Chrono Compendium
Marbule Gallery - Completed Fan Creations => Crimson Echoes => Topic started by: Agent 12 on May 31, 2006, 01:53:57 am
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Well CL if ya have some time we have a king Zeal that could really use a kick ass enemy AI. I'm assuming you can just replace Queen Zeal's AI with whatever you fancy.
--jp
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Ok, I can do this sometime this weekend. Rather than just string together any old (new) AI, I wouldn't mind some suggestions. Of course I'm going to work with what I know, and will probably change around the suggestions I get, I'd like a basic outline of what spells he casts, a counter attack (magic or physical) etc... I'm unsure as to what spells would be appropriate at the point in the game he appears in-battle, so the spells will need to be decided by you guys, with perhaps a sprinkling of Chickenlump randomness tossed in (everything is better when multiple ideas are put into place).
I see more advanced hacking is taking place also, so I hope all the free and unused space inside the ROM is being documented and updated for imported songs and sprites and such (There is probably a list somewhere under my nose, wouldn't surprise me) so nothing gets overwritten. I'll be using freespace for the new AI, and I'll overwrite Zeal's old AI with a lesser being, whoever new gets put into the game at a later date. I'd like King Zeal's AI to not be restricted by the space given to Queen Zeal's old slot.
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I may have a few ideas for an attack pattern or whatever he uses, but I would like to know: are you even supposed to win vs him at the ocean's palace? I mean something like a Bonus Item for beating him would be cool, and after that Magus could still freeze him. So not making him impossible(maybe throw in some Elemental vests or Mails/Mermaid & Rainbow Helm and let him use water and lightning?) would be interesting, and because I bet you will face him later on again, then just give him more strengh. Here my ideas:
- How about Crying Heavens? I love that attack, and maybe(because of sucking lavos' energy and stuff) he got the ability to use it.
- No hallation please, or life shaver or whatever, because they are just so stupid in a 1on1, and I would also cut his fireballs, because it's to much Queen Zeal like.
- Do spell like magic wall etc work for enemys? I mean he could open with Magic Wall(because he seems to know Magus' magic power), so Magus' would use his Iscariot most of the time.
- His red arm thingies may be used as a weapon(maybe they can be seen as Dreamstone-arm-blades or something)
- A few Water/lightning attacks if the Elemental Mail stuff is added(so you don#t need to "vast" a precious turn by healing) like...well...he is Magus' father isn't he? So Ice 2, Fire 2 and Lightning 2 like his son(maybe Magus' learnd them from him?)
Just a few thoughts, the stuff in "()" is stuff that should make it fit into the story or situation(I don't know is it's all right, thou)
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Good to see ya CL. So far all I know for sure is that JLukas put the Sun Stone in unused space. Vargose is also talking about using unused space for music. I'll get to work on gathering this data and making a sticky.
King Zeal's first fight (the one in demo 2) is not supposed to be beaten and he's going to be the final boss as well as being a boss that you can beat early to get a secret ending (think lavos fight in Zeal). So he's gotta be tough.
I would like to see him be mostly magic, I mean he is from Zeal so he'd probably be good at it. Maybe all magic except for a physical counter attack (if your close???).
Maybe Flare/Telekinesis/HP breakdown/and Rust Tyrano's fire breath thing (this one might sound stupid but if you see chrono 99's sprite in action I think it might actually look good
crap I gotta go but I will expand on this post tonight.
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Ok then, the 2nd Magus fight style may be fitting:
1st Phase using mostly "normal"(weak) magic attacks (Magus here used his Scyte)
2nd Phase then using magic as counterattack and rapidly other magic attacks(in the 2nd Magus fight he could easiely tripple hit you, 1st from counter and 2 before it's your turn again) AND a speed up for him(Magus Attack speed was doubled or even tripled in his 2nd Phase)
This would fit for the 1on1, for the "last fight", I don't know, I'm more the fighting guy...
Maybe let people buy Barrier somewhere to have a slight chance?
Bye Magus :lee:
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For the unwinnable fights, perhaps they could be winnable at high levels (like new game +). So, in normal circumstances, you would lose because of the enemy's sheer power, but in a new game + situation, defeating that enemy would give you a special item only for users of new game +, as a bonus for playing through again. This kind of thing would probably be best gone through and done towards the end of development for Crimson Echoes, but it's a neat idea to throw around.
I'm really impressed by the work done in my absense(sp?), especially the overworld event for taking the fairy to medina. Very nice work there, flawlessly executed. Some really great talent has showed up recently, I'd like to have every talented person we can get involved in one way or another. It all adds up.
Great ideas for the AI, I'm going to take all suggestions, and work them in, or around whatever limitations I currently have with AI (I still can't do everything, but nobody will notice).
I don't remember Crying Heavens, but I will try to find it (a list of techs available through AI would be nice, just one byte change will change an attack, perhaps members with nothing to do could change that byte 255 times, and write down what they think the attack is? It would be of IMMENSE help to me in future AI hacking). Dreamless also has my fancy, because of the whole theme of dreams, and King Zeal using Dreamless (someone also detailed how cool Dreamless was compared to the story as a whole, though I forgot who :( ).
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I don't know if it would work, but since he IS Magus's father, maybe give him Dark Matter or something to show off his evil powers ¬.¬ Idk if the graphics would show up or not but its worth a shot. You could also have a mixture like that fireball spell zeal has, life shaver, dark matter, etc..
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we have gotten ALOT of talent here I'm really proud of everyone.
I agree with having him be beatable (I'm toying with a "brute force ending that involves the coliseum haha)
--jp
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XD. I can't wait to see King Zeal in action. I'm also thankful you guys braught up enemy AI data, I had completely forgotten ALL about that stuff. :shock: I feel so dumb :(
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XD. I can't wait to see King Zeal in action. I'm also thankful you guys braught up enemy AI data, I had completely forgotten ALL about that stuff. :shock: I feel so dumb :(
No need, we all have moments like this (some more than others... *cough ME cough*) ;)
The coliseum will be a huge draw for CE, it's like a mini project in itself, and it's mostly done, aside from whatever extras you put in (over the course of time, with all that's been learned lately (ALOT) could be anything, rivaling any sidequest in recent RPG history even (seriously, RPG's nowadays suck compared to what we are doing). :)
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I relocated the Sun Stone to free space at $1AFD00, so the King Zeal graphics packet could remain at its original offset.
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Lol, I swear we're like the only people online at Compendium right now...But yes, I have more moments then you could ever believe. -sigh- And yes I agree completely with you CL
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I relocated the Sun Stone to free space at $1AFD00, so the King Zeal graphics packet could remain at its original offset.
Thanks! I just got done reading the thread about King Zeal overwriting the Sun Stone, a very easy mistake to make when editing compressed graphics (I'm glad people are experimenting with it though).
We should make a small listing of space we could make use of, like unused graphics and junk data not normally used by the game, or stuff we've replaced. I'm a bit wary of using space at the end of the ROM because of what TF uses, though I remember there is a point in that area that TF probably won't reach.
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Hm, I was going to post more about how to do his AI but honestly who better to make a hard enemy than the heir to the masamune himself? On monday Vargose is going to be giving me a table of songs that he would want to put in as well as songs we could replace. This should give us a better idea on what we have availible to us. Couple quick questions though:
I realize this guy is going to probably be a huge AI so we'll have to use extra space since no other are this big, but if we were to make more custom enemy AI we'd be able to replace other AI...For example I imagine Magus AI is pretty big so we could probably make a boss use that?
Did you notice I bumped an old thread of yours about the adventure of Nu? It had a very very nice looking skin for text boxes, Chrono 99 tried to mimic it but it didn't look nearly as nice as yours (you can see it in latest patch), did you happen to write it down, if not don't waste time trying to replicate it because your skills are much more valuable doing this more advanced stuff
I'm getting even more excited now, I'll see if I can make this last scene and release a beta.
--jp
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I read it just now. All I did there was change the palette for the existing graphics. Just a simple palette change using the very cool snes palette editor by Yousei. All of the palettes for the menu themes are right next to each other.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/Chickenlump/themes.png)
Putting in the offset 3FB210 will bring Snespal to the very begining of the palettes for the menu themes. As you can see, the shades of grey are more than likely for the default grey theme. Snespal is very simple to use, just move the color sliders to change the colors. After changing the first color, hit the up arrow button by the offset to go to the next color. In this example, I just took all the colors except RED to 0 and saved.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/Chickenlump/themes2.png)
Actually, after recreating it for this mini tutorial, it appears that is exactly what I did, this is exactly what I end up with.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/Chickenlump/themes3.png)
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The palettes for the Menu Graphics are also listed in the Geiger's offsets.txt.
They start at 3FB210 (unheadered)
I'm looking at it further right now, but I did manage to make a sort of "Crimson" looking menu theme...kind of...
Hm, we ended up actually editng the offsets there. Should I go back and undo the changes or will following your method just overwrite them anyways?
--jp
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Using Snespal will show your colors that you edited in just fine. It will edit nothing else but those colors, so doing it my way will work just fine. Though, you already edited the colors, changing everything but red to 0 will give you different results than what I showed (since you already edited it). Basically, just do it by eye, go from light red to dark red (or swap them and see what happens, from dark to light). Save and go in game and check. It's easier than doing it by hex.
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Is the last fight supposed to be a 3on1? If yes, using this attack from Lavos' left bit(the one where you lose status protection) combined with hallation and poison(or Geysir?) would be nearly impossible to beat, and if this is to unfair(and it is), maybe as an Idea for Spekkio's last form, if he is in. Or how about slow/all or stop/one? Or this seal techs for one person etc. because I think in the real game, there was just to less status stuff used(or to less chance of being "infected" by it).
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Here's what I came up with.....I can't tell if it's the same as yours. It seems like mine is slightly more bright red instead of dark red.
Status affects is a good idea...it made flea a pretty tough fight.
--jp
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I like yours better, a little brighter than mine, but it's very nifty and fits well. I'll find the palette for the tan background and make it also red (but with a little contrast) so it blends in nicely. Or change the graphics for it. Or delete the graphics for it, so it's all black (it would look very nice, I've disabled the drawing of the tan tiles before, and no tan tiles were drawn just the menus on a black background, with the red menus would look very nice too.
Good job on it.
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2 minute color search has netted me the palette offset I desired.
Menu Tan background tiles palette offset - 3FCBD6
This will look very nice with the red menu. :D
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/Chickenlump/tantiles.png)
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Can ya find the blue box that surrounds the box in the middle too?
--jpj
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Can ya find the blue box that surrounds the box in the middle too?
--jpj
Yes I can. Edit a photo in Paint so I know what you want it to look like.
Enter the offset I showed 1 post back in snespal and remove all the colors to 0 but red, that's how I got that color for the tan tiles. Maybe move each red color down a few notches to make it overall darker... Show a picture of it too, I'd like to see how it mixes in with the red menu's. I have to go to a cookout right now, but I'm already liking how the menus are shaping up. Dark shades of red all around, will look so very sexy.
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I did red and black. It is a tough choice, though I personally have a soft spot for black.
edit: last picture is with the box in the middle changed. I took one of the shades of the red in the background and made that the color.
--jp
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I'll find the color for the middle box, and my vote goes for a pure black background also, it really brings out the glossy shine of the white glossy/glass looking shading applied to the red.
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3FCBD0 is the color to input in snespal to edit the color of the middle box.
A color of 05 or 06 for red, and the rest zero, and hit save.
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3FCBC6 - the white color of the middle box border
3FCBC8 - the darker grey color of the middle box border
For this screenshot I have:
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3FCBC6
31 - Red
14 - Green
14 - Blue
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3FCBC8
13 - Red
0 - Green
0 - Blue
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/Chickenlump/boxyo.png)
So, with all the changes, here is a quick paint-edit of all photos for a rough idea of what it should look like (now that I see it like this though, perhaps the middle could be a bit lighter, I'm sure you will find a nice medium though. ;)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/Chickenlump/q.jpg)
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Here's one I made, I did go a little lighter for the middle box.
--jp
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Hm not to keep you even more busy or anything, but if you could make a patch where you have gato have a specific "before fight begins" attack, and say what offset we have to keep incrementing by 1 maybe we can appeal to Kajar to start plowing through those attacks.
If nothing else it will help us notice more people romhacking.....I remember Chrono 99 and Cyber both doing an awesome job when I appealed for help in documenting Animations.
--jp
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Good idea, I had a GARGANTUAN reply here a second ago, but after reading through it, I thought it would be better as it's own topic in Kajar Labs. I even contributed a mini hex editing tutorial (very mini, it's missing some basics, but everyone that knows hex here in the CE forum can chip in and help out those willing (assuming anyone is) with understanding it. I don't see anything going too wrong, it's just one byte. Heh...
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HAHAHAHAHA to me today!
Thanks to Vehek, I was made aware of a list that was already started by Proto K!
http://cc.herograw.org/Black/Other/Offsets/attacks.txt (http://cc.herograw.org/Black/Other/Offsets/attacks.txt)
Well, I can't say I'm too surprised, I usually embarass myself at least 4 times a day, so that'll teach me. :)
This helps me immensly, perhaps the rest of the values can be filled in anyway, and expanded upon, since it would be good to have a COMPLETE list, even if most of the rest are glitches or unknowns. At the very least, this cuts down on the work by ALOT.
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A short question: Can you make it possible to change them ingame, like the different windows you can chose in the options of CT? Like maybe one red, one blue or black etc.. Would be cool.
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A short question: Can you make it possible to change them ingame, like the different windows you can chose in the options of CT? Like maybe one red, one blue or black etc.. Would be cool.
You mean change each window to be a different graphic theme? If that's what you mean, it probably wouldn't be worth the effort to do so (serious recoding of the window drawing routines O_o ).
If you mean something else, I'm sorry and I'd need you to elaborate, or give a good example of it.
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I'm able to add in every one of your guys' spell requests for King Zeal. I can add in a textbox for each spell, but I would need the string number for them. Or you guys can give the spells some new names in TF. Heck, after I do this AI, I could even find the palette for some tech graphics and change the colors of them using snespal, so the tech of your choice has it's own new color and name.
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OK, Great job on the King Zeal sprite! If I have him do a physical attack, it will be like Queen Zeal's kissing attack, I'm not sure how to change each enemie's physical attack yet (possibly an unknown in Chrono Tweaker or Blitzkrieg's editor).
I'm still working on the AI, I started out good, and learned that the pointers only go so far, so I had to find some free space nearby.
I hereby claim CFC74 for King Zeal's AI data.
His data will be at CFC74
His AI pointer is at 0C8B52 - changed from FA 93 (Zeal's original AI, still there for later use) to 74 FC
I posted this here so I can come back and fix things if something goes awry (I doubt it, nyuck nyuck nyuck), and so others can see the script isolated in the ROM and maybe tweak it later on down the road if they so wish. And so everyone knows what is being changed for the list of changes.
I think once we release CE, we should release the list of changes too, the list would contain every memory value and ROM address change. Once they are done playing our modification, they can look in this huge log of changes, and see what was done where, and how it was done, encouraging them to start one themselves. TF edits don't need to be in the log or anything, since they can open it up in TF and see what's going on, but memory addresses and tricks (like scroll mask manipulation) can be written down for them. Another thought to toss around, something to do after we are pretty close to complete.
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You're definately right. I'll be adding a nice new section to the change log to take account for all the unused space were using now. All the memory addresses I've used should be documented in there too. I was planning to release the change log as well as the CrimsonEchoes project folder TF uses....I'm guessing that will let them see the location name changes I've made.
--jp
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You're definately right. I'll be adding a nice new section to the change log to take account for all the unused space were using now. All the memory addresses I've used should be documented in there too. I was planning to release the change log as well as the CrimsonEchoes project folder TF uses....I'm guessing that will let them see the location name changes I've made.
--jp
I forgot about that project folder that lets them see the location names and such, excellent idea. This project is shaping up very profesionally. This will be a romhack with extra reading material, kind of like The History of CE and/or the Making of CE extra on a DVD. :) I pretty much have the AI done now, but the ROM is corrupted from me.... corrupting it. :D
I'm pretty sure you've made changes since last night, so I'll have you up a new patch real quick, and modify that and upload my changes right after. If you don't mind of course. (*blush blush*) Now that I'm done experimenting with the pointers and free space and his AI, I can just copy and paste the new data in fairly easily.
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Ugh, apologies....
I had also corrupted the rom haha and thought I could put a new patch up before anyone noticed (the elevator in Chronopolis was dead)
--jp
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No problem, I'll use the patch I have, and that and the menu's can be redone after.
:)
AI Data - 58 bytes total
00 00 00 00 FE 02 98 01 00 00 00 02 1D 01 00 00 00 02 45 01 00 00 00 02 37 01 00 00 00 02 98
01 00 00 00 02 69 01 00 00 00 02 EA 01 00 00 00 FE FF 1F 03 00 00 FE 02 7E FE FF
Broken down so it makes sense (you can see the pattern)
00 00 00 00 FE - AI Header (needs to be here, can do other things, but I have it blank for now)
02 98 01 00 00 00 - Magic attack - Crying Heavens (Lightning, used by Lavos)
02 1D 01 00 00 00 - Magic attack - Telekinetic attack (Azala?)
02 45 01 00 00 00 - Magic attack - Crimson Rain (HP Down, one)
02 37 01 00 00 00 - Magic attack - Black Tyrano's flame breath
02 98 01 00 00 00 - Magic attack - Crying Heavens (Lightning, used by Lavos)
02 69 01 00 00 00 - Magic attack - Magic Wall?
02 EA 01 00 00 00 FE FF - Magic attack - Unused(?) rock drop attack/end of first wave
1F 03 00 00 FE 02 7E FE FF -Conditional - If hit with physical attack, CURE SELF (mwa ha ha)
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Let me know how he performs (he destroyed me, he took my soul out through my nose, and burned it before my very eyes.... and THEN he got mean with me... :shock: Yeah, he's just that bad of a dood.... >_> )
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oo Can't wait till I get home to try him. It sounds awesome.
So does he do it in that order and than repeat? Hm......I wish there was an ultimate Ice attack so that we could have lighting (heaven), fire (rust tyrano) and ice. Sounds like were going to have a pretty damn awesome boss.
To clarify, we download the latest CE patch from the "check for latest rom" thread right? That means we shouldn't have to redo the menu's (yay).
--jp
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Correct, the latest patch you posted, then my patch. If that fails, I'll send you the ROM I have, but it should work as expected.
As far as I know it should repeat, and I can always add in an ice attack, just change one of the attack bytes to whatever is listed at this address:
http://cc.herograw.org/Black/Other/Offsets/attacks.txt (http://cc.herograw.org/Black/Other/Offsets/attacks.txt)
and I'll add it in the spot you want it. I can also add in QUITE A FEW more attacks, depending on how long this battle is supposed to last, so it would seem like he never uses the same spell twice, for a long drawn out diverse battle. If not, we can always do that with later bosses, or a hidden optional boss (like in the Final Fantasy series, totally optional, hidden, harder than the final boss, get good stuff for completing this optional quest type thing).
The last 00 in the spell scripts (the ones that start with 02) is the message box string for the spell. They are all empty, so no box is brought up, but I added them in in case you wanted King Zeal to say something or pronounce the spells, new or old, before he casts them.
This is a completely made from scratch AI script, no copy and paste from any other enemy, so for anyone else reading this that can try this out, let me know of any suggestions, or errors. Any balancing of the enemy can be done with a stat modifying program to help balance him out strenght wise, or speed wise for the speed of his casting, spell strength, etc...
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I attempted to encode a video of a battle with him. I will certainly tweak his AI upon request if you think things don't flow just right. It's a 7 MB video, encoded from snes9x, don't worry if it doesn't work, you probably need a codec for it (if you don't already have it), so this is frivolous really. :)
http://chickenlump.googlepages.com/ZealIsABadMan.avi (http://chickenlump.googlepages.com/ZealIsABadMan.avi)
Also, use this patch instead (delete the other one). I think I messed it up, so this one should be OK. It's early. ;)
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Before I say anything final I better try him out but iIf 5A, looks like an ice attack we may replace one of the rain from heavens with that, so that he has all the elements.
I was thinking that maybe the Coliseum Hard difficulty might be able to have ....super enemies.. Like the first fight willl be a super imp, second fight super gargoyle etc. And we can give them the best of their species attacks. So much advancement is happening now, it's really exciting.
--jp
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Read my last post (if you missed it) for a better patch. I think I messed the last one up. I'm going to delete it right now so it doesn't spread too far.
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I'm gonna try him soon, gotto so schoolstuff first(we aren't finished yet, still 4 more weeks to go...)
Sry that I wans't that specific, I just meant different colour like in this menue(i hope you didn't mean these once)*see pic*
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Here my .srm for testing the fight vs Zeal, just get the .srm file in the packet and rename it, save your old one, and have fun.
1st save is before the 2nd fight vs Zeal
2nd save is before the 1st fight against Zeal
3rd save is in front of Crono's House(for a short way to the debug room)
If another rom comes out, you can use this .srm and use NG+.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Which attacks would you guys like to see swapped out with other attacks? I did like the idea of Zeal using all of the elements, which would mean I would have to give him MORE spells, including some shadow magic, but since he is the king of Zeal, the magic kingdom, he probably should have quite the arsenal of spells...
One Ice, one shadow, replace the magic wall spell (or fix it, I probably just set the targetting incorrectly on that one, I'll have a look at how that spell is written in Magus' AI list...).
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I think the "blue circle" might be a good ice.....but I need to see it. As for shadow obvious choice is dark matter considering his son. Could Magic wall be a magic counter? And is adding a status affect a bit that you can change or is it built into the attack itself. I would like to see him cause some form of a status effect even if it's just poison.
--jp
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I think the "blue circle" might be a good ice.....but I need to see it. As for shadow obvious choice is dark matter considering his son. Could Magic wall be a magic counter? And is adding a status affect a bit that you can change or is it built into the attack itself. I would like to see him cause some form of a status effect even if it's just poison.
--jp
I know that you can cause just about any status effect by physical attack in Chrono Tweaker. By poison, do you mean the 'HP Leak' effect? I know the prerelease had a proper poison status effect, but all I remember from CT final is the HP leak. :/
Magic counter's I could probably fumble with here shortly. I know there are counters for the individual (probably flag based) magic types, shadow, lighting, fire, ice, etc... I'm not sure about an all encompassing magic counter attack. I'm not even sure if my physical attack counter is working correctly (my tests were foiled by Zeal snuffing me out before I could get to it, despite my infinite HP codes... heh... >_> <_< )
Blue Circle is just a blue ring that expands to the radius shown in the attatched picture (not all that big, it makes a noise, the screen tints blue, and that's about it)
CFC7A - Zeal's first attack. Change to any value on the list to change his first attack to anything on the attacks list, if you wish to peruse what's available. To be edited in a Hex Editor (like XVI32). I'll look for a suitable 'newish' ice attack. Use the save game above to go directly to the battle (it was extrememly helpful). :) Thanks CyberSarkany, it's very useful!
[attachment deleted by admin]
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There was this Water/Ice attack Queen Zeal used in her 2nd Form, "Hexagon Mist"(looking like this Star of David) or something, I think that's the ultimate water attack. I don't know what attacks all could be used, gotto thnk about it...
No problem(about the savegame), trying to help is my job.
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Hm, so much I wanna ask of you CL...
Would you be able to look into making Cyrus Ghost not "auto end"?
Also in the "note about Zeal at night" I mentioned what I was going to do to make Zeal's sky black, I don't wanna try it yet because you mentioned it's compressed. What would I have to do differently?
--jp
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Just a side note. Blue Circle is an Tech used by Lavos. He says I think, Freeze/Stop So it might be a Ice Tech?