sprites are off-kilter (Crono & Co. are bigger than houses...!)...>_>
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If anything, how does Lavos launch his spawn out into space?
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If anything, how does Lavos launch his spawn out into space?
The Mother Brain in Geno Dome mentions that one day the spawn will take to the stars to search for other worlds. <--- Paraphrase.
The impression I get is that Lavos has nothing to do with it - each spawn will launch itself when it's mature enough. We know from CT:DS that the Elder Lavos Spawn is able to time travel - so it isn't off the wall to say that the spawn can provide their own propulsion into space.
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The middle bit had psychic powers.
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well i believe that it had been feeding off the planet slowly bringing it to the point when the ice age began again in the "future" its feeding off animals etc to pick dna as described. i don't see any reason why it wouldn't be growing larger, we can most definitely assume so as the lavos spawn are not nearly as large as the "main" lavos. lavos is a planet destroyer and I do not see it escaping the planet. My guess is that the needles on it can be shot off as spawn. also about the size when fighting lavos' first form iit would seem to me that its showing only a small fraction of it's body equivalent to head and shoulders distance.
also about the core i think that the 3 parts are all lavos but are actually separate beings in that they do not share a single consciousness.
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I've heard a theory that Death Peak itself is actually Lavos's body.
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Maybe papa Lavos launches the Spawn when he's fully matured. Who says the Lavos in the game is fully matured? He doesn't look that big. In the final fight, you don't see the whole body but it looks like you see the whole width on screen. It does take several million years to drain the planet.
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If anything, how does Lavos launch his spawn out into space?
The Mother Brain in Geno Dome mentions that one day the spawn will take to the stars to search for other worlds. <--- Paraphrase.
The impression I get is that Lavos has nothing to do with it - each spawn will launch itself when it's mature enough. We know from CT:DS that the Elder Lavos Spawn is able to time travel - so it isn't off the wall to say that the spawn can provide their own propulsion into space.
Well, we're still not sure that that spawn inside the Black Omen was able to time travel. We just know through some method of either time or dimensional travel it was brought in front of you. I'm more a proponent of the possibility that the Queen brought the spawn there.
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If anything, how does Lavos launch his spawn out into space?
The Mother Brain in Geno Dome mentions that one day the spawn will take to the stars to search for other worlds. <--- Paraphrase.
The impression I get is that Lavos has nothing to do with it - each spawn will launch itself when it's mature enough. We know from CT:DS that the Elder Lavos Spawn is able to time travel - so it isn't off the wall to say that the spawn can provide their own propulsion into space.
Looking at a Lavos Spawn, it seems likely that it would generate some sort of anti-gravity field to leave the planet.
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Maybe the beam Lavos uses to kill Crono is actually the equivalent of a biological jet engine?
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Then that means they actually travel in reverse. Who knows.
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You guys are rude! >:(
On a serious note, we have those city-domes to compare Lavos to. Lavos being smaller when you fight him can be attributed to conservation of detail.
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I know his actual size...... but there's children here so I dare not say any more.
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Well, Lavos' size is not depicted consistently in the game, so we can't really use that as a marker. First you see and fight the whole thing from outside, then you go inside the core - which on the screen is depicted even larger than the shell.
Realistically, something with the power to raze an entire planet would have to be pretty freaking huge. Consider this: what if a Lavos spawn was depicted to be about the same size as Lavos itself was depicted in original canon. How large would the parent be? Consider how large the asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs on Earth was. If Lavos was at least that large at the time of its impact, and it grew since then, how large would it be by 1999 A.D.?
Personally, I envision a colossus at least six miles high and about ten miles wide, and that's a conservative estimate. Why so big? Well, what would you rather see in a movie adaptation? Something the size of your college dorm? Or something the size of Mt. Everest?
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Honestly, judging by just how big those city-domes must be, I figure that Lavos is probably about half as wide as Manhattan. All things considered, that's abso-fucking-lutely HUGE. Lavos is big enough to eat Godzilla like a hotwing, were that the sort of food Lavos was into. As we all know, being the planet-sucker it is, such is not the case. I remember seeing somewhere that there was a debate about the size of the Black Omen, and it was, through a bit of estimation, that it was about as wide as Manhattan island, and the Lavos sprite that's used during the eruptions is about half that particular dimension.
Very, very rough estimates, but it makes the visualization all the grander, don't you think?
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Ok so I'm playing through CT today, and I noticed something peculiar.
First of all, For Lavos to be visible to the naked eye through a sunny sky in the middle of the day in 65,000,000 BC, one can assume he's pretty damned big.
When he falls, he hits the Tyrano Lair, whatever. However, if you notice, the sprite of him obliterating the Tyrano Lair is MUCH smaller than the sprite he uses when bursting from the ground.
So this is my question I guess, and it may sound stupid, but I believe it's a valid question. One can assume that Lavos grows when he's in the earth correct? Well if its sprite is that small when it falls, and it immediately falls into a pocket dimension, then how would it be able to grow? This assumes that its pocket dimension exists outside of the normal timeline. Wouldn't it be more feasible to assume that perhaps Schala actually forces Lavos into a PD after the Ocean Palace incident, rather than it creating one the instant it falls?
Actually, no; and here's why:
When Lavos falls to Earth in 65 billion BC or whatever; he falls into his pocket dimension as you call it. From here, you have to take on faith a few things: The fact that Lavos has done this many times before with other planets and the fact that he knows enough to do it well.
The reason he chose the pocket dimension was because it allows him to access all time periods at once; much like the End of Time PD that Gaspar fell into. Therefore, Lavos technically exists in all times and the same time and at the same time as existing in none of them. His growth is not based in time; but based in consumption. Therefore; for him to emerge from the ground in one time period specifically shows intent and thought on his part; and planning.
Lots of theories about why he popped up in Zeal and I think the most pertinent one is that Zeal powers Lavos at the same time as he powers Zeal. That is the deal between them. The Mammon Machine helps give Lavos power and Zeal helps Lavos which is why he tolerates her. He popped up; in both version of that past; at the time that people were gathered to put a stop to Zeal's bid for power. He came when she called and when he saw his targets; both times; disappear into their respective time rifts; he got angry and threw a temper tantrum.
as for 1999 AD; that's an easy one. When you travel to the future; 2300 A.D.; everything is ruins thanks to Lavos' work in 1999. Nobody has added anything new technologically since that time. Therefore, it stands to reason that Lavos erupted out of the ground in 1999 to attempt to destroy knowledge of himself from the minds of the people because he knew that the possibility of his defeat lay in that information. The information Crono and crew come across in their bid to get back to the present.
So, no; neither Schala or Janus succeeded in sending Lavos to a PD by summoning him. He chose to be in it. This is reinforced when you go to Tyranno Lair to fight Lavos shortly after he landed and found instead a gate to Zeal.
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huge...