Chrono Compendium

Marbule Gallery - Completed Fan Creations => Crimson Echoes => Crimson Echoes Plot Construction => Topic started by: ZeaLitY on June 21, 2006, 03:31:47 pm

Title: What I'd like to do now...
Post by: ZeaLitY on June 21, 2006, 03:31:47 pm
Is take the plot myself and finish it. But I'm worried that because I'm not up to date, I could be blowing other ideas out of the water. Let me first say that having the 1 A.D. thing happen in the Reptite timeline is pretty impossible; I mean, history would be so radically different that humans wouldn't even exist by that time, let alone in the form they did in the other timeline. We can still split the party up in two eras for the Reptite timeline, but 1 A.D. can happen afterwards by some twist of fate like it was originally described. It is a pretty cool segment, but it's just logically impossible for it to occur in 1 A.D. Reptite timeline.

I'm still worried about corruption, but Crimson Echoes seems to be going full speed ahead, Rock Lee style. The new menu and the custom King Zeal enemy are amazing; this is going to be big. By everyone's permission, I'm going to finish the plot now. The opening may still be a little rough and text heavy, and I'm going to review some primers on writing RPG games used by professionals so that we don't use clichés or rehash old convention.
Title: Re: What I'd like to do now...
Post by: Agent 12 on June 21, 2006, 03:42:37 pm
Hrm...It's your brainchild so of course we'll do what you want but send Marle somewhere else.  We need 3 groups to do the Terra Tower the way I've mapped it.  And I've spent 2 weeks making the Map and cannot bring myself to scrap it. 

Let me say though I realize it'd be radically different but don't see why we just can't have 1 AD be the humans last stand.  Reptites would be the dominating species but Cedric Guardia could still exist just on the losing side instead of the winning side.  It'd be CT in reverse, we'd be watching reptites destroy humans instead of humans destroying reptites. 

It's kind of dramatic really, Marle will witness th extinction of her species from the jail cell of Terra Tower.  It'll be something for her to think about as Porre attacks her kingdom.

Edit:  I wanna expand on this more:

I really wanna push for 1 AD.  Sending them back again would require more location maps, another OW map (which we don't have, though we could just add an island on an existing one since they won't have the epoch), and more work for the plot guys. 

Feedback said they wanted more "solo character" quests and character Development.  They'll get just this with Marle going to 1 AD alone. 


--jp
Title: Re: What I'd like to do now...
Post by: Chrono'99 on July 01, 2006, 03:54:33 pm
I'm really not sure about Cedric in the Reptite timeline... I suppose it's feasible... but what about other plot points? What if something is coded then we realize later that the part has to be changed? I'm starting to think that we need to "chrono brake" the coding until there's a concrete plot planned and written in stone. We can't keep walking half in the dark hoping that we get everything right at the first try, especially since it's our second try already (Hadriel's plot which was complete was changed into a plot not exactly completed).
Title: Re: What I'd like to do now...
Post by: Lord J Esq on July 01, 2006, 09:54:37 pm
I'm starting to think that we need to "chrono brake" the coding until there's a concrete plot planned and written in stone.

Yeah. ZeaLitY asked me to do some work on the plot, but I just couldn't get past the pace at which the programming is moving along. I think "written in stone" is more than we need, but certainly there ought to be a sense of what this story is and where it's going before such major coding is undertaken.

I think jsondaq2 and ZeaLitY need to sit down and have a heart-to-heart about what each of them wants. The project can then proceed from there with fewer conflicting messages.
Title: Re: What I'd like to do now...
Post by: ZeaLitY on July 01, 2006, 11:54:44 pm
I posted on Gamefaqs that I'm not sure if I can even do this. It's just that the raw history of Crimson Echoes is a dismal trip of two years. The project has the worst possible start and the beginning of the plot / demo two is badly presented and paced to conform to our earlier ideas.
Title: Re: What I'd like to do now...
Post by: Agent 12 on July 02, 2006, 01:39:56 am
Post demo 2 I waited for 3 weeks for any plot advancement to take place.  When nothing happened I decided to do what I could do.  I do everything based on the Crimson Echoes plot thread but I take creative licensing to make it feasible (whether physically possible to do or physically possible for someone coding this in his free time to do).  I have about a month and half of being able to give a reasonible amount of time to this project before reality strikes again and it becomes something that I can do every once in awhile.  In that month and a half I want to finish the remaining of the main story, whether it be my version or something someone tells me to do.  Then I'll do like a side quest every once in awhile.

No offense to the plot guys but I think a Chrono Brake (that did make me laugh), would only result in these forums going to a stand still before I come back and give it some updates.  The project has a ridiculous amount of momentum behind it right now on the hacking side through Chono 99 and Justin's graphics, Chickenlumps AI and awesome tricks, Vargose music importing, Nightmare's and Exodus Fixing and making maps, JLukas fixing what we screw up and my coding.  For a project like this momentum is something that you can't lose......we saw what happened when we lost it last time, it took about 10 updates in my Yay thread before we got rolling again.

I want people to be happy, if everyone wants me to stop I'll stop but there's 10 pages of people that want this to continue and hopefully the final release will have any more.  This summer is our best chance to make that a reality.

I realize Cedric is unlikely as hell but we have a great excuse to send Marle to 1 AD, a pretty cool tower that can be utilized if we send her there and some plot ideas in the plot thread that want her there.  Let's take this as a freebie and go with it. 

Thats my input, I hope I didn't step on any toes if I did I apologize.  I realize I came in half way through this whole ordeal but it's something that appealed to me.  I wanted to see it reach it's finality and I still plan to keep that goal.  If I see it dying I'll hoist the whole damn thing on my shoulder's and keep it going. 

In my mind there's not left much, the three reptite timelines, trip to get the chrono break and Gaspar, a failed attempt at using the chrono break and the final dungeon.  The rest can be done through side quests.

--jp
Title: Re: What I'd like to do now...
Post by: ZeaLitY on July 02, 2006, 02:19:37 am
Okay, that just leaves the dialogue. If we do it as it currently is unfolding, how long do you think it'll be? And if it is a little short, should we plan a second project as a total powerhouse using what we learned from CE? And JP, I think you've got a pretty good idea of the basic plot we laid out (as long as we remember that King Zeal's revival is a botched thing on Belthasar's plot) that you can take it somewhere. It's not going to be perfect, but I'll be damned if we learned from this.

I guess concerning dialogue...I can still do it. Is there a running track of what dialogue is needed? If a thread were made for that, it'd be a lot easier for me.
Title: Re: What I'd like to do now...
Post by: Chrono'99 on July 02, 2006, 05:48:15 am
King Zeal's motivation is what needs to be exposed better in my opinion. It sounds like too much like a "I spread chaos for no reason" to me.
Title: Re: What I'd like to do now...
Post by: justin3009 on July 02, 2006, 10:35:29 am
Only reason so far is that he went crazy.  Or maybe he's trying to change history and stuff so Zeal was never destroyed so then he could be with Queen Zeal >_>.
Title: Re: What I'd like to do now...
Post by: Agent 12 on July 02, 2006, 10:48:26 am
King Zeal:

Definately going to be a botched plan of Belthasar, Gaspar can call him out on it.

Motivation:  Does the Frozen Flame bring out dark desires....like revenge for killing his wife and kingdom.

Length:

It's really hard for me to tell but if they do all the sidequests that I say explore al the new reptite maps and such.......I would say well over twice as long as demo 2.

New Project:

I would do a new project if it is completely finished plot wise and broken down into feasible small chunks.      I would probably have to be a pure coder instead of what I'm doing now though because I'll have alot less time.  But if you broke it down into a bunch of chapters I wouldn't mind doing a chapter every once in awhile.

Dialogue:

San Dorino people talking about mystics attacking Inn, Serran/Frog Speech, Frog's decision in the Forest, Frog Joins in Cathedral, Magus/Frog dialoge, Going to Zeal, All Zeal Dialogue, Finding Flame cut Scene, Crucial Decision Dialogue, Marle in 1 AD dialogue.

It would be nice if someone could make a spread sheet for you, it'd be a tedious job......I suppose if noone else does it I can get to it.  A new topic probably should be made for text. 

--jp

Title: Re: What I'd like to do now...
Post by: Chrono'99 on July 02, 2006, 01:38:00 pm
Where does Schala or Ayla (Schala or Ayla??) fit in all this?
Title: Re: What I'd like to do now...
Post by: ZeaLitY on July 02, 2006, 04:47:39 pm
King Zeal's motivation is, at first, simple curiosity, but more and more he becomes the Frozen Flame's backup plan. Lavos begins to control him until there's nothing of King Zeal left. That's the best I can think of at the moment. And I guess Schala...the plan with her is to challenge King Zeal at the Ocean Palace a second time with the Chrono Break in tow, a device that uses a temporal attack to send someone directly to the DBT. However, it needs immense magical energy to charge, so the party must bring Schala to charge it up while they battle Zeal. Of course, it backfires, sending her to the DBT.
Title: Re: What I'd like to do now...
Post by: Agent 12 on July 02, 2006, 10:51:22 pm
Ayla's fate is chosen during the crucial decision.

If they attempt to rescue Ayla the entire timeline gets destroyed and reptite timeline appears....the go through all of the reptite chapters and eventually get to make the decision to either stop Zeal or save Ayla again.  Of course the consequence of saving Ayla (destroying humanity), is unacceptable so they must stop Zeal instead......poor Ayla.

--jp
Title: Re: What I'd like to do now...
Post by: justin3009 on July 03, 2006, 10:25:50 am
:(  Nooooo Ayla's dead now! :(  Poor Ayla ><  So did she have her child though?  Or did he/she die too :(
Title: Re: What I'd like to do now...
Post by: Agent 12 on July 03, 2006, 11:51:13 am
had child, she has to have the child or it would majorly destroy everything.

--jp
Title: Re: What I'd like to do now...
Post by: justin3009 on July 03, 2006, 12:18:36 pm
very true
Title: Re: What I'd like to do now...
Post by: Chrono'99 on July 03, 2006, 12:24:38 pm
Why can't they save Ayla and kill the Reptites at the same time?
Title: Re: What I'd like to do now...
Post by: Agent 12 on July 03, 2006, 12:36:08 pm
King Zeal is casting some spell during the crucial decision.  Ayla attacks and he does some lightning spell on her that is killing her.  So they have to either stop King Zeal or save Ayla.

First time around----save ayla, King Zeal finishes his spell, no ice age, reptite timeline

Second time around Crono will find a way to distract him.

However, there will be an ultimate ending way to have the best of both worlds.  It'll probably be new Game +  only though since you'd have to be ultra powerful to beat King Zeal at that point in the game.

--jp
Title: Re: What I'd like to do now...
Post by: Chrono'99 on July 06, 2006, 01:33:18 pm
What's the reason for the final battle being held in the Ocean Palace? I ask because recently I've just thought

"What would have happened if Crono had used the Masamune in the Mammon Machine instead of using the Red Knife?"

Suppose that for some reason the CT:CE party goes back in time to do just that. The Masamune damages the Machine more than the Knife could have, some crazy reaction happens. The sword absorbs a huge amount of energy like the Knife had, but it absorbs so much that it briefly turns into the corrupted evil Masamune (but just for a few seconds for a visual effect, because it's still "normal" during the Fall of Guardia cutscene on PSX). The Frozen Flame which was trapped inside the Mammon Machine discards the Machine shell into the DBT to free and save itself from the reaction.

Schala, the Chrono Break and King Zeal (of course) can still fit somewhere in there before/during/or after.

If in the storyline the party has a good motivation for attempting this action, this could be a nice way to amplify the epic while filling many gaps between CT and CC:
- why does the Lucca ghost say the Mammon Machine (or parts of it) was also sent in the DBT
- how could it have been sent in the DBT from the Ocean Palace while we saw it in the Black Omen later
- why does RD suggest that the FF was inside the MM, but CC suggests that the FF didn't get destroyed when the MM did (there's a lot of abbreviations in this sentence)
- why is the Masamune evil/prone to evil in CC (and looks coincidently like a big Red Knife)

I think it could work well and very conveniently, especially combined with the Chrono Break event and if we find a good reason for the party to go back to that point in time. The only problem is that, in one single place and with one single starting action it basically sets nearly all of CC in motion from the distant Time Devourer stuff to the closer Fall of Guardia incident... is it something okay (the Lucca ghost does say that the Ocean Palace is where everything started) or is it a bit too convenient to sound natural?
Title: Re: What I'd like to do now...
Post by: Agent 12 on July 06, 2006, 02:01:44 pm
Hm....I was thinking the final boss was Opassa Beach not sure where Ocean Palace came from.  But I do like the idea.  I'd like to merge it (or just put it after) what I have for the final dungeon.

Team goes to Opassa Beach where King Zeal is.  Suddenly frozen flame throws them all into some crazy dimension.

There are then 6 "character building" mini dungeons.

Crono:  He sees himself killing everyone  that he's killed in the game and his dark self talks accusing him of turning evil....possilbe Crono vs. Dark Crono (cliche I know)

Marle:  Keep pushing the heir to Guardia plot, possibly allude that her kingdom is going to fall

Lucca:  Remember Geiger's split personality post he made a long time ago.....I really liked it.  It was something about Lucca having two personalities, a maniaical scientist and....um wild care free person (IIRC).  I'd like to put it here.

Robo:  He gets accosted by Robots accusing him of siding with humans

Magus:  ....ugh this one is harder.  Maybe he talks his younger self?

Anyways after they all get back together maybe there's a portal back to that incident?  Or even they fight King Zeal, defeat him but the frozen flame escapse.  And belthasar decides to send them back?

My main concern with this is the scene won't have Queen Zeal in it (of course you know that).

--jp
Title: Re: What I'd like to do now...
Post by: ZeaLitY on July 06, 2006, 02:59:33 pm
I'm about to go on vacation. I'll make the plot there, since I'll have tons of time. But can someone tell me what's been coded in additionally and what the new scenarios are? I don't want to conflict with anything so we have to scrap past work.
Title: Re: What I'd like to do now...
Post by: Lord J Esq on July 07, 2006, 12:28:27 am
Hah...you killed Ayla. My favorite character. Well, nuts. That's what I get for missing staff meetings.
Title: Re: What I'd like to do now...
Post by: ZeaLitY on July 07, 2006, 12:47:00 am
I had no idea she stayed dead. I'm going to go fix the plot while on vacation. Once Crimson Echoes is done, perhaps something even better can begin. We won't be getting off to such a bad start (a year of messing around).
Title: Re: What I'd like to do now...
Post by: Chrono'99 on July 07, 2006, 08:52:50 am
Ayla dead could be fine as long as the scene is not as quick and simple as the scene with Atropos dying...
Title: Re: What I'd like to do now...
Post by: ZeaLitY on July 07, 2006, 09:57:35 am
Well, didn't really mean to kill off Atropos, either...
Title: Re: What I'd like to do now...
Post by: Agent 12 on July 07, 2006, 10:31:29 am
From Sidequest Thread (I wish updating it would make it marked unread):

Back by popular demand; Atropos

Find Parts to help bring Atropos back!  You can visit her in the Robot building (note make tram where Coliseum exit is now that let's player choose where to go).  The "robot" doctor there tells you they need special parts.  Of course they are only availible to time travellers.

Availible:  Anytime after Atropos is axed.

Ayla is still alive if you beat Zeal during the crucial decision.

--jp