Chrono Compendium

Enhasa Halls - Chrono Series Analysis => Characters, Plot, and Themes => Topic started by: Insane on November 13, 2008, 04:34:34 pm

Title: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: Insane on November 13, 2008, 04:34:34 pm
This just occured to me. If I'm right, accents are passed on through genes, exactly like hair colour, eye colour, etc. And, to my understanding, a clone is an exact replica of someone or osmethings genetic code.

Ok, so Kidd is a clone of Schala, yes? The way she talks is the Austrailian Sterotype (sp?). Normally, this would mean she has an Austraillian accent, or at the very least, an austraillian upbringing.

So, considering all of this, I have two questions:

Presuming that Zeallians have an accent, would it be Austraillian, if you take what I said into account?
Or, failing that, and given that Lucca rasied her, are the CT/CC team Australlian?
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: mav on November 13, 2008, 04:57:43 pm
Well, accents aren't genetic, it's a regional thing: if you take a child who is genetically Chinese and raise him (from birth) in America, he's going to have an American accent. Babies babble in all languages, they tune out the sounds that they don't hear when they're growing and eventually develop the sounds/accents/language that they grow up hearing. So the Chinese child, hearing American accents more than Chinese accents will have an American accent, while being to speak both English and have the ability to speak Chinese (if they've been exposed to it long enough). Phonetically a person has to have the ability to speak a certain language, and then be in the region long enough to eventually pick up that accent (although the exposure to that accent would have to be quite long).

That being said, I feel like Kidd's accent is probably not genetic, but I definitely don't think it's the same accent that Crono and co had...so I can't say I know why she speaks the way she does, it depends on where she grew up or what accent she was exposed to and how long.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: V_Translanka on November 13, 2008, 07:24:08 pm
Yeah, and it's pretty uncontested that Zeal is based on Atlantis. Did she even have an "Australian" accent in the Japanese version? Wasn't it just some kind of "low" speech or something (to signify her improper upbringing?)? I may be remembering wrong...I know Harle didn't have a French accent...
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: mav on November 13, 2008, 08:07:29 pm
I was gonna ask the same thing--I always felt like the accents were just a quirk by the localization team, in a somewhat strange attempt to make the game seem a little less...regional.

I was just reading RPGamer's Chrono Cross review (http://www.rpgamer.com/games/chrono/ccross/reviews/ccrossrdrev3.html) and found this:
Quote from: RPGamer
The game translators have implemented an automatic accent-generating program. That means, the text was translated normally, but the program changes it to fit the appropriate character's accent in real time. Some of the accents are very nicely done. Others, like the French accents, are incredibly annoying.

Unlike CT, which gave each character specific dialog, CC used this generator to differentiate between the characters, to some extent. So I'd expect it to have just been a move pulled by the developers, they probably chose an Australian accent due to its recognizable and somewhat improper-sounding nature. If they just made her speech sound improper, it might just come off as unintelligent.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: V_Translanka on November 13, 2008, 08:12:49 pm
Well, I mean, there's a regional dialect in Japan that's attributed that way...Something that would differentiate someone from the city & the country-like...I'm fairly sure anyways...I don't know all the specific words for these things though (or else I constantly forget them as I'm told)...V_V
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: mav on November 13, 2008, 08:25:07 pm
Well, isn't Japanese a very respect-based, formal language? Mind you, I know nothing about Japanese, but wouldn't word choice indicate Kidd's ruddy upbringing? So they wouldn't need an accent to prove anything, right? Fuck it, I don't really know.

But why would Zeal have Australian accents? If anything they'd have a very very formal, classy, and possibly pretentious accent. I'm not saying an Australian accent is the equivalent of crap, but it doesn't seem to suit all the Enlightened Ones perfectly...
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: utunnels on November 14, 2008, 04:45:45 am
Well, about accent, because English is not my native language, so I just can't tell whether it is strange or not(sometimes I have to use a dictionary even if the speech is in a formal way). XD
I know nothing about Japanese either, but there're a lot of translators available. I don't have the Japanese script of CC, but in RD, Kidd uses 'オレ' to call herself, which is supposed to be used by a man.

BTW, Harle form CC and Pollon(or the sunflower) from RD both speak with strong French accent, maybe they both stand for someone's dark side? I remember in the original Japanese script of RD, it metioned several times that Kidd's expression looks just like the sunflower(at the end of the sunflower scenario).

Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: Dark Serge on November 14, 2008, 12:30:00 pm
In the CC Developer Ending it's indeed stated that they used an accent generator. I wish I knew the system behind it, so I could use it for my own games. It was pretty amazing.

Kid having an australian accent is just because it fits her tomboyish character. I don't think it has anything to do with Zeal whatsoever.

On a side note, I also thought Harle's accent was annoying, but it did fit her very well.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: mav on November 14, 2008, 02:47:00 pm
Harle's accent wasn't just annoying...it was done pretty poorly, in my opinion. I know we all know that moi means me, but "Moi is" is a terrible way to start a sentence. But I do agree with what you said Dark Serge, about the accent being used to fill out her tomboy-nature.

As for Harle and the sunflower, both characters are somewhat eccentric and French is a fairly flamboyant accent, so it seems to extenuate the characters' nature. I mean, look at Pierre in CC, to make him seem like a nancy boy they through a French accent at him. And to make some characters seem a little tougher, like the Red Dragon and Zappa, they gave 'em a very brutish Irish accent.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: Captain B on November 14, 2008, 03:42:18 pm
 I remember coming up with a theory like this once, but when I did it, it was a joke.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: TimeJammer81 on December 01, 2008, 01:05:02 am
And to make some characters seem a little tougher, like the Red Dragon and Zappa, they gave 'em a very brutish Irish accent.

Zappa always sounded a lot more Scottish than Irish.

Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: Dark Serge on December 01, 2008, 04:18:16 am
And to make some characters seem a little tougher, like the Red Dragon and Zappa, they gave 'em a very brutish Irish accent.

Zappa always sounded a lot more Scottish than Irish.



Yeah in fact he talks more scottish then english as well. There were some times I could not understand what he was saying.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: mav on December 01, 2008, 07:14:19 pm
Whoops, it's been a while...that's the kinda mistake I shouldn't have made.

Anyhow, Zappa's accent wasn't too bad...not like that Mermaid or Luccia. Reading became a chore with those ladies.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: Dark Serge on December 02, 2008, 01:26:50 pm
Yeah hence why I never went back to recruit Lucca Luccia. She's probably still waiting for me in Viper Manor. And Irenes, well, I had to recruit her in order to save Marbule. :(
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: chrono eric on December 02, 2008, 11:04:49 pm
I remember coming up with a theory like this once, but when I did it, it was a joke.

I thought this entire thread was a joke until just a moment ago. Zeal = Australia? Seriously. As stated, obviously the inspiration for it came from the legend of Atlantis.

But I'll entertain the possibility for a moment, and I thought I would add this important point to disprove this Zeal = Australia theory rather than just talking crap about it:

When you go back to Lucca's orphanage in CC to save Kid, she doesn't talk with an Australian accent. Therefore, I was always under the impression that Kid gained the accent after the orphanage incident, when she was presumably forced to fend for herself, generally thieving it up around Zenan and dreaming radically and whatnot.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: yujinishuge on December 11, 2008, 11:15:52 am
The accents were dumb.  And entirely chauvanistic...  or.. like, America Centered.

Imagine if you actually were Australian and you played this game.  Everything you read would be in an Australian accent in your head.  Then when Kid comes along, you'd be all.. What's this?  Or.. "Wot's iss?"  HAAHA j/k

But seriously.. by putting all those accents in there, it is saying that American English is standard, and all else is not.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: Dark Serge on December 11, 2008, 02:15:57 pm
I think the accents gave more depth to the characters... Imagine Fargo not talking like a pirate but like a perfect english gentlemen like everyone else... Same goes for Zappa, and so many other characters with nice accents
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: mav on December 11, 2008, 02:56:45 pm
I agree, some of the characters were highlighted well by their accents, but others just seemed too stereotypical. But as far as Kidd's accent goes, I'd assume that most Australians would look at her accent and easily recognize that it's supposed to a less classy-sounding Australian accent--it's got that Steve Irwin, adventure-seeking, boisterous voice. I mean, you can still picture some of the other characters with whatever accent you want, but the one's with stereotypical ones were done pretty purposefully.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: yujinishuge on December 11, 2008, 03:19:48 pm
I'd assume that most Australians would look at her accent and easily recognize that it's supposed to a less classy-sounding Australian accent--it's got that Steve Irwin, adventure-seeking, boisterous voice.


People who actually speak with that accent don't spell differently  (except for the common USA GB differences like armour and armor etc).

I speak American English, and since that is standard to me, if I wanted to spell things differently to indicate that one of my characters is speaking American English, I wouldn't know how, because when I read things written properly, in my head they sound like American English.

Oi kud vary issaly troi ta toipe bri'ish occent thay... (I could very easily try to type a british accent though)  by simply highlighting what I personally percieve the differences are between my spoken language (American Standard English) and a british accent.

British people on the other hand would rightfully be angry that that silly spelling I put in there is supposed to represent them, yet the language that they all know (normally spelled english) represents Americans.

I can't imagine that Aussies were pleased with Kid's "accent"

If they had done it with voice actors that'd be one thing, but they change spelling to achieve it, which basically says one type of english is standard. and all others are dialects.

 
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: Dark Serge on December 11, 2008, 04:47:59 pm
How else would they give Kid an australian accent? Since there's no voice acting, it would be impossible without changing the dialogue. I see it sometimes in books as well. I really can't understand how this would bother anyone. It's not like she talks entirely australian. She just has a slight australian accent with some words replaced.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: yujinishuge on December 11, 2008, 05:48:32 pm
How else would they give Kid an australian accent? Since there's no voice acting, it would be impossible without changing the dialogue. I see it sometimes in books as well. I really can't understand how this would bother anyone. It's not like she talks entirely australian. She just has a slight australian accent with some words replaced.

An Aussie would read what you just wrote and it would have an Aussie accent!  Don't you see what I am getting at?

Please, type an American accent for me.  Everything I read with correct spelling is in American accent.  I'm interested to see how one would indicate American accent by changing of spelling.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: mav on December 11, 2008, 06:01:59 pm
People who actually speak with that accent don't spell differently  (except for the common USA GB differences like armour and armor etc).
I never said they spell anything differently, but I do feel that the accent system in Chrono Cross was designed highlighted some of the stereotypical phonemes of certain accents. We can safely assume that all the accents were generated to sound different than whatever accent you use, even if they're from the same country. So an Australian can perceive all speech with an Australian accent and simply read Kidd's as from a different class or region.
Please, type an American accent for me.  Everything I read with correct spelling is in American accent.  I'm interested to see how one would indicate American accent by changing of spelling.
Well, let's make this clear, with all accents (even American accents), there are different regional dialects. There are different regional dialects for British accents as well, you have Scouse accents, Cockney accents (like the the one you tried to type), the Standard English accent, and many others. There isn't really too much different between the "American" accent and what the Standard English accent; you can't type out the differences because they're highlighted with pitch changes and slight phonetic tweaks.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: Dark Serge on December 11, 2008, 06:04:58 pm
How else would they give Kid an australian accent? Since there's no voice acting, it would be impossible without changing the dialogue. I see it sometimes in books as well. I really can't understand how this would bother anyone. It's not like she talks entirely australian. She just has a slight australian accent with some words replaced.

An Aussie would read what you just wrote and it would have an Aussie accent!  Don't you see what I am getting at?

Please, type an American accent for me.  Everything I read with correct spelling is in American accent.  I'm interested to see how one would indicate American accent by changing of spelling.

So you're saying Kid and Zappa's accents and all the others you read like american accents? O...k... I don't have that problem.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: yujinishuge on December 11, 2008, 06:16:57 pm


So you're saying Kid and Zappa's accents and all the others you read like american accents? O...k... I don't have that problem.

No, that's not what I am saying at all.  I'm saying that anything spelled correctly in English thas an american accent to me because I speak American English.  The same text, to someone who speaks British English, would have a British accent.

All this accent highlighting in Chrono Cross was done by changing spelling. 

It is impossible to write an American accent (for me) because standard English spelling (to me) indicates an American accent.

Australians who read things would read them how they say them.  Kid's Australian accent then is only Australian when read by non-Australians.   
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: Dark Serge on December 11, 2008, 06:20:46 pm
Well, wasn't that the whole point? It's the same as saying "If that guy talks to me in american english I'll recognize it but if he talks to me in australian I don't know what he's talking about." Obviously australians will recognize the accent, but all the others won't.

Oh well this discussion is pointless and uninteresting anyways
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: yujinishuge on December 11, 2008, 06:34:05 pm
People who actually speak with that accent don't spell differently  (except for the common USA GB differences like armour and armor etc).
I never said they spell anything differently, but I do feel that the accent system in Chrono Cross was designed highlighted some of the stereotypical phonemes of certain accents. We can safely assume that all the accents were generated to sound different than whatever accent you use, even if they're from the same country. So an Australian can perceive all speech with an Australian accent and simply read Kidd's as from a different class or region.

Please, type an American accent for me.  Everything I read with correct spelling is in American accent.  I'm interested to see how one would indicate American accent by changing of spelling.
Well, let's make this clear, with all accents (even American accents), there are different regional dialects. There are different regional dialects for British accents as well, you have Scouse accents, Cockney accents (like the the one you tried to type), the Standard English accent, and many others. There isn't really too much different between the "American" accent and what the Standard English accent; you can't type out the differences because they're highlighted with pitch changes and slight phonetic tweaks.


I don't know what it is, but you guys are totally missing the point.

OF Course there are different accents within the same country.  I could write something like "Ha Ma'am Ahm frum the Sawth! Ah cum frum Takesus!" (Hi Ma'am, I'm from the South I come from Texas.)  Sure sure.

I'm sure Texans, Brits, and Aussies could easly write something for what I sound like to them.

The point is, you need to have a point of reference for what is standard... (to me, that's the dialect of English which I grew up speaking, which is similar to the dialect used in news broadcasts on American TV).  Only then will the changes in spelling that I did to denote a seperate accent (similar to how it was done in CC) make sense.


Try to type something in what you think of as your own accent.  You can't.

You don't even think you have an accent.  Because that's how you talk.

Where is CC is the representation of an American accent?  Nowhere!  Why?  Because the ones who localized it were Americans!
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: yujinishuge on December 11, 2008, 06:40:03 pm
Well, wasn't that the whole point? It's the same as saying "If that guy talks to me in american english I'll recognize it but if he talks to me in australian I don't know what he's talking about." Obviously australians will recognize the accent, but all the others won't.

Oh well this discussion is pointless and uninteresting anyways

Talking is different from writing!  I'll clearly recognize those who speak to me the way I speak to them, and I'll also clearly recognize those who speak to me differently than I speak to them.  I'll still know what they are talking about. Regardless of how we say things, when we write, it will be exactly the same!

CC's localization is Americacentric which is all I was trying to say.

Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: mav on December 11, 2008, 07:19:46 pm
OF Course there are different accents within the same country.  I could write something like "Ha Ma'am Ahm frum the Sawth! Ah cum frum Takesus!" (Hi Ma'am, I'm from the South I come from Texas.)  Sure sure.

I'm sure Texans, Brits, and Aussies could easly write something for what I sound like to them.

The point is, you need to have a point of reference for what is standard... (to me, that's the dialect of English which I grew up speaking, which is similar to the dialect used in news broadcasts on American TV).  Only then will the changes in spelling that I did to denote a seperate accent (similar to how it was done in CC) make sense.
Alright, here's what I'm saying: the point is that we all perceive what we read in the standard accent of the country, we make the phonetic changes in our mind. An Australian reading Kidd's dialog will be able to tell that it's not the same exact accent that they're using. Just like an American could tell that your "Ha Ma'am Ahm frum the Sawth!" is an attempt at a Texan or Southern Accent. In fact, I live in Texas and I can tell that that is supposed to sound like a stereotypical Texan accent. Now, whether I, as a Texan, think that the "Sawth" quote was accurate is another story. And there isn't a representation of an American accent because you can't highlight the phonemes of an American accent the way you can with regional dialects.

The point of reference is in our heads, the British don't hear American voices when they read the dialog. And the only reason we think it's America-centric is cause we're American (I can't speak for any British people who've played CC, but I doubt it'd sound too farfetched to 'em). The game is Western-centric, to some extent; I don't think I heard them try to implement a British accent on anyone. That's cause they couldn't.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: yujinishuge on December 11, 2008, 07:37:55 pm
Quote
An Australian reading Kidd's dialog will be able to tell that it's not the same exact accent that they're using.

Anyone who reads it will think it's not the same accent they're using, because they would hopefully have learned by reading normal English.

 
Quote
Just like an American could tell that your "Ha Ma'am Ahm frum the Sawth!" is an attempt at a Texan or Southern Accent. In fact, I live in Texas and I can tell that that is supposed to sound like a stereotypical Texan accent. Now, whether I, as a Texan, think that the "Sawth" quote was accurate is another story.
Yes, exactly.  Now If the story or game I wrote had a guy who was supposed to be from Texas as the only one who's dialogue is represented that way, and meanwhile everyone else talks normally, you're going to think that me, the ignorant ass who wrote that, thinks that all Texans must speak like that.  (I've actually been to Texas and found that practically nobody spoke in that manner, Alabama on the other hand... yowza..)

Quote
And there isn't a representation of an American accent because you can't highlight the phonemes of an American accent the way you can with regional dialects.

Sure you can, provided that your spoken English isn't at all the Standard American (or close to it.)  Here, I'll try it, but it's increasingly hard cuz that's how i speak.

"I wiz wawkin' to da store tiday an I sawuh byootiful car.  I bedid cawsda milyun dalers."

Quote
The point of reference is in our heads, the British don't hear American voices when they read the dialog. And the only reason we think it's America-centric is cause we're American (I can't speak for any British people who've played CC, but I doubt it'd sound too farfetched to 'em). The game is Western-centric, to some extent; I don't think I heard them try to implement a British accent on anyone. That's cause they couldn't.

No SHIT!  The british would hear their own spoken language when they read the text!  That's what I have been saying all along!  So would the Aussies and so would anyone else.  Do Aussies hear themselves when they read Kid?  NO, they read what Americans think they sound like when regular spelling is standard American English.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: mav on December 11, 2008, 07:57:31 pm
Now If the story or game I wrote had a guy who was supposed to be from Texas as the only one who's dialogue is represented that way, and meanwhile everyone else talks normally, you're going to think that me, the ignorant ass who wrote that, thinks that all Texans must speak like that. 
I'd just see the character who speaks with that accent as having a much thicker Texan (well, Southern) accent, provided you are able to write the accent in with the proper phonetics.
No SHIT!  The british would hear their own spoken language when they read the text!  That's what I have been saying all along!  So would the Aussies and so would anyone else.  Do Aussies hear themselves when they read Kid?  NO, they read what Americans think they sound like when regular spelling is standard American English.
Alright, look, we already agree that we hear our native accents in all the characters.  You're assuming that just cause this one character has a highlighted Australian accent, that all Australian characters would sound that way. We don't even have proof that there are no other characters speaking with an Australian accent. Kidd's accent is supposed to sound stereotypical, but if I were an Australian and I felt that it was done poorly, then yes, I agree that it'd be an ignorant depiction of the accent, but I wouldn't assume that they think all Australians sound that way--just Kidd.
"I wiz wawkin' to da store tiday an I sawuh byootiful car.  I bedid cawsda milyun dalers."
The accent you provided for yourself isn't the Standard American accent, so how is that a representation of an American accent? It's a representation of your accent. Both the Standard American accent and the Standard English accent can pronounce the phonemes properly, it's the rise and change in pitch or tone that differentiates them...regional dialects, like the "Texan" accent we've used remove certain vowels and sounds in certain words, writing it out is just a chore.


Anyhow, I get what you're saying, if I were to read an accent that was done poorly (like Luccia's), then I'd see it as an ignorant depiction of that accent, especially if that was my accent. Kidd's wasn't too terrible though, I suppose that's where the fallout of this discussion came from.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: yujinishuge on December 12, 2008, 02:30:15 am
Well at least you see something in common. :P

BTW I speak standard American English.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: Stormsend on December 27, 2008, 11:49:44 am
You're all missing the larger point. Clearly Atlantis = Australia.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: mav on December 27, 2008, 01:50:23 pm
Well, most of us knew that already (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?topic=3767.0), but I think the author of this thread was talking about the accents alone--I mean, what does the accent of someone from Atlantis sound like anyway? CT didn't have the accent generator, thankfully, so we really don't have any indication of who had what accent.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: ZealKnight on January 06, 2009, 09:14:38 pm
Well actually, wasn't Atlantis theorized to be located near Australia for a while in 1999? Something about the climate being right. Still unlikely but maybe the translator saw that and thought it was a good idea. Although my memory seems like too perfect puzzle piece for this situation.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: mav on January 07, 2009, 01:54:39 pm
That's quite interesting. I suppose it's possible, and if not, it's one helluva coincidence, but Kid's accent isn't necessarily an indication of the accents used in Zeal, if I'm not mistaken. I believe she didn't have the accent when you see Kid as a child, it's likely something she picked up--a ruse to make herself seem a bit more brutish when she walked with the likes of other thieves.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: FouCapitan on January 11, 2009, 04:03:30 am
A lot of you need to learn what ebonics are.

Basically it's typing a word as it's pronounced to emphasize how an accented speech would be heard.

For example, typing in my own speech ebonics.

"I have no idea what yer talkin' about."

Very light, most words pronounced in standard English, but I say 'you're' as 'yer' and don't emphasize the 'g' in 'talking'.  Now going into a deeper accent from that, ebonics in a deep south accent.

"Ah have no idea what'cher talkin' 'bout."

Say it as it's written phonetically, and you have the rough outline of an accent.


Mark Twain was one of the first popular writers to utilize this writing mechanic, in books like "Tom Sawyer" and "Huckleberry Finn", and it's been a mainstay in literature since then.

I will say, however, that the accent generator was a terribly lazy thing for Square to have done back in that day.  Sure it saves a lot of script space, not having to have lines for over 40 characters in every single instance they're available, but it also deadens character depth, and eliminates damn near every unique line available.  How many of us play different games over and over again just to see how a different party reacts to any give situation?  Here there's no change except in a few certain scenarios, just different accents.

Also, adding umlauts over every vowel or 'CHA to the end of every sentance isn't an accent.  It's just stupid.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: mav on January 11, 2009, 03:34:37 pm
Ebonics? As in what's currently characterized as the African-American vernacular? It can be seen as an accent, and it's definitely not Standard English, I'll give you that. What you said reminds me of what I was saying earlier: what the accent generator in Cross attempted to do was apply an accent to the text, based entirely on phonetic sounds. Mark Twain pulled real vernacular into "Huck Finn" amazingly--if you look at Jim it's almost impossible to read and understand what he's saying, but if you sound out the phonetics, it's damn impressive--and I think the Cross writers wanted that same feel. By adding accents to the game, the characters were given very definitive and somewhat realistic feel...even if some of them were horrible stereotypical and poorly done at times.

The CHA accents were ridiculous though...I don't know if they were goin' for that Minnesotan accent or what...it was just weird. But, as annoying as it was, I do think it added some decent character to the people and gave them a rather unique culture.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: utunnels on January 11, 2009, 11:17:10 pm
The CHA accents were ridiculous though...I don't know if they were goin' for that Minnesotan accent or what...it was just weird. But, as annoying as it was, I do think it added some decent character to the people and gave them a rather unique culture.

Perhaps that's just because his name...just like goblins in RD add a "gobu" at the end of each sentence.
Or vice versa, their name came from their accent.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: FouCapitan on January 12, 2009, 03:43:55 am
**snipsnip**vernacular?**snipsnip**
That's the word I was looking for.  Thank you.  Ebonics was the only term I remembered from studying that.  (Way back in grade school.)
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: Schala Zeal on January 12, 2009, 04:36:36 am
Zeal is actually based off of commonly shared mythology between Aztecs, Japanese, etc. They talk of an advanced civilization (presumably technologically advanced... or in a way better than our current civilization) that was lost during the ice age, presumably from the ice melting and it sinking beneath the ocean. The Japanese version of the myth said it was a floating civilization, and hence, Chrono Trigger is Japanese-made. Though, if it flew, but was lost, it was lost due to massive condensation in the clouds. Clouds gather water, and after the ice age, they gathered so much water, it rained heavily and this civilization plummeted to earth because of the heavy rainfall.

This is just my theory though. As it is, explorers have discovered highly advanced ancient ruins off the coast of Japan, which could be a possible link. Also, remember that humanity has only explored 10% of the entire oceans on the planet. We know our own moon better than we do our oceans. Not to mention the Bermuda triangle could hold a possible key. My idea is possibly if there was such a civilization, it probably crashed there and left an effect on the body of water there. Everything that enters the triangle never returns. Even planes from WWII were discovered to have sunk to the ocean floor there.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: mav on January 12, 2009, 02:37:01 pm
Perhaps that's just because his name...just like goblins in RD add a "gobu" at the end of each sentence.
Or vice versa, their name came from their accent.
Good point--most of the characters from Guldove had their names end in cha: Korcha, Macha, Orcha, Belcha, etc. Then again, Mel, who is also from Guldove, uses CHA from time-to-time. I still think the way they speak is a cultural/environmental thing, but their names could just be an offshoot of the way they talk. Mel, for instance, is adopted but still uses the regional dialect, as that's where she grew up, but she doesn't have cha in her name (Melcha...what the fuck).

That's the word I was looking for.  Thank you.  Ebonics was the only term I remembered from studying that.  (Way back in grade school.)
Hah, glad I could help.

And that's one helluva theory Schala, I'm more interested in your thoughts on those civilizations and Bermuda Triangle), but I wouldn't doubt for a second that Zeal is based off a multitude of the ancient mythology, in reference to advanced civilizations. Many many aspects are probably borrowed from the Japanese interpretation of an advanced civilization, but I'm sure that with careful examination we could find parallels between Zeal and many rumored civilizations.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: Schala Zeal on January 13, 2009, 12:34:16 pm
I simply say if Zeal was real, but Lavos was not, it would still fall due to the end of the ice age... If not, could you imagine Nazi Germany wielding magic? Egh...not good.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: ZealKnight on January 17, 2009, 07:15:57 pm
I simply say if Zeal was real, but Lavos was not, it would still fall due to the end of the ice age... If not, could you imagine Nazi Germany wielding magic? Egh...not good.

I don't understand. If Lavos wasn't and lets assume humans defeated the reptites then they would be using the sun stone. How exactly would they fall? And what does Hitler have to do with this?
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: mav on January 18, 2009, 02:29:57 pm
I'm not exactly sure what Nazis have to do with any of this, maybe no "great" society will last forever? But I think Schala was hinting that Zeal was doomed to fall: although Lavos may have caused it, Zeal wouldn't have prospered through eternity--it would have ended regardless of what circumstance occurred, time simply made it end sooner than it may have.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: utunnels on January 18, 2009, 02:33:29 pm
Offtopic:

Yeah, speaking Atlantis and Nazis...it reminds me of this page: http://www.thesecretofbluewater.com/note12-i.htm#naz (http://www.thesecretofbluewater.com/note12-i.htm#naz)
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: FouCapitan on January 20, 2009, 01:52:55 am
If not, could you imagine Nazi Germany wielding magic? Egh...not good.
Well that's pretty much the plot of Hellboy right there.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: Bigvinu on January 21, 2009, 06:35:31 pm
Actually accents can be manipulated at a young age. For example, the child of immigrants will usually have a flawless accent but the immigrants themselves will have a hard time having a "proper" accent. Strictly speaking, accents would be influenced by what the child experiences at a young age.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: Foxx on January 27, 2009, 08:54:54 pm
ooohhh.... design changes since last I was here :shock:

anyways, who says that the people of The Kingdom of Zeal has an Australian accent?

Accents change due to not only the geography, but also to the people who live there...

In that regard, you must know that Australia back in the day was used as a prison for convicts. Convicts were sent there from the British Commonwealth back in the 18th and the 19th Century.
So in essence, Australia was "built" from poor people, the undertones of which you can find today in the common Australian accent. If you listen to anyone speaking w. the Aussie accent (Croc Dundee anyone?), you can hear that it's less formal than the ordinary British accent.

The KoZ, however is a place where the higher ranks of society lives, so i'd rather think they talk with a british-ish accent, while the ones on the ground, could in theory speak a less formal accent...

Also, as English is my second Language (Danish the first), and is mandatory from the 4th grade of school here in Denmark, I started learning the British accent, though while in 5th grade I had to move to Australia (at that time (1999) I was 12 years old and I knew a lot of English before I even went to school, still with the more british accent), though about a year and a half later, I spoke fluently in a complete Australian accent... Even my dad (in his late thirties at the time) started to speak with the Aussie accent and has done so ever since, so it's not always at a young age thet accent can be manipulated...
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: mav on January 27, 2009, 09:15:51 pm
In that regard, you must know that Australia back in the day was used as a prison for convicts. Convicts were sent there from the British Commonwealth back in the 18th and the 19th Century.
So in essence, Australia was "built" from poor people, the undertones of which you can find today in the common Australian accent. If you listen to anyone speaking w. the Aussie accent (Croc Dundee anyone?), you can hear that it's less formal than the ordinary British accent.
Indeed, and I believe it's one of the reasons that an Australian accent was chosen--to underscore Kid's rather brutish nature. But, as you said, it's highly unlikely that Zeal, an illustrious and lavish kingdom, would have such an informal accent. I too like to think they had a British accent...but then again, I like to think anyone formal in the series has a British accent.

Even my dad (in his late thirties at the time) started to speak with the Aussie accent and has done so ever since, so it's not always at a young age thet accent can be manipulated...
Hmm, very interesting...I was under the impression that you lose the ability to gain accents with age...even if you've been in the environment for quite some time.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: Foxx on January 30, 2009, 12:40:50 am

Even my dad (in his late thirties at the time) started to speak with the Aussie accent and has done so ever since, so it's not always at a young age thet accent can be manipulated...
Hmm, very interesting...I was under the impression that you lose the ability to gain accents with age...even if you've been in the environment for quite some time.

it mostly depends on the individual's interest in learning the accent, especially at that age... to be frank, my dad was quite eager to pick up the Aussie accent :D
Mostly, though, the border of accent learning lies at about 10-15 years of age if you want to learn it fluently without thinking how you talk and stuff...
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: utunnels on February 17, 2009, 07:48:56 am
Talking about the accent auto generating system, the NA version really benefited from it a lot.
The JPN version used that, but sometimes they still had to make multiple dialogues for different characters to avoid grammar troubles.
For example, Nadia Bell scene, they made more than 10 different "who are those children...?".
And it seems there's a separate dialogue for Leena in the Fort Dragonia scene at the very beginning.
Title: Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
Post by: xcalibur on May 25, 2009, 02:22:38 pm
i havent read through the entire thread, but id say that Zeal is based on Atlantis and ancient greece.

for a long time, westerners/europeans saw the ancient greeks as being a great civilization which originated thier way of life, as well as ideas/science/philosophy... and they were a superior culture that existed thousands of years ago. Zeal also existed thousands of years before the present, and they placed a strong emphasis on science and philosophy. not only that, but in ancient greek tragic plays, the main character would usually be destroyed by his hubris/ego - and the ocean palace and attempt to gain immortality from lavos through the mammon machine can be seen as the ultimate act of hubris which brought destruction on zeal.

theres also a big influence from the myth of Atlantis - an ancient civilization more advanced than the present day, which was on its own island seperate from the rest of the world, and was catastrophically destroyed.