Chrono Compendium
Zenan Plains - Site Discussion => Polling => Topic started by: ZeaLitY on September 24, 2006, 04:41:54 pm
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KWhazit is continuing work on the Chrono Trigger Retranslation. We were at about 75% when he first began the last push, and he's since completed roughly half the remaining lines, placing us near 88%. When the Retranslation debuts, you'll be able to read a...
- Annotated script ordered by dialogue offset / in-game appearance
- Translation differences article marking all notable changes
However, some fans have requested a playable retranslation. This is very possible through Chronotools, Bisqwit's CT translation suite. It will automatically wrap paragraphs for us (reducing the need to add line breaks in the code) and will add back all the Japanese features. It can also expand the ROM to fit all the extra English text. Regardless, a playable game will require a sizable investment of time to readd Delay commands and other textual markup present in the game. We'll also have to coordinate with Bisqwit to ensure perfect operation. He and the other Chrono Trigger rom hackers will probably lead the effort. So here's my question to you: how bad do you want it? It may be one of those things that eventually gets done, but I just want to gauge your opinion.
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Amazing. 42 views and six votes. You people with no opinion royally suck.
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Lemme be the first to express my thoughts! I voted for 'It's pretty important; I'd probably give it a playthrough.', because I think the idea of being able to play CT the whole way through with the original script, with better lines is a great idea to a lot of people. If you can do it, then hell, do it! :D I'd certainly play it!
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I "Got to have it." because "After all, we have to put out the authoritative Chrono Trigger."
Just reading a translated script is nothing I would really enjoy. Translation combined with the quality of the game would make me definately wand to play it throught a few times. It is just different to "read" something or to "play" it.
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I would definetly play it because it would be more fun to play a game with the script in it then sit down and read the entire script for ages...
Also 83 views and only 11 votes....
....what the hell is wrong with everyone?!
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I would definetly play it because it would be more fun to play a game with the script in it then sit down and read the entire script for ages...
Also 83 views and only 11 votes....
....what the hell is wrong with everyone?!
I'm wondering the same thing. :shock: Are people really that lazy?
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Maybe some of the same people are re-entering the thread to see what everyone else has voted, eh?
Anyways...I want to play the game as it was originally intended by the creators. I don't want to just be stuck w/what Woosley gave us...It's just not fair, I tells ya!
Make it so number one!...hehe...number one is peepee!
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Need...translation...like drug...
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I have been wanting this for a very long time, I must have it!
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It will be a good excuse to play it again
:D
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I'd love to see a re-translation - it may give some more clues to some things I still haven't figured out about the game.
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The script is a definate must! As for the playable version...well I guess I could name a few things I crave more. Like another shot of ether, sweet sweet ether. :mrgreen:
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I can't wait to read the script comparisons! I find it really interesting, and I've been waiting (somewhat patiently) ever since I first heard about the project. I was hooked from the get-go. ^_^
I would also be thrilled to play through the retranslated game... especially if I could figure out how to play it on my Dreamcast. (We only have one computer to share amongst 4 people. Plus, I prefer console gaming. ^^)
Incidentally, no, I'm not crazy! There really is some way to burn an SNES-to-DC emulator onto a CD and play it on the DC, (one of my exes has done it, and there's even a website devoted to it), but I am totally emulator illiterate, even with the FAQs. >_<;;; But if I had to I would try to play the game on the computer. ^^
Anywho, yay for retranslations, and the translators! ^_~ (And yay for the Chrono Compendium, too! I've been lurking for a while, and I finally decided to join b/c you guys are awesome! ^^ Okay, I'm really done now...)
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Yeah, you could even play ripped regular Dreamcast games on your DC...It's because Sega stupidly allowed it to support Windows NT...Yet another chink in the DC's downfall armor. But yeah, I'm sure you could find out about how to do it at either of the big emulator sites like zsnes or nester (nester does NES emulation, of course)...Those are the ones I remember using...
Oh, and catgirls rulz...>_>
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Hmmm... that's a good idea. The site my ex was using was www.dcemulation.com. They have a FAQ and a walkthru, if I remember correctly, but even those didn't really help me b/c I'm SO emulator illiterate! >_<;;; Thanks for the idea, I will try to look into it. ^^
...huh, I hope nobody minds that I got kinda off topic. ^^;;;
Meow! You betcha catgirls rule! ^_^ Oh look! String! *paws at it*
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Been thinking about this, and thinking about other fan translations I've seen, and it got me worrying.
I just hope the translation won't contain "-sama"s and the like. They have no meaning in English, they should be omitted. And I can understand a retranslation of some of the names that were localized, like Ozzie Flea and Slash, to what they actually translate to, but hopefully Frog won't be changed to Kaeru or Kero or whatever...that'd be retarded. I don't consider translating symbols to text and not actually TRANSLATING the meaning of the word to English a translation.
My point is, I hope that this translation isn't giving us Japanese in English, but instead being an improved localized translation.
Course then again...it doesn't matter a WHOLE lot if a ROM patch isn't created, but if one IS...please make it NOT Japanese. That's just silly.
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The player character names are remaining the same, but everything else is changed, and honorific titles are left intact. We're trying to approximate the original Chrono Trigger as best we can to make a perfect comparison and gain a total understanding of the original. The result can be edited ad infinitum for actual presentation, though I'd like to have the unedited retranslation released first.
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Ok, I understand the desire to keep everything intact, including honorifics...but would it be too big a deal to make them appropriately English? Sir, and Ma'am? Or Boss? Your Highness? Pimp master? I dunno, I guess it's really not that important in an intial presentation, but that's always kinda bugged me. I don't really have any problems with anything you're doing about this translation though.
I salute you!
Er...also...any idea for an ETC? ^_^
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Having the retranslated script will be a boon to the Compendium. Having a translation patch for the rom would make the retranslation much more accessable to people who don't have the patience to read through the script in the side-by-side script format. For what it's worth, I'd play the retranslated version.
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Now that I think about it, playing through the game without Frog's annoying Shakesperian (is that even a word? It is now) talk would be great indeed.
Also, I assumed attack names like Inner Lavos' 'Span Death' were mistranslations, too. Are they fixed in the retranslation project?
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Everything is retranslated, right down to the 'You got a red mail!' Those lines usually come out the same, but what i'm saying is that every single line in the game is being checked.
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Everything is retranslated, right down to the 'You got a red mail!' Those lines usually come out the same, but what i'm saying is that every single line in the game is being checked.
Awesome! :D A playable version would truly kick ass!
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I'm really looking forward to the retranslation, and having it made into a game would be even better. I've always been the type to prefer sub over dub, or in this case, original dialouge over how the game was translated to begin with when it was released in America. I would most definately play it!
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So about this retranslation?
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And I can understand a retranslation of some of the names that were localized, like Ozzie Flea and Slash, to what they actually translate to, but hopefully Frog won't be changed to Kaeru or Kero or whatever...that'd be retarded. I don't consider translating symbols to text and not actually TRANSLATING the meaning of the word to English a translation.
Yeah, but if you understand the meaning (and you should if you've been wanting a retranslation for as long as everyone else), why not? There's no word that would properly replace Kaeru in the English language...It's not the original game's developer's fault that our stupid language is so broken and we shouldn't have to pay for it either. The meaning of the words (not to mention some of the less obvious cultural differences) can always be explained in attached Help files, just like RPGOne had for the FFVI retranslation.
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I do now better respect having a more literal translation, after having seen some of the atrocities in Greek translation. Why, last term we were translating Aristophanes' 'The Frogs', so I became rather familiar with its style and wording. But when, in another class, we were shown excerpts in English, I couldn't believe my eyes - they were so incredibly different! It was changed so as to be 'funny' in modern English, but all sense (in my opinion) of the original was lost. I looked at a translation from the earlier half of the 20th century, and it was nearer literal... I saw no problem with this. Yet some modern translators seem to feel the need to mess unduly with things. This is one I didn't look at, but I bet they rendered the Greek phrase which literally is 'to the crows!' as 'go to hell'... now, don't you just like the feel of the literal one? 'To the crows'... it has an interesting feel to it.
Anyway, I'm not so averse to this now as I was before. Of course I still prefer Woosly, but I understand that's a bit of nostalgia, and even more linguistic and cultural prejudice, so it's indefensible.
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I honestly would love to see the retranslatin debut soon because I'm willing to play through it and see what kind of differences have been made.
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Hi folks,
I'm from Europe (that's why my english is not 100%) and new to this forum and was shocked to read that a) there is such a "re-translation" project existing at all and b) great people - damit, I really admire you guys - have been able to actually complete it, no less! DAMN, if that's not awesome, what is?!
From what I've read so far it also seems to be a pretty profound re-translation!
DAMN! How much longer will it take to have a playable rom-version??? I mean, it's actually "there"!! If I were a good rom hacker/modifier, I'd do it myself right away! Unfortunately I can't!
Isn't there anybody out there with some awesome talent who'd be willing to spare some time for the FINAL CHAPTER in this freakin' awe-inspiring (damn, gotta use all superlatives I learned) CHRONO TRIGGER RE-TRANSLATION PROJECT?!!!
THAT'D be the NEXT BIG thing to the glorious Front Mission translation!!
DAMN, knowing that there's this finished, awesome script only waiting for a ROM to put into just kills me!
Greetings,
Mlata
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damn... i used damn too often...
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Not sure. It looks like things have stalled with both Shadow Usagi and Teh Mick, though that's more so the fault of Chronotools...
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oh.... I just found out some guys are already working on it...
I'm happy now :D
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If you mean DS and Suzaku, they're doing their own retranslation. They've demonstrated that they have little regard for canon, so I'd like to see someone get ours out in a playable patch to prevent the bastardization of the original Chrono Trigger.
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If you mean DS and Suzaku, they're doing their own retranslation. They've demonstrated that they have little regard for canon, so I'd like to see someone get ours out in a playable patch to prevent the bastardization of the original Chrono Trigger.
how have they shown that?
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They were, at one time, willing to inject new lines into the game to try and preserve the "Kaeru" Japanese frog / shapeshifting pun. They changed a few days ago due to community pressure. For everything else, read:
http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,2895.0.html
KWhazit retranslated specifically to produce a literal, true version of Chrono Trigger, as if we could all suddenly speak Japanese. He aimed to surgically, scientifically render the lines as they appeared originally as to allow a clear understanding of the canon without a middle-man's intervention.
Other retranslations rarely are held up to such ideals. Retranslators are often too eager to insert jokes, cuteness, extra canon, extreme profanity, or personal touches into the games they handle. KWhazit's product my sound Engrishy or clunky, but that's because it's Japanese in English. It lets you look exactly at what Japanese fans saw. I'm not discrediting him as a translator or anything, because he does other stuff without this very specific aim and it sounds fine in English. But we'd never change the "Engrish" of the CT retranslation because we were interested in the get-go in the original Chrono Trigger and canon.
Any other retranslation, aside from correcting a couple extreme inside puns KWhazit couldn't decipher, will only deviate from this standard. The Compendium was first and foremost an analysis of the series and its canon to produce a clear understanding of the plots and internal logic of the games. If their team is willing to make up lines or otherwise render them how they see it, the result will be different from the original. It may be more colloquially and idiomatically English, but it won't be the Japanese Chrono Trigger.
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They were, at one time, willing to inject new lines into the game to try and preserve the "Kaeru" Japanese frog / shapeshifting pun. They changed a few days ago due to community pressure. For everything else, read:
http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,2895.0.html
KWhazit retranslated specifically to produce a literal, true version of Chrono Trigger, as if we could all suddenly speak Japanese. He aimed to surgically, scientifically render the lines as they appeared originally as to allow a clear understanding of the canon without a middle-man's intervention.
Other retranslations rarely are held up to such ideals. Retranslators are often too eager to insert jokes, cuteness, extra canon, extreme profanity, or personal touches into the games they handle. KWhazit's product my sound Engrishy or clunky, but that's because it's Japanese in English. It lets you look exactly at what Japanese fans saw. I'm not discrediting him as a translator or anything, because he does other stuff without this very specific aim and it sounds fine in English. But we'd never change the "Engrish" of the CT retranslation because we were interested in the get-go in the original Chrono Trigger and canon.
Any other retranslation, aside from correcting a couple extreme inside puns KWhazit couldn't decipher, will only deviate from this standard. The Compendium was first and foremost an analysis of the series and its canon to produce a clear understanding of the plots and internal logic of the games. If their team is willing to make up lines or otherwise render them how they see it, the result will be different from the original. It may be more colloquially and idiomatically English, but it won't be the Japanese Chrono Trigger.
this doesnt seem as ass rapingly bad as you make it sound. like for one thing they want to know whether they should change the name to Frog or Keasu (of however its spelled).
theres no english word that means both Frog and to change, so if they leave it as frog than it DOES lose some of its orgional Japanese.
also, some items are called Katanas, so should they translate that to Sword? or leave it as Katana?
fact is Chrono Trigger cant exist 100% in english no matter what, the best way to get the closest thing to it is to use Japanese in it too, like Refering to Lavos as Lavos-Sama in Zeal, Japanese call God Kami-Sama, so it means they were calling Lavos God, but in English thats just lost unless you change it to God Lavos, but thats changing and injecting.
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We DO call him Lavos-sama. -sama is easily preserved if someone just learns what it means. Kaeru doesn't work.
But this is why we have footnotes and annotations.
If you actually read the script, there are many footnotes and references talking about the lines or changes from the North American version. No, these can't be put in a playable patch, but by god if someone cares about Chrono Trigger enough to play a retranslated version, then he or she can come to the Chrono Compendium and just read a collection of notes.
Better to lose a little meaning and reference it in an annotation than to completely rewrite the canon of the game by modifying Frog's origin.
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rewrite the canon of the game by modifying Frog's origin.
what do you mean? i never seen this in that topic.
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Did you read all 27 pages?
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Did you read all 27 pages?
hell no, i got to like page 9 lol.
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yes, I meant DS and Sasukes' project. Yesterday I tried to get as much information as I could, and although I didn't read through all pages on the site I still rememerded what I read about the intention of DS/Sasukes project on another page earlier. I thing they're trying to go for the golden path somehow. I myself now would actually prefer not to have a too literal translation, as I think it would distance people too much in an unneccesary way. Sake for example changed to just alcohol (beer or something else) would have the same effect. Whereas Katana, for example, should stay that way as it is internationally more used, in comics, movies, games and stuff, and has slight lost more off that very specific cultural reference of sake. Sake is an everyday product, that still is used FREAKIN often buy... well, mostly japanese. A katana isn't an everyday product, so the DIRECT refence to this historical weapon as such, even for japanese people, is gone, that's why it think the chance of international english speaking & english native speaking people having a weired aftertaste about it is much lower.
I think the compendium retranslation is a fantastic piece of fan effort, but would be even greater if it joined forces with some slight changes, as being attempted by Ds and Sasuke (i hope i got this right), to get the level of "heavy" directy-to-only-the japanese culture refering parts and words fixed (every extreme IMO isn't good), to finaly have the best chrono translation, not necessasrily the most literal. There can still be a "most literal", though (in another rom).
Well... now I suddenly think the lost 50% of Ted W.'s translation would be the ultimate translation. I think he just did a tremendous job with the fuckin limited space he had. What a guy....
DAMN, if only the other 50% were available some how on the net... (hey, now don't hate me for this but i JUST HAVE TO ask).... Isn't there a chance that the 50 % are still existing somehow (now I'm getting crazy) in one of Ted W's archives or something, because he DID do the 100%, didn't he, but only was forced to use 50 cuz in the end. Does anybody know how to contact Ted W. Just imagine there would be a way to have his 100% script.... Awesome shit!...
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I think Frog should be Kaeru, I mean, everyone who's going to play it already knows that his original NA name was Frog anyways, so why not put in a little of that Japanese preservation so that the irony of Glenn's transformation is really there...though, I suppose mostly everyone who's going to play it know about the name meaning both Frog and to change and the fact that Kaeru meaning those things will mostly only be known to people who already know that that's Frog's name in the Japanese version...but whatever...do the defaults matter?
As for Katanas...It shouldn't be Katana because not all of Cronos swords ARE Katanas...
Also, as far as I remember (from various anime & manga), the -sama suffix is a term used to express great respect...I think...
Ah, well, I Googled it and this is what I came up with...
Nevertheless, "sama" is used for Shinto gods ("kami-sama"). But as there are millions of them, they do not necessarily deserve the same respect or fear as the single and omnipotent Judeo-Christo-Islamic god.
So it IS used for respect of a God, and the original use uses it for Gods that are numerous...perhaps the Zealians knew there were other Lavos in the cosmos?
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It can be used on any singular or plural quantity of human beings or objects to signify respect.