Chrono Compendium

Enhasa Halls - Chrono Series Analysis => History, Locations, and Artifacts => Topic started by: x_XTacTX_x on April 13, 2008, 11:00:33 pm

Title: Chrono Trigger's "Swallow"? My Theory.
Post by: x_XTacTX_x on April 13, 2008, 11:00:33 pm
I recently discovered a secret weapon you can get for Crono by opening one of those black boxes, and it is called a Swallow.

I'm sure you all know that Serge weilds a numerous amount of Swallows in Cross. But I have a theory:

The black treasure boxes are branded with the insignia of Zeal, which you open with The Pendant.

However, you cannot actually open the boxes until Schala dissapeared, correct? No one knows where Schala went, and It isn't explained until Chrono Cross when she was saved by Serge and fused with Kid.

Perhaps seeing the events of Chrono Cross, Schala traveled to the past sometime after CC and placed various sealed boxes in every era in order to Help Crono and the rest of the party on their quest. And one would be Serge's Swallow.

But why then would it be the second most powerful weapon in the game? one answer: It's the Mastermune.

The Mastermune is the second most powerful weapon you can use in Cross, right below the Spectra Swallow. This is the same with "Crono's" Swalloe, right under the Rainbow Sword which is also forged from Rainbow Shell like the Spectra Swallow. However, after all that hard work defeating Dario, you can't take it into a new game plus.

Why? Simply because Schala (the fused being) takes the Mastermune to give it to Crono.

But that doesn't explain why the Swallow in Trigger was the shape of a Katana. My conclusion to this is that Schala reformed it in order to fit Croo's fighting style.


But what doe severyone else think?
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger's "Swallow"? My Theory.
Post by: V_Translanka on April 14, 2008, 05:05:34 am
Crono's Swallow
(http://www.chronocompendium.com/images/wiki/3/3f/Swallow.png)

Nice theory, but it doesn't look like it cuts the mustard. Also, the second most powerful sword isn't the Swallow...>_> It's the Shiva Edge: 170 ATK & 4x Critical Hit DMG! The Swallow only has 145 ATK & SPD +3. Slasher 2 also beats out Swallow w/155 ATK. Kali Blade, another sealed chest sword, has 150 ATK...

The sealed chests are weapons & items scattered from Zeal.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger's "Swallow"? My Theory.
Post by: Boo the Gentleman Caller on April 14, 2008, 11:01:00 am
And not only that, as interesting of a theory as it is, it wouldn't necessarily fit...

That's because Chrono Cross happened as a result of Chrono Trigger's finale (the destruction of Lavos and the creation of a new future).  Assuming that Schala, as a part of the Time Devourer, created these chests to help aide Crono and Friends, takes on a view of Fatalism (of sorts), particularly that all the events will happen despite the outcome (it all is 'destined' to happen and will happen as such, no matter what).

It's a GOOD theory!  It's pretty interesting, too!

It just isn't viable with what we know...

Sorry homeslice...  Nice to see you're being proactive, though!  Sometimes it takes people a while before they feel comfortable enough to jump on in!  Keep it up!
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger's "Swallow"? My Theory.
Post by: x_XTacTX_x on April 14, 2008, 07:44:07 pm
Thanks. And about the Swallow not being the second most powerful weapon in the game, I've only played through Trigger once, as opposed to playing through Cross twice. So I'm not really too familiar with every weapon. :/
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger's "Swallow"? My Theory.
Post by: Thought on April 14, 2008, 09:40:19 pm
Understandible mistake. But if I might make a suggestion, a little research goes a long way. (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Weapons_%28Chrono_Trigger%29.html)

But you're thinking creatively, I like that. Keep it up.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger's "Swallow"? My Theory.
Post by: V_Translanka on April 14, 2008, 10:02:19 pm
Yar, I love going through the Compendium cause I love the fact that it has all the item/weapon/armor/etc images! Great resource. It's a MUST USE!
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger's "Swallow"? My Theory.
Post by: x_XTacTX_x on April 15, 2008, 05:31:30 pm
I would use it moar if I knew how to insert images. :/
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger's "Swallow"? My Theory.
Post by: Peaceman on April 29, 2008, 07:42:33 am
I enjoyed reading that.  fyi, though, you can open those black chests before Schala disappears. 
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger's "Swallow"? My Theory.
Post by: V_Translanka on April 30, 2008, 03:50:05 am
What? But you have to have already powered up the Pendant to open them, which you can't do w/o having seen Schala.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger's "Swallow"? My Theory.
Post by: Peaceman on April 30, 2008, 07:55:51 am
Quote
However, you cannot actually open the boxes until Schala dissapeared, correct? No one knows where Schala went, and It isn't explained until Chrono Cross when she was saved by Serge and fused with Kid.

in this context, disappeared refers to when she dies at Ocean Palace.  When I first played the game, i was so antsy to open the locked doors and chests that I opened them all right after Magus kicked me out of Zeal after fighting Golem.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger's "Swallow"? My Theory.
Post by: V_Translanka on May 01, 2008, 06:38:46 am
Oh, my bad, I read that wrong, I guess...I thought that you said before Schala appears...whoops.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger's "Swallow"? My Theory.
Post by: deviant_ambition on May 01, 2008, 07:23:48 am
And not only that, as interesting of a theory as it is, it wouldn't necessarily fit...

It's a GOOD theory!  It's pretty interesting, too!

It just isn't viable with what we know...

Sorry homeslice...  Nice to see you're being proactive, though!  Sometimes it takes people a while before they feel comfortable enough to jump on in!  Keep it up!
QFT.  Very good theory.

When I first played the game, i was so antsy to open the locked doors and chests that I opened them all right after Magus kicked me out of Zeal after fighting Golem.
hehe me too!  "Hurry up and wait", they say.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger's "Swallow"? My Theory.
Post by: Deezer509 on August 05, 2008, 11:39:15 am
The black treasure boxes are branded with the insignia of Zeal, which you open with The Pendant.

However, you cannot actually open the boxes until Schala dissapeared, correct? No one knows where Schala went, and It isn't explained until Chrono Cross when she was saved by Serge and fused with Kid.
I believe you can open those boxes after having charged the pendant in the M.Machine, just like the doors in 2300 AD.  So it's correlated with the M.Machine as opposed to Schala's specific disappearance.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger's "Swallow"? My Theory.
Post by: yujinishuge on December 10, 2008, 02:15:16 am
There is no Swallow.  It's a name given to the sword by Woosley.  The Japanese name of the sword isn't Swallow.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger's "Swallow"? My Theory.
Post by: Dark Serge on December 10, 2008, 04:12:54 am
I always thought it was a dumb name for that sword since it's not even a swallow sword but just a katana. Another one of Woosley's bad translations.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger's "Swallow"? My Theory.
Post by: Vehek on December 10, 2008, 04:15:13 am
What's the proper name then? Kwhazit translated it as "Swallow", and Gemini didn't see anything wrong with the name while providing item names for the VWF patch. It's probably not written the same way though.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger's "Swallow"? My Theory.
Post by: utunnels on December 10, 2008, 06:15:54 am
Its Japanese name IS swallow, exactly.


-------------------------
In CT
燕 - It means swallow, name of a kind of bird.
In CC
スワロー  - Well, it reads swallow...
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger's "Swallow"? My Theory.
Post by: yujinishuge on December 10, 2008, 08:43:04 am
One's in Kanji meaning that the makers were thinking of the bird when they named the sword.

The other is in katakana which means the makers were thinking of something (a weapon) with a non japanese origin.

There is no relation.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger's "Swallow"? My Theory.
Post by: utunnels on December 10, 2008, 09:10:34 am
That's why we get comfused when they are translated, both go to the same word.
BTW, the swallow from CC probably means scissors or dual-blade, the origin is probably from swallow tail. My English knowledge is quite limited so I don't know if there's such weapon called swallow. But we always say a swallow has a scissor tail, in China.

About the CT swallow, I have not much to say, because 燕/swallow is used quite often among tech names, weapon names.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger's "Swallow"? My Theory.
Post by: utunnels on December 30, 2008, 03:15:28 am
Quote from: http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/GamePro_Interview.html
====5. What influenced the character's weapons? The Cards and the Carrot weapons in particular are pretty interesting, as is the swallow.==== Question From: Presence sayaman@planetnamek.org


We mainly based the weapons on the characters' backgrounds and designs, but it's not really the weapons that are so unique or interesting. It's just the characters that use the weapons who are so weird...I think that's a better way to explain it. (laughs)

One of Serge's weapons, the swallow, just happened to pop up in my head. I thought it'd be strange for a young boy to have this weapon in a small fishing village, so I thought, let's just say it's an oar. (laughs)"

 :picardno
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger's "Swallow"? My Theory.
Post by: x_XTacTX_x on December 30, 2008, 03:33:22 pm
My mental ass was just kicked by Square themselves.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger's "Swallow"? My Theory.
Post by: mav on December 30, 2008, 03:42:37 pm
It's weird, but the swallow is even described as an oar, if you read the description (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Sea_Swallow.html). I don't know why they decided to call both Crono's sword and Serge's oar swallows, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. I'm sure tons of people think both swallows refer to the same type of weapon, but I guess it's just a word the writers happened to like. Either that or Serge's swallows refer to Zeal (as Crono's swallow came from Zeal), but it's a fairly tenuous connection...
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger's "Swallow"? My Theory.
Post by: utunnels on December 31, 2008, 01:02:35 am
My mental ass was just kicked by Square themselves.

He thought, haha, yeah, he just thought.
You know it was not designed by Kato.  :lol:
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger's "Swallow"? My Theory.
Post by: V_Translanka on December 31, 2008, 02:05:10 pm
Maybe "Swallow" refers to a style of fighting both Crono's sword & Serges sharp oars are made for...?
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger's "Swallow"? My Theory.
Post by: utunnels on December 31, 2008, 02:24:51 pm
Probably...or not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sasaki_Kojir%C5%8D#Swallow_Cut (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sasaki_Kojir%C5%8D#Swallow_Cut)

But I bet Serge is not the only guy who uses such weapons. For example, Zidane from Final Fantasy IX...
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger's "Swallow"? My Theory.
Post by: mav on December 31, 2008, 03:52:41 pm
That's pretty awesome, and even this badass swallow cut is based on the bird itself (and you were right. utunnels, by mentioning the swallow tail). And it sounds a mighty lot like Serge's attack:
Quote from: Wikipedia
...the "Turning Swallow Cut" has been reconstructed as a technique involving striking downward from above and then instantly striking again in an upward motion from below.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger's "Swallow"? My Theory.
Post by: utunnels on December 31, 2008, 04:16:02 pm
Ah, well, I knew that long time ago, although I only checked the wiki page after I read this topic.
But I still don't think it has something to do with Serge's weapon.

Take butterfly (one of Zidane's weapon) for example, yeah, the name comes from a type of dual-wielding dagger in real world known as butterfly sword.
Maybe swallow is similar to butterfly in someway...but I still like to call it scissor blade for its shape.

Quote
the "Turning Swallow Cut" has been reconstructed as a technique involving striking downward from above and then instantly striking again in an upward motion from below.

Hmm, sounds interesting, but if I recall, both Frog and Crono have such a move, when they deal a criticla strike.


It's weird, but the swallow is even described as an oar, if you read the description (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Sea_Swallow.html). I don't know why they decided to call both Crono's sword and Serge's oar swallows, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. I'm sure tons of people think both swallows refer to the same type of weapon, but I guess it's just a word the writers happened to like. Either that or Serge's swallows refer to Zeal (as Crono's swallow came from Zeal), but it's a fairly tenuous connection...
LOL, sometimes you shouldn't take the name too serious. You know there are a lot of swords with traditional Japanese names in Castlevania series which is supposed to have a strong western background.
Warrior of Fate, an old beat'em-up arcade game with a back story of the Three Kingdoms, also has a lot of Japanese swords in it, and there's even an Excalibur...
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger's "Swallow"? My Theory.
Post by: V_Translanka on January 01, 2009, 09:47:14 pm
Probably...or not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sasaki_Kojir%C5%8D#Swallow_Cut (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sasaki_Kojir%C5%8D#Swallow_Cut)

But I bet Serge is not the only guy who uses such weapons. For example, Zidane from Final Fantasy IX...


I didn't mean a real life fighting style, just one in the Chronoverse we're not in the know of...And Zidane uses what they call "Thief Blades", which are really not much more than two daggers connected at the end of the hilt (and are totally lame in comparison to double fisting daggers in the first place)...
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger's "Swallow"? My Theory.
Post by: xcalibur on June 10, 2009, 09:03:30 am
being able to open zeals chests and doors depends entirely on charging the pendant in the mammon machine.

the swallow was probably named after the bird.. the bird is known for being fast, and the sword increases your speed.