Chrono Compendium

Enhasa Halls - Chrono Series Analysis => Magic, Elements, and Technology => Topic started by: Magus_Brokenhart on May 05, 2007, 04:50:31 am

Title: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: Magus_Brokenhart on May 05, 2007, 04:50:31 am
Magus's stronger spells have to do with real time/space ideas. You know it probably, Black Hole, a bend, collapse in time and space due to extreme gravity. Suggested to create wormholes to transport you across time and space. Then there was Dark Matter. Apparently 90 percent of all the matter in the universe is composed of this, which we cannot see, but we can detect because it affects gravity. My point is, would very advanced shadow magic allow you to travel across time and space? Something Magus could have discovered later on?
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: Kyronea on May 05, 2007, 05:13:45 am
Yes. Shadow magic, from what we can discern from in-game evidence, is essentially about manipulating the forces of spacetime, and as such with enough power and knowledge of the intricities of Shadow magic, a shadowmage could conceivably create a form of Gate...after all, the Planet had to create the Gates somehow, and it was most likely done magically.
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: Chrono'99 on May 05, 2007, 05:38:49 am
Even Dalton could create spatial Gates, so who knows what a very very advanced magic-user could do. In any case, Magus is not confirmed to have discovered timespace magic.
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: Kyronea on May 05, 2007, 05:42:09 am
Even Dalton could create spatial Gates, so who knows what a very very advanced magic-user could do. In any case, Magus is not confirmed to have discovered timespace magic.
True...the only piece of evidence we have that even suggests it is Lucca referring to Magus as Janus in her letter, but that could have easily been Epoch travel rather than Magus himself creating temporal Gates.

Still, I don't see why Shadow Magic itself could not achieve temporal travel, as I outlined above.
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: Zaperking on May 05, 2007, 05:53:52 am
If I recall correctly, Magus (or Gil) in Radical Dreamers supposedly had some time/space power. I forgot where it was teleportation, or time traveling.

As for Shadow Magic, as I once theorized, Shadow magic seems to be the true magic in the CT world.
What I meant by that is that Lightning,Water/Ice and Fire combined create Shadow.
The most striking evidence for it was that Magus is a Shadow user but he can cast any other magic type spell.

I know there was a discussion saying that Heaven countered it, but Shadow doesn't counter Heavenly, Hellish would lol.
Quite frankily, even Shadow Magic has spells of every other magic type. Dark Bomb is almost like Flare, theres a shielding spell that would be a life saving type spell (lightning/heavenly) etc.
It kind of works out in the end because then it would explain why Crono and co's magic was called "primative" as their magic is of only one of the 4 elements in CT.
Thats why Crono and co are so limited in their spell usage, whilst Magus and the Zealians can do so much (Magus turned Glenn into Frog, Schala sealed a time gate and traversed dimensions etc).

Feel free to add on.
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: Kyronea on May 05, 2007, 06:07:29 am
If I recall correctly, Magus (or Gil) in Radical Dreamers supposedly had some time/space power. I forgot where it was teleportation, or time traveling.
As much as I hate to say it since I adore Radical Dreamers, this is unfortunately irrelevant. Radical Dreamers is not canon.
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As for Shadow Magic, as I once theorized, Shadow magic seems to be the true magic in the CT world.
What I meant by that is that Lightning,Water/Ice and Fire combined create Shadow.
The most striking evidence for it was that Magus is a Shadow user but he can cast any other magic type spell.
I am not certain I would agree...all magic seems to be manipulation of reality...now while it is possible that Shadow is simply the combined effort to manipulate spacetime along with the other elements, it really seems uncertain at best.
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I know there was a discussion saying that Heaven countered it, but Shadow doesn't counter Heavenly, Hellish would lol.
Quite frankily, even Shadow Magic has spells of every other magic type. Dark Bomb is almost like Flare, theres a shielding spell that would be a life saving type spell (lightning/heavenly) etc.
Well, see, it's not as if Heaven is pure and holy in any case, at least not in that sense. It's more associated with it, much like Shadow can be associated with evil. They are both in reality neutral but, as with many elements in so many other series--such as, say, Light and Darkness in Kingdom Hearts--they are not what they are associated as.

We also cannot assume that Shadow Magic can cast all other elements...Magus being the powerful sorcerer that he is suggests he may simply have learned a partial ability to utilize the other elements, and I would imagine Schala could do likewise, if not with greater proficiency. As he is the only example we have of true Shadow Magic we simply cannot determine this as of yet.

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It kind of works out in the end because then it would explain why Crono and co's magic was called "primative" as their magic is of only one of the 4 elements in CT.

Thats why Crono and co are so limited in their spell usage, whilst Magus and the Zealians can do so much (Magus turned Glenn into Frog, Schala sealed a time gate and traversed dimensions etc).
Possibly. The other possibility--the one I prefer--is that everyone in Zeal seemed to perceive normal elemental magic as primative. They did dismiss the energy of the Sun Stone as soon as they got their hands on Lavos' as a power source. Since their magic is not fully innate but powered by the Mammon Machine, they are utilizing Lavos's own magical energy as magical power, and as such would view it to be more powerful and superior to the "primative elemental magic."

Magus and Schala can do so much more because unlike Crono and the gang they have had years, if not decades, of experience with magic, whereas Crono, Marle, Lucca, and Frog had, at most, six months worth of experience.
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: Magus_Brokenhart on May 06, 2007, 01:21:14 am
Maybe only super beings like the planet and Lavos can hone shadow magic well enough to create gates. If any human could hone shadow magic to that degree, it would be Magus. Didn't they say that Janus had greater powers than the already impressive Schala? Then you have to take how much he improved as the Magus...
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: CyberSarkany on May 10, 2007, 09:21:19 am
Didn't Magus create some kind of gate in order to summon Lavos/get into his PD?
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: Kyronea on May 10, 2007, 09:36:04 am
Didn't Magus create some kind of gate in order to summon Lavos/get into his PD?
No. That Gate was created by Lavos, as evidenced by Magus' pissed off reaction. Presumeably Lavos was summoned through other means, and the summoning was partially interrupted.
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: CyberSarkany on May 11, 2007, 07:29:23 am
So what was he doing? Just standing there and wait for Lavos to open a gate?
If he didn't create the gate, he at least had to have some contact with Lavos, making him angry or something, in order to make Lavos open a gate. Magus somehow had to control the gate in order to get to Lavos, or he would be send to another era like it happend when he was interrupted by Crono and co and didn't have time to control it.

Maybe he wasn't able to get to Lavos through the gate in the Lavos-Timeline and was send to another era, but then he would still have to get Lavos attention somehow in order to make the gate appear. Another question would be, if he was sent to another era, why wasn't he sent to 12.000 BC like he was after being interrupted, because he was standing at the same spot after the fight with Crono and co(if the event horizont and stuff was the reason for him to end um in 12.000BC and Crono and co in Prehistory).
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: Kyronea on May 11, 2007, 08:42:16 am
So what was he doing? Just standing there and wait for Lavos to open a gate?
If he didn't create the gate, he at least had to have some contact with Lavos, making him angry or something, in order to make Lavos open a gate. Magus somehow had to control the gate in order to get to Lavos, or he would be send to another era like it happend when he was interrupted by Crono and co and didn't have time to control it.

Maybe he wasn't able to get to Lavos through the gate in the Lavos-Timeline and was send to another era, but then he would still have to get Lavos attention somehow in order to make the gate appear. Another question would be, if he was sent to another era, why wasn't he sent to 12.000 BC like he was after being interrupted, because he was standing at the same spot after the fight with Crono and co(if the event horizont and stuff was the reason for him to end um in 12.000BC and Crono and co in Prehistory).
Your entire argument relies on the idea that a Gate was required to bring Lavos out of his Pocket Dimension, as if there was not some other way to summon Lavos, which there most probably was. We have no evidence that Magus was truly capable of creating Gates or even controlling them. While Schala was capable of keeping the Gate in 12,000 B.C. shut, this seemed to be purely through the use of something that constricted physical space to prevent the Gate from opening, and remember, Magus had to have Schala do it...he did not do it himself, which suggests he can't.
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: CyberSarkany on May 11, 2007, 11:46:26 am
[...]and remember, Magus had to have Schala do it...he did not do it himself, which suggests he can't.
Or he didn't want to show his power to either Schala(who might recognize it) or the party. He was known to Schala as a prophet, not a magician.

For the gate thingy: He was still in his tower, and if he would summon Lavos any other way than via gate, he would get crushed by the tower when Lavos rises(the castle is the same location as the Death Mountain in the future and the Black Omen, meaning if Lavos would rise, it would be there). This of course implies that this summoning only means waking Lavos. But how would Magus going to face it? Of course, it can be a "not-explained" situation, but that's what hypothesis are for, trying to explain them.

Or maybe I didn't get what you mean by summoning.
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: Kyronea on May 11, 2007, 12:01:15 pm
Actually, to be honest, I have no idea how Magus was planning to summon Lavos. He had some method planned, perhaps some kind of teleportation of Lavos from his Pocket Dimension directly to his castle, but whatever the case, we don't know how he would do it. So while it's possible he could have used a Gate, I'm not seeing it, not with the evidence I mentioned earlier. We don't know precisely what kind of powers Magus showed to the Kingdom of Zeal as the Prophet, so we can't argue that he was trying to hide his capabilities when there is no evidence to suggest he would have to.
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: Zaperking on May 12, 2007, 05:11:58 am
Actually, to be honest, I have no idea how Magus was planning to summon Lavos. He had some method planned, perhaps some kind of teleportation of Lavos from his Pocket Dimension directly to his castle, but whatever the case, we don't know how he would do it. So while it's possible he could have used a Gate, I'm not seeing it, not with the evidence I mentioned earlier. We don't know precisely what kind of powers Magus showed to the Kingdom of Zeal as the Prophet, so we can't argue that he was trying to hide his capabilities when there is no evidence to suggest he would have to.

Err. I have to disagree :/
Magus did hide his powers, and his identity. The player and Crono and co were supposed to not know who the Prophet was, and neither did anyone in Zeal. The whole fact that Janus knows how to hide his power, and differs from Magus brings light to that point.
Furthermore, Magus probably got Schala to seal the gate especially so he wouldn't show his power, and so that also he could threaten Crono and co to Schala, and hence she wouldn't come back to reopen the gate if Magus did it himself.

But as for the Lavos summoning thing, I kind of agree. From the game evidence, however, it seems that he did have a way of summoning Lavos, and it was working, but maybe Lavos resisted it and caused the gate, or Magus was interrupted, who knows. Personally, I would have thought a giant gate would have opened up to bring Lavos in, just like how Dalton brings in the Golems.
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: Magus068 on May 13, 2007, 07:23:22 am
If Schala can seal a time gate, wouldn't it be possible that Schala is a shadow innate?   What Schala did isn't any normal sealing & it might require a high level of magic potential & a deep knowledge in shadow magic.
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: Chrono'99 on May 25, 2007, 11:24:05 am
If Schala can seal a time gate, wouldn't it be possible that Schala is a shadow innate?   What Schala did isn't any normal sealing & it might require a high level of magic potential & a deep knowledge in shadow magic.

Schala can't "seal a time gate", she just created a force field around something which happened to be a time gate.
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: SolidSnake_8608 on May 25, 2007, 01:18:40 pm
Which in itself is weird. How the hell can someone put a barrier over something like a gate?
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: Chrono'99 on May 25, 2007, 02:50:02 pm
Which in itself is weird. How the hell can someone put a barrier over something like a gate?

Same way you put a barrier over, like, anything else.
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: Kyronea on May 25, 2007, 08:04:38 pm
To add on to what Chrono'99 is saying, she essentially created a pyramid-shaped forcefield around the area of the Gate where it would be unable to expand. Without being able to expand, it could not be opened.

I do admit minor confusion over why the pyramid also appeared in 65,000,000 B.C., and why it just vanished after Crono and friends obtained the Epoch, but those two are easily explained:

1. It was more a gameplay feature than reality. In the reality of the situation a pyramid would not have appeared, but the Gate would only take them to the End of Time. Rather than take the time to only force the 65,000,000 B.C. half of the Gate to appear in the End of Time without the other end appearing as well, the game creators just wrote the whole thing off and sealed it from the player.

2. Presumeably Schala removed the barrier from the Gate as well as the barrier on the Skyway, though this explanation might be incorrect if the pyramid force field was immediately gone upon arrival in the Epoch, as Schala had yet to come down to the planet's surface at this time. (Otherwise we might have seen her in the Earthbound Village and we would have been able to access the Skyway.)
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: SolidSnake_8608 on May 26, 2007, 03:19:02 pm
My point is that how can a barrier stop something like a time gate from being activated. I mean, putting a box over a gate wouldn't stop it from opening, more like it would just travel in time with whoever activated the gate to begin with.
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: Radical_Dreamer on May 26, 2007, 03:40:07 pm
Time gates physically expand when someone is travelling through them. Schala's barrier prevents this expansion, and thus, the use of the gate.
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: SolidSnake_8608 on May 31, 2007, 09:09:07 pm
I somehow find it hard to believe that a barrier of any kind would stop a rift in the space time continnuam from opening.
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: Kyronea on May 31, 2007, 09:44:27 pm
I somehow find it hard to believe that a barrier of any kind would stop a rift in the space time continnuam from opening.
...

Okay, look, were you not reading what he said? Yes, it is a tear in the space-time continuum, but it has to expand physically in order for the three people inside of it to exit out back into reality! If it cannot expand physically--meaning that hole is really there as a physical object--then it cannot deposit them and they cannot travel through.
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: Zaperking on June 01, 2007, 10:03:03 pm
Can't we also say that the round gate thing is also just for game play? Early on in the game, when Crono and co were running away from the Chancellor, they had them backed in a corner, and all of a sudden the Chancellor said that they disappeared into thin air.
If a real gate opened up, and it was visible, then wouldn't they have seen them actually step into something and run after them into it?

It's probably just for game play, and truly all Crono and co do is detect a gate or something with the gate key and the gate key automatically lets them pass through as if the gate was a well or something. Without the key - there is nothing there kinda :/ Who knows.
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: Kyronea on June 01, 2007, 11:57:10 pm
Can't we also say that the round gate thing is also just for game play? Early on in the game, when Crono and co were running away from the Chancellor, they had them backed in a corner, and all of a sudden the Chancellor said that they disappeared into thin air.
If a real gate opened up, and it was visible, then wouldn't they have seen them actually step into something and run after them into it?

It's probably just for game play, and truly all Crono and co do is detect a gate or something with the gate key and the gate key automatically lets them pass through as if the gate was a well or something. Without the key - there is nothing there kinda :/ Who knows.
Uh, no. The Chancellor's comment leaves room for interpretation, especially since the characters tend to make a fuss over Gates appearing in several parts of the game. Basically, the way I see it, he had no idea what the actual Gate effect was and just saw something swallow them up. "They...DISAPPEARED?!" is not an entirely accurate comment on the situation, but definitely one of the things people are most likely to say.

So no, we cannot say that the physical Gate effect is for gameplay, especially since that would throw the whole idea of Gates into whack to begin with. Remember the display in Chronopolis in Chrono Cross that talks about Lucca's postulate about miniature black holes? She's talking about the Gates there. And without a physical component, how could they enter the Gate to begin with?

No...the Gates are what they appear to be...distortions in space-time with a physical opening that can only be stabilized by the Gate Key or a similiar device. Presumeably the Gate Key also encorporates a method of exicting the Gates into revealing their location, as they are invisible to the player until Lucca has the Gate Key, as demonstrated when the Gate in Truce Canyon disappeared after Crono passed through.
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: SolidSnake_8608 on June 02, 2007, 12:38:53 am
I somehow find it hard to believe that a barrier of any kind would stop a rift in the space time continnuam from opening.
...

Okay, look, were you not reading what he said? Yes, it is a tear in the space-time continuum, but it has to expand physically in order for the three people inside of it to exit out back into reality! If it cannot expand physically--meaning that hole is really there as a physical object--then it cannot deposit them and they cannot travel through.

What I'm saying is that by standing next to the barrier and activating the gate, the barrier wouldn't stop it, the gate would just open up and suck the barrier in with when it closes. A gate  has no physical form, the Chancellor didn't see it because of this. You wouldn't just run into an invisible object one day and think, "Crap, must be a gate." You would just walk right through it. It would be like putting a box over a worm hole, activating it the same way a gate needs to be activated, and the worm hole not "opening" because of a box being over it. The reason why it doesn't expand is because it doesn't make sense for the game, that's the only reason.
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: Kyronea on June 02, 2007, 12:44:28 am

What I'm saying is that by standing next to the barrier and activating the gate, the barrier wouldn't stop it, the gate would just open up and suck the barrier in with when it closes. A gate  has no physical form, the Chancellor didn't see it because of this. You wouldn't just run into an invisible object one day and think, "Crap, must be a gate." You would just walk right through it. It would be like putting a box over a worm hole, activating it the same way a gate needs to be activated, and the worm hole not "opening" because of a box being over it. The reason why it doesn't expand is because it doesn't make sense for the game, that's the only reason.
...

The Gate does have a physical opening that has to deposit the people inside of it in normal space-time. That physical opening is the Gate effect we see. While you're right that a Gate otherwise has no physical form in our space-time--the minature Gate we see once we have the Gate Key is an unstable vortex that cannot be interacted with--it does when it operates under its normal function. As such, without the ability for it to physical expand into our own space-time, it cannot open and cannot be traveled through.
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: Radical_Dreamer on June 02, 2007, 02:04:37 am
The gates must have physical form because they are observed by characters in the game.
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: Zaperking on June 02, 2007, 04:22:08 am
Firstly, someone brought up the idea that Schala's barrier simply stopped the gate from expanding. If that is so, then what if an imp wanted to pass through it? They wouldn't need a large gate. And that's also the same as saying that a being like Lavos wanted to pass through it. They should if they want to.

But then whats the point of the game making an explicit statement about there having been a GIANT gate in Magus' castle. If the gate opens up proportionally to the people's size, then there would be no point in having different categories of gate magnitudes.

Furthermore, gates have a tendency to move people through time, as once you go inside the gate, you're being wooshed in the time steam.
This is evidenced by how in the beginning, you see the time stream pass.
This is also shown in the fact that in the Ocean Palace, the gates appeared underneath Janus and the Guru's and began to carry them away.
Why then does the game show Crono and co stepping inside the gate, then closing it, whilst they're standing in the time stream? Since when is the time stream static enough to let them just stand there.
The reason is because it's another gameplay thing. Just how the world doesn't reflect the entire inhabitance, just how Lavos doesn't look that big in his fight, just how Schala's barrier appears in both times (though you can't rule out the fact that she could have blocked the timegate, maybe doing a counter blackhole spell or something).

Either way, you can't say that gates are seeable. When Crono went to 600AD the first time, no gate appeared. The whole reason why we see it later is because Lucca made a gatekey, and for the player, we need to know where the gates are anyway. As I was saying, most likely anyone could stand in the spot where the gate is, but for it to actually open up physically or w/e, you need something like a gate key to activate it, just as SolidSnake_8608 said. Otherwise think what the other characters in the game would have tought of a big blue orb just hoving there -.-
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: Kyronea on June 02, 2007, 04:41:26 am
Firstly, someone brought up the idea that Schala's barrier simply stopped the gate from expanding. If that is so, then what if an imp wanted to pass through it? They wouldn't need a large gate. And that's also the same as saying that a being like Lavos wanted to pass through it. They should if they want to.
Uh...maybe because the barrier would work both ways, as most barriers tend to? Just because a brick wall keeps one from exiting a house does not mean one can enter a house through that same brick wall.
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But then whats the point of the game making an explicit statement about there having been a GIANT gate in Magus' castle. If the gate opens up proportionally to the people's size, then there would be no point in having different categories of gate magnitudes.
...because it doesn't open up proportionally to people's sizes. You just defeated your own argument by invoking the incident at Magus' Castle. The fact that Gate was larger than normal proves that Gates have a set size, possibly determined by their function and how they are able to continue existing.
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Furthermore, gates have a tendency to move people through time, as once you go inside the gate, you're being wooshed in the time steam.
This is evidenced by how in the beginning, you see the time stream pass.
This is also shown in the fact that in the Ocean Palace, the gates appeared underneath Janus and the Guru's and began to carry them away.
Okay, I'm with you here, since you're correct.
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Why then does the game show Crono and co stepping inside the gate, then closing it, whilst they're standing in the time stream? Since when is the time stream static enough to let them just stand there.
...yes, because we're always seeing things from the point of view of Crono and friends. It's not possible the camera lingered longer to show the casting of the barrier!

Come on, Zaper, you can't possibly be this stupid about this. Obviously they were wisked through time the instant they stepped through the Gate, as they normally are. We simply did not see it immediately because there was a cutscene we needed to view.
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The reason is because it's another gameplay thing. Just how the world doesn't reflect the entire inhabitance, just how Lavos doesn't look that big in his fight, just how Schala's barrier appears in both times (though you can't rule out the fact that she could have blocked the timegate, maybe doing a counter blackhole spell or something).
Not exactly. More like a storyline thing, but you're interpreting the event incorrectly.
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Either way, you can't say that gates are seeable.
Visible. Under normal conditions, no, they are not.
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When Crono went to 600AD the first time, no gate appeared.
It was there, but Crono could not see it.
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The whole reason why we see it later is because Lucca made a gatekey, and for the player, we need to know where the gates are anyway.
Yes...but remember, every single second we have the Gate Key, we can see the Gates. When we don't have the Gate Key, like when it is missing in 65,000,000 B.C., the Gates disappear from sight. This, to me, means that Lucca programmed something into the Gate Key to excite the Gates into existence whenever they step near, allowing them to see the Gates as a visible, though not physical, distortion. It would make sense, as it is just a limited version of what the Gate Key does anyway.
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As I was saying, most likely anyone could stand in the spot where the gate is, but for it to actually open up physically or w/e, you need something like a gate key to activate it, just as SolidSnake_8608 said. Otherwise think what the other characters in the game would have tought of a big blue orb just hoving there -.-
What's your point? This is completely and totally obvious. As I keep saying, the Gate Key is used to excite the Gates into revealing themselves. Without it, the distortion is invisble and cannot be interacted with on any level. Even when visible it still cannot be interacted with, unless you exert the full effects of the Gate Key and open it manually. Otherwise Gates would just open up whenever the party stepped near them rather than waiting till the party intentionally touched the Gate.

[/quote]
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: ShoeMagus on June 07, 2007, 07:12:38 pm
About Shadow Magic and its relation to the other elements: The game manual specifies that Shadow is the combination of the other three. Of course that could be just another translation but its supported by the game itself. The tech "Delta Storm" essentially a combination of Fire2, Water2, and Lightning2, does Shadow damage. I know because I relied heavily on it when Magus pulled up his "Shadow" shield and DarkBombed you.

The most powerful magic users seem to use Shadow, though whether or not it was the original form of magic is up to speculation.


Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: Zaperking on June 08, 2007, 01:44:02 am

It was there, but Crono could not see it.

Yes...but remember, every single second we have the Gate Key, we can see the Gates. When we don't have the Gate Key, like when it is missing in 65,000,000 B.C., the Gates disappear from sight. This, to me, means that Lucca programmed something into the Gate Key to excite the Gates into existence whenever they step near, allowing them to see the Gates as a visible, though not physical, distortion. It would make sense, as it is just a limited version of what the Gate Key does anyway.

What's your point? This is completely and totally obvious. As I keep saying, the Gate Key is used to excite the Gates into revealing themselves. Without it, the distortion is invisble and cannot be interacted with on any level. Even when visible it still cannot be interacted with, unless you exert the full effects of the Gate Key and open it manually. Otherwise Gates would just open up whenever the party stepped near them rather than waiting till the party intentionally touched the Gate.


That was my whole fucking point all along. Learn to read next time.
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: Chrono'99 on June 08, 2007, 03:59:46 am
About Shadow Magic and its relation to the other elements: The game manual specifies that Shadow is the combination of the other three. Of course that could be just another translation but its supported by the game itself. The tech "Delta Storm" essentially a combination of Fire2, Water2, and Lightning2, does Shadow damage. I know because I relied heavily on it when Magus pulled up his "Shadow" shield and DarkBombed you.

The most powerful magic users seem to use Shadow, though whether or not it was the original form of magic is up to speculation.




The manual's wrong. Lightning is not need to "make" Shadow magic. Fire and Water are enough as evidenced by the Double Techs Antipodes.
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: Kyronea on June 08, 2007, 11:14:20 am
[
That was my whole fucking point all along. Learn to read next time.
Then learn how to make your point clearer, Zaper. That way we understand it better.

Oh, and a piece of friendly advice: don't get so worked up about these little debates. It's not as if you need to have any real emotional investment in them. I don't...most of the time.
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: ShoeMagus on June 08, 2007, 01:14:02 pm
About Shadow Magic and its relation to the other elements: The game manual specifies that Shadow is the combination of the other three. Of course that could be just another translation but its supported by the game itself. The tech "Delta Storm" essentially a combination of Fire2, Water2, and Lightning2, does Shadow damage. I know because I relied heavily on it when Magus pulled up his "Shadow" shield and DarkBombed you.

The most powerful magic users seem to use Shadow, though whether or not it was the original form of magic is up to speculation.




The manual's wrong. Lightning is not need to "make" Shadow magic. Fire and Water are enough as evidenced by the Double Techs Antipodes.

Did you actually test this during gameplay? I would assume the best place to do it would be in the fight with Lavos' head.
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: Kyronea on June 08, 2007, 03:46:12 pm


Did you actually test this during gameplay? I would assume the best place to do it would be in the fight with Lavos' head.
I have, many times. Antipode becomes a Shadow element.
Title: Re: Question about shadow magic.
Post by: alpha on July 08, 2007, 03:37:48 pm
there is nothing to prove that they dont actualy stay in one place until the gate closes. It could very easily be that the horizon of the gate is stationary in time until it closes and then it disconnects from that time dragging them through the gate to the other end which opens upon arrival. And schalas pyramid most likey blocked all forms of energy from with and without as well as physcal contact. This means that the gate key could never open it as whatever energies it used to do so could not reach the gate.

And on teh gate being sealed on both ends. IT makes sens if you look at as The true destination of the gate is not the end of time but either 65m or 12k with one end sealed off and unable to open, the other end through laws of the games physics should also seal off because there is no circuit. remember that gaspar told them that They "COULD" always use a gate to go there. Not that they had too. But iwth the circuit closed it wouldnt even be able to open up in the end of time. this is evident in the lack of either gate at the end of time.

And delta force is registered as a triple elemental attack.. try using it on a creature with lightning abosrbtion and watch what happens.