Chrono Compendium
Enhasa Halls - Chrono Series Analysis => Lavos, the Planet, and other Entities => Topic started by: sssssz on March 01, 2006, 02:07:10 pm
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After you defeat Black Tyrano, Azala mumbles something about the Red Star... S/he/it talks about how it will bring endless suffering to the apes, and how they (which I thought as both Reptites and humans) have no future. It almost sounds like it is Azala who summoned Lavos, or at least anticipated its arrival. How is this possible? Is there a reasonable explanation about Azala's knowledge of Lavos and the consequences?
The only explanation I could come up with myself is that Azala, with Reptite's superior astronomy and stuff, predicted a giant meteor heading to the Earth, and "Future... We have no future" was only meant as moaning of Reptites' demise. Still, Reptite tech does not seem that advanced, so this probably wouldn't work...
If it indeed was Azala who summoned Lavos, the Red Star being a warp gate from that thread (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=481) might work... Though, how and where the hell did Azala achieve enough power to summon a world-destroying creature from across the universe?
Help?
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I think the general consensus is that Lavos was not summoned, merely predicted. And, truly, I think the Reptite technology was easily advanced enough to perform such a feat. What's their technology level, anyway? Enough to build a fortress, that's for certain. Crossing that with our own history yields... well, at least a mid-second millennium BC, I'd guess. About the same level of achievement as the old Babylonians. Now, the Babylonians were master star-watchers and astologers, and were able to predict cosmic events with great accuracy. There is a story that a Greek sage, Thales of Miletus, predicted an eclipse would occur during a battle between the Ionians and the Persians... but, in fact, it was the Persians who had the great astrologers. Likely it was one of their number who performed the feat, and not Thales. The point is, the ancient star-watchers were very, very good at keeping records, and predicting the heavens (there are cuneiform inscriptions with what must be the results of thirty years of star-watching!) They were so influencial, we still use their system for some geometry (the 360 degrees to a circles is the old Babylonian system.) Anyway, the Babylonians were capable of incredibly accurate predictions. I'd wager the Reptites were similar.
There is another simpler explanation, however. New stars, supernovae, and comets were harbiners of sorts in ancient cultures... often ill-omens. A red star would be no different. It might just be the most basic of predictions, based more on religion than on science. A new star appears, that is not good - the heavens have changed! The star is red - the colour of blood, of war, and death. Again, not good. What do you think someone who knows the sky in the ancient world would interpret of such a portent? I think it's just that simple. No scientific prediction. No magical summoning. Just a bad-omen that turned out to be true.
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I think the general consensus is that Lavos was not summoned, merely predicted. And, truly, I think the Reptite technology was easily advanced enough to perform such a feat. What's their technology level, anyway? Enough to build a fortress, that's for certain. Crossing that with our own history yields... well, at least a mid-second millennium BC, I'd guess. About the same level of achievement as the old Babylonians. Now, the Babylonians were master star-watchers and astologers, and were able to predict cosmic events with great accuracy. There is a story that a Greek sage, Thales of Miletus, predicted an eclipse would occur during a battle between the Ionians and the Persians... but, in fact, it was the Persians who had the great astrologers. Likely it was one of their number who performed the feat, and not Thales. The point is, the ancient star-watchers were very, very good at keeping records, and predicting the heavens (there are cuneiform inscriptions with what must be the results of thirty years of star-watching!) They were so influencial, we still use their system for some geometry (the 360 degrees to a circles is the old Babylonian system.) Anyway, the Babylonians were capable of incredibly accurate predictions. I'd wager the Reptites were similar.
There is another simpler explanation, however. New stars, supernovae, and comets were harbiners of sorts in ancient cultures... often ill-omens. A red star would be no different. It might just be the most basic of predictions, based more on religion than on science. A new star appears, that is not good - the heavens have changed! The star is red - the colour of blood, of war, and death. Again, not good. What do you think someone who knows the sky in the ancient world would interpret of such a portent? I think it's just that simple. No scientific prediction. No magical summoning. Just a bad-omen that turned out to be true.
Just felt like adding my own little note in here. The reptiles were not the only ones to anticipate the coming of Lavos.
Only a few button taps away from those quotes Ayla herself says "Lavos..."
"Ayla's word. La means big, Vos means fire"
Something along those lines. The prehistoric humans may not have been as advanced as the fortress building switch-setting cage-making scaleybutts, but they did in fact see the "Red Star" coming as well. Long enough in fact to revolve a primitive mythological reasoning around it. Their ideas seemed quite similar to its purpose. The humans, being the more primitive of the species at that point, saw the coming of the red star as a dawning of fire and death. The reptiles I believed, being more advanced, thought the red star in a broader sense. Signifying a pre-set destructive purpose to its existence. Two species, two similar explanations of the unknown, one outcome.
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I always assumed that Ayla named it on the spot, after hearing Azala say that Lavos would "scorch the earth"
AZALA: Soon, stones of fire will rain
down.
Flames shall scorch the land.
The burned out plains will slowly
freeze, ushering in a long, cruel ice
age.
Mwa, ha ha...what a treat!
You will wish you went along with us!
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perhaps both the primitives and the Reptites had some sort of previous encounter/connection to Lavos
"Lavos fast. Deep under Earth already."
Ayla can really sense it?
perhaps long ago, Lavos came to this planet and said something along the line of "ok, I'll be back on so and so date, will it be humans or reptite domination when i get back?"
total speculation, probably absolutely wrong, but it was just a thought
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perhaps both the primitives and the Reptites had some sort of previous encounter/connection to Lavos
"Lavos fast. Deep under Earth already."
Ayla can really sense it?
perhaps long ago, Lavos came to this planet and said something along the line of "ok, I'll be back on so and so date, will it be humans or reptite domination when i get back?"
total speculation, probably absolutely wrong, but it was just a thought
Umm.... How would it be soo. Upon Landing, a whole speices died out... and Lavos wasn't energy... Why would he come back after a great long time of travelling in space Oo.
Ayla can't sense Lavos, but she can probably feel the Earth and how its changed since he landed, and can feel that he is probably under very far, or going down very fast if he's burrowing or something.
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like i said . . . just a thought that popped in
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Ayla is premagic, which means she is probably cannot feel magic energy flux but she is a great warrior and has acute physical senses. Maybe she could feel slight tremors in the earth, I doubt she actually could do something like "smell" Lavos.
Lavos simply sensed out for a planet with sophisticated lifeforms. (You know, more advanced then microbacterium, cuz their DNA is pretty pointless to have). Lavos I doubt ever had the intention of having the primates defeating the reptites. He lands, screws over environment, and the side effect is the "weaker" species dies out.
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Lavos had just hit, and there is a huge hole in the ground, that is seemingly endless. Its not a huge jump in logic to say Lavos was under the ground fast looking at that.
As for Reptites summoning Lavos, its crazy. First; Why would they want to do this? Azala even said him/herself it would scourge the surface, and usher in an ice age when it had not even hit yet. So its not like the Reptities didn't know of its effects.
Second; How would they do this? They couldn't.
But it is a rather tricky subject, since before Azala looses, s/he doesn't have much fear or dread of it.
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But it is a rather tricky subject, since before Azala looses, s/he doesn't have much fear or dread of it.
I always got the impression that Azala was happy to die and lose, knowing that if they die our, then the Apes will probably too. What's why she said "You'd wish you'd have gone with us" or something like that.
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I always got the impression that Azala was happy to die and lose, knowing that if they die our, then the Apes will probably too. What's why she said "You'd wish you'd have gone with us" or something like that.
Actually, I think she was happy that she lost, knowing that apes would LIVE. Keep in mind, she said something about "enduring a cruel and harsh ice age", and when she said "you'll wish you had gone with us", she knew we'd be living and suffering through it.
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But it is a rather tricky subject, since before Azala looses, s/he doesn't have much fear or dread of it.
I always got the impression that Azala was happy to die and lose, knowing that if they die our, then the Apes will probably too. What's why she said "You'd wish you'd have gone with us" or something like that.
Azala was happy that the Apes would be forced to suffer through the coming ice age, but I don't think s/he was happy about his/her race being wiped out. Remmber, just minutes before, she was talking about finally wiping out those Apes with her Tyrano, for the "betterment" of her species. Well, that last part was an inferance, but I don't think s/he was of the "If were going down, I'm talking you with me" mentality. Like I said, its a tricky subject sometimes.
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But it is a rather tricky subject, since before Azala looses, s/he doesn't have much fear or dread of it.
I always got the impression that Azala was happy to die and lose, knowing that if they die our, then the Apes will probably too. What's why she said "You'd wish you'd have gone with us" or something like that.
Azala was happy that the Apes would be forced to suffer through the coming ice age, but I don't think s/he was happy about his/her race being wiped out. Remmber, just minutes before, she was talking about finally wiping out those Apes with her Tyrano, for the "betterment" of her species. Well, that last part was an inferance, but I don't think s/he was of the "If were going down, I'm talking you with me" mentality. Like I said, its a tricky subject sometimes.
Azala was more of the, "I will die a nice honorable death, but you, you will be miserable forever, and so will your offspring, so will their offspring, and all who they love." Azala is happy s/he does not have to deal with an ice age, which is probably a pretty crappy way to die for a reptite.
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That makes sense. Too bad there wasn't an age between 1200 and 65 million.
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While Azala and countless Reptites DO die when Lavos hits the Tyran Fortress, there were also Reptites OUTSIDE the fort, meaning that the majority of the Reptites WOULD have to die in the Ice Age. The Reptites would die first, they'd freeze to death. Azala just guessed we'd starve to death. Regardless of Lavos, she was wrong. Just like our anscetors long ago, we survived. Later on Humans mastered magic and lived above the clouds, but to do that they'd need to survive more than 61 million years of NOT living above the clouds, in an ice age, with little food.
You get the point.
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Perhaps the remaining reptites outside the fortress evolved into the Mystics.
This is really farfetched and I have nothing to back it up. But just an idea.
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If any Reptites survived, they would've evolved into Dragonians, not Mystics.
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Not really. With humans surviving, and the Ice Age happening, the environment would have been far different. The evolutionary chain that led to the Dragonians would not have survived, while (granting that the evolution theory is correct) the line that led to the Mystics may have been better adapted to cold, stealth, and the use of non-Element magic, traits that would have been meaningless in the Dragonian timeline.
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True, but there's already some basic Mystics in Ayla's time period anyway.
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Kilwalas and that one Nu are about it, but I'm willing to grant that Kilwalas evolved into Mystics before I'd say Reptites did, because Mystics seem warm-blooded to me (Imps on Mt. Woe) among other things. Plus, they don't seem to have a reptilian mindset. The ones we talked to seemed to close to human to be Reptite-based anyway. The Medina mystics, and the mystics you talk to in the Cathedral seem like normal people with a job to do, rather than the cold, calculating-yet-violent Reptite sort of personality that I've always imagined they'd have (There are only three Reptites with lines in CT, and one of them is Azala, so it really is imagining).