Chrono Compendium
Enhasa Halls - Chrono Series Analysis => Lavos, the Planet, and other Entities => Topic started by: JonnyCyo on January 13, 2006, 02:20:28 am
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When you look at how fast he was travelling towards Earth, it was obvious that he hadn't even approached the Earth's atmosphere yet and yet he was moving at such a fast rate.
You know he isn't in Earth atmosphere becuase of the 360 degree rotation view of him hurtling down and Earth is still far off in the distance. So don't try and say the Red Star was Red from burning emmissions!
Maybe he was sent there,
perhaps as a probe,
a dominating/colonizing life form,
or a test for people on Earth?
Which is it? Why was he sent?
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When you look at how fast he was travelling towards Earth, it was obvious that he hadn't even approached the Earth's atmosphere yet and yet he was moving at such a fast rate.
You know he isn't in Earth atmosphere becuase of the 360 degree rotation view of him hurtling down and Earth is still far off in the distance. So don't try and say the Red Star was Red from burning emmissions!
Maybe he was sent there,
perhaps as a probe,
a dominating/colonizing life form,
or a test for people on Earth?
Which is it? Why was he sent?
I always thought that Lavos itself landed there by chance, but people like Azala saw the trojectory and knew that he would land.
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Maybe Lavos is just really goddamn fast.
Problem solved.
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Lavos is also red on 12.000 BC and 1999 AD, and he isn't moving there.
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Wait, what exactly are you saying? Hard to read your post...
What the hell does Lavos being red have to do with where he came from?
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The red is obviously not due to the fact of something like air resistance. Its the aura he emanates. He is not burning up or anything.
As for why he was sent, I still believe that it was for expanding a species as all species must do.
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As for why he was sent, I still believe that it was for expanding a species as all species must do.
Are you saying that perhaps he is the last of a species? Because I could beleive that. To me, these "Lavos" dudes (the humanoid itself) are similar to the the Yuuzhan Vong from the Star Wars New Jedi Order series in the way that they use biological technology such as the shell of Lavos. Yet this can be countered by the fact that True Lavos hides inside a friggin machine...so perhaps not...
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As for why he was sent, I still believe that it was for expanding a species as all species must do.
Are you saying that perhaps he is the last of a species? Because I could beleive that. To me, these "Lavos" dudes (the humanoid itself) are similar to the the Yuuzhan Vong from the Star Wars New Jedi Order series in the way that they use biological technology such as the shell of Lavos. Yet this can be countered by the fact that True Lavos hides inside a friggin machine...so perhaps not...
Once and for all, Lavos isn't GENOVA.
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As for why he was sent, I still believe that it was for expanding a species as all species must do.
Are you saying that perhaps he is the last of a species? Because I could beleive that. To me, these "Lavos" dudes (the humanoid itself) are similar to the the Yuuzhan Vong from the Star Wars New Jedi Order series in the way that they use biological technology such as the shell of Lavos. Yet this can be countered by the fact that True Lavos hides inside a friggin machine...so perhaps not...
Once and for all, Lavos isn't GENOVA.
GENOVA's life cycle does bear striking ressemblances with Lavos' in FFVII:AC though, from what I've read about the plot.
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Just wanted to back up that the red color of Lavos shouldn't be from going through the atmosphere or something. Sry, next time I'll try to make it more clear.
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Lavos's lifecycle is:
1. Enter and burrrow inside the planet.
2. Absorb energy until capable of purge. (In Lavos' case 65 mil years)
3. Purge life from the planet in order to make the planet suitable for spawn.
4. Create spawn and allow them to go.
Lavos may have left from his homeworld for probably one of three reasons:
1. The world he was inhabiting was destroyed.
2. The world he was inhabiting had far too many spawn trying to compete to gain energy.
3. All spawn must leave their homeworld and find new worlds to conquer.
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If he were sent to expand his species, do u think they would of waited millions of years to do so? They would of sent fleets of whatever at an instance to take over earth etc. They must of been desperate to expand they're species, so i dont think waiting millions of years was in the question.
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I think that they did not intend the planet to have such a high level of resistance... or maybe its low level. Their species may find 65 million years something like 2 days...
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If he were sent to expand his species, do u think they would of waited millions of years to do so? They would of sent fleets of whatever at an instance to take over earth etc. They must of been desperate to expand they're species, so i dont think waiting millions of years was in the question.
Waiting millions of years? Lavos' goal wasn't political domination of the planet. His goal was to populate his species. Apparently, after he burrowed into the earth, he had to suck 65 million years worth of energy before he had enough spawn the Lavoids. For example, if a man and a woman want to have a child, they can't just decide to have one, and give birth the next day. It takes 9 months. And apparently, it takes 65 million years for Lavos.
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There's a lot of talk about lavos being desperate, or lavos being the last of his species but there really isn't alot of evidence to support this.
Since lavo creates spawn, we must assume that lavos himself was once a spawn. While this is not a certainty (after all we haven't always been humans, so at some point down the line lavos creatures wheren't always lavos creatures). So lavos was once one of those tiny little spawn. At some point he and all his siblings leave the planet in search of new planets. They don't know where the planets are (how could they? They are lightyears away) so they all just go off in random directions. It's possible that once they get within a certain area of a likable planet that they somehow change their trajectory. From one planet comes maybe hundreds, perhaps even thousands of spawn. Like many ocean species they will produce thousands of eggs simply because so many will die, in the end less than 100 of those eggs might survive to become a fish, and even then they may never produce children themselves.
Someone mentioned that 65 Million Years is a long time to wait, but put into perspective that Lavos could have spent Billions of years floating in space before finding earth, it's really not that big of a number.
I dunno, not sure where I was getting at anymore to be honest. Just bablling.
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The fact is that 65 mil years was simply the amount of time needed to prepare for the creation of Spawn. Since we do not know how long it took on other planets where Lavos species to gain control, and how long the space travel took, we cannot say it was long or short.
I really do not see the point of Lavos being desperate. There is no true evidence of backing this up.
There is one thing that has been annoying me though... the similarities between Lavos and the Saiyans of DBZ (seeing as Akira Toryinma created both this really should not be that much of a shock or a bad thing)...
The Saiyans send their offspring to different planets, the offspring wipe out the planet, and then the Saiyans take control of the planet.
Lavos may have come from a planet with cities and urban life. Once that planet got overcrowded, some were sent off to find new planets to make suitable homes. Groups of creatures in these gigantic defensive and energy absorbing shells are launched to find proper territory and inside are the developing Lavosians (The Lavos Cores). Then after the planet is cleansed and purged, we see the Lavos Spawn to be formed. Eventually it becomes another homeworld for the Lavosians. We will never know much about the background of Lavos, especially his homeworld. There are no real clues. This is entirely speculation on my part based on inference.
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Only problem with the "Abassador Lavos" theory is that Lavos doesn't make the planet more suitable for anything. It simply drains whatver planet it goes to off all the energy it needs to reproduce. While lavos may or may not be sentient, I don't think that Earth was chosen and targetted out out of all the planets there are available.
Besides =] If you have the ability to travel Trillions of miles through space I think that culture should be at least partially capable of terraforming. There's just too many far easier ways to make a planet habitable for a single species.
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True its highly impractical... its much more likely that the planet was drained solely for reproduction.
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The fact is that the game focuses way too much on the Lavos Shell, which the Lavos Spawns are. So if Lavos is spawing these little transport shell thingys, where are all the True Lavos beings coming from? Are they born inside of the Lavos Spawns and then travel to other planets to evolve? If so then the fact that Lavos came from a populous planet full of cities may not seem to correct, like doesnt it seem strange to have these massive shells rolling around a populated planet?
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I think if there is an urban Lavosian city than they probably have developed without shells due to the fact they have evolved not to need them, or they conscouisly get rid of them.
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Well, the Lavos Humanoid is only a bit larger than a man... Perhaps a bit taller and wider, but nothing too big. If that's the case, Lavos Spawns would have Humanoids, too, but about the size of a human baby. Therefore, the Shells would be large enough to host them. However, due to their small size, they must be fragile (Like human babies, yes?) and if enough pressure is used on the shell they would be easily crushed. The Humanoid Lavos has about the same vitality (As in HP) as the mouth, so it's safe to say that Humanoids are only there to protect the already small core. If the Lavoid is underdeveloped, than heck, the Core could be as small as a cell in the early stages. Perhaps the Core comes out of the Humanoid Body as a collection of tissues (The Humanoid does send out the two Bits).
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The only reason that Lavo's final form is humanois is because of what it was made of. When you go there Robo (I think) goes, "The DNA of every living creature is in that thing!" paraphrased a bit I think. The final form is, I guess, the ultimate combination of all things the planet had to offer. Had Lavos landed on a planet with predominately blob like creatures, Lavo's final form would have been Bloblike. It should be stressed though that the humanoid body is not a common trait of ALL lavos as best as we can tell.
The problem with the idea of an advanced Lavosian society is that the Lavos lifecycle does not appear to ever involve leaving it's shell. A more proper way to think about it might be that the shell IS lavos, it's his body, but that final form you fight would be it's brain. This is not ideal of course, but the ultimate form is only a part of the entire creature. Why would lavos use all the native DNA in the first place? Not really sure, but it's possible it has to do with how it drains power from the planet. I dunno though.
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Why would lavos use all the native DNA in the first place?
To, hmm, evolve? It would make sense. He lands in a Planet and drains all the DNA to evolve it's race. What's more, Lavos is humanoid, while the majority of life-forms in the world isn't. It's mostly insects. Perhaps the evolution course somehow bound the human DNA to Lavos?
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Why would lavos use all the native DNA in the first place?
To, hmm, evolve? It would make sense. He lands in a Planet and drains all the DNA to evolve it's race. What's more, Lavos is humanoid, while the majority of life-forms in the world isn't. It's mostly insects. Perhaps the evolution course somehow bound the human DNA to Lavos?
I dunno, I can't say much on this simply because I think of the idea of "generic goal of evolution" as a pretty lame one, but that by no means makes you wrong in how the creators might have thought =]
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Why would lavos use all the native DNA in the first place?
To, hmm, evolve? It would make sense. He lands in a Planet and drains all the DNA to evolve it's race. What's more, Lavos is humanoid, while the majority of life-forms in the world isn't. It's mostly insects. Perhaps the evolution course somehow bound the human DNA to Lavos?
I believe it was simply he analyzed what speicies had the greatest influence and control. Had Azala won the war, then probably the core would have been something along the lines of a Tyrano.
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No, I think the Flame had something to do with it... Lavos had to have some link with Mankind. He was asleep all this time, after all.
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First off, wow, Legend, welcome back, you were inactive for a while :)
On the idea of the Humaniod Lavos "core", and the spawns, I have two ideas:
1.) Basically, its from you guys, that that form came about from absorbing DNA of the planet. I like it.
2.) I don't much by this one, but perhaps the Lavos spawns arn't bably Lavos's. This idea comes from FFX. We have Sin, and then we have Sin Spawns. Sin Spawns arn't baby Sins, they are just... well, spawns. Maybe thats what the Lavos Spawns are to Lavos?
Remmber, I like idea one better, but idea 2 is feasible, I think.
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2.) I don't much by this one, but perhaps the Lavos spawns arn't bably Lavos's. This idea comes from FFX. We have Sin, and then we have Sin Spawns. Sin Spawns arn't baby Sins, they are just... well, spawns. Maybe thats what the Lavos Spawns are to Lavos?
Wait, didnt Auron or someone say in the game that Sin Spawns were actually parts of Sin's body? I havent played FFX for a while but im pretty sure someone did state that.
Wait! Remember Operation Mi'hen? The Crusaders shot the Al Bhed cannons at Sin right and all the Sinscales came falling off? I think this is how the Sin Spawn work as well. Because the Sin Spawn only appear in the place where Sin has actually attacked at. So it makes sense that they wouldnt have come from very far away.
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To be devil's advocate here, why can't the Lavos Spawns work the same way? We only see them on Death Peak, which is possibly Lavos' shell.
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Ive never really been one for the Death Peak = Lavos Shell Theory, I mean look at the massive size of Death Peak, is it truly possible that Lavos could be THAT massive? I mean, we see what he looks like in 1999 and he is nothing like that size. How could he grow that big in 300 years. Especially since there is no nutrients left in the earth to feed on.
But yes, the Lavos Spawns could work the same way I spose. Maybe like Cacti they grow little pups on themselves then the pups fall off and grow! :D
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Death Peak isn't THAT much bigger than Lavos's shell in 1999.
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Death Peak isn't THAT much bigger than Lavos's shell in 1999.
Well not really...
(http://www.videogamesprites.net/ChronoTrigger/Objects/Map/Death%20Peak.gif)
Death Peak
and
(http://www.videogamesprites.net/ChronoTrigger/Enemies/DayofLavos/Lavos1.gif)
Look at the size of Lavos then compair it to the party in the battle, its just not right.
Minus the difference in picture size. You can see that they are very different in terms of size.
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Hmm, it'd be nice if those two were, what's that word, proportionel? You look at Death Peak from the World Map's scale and at Lavos from the Party's scale. I agree, Lavos' Shell is Death Peak. I think after he gave birth to the Spawns he died, and the shell was all that remained.
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Lavos doesn't have anything about him being proportional. When lavos erupts from the earth we can assume it's about the size of the hole that is being made, when you fight him he looks like a small cabin sized. When you enter his shell he becomes maybe the size of a football field.
I think what should matter in the discussion here is how big lavos is on the overworld when he does appear there. I think Death Peak is only slightly bigger than Lavos in 1999 AD
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1.) Thats a blown up picture of Death Peak.
2.) Compare it to Lavos's overworld sprite. The one that shows him bursting through the ground.
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Precisely. Besides, you only see the FRONT of Lavos. His back is unseen because Lavos is so damn big.
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Well, there are 2 possibilities:
1/ Lavos's shell is Death Peak -> That makes sense. Lavos's shell rested there and grass and snow slowly grew on it.
2/ Lavos's shell isn't Death Peak -> That doesn't make sense. Explain how a hole in the ground, that probably leads to the center of the planet, can turn into a mountain.
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Precisely. Besides, you only see the FRONT of Lavos. His back is unseen because Lavos is so damn big.
Yeah, Crono and co sure look pretty big too on the world map.
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Well, there are 2 possibilities:
1/ Lavos's shell is Death Peak -> That makes sense. Lavos's shell rested there and grass and snow slowly grew on it.
2/ Lavos's shell isn't Death Peak -> That doesn't make sense. Explain how a hole in the ground, that probably leads to the center of the planet, can turn into a mountain.
The Shell is most likely Death Peak. I mean if you look at the scene in 2300 AD when you discover Lavos, he seems to be standing on what is the tip of his back. He was not in the position that you fight him.
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Precisely. Besides, you only see the FRONT of Lavos. His back is unseen because Lavos is so damn big.
Yeah, Crono and co sure look pretty big too on the world map.
Obviously, they have to make them big. You'll need a microscope to see them in 'real' size. Lavos, on the other hand, can be as big as the map makes him, much like the mountains, forts and castles in the game. They don't need scaling.
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I don't much by this one, but perhaps the Lavos spawns arn't bably Lavos's. This idea comes from FFX. We have Sin, and then we have Sin Spawns. Sin Spawns arn't baby Sins, they are just... well, spawns. Maybe thats what the Lavos Spawns are to Lavos?
The problem with this idea is that Lucca said that the Lavos Spawns were to move on to other worlds, to "repeat the cycle."
oh, and Lavos = Death Peak.
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I don't much by this one, but perhaps the Lavos spawns arn't bably Lavos's. This idea comes from FFX. We have Sin, and then we have Sin Spawns. Sin Spawns arn't baby Sins, they are just... well, spawns. Maybe thats what the Lavos Spawns are to Lavos?
The problem with this idea is that Lucca said that the Lavos Spawns were to move on to other worlds, to "repeat the cycle."
oh, and Lavos = Death Peak.
Well, Lucca could have just been guessing, like how she was with the Marle Paradox. Nobody really knows just what Lavos's life cycle is like.
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Ok so perhaps ive been defeated here (oh well it has to happen to someone :D ).
But have you ever thought about the width of Lavos. Look at the pic of Lavos when u fight him and you know that one party member is about the size of his mouth. So in that picture he isnt very wide at all. Im estimating about 10-15 Cronos wide (probably more actually). Now would Death Peak be 10-15 Cronos wide? I dont think so...
Hmph, no doubt I will be slaughtered as usual. But hey, im only 13...I dont have as big a brain as some of you smarty dudes.
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I'd also say Death Peak is Lavos' Shell. Makes perfect sense to me.
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Chander, look at Lavos's overworld sprite, and look at Death Peak's overworld sprite. Lavos's width is just about the same. Plus, his battle sprite doesn't show his entire body, so he could be as big as a mountain behind there, and probably is.
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Bah, you can win, im not on for a fight anyway...
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Could someone translate that, I'm not sure what exactly he was saying... :(
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ahhh... I'm not sure... But I think he is implying that there are three different scenarios that could have happened (two of which are wrong anyway).
1) That lavos was part of the planet, and was created by it... (then again, who knows) THis is obviously wrong because we see lavos crashing.
2) This one is impossiple to decifer. I think he means that Lavos was destroyed by the planet, or vice versa...
3) Lavos came to earth or was sent by an outside force.
Really, these fractured comments could be interpreted in different ways, so it is hard to 'translate'.
I think maybe he is one of those French Canadians who havent learnt English very well.
I'm not sure why he said 'thank', though.
Maybe he was like: Thanks, I know I rule. I just showeed you the real truth. You will bow down to me.
It's a shame we cant work out this defining theory.
Either that or he is very, fataly wrong.
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I think he just meant that (1) Lavos was born on some planet, (2) which exploded for some reason and (3) propulsed Lavos to Crono's planet.
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Really, these fractured comments could be interpreted in different ways, so it is hard to 'translate'.
See what I mean?
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I am going with Chrono cuz why would Idrian switch from word planet to earth?
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Ive never really been one for the Death Peak = Lavos Shell Theory, I mean look at the massive size of Death Peak, is it truly possible that Lavos could be THAT massive? I mean, we see what he looks like in 1999 and he is nothing like that size. How could he grow that big in 300 years. Especially since there is no nutrients left in the earth to feed on.
But yes, the Lavos Spawns could work the same way I spose. Maybe like Cacti they grow little pups on themselves then the pups fall off and grow! :D
Sorry, just wanted to make a note here. I’m tired of people saying that the period 2400 or 2399 (whatever) is an era where all the lifeforce of the planet is gone and hope is lost. I DEFY THAT I do. There is still life left in the planet the seeds recovered sprouted, quickly at that. Not just in a single location and a single patch of dirt, but in two separate locations on the landmass and at different times. I believe the planet isn't dead at that point, or even dieing. I believe that Lavos didn't drain the planet to a point of death because the planet's energy doesn’t have a limit. It continuously gives off more and more energy or life. Lavos detached from its leechlike position on the planet in 1999 because it finally had enough energy to create its spawns. S'also why he attacked the surface, so that his spawns could roam and prepare before they too went in search of planets to drain for the energy they need to create spawns. Well, that’s my theory at least. Give the planet another thousand years and it'll be a right ol' bundle of life again fresh with (if humans don't make it) new species and beings until one day another intergalactic parasite lands and re-starts the cycle. Maybe this is the universes way of preserving the cycle of life? Let a civilization or species grow to it's peak then strike it down, letting the planet refresh itself then grow anew? I’m sorry; I get way too into this.
Theres my theory, the universes cycle of life for Earth and all life carrying planets.
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We don't get one hint, one whisper towards Lavos' origin, so WHY try to theorize on something with NO evidence? People'll cook up all sorts of crazy theories and, unless they're totally stupid, get away with it!
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I know, like what the hell..
Lavos may be a singularity..
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Yeah, he doesn't have to be a race... Kato's already proven he doesn't let the angry fans get to him: He writes the story without changes to satisfy to masses. People might want millions of Lavos' on one Planet, but to hell with them, says I! Lavos is Lavos, and we won't know anymore until Kato will tell us.
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Ive never really been one for the Death Peak = Lavos Shell Theory, I mean look at the massive size of Death Peak, is it truly possible that Lavos could be THAT massive? I mean, we see what he looks like in 1999 and he is nothing like that size. How could he grow that big in 300 years. Especially since there is no nutrients left in the earth to feed on.
But yes, the Lavos Spawns could work the same way I spose. Maybe like Cacti they grow little pups on themselves then the pups fall off and grow! :D
Sorry, just wanted to make a note here. I’m tired of people saying that the period 2400 or 2399 (whatever) is an era where all the lifeforce of the planet is gone and hope is lost. I DEFY THAT I do. There is still life left in the planet the seeds recovered sprouted, quickly at that. Not just in a single location and a single patch of dirt, but in two separate locations on the landmass and at different times. I believe the planet isn't dead at that point, or even dieing. I believe that Lavos didn't drain the planet to a point of death because the planet's energy doesn’t have a limit. It continuously gives off more and more energy or life. Lavos detached from its leechlike position on the planet in 1999 because it finally had enough energy to create its spawns. S'also why he attacked the surface, so that his spawns could roam and prepare before they too went in search of planets to drain for the energy they need to create spawns. Well, that’s my theory at least. Give the planet another thousand years and it'll be a right ol' bundle of life again fresh with (if humans don't make it) new species and beings until one day another intergalactic parasite lands and re-starts the cycle. Maybe this is the universes way of preserving the cycle of life? Let a civilization or species grow to it's peak then strike it down, letting the planet refresh itself then grow anew? I’m sorry; I get way too into this.
Theres my theory, the universes cycle of life for Earth and all life carrying planets.
Okay, there was one seed they found. And it eventually sprouted. Do you know how long it took for it to do that? No. Are there any other vegitation on the planet at that time? No. Its a wasteland of mutants. The planet produces alot of energy, and to an extent, its a renewable "resource". But its just like blood. We make new blood cells all the time to keep us going. But drain us of our blood, and we die, even if we can make new blood. Thats what was happening to the planet. There was no way the planet was going to recover from Lavos.
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I've read so much funny stuff here. XD
I mean, we all know that the overworld isn't proportional. We all know that everything is not to scale on the overworld. Why do you people even bother trying to compare Lavos' OW sprite to death peak's.
So yeah, if you say that Lavos is Death Peak based on overworld graphics, you might believe that birds are the size of a house and Crono can travel continents in 20 seconds.
Clever.
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How many times must I restate this... Lavos is a parasite. Whether he is from a race, higher order, or on his own, he is a parasite. A parasite must suck out life from its host, but must not kill it. The reason there still is an Earth and some life is because of the fact Lavos would die without a host to inhabit.
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I've read so much funny stuff here. XD
I mean, we all know that the overworld isn't proportional. We all know that everything is not to scale on the overworld. Why do you people even bother trying to compare Lavos' OW sprite to death peak's.
So yeah, if you say that Lavos is Death Peak based on overworld graphics, you might believe that birds are the size of a house and Crono can travel continents in 20 seconds.
Clever.
Lets try not to be an ass unless you can back it up.
Obviously, somethings on the overworld are blown up, and out of proportion. Thats because they have to be. Your party for example, has to, otherwise you wouldn't be able to see them. Same with houses. They have to be blown up, so you can see to get inside them.
But for the most part, things on the overworld try to stay proportional in at least some ways. Mountains are big on the overworld, because SUPRISE, they are supposed to be big. Same could be said of Domes and such. Lavos is shown to be big on the overworld because (you'll never believe this!) hes supposed to be big! WOW!
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Obviously, somethings on the overworld are blown up, and out of proportion. Thats because they have to be. Your party for example, has to, otherwise you wouldn't be able to see them. Same with houses. They have to be blown up, so you can see to get inside them.
But for the most part, things on the overworld try to stay proportional in at least some ways. Mountains are big on the overworld, because SUPRISE, they are supposed to be big. Same could be said of Domes and such. Lavos is shown to be big on the overworld because (you'll never believe this!) hes supposed to be big! WOW!
This is the most retarded logic I've heard. It's just an excuse so you can say "lol i think its big so its big".
Why don't you try something smarter and compare the Lavos1 sprite to the Death Peak map? They're both in the same scale, so you won't have to use that fucked up logic to prove your points.
hint hint spoiler: LAVOS ISNT BIGGER THAN ONE DEATH PEAK MAP
But for the most part, things on the overworld try to stay proportional in at least some ways.
This made me lol btw. =D
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Obviously, somethings on the overworld are blown up, and out of proportion. Thats because they have to be. Your party for example, has to, otherwise you wouldn't be able to see them. Same with houses. They have to be blown up, so you can see to get inside them.
But for the most part, things on the overworld try to stay proportional in at least some ways. Mountains are big on the overworld, because SUPRISE, they are supposed to be big. Same could be said of Domes and such. Lavos is shown to be big on the overworld because (you'll never believe this!) hes supposed to be big! WOW!
This is the most retarded logic I've heard. It's just an excuse so you can say "lol i think its big so its big".
Why don't you try something smarter and compare the Lavos1 sprite to the Death Peak map? They're both in the same scale, so you won't have to use that fucked up logic to prove your points.
hint hint spoiler: LAVOS ISNT BIGGER THAN ONE DEATH PEAK MAP
But for the most part, things on the overworld try to stay proportional in at least some ways.
This made me lol btw. =D
You're an asshole O_o and your argument is flawed. Atleast Sentenal is providing evidence. You're just going "NUH UH!" With some LOL's and excessive arrogance.
How many times must I restate this... Lavos is a parasite. Whether he is from a race, higher order, or on his own, he is a parasite. A parasite must suck out life from its host, but must not kill it. The reason there still is an Earth and some life is because of the fact Lavos would die without a host to inhabit.
Who says Lavos would die without a planet? He seemed just fine grooving out in space until he wanted to have brats of his own. And a parasite can leave a host to die without killing it directly after they don't need it anymore. Just like what Lavos did. Come on, people, why is this even worth debating? Just look at 2300 AD. It's hell. It's DEAD, or atleast dying. It's only a matter of time before all those machines run out of energy and the robots and humans alike die out. Then the mutants and monsters would waste away unless they resort to cannibalism, and even then, their energy will widdle down.
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Oh, fresh meat.
I know you might believe you're superior, but news flash, you're not, son. Treat people with respect, they might have something smart to say. It's not 'Fucked up logic', it's his opinion, and it applies just as much as yours.
Seriously, who do you think you are? We all come here to discuss the Chrono series, not to have our opinions mocked and get ourselves stepped on. That's his opinion, you disagree with it, and that's just fine. But you crossed a thin line.
I actually support Sentenal's opinion. Yes, not everything's up to scale. What do you want, to have a real size Crono and real size houses and castles? It's a Planet, mind you, and the graphics weren't as good as they are today, so they had to have smaller graphics.
Besides, what applies for CT applies for... hmm... EVERY RPG WITH A WORLD MAP.
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You're an asshole O_o and your argument is flawed. Atleast Sentenal is providing evidence. You're just going "NUH UH!" With some LOL's and excessive arrogance.
I didn't want to bring this up, but you're not one to talk about assholeness. =)
So you want me to back up my statements? k
Melchior's hut is the size of 2 Cronos and half. (http://knuck.acmlm.net/Melchior's%20Hut.bmp)
Do you really think that Lavos is bigger than Death Peak? (http://knuck.acmlm.net/map-230llllll0-deathpeak.JPG)
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Hmm, you bring a pic that's smaller then it's actual size into a screen that's rather accurate?
That's Lavos' mouth, not his entire body.
And you better watch it. Aura might be sarcastic, but he's not as rude as you.
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Obviously, somethings on the overworld are blown up, and out of proportion. Thats because they have to be. Your party for example, has to, otherwise you wouldn't be able to see them. Same with houses. They have to be blown up, so you can see to get inside them.
But for the most part, things on the overworld try to stay proportional in at least some ways. Mountains are big on the overworld, because SUPRISE, they are supposed to be big. Same could be said of Domes and such. Lavos is shown to be big on the overworld because (you'll never believe this!) hes supposed to be big! WOW!
This is the most retarded logic I've heard. It's just an excuse so you can say "lol i think its big so its big".
Why don't you try something smarter and compare the Lavos1 sprite to the Death Peak map? They're both in the same scale, so you won't have to use that fucked up logic to prove your points.
hint hint spoiler: LAVOS ISNT BIGGER THAN ONE DEATH PEAK MAP
But for the most part, things on the overworld try to stay proportional in at least some ways.
This made me lol btw. =D
Yeah, you are a complete ass.
And jackass, the only sprite where we see all of Lavos is his overworld sprite. We don't see all of him in his stage-sprite. We see Lavos's mouth, and thats it.
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I know you might believe you're superior.
No I don't.
Seriously, who do you think you are? We all come here to discuss the Chrono series, not to have our opinions mocked and get ourselves stepped on. That's his opinion, you disagree with it, and that's just fine. But you crossed a thin line.
Hey not my fault if you take this personally. o_O
What do you want, to have a real size Crono and real size houses and castles?
No, I simply wanted you to use logic instead of bullshit. Why compare apples and oranges when you can compare it with other apples?
Hmm, you bring a pic that's smaller then it's actual size into a screen that's rather accurate?
It's actually the normal size. o_O
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No I don't.
Something gives me the other feeling.
Hey not my fault if you take this personally. o_O
Oh, I'm not taking it personally. I just hate people like you. The moment someone says something you don't like you call them morons instead of having an actual, calm debate.
No, I simply wanted you to use logic instead of bullshit. Why compare apples and oranges when you can compare it with other apples?
Because we want to see if the apple and the orange are the same size? @_@ If Lavos IS Death Peak, they should be the same size... Why should the game be cheap on Lavos' overworld size? After all, you'd want to see Crono, but you could do without seeing Lavos.
It's actually the normal size. o_O
Last time I checked, Lavos KINDA takes the whole screen.
[/code]
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Ah I tohught you were talking about the first pic.
That was the point of the second pic anyway. To show that Death Peak is bigger than Lavos. Note: Lavos' sprite and Death Peak are at their SNES normal resolution. (320x224)
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Ah I tohught you were talking about the first pic.
That was the point of the second pic anyway. To show that Death Peak is bigger than Lavos. Note: Lavos' sprite and Death Peak are at their SNES normal resolution. (320x224)
Jackass, maybe you misses this before, but that Lavos' sprite you keep taking about is only his mouth. It doesn't show his entire body.
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You know, the shell isn't part of the sprite, it's part of the backdrop. The mouth is Lavos' sprite.
What was this for, you might ask? To prove you only see Lavos' front. When looked from behind, Lavos can be the size of a... WOW, the size of a MOUNTAIN!
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Don't you people try to lecture me about sprites and SNES bgs. I'm pretty sure I know about that more than you. =P I used the word "sprite" simply because I thought you people didn't know. *shrug*
This surely looks like a mountain. (http://knuck.acmlm.net/Chrono%20Trigger%20(U)%200002.png)
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Sure, bring a baby and call him a man.
I'm pretty sure I know about that more than you. =P
Therein lies your worst trait. Even if you do, you don't know us, so don't make assumptions.
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Because you didn't make assumptions at all.
Anyways, stop getting offtopic, shall we?
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Stop ditching my friends, shall you?
We DID make assumptions. We assumed Lavos' shell is Death Peak.
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Don't you people try to lecture me about sprites and SNES bgs. I'm pretty sure I know about that more than you. =P I used the word "sprite" simply because I thought you people didn't know. *shrug*
This surely looks like a mountain. (http://knuck.acmlm.net/Chrono%20Trigger%20(U)%200002.png)
...You have nothing in that picture to compare it to, size wise.
Even at that early state, Lavos's was big enough to cause an ice age with his impact.
Oh yes, I thought you might want to read up on this a bit as well: http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=1445
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I've been on this community for a lot more time than you have. I know the rules.
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Knowing the rules is not the same as following them...
That is only the front of Lavos... look at a Lavos Spawn. Guess what its longer at the back and taller! Hmmm and since Lavos Spawns are proportional to Lavos maybe, just maybe, Lavos is actually a hell lot larger than the battle backdrop.... You know seeing as you only see the front from a view down... not even the full front if you look at it.... seems to me it still is taller. How about we use our brains and look at the sprites in the World Map for Lavos and Death Peak. They seem a lot more logical.
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Can't believe no one has posted this yet. You know there's a lot more opinions here than really anything actually from the game.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/JossiRossi/ChronoTrigger0000.png)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/JossiRossi/ChronoTrigger0001.png)
Also as a note, not sure if this affected it or not, but I went to 1999 AD first. Then when I warped to the future I was at the position in the screen above.
No opinion just something real for once here.
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I was actually just going to post that, you beat me to it.
I had been thinking about it for a long time, but couldnt be bothered to actualy go and do it... oh well.
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I had said that a long time ago that Death Peak was off to the side >.< Lavos maybe climbed atop Death Peak Oo Now that'd be funny to watch XD
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Can't believe no one has posted this yet. You know there's a lot more opinions here than really anything actually from the game.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/JossiRossi/ChronoTrigger0000.png)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/JossiRossi/ChronoTrigger0001.png)
Also as a note, not sure if this affected it or not, but I went to 1999 AD first. Then when I warped to the future I was at the position in the screen above.
No opinion just something real for once here.
Oh finally! Some evidence from their side! =D
I remebered Lavos to be a lot smaller than that. Like, I thought he was the same size as crono's map sprite.
Now that I saw those pics... Yeah, Lavos = Death Peak! =P
JossiRossi wins the internet today.
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JossiRossi wins the internet today.
Hooray! =]
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Oh finally! Some evidence from their side! =D
I remebered Lavos to be a lot smaller than that. Like, I thought he was the same size as crono's map sprite.
Now that I saw those pics... Yeah, Lavos = Death Peak! =P
JossiRossi wins the internet today.
Have we not been saying compare Lavos' overworld sprite to Death Peak's overworld sprite...? He just added pictures to it...
Anyway, gj, Jossi, you converted him :)
@Zaper: Its possible the plate the island is on shifted just a tad to the right, for Lavos to be at the right place.
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Anyway, gj, Jossi, you converted him :)
Jossi converted me too! Sorry Sentanel if I was sounding rude earlier when we "arguing" over this topic. Now that I get two good pics next to each other I can see there not that much larger. :D
Its possible the plate the island is on shifted just a tad to the right, for Lavos to be at the right place.
Hmmm yes, that generally what I was thinking too. But think of how out of place all the continents are compared to 1999...Lavos really moved and sunk lots of land. And it is also possible that Lavos did actually move himself he's not completely stuck in one spot.
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Have we not been saying compare Lavos' overworld sprite to Death Peak's overworld sprite...? He just added pictures to it...
I already said, I remembered Lavos OW sprite as the same size of the one of Lavos falling on the planet. =P The pictures showed me otherwise~
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If you compare the 2300 map to the apocalypse map in TF, they are completely unsimilar. Lavos isn't death peak in my opinion. there is only one place that is slightly similar to that coastline, and the geography would have had to be changed on a monumental scale to incorparate it.
In other words: Lavos =/= Death peak.
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It is possible, think about it, Lavos ripped apart the world with tremendous power that he had been storing up for 65 million years. There was much more destruction then you see in the recording of the event.
And to add to the contrary, its possible Lavos flew over to a spot and sat down there and spawned all the little tykes :lol: He's not stationary the entire time. Imagine he would have had to take cover otherwise he would have wiped himself out.
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Death Peak was already there... Keepers dome is in the same place, and next to that mountain. The only difference is that maybe because Lavos broke so close to the mountain, the land around it could have been disrupted and changed it, and Lavos could have climbe dit, loool XD
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Ya know, like you said a while ago Zaper, that would look nuts having Lavos climb up the top a massive mountain. :lol: :lol:
Hmmm thought of another theory. Perhaps Death Peak already was there (like Zaper said) yet Lavos settled on top (as is stated in the game) and he kinda blended in with the mountain (dont ask me how). Maybe thats how Death Peak got its name.
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This is actually pretty interesting...
I have the 3 maps in screen shots. Here are the links as they are large.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/JossiRossi/CTCE/ctow000.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/JossiRossi/CTCE/ctow007.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/JossiRossi/CTCE/ctow002.jpg
Now, since the 1999 is only partial (and even though it's pretty clear looking at them) I've overlaid the 1999 map onto the Present map. As you can see they line up (without alteration actually). The important stuff is the Eastern Coast of Truce where the beaches line up nearly identical.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/JossiRossi/CTCE/Present1999sm.png)
Full Size:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/JossiRossi/CTCE/Present1999.jpg
Ok so we know that 1999 AD, lines up with the Present. Therefore if something lines up with the present then it lines up with 1999. So the big question is, does the future line up with the present in the same way? It does.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/JossiRossi/CTCE/PresentFuturesm.png)
Full Size:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/JossiRossi/CTCE/PresentFuture.jpg
There's a lot of changes to the map (however there are also some drastic changes between 600 AD to the present, and thats without the extra years or the presumably destructive changes Lavos may have made but that's interpretation.
The one thing that is clear is that the Sun palace is in the same place. If you missed the HUGE red circle then I'm not sure I can help you =]
So through the transitive property =] (If A=B and B=C then A=C) applied to the coordinates of each map. Then when I place 1999 AD onto the Future map, then those are the exact correlary places.
Placing the 1999 map over the Future map gives us this.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/JossiRossi/CTCE/1999Futuresm.png)
Full Size:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/JossiRossi/CTCE/1999Future.jpg
Now refrencing this picture I posted before.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/JossiRossi/ChronoTrigger0000.png)
Lavos breaks out of the ground definitly above Death Peak, by like maybe 7-10 tiles. This is not perfect. Not nearly definitive enough, although the fact it is also on the same vertical axis almost, if not perfectly, is promising.
So there is the distinct possibility. However, given the undeniable information (I personally think. I think I did a good job with keeping all my stuff unbiased) the ultimate conclusion is up for grabs. However, this is all the info we have and ever will have for certain. All other pieces of information can be up to interpretation or debated, the above info is likely the only true fact that can exist in this discussion. In the end it depends on what the person is willing to believe. If you look at this data and see a mountain made from lavos then that is what you will likely always see. If you don't see that and just see it as a regular mountain (albeit one that people think is freaky) then that is also what you will likely always see.
Now, as for my opinion. I think it is Lavos. The mountain is a different shape, it's linked to Lavos somehow, has plenty of lavos spawn which isn't too common elsewhere, as well as other debateable correlative evidence.
And I'm spent.
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Good Job :D Hope you didn't spend to much time on it Oo
Anyway, I'm not sure I can agree that Death Peak is Lavos. Maybe part of it is, but not all of it at most. Like geez, theres a tree growing, theres ladders, theres caves and erosion. The point is that Keepers dome is right next to the mountain in 1999AD, it's just that the mountain changes shape a bit in 2300AD, so Lavos probably climed up it or something.
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How can something this big climb a mountain, exactly?
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Where's the crater-leading-to-the-center-of-the-Planet if Lavos left it to climb a mountain?
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I think that I might be on to something here. We are assuming that Lavos is still alive after bursting through to the surface. I've always thought that the attack that you see him do during the cutscene was actually him dispersing his young into space. People might argue, but think about it. If a huge creature was to burst out of the ground today and starting shooting his young into space, but some come falling back down to earth, wound't the government and everyone on the planet think we were being attacked? We assume it is an attack but it just might not be. And what if Lavos died during the "Birth". What would be left, his shell. I believe in the game that someone says Lavos reign high above death peak. Considering the fact that this game is being translated form jap. who's to say that the sentence could have been Lavos(plural form) reing high upon Death Peak. The reason why I bring this up is because after climbing death peak, do you see Lavos(the one that broke through to the surface)?
I think that Lavos is the name given to the type of organism it is. Lavos shell could have tumbled over to where Death Peak is. The reason why we see Lavos(spawn) on death peak is simple. They migrated. The shell was there.And if you think about it, How many Lavos(Spawn) do you see while climbing death peak? not alot. So the must have either left, or died off. Lavos shoots his offspring into space, where they hurl through it, until they land on a suitable planet. the ones that didn't make it out of the atmosphere crashed back to Earth, detroying parts of it in the process. Some died from the impact(Defects), others landed, but since thew planet was already dying, they had no way to feed, therefore they stared dying off.
Also one question still haunts me. When you fight the spawn on Death Peak, when they r defeated they leave their shell behind. How come they don't enter the shell and fight the core? Is it because they don't have a core? If that is the case, How did the original Lavos core come to be?
Just my opinion, tell me what you think?
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Lavos is refered to as being alive in the future. The most direct quote and evidence I can remember is from the Prometheus side quest where you go and shut down the factory. The Mother Brain says something like, "This planet could support lavos and it's children if the humans were gone." As well as the reference to Lavos reigning from atop the mountain (present tense). It's a lot of indications that Lavos is alive and kicking although it's likely Lavos is sleeping cause that's all it ever seems to do with a few notable exceptions =] Lazy jerk.
[EDIT]
I colored some stuff Blue. Turns out I was wrong. I went in the script real quick to find it and this is what MB said.
Listen well, humans.
Lavos's children will one day have to
leave to seek new planets, and prey.
This world COULD sustain them...if
humans were not around...
I find it odd Lavos wasn't included in this statement. But MB seems to make no reference at all to Lavos' well being directly.
[EDIT EDIT]
More quote stuff. It seems we could potentially be misusing a quote, it's up to interpretation I think.
In 1999, Lavos claims this area, and
reigns from high atop Death Peak.
Lavos continues to replicate......
like a giant parasite, he is consuming
our world.
For the best context check out the game script (http://cc.herograw.org/Black/Publications/ctscript.txt) and search for "atop" it's the second instance. Belthasar is explaining his circumstances and the history. He basically does a moni rundown on Lavos. He starts with mentioning him landing aeons ago, then he skips Zeal (cause he had expalined it a few lines prior), mentions Magus' summoning in the middle ages, skips the "present" time because Lavos is inactive basically, then we go to the quote. He mentions 1999 AND death peak in the same breath. We only know for sure that Lavos ruled the world from Death Peak in 1999 says nothing about him still being there. One can assume he'd still be there, but unless another quote comes up we can not prove it.
Finally the last part of the quote indicated that Belthasar believes Lavos to be alive and reproducing at the present time. So he thinks Lavos is still alive.
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The problem is where is Death Peak 1999? On the map we see nothing of Death Peak, and mountains cannot move. So this does not make sense. If you look at Death Peak and Lavos' hole and 1999 pre-Lavos, Lavos's hole and Death Mountain are on the same axis and slightly apart from each other, while the pre-Lavos land is simply empty and flat. I highly doubt Lavos moved some mountain in 1999 and made it Death Peak.
The only possible thing that would work is if the seismic destruction caused by Lavos was capable of moving the smaller mountain next to the dome and push back the dome. Maybe the strange shape of Death Peak is due to something like Lavos blasting the mountain up to fit his figure. He then managed to either climb "atop" of Death Peak, or more likely bore inside of it.
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I'll try my best to translate that...
1.) Eh, ok?
2.) This one was easy. Lavos's planet was destroyed (blew up or something), which threw Lavos into space.
3.) Lavos went to Crono's planet. Easy :)
We have no idea where Lavos came from, we don't even know that he was ever on a planet before. Meh.
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How can something this big climb a mountain, exactly?
Who says he had to climb it? He could have easily floated to the top. Like think about it, he broke his way through the surface and he is simply floating there so im sure he could float himself over and land on the mountain.
The problem is where is Death Peak 1999? On the map we see nothing of Death Peak, and mountains cannot move.
Then Lavos must be Death Peak then.
The reason why I bring this up is because after climbing death peak, do you see Lavos(the one that broke through to the surface)?
No because Lavos is Death Peak.
I think that Lavos is the name given to the type of organism it is.
Your pretty much right there. But in the game itself, the party and other NPC's refer to Lavos as the shell, because no one knows there is actually something inside of it. So because no one knows the game keeps stating that. So if Lavos = Shell, then when they "Lavos reigns high atop Death Peak", that means Lavos Shell is atop it.
Dammit, just realised that im beginning to go neutral on this topic... :P
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You know, maybe the Lavos from Lavos' hole came out from beneathe it in the cracks, and covered Lavos. That was, Lavos' shell sustains death peak, but the Lava hardened which actually made the mountain ontop of Lavos. That way, if Lavos has a butt, it could be like a vent, and it shoots up through the hardened Lava to the top, where the spawns come out on top of the mountain Oo
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1)lavos was created from lavos's planet
1a)3 alien person go inside lavos's shell
2)lavos's planet was destroyed then lavos been throw out the outer space
3)Lavos went send to ayla's planet 6 billion ago
there phew ...ok any check?
edited: sorry i edit some phase
Your profile states you are from Ontario, but are you a native English language speaker? No offence, but this is kind of hard to understand.
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You know, maybe the Lavos from Lavos' hole came out from beneathe it in the cracks, and covered Lavos. That was, Lavos' shell sustains death peak, but the Lava hardened which actually made the mountain ontop of Lavos. That way, if Lavos has a butt, it could be like a vent, and it shoots up through the hardened Lava to the top, where the spawns come out on top of the mountain Oo
Ya know, im willing to take that as a plausabile theroy. It would explain what the heck happned to the massive crater.
And to all the people who are asking why would Death Peak be some distance (in terms of true distance) from where the crater was in 1999, I say this once again: Lavos destroyed the world, he ripped apart much of what was there. No doubt there was large amount of land that was sunk and stuff like that. It's quite possible that this sort of disruption on the surface caused the plates below to shift positiosn and move the continents. The result is why you have so much random land massess in 2300.
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Those pictures do a fantastic job of showing that Lavos should be Death Peak. The only thing that really bothers me about the theory is that with a planet devoid of life how could a brand new mountain produce the vegetation and trees that it has? Unless Lavos expended its own energy to do so, but I highly doubt it would waste its time with such a meaningless task.
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Your pretty much right there. But in the game itself, the party and other NPC's refer to Lavos as the shell, because no one knows there is actually something inside of it. So because no one knows the game keeps stating that. So if Lavos = Shell, then when they "Lavos reigns high atop Death Peak", that means Lavos Shell is atop it.
That confuses me. U r saying that Lavos shell is reigning upon Death Peak? What I was saying is this, When they say "Lavos reigns atop Death Peak" we assume that they mean the Lavos that crashed in 65,000,000,000 BC. What I was implying is that what if they mean that his spawn, not him, reign upon death peak. what if he is already dead and gone, but his kids r still there. what if Lavos is also the plural form of Lavos, sort of like deer is also plural for deer. We assume that this game is perfectly translated. I was also implying that what if Lavos is not its name as in Proper noun, but noun for what it is .
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You know, maybe the Lavos from Lavos' hole came out from beneathe it in the cracks, and covered Lavos. That was, Lavos' shell sustains death peak, but the Lava hardened which actually made the mountain ontop of Lavos. That way, if Lavos has a butt, it could be like a vent, and it shoots up through the hardened Lava to the top, where the spawns come out on top of the mountain Oo
Ya know, im willing to take that as a plausabile theroy. It would explain what the heck happned to the massive crater.
And to all the people who are asking why would Death Peak be some distance (in terms of true distance) from where the crater was in 1999, I say this once again: Lavos destroyed the world, he ripped apart much of what was there. No doubt there was large amount of land that was sunk and stuff like that. It's quite possible that this sort of disruption on the surface caused the plates below to shift positiosn and move the continents. The result is why you have so much random land massess in 2300.
That would not explain why one of the mountains next to him disappeared while the other 2 remain perfectly intact...
There are 3 mountains on that land area in 1999 there are 2 (excluding Death Peak because according to Lavos = Death Peak then Death Peak cannot be counted for) 2300 AD. The 2 remaining are practically exactly the same state as they were 301 years ago. Therefore something happened to the third one. That third one was also the smallest (relative to the others), and Death Peak is also the smallest of the 3 mountains in 2300.
Seismic force shifts over mountain, Lavos destroys mountain to make the freaky shape, his life force inhabits the mountain giving it barren life, but life none the less. Lavos must be linked to Death Peak, but the fact is that something must have happened to the mountain yet left the others intact.
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Your pretty much right there. But in the game itself, the party and other NPC's refer to Lavos as the shell, because no one knows there is actually something inside of it. So because no one knows the game keeps stating that. So if Lavos = Shell, then when they "Lavos reigns high atop Death Peak", that means Lavos Shell is atop it.
That confuses me. U r saying that Lavos shell is reigning upon Death Peak? What I was saying is this, When they say "Lavos reigns atop Death Peak" we assume that they mean the Lavos that crashed in 65,000,000,000 BC. What I was implying is that what if they mean that his spawn, not him, reign upon death peak. what if he is already dead and gone, but his kids r still there. what if Lavos is also the plural form of Lavos, sort of like deer is also plural for deer. We assume that this game is perfectly translated. I was also implying that what if Lavos is not its name as in Proper noun, but noun for what it is .
Lavos is alive though. Belth uses the present tense in refering to his replication.
In 1999, Lavos claims this area, and
reigns from high atop Death Peak.
Lavos continues to replicate......
like a giant parasite, he is consuming
our world.
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That would not explain why one of the mountains next to him disappeared while the other 2 remain perfectly intact...
There are 3 mountains on that land area in 1999 there are 2 (excluding Death Peak because according to Lavos = Death Peak then Death Peak cannot be counted for) 2300 AD. The 2 remaining are practically exactly the same state as they were 301 years ago. Therefore something happened to the third one. That third one was also the smallest (relative to the others), and Death Peak is also the smallest of the 3 mountains in 2300.
Seismic force shifts over mountain, Lavos destroys mountain to make the freaky shape, his life force inhabits the mountain giving it barren life, but life none the less. Lavos must be linked to Death Peak, but the fact is that something must have happened to the mountain yet left the others intact.
Lavos completely totaled the world when he surfaced. Obviously, that little hill of a mountain got destroyed, like much of the rest of the landscape.
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Those pictures do a fantastic job of showing that Lavos should be Death Peak. The only thing that really bothers me about the theory is that with a planet devoid of life how could a brand new mountain produce the vegetation and trees that it has? Unless Lavos expended its own energy to do so, but I highly doubt it would waste its time with such a meaningless task.
Perhaps Lavos simply radiated its energy unknowingly, producing life. Perhaps if you take the theory that Lavos manipulated Death Peak in the first place to be his own then this could work. But if you believe the theory that Lavos is Death Peak then this could complicate things.
Come to think of it, maybe not: Perhaps Lavos' Shell has a unique ability to house life from the outside (sounds strange, I know) which is why there are dead trees growing on the outside of him.
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dead trees growing... :lol:
The more plausible idea is that Lavos used the mountain that was there and changed it to suit its needs.
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The trees and all that could be an illusion. Maybe Lavos' ordinary shell is there, and it's disguised with an illusion indistinguishable from reality (similar to Kitsune Magic in Japanese Lore) as a natural adaptation to protect Lavos' young from whatever threats could possibly survive the rape of the planet.
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The more plausible idea is that Lavos used the mountain that was there and changed it to suit its needs.
I agree... the mountain has been altered, but nonetheless its still there.
@Sentenal: Look back at 1999 maps posted earlier. There are 3 mountains before Lavos in his area, 3 mountains afterward. The small one (which is nonetheless a mountain and still huge) becomes Death Peak after being blasted into the wierd Lavos like shape.
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When something gets blashed by something powerful, it doesn't get bigger. It blows up. Smaller. The mountain would sooner get DESTROYED than getting built up. Erosion does not work in reversee.
Also, to those who still don't believe it after those two pictures, and the good logic behind it, explain where the hole Lavos came out of went. I mean, it should lead to the center of the earth. After Lavos came out, we should either have a big crater (we don't), or a maybe a volcano-type thing due to magma coming from inside the planet leaking out, I'm no geologist. But we don't have anything. Its as if that hole in the ground was never there. Where did it go?
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When something gets blashed by something powerful, it doesn't get bigger. It blows up. Smaller. The mountain would sooner get DESTROYED than getting built up. Erosion does not work in reversee.
Mount Everest is growing by about 10 cm per year..
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..You do know about this thing called continental drift? Right?
Right?
The reason is because the Australasian plate is forcing it's way up into the indian/asian one and 'crumpling' the land, forcing it upwards into the himalayas.
Right?
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Most likely Lavos reformed the mountain over itself on top of the hole. That could also be reasoning as to why the Chrono Trigger would only work on Death Peak.
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Most likely Lavos reformed the mountain over itself on top of the hole. That could also be reasoning as to why the Chrono Trigger would only work on Death Peak.
I was thinking something similar, except instead of the mountain reforming over Lavos, would it have been possible that as Lavos ascended from the crater that the crater could have closed back up and buckled into what we see as being Death Peak? That would take an immense amount of force, but the force from Lavos' pocket dimension moving through 3-D space might have been able to have such an effect, although we see no hard evidence really supporting it. The dramatic shape of Death Peak, its name, and the fact that we don't see the crater in 2300 A.D. does suggest that this is a possibility.
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Except that the pocket dimension resides in the center of the planet, when Lavos comes out to attack the planet it has exited its pocket dimension. And also, the amount of needed matierial to close that hole would be hard to reproduce. Thats why I say that the hole was closed by Lavos and the reformed mountain.
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Except that the pocket dimension resides in the center of the planet, when Lavos comes out to attack the planet it has exited its pocket dimension. And also, the amount of needed matierial to close that hole would be hard to reproduce. Thats why I say that the hole was closed by Lavos and the reformed mountain.
The pocket dimension does not technically "exist" anywhere in reality as we understand it. It exists parallel to reality in the world, but Lavos' power, or another highly significant source of energy is capable of pulling the two together. When the intersect, then the pocket dimension can manifest itself in "reality" and, more than likely, parts of our reality can manifest themself in the pocket dimension.
Secondly, Let us not forget that when Lavos first arrived on the planet, there was no deep hole, just a crater with a gate. This suggests that the second of impact, he phased into his pocket dimension. Rather than living inside the planet, he lived perpindicular to it, and probably not too far beneath the surface.
Lavos' reappearence in 1999 AD would have easily caused massive volcanic activity. This would of course have been centered over Lavos himself. Since phasing out of time seems to be almost a defensive reflex action for Lavos, it is plausible that if he felt at some point the Magma threatened him, that he would have faded out, and the magma would have formed around the outline of where the pocket dimension was. This could explain the rapid growth of the mountain.
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Except that the pocket dimension resides in the center of the planet, when Lavos comes out to attack the planet it has exited its pocket dimension. And also, the amount of needed matierial to close that hole would be hard to reproduce. Thats why I say that the hole was closed by Lavos and the reformed mountain.
The pocket dimension does not technically "exist" anywhere in reality as we understand it. It exists parallel to reality in the world, but Lavos' power, or another highly significant source of energy is capable of pulling the two together. When the intersect, then the pocket dimension can manifest itself in "reality" and, more than likely, parts of our reality can manifest themself in the pocket dimension.
Secondly, Let us not forget that when Lavos first arrived on the planet, there was no deep hole, just a crater with a gate. This suggests that the second of impact, he phased into his pocket dimension. Rather than living inside the planet, he lived perpindicular to it, and probably not too far beneath the surface.
Lavos' reappearence in 1999 AD would have easily caused massive volcanic activity. This would of course have been centered over Lavos himself. Since phasing out of time seems to be almost a defensive reflex action for Lavos, it is plausible that if he felt at some point the Magma threatened him, that he would have faded out, and the magma would have formed around the outline of where the pocket dimension was. This could explain the rapid growth of the mountain.
Obviously Lavos has control of its Pocket Dimension, I wouldn't being to ponder what other power could have control of it. That seems a bit much for even the Entity.
I can't agree with you on Lavos instantly going into its Pocket Dimension. First off, you clearly hear its cry after it crashes. Second, Ayla specifically says Lavos is deep in the planet before you check the gate to Zeal.
Ayla: Lavos very fast!
Deep under earth already.
I am not saying it doesn't go in soon after the crash, but it doesn't instantly leave upon impact. And remember, those earthquakes that are mentioned in 1000 have to had come from some unstable movement from under the crust. That region isn't mountainous, so it would be difficult to say that it lis near a fault line. The most likely explination is that Lavos and the Pocket Dimension is the cause of it.
I couldn't imagine why Lavos would be threatened by magma if it survived crashing into the planet. Whatever the magma cando wouldn't hold a candle to the amount of damage that would result from that type of crash.
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Ayla says its deep under the planet, yes.
Ayla also wondered what a "Raw-boot" was. And asked if frog was for her to eat. I'm not saying she's stupid, just that I wouldn't trust ayla's expert opinion on anything outside her daily scope of experience.
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and yet Ayla is able to determine Lavos' genetic makeup by smelling him. She can probably smell Lavos WAY down under the earth.
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Even in the context of a world filled with magic, fighting mushrooms, lizard people, and a giant earth-sucking parasite, the idea of ayla smelling lavos being under the ground sounds insane.
However it is possible she knew from examination of the ground, but that only proves he burried himself completely, not that he actually reached the center of the planet.
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Except that the pocket dimension resides in the center of the planet, when Lavos comes out to attack the planet it has exited its pocket dimension.
I'm not so sure if that is completely true. When Crono & co. fought Lavos in 1999 AD, he had already been seen as surfaced before they confronted him. Yet, the confrontation took place in the pocket dimension. That leaves me under the impression that the pocket dimension came to the surface with Lavos.
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Except that the pocket dimension resides in the center of the planet, when Lavos comes out to attack the planet it has exited its pocket dimension.
I'm not so sure if that is completely true. When Crono & co. fought Lavos in 1999 AD, he had already been seen as surfaced before they confronted him. Yet, the confrontation took place in the pocket dimension. That leaves me under the impression that the pocket dimension came to the surface with Lavos.
I agree with him. The pocket dimension i think is like a bubble around Lavos. This is what probably allows him to travel through the planet's crust to quickly, and to rise out of the ground.
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Ayla says its deep under the planet, yes.
Ayla also wondered what a "Raw-boot" was. And asked if frog was for her to eat. I'm not saying she's stupid, just that I wouldn't trust ayla's expert opinion on anything outside her daily scope of experience.
Ayla had ignorance in some areas, but that was because she was from the prehistoric age. I doubt someone from the 1500s would know what a "Tank" was, as in the weapon. Ayla is making an observation there.
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Ayla says its deep under the planet, yes.
Ayla also wondered what a "Raw-boot" was. And asked if frog was for her to eat. I'm not saying she's stupid, just that I wouldn't trust ayla's expert opinion on anything outside her daily scope of experience.
Lets also remember she is the one who creates the word La-vos... somethings she maybe ignorant on... technology for instance, but she seems to be pretty good when it comes to gigantic non human things that come to terrorize humanity.
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Ayla says its deep under the planet, yes.
Ayla also wondered what a "Raw-boot" was. And asked if frog was for her to eat. I'm not saying she's stupid, just that I wouldn't trust ayla's expert opinion on anything outside her daily scope of experience.
Lets also remember she is the one who creates the word La-vos... somethings she maybe ignorant on... technology for instance, but she seems to be pretty good when it comes to gigantic non human things that come to terrorize humanity.
Lavos just means "big fire".
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Yeah. And "Big Fire" doesn't really sound that ginormous or informed.
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Yeah. And "Big Fire" doesn't really sound that ginormous or informed.
It doesnt need to be. The term "Big Fire" is nothing more than a simple describing term. Because Ayla doesnt have a big smarty brain, she doesnt have access to big adjectives and the like. So the term "Big Fire" is enough for her to understand, its enough to explain Lavos as Ayla first saw "him".
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Big smarty brain? Pfft, it doesn't matter. She saw a big flame coming, what would you call it: 'The Alien that will soon devour the planet from the inside and bring upon it's doom in a few millions years) or 'A big flame from the sky'?
Seriously, she just said what she saw. Nothing to do with smarty brains.
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Plus, every other Iokan started to call the Red Star "Lavos" after its crash. Ayla's not the only one.
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Perhaps Lavos was simply just the general name that she gave him, and since nobody else had a name for it because nobody else in her tribe was at the impact site, it was the generally accepted name for him. Over time, as ancient languages fade, the fact that Lavos literally means "big fire" is forgotten, but the word is still used to describe it.
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Except that the pocket dimension resides in the center of the planet, when Lavos comes out to attack the planet it has exited its pocket dimension.
I'm not so sure if that is completely true. When Crono & co. fought Lavos in 1999 AD, he had already been seen as surfaced before they confronted him. Yet, the confrontation took place in the pocket dimension. That leaves me under the impression that the pocket dimension came to the surface with Lavos.
If you remember, when they first walk up to Lavos it isn't in its Pocket Dimension. It's on the ground, with no visible holes underneath it. Once the battle starts the Pocket Dimension appears, which leads me to believe that it retreats into its Pocket Dimension by "summoning" it. (I use the term summon very loosely)
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I would use summon in the sense that it was probably an intentional retreat to the pocket dimension... It existed already, so its more like activating it.
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Wow, this is most popular post ever,
I win!
But seriously.
Ayla, just saw the star, and revealed that it was underground.
Lavos was summoned later on.
Blah blah blah.
Lavos moved quickly through space and crashed into earth.
But why...and from where...
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Where he came from is probably one of the biggest CT mysteries because we will never know.
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I would use summon in the sense that it was probably an intentional retreat to the pocket dimension... It existed already, so its more like activating it.
Whatever you want to call it, Lavos defintely wasn't in it until the battle starts.
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If you remember, when they first walk up to Lavos it isn't in its Pocket Dimension. It's on the ground, with no visible holes underneath it. Once the battle starts the Pocket Dimension appears, which leads me to believe that it retreats into its Pocket Dimension by "summoning" it. (I use the term summon very loosely)
I just opened an old file of CT I had where I hadn't killed Lavos' shell yet, and when Lavos is viewed (non-map screen) before the confrontation, it is in its pocket dimension. As for when Lavos is seen surfacing on the world map, it's too hard to tell if the pocket dimension is "under" it or not.
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How did you start the battle? Epoch? Bucket? Omen?
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I just beat it 2 days ago for the nth time.
Right before the battle for Lavos, and I knew this from before I had just forgotten.
I have challenged him through both the bucket and the Omen by the way.
Before Lavos comes above ground, the blue, "pocket dimension" screen flashes for about 2 seconds, then it reverts to the scene where Lavos busts through the earth.
So the first few seconds must mean that the dimension is upon us.
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How did you start the battle? Epoch? Bucket? Omen?
Bucket and Epoch. I don't consider the Omen route to be a good source in this case because you could just enter the Omen in 12,000 B.C., and even though it supposedly transcends time with Lavos, I feel it doesn't give a view of the 1999 A.D. emergence of Lavos.
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If you remember, when they first walk up to Lavos it isn't in its Pocket Dimension. It's on the ground, with no visible holes underneath it. Once the battle starts the Pocket Dimension appears, which leads me to believe that it retreats into its Pocket Dimension by "summoning" it. (I use the term summon very loosely)
I just opened an old file of CT I had where I hadn't killed Lavos' shell yet, and when Lavos is viewed (non-map screen) before the confrontation, it is in its pocket dimension. As for when Lavos is seen surfacing on the world map, it's too hard to tell if the pocket dimension is "under" it or not.
Is this before or after you have to decide if you are fighting or not.
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Is this before or after you have to decide if you are fighting or not.
Definitely before.
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Huh, that is odd. Back to the drawing board.
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Yeah it is really odd... the more I think about it, the less I can ever remember an instance of seeing ground beneath Lavos... but that is disturbing... He can't always be hidden in the PD.
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Probably someone already pointed this, but still regarding Lavos' size, one evidence that I found very interesting is the passage after you fight Lavos Shell. Its very plausible that it could be made that way intentionaly, and to me it doesnt look like you're climbing. Assuming that the passage is around 50m or so, and the Core stands around the center of the Shell, then would be plausible to think that Lavos Shell has a radius around 100m, no?
PS: Please excuse my (really) bad English, this isnt my native language :oops:
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As best as I can tell, I finalized all information relating to Lavos' size earlier (can't blame someone for not wading through pages of forum posts though)
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?p=40304#40304
Lavos is (In my opinion) actually very massive, but for the sake of gameplay is shown as far smaller when you fight him and in other circumstances.
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Yes it must be in order for many things to be explained... We never see the entire length or height... just the face.