Chrono Compendium
Enhasa Halls - Chrono Series Analysis => Lavos, the Planet, and other Entities => Topic started by: rotorkid on December 21, 2003, 06:43:08 pm
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I was reading a FAQ on GameFAQs about some translation differences in Chrono Trigger and I found that the title of the last chapter of the game, "The Final Battle", is actually called "The End of the Planet's Dream" in the japanese version. This is more evidence pointing to the fact that it is most likely the planet guiding Chrono and his friends through the events of the game.
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I'll add it to the encyclopedia entry that's waiting to be transferred.
Done. It can be viewed at http://www.chronocompendium.com/archive/modules.php?name=Encyclopedia&op=content&tid=276
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I was reading a FAQ on GameFAQs about some translation differences in Chrono Trigger and I found that the title of the last chapter of the game, "The Final Battle", is actually called "The End of the Planet's Dream" in the japanese version.
I hadn't known that. Now that I do, I see that it also adds further meaning to Chrono Cross' last chapter title, "For all the dreamers: Our planet’s dream is not over yet."
And, here too, life goes on...
~ Josh
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also, there were CC lighters (yes lighters) that were made in Japan, and maybe in US I don't know, with some texts on it :
The dream of our planet once had
Defeated the darkness
And brought forth a brighter future.
However this was also the dawn of a new nightmare...
The final battle over the legendary treasure,
"The Frozen Flame"...
A battle between dragons, humans, and fate
That will surpass even space and time...
Is about to begin...
Our planet's dream
Has not yet ended...
(you can see the picture here (http://chrono.lunar-net.com/cc/cross/pics/products/index.shtml))
So the Entity must definitly be the Earth, I think.
mmh... actually we can read this on the game manual or something, but eh I never saw it... :wink:
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I'll add it also. Thanks.
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I was slightly disappointed that the planet ended up being the Entity. Before CC came out, I had always assumed that the Entity from CT was Schala. I don't know why, it just made sense to me that she could orchestrate such a complicated plan. And I still don't get why Lavos ripped Chronopolis back in time... oh well.
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i always thought the nu was some how related to the entity.
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It's been speculated that the Nu are a system of the Entity, agents that perform some function for it in every time period.
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It's been speculated that the Nu are a system of the Entity, agents that perform some function for it in every time period.
for data storage, like magic data for spekkio? or help and conduct people on the right path (like the Nu in 2300 AD) ?
But the Nu was used in zeal.. (strange because Zeal was overwhelmed by lavos power) maybe for sentry purpose?
What the purpose of the nu with mop in the prehistoric time ? :wink:
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Maybe the Nu have nothing to do with the Entity. There is zero evidence in the game to suggest that they have anything to do with either the Entity or Lavos. Finding out their origin is like trying to find out the origin of the Yakra, not really possible. I doubt that they are agents of the planet, they are not found at all in Chrono Cross. You would think that a threat as great as the Time Devourer would require the "agents" to help save the day. I also have a question on the side if anyone would care to answer it: If Lavos (or Time Devourer) controls the Dragon God, why does she want to destroy humankind? I thought Lavos wanted humans to outlast the reptites, yet there is Dinopolis... also why is the planet having humans work for it, it seems as though giving humans that much power would make things worse for the planet, life sure as hell didnt get better after CT so what is the Entity doing??
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I think, in a sense, that Lavos is sadistic. It says in Cross that Humans evolved because of contact with Lavos. It doesn't say that Lavos values them though. Humans use Lavos' power and I figure he doesn't appreciate it.
~AX~
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I think, in a sense, that Lavos is sadistic. It says in Cross that Humans evolved because of contact with Lavos. It doesn't say that Lavos values them though. Humans use Lavos' power and I figure he doesn't appreciate it.
~AX~
He uses humans like labrats, testing genetic mutations on them to see what works best for him. However, when we return the favor, he isn't too happy.
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Maybe the Nu have nothing to do with the Entity. There is zero evidence in the game to suggest that they have anything to do with either the Entity or Lavos. Finding out their origin is like trying to find out the origin of the Yakra, not really possible. I doubt that they are agents of the planet, they are not found at all in Chrono Cross. You would think that a threat as great as the Time Devourer would require the "agents" to help save the day. I also have a question on the side if anyone would care to answer it: If Lavos (or Time Devourer) controls the Dragon God, why does she want to destroy humankind? I thought Lavos wanted humans to outlast the reptites, yet there is Dinopolis... also why is the planet having humans work for it, it seems as though giving humans that much power would make things worse for the planet, life sure as hell didnt get better after CT so what is the Entity doing??
As far as humans doing the Entity's work: See this (http://chronocompendium.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?p=938&highlight=#977) topic. Namely my second and last posts, which confront the necessity of humans in particular. A few other posters discuss it somewhat, too.
But in reality, when Schala fuses with Lavos to create the Time Devourer, the result is not anything like either of them. The result is a hungry monster whose only whim is to destroy everything. Lavos's desires for humankind are no longer in question, and obviously, neither are Schala's.
Also mentioned in that topic is that the Entity really doesn't have any place in Chrono Cross. Its only thoughts were to save itself (given that you accept the Gaia Theory), and since it had done that with Crono, it was through. The only real act it had in Cross was to pull Dinopolis through time to counteract Chronopolis's displacement. Other than that, well, it must be oblivious to the idea that if the Time Devourer succeeds, it will be destroyed anyway. The only real "Entities" present in Cross are Schala and Belthasar. You ought to be able to pick that up from the topic.
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oh ok, thanks :) that makes sense.
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Well, it's already been done. There's 30kb or so in a thread in Kajar laboratories that is waiting to become an article, and yes, it is clearly the planet.
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Just regarding the Nu's in CC, Don't the Beach Bum's remind you of them? There's even one in Belthzars secret room in the library that talks!
To me Nu's are just a creature that Belthzar really likes. You can even see him with one in one of the art pieces by Akira Toriyama? (sp?)
Also I doubt the Nu is any agent of the planet because in the Chrono Trigger OVA, the Nu is clearly stated as a prehistoric monster who loves mischeif and having fun.
So I quite clearly see it that the Planet is the entity.
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Just regarding the Nu's in CC, Don't the Beach Bum's remind you of them? There's even one in Belthzars secret room in the library that talks!
To me Nu's are just a creature that Belthzar really likes. You can even see him with one in one of the art pieces by Akira Toriyama? (sp?)
Also I doubt the Nu is any agent of the planet because in the Chrono Trigger OVA, the Nu is clearly stated as a prehistoric monster who loves mischeif and having fun.
So I quite clearly see it that the Planet is the entity.
Yeah, let's trust the OVA. Good plan.
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OK, OK. I know that was sarcasm.
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Lol. Well isn't the OVA official anyway or something. I did see Crono and Lucca in it :lol:
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Also I doubt the Nu is any agent of the planet because in the Chrono Trigger OVA, the Nu is clearly stated as a prehistoric monster who loves mischeif and having fun.
I...don't see how that casts doubt on the Nu being an "agent of the planet" (for lack of a better term).
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I doubt that if the Nu was an agent of the planet, We'd be allowed to fight it. Fine, Lavos is the agent of the planet aswell >.> And so is Crono, and the M.I.B.
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Oh, in RPGs you fight everything. That's the brilliance of it!
And...In essence...Crono is an 'agent' of the planet...
I mean, look at it this way, Spekkio is, like, a god, and his ultimate form is that of a Nu...
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Just remember, Spekkio is a self-proclaimed God.
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Isn't every god?
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FATE was proclaimed (or rather, programmed as) Goddess by the humans...
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If FATE is female, how come I always get the male symbol when fighting him/her/it?
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Because Lynx was male, and the aspect you're fighting was borne from Lynx (or something).
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Yeah. FATE is referenced as a she, and does come from Mother Brain. However, you're still fighting its avatar, which has just been recombined into a new form (originally it was changed from Wazuki to Lynx, and now it becomes some computer demon).
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Aren't the Nu litterally a being? They are everywhere in all time periods effectively linking them. Perhaps even pulling all timelines together.
In dutch "nu" means "now, at this moment in time".
I think their function could be to point out to people/the characters the presence, if not the importance, of the moment in time itself.
In spite of all the time travel and talk about things of the past and threaths and possibillities in the future, all you ever really experience is now. (I know this last thing to be true in theory even if I don't allways
experience things that way)
And what better way to experience "now/nu" than an all-hitpoints-but-one-consuming blow by a big blue entity who's job seems to be to put up a tough fight. Just to remind you where you are.
They don't seem malevolent or engaged, more like part of a system, ever present. They don't come looking for you but if you're willing to experience the moment they'll let you.
There are obvious flaws in the arguements and thoughts in this post, some of which language related, but maybe it can still be a useful contribution.
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Well as for the supposed the flaws in the previous post, here could be one:
After reading the infamous chrono trigger translation faq, I'm afraid that my little theory seems somewhat less likely to me now.
It seems that Nu was actually Nwu.
Given square's love for the use of german words/names in their games I thought they could well have used a dutch word (pronounced like "new" but without the long"w") intentionally.
Even though the creature's name (Nu) has such an appropriate meaning in dutch (considering the theme and overall content of the game),
it seems like the similarity to the word for now might be purely coincidental.
Alas my poor country, alas. no soup for you.
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Yeah, but that same FAQ goes on to say in Appendix B:
g) NW'U: Finally, the infamous Japanese name for the creature Nu. In
kana, it is written as a katakana NU followed by a subscripted
katakana U. So why NWU instead of NUU or NU'U? Well, there really
is a precedent with the NWU notation. It turns out that to notate
the "kw" double consonant sound (such as "quake", "queen"), sometimes
the notation would be to use KU followed by a subscripted vowel kana.
Following this line of reasoning, we would then indeed transliterate
NU followed by subscripted U as NWU. I choose to insert the
apostrophe to attempt to make it clearer that it is NU+U, rather
than something like syllabic N+U.
This leaves the question of how you'd pronounce "Nwu". Hyena20
suggests that it is supposed to be unpronouncible as a single
syllable, but I find that I was able to pronounce it as a single
syllable fairly convincingly. That aside, that sound, or even
something more ordinary like "nawu", would probably be unpronouncible
to the Japanese, since for starters the Japanese don't have a real
"wu" sound at all, even in classical Japanese. So most likely many
Japanese would try to pronounce it as just NUU (that is, NU followed
by a normal U), since that is readily pronouncible for the Japanese,
and is what the kanas look like anyway.
So, either way, it would still be prounounced like "Nu," just with a longer U-sound.
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i never made the connection to CT's Nu, but Nu (besides its meaning in dutch, also) means naked in french, so they could also be the 'naked' form of the entity
i think it is cool that the translators chose a word that means several things in different languages (anyone know of other meanings?)
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Aren't the Nu litterally a being? They are everywhere in all time periods effectively linking them. Perhaps even pulling all timelines together. ... I think their function could be to point out to people/the characters the presence, if not the importance, of the moment in time itself. ... Just to remind you where you are. They don't seem malevolent or engaged, more like part of a system, ever present. They don't come looking for you but if you're willing to experience the moment they'll let you.
I think this is the best description of the nature of the Nu that I have seen thus far. I throw my two cents in support of it.
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perhaps the nu are observers not beloging to the entity but spekkio because yes they are found in importent time eras but those time eras are also places where large wars are takng place
e.g
prehistoric - the war between the humans and reptites
dark ages - Zeal and the Earthbound ones not really a war but millatary technologies are found e.g the Blackbird
600 AD - the war between Guardia and the Mystics
1000 AD - no wars but i dont think any nu can be found in this era
2300 AD - humans Vs machines not much of a war though and only one nu that belthazar created which was robot (it did have a switch on its body)
end of time - spekkio his final form being a nu and also due to the gates able to watch various time periods
just a obversation i made please tell me any flaws you may find
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The Nu in the elemental place in 1000AD has a Nu who says he will be with Belthasar shortly..
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^^^^^
Yeah, I never understood that. :? :?
He will be with Belthasar shortly????!!!! Huh????!!!! What????!!!!
:? :? :? :?
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He is going to sleep until Balthasar's arrival. Thus, it will seem short to the Nu. That's my interpertation.
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Yeah, but doesn't that Nu just dissapear completely? I think it somehow follows him...So perhaps the Nu have Temporal capabilities.
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I think the Entity is Queen Zeal's soul. Why?
Gaspar in the End of Time says that someone from you is close to someone who needs help. After the Black Omen is destroyed, he says that Queen Zeal's soul rests now.
The characters in the campfire (after taking Robo back), talk about the Entity and say they will find out who is it, when they defeat Lavos.
In "Beyond Time" ending (the default), they say that now the Entity rests.
It may be Queen Zeal's soul who guided them.
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There's a few holes in that though, I do believe...Here's two I can point out right off the bat...
1. Why?
2. How can any of what occurs w/the party be interpreted as Zeal's memories flashing before her eyes?
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Why? Why there should be an Entity? Not a specific reason. Queen Zeal, after her soul was set free, travelled through time (let's say souls can do that) and tried to guide the main characters in this adventure. She caused Schala's pendant to be found by somebody from the royal family who passed it to Marle. She caused Marle to meet Crono, etc etc. Why? Let's say, because she wanted to set her soul free. It's like a loop. When we discuss time travels, we have to accept these loops. Characters were guided to free Queen Zeal's soul, Queen Zeal's soul guided the characters to free her, so that she could guide them to free her again and so on... A loop.
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That doesn't make sense, in the original timeline it is never known what the Queens fate is after the ocean palace disaster. Most likely Schala used the last of her pendants power to teleport her and her mother out of the ocean palace to saftey. So the Queen would have never risen with the Black Omen, ect ect.
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The power the pendant had when the Ocean Palace sank, was used to teleport the characters and Magus to safety. Then Queen Zeal lived in the Black Omen, waiting to become immortal, with Lavos' power... We do not find Schala anywhere, so perhaps she is dead. If the Black Omen falls, Queen Zeal goes with her daughter. What doesn't make sense?
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For then entity to exist it would have to be around before the events of Chrono Trigger occured.
I have come to think that
someone, or something wanted us to
see all this.
The different events over time, that
we have witnessed.
It is almost as if some entity wanted
to relive its past.
In the original timeline, unaffected by the group, Schala never had to use the last of the power to teleport the group and Magus out, they were never there. The Black Omen never existed in the original timeline either.
And Schala is sent to the DBT in the new timeline, where she is merged with Lavos and then the events in Cross happen.
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I don't know Chrono Cross or Radical Dreamers. But I believe that when you face time travels, you need to accept these "loops" I mentioned, which means there is no "beginning" timeline. Timelines in Chrono Trigger are themselves very complex, because while the characters try to save one timeline from Lavos, they let Earth in many other timelines be destroyed from it.
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You should at the least aquaint yourself with the storyline from Cross, if you are unable to play the game. RD not as much, since it is a parallel dimension.
What loops did you mention? I don't see them in this thread, can you quote them for me? I don't want to have to go on a hunt for them.
EDIT: I reread your post, there has to be a begining timeline, or the whole time traveling structure of the game would not work at all.
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When I say loop, I mean that <Event 1> was caused by <Event 2> and at the same time <Event 2> was caused by <Event 1>. When I said beggining timeline, I mean that <Event 1> or <Event 2> started causing the other event first. It sounds crazy, but if there IS a beginning timeline, I think all the other timelines would be different and perhaps not in a loop. At least, this is my opinion.
P.S.: I really want to play CC and RD but I can't find them :cry: . If anyone has any idea... :wink: