Chrono Compendium
Enhasa Halls - Chrono Series Analysis => Magic, Elements, and Technology => Topic started by: Faulce on June 14, 2004, 08:56:22 pm
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I've been looking around and I haven't seen much about him... If a Spekkio discussion already exists, kindly delete this and direct me to its location, thank you.
Who is Spekkio? How did he get to the End Of Time? Why is he so goddamn powerful when the party hits level **??
(1) Well, I don't know who he is.. but I do know that he uses magic exclusively, which was brought to the world by Lavos. So he obviously could not have existed in 65mil B.C. Somebody somewhere else said that Lavos started messing with human evolution around 3mil B.C. So Spekkio was "born" or "created" somewhere between then and the EoT. Or perhaps he did exist before this time, but switched to magical attacks because they were more potent that physical attacks.
(2) Somebody somewhere on these forums said that the EoT may be a pocket dimension. Well then the gate really wouldnt be taking the party through time...unless the pocket dimension exists way after a bunch of stuff happens and is not accessible otherwise. I think that the 3 rooms that exist at the EoT were already there when Gaspar was sent there. Perhaps the EoT is Spekkio's pocket dimension. He does say that he is the "Master of War" so maybe he came there to increase his skills. Some sort of timeless warrior or something.
(3) He takes the form of a redish-pinkish Nu as his final form. And has attacks such as Luminaire and Dark Matter. Why a Nu???
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I thought it was bec ause a Nu looks weak, and Spekkio was doing a "Things are not what they seem" thing...
When Gaspar is sent to the end of time, there is no platform or anything... Pehaprs Spekkio brought Gaspar to his section of the EoT...
Spekkio's origins are a mystery.. perhaps he was sent to the EoT permeanently by another of Lavos's race, and teaches the humkans who come to him magic because he wants Lavos dead?
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There were four theories fleshed out already, but they've been lost somehow. I can remember some of them.
Spekkio-Nu - Spekkio is Gaspar's Nu assistant
Spekkio-Mirror - Spekkio is a creation, like mechanical
Spekkio-God - Spekkio is truly a god
Spekkio-Traveler - Spekkio is a good-hearted time traveler
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I thought it was bec ause a Nu looks weak, and Spekkio was doing a "Things are not what they seem" thing...
When Gaspar is sent to the end of time, there is no platform or anything... Pehaprs Spekkio brought Gaspar to his section of the EoT...
Spekkio's origins are a mystery.. perhaps he was sent to the EoT permeanently by another of Lavos's race, and teaches the humkans who come to him magic because he wants Lavos dead?
Well Spekkio says "If you're strong, I look strong. If you're weak, I look weak." Which implies that the Nu must be strong... However, he also says right after that "You are strong of will, thats why the old one let you through" So not all people who accidentally entered the EoT saw Spekkio. In fact, we dont see anyone else in the game outside of 12000 B.C who can use magic as far as I can remember. And perhaps the "strong of will" statement refers to how the Nu may work for the planet and diligently watch the workings of mankind to make sure things are going in such a way as to eventually work out for the Entity's best interests.
I don't know if he wants Lavos dead or not, he never seems to acknowledge his existence.
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Well, I DO know this, Spekkio is stronger than Lavos. Lavos is actually quite weak when compared to Spekkio. Also, seeing as how Nu are quite strong (they have to be, that can take you down to 1 hp with a HEADBUTT!) it would only make sense that the self proclaimed "Master of War" would have to take his final form as a Nu. Also, Nu transcend time and space, their species can be sited at any point in time, so in a place where time ceases to exist, because it has come to an end, why would it not be that a Nu is there? I think Spekkio is simply the last Nu, and that he has taken those other forms to guage others strengths, as he probably wanted to show his full power only to those he deemed as true heroes. That's about the only things I can think of on this topic... So I'm just gonna say, that's a tiny bit of food for thought.
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yea.. I've always wondered if there was actually only one Nu that could duplicate himself, like in Kajar. Or maybe all of the Nu started to fight and kill eachother, like in Highlander or The One with Jet Li. Spekkio is the last one so he has all the power, lol.
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The problem with Spekkio being a Nu to me has always been that he acts nothing like the other Nus.
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Thats true, he does act nothing like the other Nu. (is it Nu or Nus? maybe its like how you say deer to mean both sing. and plur.)
(1) He has a name. (2) He fights using more than a headbutt. (3) He can shapeshift. (4) He's red. (5) He has way more HP. [final form has 20,000 I think. the normal Nu has 1234HP]. (6) his personality is more developed than the other Nu we see.
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Well, isnt Spekkio reddish while all the other Nu are blue? Perhaps that implies some sort of superiority...
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Plus he has almost all the highest magic attacks (Luminaire, Flare, Dark Matter), Hallation, & Salt (although some times he uses Salt on a party member). I think his having magical ability far outclasses him from being a lowly Nu. Nu only have two attacks really; Headbutt (1HP) & Headbutt (all but 1HP). Spekkio, along with not having either ability, has a hoard of magical ability. Plus, he somehow manages to avoid all physical attacks.
Only magic harms him and he has lots of magic himself. So, I believe Spekkio to be some kind of magical entity (not to be confused with the actual Entity). His power is simply a reflection of the power the party may have at any given time. If not just a reflection, then an enhancement of some kind. I've heard that spekkio means "mirror" in some other language...Although I might have heard that was debunked too...Whatever, it fits either way.
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Perhaps he is some freak accident resulting from Lavos messing with everyones DNA over the years. Spekkio is purely magical and it seems to me that he is the perfect evolutionary being as opposed to the Lavos Core. hmm...
Also he can sense the innate elements of individuals. I can see him as being a mirror considering: Well Spekkio says "If you're strong, I look strong. If you're weak, I look weak."
But there is the gigantic gap between lv40 and lv99. so hmm...
Croaker<Kilwala<(goblin?)<Omnicrone<Masa&Mune. Each monster is "greater than" the monster before it. But the Nu have less HP and are much easier to beat than Masa&Mune, so the final form should actually be the second to final form. Kinda makes me think he is a Nu in some twisted way...maybe overly exposed to Lavos's power through the Mammon Machine or something..he is red. I dunno, just thoughts...
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Perhaps he is some freak accident resulting from Lavos messing with everyones DNA over the years. Spekkio is purely magical and it seems to me that he is the perfect evolutionary being as opposed to the Lavos Core. hmm...
That gave me an idea for a theory... What if Spekkio is another member of Lavos's race who achieved "perfect evoltution", and for whatever reason decided to go to the End of Time (Or it existed, gathering DNA up until the End of Time...) Still doesnt explain why it takes the form of Nu, though. I'm going with the "Red Nus are super-powerful beings" Idea..
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haha. Well hmm... The Entity (planet) always seems to try and counter Lavos. Its sort of like some drawn out chess game between the two that takes millions of years. When Chronopolis was drawn back by Lavos, the Planet brought Dinopolis back as well. Perhaps Lavos's urge to become the ultimate being was countered by the Planet also trying to create the ultimate being to match Lavos. Obviously the Entity was a little too late but then again, for being the example of evolutionary perfection, Lavos is quite easily beaten (by 3 humans [or robot], how pathetic). It would be cool if on the Lavos Timeline, Spekkio and Lavos eventually fought in 22799A.D. or something and Spekkio won. Being more powerful than Lavos, he was able to create a pocket dimension (like Lavos did) for himself that connected to all time periods and just waited there. It would explain why he doesn't mention or seem to care about Lavos....he beat him! It also explains why the End of Time still has time... its a pocket dimension in the future that Gaspar wound up at. Perhaps the Entity, right before dying and remembering how weak Lavos acutally was, decided to try another plan to defeat Lavos..it would be a close call, but "they" would defeat the monster right before he casts his ultimate "destruction rains from the heavens". We never see the EoT or Spekkio again at the end of the game, perhaps Spekkio continued to exist despite not fighting Lavos, or maybe he and the EoT were sent to the DBT. Poor Spekkio...
Wow, that was some fun speculation...heh
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There's at least one ending where you can see in the End of Time after defeating Lavos...Although not much seems to have changed, the gates dissapear after everyone enters their timeline. In the end there's like one left (or possibly three?). Other than that, not much looks changed. The room of Spekkios looks the same, although you can never go back in it to see...So it's possible that Spekkio left before Lavos was defeated...I guess...
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The End of Time is the temporal place of least resistance... How could that be a pocket dimension?
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Perhaps Spekkio represents the very balance in the elements, the force that the people of Zeal forgot after finding Lavos as a potential for of energy. After all, it seems that he has all the most powerful representations of the Magic elements in his array of attacks, and it would only seem fit that he would be the pure representation of magic itself. This would make sense in that physical attacks cannot harm him, as magic is a force beyond a fist, so to speak. Magic can only harm magic... Yep, I think that's it. Spekkio is "Magic", or at least that's what I think.
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It is my personal beleif that Spekkio is the Anti-Lavos. As Lavos was created (and to some beleif, magic was created) the 'balance of power' created Spekkio. As when Spekkio leaves in the ending of the return to EoT, I beleive that as Lavos is 'defeated' (temporarily at least), Spekkio is called back to wherever they both came from, and balance is given back to the world.
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Hmm.. well, I've come up with a completely crazy idea...
Spekkio is Lavos. He is only visible in the Lavos Timelines, and Lavos is apparently immortal. Perhaps he survived the End of Time, and achieved a "spirit" state where he can project himself to look however he wants. And yes, Lavos's final form, Right Bit, has more HP than Spekkio's final form, but killing Right Bit kills Lavos... Spekkio is not killed. Also, Lavos is mentioned as the source of magic, and so it makes sense that Spekkio/Lavos can grant magic.
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The End of Time is the temporal place of least resistance... How could that be a pocket dimension?
Perhaps the time period that Spekkio resides is the temporal place of least resistance. It cannot truly be the End of Time because time still passes! The reason for its name could be for anything...if my crackpot rambling above about Spekkio being the Entity's counter for Lavos is correct, Gaspar could have said it was the EoT so that the party wouldnt become concerned about Spekkio's existence. heh..right. Or perhaps Gaspar just didn't know any better, it was his first guess when he arrived. And it kind of looks like a pocket dimension (in the sense that it is similar to Lavos's, both have strange moving floors that people can apparently stand on).
Perhaps Spekkio represents the very balance in the elements, the force that the people of Zeal forgot after finding Lavos as a potential for of energy. After all, it seems that he has all the most powerful representations of the Magic elements in his array of attacks, and it would only seem fit that he would be the pure representation of magic itself. This would make sense in that physical attacks cannot harm him, as magic is a force beyond a fist, so to speak. Magic can only harm magic... Yep, I think that's it. Spekkio is "Magic", or at least that's what I think.
I think that is a possibility. Even though 'magic' did not originally exist, the four elements (Lightning,Fire,Water,Shadow) did exist and their balance was important.. Maybe that is was the Nu are for, to preserve the balance of the elements (hence why there are so many of them in 12,000B.C. and almost none in any other era (and only one when magic ceases to be used in 12,000B.C.!!!)) It is my personal beleif that Spekkio is the Anti-Lavos. As Lavos was created (and to some beleif, magic was created) the 'balance of power' created Spekkio. As when Spekkio leaves in the ending of the return to EoT, I beleive that as Lavos is 'defeated' (temporarily at least), Spekkio is called back to wherever they both came from, and balance is given back to the world.
Its all starting to make sense now. I'm starting to think though that Spekkio was created to balance the elements after Lavos fell and during the height of Zealian magic use. The Nu were simply not enough (in terms of my new idea for their purpose) to keep the balance physically, so a true and complete magical balance had to be created to fulfill the 'hole' in the balance. (I really hope I'm not way off on this.) Hmm.. well, I've come up with a completely crazy idea...
Spekkio is Lavos. He is only visible in the Lavos Timelines, and Lavos is apparently immortal. Perhaps he survived the End of Time, and achieved a "spirit" state where he can project himself to look however he wants. And yes, Lavos's final form, Right Bit, has more HP than Spekkio's final form, but killing Right Bit kills Lavos... Spekkio is not killed. Also, Lavos is mentioned as the source of magic, and so it makes sense that Spekkio/Lavos can grant magic.
While its true that Lavos is the source of magic on earth and that he can grant it, he did not create the four elements. Also, being almighty in power, Lavos would probably recognize a threat to his past, and he is simply too friendly.
hmmm, or maybe Spekkio is nothing more than a Nu who became addicted to Magic Tabs haha, like the Nu in Kajar!
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Well, I for one DON'T think that Lavos was the source of all magic. I think that because there is balance in nature, there is evidently balance in magic, because they both seem to share the same element structure. Just because people attained magic through Lavos, doesn't mean that they didn't already have the ability lying dormant in their bodies. The same thing happened to Crono and Co. upon meeting Spekkio. It always said Crono was "Lightning", even before meeting Spekkio, whom upon meeting you awakens the power, he does not grant it.
Now, given that the powers of Nature and Magic are strikingly similar, it would only make sense to think that Magic is a natural thing. After all, did the game not state that before Lavos's power was harnessed, the Kingdom of Zeal obtained Magic through the elements of Nature, and tools such as the Sun Stone. There is balance in nature... Besides, wouldn't nature be the Anti-Lavos, given that it was there before Lavos and seems to resist him at all times. Look at the WonderShot, an extremely powerful weapon harvesting the powers of the sun, or the Rainbow, using both the powers of the Sun Stone to form an alloy, and the Rainbow Shell to make a rock solid base. Nature fights Lavos because it is a force of the Entity, and I believe that Magic is a force of Nature.
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Lavos didn't create magic, he is a filter for it, as is Spekkio. Spekkio is also a filter, but as he is the anti-lavos, he helps wllingly channels and 'awakens' the power within the Travellers instead of magic being taken from it, as the Mammon Machine did with Lavos.
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Yes, its true that Lavos did not "create" magic. However he did create "applied magic" i.e. Ice 2, Dark Bomb, Dreamless, Lightning, Flare, ShiningBit, Hallation, ProtectiveSeal, etc. That is what I meant when I said "magic". I meant the abilities, not magic in itself. sorry for the confusion. In the intended timeline that the planet wanted, the balance of the four elements was kept easily by not having creatures with the ability to gather energy of a specific element and unleash it in destructive ways. Yes, I bet the Entity is a big fan of the Black Hole attack, or Flare. That kind of applied magic is very very destructive, I doubt the planet wanted that kind of magic to exist. Oh and I just thought of something. Spekkio says that he CANNOT give Ayla magic because she was born before it EXISTED. Now of course, Spekkio is using the word 'magic' the way I am using it, not the 'nature' way of using it. Magic of course existed as the elements existed but applied magic did not, that was an ability the humans (and mystics) evolved over time due to Lavos's actions with DNA. The Earthbound ones are the 'control group' of humans, with no magical power (as was stated in another forum) and the Enlightened Ones were the experiment. As you can see, the experiment was too dangerous for Lavos's well being, so It destroyed Zeal, and when the survivors intermixed with the powerless Earthbound Ones, magic ability eventually became recessive. < that is why Spekkio can bring out those powers, they are there, just dormant.
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Even though I understand its both fun and a source of new insights, I think at times extensive analysis is a little much. I think deep speculation into the nature of Nu and Spekkio is one of those times.
There simply isn't much out there on them to speculate with. I'd prefer to think of Spekkio as a fuzzy teddy-bear looking thing and leave it at that.
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Thank you, Symmetry, we all adore your opinions! You don't have to take anything seriously if you don't want to. But that doesn't make it any less serious! Haha! I'm...going no where with that...so I'll stray on topic...
I think magic is obviously natural. Not Lavos' Magic of course. Elements are an obvious source of earth-driven magic (although it might also be driven from Lavos' interaction with the earth). Black Hole is also an Element, and it looks wicked awesome, even more than the Magical Technique Black Hole does! Well, whatever...Differences in nature I suppose...
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Since when is it suggested in the games that the four basic elements need balance, or that this occurred through the Nu?
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No real suggestion. then again there is no real suggestion that they are helping the planet. I just like throwing ideas out there and seeing how they develop/don't develop. I just notice that there is only one where no magic is being used, a whole lot where magic is being used, just one when magic stops mainly being in use, (though one could argue that the Nu were killed when Zeal fell of course), and when magic becomes a recessive feature in humans and mystics (by 1000A.D.), there are no more Nu (not including the one who was trapped in the blue pyramid and the robotic Nu in 2300A.D.), and there are two Nu in the Black Omen, where magic is still in use. So, I won't "argue" anything, for I have no evidence, I just like to throw ideas out there. Sorry if that angers some :)
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How do you know that all Nu aren't robotic?
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How do you know that all Nu aren't robotic?
How many robots do you know like getting their backs scratched or like being 'naughty' and stealing tabs from people? If for them not being in 65million B.C., I would think that they were created by the Zealians. Also I don't think that the Nu are plentiful in the Prehistoric age at all. One of the women in an Ioka Hut says that "when it rain, rare monster appear." and since this 'rare' monster that you encounter is the same one every time...hmm
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How many robots do you know like getting their backs scratched or like being 'naughty' and stealing tabs from people? If for them not being in 65million B.C., I would think that they were created by the Zealians. Also I don't think that the Nu are plentiful in the Prehistoric age at all. One of the women in an Ioka Hut says that "when it rain, rare monster appear." and since this 'rare' monster that you encounter is the same one every time...hmm
Two easy reasons for that first part...
1. Robots are only what they are programed for and to do. Lucca pretty much states this when she's repairing Robo for the first time.
2. Lots of robots go crazy. Ever see Terminator? The Animatrix? 2001: A Space Odyssey? Alright, that last one's a computer...The second one turns half-computer...And the first one started out as a computer...But STILL!
3. Perhaps Zealian robot technology is, although a step-up from Ashtear circa 1000 stuff, still has a few bugs.
If they are robots, I think the Zealians probably did make them. There are two Nu in the Prehistoric Age, one gives you something and it can change your name too, and the other is the one in the Hunting Range...
Theory: When Zeal fell and the Black Omen rose Nu were scattered along with Gurus? On the way to Zeal & the Mammon Machine on the...Black Omen I think...A Nu is in front of your path, after saying something I remember as being a warning of some kind, he jumps off the platform.
Another Theory: Perhaps they are test subjects of Belthasars when he was testing time travel.
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Theory: When Zeal fell and the Black Omen rose Nu were scattered along with Gurus? On the way to Zeal & the Mammon Machine on the...Black Omen I think...A Nu is in front of your path, after saying something I remember as being a warning of some kind, he jumps off the platform.
Another Theory: Perhaps they are test subjects of Belthasars when he was testing time travel.
Aren't the prehistoric Nus there before you see the Ocean Palace accident? The second theory is still possible though.
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Theory: When Zeal fell and the Black Omen rose Nu were scattered along with Gurus? On the way to Zeal & the Mammon Machine on the...Black Omen I think...A Nu is in front of your path, after saying something I remember as being a warning of some kind, he jumps off the platform.
Another Theory: Perhaps they are test subjects of Belthasars when he was testing time travel.
Aren't the prehistoric Nus there before you see the Ocean Palace accident? The second theory is still possible though.
Yes there is at least one prehistoric Nu. I don't think that all Nu are robotic, but then again it could help in passing Spekkio off as a machine that can mirror his opponents abilities. hmm
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There is one Nu in the Hunting Range who uses primitive English; however, another shows up in the Laruba Ruins after the Ocean Palace disaster. He seems to be more Nu-ly robotic.
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Aren't the prehistoric Nus there before you see the Ocean Palace accident? The second theory is still possible though.
Not the second one...Although either way, the Ocean Palace incident still occurs whether or not you see it happen. It just happens differently in the Entity Timeline, so that possibility is still...possible...But yes, that was a theory that was fairly loose in my mind...I think I believe my second more plausible.
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Another Theory: Perhaps they are test subjects of Belthasars when he was testing time travel.
Hmm, that sort of makes sense, except that Queen Zeal kept them around after she got rid of Belthasar ( I can see her keeping the Blackbird, but not a bunch of big robots that take up space, sleep alot, steal magic tabs, and need their backs scratched haha). However, I can see proof of it in the game maybe: When that Nu in the blue pyramid tells Belthasar that its coming, it disappears, perhaps being able to transport itself back to Belthasar. But the Nu in the future seems so robotic compared to the other Nu. I think that Belthasar missed home and built the Nu using the obviously advanced robot technology, so that the Nu could be an assistant and help him from going insane by just being good company and reminding him of home.
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Well, most of the Nu in Zeal Palace itself were pretty much tour guides...and isn't there one that follows what Q. Zeal says by not selling whatever shields? So perhaps she has her own set of Nu (why wouldn't she? she's power hungry, right?).
Another Nu Theory: If not robots, then perhaps they are biologically engineered creatures of some kind. The final Nu with Belthasar may still be a robot, or perhaps a half-breed kind of android creature.
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hmm...okay...maybe...they don't really seem like real animals. They all seem to have a certain purpose in Zeal, and people dont really say much about them...almost as if they were equals of some sort. they are allowed everywhere and one is even trusted to guard the blue pyramid. or not hmm
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I always figured them as servants or underlings of some kind...They're more often forgotten than they are looked upon as equals...They're freaky slave things! ARRHHHH! Blade Runner or something!
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I've just thought about something. Masa and Mune claim to be Melchior's dream embodied, and Belthasar put his mind into his Nu, who is sleeping (either physically or "outside the flow of time", after you turn him off). Apparently, two of the Gurus are linked to some kind of avatars who have something to do with dreams.
Now what about Gaspar? There was nothing in the End of Time when he came, but eventually a ground and Spekkio appeared, while Gaspar is sleeping. Perhaps Spekkio is Gaspar's "dream avatar"? That God of War seems quite eccentric and out of place, so perhaps he is just a fancy dream Gaspar is having?
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That seems plausible. But I'll be darned if that doesn't remind of the AE arc from Yugioh.
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I really like that theory, actually.
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I agree with Chrono'99. I was going to theorize that Spekkio is Gaspar's dream. Just like Masa and Mune are the dreams of Melchior.
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I'm not sure of the exact quote, but I know one of the Nu's says something to this effect:
"Everything begins with Nu. Everything ends with Nu..."
Now, if someone can help me with the exact quote, that'd be great.
But it makes sense that the Nu are everywhere if you take that saying into account. It also makes sense that Spekkio is a Nu in the end. Like the saying, "Everything begins with Nu. Everything ends with Nu..."
-War
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Actually, no Nu says that. It's in a book in one of the hidden parts of Zeal. I believe that it's most believed to be the works of Belthasar...or Gaspar? I dunno...
Either way, it refers to some old Norse myth I believe in which Nu is the primordial ooze from which all life sprung forth.
Oh and...How does it work if Spekkio starts out as a frog? Also...I don't really believe that whole "dream avatar" deal...That one about Belthasar seems like a stretch, and I've never believed that Melchior was being literal when he said that about Masa & Mune...
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Actually, no Nu says that. It's in a book in one of the hidden parts of Zeal. I believe that it's most believed to be the works of Belthasar...or Gaspar? I dunno...
It is in one of Belthasar's books. "All life begins with Nu, and ends with Nu. This is the truth, this is my belief, for now.."
I'm not sure if that is the exact quote but I do know that the first sentence is right and how it was his belief for the time being.
I've never believed that Melchior was being literal when he said that about Masa & Mune...
But that is what you believe, just as some of us believe that he was being literal. For all we know, he could have been. I have yet to hear Square announce or mention that Melchior was or wasn't being literal.
Also, we could also take into consideration that the End of Time is not an actual era. However, I heard that time passes while you're there, so if this is true, then it could be considered an era...yet by the looks of it, existence already destroyed itself one way or another, and ended.
I have yet to hear Square announce or mention that Spekkio was or wasn't the dream of Gaspar. He can use magic, he knows about Zeal Palace, him and Gaspar have some connection. Maybe Spekkio was already there and Gasper told him about Zeal and they formed a connection (like a friendship or something), but that doesn't explain where he gets his magic from. Maybe Spekkio is an actual god? I have yet to hear Square announce or mention that he was or wasn't, so it is a possibility. I still stand by how Spekkio is the dream of Gaspar unless Square said that he wasn't or there was obvious evidence that clearly made it certain that he wasn't.
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When was the last time Square mentioned anything to help explain part of a game?
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When was the last time Square mentioned anything to help explain part of a game?
Exactly. And to answer your question, to my knowledge, I don't think Square ever has mentioned anything to help explain part of a game.
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Square did stated stuff like Guile not being Magus, and CC's Prometheus being CT's one though.
But anyway, Turnip is definitely the dream of the sleeping Acacia Dragoon right? So it shouldn't be farfetched to think Masa and Mune are also litterally Melchior's dream embodied.
Now, when the Gurus and Janus were thrown into portals at the Ocean Palace, they popped out from Truce Canyon, Medina Village, Bangor Dome, and the End of Time... at exactly the same locations than the Entity's Gates that Crono can use. Crono and Gaspar entered the End of Time from the same spot (well, approximately since there are 9 Gates), but when Crono comes there is a ground which was not there when Gaspar arrived. So Gaspar most probably created it, and thus Spekkio should also be part of his creation.
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Now, when the Gurus and Janus were thrown into portals at the Ocean Palace, they popped out from Truce Canyon, Medina Village, Bangor Dome, and the End of Time... at exactly the same locations than the Entity's Gates that Crono can use. Crono and Gaspar entered the End of Time from the same spot (well, approximately since there are 9 Gates), but when Crono comes there is a ground which was not there when Gaspar arrived. So Gaspar most probably created it, and thus Spekkio should also be part of his creation.
Very true. I highly doubt Spekkio was already there when Gaspar arrived.
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Well, you also have to take in account that the End of Time is mostly empty space...You have no idea what Gaspar did when he arrived...or where in the End of Time he came in...So he could have just as likely stumbled upon it. Maybe it was all Spekkio's creation...Maybe it was remnants from whatever happened to Time to make it the "End of Time". Or, then again, maybe Gaspar just hawked stuff from various time periods...
But that is what you believe, just as some of us believe that he was being literal. For all we know, he could have been. I have yet to hear Square announce or mention that Melchior was or wasn't being literal.
For the second time...Someone has taken my own opinion as some kind of personal attack...Or maybe people are just getting overly defensive about their own (and, of course, others') beliefs. I was just stating my own opinion, which others may (or may not...I'm not so big-headed) believe one way or the other...Just providing the other side of the coin, as they say...Or as some people might say? Whatever...
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Well, you also have to take in account that the End of Time is mostly empty space...You have no idea what Gaspar did when he arrived...or where in the End of Time he came in...So he could have just as likely stumbled upon it. Maybe it was all Spekkio's creation...Maybe it was remnants from whatever happened to Time to make it the "End of Time". Or, then again, maybe Gaspar just hawked stuff from various time periods...
I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, but notice how when Janus, Belthasar, and Melchior arrive, they appear out of Time Gates right? And how Gaspar just kind of falls from the top of the screen? Well, then notice how Crono and company do the same when they are accessing the Time Gates/Buckets at the End of Time. When they leave they seem to ascend to the top of the screen and when they arrive, they seem to fall from the top of the screen just like Gaspar did. My whole point in explaining that is, is that maybe Gaspar had truly landed in the same location as to where those Time Gates/Buckets are located, at the End of Time. And then I'm guessing that when Gaspar had gotten his bearings straight, and being the Guru of Time and all, he, like you stated, probably hawked some stuff from various time periods to give him a solid ground and such, and had made that area that you now see at the End of Time. And since Spekkio wasn't around the same area where Gaspar landed, which would supposedly be the same area where the Time Gates/Buckets is, Spekkio was embodied from Gaspar's dream(s).
This is all just a theory of mine, but your statements do bring up interesting points.
For the second time...Someone has taken my own opinion as some kind of personal attack...Or maybe people are just getting overly defensive about their own (and, of course, others') beliefs. I was just stating my own opinion, which others may (or may not...I'm not so big-headed) believe one way or the other...Just providing the other side of the coin, as they say...Or as some people might say? Whatever...
Yes, I had apologized in another thread about that. I was most likely uptight or defensive and took things the wrong way. Again, I apologize for that.
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Very true. I highly doubt Spekkio was already there when Gaspar arrived.
Why? What in the game leads your mind to that conclusion?
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I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, but notice how when Janus, Belthasar, and Melchior arrive, they appear out of Time Gates right? And how Gaspar just kind of falls from the top of the screen? Well, then notice how Crono and company do the same when they are accessing the Time Gates/Buckets at the End of Time. When they leave they seem to ascend to the top of the screen and when they arrive, they seem to fall from the top of the screen just like Gaspar did. My whole point in explaining that is, is that maybe Gaspar had truly landed in the same location as to where those Time Gates/Buckets are located, at the End of Time. And then I'm guessing that when Gaspar had gotten his bearings straight, and being the Guru of Time and all, he, like you stated, probably hawked some stuff from various time periods to give him a solid ground and such, and had made that area that you now see at the End of Time. And since Spekkio wasn't around the same area where Gaspar landed, which would supposedly be the same area where the Time Gates/Buckets is, Spekkio was embodied from Gaspar's dream(s).
Well, when I consider this theory of mine, I also wonder where else Spekkio could have came from in all of that infinite nothingness of darkness other than the area where Gaspar arrives at and resides at when he establishes the place that we see in the game. If it's the "End of Time", then there's nothing left. Where else would Spekkio go or be? And where would he come from? When I asked myself these, and considered the facts and compared them with my theories, I thought that the idea of Spekkio being the dream of Gaspar made more sense than Spekkio coming out of no where with no solid evidence, that I'd know of, of where he exactly came from. This would also eliminate the idea of him being a machine since Spekkio would have to have had a creator and that the idea of him being a time-traveler seems void considering that he really didn't appear to have anything that would make him capable of traveling time. Maybe he had the items like Crono having the Rainbow but not showing it on the screen when he moves around? Or perhaps his magic made an illusion, I don't know. And then there's that theory that Spekkio is a god and I can't think of anything contradictory for that one. But, I seem to have answered your question, Faulce.
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And since Spekkio wasn't around the same area where Gaspar landed, which would supposedly be the same area where the Time Gates/Buckets is, Spekkio was embodied from Gaspar's dream(s).
Nice little If-Then-ish statement you have there. (sarcasm intended-but I'm not being mean :D ) Spekkio's "role" all depends upon how you look at the Nu in general (I am calling him a Nu because of his final form). It is reasonable to say that Spekkio's existence has something to do with Gaspar, however assuming that the little area the party finds at the end of time is where Gaspar landed originally, where did the light pillars come from? Why make a little home for himself at the EoT when he can simply live in any time period he wishes or when he now has infinite resources footsteps away to find a way to stop Zeal/Lavos?
However I've recently come to believe that Spekkio isn't a Nu at all. He is a being that can mimic styles of fighting he observes throughout time and chooses them according the power of his opponents. (That much is obvious) Perhaps the strongest beings on the planet are the Nu, they just hold back their true power for some reason. Still not sure though.
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In the Japanese version, Spekkio himself states that he's the God of War. (See my translation thread in GD)
Of course, he could be lying. He's capricious and egotistical enough.
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Nice little If-Then-ish statement you have there. (sarcasm intended-but I'm not being mean :D )
Then that would be "facetious" or however it's spelled. I don't mean to be a dick, but a friend of mine recently called me on that one, so I thought I'd share.
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And since Spekkio wasn't around the same area where Gaspar landed, which would supposedly be the same area where the Time Gates/Buckets is, Spekkio was embodied from Gaspar's dream(s).
Nice little If-Then-ish statement you have there. (sarcasm intended-but I'm not being mean :D )
Oh, that, yeah. :wink: Hehe, sorry for automatically assuming things there. I reread what I said and it's as if I was saying, in my opinion of what I said at least, that there was no other alternative. But, it seems that he really is a god.
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Perhaps Spekkio actually is a god of war, I'm pretty sure he says so himself. It would also explain why he seemed so unconcerned about Lavos. If you were a god who basically gave people weapons (yes, I'm calling magic a weapon here,) would you be concerned about a minor thing like the end of the world? I probably wouldn't. Plus, it makes sense for the god of war to give you power just to watch you use it in battle. Maybe he just .... lived until the end of time watching people fight wars, and maybe supplying people with weapons and magic whenever things quieted down for a few centuries. Or perhaps he exists outside of time. Or maybe I'm, giving him too much credit and he's actually just an illusion created by Gaspar who likes to say "GRRR" :D Who knows?
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Nice little If-Then-ish statement you have there. (sarcasm intended-but I'm not being mean :D )
Then that would be "facetious" or however it's spelled. I don't mean to be a dick, but a friend of mine recently called me on that one, so I thought I'd share.
lol, yes i can be that way sometimes
In the Japanese version, Spekkio himself states that he's the God of War. (See my translation thread in GD)
In the american version he says the same. As long as I dont think of him as a Nu, I can see him as a product of Gaspar. Gaspar asks to join the team at the end of the game. Perhaps he really wanted to "fight the good fight", but his aged body did not allow him to do so. Perhaps he lived out his frustrated dreams of fighting glorious battles (magically, and if he had them at all, I'm going on one shaky quote here) by creating Spekkio, a being who was the king of magical solo combat. It explains why he cannot be harmed by any physical attack, Gaspar made him (somehow) with only magic in mind. I guess the only problem is that the "Spekkio is the dream of Gaspar" theory is not 'consistent' with the "Masa/Mune are the dream of Melchior" theory only in that Spekkio seems to be so limited in movement, while Masa and Mune seem to be independent of Melchior completely now. Though i could see that as the tradeoff for Spekkio's enormous power -- control difficulty and need for control.
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In the Japanese version, Spekkio himself states that he's the God of War. (See my translation thread in GD)
In the american version he says the same.
No, in the US version he calls himself the "Master of War". God = definitely not a kosher word with the Nintendo censors of the time. They started loosening up slightly around Chrono Trigger's era, but it was still put to most of the same standards as earlier SNES RPGs.
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The little monster in the Bend of Time in CC does say "god of war" anyway, when speaking to Janice about Spekkio. CC is sometimes closer to the original than CT was, like when Belthasar says he used to be "a sage of reason" instead of "the Guru of Reason".
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Who's to say how big the End of Time is anyway? But, if Spekkio is a god and doesn't possess the ability to travel through time, then after everything else ended he'd be still swimming around in the end of time. Plus, I'd imagine it would be nice to have something tangible to stand on and whatnot, so Spekkio could've found those pillars of light, and created the floor and whatnot at the end of time. I would think being flung into the end of time by a sudden Lavos-portal wouldn't be an exact science, considering they all fell into one portal but ended up at completely different times, so Gaspar could have landed anywhere, and Spekkio found him and brought him to the platform with the time gate pillars.
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In the Japanese version, Spekkio himself states that he's the God of War. (See my translation thread in GD)
In the american version he says the same.
No, in the US version he calls himself the "Master of War". God = definitely not a kosher word with the Nintendo censors of the time. They started loosening up slightly around Chrono Trigger's era, but it was still put to most of the same standards as earlier SNES RPGs.
Ah yes, sorry. Yea "master" and "god" certainly do have different implications.
Who's to say how big the End of Time is anyway? But, if Spekkio is a god and doesn't possess the ability to travel through time, then after everything else ended he'd be still swimming around in the end of time. Plus, I'd imagine it would be nice to have something tangible to stand on and whatnot, so Spekkio could've found those pillars of light, and created the floor and whatnot at the end of time. I would think being flung into the end of time by a sudden Lavos-portal wouldn't be an exact science, considering they all fell into one portal but ended up at completely different times, so Gaspar could have landed anywhere, and Spekkio found him and brought him to the platform with the time gate pillars.
Perhaps, but that doesnt quite help explain who spekkio is and what he is doing at the end of time. Why would those pillars of light just be sitting right there when he found them? Unless Gaspar has something to do with his creation, I think its reasonable to infer that Spekkio resides at the EoT to observe and enjoy the various battles occurring throughout time. But thats only if Gaspar and Spekkio are completely separate.
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Who's to say how big the End of Time is anyway? But, if Spekkio is a god and doesn't possess the ability to travel through time, then after everything else ended he'd be still swimming around in the end of time. Plus, I'd imagine it would be nice to have something tangible to stand on and whatnot, so Spekkio could've found those pillars of light, and created the floor and whatnot at the end of time. I would think being flung into the end of time by a sudden Lavos-portal wouldn't be an exact science, considering they all fell into one portal but ended up at completely different times, so Gaspar could have landed anywhere, and Spekkio found him and brought him to the platform with the time gate pillars.
Perhaps, but that doesnt quite help explain who spekkio is and what he is doing at the end of time. Why would those pillars of light just be sitting right there when he found them? Unless Gaspar has something to do with his creation, I think its reasonable to infer that Spekkio resides at the EoT to observe and enjoy the various battles occurring throughout time. But thats only if Gaspar and Spekkio are completely separate.
Okay. Let's assume for a moment that Spekkio is who he says he is, God of War. Gods in Roman mythology went along with the flow of time just like any normal person, so Spekkio has been around all through the ages and whatnot. Time eventually comes to an end, but since Spekkio is immortal-God-guy, he's left to his own devices at the EoT.
Now for the pillars of light. They link to many important time periods of that planet's history. I assume that can't be random; they so conveniently linked to every time needed by Crono and Co. to rid the planet of Lavos, so I think it's a good chance that the Entity put them there. In all possibility, after time ended, the Entity probably put Spekkio there for the same purpose as the pillars. So if Spekkio is the God of War, and the creation of the Entity, then he's like some sort of Son-of-God type deal, except warlike. And it could be said that he holds the keys to salvation from Lavos, since he unlocks the magical ability of Crono and Co., since without it they wouldn't get very far against Lavos.
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That makes sense. I think a lot of people simply go under the assumption that Spekkio is originally in the End of Time, either that he outlasts time and is there even before Gaspar, or that he is transported to the End of Time in the original, Lavos, Timeline. It makes sense that the Entity would find a way to give the heroes Magic by some means, so perhaps it used Spekkio as that means. Although, all of that is pure speculation...It still makes sense. I had always been under the impression that Spekkio had to be from Zeal era to be so Magically advanced, where no other era really knows much at all about magic. Perhaps he was transported to an earlier point in the End of Time (the End of Time has it's own flow of time, of course) and he is actually a sort of evolved Nu...Mebby...
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Okay. Let's assume for a moment that Spekkio is who he says he is, God of War. Gods in Roman mythology went along with the flow of time just like any normal person, so Spekkio has been around all through the ages and whatnot. Time eventually comes to an end, but since Spekkio is immortal-God-guy, he's left to his own devices at the EoT.
Now for the pillars of light. They link to many important time periods of that planet's history. I assume that can't be random; they so conveniently linked to every time needed by Crono and Co. to rid the planet of Lavos, so I think it's a good chance that the Entity put them there. In all possibility, after time ended, the Entity probably put Spekkio there for the same purpose as the pillars. So if Spekkio is the God of War, and the creation of the Entity, then he's like some sort of Son-of-God type deal, except warlike. And it could be said that he holds the keys to salvation from Lavos, since he unlocks the magical ability of Crono and Co., since without it they wouldn't get very far against Lavos.
ok, understandable enough. however let me offer my viewpoints based on a few details gathered so far that are not pure speculation:
(1) Spekkio refers to himself as the Master of War and says he watches battles from his vantage point.
(2) In the Japanese version, he refers to himself as the "God of War", so he is a god of some sort.
(3) He alternates forms/battle tactics based on the strength of his opponents.
(4) His strongest form seen is a red Nu with all of the strongest spells the characters possess combined, and others not used by the party.
(5) He can use multiple elements with ease, many spells that are apparently not shared with other characters can all be found with Spekkio.
Speculation begins:
(1,2) Spekkio is a "god", created by Gaspar for reasons unknown.
(1,2) Spekkio is a "god", created by the Entity for the purpose of equipting Crono and company with the tools they need to defeat Lavos.
(1,2) Spekkio is a "god", how he came into existence and the reason for his presence are unknown, but he has survived beyond Time's ending and now lives with Gaspar, who was sent to the End of Time via a gate Lavos created.
(1,2) Spekkio is actually a Nu and is bound by whatever laws the Nu exist by, which were discussed my earlier in this topic, but I'm not going to bother listing them out :)
(3) He can shapeshift, implying no permanent form, he offers to fight the party for practice, and regardless of the victor, everyone comes out unscathed.
(3) Going from what I said above, he has the ability to instantly heal the party or:
(3) Going from what I said above, his attacks aren't "real"; they don't actually do damage, the party just assumes it during the fight, as if "mind over matter" thoughts took over during the fight. One could make this connection to the thought that he is a product of Gaspar, specifically, Gaspar's dreams.
(4) If he does not possess these spells, perhaps he can mimic his opponents understanding of magic, giving him a powerful edge to always have his enemy's best move within his grasp.
(5) He is truly a god, he is all-powerful. or:
(5) He is Shadow-based, but very skilled, so he can use all of the elements just as Magus can [he can sense Magus's power when they meet, he says that Magus could teach him a thing or two. or:
(5) He is a god, he isnt based on any element, he has a perfect balance of all four so he is free to do as much as he wishes with them.
So yea, I think I've covered many of the important details about Spekkio so far, add as you wish of course.
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In the end, the party doesn't die, but they do sustain damage. If you lose, everyone's down to 1HP. It's the same if any one character dies in battle.
I think the fact that he uses Hallitation is unique since only he and Zeal use the attack. Also, Salt is his one solo Tech claim to fame. And, of course, he can pass on the ability to use Magic to others...although, how unique that is exactly is up to speculation (those of Zeal obviously had to have gotten their Magic somehow).
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In the end, the party doesn't die, but they do sustain damage. If you lose, everyone's down to 1HP. It's the same if any one character dies in battle.
I think the fact that he uses Hallitation is unique since only he and Zeal use the attack. Also, Salt is his one solo Tech claim to fame. And, of course, he can pass on the ability to use Magic to others...although, how unique that is exactly is up to speculation (those of Zeal obviously had to have gotten their Magic somehow).
(1) Are you sure? I seem to remember everyone being completely restored after the battle regardless of the result, though i may be wrong. (2) And speaking of the spell "Salt", does anyone know the Japanese name for the spell? (3) He says that no one was able to use magic except wizards. I assume that he means the people banned the use of magic after the the fall of Zeal. Saying that no one was "allowed", implies that humans in general still have the ability, its just forbidden. After something is not used for an extended period of time, it would be forgotten. So I think Spekkio made the party "aware" of their abilities, or "unlocked" them, so he cannot "pass magic on", nor does he actually teach them magic. In the game menu, before you even see Spekkio, the banners above the characters stats reading either Lightning (Heaven), Fire, Water, or Shadow are there. Ayla and Robo never have these banners because Ayla was born before humans were altered by Lavos and Robo is a machine. My thinking is that the abilities were all there, just hidden from view. If someone could direct me towards an exact translation of this conversation with Spekkio (when the party first meets him), that would be very nice.
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It's stated within the game that the Zealians got their magic from Lavos through the mammon machine, and before that they got magic from the sun stone.
And after the fall of Zeal, no one who used the mammon machine to get their magic were able to use it anymore. They weren't forbidden to use magic, they couldn't use magic. One of the former Enlightened Ones says something along the lines of "We Enlightend Ones have lost our magic. No distinction remains between us and the Earthbound Ones anymore." (not sure on the exact wording, but it was something along those lines)
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It's stated within the game that the Zealians got their magic from Lavos through the mammon machine, and before that they got magic from the sun stone.
And after the fall of Zeal, no one who used the mammon machine to get their magic were able to use it anymore. They weren't forbidden to use magic, they couldn't use magic. One of the former Enlightened Ones says something along the lines of "We Enlightend Ones have lost our magic. No distinction remains between us and the Earthbound Ones anymore." (not sure on the exact wording, but it was something along those lines)
[Woman]
A few «Enlightened Ones» did survive.
But no distinctions remain between the
«Enlightened» and the «Earthbound»
anymore.
That's what it really says. Janus, despite having exceptional powers, probably had little more knowledge than any normal Enlightened One. All of them had their powers unlocked through Lavos and extensive research - some where simply stronger than others. The only exceptional magicians who survived the fall of Zeal were the Gurus, Zeal, Janus, Dalton and (sort of) Schala. Lavos evolved human beings into potential harnessers of magic, so the Enlightened Ones can still use it. They used the Mammon Machine as a power source, probably to create powerful items, weapons, materials, and to keep their continent afloat (i doubt anyone on earth had the power to keep that thing in the air permanently)
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It's stated within the game that the Zealians got their magic from Lavos through the mammon machine, and before that they got magic from the sun stone.
And after the fall of Zeal, no one who used the mammon machine to get their magic were able to use it anymore. They weren't forbidden to use magic, they couldn't use magic. One of the former Enlightened Ones says something along the lines of "We Enlightend Ones have lost our magic. No distinction remains between us and the Earthbound Ones anymore." (not sure on the exact wording, but it was something along those lines)
[Woman]
A few «Enlightened Ones» did survive.
But no distinctions remain between the
«Enlightened» and the «Earthbound»
anymore.
That's what it really says. Janus, despite having exceptional powers, probably had little more knowledge than any normal Enlightened One. All of them had their powers unlocked through Lavos and extensive research - some where simply stronger than others. The only exceptional magicians who survived the fall of Zeal were the Gurus, Zeal, Janus, Dalton and (sort of) Schala. Lavos evolved human beings into potential harnessers of magic, so the Enlightened Ones can still use it. They used the Mammon Machine as a power source, probably to create powerful items, weapons, materials, and to keep their continent afloat (i doubt anyone on earth had the power to keep that thing in the air permanently)
According to the Innate Magical Ability Theory, only a limited number of beings can harness the power of the elements directly, including Queen Zeal, Janus, Schala, the gurus, Dalton, the time travelers, some Mystics, and some other non-human beings. The Enlightened Ones of Zeal required an external source of Elemental Energy, such as the Sun Stone or Mammon Machine.
Magic is considered to be an inherent genetic trait, selected for by Lavos through its genetic manipulation. Only living things born after Lavos' arrival can use magic. Some people, such as the Earthbound Zealians or prehistoric humans, did not have this genetic trait at all and could not use magic in any form. Others, such as the Enlightened Zealians, had the genetic trait, but the genes were only partially expressed. They could use magic, but they required an external source of elemental energy. The time travelers may have fallen into this category because their ability had to be unlocked by Spekkio. Fully innate magic users, with a fully expressed genes, are extremely rare among humans, with none born after the fall of Zeal. Mystics and other beings who use magic are fully innate.
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Maybe the trait divided the people? So that then, it became less common as it became under less people and it became more focused. But then after the Fall, it spread out again (or there really wasn't many of those with the trait) and became less focused.
And yes, Faulce, when you lose to Spekkio, your party's HP is 1. I know because I wouldn't have cared as much about fighting him if i was restored after i lost. But because i was down to 1 HP, i had to go out to the bucket to heal.
Also, I'm fairly sure Salt was just Salt...I remember asking someone else a long time ago in GameFAQs, I think...
Also, it never said that Zeal got MAGIC from the Sun Stone, just power.
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The true god theory troubles me. The thing that bothers me about it is that when Spekkio meets Magus he says that he can teach him a thing or two. Not exactly something a God would say. Unless the Original translation is different, I find It hard to beleive Speekio is a real god. I would lean more towards a physical embodiment of Gaspar's dreams. But that still doesn't explain how he found the matierials to make Spekkio.
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Well, I don't think that those that believe he's a true god believe he's an ultimate, all-knowing, undying entity...Heck, even the Entity gets itself into a jam, right? He calls himself the God of War, which makes me believe he's more like a Greek or Roman god. Or perhaps, since it was made there, Japanese. He's a god that is not perfect and can still die and can still learn new things just like everyone else. I mean, the party can still defeat him in a battle.
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Yeah, I'm of the belief that if he is a god, it's in the Greek/Roman or Norse sense. Their the type who constantly warred with each other and were more "human" than the Judeo-Christian god.
A side note, but I wouldn't call him a Japanese god. (I'm not an expert on Japanese culture, this is just what I've heard/pieced together.) The main religion of Japan, Shintoism is comparable to Buddhism. The closest it has to a god is Ashura (comparable to Buddha). Beyond that, the religion focuses heavily on spirits and one's connection to one's ancestors.
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That's true, I kinda overlooked that in my statement. I gues him being a Norse/Greeklike god would be the best explination, since it can easily describe how the sturctures in the EoT were built and where he came from.
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And yes, Faulce, when you lose to Spekkio, your party's HP is 1. I know because I wouldn't have cared as much about fighting him if i was restored after i lost. But because i was down to 1 HP, i had to go out to the bucket to heal.
This may be true for spekkio in his Nu form since I haven't ever gotten there but otherwise I know for sure that after fighting and losing to Spekkio you are restored to perfect health. I fought him earlier today to see how effectively defended my characters arre against magic since I'm going through the game to get every ending and everyone but Crono kept dying from magic attacks. Spekkio heals your party if you lose in battle to him.
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Huh, really? What form were you fighting then? I was pretty sure the same thing happened (1HP) when I lost against Spekkio's Masa&Mune form...Hmm...
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As of half a minute ago I lost to Spekkio's Masa & Mune form.
Full health. But... I remember I used to go out to the bucket for health after fighting Spekkio...
Which versions are we talking about here? I just lost to Spekkio on the PS1 version.
EDIT: Now I just lost to Spekkio on the SNES one. Still full health. Hmm.
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Oh hey! What about MP? Maybe that's why we had to go to the bucket. Not for HP, but for MP!
Or maybe I was just hallucinating or something...?
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I think the fact that he uses Hallitation is unique since only he and Zeal use the attack.
This may just be me being anal about attack patterns, but Terra Mutant can also use this attack. Let the top half of TM drain the energy from the bottom half. After the bottom dies, the top uses Hallation and then dies.
On subject, I always thought there to be some connection between Belthasar's Nu servant and Spekkio, due to this line:
This creature sleeps beyond the flow of time.
This could mean a number of things, I know, but in a place that is beyond the flow of time, there sits a "god of war", who has incredible magic power, and has the final form of a Nu. As for the mind and memory of Belthasar, I doubt the Gurus were merely engineers and advisors - they probably dealt with magic on an everyday basis, and would be required to be wizards in their own right.
If I'm making a reasoning error, or if it's just not possible due to <insert Chronoverse temporal physics here>, I'd like to know about it.
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You guys are all wrong, Spekkio is Crono's dad! Okay, not really, I belive Spekkio is a training program. If spekkio kills you, you don't die. And if you beat him you can some cool stuf. Its kinda like the Matrix, I don't belive the End of Time is a physical place, so its not that hard to belive.
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How can it not be a physical place? By that reasoning no physical being would exist in the EoT. The only difference between the EoT and anywhere else is that time stops flowing in the EoT since it is the end and all.
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Sekkio could just be some sort of God-like figure. My theory is that he is the physical embodiment of Magic, which is why physical attacks can't hit him. That would also explain why he doesn't appear in CC (the giant octopus-thingie, IMO, is not Spekkio), as the characters use Elements, not Magic.
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How can it not be a physical place? By that reasoning no physical being would exist in the EoT. The only difference between the EoT and anywhere else is that time stops flowing in the EoT since it is the end and all.
I think what is being gotten at is that the End of Time is place where the physical body does not exist. It is the end of time and all things, so mundane matter has no place there. The setting is the result of it's QT-like nature, and living creatures there only exist in spirit.
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y is time connected with space. time and space are different dimensions. but you could say that length could not exist with width, so space could not exist without time...contradicting myself again
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Sekkio could just be some sort of God-like figure. My theory is that he is the physical embodiment of Magic, which is why physical attacks can't hit him. That would also explain why he doesn't appear in CC (the giant octopus-thingie, IMO, is not Spekkio), as the characters use Elements, not Magic.
More like he's a teacher for Magic, who is conceited.
Magus could beat him up easily. Spekkio can't fully use Shadow magic, which in my theory is the true form of magic, and Crono and co. only got a part of that Shadow magic (in other words Lightning, Fire and Water magic combined make Shadow). If Spekkio was truely the embody of Magic, he'd know Shadow but he doesn't cuz Magus could teach him stuff.
Besides the point that Spekkio was never at the EoT till Gaspar made him appear or something, probably taught him magic too.
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y is time connected with space. time and space are different dimensions. but you could say that length could not exist with width, so space could not exist without time...contradicting myself again
Length exists w/o width only as an idea not as an actual physical thing, though.
In that same way, space & time are inseperable (as far as I know)...
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Sekkio could just be some sort of God-like figure. My theory is that he is the physical embodiment of Magic, which is why physical attacks can't hit him. That would also explain why he doesn't appear in CC (the giant octopus-thingie, IMO, is not Spekkio), as the characters use Elements, not Magic.
More like he's a teacher for Magic, who is conceited.
Magus could beat him up easily. Spekkio can't fully use Shadow magic, which in my theory is the true form of magic, and Crono and co. only got a part of that Shadow magic (in other words Lightning, Fire and Water magic combined make Shadow). If Spekkio was truely the embody of Magic, he'd know Shadow but he doesn't cuz Magus could teach him stuff.
Besides the point that Spekkio was never at the EoT till Gaspar made him appear or something, probably taught him magic too.
Where do you get the idea that shadow is the true form of magic?
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Yea, that kinda contradicts the whole Balance idea.
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I think Spekkio means by "If you are Strong, I look Strong. If you are Weak, I look Weak" That depending on your level he will be a certain form. But notice how he says "look" perhaps he is even more powerful than we thought.
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Sekkio could just be some sort of God-like figure. My theory is that he is the physical embodiment of Magic, which is why physical attacks can't hit him. That would also explain why he doesn't appear in CC (the giant octopus-thingie, IMO, is not Spekkio), as the characters use Elements, not Magic.
More like he's a teacher for Magic, who is conceited.
Magus could beat him up easily. Spekkio can't fully use Shadow magic, which in my theory is the true form of magic, and Crono and co. only got a part of that Shadow magic (in other words Lightning, Fire and Water magic combined make Shadow). If Spekkio was truely the embody of Magic, he'd know Shadow but he doesn't cuz Magus could teach him stuff.
Besides the point that Spekkio was never at the EoT till Gaspar made him appear or something, probably taught him magic too.
Where do you get the idea that shadow is the true form of magic?
Maybe because Delta Force and Delta Storm end up making a shadow effect >.> And I did say Theory. And it would prove why Spekkio said that Magus could teach him stuff, and why no one else was able to get Shadow magic, I mean, you could have given Marle shadow cuz Frog got water, simply because he was a frog >.>
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Those are totally ridiculous things to build a theory on. One, I doubt that phrase about "Magus teaching him a thing or two" was supposed to be taken seriously. Two, Magus knew much more types of magic than Shadow. Not to mention he was a Zealian of the Royal Crown with over, what, thirty years of experience at the art? Yea.
Three, that thing about Frog is completely....unrelated.
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Well this goes on for 7 pages so excuse me if it's already been answered but I think it's because of what was written in one of those books... by Gaspar was it?
"Life begins and ends with Nu. It's true! That is my belief! At least for now..."
Or something like that.
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It was by a nu i believe...
But when Spekkio does say that Magus could tach him a thing or too, it was supposed to mean, you are powerful. i.e. Aura is right.
Magus probably does know much more than shadow, but the darkness took over his life, OOOOOOHHHH
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Anyone ever thought that Spekkio has the power to give magic to people just like Lavos?
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I don't think Lavos "wanted" to give the magic power to the people, they just found a way to absorb his energy.
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If you look at the Magic of the Zealians and compare it to Crono and Co. (except Magus probably) there is one major difference. Crono and Co. have Magic based on emotion. Its really unpure, unrefined, magic. The magic of the Zealians are on the other hand mastered and perfected. I think it was in the first city of zeal you go to there is a lady who says, "Your magic is so much more primitive than ours, you poor poor beings."
The Magic of Lavos also tends to corrupt people. Lots of the Zealians were really snotty bastards... especially Queen Zeal. You don't see that corruption with Spekkio.
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The Magic of Lavos also tends to corrupt people. Lots of the Zealians were really snotty bastards... especially Queen Zeal. You don't see that corruption with Spekkio
Not ALL of them were 'snotty bastards' look at the woman who planted the seedling. I think the designers may have modeled them on the steriotypical upper class nobles of the English aristocracy. But in the same way that not ALL of them look down upon the 'commoners' (earthbounders), not ALL of the Zealians look down on other people. Most of the people in Zeal were just kind of nonchalant and lazy, if I remember. Look at Schala and Janus: both of thier hearts were in the right place at one point or another.
If you look at the Magic of the Zealians and compare it to Crono and Co. (except Magus probably) there is one major difference. Crono and Co. have Magic based on emotion. Its really unpure, unrefined, magic. The magic of the Zealians are on the other hand mastered and perfected. I think it was in the first city of zeal you go to there is a lady who says, "Your magic is so much more primitive than ours, you poor poor beings."
Who is to say that thier magic didnt become more refined after the Zeal encounter? There were higher level spells to be learnt yet, at that point of the game, and magic probably improves with practise. The Zealians had all been studying magic thier whole lives. While I do think that the Zealians had a certain detatchment from the magic and lore that they practised, I also believe that magic is constant, there is only one form of it.
It is only when you use magic in the pursuit of power that it goes wrong. Plus, the Zealians were channelling a bit of Lavos' own soul.
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The Magic of Lavos also tends to corrupt people. Lots of the Zealians were really snotty bastards... especially Queen Zeal. You don't see that corruption with Spekkio
Not ALL of them were 'snotty bastards' look at the woman who planted the seedling. I think the designers may have modeled them on the steriotypical upper class nobles of the English aristocracy. But in the same way that not ALL of them look down upon the 'commoners' (earthbounders), not ALL of the Zealians look down on other people. Most of the people in Zeal were just kind of nonchalant and lazy, if I remember. Look at Schala and Janus: both of thier hearts were in the right place at one point or another.
If you look at the Magic of the Zealians and compare it to Crono and Co. (except Magus probably) there is one major difference. Crono and Co. have Magic based on emotion. Its really unpure, unrefined, magic. The magic of the Zealians are on the other hand mastered and perfected. I think it was in the first city of zeal you go to there is a lady who says, "Your magic is so much more primitive than ours, you poor poor beings."
Who is to say that thier magic didnt become more refined after the Zeal encounter? There were higher level spells to be learnt yet, at that point of the game, and magic probably improves with practise. The Zealians had all been studying magic thier whole lives. While I do think that the Zealians had a certain detatchment from the magic and lore that they practised, I also believe that magic is constant, there is only one form of it.
It is only when you use magic in the pursuit of power that it goes wrong. Plus, the Zealians were channelling a bit of Lavos' own soul.
Well, as my belief goes, Zealians possessed shadow magic which really was the original magic. Lightning, Fire and Water may have split off from Shadow, and that is why it is inferior. Might prove why Magus' shadow magic is said to be "a powerful pure form of arcane magic, even stronger than the monsters'"
Plus, you can't say their magic is refined, since they just learned a higher technique or just have more energy to summon a more powerful element like a stronger lightning, colder ice, hotter flame etc.
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If you look at the Magic of the Zealians and compare it to Crono and Co. (except Magus probably) there is one major difference. Crono and Co. have Magic based on emotion. Its really unpure, unrefined, magic. The magic of the Zealians are on the other hand mastered and perfected. I think it was in the first city of zeal you go to there is a lady who says, "Your magic is so much more primitive than ours, you poor poor beings."
The Magic of Lavos also tends to corrupt people. Lots of the Zealians were really snotty bastards... especially Queen Zeal. You don't see that corruption with Spekkio.
How are the time travellers' abilities based on emotion? I don't see anything to indicate this.
Also, that quote from Zeal is incorrect. It really reads:
Your power differs from ours...
In you I sense a strange aura
of...kindness...
This doesn't suggest that the time travellers' magic is more primitive than the Enlightened Ones at all. It simply alludes to the fact that Crono isn't drawing power off Lavos. Of course, magic users like Magus would have more experience, but the travellers' can perform some very impressive feats.
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Also, that quote from Zeal is incorrect.
Those are two different quotes.
Here's the one ChronoMagus was talking about:
My, you've got an unusual aura!
So, you must possess the skill, too!
It must be very primitive compared to
ours!
You poor things!
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Again, I'd like to know where this business about Shadow Magic being the superior magic is coming from. It kinda contradicts Spekkio's comment about the four elements being in alignment and balance. Plus Y'know, Magus is a Zealian, so of course his magic would be ungodly powerful.
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My, you've got an unusual aura!
So, you must possess the skill, too!
It must be very primitive compared to
ours!
You poor things!
So it's just an assumption made by the (arrogant) Zealian.
It isn't necessarily indicative of any lack of skill and the time travellers' part.
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Again, I'd like to know where this business about Shadow Magic being the superior magic is coming from. It kinda contradicts Spekkio's comment about the four elements being in alignment and balance. Plus Y'know, Magus is a Zealian, so of course his magic would be ungodly powerful.
I don't know. It just seems kind of like it. Spekkio himself said that Magus could teach him tricks. And if Spekkio is only a being who can teach fire/lightning/water, then it kind of makes sence.
Anyway, the Delta Techs all remake a shadow effect.
And besides that, Magus has so many other tricks up his sleve. Like flying, turning people into frogs, time travelling etc. I don't think any of that goes under the other catagories of magic (lightning/fire/water)
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Lucca, or Robo for that matter, did help reforge the Masamune.
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And if Spekkio is only a being who can teach fire/lightning/water, then it kind of makes sence.
Sorry to be a spelling nazi, but I have seen 'sence' spelled with a c so many times this week, and every time it has irritated me. It is actually spelled with an s, like so: sense.
Again, sorry, but I feel it had to be said.
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Spekkio...can't teach Shadow? That's...an assumption. None of the characters have the internal elemental control of Shadow that doesn't already know it. And yeah, Magus could teach him a thing or two...maybe...except that if Magus were to face him alone, he'd get his ass handed to him on a silver platter. Seriously.
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Spekkio...can't teach Shadow? That's...an assumption. None of the characters have the internal elemental control of Shadow that doesn't already know it. And yeah, Magus could teach him a thing or two...maybe...except that if Magus were to face him alone, he'd get his ass handed to him on a silver platter. Seriously.
No proof of that. We're only limited by the battle system. We saw that Crono/Frog/Marle and Lucca had a hard time vs him. Now if those 3 had a hard time beating him, then that shows something. And if 3 can beat Spekkio, then that shows something too. Meh. Spekkio is over rated.
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Battle system wise, Magus alone can easiely beat Nu Spekkio(me=battle system freak)
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Anyway, the Delta Techs all remake a shadow effect.
That doesn't mean anything. In CC, any combination of colors can make any combination of color, without much coherent rules:
Serge's White + Glenn's Green = Red X-Strike
Viper's Yellow + Radius's Green = White VitalForce
etc.
Even in CT, you can make Shadow with Heaven+Fire+Water, but even Fire+Water is enough (Antipode). If Fire+Water makes Shadow, that would make Fire and Water low-level elements and BOTH Heaven and Shadow prime elements, according to your reasoning.
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Anyway, the Delta Techs all remake a shadow effect.
That doesn't mean anything. In CC, any combination of colors can make any combination of color, without much coherent rules:
Serge's White + Glenn's Green = Red X-Strike
Viper's Yellow + Radius's Green = White VitalForce
etc.
Even in CT, you can make Shadow with Heaven+Fire+Water, but even Fire+Water is enough (Antipode). If Fire+Water makes Shadow, that would make Fire and Water low-level elements and BOTH Heaven and Shadow prime elements, according to your reasoning.
I'm just saying that it could be possible. One can't just say that the Zealians magic dissapeared because the Mammon Machine broke. Dalton, Zeal, Schala and Magus all retaining theres shows that theres other parts to it. And we all know that Zeal and Dalton for one relied on the machine, since they wanted it unleashed to get more of it.
And it's heavily assumed that Zeal and Schala and Dalton use shadow magic. I mean, come on, no one ever saw Crono and Marle and Lucca ever fly or transform things into frogs etc.
Also, as for the CC thing, those were elements which are seperate to magic.
The weird thing about the elements is that they make it seem as if everyone is born element innate, which i think is bull. It could have been just for the battle system. Also, I've never used X-Strike or VitalForce so meh. X-Strike was probably just chosen to be Red, maybe because of the red X that it produced for all we know.
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I don't know. It just seems kind of like it. Spekkio himself said that Magus could teach him tricks. And if Spekkio is only a being who can teach fire/lightning/water, then it kind of makes sence.
Anyway, the Delta Techs all remake a shadow effect.
And besides that, Magus has so many other tricks up his sleve. Like flying, turning people into frogs, time travelling etc. I don't think any of that goes under the other catagories of magic (lightning/fire/water)
Ok, um...Magus is a Zealian, who probably knows all four types of magic despite his innate anyway. So...WTF is your point? Also, who says that the three know ALL magic spells of their particular elements? For all we know, Glenn's Frog curse could be a water elemental spell.
I'm just saying that it could be possible. One can't just say that the Zealians magic dissapeared because the Mammon Machine broke. Dalton, Zeal, Schala and Magus all retaining theres shows that theres other parts to it. And we all know that Zeal and Dalton for one relied on the machine, since they wanted it unleashed to get more of it.
The Zealian's magic DID dissapear when the Mammon Machine broke. The Zeal Royal Family is apparently just innate, though, so they're exceptions. Zeal and Dalton clearly didn't rely on the machine by your own earlier sentence. They just wanted to get more than their natural limits allowed.
And it's heavily assumed that Zeal and Schala and Dalton use shadow magic. I mean, come on, no one ever saw Crono and Marle and Lucca ever fly or transform things into frogs etc.
Again, who says Crono and co know every spell there is to know of their respective elements? Otherwise magic is seriously limited, don't you think? Don't see how they'd make a floating continent or a time machine otherwise. I mean, come on. By that logic, Every act of magic we see in the game would be Shadow based, and that's frickin' stupid.
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I don't know. It just seems kind of like it. Spekkio himself said that Magus could teach him tricks. And if Spekkio is only a being who can teach fire/lightning/water, then it kind of makes sence.
Anyway, the Delta Techs all remake a shadow effect.
And besides that, Magus has so many other tricks up his sleve. Like flying, turning people into frogs, time travelling etc. I don't think any of that goes under the other catagories of magic (lightning/fire/water)
Ok, um...Magus is a Zealian, who probably knows all four types of magic despite his innate anyway. So...WTF is your point? Also, who says that the three know ALL magic spells of their particular elements? For all we know, Glenn's Frog curse could be a water elemental spell.
I'm just saying that it could be possible. One can't just say that the Zealians magic dissapeared because the Mammon Machine broke. Dalton, Zeal, Schala and Magus all retaining theres shows that theres other parts to it. And we all know that Zeal and Dalton for one relied on the machine, since they wanted it unleashed to get more of it.
The Zealian's magic DID dissapear when the Mammon Machine broke. The Zeal Royal Family is apparently just innate, though, so they're exceptions. Zeal and Dalton clearly didn't rely on the machine by your own earlier sentence. They just wanted to get more than their natural limits allowed.
And it's heavily assumed that Zeal and Schala and Dalton use shadow magic. I mean, come on, no one ever saw Crono and Marle and Lucca ever fly or transform things into frogs etc.
Again, who says Crono and co know every spell there is to know of their respective elements? Otherwise magic is seriously limited, don't you think? Don't see how they'd make a floating continent or a time machine otherwise. I mean, come on. By that logic, Every act of magic we see in the game would be Shadow based, and that's frickin' stupid.
Meh, I'm willing to go for the Zealian thing. Maybe the transforming spell and flying etc is only accecible in combination of all 4 innates, so only a person who can do all 4 can use it. Anyway, It's kind of flawed in a way. Since Janus would have had to have learned his magic later, so unless all Zealians learn it naturally (that's why they're enlightened), I don't see where he really would have learned all 4 from. Especially Shadow since no mystic probably knows how to use it. Meh.
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You're contradicting yourself Zaper. According to you, Mystics don't know Shadow magic? Yet also according to you, levitation and transformation spells are Shadow magic... So how do explain that many Mystics can levitate, and that Naga-Ettes, Yakra, some Mystics in Magus's Castle, the Juggler called "Flea?" and the real Flea can all transform into humans or bats?
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So how do explain that many Mystics can levitate, and that Naga-Ettes, Yakra, some Mystics in Magus's Castle, the Juggler called "Flea?" and the real Flea can all transform into humans or bats?
I was always under the impression that the omnicrones, decedents, shadows, and sorcerers that looked like humans simply looked that way because of illusory magic instead of actual transformation. As far as Flea's ability to either travel as a bat or appear to be a bat, who knows.
Spekkio and Shadow magic
Just because Spekkio never taught shadow magic to any party member in Chrono Trigger doesn't mean he didn't have the ability to teach it. There was only one eligible, and he already had it - Magus. Remember, Spekkio does use shadow magic in his highest two forms. This indicates he has at the very least the ability to wield it, and if he has the ability to wield all four magics, why couldn't he teach all four?
As far as the types of magic goes, it's hazy as to if shadow is the strongest, but if we look at the double techs and triple techs, we see that any combination of two magics that isn't shadow leads to being a shadow attack (yes, this includes heaven, its counter-type - Final Kick is a shadow attack). This leaves a mystery, however, as one would think that heaven, its counter-type, should be equally as strong.
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No proof of that. We're only limited by the battle system. We saw that Crono/Frog/Marle and Lucca had a hard time vs him. Now if those 3 had a hard time beating him, then that shows something. And if 3 can beat Spekkio, then that shows something too. Meh. Spekkio is over rated.
Magus is overrated.
In any case, Frog can defeat Magus by himself, but Frog can't defeat Spekkio by himself...unless he's lvl 99...maybe. It's hard for three of them to defeat Spekkio. Spekkio is damn strong. I believe his saying "you could probably teach ME a thing or two" was just his way of saying how strong/experienced/both Magus was with magic. Cuz seriously, Magus would not be able to beat Spekkio own his own.
I also don't see any reason to believe Shadow is the strongest, just different. They're all equal but different. It's their combinations that become super powerful.
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You're contradicting yourself Zaper. According to you, Mystics don't know Shadow magic? Yet also according to you, levitation and transformation spells are Shadow magic... So how do explain that many Mystics can levitate, and that Naga-Ettes, Yakra, some Mystics in Magus's Castle, the Juggler called "Flea?" and the real Flea can all transform into humans or bats?
I really want to read the japanese retranslation. Since there was a quote in the game that said that Magus' magic was "arcane" and that it was stronger than the monsters. If Arcane is also a type of magic (could explain flying, transforming etc) then it can explain it. Maybe even Sneffs power to transform people into cats is Arcane, if the berry caused the ability.
Anyway, It was just an idea.
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A woman in San Dorino stated this:
[Woman]
I heard Magus knows arcane magic
which the monsters can't match.
I don't think that woman was an authoritative source on the nature of magic. However, this probably suggests that Magus was a better magician than any of the Mystics, which was true.
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I think it doesn't matter who can beat who...Frog can beat Magus, if you play him properly. Magus can beat Frog, if you play him the right way. Both can beat Spekkio Nu, if played properly(they just need to survive flare, because luminaire can be nullified with white mail, and dark matter is a nearly never casted spell).
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Even assuming Magus' magic is "arcane" That can be attributed to the fact that his magical powers date back to 12,000 BC.
Known or understood by only a few
The definition of Arcane. I think Zealian Magic qualifies.
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The fact is all magic is "Arcane." You do not see people walking around the streets casting Lightning do you? Not even in CT... The fact that Magus uses high-level Shadow magic just makes it more "arcane." A commoner using something like Ice would be strange enough, but then someone being able to cast the base elemental spells and strange dark magic such as Dark Matter makes him even more "arcane."
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Exactly my point.
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Well I dont read all the discussion thats for it I dont now...
But how Gaspar find him in the end of time....
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Well I dont read all the discussion thats for it I dont now...
But how Gaspar find him in the end of time....
Well, by any of the ideas expressed on this thread there was no need for Gaspar to "find" Spikko. If he's a creation of his dreams, then he's fully aware of him. If he's just an independant entity... well, the door and big room is pretty hard to miss when theres so little for Gaspar to look around at for (possibly) forever. However Spikko got to the End of Time he'd be pretty hard to miss.
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Yeah... seeing as Gaspar has all the gates of time about 10 ft away from him, it would be hard for him to miss a traveler.
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It's especially hard to miss Spekkio if Gaspar is the guy who made the large empty room for Spekkio...
I kinda like the idea of Spekkio being a transcendent creature that lived until the End of Time. He could originally have been like Lavos, seeking ultimate evolution of self and etc., and growing until he reached the End of Time... Only to realize literally nothing matters to him anymore. Gaspar was probably there before Spekkio, and built this room for Spekkio. Perhaps Gaspar even taught the virtue of humbleness to him, eventually accepting Gaspar as the superior in process. From time to time, Gaspar would introduce time travellers with potentials to Spekkio, so Spekkio can teach them and indirectly matter to the universe.
...if so... why is Spekkio staying at the End of Time? Maybe he's like one of those martial arts grandmasters of great power, who accepted that nothing matters.
Man, what am I saying. I'm just going to pretend this is my first post and beg for your mercy. :(
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Actually, that's a pretty good theory there. I like it a lot.
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Inquiry
Who or what is Spekkio? In any event, Spekkio must have the capacity to awaken the recessive magic trait in humans (not counting Ayla, an early human without the genetic foundation for magic).
Theories
Nu
Spekkio is Gaspar's Nu assistant, though specially modified for magic and combat purposes. This is supported by the final form, a pink Nu, though the flamboyant personality is not typical of Nu.
Creation
Spekkio is a creation made for training purposes.
Dream Species
Chrono'99
Spekkio is Gaspar's wild and fun dream avatar, similar to Turnip's existence as the dream of the Acacia Dragoon in Viper Manor or Masa & Mune's being created by Melchior.
Gods
Spekkio is an Entity-class being, on par with Lavos or the planet, and is resultingly a master of magic. He knew of the End of Time and ventured there to watch the battles on the planet.
Time Traveler
Spekkio is a good-hearted time traveler.
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I always can't help wondering, how would a Spekkio-Lavos battle would be?
Also, you need to keep in mind, that maybe several chosen people can have their magic gene awakened. The Planet's Intervenience, perhaps?
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Well, Spekkio changes form depending on the strength of the person beholding him, so it would be a Godzilla-style battle between two Lavoses :D AWESOME!
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idk
i hav yet to whoop Spekkio in his last form . . . apparently a red nu
i don't kno the best way for leveling up . . . so m still @ 60 somethin
i bet Spekkio would be some white Lavos form and own
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It's totally my baseless interpretation, but I think that if Spekkio would kill Lavos, he will die too... He's as strong as the person beholding him right? so if the beholder dies, he dies too! That would explain why he never faced Lavos or never actually killed the party (no game over when you lose to him).
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Spekkio is the Tom Bombadil of Chrono Trigger. He defies explanation.
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Spekkio is the Tom Bombadil of Chrono Trigger. He defies explanation.
Best decision of Peter Jackson. Leave the goddamned conundrum out of there.
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Still should have included the scouring of the shire. Anyway, I think Spekkio is a spirit. That would explain his ability to change shape. Is Spekkio really a "god", Although it would explain a lot it still would raise up questions. Infact I wonder how he got in the end of time anyway.
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It's totally my baseless interpretation, but I think that if Spekkio would kill Lavos, he will die too... He's as strong as the person beholding him right? so if the beholder dies, he dies too! That would explain why he never faced Lavos or never actually killed the party (no game over when you lose to him).
Ah... You'd figure that Spekkio would be willing to give his life for the future, but NOOOOOO, gotta watch your god of war-ly ass. >_>
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Still should have included the scouring of the shire. Anyway, I think Spekkio is a spirit. That would explain his ability to change shape. Is Spekkio really a "god", Although it would explain a lot it still would raise up questions. Infact I wonder how he got in the end of time anyway.
I think that Spekkio is Gaspar's dream.
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I think the Dream Spirit things are exclusive to Melchior, him being the Guru of Life and all.
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The sleeping Acacia Dragoon and the Black Dragon both created dream spirits (Turnip and Marbule's Black Dream), and none of them were Gurus.
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The sleeping Acacia Dragoon and the Black Dragon both created dream spirits (Turnip and Marbule's Black Dream), and none of them were Gurus.
But the Acacia Dragoon's could have been because of the split and the Black Dragon was having a nightmare... And it all later dissapeared.
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It's totally my baseless interpretation, but I think that if Spekkio would kill Lavos, he will die too... He's as strong as the person beholding him right? so if the beholder dies, he dies too! That would explain why he never faced Lavos or never actually killed the party (no game over when you lose to him).
and that's why he still exists when there's no one beholding him, right? I think he'd just return to his normal form (whatever it is) if he killed Lavos. Unless there's a witness to the battle. The reason he doesn't kill the party is because he's not EVIL! Fuck The What?
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The sleeping Acacia Dragoon and the Black Dragon both created dream spirits (Turnip and Marbule's Black Dream), and none of them were Gurus.
But the Acacia Dragoon's could have been because of the split and the Black Dragon was having a nightmare... And it all later dissapeared.
Whatever is the reason for the Acacia Dragoon, the result is still here: he managed to create a living, talking turnip out of thin air, just by sleeping. And guess what is Gaspar doing in the End of Time? He's sleeping *hint hint*
As for the Black Dragon, he wasn't "just having a nightmare", he was having a nightmare. He sleept and from his dreams some Lagoonates materialized. Oh and, they disappear because you frigging defeat them one by one in battle...
It's totally my baseless interpretation, but I think that if Spekkio would kill Lavos, he will die too... He's as strong as the person beholding him right? so if the beholder dies, he dies too! That would explain why he never faced Lavos or never actually killed the party (no game over when you lose to him).
and that's why he still exists when there's no one beholding him, right? I think he'd just return to his normal form (whatever it is) if he killed Lavos. Unless there's a witness to the battle. The reason he doesn't kill the party is because he's not EVIL! Fuck The What?
How do you know he's still there when there's no one to behold him? He claims that he looks like the beholder, so it's legitimate to think that no beholder = no Spekkio. Spekkio means mirror in Italian by the way.
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Because he's there every time you visit him, and you're the only one who observes him in the game. It's not like he dissapears, then reappears when visited. That's just stupid.
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he may be a Nu from one of the eras...remember there is one that doesn't have a second gate. Also it's probable he's a Nu cuz Nus have been around for a lnog time and are very powerful
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...Frankly I always viewed Nus at the same significance as Alfador. A novelty. Speekio could be like one of those boggart things... A shape of constant flux when there is nothing else.
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Speekio could be like one of those boggart things... A shape of constant flux when there is nothing else.
Speaking about constant flux, though this may be off topic . . . is there any relation to what you're saying here with what had happened in CT, the sealed door in Geno Dome where you "turned" the Nu off?
"This creature sleeps beyond the flow of time"
Perhaps Nu's keep the balance of everything on this planet in sync. It provides evidence as to why they're always hiding and sleeping. It was just a thought though, but, going back to my first question. Is there any relation or significance with this constant flux and Nu's?
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Regarding boggarts, it was never stated that they were in a constant flux when no one was around. It was stated that no one knew what one looked like alone.
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Spekkio (Specchio) is supposedly derived from Latin meaning reflection or mirror.
(in regards to what Chrono'99 posted earlier).
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The sleeping Acacia Dragoon and the Black Dragon both created dream spirits (Turnip and Marbule's Black Dream), and none of them were Gurus.
Or were they?
DUN DUN DUN
No, but seriously, I don't think those really count along the same vein as Melchior's. Both Turnip and the Black Dragon existed in a universe with a dimensional distortion. I think that factored into it heavily. With a single dimension, I doubt anybody besides those with exceptional power would be able to create one.
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No, but seriously, I don't think those really count along the same vein as Melchior's. Both Turnip and the Black Dragon existed in a universe with a dimensional distortion. I think that factored into it heavily. With a single dimension, I doubt anybody besides those with exceptional power would be able to create one.
The Gurus are precisely people with exceptional power. Melchior didn't create one, didn't create two, but created THREE of those dream beings. And Belthasar did the whole stuff that he did in CC. So it's not an impossible stretch to think that Gaspar had enough power to create a creature that does nothing beside dancing restlessly in a room in the middle of nowhere... Gaspar wasn't connected to 2 dimensions, but he did have an eternity to do his stuff.
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I'm not saying that Gaspar didn't create one. I rather like that explanation. I just don't think that citing Turnip and Marbule really work to support it.
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Oh, okay, sorry. It's true that the dimensional split could have factored in Turnip's existence (and not to forget a bit a Water Dragon magic breath). The result is mostly similar though.
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No apologies necessary. But I'd be interested to know exactly what kind of circumstances, physics, and/or rituals are required.
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As stated earlier by a Zealian, Masa, Mune and Doreen most likely came into existance via Melchior's dreams, hopes and will through Lavos' energy.
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Wait, so you're saying the nature of Masa, Mune, and Doreen are from Melchior's dreams? I don't understand. Are they real or just simply manufactured for some purpose?
Since they appear to be alien like, could they be of foreign origin from say a mutation by the FF?
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As stated earlier by a Zealian, Masa, Mune and Doreen most likely came into existance via Melchior's dreams, hopes and will through Lavos' energy.
She never mentioned Masa, Mune or Doreen.
[Young Woman]
Beings that are born of dreams, must
return to them...
The power of Lavos can make hopes
and dreams come true...
Sounds like Zeal propaganda to make people rely on Lavos to me. "Your dreams can't come true except through Lavos"
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Masa, Mune and Doreen ARE beings that are born of dreams.
Doesn't sound like propaganda to me, since it's pretty much true. Besides the point that Zeal wants all of Lavos' power to herself, and not really everybody else.
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But that quote lacks real definite support. It could refer to symbolism. It could even refer to a kingdom based on the ideas of dreams will return one day to be a dream. The only thing that "makes sure" Zeal doesn't is it has Lavos. Frankly much of Zeal is a bunch of lazy sleeping people who dream in their free time. It could refer to their own personal dreams...
Masa, Mune, and Doreen are in my view dream spirits, but that quote provides practically nothing to support it.
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Wait, so you're saying the nature of Masa, Mune, and Doreen are from Melchior's dreams? I don't understand. Are they real or just simply manufactured for some purpose?
Since they appear to be alien like, could they be of foreign origin from say a mutation by the FF?
They're from Melchior's dreams. He dreamed them up. Like, when he was sleeping. And they came to life through magic.
Masa, Mune, and Doreen are basically Shinigami, spirit familiars that Japanese priests often create for menial tasks in magical workings.
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Thank you Aura! I never knew that :)
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Masa, Mune and Doreen ARE beings that are born of dreams.
I'm not saying they aren't. I'm just saying that Lavos didn't create them.
Doesn't sound like propaganda to me, since it's pretty much true. Besides the point that Zeal wants all of Lavos' power to herself, and not really everybody else.
The propaganda is that the people are told that the only way that dreams can stay real is through Lavos. They won't get this power, but Zeal tells them they will so they'll abandon elemental magic. But then again, history shows us that leaders never lie to their people.
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But then again, history shows us that leaders never lie to their people.
No of course not... And they never manipulate, decieve, confuse, trick, fool, or belittle their people either. Especially seeing if they are powerhungry and dealing with powers that could destroy the world... (That was oddly specific).
That lady is brainwashed. That's my verdict.
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Wait, so you're saying the nature of Masa, Mune, and Doreen are from Melchior's dreams? I don't understand. Are they real or just simply manufactured for some purpose?
Since they appear to be alien like, could they be of foreign origin from say a mutation by the FF?
They're from Melchior's dreams. He dreamed them up. Like, when he was sleeping. And they came to life through magic.
Masa, Mune, and Doreen are basically Shinigami, spirit familiars that Japanese priests often create for menial tasks in magical workings.
But Shinigami means death god O.o And Tsukiyomi means God of the Moon (looks at Harle O.o)
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Tsukiyomi is male anyway :?
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Yeah, and Harle is a part of the moon, her name means dark side of the moon/ world in darkness ( i asked my jap teacher) and god of the moon :D
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No, it doesn't. Shikigami are death gods.
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No, it doesn't. Shikigami are death gods.
Then why do Bleach and Naruto refer to The God of Death, or Death God's as "Shinigami"
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1) The two terms are interchangable depending on moral alignment
2) Possible translation issues could screw up everything in an anime. Lest we all forget the horrible tragedy of Digimon season two.
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Or 3) They might just have used the term without it being the same thing as in real life. Harle/Tsukiyomi sure doesn't look male to me.
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1) The two terms are interchangable depending on moral alignment
2) Possible translation issues could screw up everything in an anime. Lest we all forget the horrible tragedy of Digimon season two.
What happened in Digimon O.o
As for Bleach, the actual Kanji came up for it. The character said "Boku wa Shinigami desu" and then the translation came up for it.
Even Naruto had the actual God of Death Demon thingy be summoned, and they called it the Shinigami.
Tsukiyomi is also a move in Naruto, where the person is sent into the God of the Moons world.
Or 3) They might just have used the term without it being the same thing as in real life. Harle/Tsukiyomi sure doesn't look male to me.
Yes, but everything that is related to the moon is related with Harle (Tsukiyomi). And we all know saw a part of her relation to the Dark Moon, and we all know that Japanese games love to have puns in them. It'd be the basic principal of Tsukiyomi being related to the moon, and since she is a God in her own right, one being of that moon, then she is indeed literally Tsukiyomi, no matter what her gender may be.
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No, it doesn't. Shikigami are death gods.
Sorry, Aura. Zaper's right on this.
In Japanese mythology, Shikigami are spirits summoned to serve or protect an Onmyoji, much like the western concept of a wizard's familiar. Shinto priests and miko (at least in fiction) also are capable of summoning shikigami.
Shinigami (lit. "death god" in Japanese. see also kami) is a term originally used for translating personifications of death, such as Death and the Grim Reaper, but later evolved into unique fantastic characters in original Japanese works of fiction, such as manga. The term "shinigami" may also be used more loosely to refer to any god associated with death. Although death deities have existed in Shintoism, they are usually not referred to as shinigami.
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No, it doesn't. Shikigami are death gods.
Sorry, Aura. Zaper's right on this.
In Japanese mythology, Shikigami are spirits summoned to serve or protect an Onmyoji, much like the western concept of a wizard's familiar. Shinto priests and miko (at least in fiction) also are capable of summoning shikigami.
Shinigami (lit. "death god" in Japanese. see also kami) is a term originally used for translating personifications of death, such as Death and the Grim Reaper, but later evolved into unique fantastic characters in original Japanese works of fiction, such as manga. The term "shinigami" may also be used more loosely to refer to any god associated with death. Although death deities have existed in Shintoism, they are usually not referred to as shinigami.
Auras not going to get any sleep tonight.
You should really say that you quoted it from Wikipedia, GreenGannon =D
And Bleach and Naruto suck.
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Every time I get professional and encyclopedic it comes from Wikipedia. Unless it's a tongue-in-cheek joke. Then it doesn't.
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Sorry, Aura. Zaper's right on this.
*found hours later hanging in a noose.*
Seriously though, I probably just messed up the damn letters. とてもローマ手紙
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Hey, it's not like I thought I'd ever see the day either.
No, I jest. It's not like the words were incredibly different looking. They looked pretty close, to be honest.
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Every time I get professional and encyclopedic it comes from Wikipedia. Unless it's a tongue-in-cheek joke. Then it doesn't.
That doesn't mean you shouldn't quote -_-
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What if I heavily imply it instead? I really don't like using quotes unless I'm quoting a specific person. A mash of information from a collective group just doesn't seem to be the type of instance to use it.
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So pretty much, I'm allowed to go to Wikipedia, plaguerise everything, put it into my assignment, and all because it is non-copyrighted and not made by one person?
Woah, cool.
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As a matter of fact, you actually are. Wikipedia is open source. They say so themselves. Besides, this is hardly the same as plagiarizing the entire page and turning it in as your own assignment.
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But the philosophy surrounding your theory says that I can plaguerise it. And plus, the school wouldn't give a shit if it was open source or not. They'd say you copied what other people wrote, and thats that.
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Don't presume to tell me what my philosphy is. I'm sure I know it a helluva lot better than you do. The philosophy surrounding me applies only to message board posts. And if you claim that there isn't a difference between this and a school assignment then you're simply wrong. There is a world of difference.
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OK, tell me. Your using a conglomeration of thoughts and putting it off as your own. I'd be using a conglomeration of thoughts, and using it as my own. Theres nothing wrong with using other peoples work. It just needs to be
quoted
so that people can know that YOU didn't say it. But so far, I haven't seen anything on the Wikipedia site that said otherwise...your philosophy still sucks :P
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Quoting from people and things outside of this very board can often get confusing and messy. I've been to plenty of topics that have gone to hell for that very reason. So on principle, I refuse to use the quote function unless I'm quoting a specific person on this specific board. End of story.
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This all started with shikigami and wikipedia. Wow :roll: So, about Spekkio . . . ?
Everyone was off to a good start and I was actually learning something. Any more ideas or imputs?
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Quoting from people and things outside of this very board can often get confusing and messy. I've been to plenty of topics that have gone to hell for that very reason. So on principle, I refuse to use the quote function unless I'm quoting a specific person on this specific board. End of story.
If you are going to copy text from another source, you should either put it in a quote box or quotation marks, and name the original source. For example:
Etc. Etc.
Etc. Etc. (www.wikipedia.org)
"Etc. Etc." (www.wikipedia.org)
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If you are going to copy text from another source, you should either put it in a quote box or quotation marks, and name the original source. For example:
Etc. Etc.
Etc. Etc. (www.wikipedia.org)
"Etc. Etc." (www.wikipedia.org)
Bah! Thats what I've been saying! But I guess you ARE GrayLensman 8-)
Quoting from people and things outside of this very board can often get confusing and messy. I've been to plenty of topics that have gone to hell for that very reason. So on principle, I refuse to use the quote function unless I'm quoting a specific person on this specific board. End of story.
In the Compendium? Examples?
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Not in the Compendium, in other boards. I simply do not wish to repeat incidents here.
I will however, make a slight concession. I will add a link to Wikipedia in parenthesis at the end. Much as I hate to make any concession at all.
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Um, you simply do wish or don't?
Eureka! My constant nagging finally made a presence.
For some reason, whenever I think of Spekkio, I get an idea of the Creator in the Discworld novels. As in, s/he was always there, always will be, will never die, and lives in nothingness. Just like Death, though Death can somehow die. For more information, read the Science of Discworld.
EDIT: S/He also reminds me of the Old High Ones and the Auditors in the same novels. Oh, and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discworld_gods#The_Creator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discworld_gods#The_Creator)
EDIT 2: Sorry, not Science of Discworld (though there is no harm in reading it anyway), its in Faust Eric (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_%28novel%29")
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For some reason your second link sends me to Microsoft.com....
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It sends me to LeMonde.fr (a French journal) o_o
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Maybe because the link itself is wrong:
http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_%28novel%29"
and it should be:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_%28novel%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_%28novel%29)
Donno why it sends you all somewhere different(maybe some kind of spyware? lol)
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Oh right, the Eric one is screwed up. My bad. Though I wonder why it goes to Microsoft...
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Some computers are set to go to Microsoft.com when a page isn't found. I have no idea why it took that one guy to that french journal. >_>; That's a big FTW right there.
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Maybe because he lives in France :roll:
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"http://www.w3.org/" World Wide Web Consortium?
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Moving right along....
Anyone have some amazing awesome theory about Spekkio that has not been discussed?
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Moving right along....
Anyone have some amazing awesome theory about Spekkio that has not been discussed?
Here's a random connection: maybe Spekkio (Italian for "mirror") is related to the Mirror of Whispers from RD. Maybe they both come from the mysterious Realm of the Looking Glass that Magil seems to know. [/random]
The Dream of Gaspar theory is much more plausible though of course.
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Oh, speaking of Radical Dreamers, wouldn't it be more likely that he's related to that guy in the Gigaweapon scenario? Seeing as how Spekkio's a powerful warrior.
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I may sound rather naive in believing this idea, but I think what Spekkio said was true. Maybe he's simply the God of War. He's just ended up at the End of Time, not to say other gods don't exist there either, just not at the 'Trainstop of Time' (It kinda reminds me of a train stop.). The reason I think he gave magic to the people of Zeal, (Prometheus and the gift of fire) is because he wants some bloodshed. War is good for him, peace isn't. Obviously he knew that if Zeal never gained magic, Queen Zeal would have never have had her engineers have the skill to make the Mammon Machine. (Zeal is floating due to some magical enchantment. No enchantment can be made beyond magic, I think that can be agreed upon.) No Mammon Machine, no draining of Lavos, no conflict. And not just conflictless in 12,000 BC, but also in 600 AD. If Janus is not launched, the Mystic War is almost ruined. By having all the warships and stuff being made, it gave him pleasure/brownie points/etc.
Now, someone may ask, if he did that, why did he give Crono and the group magic to begin with? Simply put, that is good for business too. To give them magic, he gives more tools to use for killing. I know he isn't the god of the underworld, but war is war and conflict and strife seems to work in all that. But he can't exactly do it himself. If he goes and fights people (besides the small-scale battles with him and the party) then he probably won't get the kind of pleasure he would otherwise.
I think he is strong enough to take on Lavos, but if he did take on Lavos, then there would be no reason for all the strife. Crono and co. would not have their magic, they would not have went back in time beyond saving Marle and the future would have been all sunshine and smiles when they visited. Now who wants that beyond our heroes? Spekkio probably doesn't. Spekkio probably couldn't care beyond filling in his quota of war/peopledead/etc.
Unless my memory is bad and Spekkio was the god of something else.
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Truth be told, I never viewed Spekkio as such a merciless being. Thing that annoys me with that is he literally is a god. Being a god, how could he lose against Crono and Co. when you fight him?
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I know. The view heavily villainizes him, but I don't see why he should care entirely for the fate of the planet.
I don't think he actually LOSES, but decides you've proven your worth. Sorta like in any RPG when you fight someone who's really stronger than you by thousands or has limitless HP or something, but they quit when you've given it your all.
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So what you are saying is all this time Spekkio was the catalyst of Chrono Trigger :lee: It's a good idea, but I think he was just put in to give you the power of magic...nah. Maybe he was like a Lavos for another planet or something and he was thrown into the End of Time, and curse to help travellers and heros defeat bad guys. The way Gaspar told you in End of Time, it seems that its common for people to come there.
:lee:
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THEORY: What if Spekkio was the final evolved form of the Lavos from the original timeline?
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THEORY: What if Spekkio was the final evolved form of the Lavos from the original timeline?
I like it. And what if Spekkio/Lavos has only acheived pneumic gnosis in this form and has only just now developed a superego to conflict with his instinctual Id, wishing for retribution for his deeds and to be undone?
Basically, what if Spekkio is Lavos acheiving the same Meaning of Life conclusion Schala did?
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So what you are saying is all this time Spekkio was the catalyst of Chrono Trigger
Oh my, no. Beyond Lavos itself, I can't think of a SINGLE catalyst to the game. I mean, so much worked with it. The pendant, The Gurus, Zeal, everything.
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Superego=Spekkio
Id=Lavos
Ego=...Schala :P
I don't know, but the Id-Ego-Superego thing could well fit into this, as well as possibly a sort of...Dark Trinity
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Id=Lavos
Ego=Crono and co.
Superego=Schala
If anything ^
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Id=Lavos
Ego=Crono and co.
Superego=Schala
If anything ^
I'd say the Entity is also representitve of the Id, and the Gurus of the Superego.
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Hmm yes, because the Entity is only thinking of a way to survive. Also, the planet could be the Id...
But what the hell, how are Entity, Crono and Lavos part of the same being?!
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You're the one who proposed the idea, dummy. Besides, it's symbolism.
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Ok, whatever.
Why is it that Spekkio is the God of War? Isn't the Entity a God? Does that put Spekkio on the same level as the E man, or is it like the Hindu belief that there is one top god, and many smaller gods? If this has been discussed before yadda yadda yadda etc...
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There's really no proof that the Entity is a god. And there's really no proof that Spekkio is telling the truth, but assuming the Entity and Spekkio are both "Gods" it could be possible that they're part of some other, nondescript pantheon.
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Entity always seemed to be a helluva a lot higher than Spekkio... and personally I don't believe Spekkio really was a god. Gods usually have a greater control over events and I doubt Spekkio had that much power...
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There's really no proof that the Entity is a god. And there's really no proof that Spekkio is telling the truth, but assuming the Entity and Spekkio are both "Gods" it could be possible that they're part of some other, nondescript pantheon.
The Entity, for it's power, is for all intents and purposes a god. However, so is Lavos. There isn't necciarily a pantheon in the Greek sense, simply beings that exist at a much higher order of power than mankind, such that it is reasonable to refer to them as gods.
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If Spekkio is so powerful then why doesnt he just kill Lavos himself?? It would save Crono and the gang a bunch of time....but then i guess we'd have a pretty boring game....
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If Spekkio is so powerful then why doesnt he just kill Lavos himself?? It would save Crono and the gang a bunch of time....but then i guess we'd have a pretty boring game....
Because he doesn't want to and it's not his job. My theory is that the whole point of Lavos' landing is to evaluate the planet's worth. If they can fight off Lavos on their own without the help of aliens or anything, they passed the test. If not, and Lavos destroys them, they probably weren't worth existing anyway.
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Well, I DO know this, Spekkio is stronger than Lavos. Lavos is actually quite weak when compared to Spekkio. Also, seeing as how Nu are quite strong (they have to be, that can take you down to 1 hp with a HEADBUTT!) it would only make sense that the self proclaimed "Master of War" would have to take his final form as a Nu. Also, Nu transcend time and space, their species can be sited at any point in time, so in a place where time ceases to exist, because it has come to an end, why would it not be that a Nu is there? I think Spekkio is simply the last Nu, and that he has taken those other forms to guage others strengths, as he probably wanted to show his full power only to those he deemed as true heroes. That's about the only things I can think of on this topic... So I'm just gonna say, that's a tiny bit of food for thought.
I really like this theory. I believe the Nu are in fact one of the strongest creatures on the planet, and their abundancy in Zeal Kingdom must mean they are of some worth. It wouldn't surprise me if Spekkio's true form really was his final form - that of a Nu.
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But he's a PINK Nu :P
I guess I can concede he's some kind of evolved Nu, and caused the end of time by the sure AWESOMENESS of such a Nu.
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So Spekkio's final form is the Pink Nu. I never fought against one since I haven't taken the journey to level **.
Why isn't Spekkio's final form Lavos, or the TD or anything else for that matter? Spekkio has seen many battles and he has seen things from the future most likely. There are many things more powerful than the Nu. Crono and co. is capable of defeating several Nu's throughout the game. Why wouldn't Spekkio simply create an apparition of Crono and co. instead of the mysterious Pink Nu?
I believe the Nu does have some special power/ability or purpose in life. Why would Spekkio manipulate the form of a Nu and not simply give them the ultimate test that will change the planets fate and future . . . Lavos?
It's possible that Spekkio chose to manipulate the Nu because the Nu really is "the end of all life".
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Because all life begins and ends with Nu.
That brings up some interesting thoughts. Do the Nu exist on all life-bearing planets, and should the Lavoid race ever achieve genetic completion, would a Nu would be found within the shell?
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Because all life begins and ends with Nu.
That brings up some interesting thoughts. Do the Nu exist on all life-bearing planets, and should the Lavoid race ever achieve genetic completion, would a Nu would be found within the shell?
all I know is that the answer is a firm maybe.
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So Spekkio's final form is the Pink Nu.
Maybe Spekkio is a female to begin with. Anyway, is possible that Spekkio's first form is the preevolution of all Nus?
Since Spekkio is a Nu him/herself, its possible that they evolve like other creatures.
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I wouldn't say he IS a Nu. He's clearly something more to him.