Chrono Compendium

Marbule Gallery - Completed Fan Creations => Crimson Echoes => Crimson Echoes Plot Construction => Topic started by: Vargose on June 21, 2006, 12:32:22 pm

Title: Endings
Post by: Vargose on June 21, 2006, 12:32:22 pm
jsondag2 and I were discussing the idea of a producers ending.

Producers Ending:

Attained by: Defeating the final boss at the begining of the game (similar to CT's and CC's producers' endings)

What Happens: Square enix takes us to court. We would use the court room scene. Each one of us as our NPC would be called to the stand and questioned. Square Enix would be played by the Chancellor. jsondag2 had the idea of having CT resurrection make an appearance.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Agent 12 on June 21, 2006, 12:46:23 pm
Sigh, I was thinking I had Mod permissions in here to so I could Move this up.  Anyways I know it's early but if we have good ending ideas (like this) we should write em down somewhere right.

Coliseum Ending:

Attained by:  Beating Zeal during the Crucial Decision

What Happens:  Cuts to the Coliseum.  You hear an announcer talking about a new Champion who is crazy strong.  Crono walks, you then here the announcer say that someone wants to challenge him.  Enter a possible sprite import from another game.   Cue credits, or special fight depending on how lazy we are.

--jp
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Agent 12 on June 21, 2006, 02:00:39 pm
Alrighty here I go......I'm prepared to get eaten up alive for this but I think it's got real potential

Main Ending:

Attained by:  Defeating Zeal after last dungeon

What happens:  You see Zeal fall to the ground defeated, Magus runs to where Schala has dissapeared witht he time devouerer.  Magus says some cryptic lines.  Fades to black......Textbox (2 years later):

Guardia Castle near bottom, you hear sword sounds and a textbox of Porre screaming to let them in.  Scroll up to the throne, Marle in Queen outfit (remember Guardia is dead), With Crono next to her, and a few soldiers.  Crono takes out his sword.  Porre breaks through (many of them) and the fight begins.  Crono takes out 3 before Marle falls. Crono runs over and Marle orders him to stop fighting, saying that he must save their kid, there's a secret back entrance he can use to escape.  Crono shakes head and fights some more, but Marle keeps telling him and he finally breaks downa and runs up the stairs to Marle's room.  A child is there that he grabs, and runs out.

Cut to Truce Ferry:  Crono walks in, Ferry man is scared because of Porre's attack but will gladly stow away Crono and his child saying he'll always be a citizen of Guardia.  Cut to a new location (El Nido) Crono walks in.  A man greets him

"Welcome to El Nido the new paradise on Earth, what's your name"
(Chrono nods head a few times)
"Miguel, and what's the little girl's name"
(nods head)
"Leena eh, well come right over here and we'll find you a place to stay"

Yup,, the Miguel=Crono theory.  I really like it.  I think it's dramatic and is alot better than Crono dying.

Here's a link if you haven't read it:

http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Miguel_%28Identity_of%29.html

--jp
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Shinrin on June 24, 2006, 01:48:22 am
I do see a problem however. Crono never talks. Miguel talks though. How could Miguel talk if Crono is a mute and Crono = Miguel?

The Crono and Serge Convo:

Serge: ...
Crono: ......
Serge: ...!

Edit: An Idea, as I'm gonna try to work CE in with my CT hack that ties in with other stories of mine. Crono and marle could have another kid before the other baby. But due to something happening this other kid is at the orphanage playing with kid. So the only kid they would have to protect is the daughter. We could do this since we don't know what happen between the fall of King Zeal, and before the daughter of Crono and Marle, Thus still using the Miguel = Crono method. Just a thought though.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Hadriel on June 24, 2006, 04:15:43 am
If we're gonna do a developers' ending, we should make it as utterly bizarre and lighthearted as we can come up with.  After the exercise in wrist-slitting that was the plot I ended up writing, there needs to be some levity that isn't derived from Magus berating some bitches.

I've got to say, SE taking us to court is the most brilliant story idea I've heard from anyone.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: nightmare975 on June 24, 2006, 01:20:40 pm
We also need a bad ending though
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Chrono'99 on June 24, 2006, 02:59:32 pm
We also need a bad ending though
You mean, like in CC?? :lee:

If you mean like in CT then it's better yeah.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: nightmare975 on June 24, 2006, 03:20:19 pm
Yeah, one like in CT.  :D

I would think up of one, but I really don't know much about the end of the game.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: justin3009 on June 26, 2006, 10:01:02 am
Well, since king zeal is the big bad dude or w/e...Maybe have him in a throne with Crono and Team's dead bodies lying in front of him, then have him laughing...And have some creepy music playing in the background to set the mood.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: nightmare975 on June 26, 2006, 12:19:55 pm
I'm actually thinking that maybe more like when you lost to Magus. You guys lose and Zeal continues what he was doing.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Vargose on June 28, 2006, 03:01:10 pm
I do see a problem however. Crono never talks. Miguel talks though. How could Miguel talk if Crono is a mute and Crono = Miguel?

Well to be fair neither are really mute. Read the dialog, they obviously talk, we just don't hear what they say. This is only because some one a long time ago decided this helped the player assume the identity of the main character.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: ZeaLitY on July 21, 2006, 04:18:43 pm
As jsondag2 and ZeaLitY are working on the game, Sakaguchi and Horii bust in and demand we relinquish control of the project to them. They enslave the entire team and lock us up for two days. They then present to us the drama of a member of Zeal's elite air squadron, named S.K.Y. None of the original characters are present.

Yes, this is an actual dream I had last night.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Chrono'99 on August 02, 2006, 06:13:34 pm
I do see a problem however. Crono never talks. Miguel talks though. How could Miguel talk if Crono is a mute and Crono = Miguel?

Well to be fair neither are really mute. Read the dialog, they obviously talk, we just don't hear what they say. This is only because some one a long time ago decided this helped the player assume the identity of the main character.
They both talk, but do you really imagine Crono saying those lines:

Quote
Wazuki:
   What is this place?

Miguel:
   I don't know...
   but I don't think we're
   supposed to know about it...


 [Schala]
   That child...

   That wounded child...
   
   Bring him to me...

Miguel:
   W-What was that...?
   Who's there!?

Miguel:
   Wait, Wazuki!!!
   Where are you going!?


Wazuki:
   There's no way we can set
   sail again in this storm.
   We don't have a second to
   waste...
   Or else...Serge will...

Miguel:
   BUT...!!!


Wazuki:
   I don't care what lies
   ahead of us...
   I'm going.
   There's no way I'll allow
   my son to die without
   a fight!
   I'd appreciate it if
   you waited for me here.
   Thank you for coming tonight,
   Miguel... Thank you.

Miguel:
   No! Wait!
   WAZUKI!!!
Miguel sounds totally frightened by Chronopolis, a futuristic building. Crono has conquered everything from the Tyran's Fortress to the Black Omen and, while we didn't see his dialogues, he never seemed to be scared by the situations.

If Crono was really in that scene at Chronopolis, he would have run forward and shouted "Let's go into the NOW!" like he did in the CT slideshow ending...
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Agent 12 on August 02, 2006, 06:47:15 pm
hm...

I could see him saying all the other Miguel lines (talking about the future Serge Killed, explaining the entire story of Chrono Trigger). 

That dialgogue could be chalked up to seeing his friend enter this strange place with an injured boy and the fear that he may never see his daughter again.

.....that is a stretch though.

--jp
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: nightmare975 on August 02, 2006, 07:13:30 pm
Maybe he could lose his memories, ala Kingdom Hearts :D
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Daniel Krispin on August 07, 2006, 04:30:30 am
I like the Crono/Miguel idea as well. If you don't do that, I'd maintain you should at least make the two of them NPC soldiers in the Porre army (sort of El Nido mercenaries in their youth fighting abroad).

But anyway, I don't see too much trouble with the dialogue. Yeah, Crono might have survived all those things, but after a time of crisis is over, one tends to relapse. Living in the paradise that is El Nido would certainly have softened him. Moreover, he would likely have been of the opinion that his adventuring days were over. He would thus have been living for what, a few years, with the assumption that he would live out his days as a peasant in peace. When suddenly he comes to Chronopolis, it's like an old shadow or fear from the past that you managed to put behind you suddenly rearing its head - it would be almost more frightening than the original! He walks in and knows - that's why he's afraid, because he's not ignorant. He knows there's a problem. He knows that isn't supposed to be there. He's thinking 'oh, shit, we've got major problems now', and it's unsettling him. A voice? Is that Lavos? No, it can't be... can it? That sort of thing. After all, think about it - what is more frightening than an enemy you thought defeated resurrected? When Sauron was suddenly proven to be alive, even wise Gandalf was afraid; when the company journeys through Moria, and the unexpected happens - a Balrog of Morgoth, a demon of ancient days 6,000 years past, a champion of the first and far more powerful Dark Lord, awakes and stands against him - even he, wisest of the angels, is afraid. He had been around since... well, since creation, had gone on innumerable journeys (as Aragorn puts it when they enter Moria, far darker journeys than this... though he wasn't counting on a Balrog... I think that took the cake for Gandalf, and at that moment he was probably cursing himself for welcoming Pippin along as opposed to say, Glorfindel, who had actually killed a Balrog once before), even this mighty being was afraid. So I don't think that Crono would be some kind of stoic to danger, especially not after having let his guard down for a few years. So the Miguel dialogue doesn't conflict. What might conflict, however, is how FATE manages to imprision him. Serge defeats FATE (defeats Miguel, too, at about the half-way mark), which would imply Serge to be far stronger in battle and all than Crono, which I don't think to be the case. Even if he was weakened, a mid quest Serge would not be able to overcome even an aged Crono.

You see, I would think a post-Fall Crono is nearer the ranger Aragorn from Lord of the Rings - dour, hardened, and probably amongst the toughest fighters one would ever encounter, having forgotten more about combat and magic than most ever learn... especially a kid like Serge who relies on elements. Crono's only mortal equal or greater in the whole world is the dark prince Janus and his sister. That's not to mean he can't get frightened now and again - especially if he knows the potential danger (and age makes someone wary - an older Crono would be far less reckless than the young one apparently is.)
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: CyberSarkany on August 07, 2006, 09:45:03 am
Well, if you do the Crono=Miguel Ending, you know, you actually make us killing Crono(CC) and that's something I don't like(that's why I don't believe in this theory: Killing Crono, and then not even evil guys who do so, would be anti-cool; Our Hero waiting for ages prisoned in the Tower of Geddon and then gets killed by us  :shock:).

I think both Marle and Crono should survive(just like open ending, they go hiding and build a resistance, something I would expect Chrono Brake to start with), but that's only my opinion.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Agent 12 on August 07, 2006, 10:31:25 am
I always envisioned Serge and co. as "Freeing" him instead of "killing" him.  That could just be me compromising though.

--jp
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Chrono'99 on August 07, 2006, 11:35:37 am
I agree with CyberSarkany about the Crono/Miguel controversy, but in all cases I still think it's too simple to send Crono and Marle into hiding. Even if they couldn't defeat the entire Porrean army, going into hiding (for years!) sounds much more like running away than an action to protect their baby. If they really wanted to protect their baby while continuing to fight, they could have entrusted him/her to a lot of people (Melchior, Crono's Mom, anybody from Guardia Castle, etc.).

Well, we all know that Porre eventually invade, so instead of risking having this rule applied to our game:

Quote from: The Grand List Of Console Role Playing Game Clichés
Maginot Line Rule
It is easy to tell which city/nation is the next conquest of the Evil Empire: its streets are filled with citizens who brag that the Empire would never dare attack them, and would be easily defeated if it tried. (This smug nationalism always fails to take into account the Empire's new superweapon.)

Why not twist the event a bit and make the invasion actually surprising to the player? i.e., why not say that Porre were actually the good guys in the war? This would explain a bunch of stuff and contradict nothing in my opinion.

Imagine if Guardia were the bad guys, what would Crono and Marle have done? Imagine if there was some sort of anti-Monarchy rebellion in Guardia with support from nearly all the population: would Crono and Marle try to protect the king? probably, but would Crono and Marle draw swords against their own population? I don't think they would. I believe they would prefer to try some diplomatic talk rather than to go slaughter Fritz and compagny.

With these popular uprisings, the Porreans would appear as the good guys. Opposed to the age-old monarchal state of Guardia would be Porre, the modern state driven by trade and liberalism (I say Liberalism because the Viper Clan from Porre actually ruled El Nido, it wasn't a "personal property of the Emperor of Porre" or anything like that).

Thus, Porre would ally with the rebel Guardian population to help fight the monarchy. The only real massacre would be committed by the guy who stole the Masamune, but Porre itself would not touch the population (of course, since they're allies). On the contrary, they would protect it and fight back the Masamune stealer.

Crono and Marle would help defeat the guy who stole the Masamune. They would point at the massacre he committed to try to convince the population that Porre are just a bunch of evil imperialists, but the population would point at the fact that the guy would never have committed this massacre to being with if he hadn't been driven mad by the Masamune, a weapon coming from the Guardian monarchy.

Unable to prevent Porre from effectively assuming control of Guardia, Crono and Marle would be forced to either go into exile OR resort to accept the popular movement so that they could keep on living in the country. The latter choice is notable because that's probably what Lucca did herself ("what's done is done, I should take care of all those orphans now instead of drawing weapons again and risking another massacre"... something like that). This would explain why Lucca stayed in Guardia after the fall and even continued to buy goods from Porre.

I don't think there's anything in the games which contradicts this point of view. It explains what Crono and Marle could have done, what Lucca did, and even why Guardia became a sovereign country again by 1,020 AD (Porre assumed control for some years to help organize things, and they withdrawn from the country when the new government was ready).

Norris' Frozen Flame quote may also point towards this theory (Porre is menaced by other major countries). Radius' comment about Guardia having once been a "peaceful country" could refer to the times before the monarchy became unpopular, and could mean that the new country is still not totally stabilized. Radius claiming that Porre are bad could be attributed to the fact that the Acacia Dragoons became opposed to Porre years after 1,005 AD. And of course, by 1,020 AD Porre became effectively a little militaristic, but that's 15 years after the incident with Guardia.

The only thing to gap is to find a reason for the population to rebel against the Guardian royalty, but it's not really difficult. Stuff like that happened a lot of times in real history.


So... comments?
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Agent 12 on August 07, 2006, 11:52:37 am

Quote
The only thing to gap is to find a reason for the population to rebel against the Guardian royalty, but it's not really difficult. Stuff like that happened a lot of times in real history.

That seems kind of stretched.   Even if we did change the Crimson Echoes text, things seemed awfull peaceful two years prior to the game.

Another problem is we've spent an awful lot of time making Porre out to be a Militaristic bad guy already.


--jp
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Chrono'99 on August 07, 2006, 12:01:05 pm
Porre are the bad guys in the game, but it's only because of King Zeal no? Without him, things would be different.

Also, IIRC Porre is helped by a Reptite to attack Guardia in 1,005 AD in the current story outline. If this Reptite guy manipulates the Guardian population instead of Porre, this could provide one reason for the pop to rise against the king.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: CyberSarkany on August 07, 2006, 12:30:03 pm
Do we actually know that guardia is defeated during the event in CC? I know it is quoted somewhere, but who knows if it's true(they could just have said so people in El Nido won't fight against them or something).
Wasn't Norris(the one you don't play) called back to Porre? Maybe because Guardia launched a counter attack and they needed all forces?

As long as Crono survives, I don't care :fanboy:
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Chrono'99 on August 13, 2006, 07:22:57 pm
It's official now. Miguel isn't Crono:

http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?topic=586.msg57611#msg57611
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Vehek on August 13, 2006, 07:26:26 pm
How many endings can you have? From what I've read, you don't have any portals to take you to King Zeal at any point in the game.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Vargose on August 14, 2006, 10:24:20 am
How many endings can you have? From what I've read, you don't have any portals to take you to King Zeal at any point in the game.

Not yet, we don't. But be sure that we will.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Agent 12 on August 14, 2006, 11:07:16 am
wow......can't believe we never looked at that before........damn

I'm pretty sure we'll probably add the "blue light" to the telepod room again to take them to the end of the game for ending purposes.

--jp
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Chrono'99 on August 14, 2006, 02:54:46 pm
Does my "Guardian Revolution" theory interest someone? I ask because I should consider posting it in the Analysis forum if not.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: ZeaLitY on August 14, 2006, 03:23:29 pm
Yeah, it's already in the Fates of the CT Team article in some form. My only question is what happens to Crono and Marle after they go into exile. Should they be implied to have some kind of return later on?
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Chrono'99 on August 14, 2006, 04:00:16 pm
They may have come back, considering the drawings in Lucca's orphanage.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: nightmare975 on August 14, 2006, 09:17:11 pm
Why don't we use Chrono Crisis's theory?
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: justin3009 on August 15, 2006, 12:50:07 am
That would be kinda like theft.  And/or plagorizing from someone elses idea.  You'd have to ask him first.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: nightmare975 on August 15, 2006, 08:54:08 pm
Damn, because their way makes sense, kind of.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Daniel Krispin on August 16, 2006, 02:45:27 am
Why don't we use Chrono Crisis's theory?

What'd they do?
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: nightmare975 on August 16, 2006, 01:28:48 pm
I quote this from the Chrono Crisis Forums

Quote
1026 AD

The Forgotten Fields of Time
Click here for world map

The home time of the three founding members of the Heroes of Time, and also six years after the events surrounding the mysterious archipelago of El Nido. In 1000 AD, there was nothing but peace among the kingdoms--crime was low and the people were generally prosperous. Within the span of five years, this changed. Ever since the great war of 1005, Guardia has been in shambles. The town of Truce was burned to the ground, and many of the townspeople killed. The orphans were taken in by Lucca Ashtear, who founded an orphanage in hopes of keeping the kids off the streets. Unfortunately, ten years later, disaster struck, and Lucca's orphanage mysteriously burned to the ground. Several of the orphans were killed, and Lucca vanished.

According to historical documents dating back to 1075 AD, the King and Queen at the time of the war, Chrono and Nadia, had fled Guardia after being outnumbered in battle. Hoping to start new lives for themselves and unable to face the horrors that had befallen their home country, Chrono and Nadia lived in hiding together, where Nadia gave birth to a child. In 1016, the two returned to Guardia, and were horrified by what they saw. They then began a two year long campaign to win their country back diplomatically. While the two were in Porre trying diplomacy, the people of Truce began fighting back. A group of rebels and thieves calling themselves the "Radical Dreamers" appeared, with a youth known only as "Kid" at their lead. Seen as ruthless criminals in Porre, the Radical Dreamers gave many of their stealings to the people of Truce, and helped hold off Porrean occupying soldiers.

Eventually, after a long set of talks with the Porre Emperor, King Chrono and Queen Nadia were allowed back into Guardia to reconstruct Truce with the help of the Porre Military. Some find this chapter in history to be befuddling--why would Porre give Guardia up so easily? There also is a lack of photographic evidence from this era, a strange lapse that has caused some scientists and historians to become skeptical over the validity of the events described in the historical documents. However, no one can deny that the kingdom was refounded, and most are comfortable with the story they learned in school.

Regardless of the reason, in 1026, things are not going well in Guardia, even after the return of its King and Queen. The people have little money, and the Radical Dreamers have been branded outlaws by Guardian officials. The people of Truce have begun rallying behind their heroes, against the king. Most of the Radical Dreamers blame their decline on the dissapearence of their leader and guiding light, Kid, who went missing in 1020 AD.

A year after her disappearance, a young man arrived in Porre, searching for her. Knowing next to nothing about Guardia or Porre, or the Radical Dreamers for that matter, he traveled to Truce Village, with only a vague description of her. He soon met up with the Radical Dreamers, and ended up joining their cause. He is now a key player in their missions, and seems to be strongly in the opinion that the Guardian royals know of Kid's fate.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: ZeaLitY on August 16, 2006, 04:12:46 pm
Yeah, they still aren't ones to flee when outnumbered...
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Daniel Krispin on August 18, 2006, 02:38:33 am
Yeah, they still aren't ones to flee when outnumbered...

No, prudence was never one of their virtues, was it? After all, what sorts of fey fools must they have been to battle a set fate and the strongest creature to ever dwell in the world? Their creed is rather that old line of Vergil's: 'una salus victis, nullem sperare salutem' - the last hope for the defeated is to abandon all hope for salvation. That's how they fought, and that is how they won.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: nightmare975 on August 30, 2006, 04:51:09 pm
New Game + ending: Back to the Future Parody

Chrono and Marle are at the telepods in Lenne Square, Marle and Chrono "talk" for a while about hoping that their future will be bright or what not. Suddenly, Belthsar appears through the old time portal and acts like doc, telling them that they need to go back with him to the future. They then run down to the pickleman and Marle asks what he is doing. Belthsar states that he needs fuel and then Chrono(yes I know) says "But don't we need to go back to the old portal?" And Belthsar just says, "Portals? Where we're going he don't need portals." And then a flash of light and they're gone.

I don't know what you need to do yet to get this ending.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: TheOutlaw on August 31, 2006, 11:06:19 am
That ending would definately have to occur with beating the final boss very early on.

We could also do a Magus Vs. King Zeal ending, kind of a parody on the Frog vs. Magus ending
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Agent 12 on August 31, 2006, 09:03:00 pm
hahaha I like that ending.

--jp
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Shinrin on October 07, 2006, 08:27:03 pm
hmm. Considering that Crono is not maguel from chrono cross, I'm thinking about something i had in mind for my CT:ToF story.

Crono and Marle are with there 3 year old son, (who's name is Shinrin, yeah i know that it's based on my name, but Shinrin has been in plan as Crono's son for nearly 6 years), now at this time this guy and this young girl was visiting them from the future about some sort of wierd happenings in the year 1987, the girl is the same age as Shinrin. Suddenly guards come in and announce that Porre is attacking the kingdom. the guy tell Crono they must leave now and hands the girl, Elizabeth to Marle, Crono tells Marle to think of a plan to retake the kingdom and then opens up a secret passage for her, Shinrin and Elizabeth to go, after they enter the secret passage, the man opens up a portal and they leave. the porre guards break in to find no one and notices that the secret passage is opened so they go in. Now Marle and the kids are being followed, and the guards catch up. Marle fends the off and continues on, and after walking a little bit more, Elizabeth gets her foot gaught on something and marle tries to help, she tell Shinrin to continue onwards and to be careful. Some more guards catch up with Marle and the girl and Marle gets cut in a face by one of the guards. she knocks them back and tells the girl, that she is sorry and wishes there was another way to get her out Marle flees hurting from her wound and finds Shinrin and they flee to Lucca's house where everyone is and they take refuge in a shelter near by. So, now it focuses on Crono and the Guy and there at a wierd and unusual place, Crono has a familar wind go through him like he did when he fought lavos. The guy tells him about the events of serge even though they was supposed to been erased from everyones minds.... so these two set off in the new dungeon and you're left to wonder what happened. Then maybe show a scene about Kid, Shinrin and the radical dreamers.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Chrono'99 on November 20, 2006, 05:41:34 pm
Just a note: I'm not sure if it's something we have to care about or not but, the mysterious guy who steals the Masamune in the PSX cutscene... he looks a bit like King Zeal.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: nightmare975 on November 20, 2006, 08:28:08 pm
Just a note: I'm not sure if it's something we have to care about or not but, the mysterious guy who steals the Masamune in the PSX cutscene... he looks a bit like King Zeal.

What if King Zeal does this before the party arrives in the DBT? He could hint that he has still won or something after he is defeated.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Chrono'99 on November 21, 2006, 09:30:40 am
Hey, I think that's a nice idea. This could also be the reason why the central regime is still created without the Vanguard: it's created by Porre instead. Belthasar would know about the Fall of Guardia, but would "omit" to mention it to the party because he knows the central regime will be necessary to orchestrate the final defeat of the Time Devourer (Project Kid). In a New Game+ ending, we could show Belthasar writing his confession and explicitely mention this event, for players who would have not guessed the truth in their first playthrough.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: ZeaLitY on November 21, 2006, 10:34:00 am
Would this have any ramafications for our Vanguard scenario? It sounds good to me. It'd give King Zeal some taunting power and we could choose how much he decides to reveal the first time around. Sorry fr not posting; I have a tough last day before my break from school.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Chrono'99 on November 21, 2006, 02:04:05 pm
In the computer that gives information in Chronopolis, we can probably sublty hint at this event by having some mysterious blanks in the history archive (because Belthasar erased the info about 1,005 AD and other related dates).

There could be a problem with... Gaspar, though. He should see everything after his return to the End of Time. Should we have him remain in Chronopolis instead?
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: ZeaLitY on November 21, 2006, 02:19:49 pm
Perhaps he could hang around with Melchior. I'm really apt to create a couple new rooms with the future Blackbird tileset once it's ready, like a conference room or something like that.

If I recall...Gaspar had to retrieve the Chrono Break or something in the original, original plot. But other than forge weapons or give advice, Melchior and Gaspar don't do anything else. Perhaps we could work them in on at least one field assignment? It was always cool in James Bond when Q went out into the field. Similarly, it was cool to have Belthasar right there in Viper Manor (if only we could ask him questions!). Perhaps it could be part of a sidequest. I've still got one more class to go before I have free time, so any ideas are welcome.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Daniel Krispin on November 23, 2006, 05:22:44 pm
I guess this has nothing to do with 'ending', but it would be kind of neat to see Gaspar show his power. The guy shouldn't be named the Guru of Time for nothing. All his actions to this point have been reserved and with a long reach - and though his times had great importance, they don't figure nearly so prominently as Melchior's (in the way of the Red Knife) or Belthesar's (his involvment in events needn't even be mentioned, they are so numerous.) The thing is, personally, I think it would be kind of neat to see him arrive on the scene, look to the left and right, and cause a sort of temporal freeze in the enemies - halt everyone where they are. Do you think that would be too over the top, though?
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: nightmare975 on November 23, 2006, 05:52:05 pm
I still think that he should be the one to help them out of the DBT at the end.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: ZeaLitY on November 25, 2006, 10:42:24 pm
Okay, I'll add him there.

~~Preserving something from the other thread~~

I forgot about the Chronopolis thing. We can resolve it in the ending. The Chronopolis chief notes that Belthasar appeared out of "nowhere" with the Time Research Lab. Perhaps we can justify it by Belthasar noting at the end that he's going to renovate Chronopolis for his ultimate plan, and that he'll need the Central Regime's vast resources for a grand experiment he's going to conduct. He's going to reveal his "private lab" after dismantling certain aspects to the Central Regime, which will jump on the opportunity and move things to the sea of El Nido. This will also enable Belthasar to use the Frozen Flame.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Daniel Krispin on November 29, 2006, 04:19:52 am
I still think that he should be the one to help them out of the DBT at the end.

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of a hopeless battle, and he steps in out of nowhere, and freezes everything. Sort of like in the movie X-Men 2 when the professor gets everyone to stop near the beginning of the movie.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Chrono'99 on March 25, 2009, 08:47:32 pm
Quote from: CE Wiki
#  ? - SCENE: King Zeal is lying down in an undisclosed location. Magus enters and they share dialogue. Magus notes that King Zeal will tell him all the secrets of the dark arts to help him find Schala. King Zeal laughs.
#  ? - SCENE: If you completed all the sidequests, the bonus scene appears.

What should we do about these? I was about to tackle the coding of the Magus/King Zeal cutscene, but I realized we don't have dialogues for it (or are they somewhere?). We can definitely code these bonus cutscenes up, but I think we may agree that if I or Jsondag write the dialogues, instead of Zeality, the result might not be perfect (at least compared to the 1005 AD cutscenes that come just before them).
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Vehek on March 25, 2009, 08:54:14 pm
It's in the bug submission form. (Bug #1252)
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Agent 12 on March 25, 2009, 09:08:47 pm
Quote
I think we may agree that if I or Jsondag write the dialogues, instead of Zeality, the result might not be perfect

haha....yea....

Zeality took pictures of some of the dialogue I wrote just for laughs. albeit I knew it wasn't going into the final product.

You'll be able to close bugs 1252, 1248 and 1249  and maybe 1250 if you want?( Sweet :) )  You can check belth's little sidequest speech to see the bits that can be used to see if  sidequests were completed, and you can check bits in the end of time to see if the developers ending is done.

It'll be nice when that table is empty.


--JP

P.S. Since you and vehek are both checking what NPC's / Dialogue do you want for your appearance in game?  Vehek I think you may have PM'd me awhile ago about this sorry for not getting back to you...

Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Chrono'99 on March 25, 2009, 09:44:53 pm
Alright, this takes care of the Magus cutscene.

Concerning the bonus scene, I don't know if we're thinking of the same thing. Actually I...think I might have made a big mistake by forgetting to post the content of some PMs sooner. There's some huge information and it's not on the wiki or the forum so we're probably not all aware of it (sorry :/ ).

I realized today that CE doesn't use a lot of Key Items. Jsondag2 e-mailed me and we discussed how the party would attack the Frozen Flame in the Ocean Palace to lure King Zeal out, and I proposed Belthasar give the party a "Annihilation Agitator", which will stimulate the Frozen Flame with Annihilation energy. This will react with the Flame's Anti-annihilation energy, causing high levels of energy to attract King Zeal. The party would keep the Agitator afterwards, and Belthasar would tell the party to use it at the top of the Spire of Telos to gain access to the DBT.

But then I remembered that every game in the Chrono series has a Time Egg. So I was thinking...

  • Belthasar gives the party a Time Egg to help open a hole to the DBT in the Spire of Telos.

If you didn't do all the sidequests:

  • The party uses the Time Egg to access the DBT at Telos.

If you did all the sidequests:

  • Crono, who still has the Entity-meld, feels all the dreams of the people he's helped. He feels enough power to use the Entity's latent temporal energies to open the Gate to the DBT.
  • The party keep the Time Egg. At the end of the final battle (or perhaps for some other use), the party use the Time Egg on the Time Devourer (or King Zeal, Schala...anyone there).
  • This unlocks a special scene in the ending.

Still, I don't know what the Time Egg could be used for, or what the scene could be. Maybe the Time Egg could be used to skip a boss battle by violently removing an enemy...or perhaps it could be used to save a person at the DBT by Gating them to the safe End of Time. We already have the scene that displays always, with Magus telling King Zeal to teach him temporal magic. Does that mean this Magus scene takes place before Magus visits the Dream Devourer?

Anyway, this special scene...I imagine it could be a period after Chrono Trigger, after Crimson Echoes, and after Chrono Cross. I have no plans right now for a next project, but it still might be fun to hint that more adventures take place. It could be a simple meeting between characters, and someone mentions the "Chrono Break"...



Sorry for the late answer...I was a bit busy with midterms. The Annihilation Agitator idea is good. As for the Time Egg, I've been thinking maybe it could be used by Crono and Marle to leave for other dimensions:

  • Just before the final battle, perhaps we can have King Zeal taunt the Dream/Time Devourer, with magic energy or something. The Devourer would react by randomly opening destructive wormholes from Telos/DBT to various other dimensions. This is kind of reminiscent of the Dimensional Vortices of CTDS, except here the wormholes are destructive; they rip and absorb what they touch and make a few dimensional spaces collapse. The party express their shock at the destruction in these places, since they were unrelated to their conflict.
  • The final battle and first part of the ending play as usual. After the monarchy is abolished in Guardia, a short extra cutscene shows Crono and Marle reflecting somewhere (Leene Square?), saying that most of their ties with Guardia have been severed now that people and history have decided to go on without them. The outcome of the dialogue changes depending on whether you did all the sidequests:

If you didn't do all the sidequests

  • They say that now they'll be able to live as normal people and that it's not that bad. They'll remain in Guardia to try to make things better and help rebuild Truce. They mention Lucca, who will also help with the orphans.
  • The credits + the Magus and Belthasar cutscenes play, and that's it.

If you did all the sidequests

  • Instead of remaining in Guardia, Crono and Marle decide to use the unused Time Egg to explore the dimensions affected by the Devourer, to see the extent of the destruction, to heal the people that were hurt and to help them rebuild their homes. Crono mentions that he said goodbye to his Mom and that she's okay with him leaving. Crono and Marle note that with Lucca helping to rebuild Truce and helping the orphans, Guardia will remain in good hands.
  • So, they use the Time Egg at the Telepod exhibit to return to the Spire of Telos and reach the wormholes.
  • The credits + the Magus and Belthasar cutscenes play.
  • Then another cutscene is shown, with Gaspar, Crono and Marle discussing (in the Dreamtime?). Gaspar asks them how well they've been doing with the other dimensions, if they met Schala now that she'd been freed, and if they found the Chrono Break yet. At the end of the chat, Crono and Marle say their goodbye and leave, and Gaspar literally vanish. The dialogue would be more on the lighthearted side than overly mysterious or very important storywise (like maybe have Marle notes that Schala looks nice with blonde hair, etc.). However, one extra plot point we might hint at is Gaspar's new status: at that point in Chrono history, he may have finally merged with the Entity (hence how he knows so much, and how he vanished).

So, that's an idea. It gives more closure to several points, including Crono and Marle. Instead of the passive feeling of having them remain in a time that doesn't need them, we have a more dynamic feeling and we know they're not that sad of leaving (think Sam Beckett in the last episode of Quantum Leap). This also draws a subtle parallel with the actual state of the Chrono series: a large part of the gaming world has moved on, but the series still lives on in some form.

The downside in that ending is that we jump around between many separate story arcs (Guardia, Crono/Marle, credits, Magus, Belthasar, and Gaspar/Crono/Marle). CC is a major common link between all these arcs though, and we could allow the player to walk in some of the cutscenes to let them see the ending at their own pace. What do you think?

Sounds good.

So, yeah, I should have posted this somewhere sooner... I kind of forgot that it hadn't been posted.

These cutscenes look huge on this thread but they're not difficult to code, since they rely on dialogues on still screens mostly. I believe this expanded ending would fully round out everything in terms of closure and impact (as it confirms that Project Kid went well), but if Zeality doesn't have the time to write the dialogues, what should we do?

---

EDIT: Well there's an outdated part about Marle not being Queen anymore so this ending either needs revising or it has already been scrapped? In that case, what is the bonus scene?

---

Concerning my cameo, I'll see after I'll do my beta testing playthrough.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Agent 12 on March 25, 2009, 10:54:38 pm
I'll let Zeality comment, I do think we should have an extra scene to reward doing the sidequest though.  Everything looks easy except maybe this:

Quote
Just before the final battle, perhaps we can have King Zeal taunt the Dream/Time Devourer, with magic energy or something. The Devourer would react by randomly opening destructive wormholes from Telos/DBT to various other dimensions. This is kind of reminiscent of the Dimensional Vortices of CTDS, except here the wormholes are destructive; they rip and absorb what they touch and make a few dimensional spaces collapse. The party express their shock at the destruction in these places, since they were unrelated to their conflict.

Mainly because we are out of pallettes already...

Quote
unused Time Egg to explore the dimensions affected by the Devourer, to see the extent of the destruction, to heal the people that were hurt and to help them rebuild their homes

wouldn't they need a time egg each time they go to a new dimension?

Besides those critiques I think it's a pretty valid ending and like you said not to difficult to code.

--JP
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Chrono'99 on March 27, 2009, 03:46:33 am
For the wormhole stuff, perhaps King Zeal can do that between the two battles against him, so there would be only 3 active characters on screen. We can have some sort of ShakeScreen command plus portals opening and closing (like when the party is thrown out of the DBT, but with a different color since they lead to different dimensions instead of North Cape). The destruction would be shown with very short clips of a few locations that would use recycled maps with different NPCs in them (to show that they're different dimensions). Then back to the DBT, the portals would leave "closed portal" sprites behind them (to show that they're accessible), though we'll drift them out of the screen for the final battle obviously.

These portals would be like the Dimension Vortex portals of CTDS, except you're opening them from the DBT instead of the outside world. They need a Time Egg only to access the DBT from this dimension, since King Zeal's death kind of shut the DBT here while the other portals in the DBT still exist. We can probably color these gates purple with MemCopy. In any case, this ending is meant to account for their absence in CC and basically "end" Crono and Marle's saga as far as we're concerned; they "no longer exist in this timeline" as the children ghosts say, so if it's difficult for them to return it's kind of the point. They're not dead, but they kind of are in a way (but it's not sad!). In future fanprojects like AE:HU or CC:DBT they'd really be returning for instance.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Agent 12 on March 27, 2009, 04:21:04 am
:)

I see you've thought about this haha. Do you want to drive it or you want me to take a crack at it?  I'm somewhat out of things to do and I'd still like you chrono99ify chapter 14, do a beta run and you'll probably be tasked with doing the tileset transfer for King Zeal.


--JP
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Chrono'99 on March 27, 2009, 03:09:28 pm
Well I might as well do it since I polished the same locations and events in the latest patch and so it's easy to go through it again adding the necessary stuff.

However, I'll post a list of endings in the wiki in a few minutes. I haven't considered the possible endings post-Chapter 13/15 yet, but there's currently a little less than 10 endings you could implement (don't hesitate to do things slightly differently than in the description if you wish). And don't worry, they're all very short and we have a lot of unused location slots to make coding easier :)

EDIT: Done: http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/CE/Endings.html

EDIT: Just noting that since they're NG+ endings (= little treats), we don't have to worry that much about the quality of the dialogues there, unlike in the main ending.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Agent 12 on March 27, 2009, 08:43:28 pm
Those look great! It'll be nice to give people a chance to see a bit of Sorin's past! OK, you got that last part of the ending, chapter 14, and a quick beta test.  I'll work on the endings (you'll probably want to give me feedback but none of them sounded too complicated) and any bugs that pop up.

oh man were close.

--JP
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Chrono'99 on March 29, 2009, 11:40:45 am
I'm having trouble implementing the expanded ending... Crono and Marle's self-imposed exile relies on the fact that they're not monarchs anymore, they have no more responsabilities in the Present and Marle's father has just died. However, in the current ending they're still monarchs, still have responsabilities and Marle doesn't seem to feel sorrow. To allow for the expanded scenes, I think we need to merge the current ending with the former one in which the Truce people ended the monarchy. We need to adapt it. It would be something like this:


If you didn't do all the sidequests:


If you did all the sidequests


And finally, I don't know if I'm asking for too much, but I propose that only Magus is aware of the Dream Devourer still being alive after the death of King Zeal. I replayed the ending and it's strange that every character knows that it's not over, when we know that none of them will be involved in Chrono Cross apart from Lucca, Robo and Magus. It takes away from the ending because King Zeal dies but reveals that the DD is still alive, so we would expect the story to continue naturally without any interruption. There's no reason the game ends here if everyone in the story knows it's not over (the Entity closes the Gates but the Neo-Epoch is still there for time traveling). So, I believe King Zeal shouldn't tell about the DD, and Magus should still see it but keep this knowledge to himself. The Frozen Flame should explode to trick everyone and rematerialize only in the Belthasar/FF cutscene, much to his surprise. This way there's a real closure and the necessity of CC is treated as a cliffhanger rather than unfinished business. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Agent 12 on March 29, 2009, 02:43:05 pm
Everything before the dream devourer is definitely fine ill have to replay the ending myself t comment on the rest. The oart that mainly concerns me is If I remember correctly zeals final speech talking about the dream devourer is pretty awesome. I also kind of like how when they get out there's some lines saying "maybe its not our fight?" but having magus being the only one who knows definitely has some appeal. I'm not back till late today it seems like the devourer stuff is mainly dialogue change?  Well except the flame exploding a this shouldn't block you I guess? Ance its mainly dialogue If zeality is ok with it feel free to do it.

Jp
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: ZeaLitY on March 30, 2009, 03:34:31 am
Yeah, the new ending can be changed to allow the expanded ending. The fact that they all know about it sort of reconciles the mysteriousness of the team's involvement with Chrono Cross, and the fact that the old team apparently visited Lucca's orphanage after 1005 A.D., since there are drawings of Frog, Ayla, Robo, etc. if they know the Dream Devourer is still out there, it's logical that they visited about it, even if Belthasar ultimately told them to sit it out or made preparations for the Crono Marle Lucca ghosts.
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Chrono'99 on April 10, 2009, 06:25:25 pm
Mmh, I just realized almost everybody will miss the expanded ending, possibly even in NG+ playthroughs, because once the Time Egg is used at North Cape it's used once and for all: if curious players use up the Time Egg before doing the sidequests (just to have a peek at the final dungeon, before going back to the overworld), they will basically nullify any chance of getting the expanded ending whether they do all the sidequests or not. Is there any workaround possible?
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Agent 12 on April 10, 2009, 06:57:44 pm
SOrry for my ignorance but what is the criteria for the expanded ending?  I thought it was just finishing all the sidequests? Or wait....was it something about beating all the sidequests before going into the Mashup?

Hm.....if that's the case we could put a warning something along the lines of "We may never be able to come back, if there's anything we need to do in here we better do it first!".   I think our target audience (people playing a rom hack of a 10+ year old Snes game) would be hard core enough to either go do all the sq first or atleast realize they should go back there during a new game+ and do all the sidequests first.


--JP
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Chrono'99 on April 11, 2009, 02:58:31 pm
To get the expanded ending, the player has to complete all the sidequests before using the Time Egg at North Cape.  If you complete all the sidequests but don't have the Time Egg left, it will make the expanded ending impossible (since the Egg is supposed to be used in that expanded cutscene).

I don't know if many people would think about saving that Time Egg... The location of Dalton's dungeon and that of Singing Mountain were stated very clearly in the demo but many people didn't get it. Besides, once you use the Egg you can actually go back to the overworld, so the warning may seem non-warranted or something.

Mmh, need to think about a solution...
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Agent 12 on April 11, 2009, 03:50:16 pm
You have CML talking at the end right? I guess you could have Lucca give them another prototype with a warning that it could backfire?  That scene takes place at an undisclosed time right so it could have been like 3 years later?

--JP
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Agent 12 on April 11, 2009, 05:37:31 pm
Double Post but 99 I also wanted to check that you are OK with what I mentioned in the ROM thread about not being able to insert the Dalton It's good to be King ending ( the portal isn't accessible at this point).

--JP
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Chrono'99 on April 12, 2009, 06:18:48 am
Yeah, no problem. Making the portal accessible would kind of break the flow in that part of the game.


The bonus scene takes place right after returning to 1005 since Crono says "It's the first chance we've really had to sit down and talk". I guess what I'll do is this:

* At North Cape, the textbox asks you if you want to use the Time Egg or a different item.
* If you use the Time Egg, there's a warning, like "Are you sure? It's the last Time Egg we'll have in a while" or something.
* The other item you can use is the Annihilation Energy Agitator. It isn't powerful enough to open the distortion, but the fact that you can try to use it might make the player realize something is going on.
* If you complete all the sidequests, Belthasar will note that your Annihilation Energy Agitator has absorbed lots of...annihilation energy, recently, and that it can actually open the DBT distortion now. If you already used the Time Egg, he will add "You could have kept the Time Egg for a later use, ohoho!" or something. The characters could even repeat that sentence at North Cape, to make it really clear that the player could have kept the Time Egg.

Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Agent 12 on April 12, 2009, 07:16:51 am
Sounds good, I agree that our current implementation is pretty harsh.  However, can we add a warning for using the Agitator as well.  If we only have a warning for the time egg it's prett obvious that the "correct choice" is to use the agitator. Also I'm assuming that the expanded ending is based off completing the sidequest rather than JUST using the agitator instead of the time egg.


--JP
Title: Re: Endings
Post by: Chrono'99 on April 12, 2009, 07:59:11 am
Yeah, the expanded ending requires that you keep the Time Egg, which means that you have to enter the DBT through a different mean than breaking that Time Egg. The only solution I found is that by completing all sidequests you somehow "charge" the Agitator with energy, which can then be used to enter the DBT.

Basically...

* Don't do all the sidequests, use the Time Egg = You get the regular ending.
* Don't do all the sidequests, use the Agitator = The Agitator isn't powerful enough to open the DBT; you can't progress this way.

* Do all the sidequests, but you had already used the Time Egg = The Agitator is powerful enough to open the DBT, but you get the regular ending anyway since you don't have a Time Egg left.

* Do all the sidequests, but use the Time Egg (despite Belthasar telling you that you can use the Agitator now) = You get the regular ending.
* Do all the sidequests, use the Agitator = The Agitator works and you get the expanded ending.

The scheme is a bit complicated but with proper warnings/hints it should be okay.