Chrono Compendium
Zenan Plains - Site Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lord J Esq on January 16, 2006, 01:28:32 pm
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I was sure we were working on Martin Luther King, Jr. Day. But when I get there, the parking lot is practically empty and the doors are locked. Ah, well, it just goes to show that believing in something, no matter how fervently, isn’t going to make it true. Now I’m back home with a whole extra free day on my hands, and I decided to make the most of it by starting out with something extremely petty—hence this poll!
I was reading the Compendium before I left for work, and somebody mentioned the “Aerith” Rule. Aeris, as you surely know, is the tragic heroine of Final Fantasy VII, and Aerith is a close facsimile of the pronunciation of her name in the Japanese version of the game.
Nobody likes a pretender to cross their turf, and as a Certified Elitist™ it always boils my potato when people take it upon themselves to be pretentious with no good reason. I’ve boiled many a potato over these fiends who, in the worst Otaku tradition, insist on using Japanese forms like Aerith, Firaga, and Sara for their respective English counterparts Aeris, Fire 3, and Schala—just to name a few.
The problem is that this is complete pedantry. I’m certainly not against learning more about the original Japanese version of these games, or about the Japanese culture itself—I am strongly in favor of both. But this practice of fanatically rejecting the English form of a few select names in particular, without regard to other names—like, say, “Dalton”—or indeed to any other aspects of these games in general, adds nothing to the experience. It is simply bombastic.
You can see that when somebody comes along and asks “WTF is ‘Aerith’?” Then the bombasts will hasten to point out, with much snobbery, that the Japanese pronunciation is Aerith and only an uncouth rapscallion would use the English version.
Yeah. Uncouth rapscallions…or English speakers.
Those of like mind are welcome to add their snarls of disapproval to the fray. Those who disagree are welcome to try and justify the practice in a way that is less unflattering. Those with no opinion can simply move along. Having accomplished my petty feat, I now return to the black fog whence I came.
Oh, but before I go: Today is very much an abused holiday. Racism is still alive and well in this country, and maybe it wouldn’t hurt any of us to think about ways in which we subtly perpetuate this horrid institution. Unlike deeper forms of prejudice, like sexism, racism is an institution that our species is already mature enough to disestablish. We need only build up a powerful civil momentum, and that begins in the mirror.
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I thought her English name had been "retconned" to Aerith in Kingdom Hearts and FFVII:Advent Children?
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Nah, we're just talking about the original game here. This "Aerith" thing has been around since the beginning.
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Well, her Japanese name has always been Aerith (*), and her English name is now officially Aerith... so, her name is Aerith in all cases.
(* although her original last name, Gainsbourg, was changed to the less-Frenchy Gainsborough)
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I like Aeris, if only becuase it's prettier on the eyes (a th in a word is only beautiful to me in some cases; otherwise it looks foreign and bogged down -- restricted and unflowing). It's also Latin, giving it some meaning.
Still, I guess Aerith is the official thing now. But I'll always hold a place for Aeris.
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Well, her Japanese name has always been Aerith (*), and her English name is now officially Aerith... so, her name is Aerith in all cases.
Her English name, however, has not always been Aeris, and you are forgetting seven years where there was no official retconning--if you accept KH and AC as canonical, which is another discussion entirely.
Notwithstanding whatever her name may now officially be, the original intent of this thread stands: Pretenders. You can replace "Aerith" with "Sara" if you so desire.
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Mmh, not that I actually want to argue with you and not that I really care about Aeri... (I don't like the character anyway), but saying that AC isn't canonical to FFVII is like saying CC isn't canonical to the Chrono series (let's forget KH though). Who are more pretenders, those who just use the official names given by Square, or those who want to believe Compilation of FFVII never happened and want to keep on using the names that were in the original North American FFVII?
I think you're doing the same thing as the "original names" purists, except you're taking the former English names instead of the Japanese names.
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Okay, as usual, I bothered to do a little research on the subject.
First, in the Japanese version: They'd originally came up with the name as Aerith, not some kana spelling (likely based off of Erith (meaning "flower") or Earth). However, once translated into kana, it used the su kana at the end (as is used for S and soft Th normally). But when spoken, it's always pronounced like an S (making the pronounciation of the word identical to "heiress").
So, here we come to the problem with retranslating it back into English. On one hand, we could go with the symbolic references in Aerith, or we could match the Japanese pronounciation with Aeris.
Unfortunately, this leaves us with the only sufficient solution being to spell it Aerith, but pronounce it as Aeris. The verdict: Damn Japanese and their inferior spelling system.
Personally, I believe that since her name is always pronounces as Aeris, we should just go ahead and spell it this way to avoid tons of mispronounciations of it (and frankly, doesn't Aeris just sound more beautiful than Aerith?).
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Well... Seeing how the Japanese calls her Aerith, KH calls her Aerith, AC calls her Aerith, and only the game with the line 'You're a Turks, Elana' calls her Aeris, I'd stick with Aerith.
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Aeris.
Now, elitist of many kinds frustrate me. In the arena of Japanese things coming to the west, these elitist frustrate me more than liberal elitist. These Otaku are the type that says all dubed anime sucks, because they hate their native language.
Aeris was a character on Final Fantasy 7. In the American version, they translated her name to be "Aeris". Therefore, in America, her name is AERIS. Simple, right?
I'd be curious to know how they translated her name for the PAL version, so I can say "If your outside of Japan, her name is AERIS."
I think this comes down to these elitist perhaps importing the game, and thus having it be Aerith. So they stick to what they knew when playing their import.
On the subject of Kingdom Hearts, that game does not trump their original game. Unless you want to go around calling Squall "Leon", or other such nonsense.
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Well, the point I'm trying to expose is that there are elitists on both sides. You say that American people who stick to the Japanese names instead of the American names are Japan fanatics because they act as if they hate everything translated, Americanized, "tarnished".
Yet you are youself sticking to the 1,997 American names instead of going with the 2,004-2006 American names. So, are you a fanatic too? You're sticking with Aeris for the same reason as why the Otaku dudes stick to the Japanese names: because you think it's cooler than the official names. That really reminds me of the people who ignore CC because they think it destroyed CT. Whether they like it or not though, CC is the official sequel to CT.
And sure the character's name was Aeris in FFVII, but FFVII isn't just a game, it's part of a series, "Compilation of FFVII", that expands the original FFVII universe and which games/films are official and canonical prequels and sequels (also, obviously KH isn't part of CoFFVII...). Thus everything that is said in the latest game/film/product is what is official, even if it's retcon.
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For the purposes of FF7, its "Aeris". As of now, FF7:Advent children hasn't been released in America. I'm not sure if they are going to dub it or not (I hope they do). If they just sub it, then Aeris stands as the American form of the name.
The original FF7 is the corner-stone of your "Compilation of FFVII". I'd take something from that game over something released later on anyday.
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Some of us have been avoiding the fansub and waiting since September for the US release of Advent Children. I'll maintain a vigil until April. Then it's AHOY MATEYS for me.
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For the English speaker, Aeris>Aerith, though in actuality it really shouldn't matter to anybody how it's pronounced. *Hear that, Gamefaqs?*
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In America, it's Aeris. People who pronounce it Aerith obsessively as if it's somehow "better" are smelly, worthless otaku faggots with no hope of any meaningful existence. When you're in America, SPEAK GOD DAMN ENGLISH!! There are actually symbolic meanings in both of her names; "Aeris" refers to the sky, much like Cloud, while "Aerith" is an anagram of "I Earth", referring to the Lifestream.
I might also remind you that the word "otaku" actually means "fanatic" in Japanese; on the Japanese social ladder, otaku are even lower than they are here, which is saying something. Some anime is good, and some of it is even great, but most of it, like most of any other medium, is simply average.
Advent Children hasn't been officially released in the States yet, and Kingdom Hearts does not trump FFVII in terms of its canonicity. For now, at least, it's Aeris.
As for the spell names, I don't mind using the a/ga form for second and third-level spells, because it's been that way in several American releases, including VIII through X and Tactics.
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Aerith bugs me. I like Aeris better. But frankly I don't care. I'll say it however it's spelt in whatever game I'm playing.
I'm cool with the ra/aga spell names, too. Doesn't bother me. I like it better than Fire 3 or Life 2 anyway. Those are stupid.
...god I love Kingdom Hearts. I don't care if it's canonical, it's so much better than any of the Final Fantasys.
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First, in the Japanese version: They'd originally came up with the name as Aerith, not some kana spelling (likely based off of Erith (meaning "flower") or Earth). However, once translated into kana, it used the su kana at the end (as is used for S and soft Th normally). But when spoken, it's always pronounced like an S (making the pronounciation of the word identical to "heiress").
So, here we come to the problem with retranslating it back into English. On one hand, we could go with the symbolic references in Aerith, or we could match the Japanese pronounciation with Aeris.
Unfortunately, this leaves us with the only sufficient solution being to spell it Aerith, but pronounce it as Aeris. The verdict: Damn Japanese and their inferior spelling system.
Amazing how everyone overlooked this post. If Leebot is correct the answer to the poll is "both". Spelled Aerith, pronounced Aeris.
Me, I call her Aeris simply because I'm used to it. If the US release of Advent Children pronounces her name ‘Aerith‘, and thereby officially retcon the name, then I'll adjust as well. Not before.
Kingdom Hearts doesn’t count. It has its own canon, which is inspired by Final Fantasy and Disney, but not is beholden to the canon of said sources.
The original FF7 is the corner-stone of your "Compilation of FFVII". I'd take something from that game over something released later on anyday.
By that logic, we can ignore Radical Dreamers and Chrono Cross in favor of Chrono Trigger. Or even better, ignore the other five movies and countless Expanded Universe novels in favor of Star Wars: A New Hope. Simply because something is "released later" does not invalidate what it adds, takes away form, or yes, even retcons from the original work. So long as it is dubbed to be canon by the creators of said work (and they don’t get stupid with it), that is good enough for me.
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Aeris actually gives her a better feel as a character and her design. Aerith makes her sound like some retard groupie.
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Aeris totally pwns Aerith
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These Otaku are the type that says all dubed anime sucks, because they hate their native language.
id just like to point out that thats because 95% of all anime that are dubbed whatever company dubbs them usually cannot find or cannot be screwed to find a voice actor whose voice actually fits the character.
after watching animes that come out here with the american voice actors and to have watched the original japanese version most actors are purly shit and people off the street would do just a good a gob voice wise.
while some companys take the time to find good actors (e.g Hellsing where they used english voice actors who most if the actually fitted the character they were instead of a bunch of crap sounding american ones) most of them dont.
nad while unrelated voice wise american dubbing companys also like to change the script because they feel a line may confuse american watchers because it doesn't have to do with somthing from their country instead of the japanese culture refrence where the friggen anime is most likely set.
no offence but if heard so many whiners going on about "oh noes its in a language i dont understand its shit adn it must have crappy voice actors cause i suck so much i cant read subs!!!!!".
i just hate ppl who think anythig sucks because its another language and the ppl who bitch because fans and ppl who know when a voice actor is shit and complain about it and bitch more about them because they like hearing crappy english voice actors.
ive been watching anime since i can remember and after seeing so many i know what the fuck im talking about
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I speak English. How bout you? I'd rather watch something in my own language, than watch something, and have to read at the same time. Diverts your eye's attention from the action to the subtitles. You say that dubbed anime sucks. I can name plenty that don't. Robotech, Berserk, Escaflowne, Cowboy Bebop, Full Metal Alchemist, Inuyasha. I could go on. I only prefer subbed anime in extreme circumstances. Like Naruto. They screwed up dubbing that.
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Reading subtitles takes away from the movies. You cant fully pay attention to whats going on if you have to focus on one part of the screen reading subtitles.
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I speak English. How bout you? I'd rather watch something in my own language, than watch something, and have to read at the same time. Diverts your eye's attention from the action to the subtitles. You say that dubbed anime sucks. I can name plenty that don't. Robotech, Berserk, Escaflowne, Cowboy Bebop, Full Metal Alchemist, Inuyasha. I could go on. I only prefer subbed anime in extreme circumstances. Like Naruto. They screwed up dubbing that.
Inuyasha was okay. But it got annoying with their voiced of how they always shouted "Inuyasha!" or "Kagome!".
FMA... that's a totally other story. It was so shit. Like that quote on equivilant exchange sounds so newbish "in order to gain something, something of equal value must be exchanged". It sounds so much better in the jap version and in the sub.
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I speak English. How bout you? I'd rather watch something in my own language, than watch something, and have to read at the same time. Diverts your eye's attention from the action to the subtitles. You say that dubbed anime sucks. I can name plenty that don't. Robotech, Berserk, Escaflowne, Cowboy Bebop, Full Metal Alchemist, Inuyasha. I could go on. I only prefer subbed anime in extreme circumstances. Like Naruto. They screwed up dubbing that.
um if you watch subbed anime it takes very little time to learn to read the subs while not adverting your eyes.
yes i speak english and while there are a few animes that dont have bad dubbed voices almost all of them do and cowboy bebob as a good dubb lol it has tolerable voice actors but thats it its not good in any way its just not bad either and FMA had very bad voice acting.
plus the fact that the dubbing companys get pissed about what they say in a anime thinking its not sutible for whatever age group they want to show it to they re=write what they say eventually screwing up by cutting out some important point.
id rather watch a anime in japanese with good voice actors and the proper diolouge rather than not spending a day learning to read subs without adverting your eyes which you only ever have to do if you have got a projector.
americans just cant do voice acting for anime for shit they cant pull off half the voice tones and have no idea how to do all the minor tone variations.
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um if you watch subbed anime it takes very little time to learn to read the subs while not adverting your eyes.
yes i speak english and while there are a few animes that dont have bad dubbed voices almost all of them do and cowboy bebob as a good dubb lol it has tolerable voice actors but thats it its not good in any way its just not bad either and FMA had very bad voice acting.
plus the fact that the dubbing companys get pissed about what they say in a anime thinking its not sutible for whatever age group they want to show it to they re=write what they say eventually screwing up by cutting out some important point.
id rather watch a anime in japanese with good voice actors and the proper diolouge rather than not spending a day learning to read subs without adverting your eyes which you only ever have to do if you have got a projector.
americans just cant do voice acting for anime for shit they cant pull off half the voice tones and have no idea how to do all the minor tone variations.
um I do watch subbed anime. But the fact of the matter is, it diverts your eyes attention to the bottem of the screen, rather than where ever the action is.
And you prove that your a Voice Actor Nazi by your comments on Coyboy Bebop and FMA. There is nothing wrong with either of them. You act like all english voice actors suck, and are unwatchable. Thats very rarely true. Get over the hate for you own language.
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i never said the FMA or bebop voice actors sucked they were simply tolerable though fma had some bad ones.
and you musnt watch much subbed anime because i know lots of ppl who watch it and they all agree after watching it subbed for awhile you no longer have to divert your eyes.
and i never said i hated my language just american voice actors the english actors for hellsing did a great job on it so much as it was on par with the jap voice acting hell i even watched it dubbed cause the english accent gave it more feeling since thats where it was based.
what im mainly saying is that the majority of american voice actors suck at dubbing anime and the american dubbing companys are to godamn lazy to find someone with a voice that fits the roll of the person the're doing voice acting for.
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I've trained myself after watching 150 episodes of Naruto in 2 weeks to read and watch at the same time, but I'd still rather not have to do both.
For me, there is only one reason I would prefer a subbed anime to a dubbed one. And thats if it was overly-edited (all blood taken out, etc), the script was overly-edited (like replacing the word "die" with "destroyed", or "kill" with "destroy"), or if the VAs sound horrible. For example, lets take an example of what I'm talking about with a dubbed anime. Lets take Naruto. I refuse to watch Naruto dubbed it sucks so much. They overly-edited it by taking out virtually all the blood, though they thankfully left in some. They overly-edited the script, replacing the word "kill" with "destroy" many a time. For example, when they were talking about Zabuza killing all his peers when he was becoming a Ninja, they used the word "destroy", and completely killed the effect. And thats a common occurance. And as for bad voice actors, Naruto sounds like a little bitch. This is reason #1.
Early DBZ suffered from that, but later on they stop taking out the blood. Hopefully they will stop screwing up the Naruto dub.
There is a difference between getting an english voice actor who sounds like the japanese voice, and getting an english voice actor who sounds the part of the character. English voice actors don't need to sound like their japanese counterparts. They just need to sound the part of their character. Some japanese voices don't sound good in english, and visa versa. VAN (Voice Actor Nazis) don't understand that.
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i acctualy do know what you mean. adn gettign a english voice actor to sound like teh japanese on is stupid getting one that sounds like the character is rarly done.
and 150 eps of naruto for you to not advert you eyes thats pretty bad i did it after watching about 3-4 episodes of evangelion and that was the first anime i saw.
and yes some jap voices dont soudn good in english dubs but thats mainly cause they have to drag out what there saying because they can have more meaning in fewer words with jap to english dubbing the only have to simplify what there saying.
and most of the animes you listed before were the more popular/wellknown ones so obviously there gonna do a better dub (most of the time) when you watch less well known animes the voice acting sucks and in most of the avaragly known ones it sucks to.
one thing dubbing companys could do to make all their dubbs better is also find ppl who at least do not have a massivly strong american accent or sound like sluts/assholes from the crappy american drama shows.
and dont act like im some rabid fanboy anyone with ears and who is not overly racist can tell the diffrence between when a sub is better than a dub or not
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and 150 eps of naruto for you to not advert you eyes thats pretty bad i did it after watching about 3-4 episodes of evangelion and that was the first anime i saw.
I ment during the course of that Naruto watching spree, I trained myself.
I have ears, and I'm not racist at all, and I can tell you that subs are not nessisarly better than dubs. All of my favorite anime (except Naruto) are good dubs. Nothing wrong with any of them.
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and 150 eps of naruto for you to not advert you eyes thats pretty bad i did it after watching about 3-4 episodes of evangelion and that was the first anime i saw.
I ment during the course of that Naruto watching spree, I trained myself.
I have ears, and I'm not racist at all, and I can tell you that subs are not nessisarly better than dubs. All of my favorite anime (except Naruto) are good dubs. Nothing wrong with any of them.
what i mean is most of the non really popular animes suffer from terrible dubs while no all most the reason otaku bitch about dubs is most of the time they're right about them.
ive watched good dubs from when we only saw subbed anime on tapes that my sister borrowed its just annoying when ppl think because the animes they've seen are good dubs ppl saying dubs suck must be idiots, once youve seen a decent amount of anime from the not very well know to the widly known you will see the horrer of the majority of dubbed anime.
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Can we get this topic split?