Chrono Compendium
Zenan Plains - Site Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: ZeaLitY on September 14, 2005, 05:00:52 pm
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With Advent Children and all, I could gain to have some fun and experience by playing FF7. But should I do it? I'm afraid I'm going to hate it because Chrono Cross is technically superior; NPCs and some locations in Xenogears, for instance, look bland compared to the richness of Cross. I'm also more inclined to play FF8, since it's a love it or hate it game. I usually come out on the loving side, and since the story is about love, it'd be interesting.
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You have to at least try it. I think its a bit overrated, but something that receives more attention than Trigger has to have SOMETHING about it, right? Plus, if you go by your own quote "limit your interests and limit your life.." Well, that should answer it. Don't limit yourself to just Chrono
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Your post reminded of me of just how much I resent those Final Fantasy Fanboys who totally love Final Fantasy (Insert Numeral Here), but absolutely despise Final Fantasy (Insert Other Number Here), and think Final Fantasy (Insert Third Numeral Here) is okay, but didn't live up to the hype. What fools!
Yes, play Final Fantasy VII. It's a good game. It has some of the best music in the series--Nobuo Uematsu once listed FFs VI, VII, and VIII as his favorite, and he cited FF VII's "Cosmo Canyon" in particular. (I remember it because I really like that song myself.) The graphics are obviously not going to compare with later Playstation works, but I've always suspected you aren't the sort of person who cannot enjoy a game simply because it doesn't have the shiniest colors.
And, more importantly than everything, it has a good storyline.
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How can you resent "fanboys" who love (for example) VI and hate (for example) IX? You can't always love an entire series. I mean, Chrono only has two games (three) and some people don't liek Cross but love Trigger. Why can't someone liek one game and not another?
Have you seen Star Wars? Do you like Empire Strikes back? How about Return of the Jedi? What about Phantom Menace? Chances are, you like Star Wars, love Empire Strikes back, think RotJ is pretty good, and hate Phantom Menace. How is that any different?
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How can you not resent a raving lunatic like fanboy who has no real reason to dislike something besides the fact that it isn't thier favorite game?
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Whatever your opinion of the game (good/bad/mediocre), I'd say just because it's so (in)famous you SHOULD play through it just so that you HAVE played through it.
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Yes, you should play FF7. In the gaming community, it's the equivalent of required reading in school. But, unlike most required reading, FF7 sports a high degree of quality and in my opinion is the best FF game I've played so far; it got me hooked on the series. The graphics may not be the best, but the FMVs are still decent even by today's standards; same with VIII. The story has far more depth than 95%+ of the games out there.
As for fanboys, I simply resent them in general, no matter what it is they hate with a passion or desire to give oral sex to. You'll find a lot of Final Fantasy fans out there who continually decry VII simply because of the retards in its fanbase, utterly failing to recognize that it is in fact a very good game. These are the people that laud VI or Tactics as the best simply for the sake of being whiny counter-culture retards, rather than because they actually think it's the best. These are the people that say "they don't make games the way they used to," as well as the especially retarded "graphics don't matter, it's all about the gameplay." The fact is that graphics DO matter; gaming is about immersing you in another world, and without good graphics this is impossible. The original game in a series is never the best simply because it's the original; most historically significant does not equate to best, just as the Roman Empire could never defeat the United States in an armed conflict. It was greater in its heyday, but its technology simply doesn't measure up.
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How can you resent "fanboys" who love (for example) VI and hate (for example) IX? You can't always love an entire series.
I am continually astounded by how readily, indiscriminately, and irresponsibly people use some of the most emphatic language they can muster to describe one game, then turn around and use equally potent language to describe a related game in opposite terms. This is common in the Final Fantasy realm, where fans often categorically condemn some of the games, then speak so highly of others. The overstatement exposes their fraudulence, and I find it hard to take such people seriously.
You mention the Chrono series. I like Chrono Trigger the most, and Chrono Cross the least, but I'm not going to say that CC was horrible. It was a good game. You mention the Star Wars films; I liked V and VI; I really didn't care for I, II, and III. But I reserve my strongest language in every case. It simply isn't necessary to be as emphatic as possible, to draw as wide a division as possible, in order to make a point. Indeed, doing so can be counterproductive in the eyes of people with greater prudence.
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Yes, you should play FF7. In the gaming community, it's the equivalent of required reading in school. But, unlike most required reading, FF7 sports a high degree of quality and in my opinion is the best FF game I've played so far; it got me hooked on the series. The graphics may not be the best, but the FMVs are still decent even by today's standards; same with VIII. The story has far more depth than 95%+ of the games out there.
As for fanboys, I simply resent them in general, no matter what it is they hate with a passion or desire to give oral sex to. You'll find a lot of Final Fantasy fans out there who continually decry VII simply because of the retards in its fanbase, utterly failing to recognize that it is in fact a very good game. These are the people that laud VI or Tactics as the best simply for the sake of being whiny counter-culture retards, rather than because they actually think it's the best. These are the people that say "they don't make games the way they used to," as well as the especially retarded "graphics don't matter, it's all about the gameplay." The fact is that graphics DO matter; gaming is about immersing you in another world, and without good graphics this is impossible. The original game in a series is never the best simply because it's the original; most historically significant does not equate to best, just as the Roman Empire could never defeat the United States in an armed conflict. It was greater in its heyday, but its technology simply doesn't measure up.
Are you speaking just graphically or overall? If you are talking overall I could spit out plenty of examples to dissuade you.
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If you're talking about how people don't use the highest level of description/vocabulary to explain their opinions, they probably jsut say "this thing sucks" to give a very brief description of it and summarize it quickly. If not, I have no idea what you're talking about.
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Yes, you should play FF7. In the gaming community, it's the equivalent of required reading in school. But, unlike most required reading, FF7 sports a high degree of quality and in my opinion is the best FF game I've played so far; it got me hooked on the series. The graphics may not be the best, but the FMVs are still decent even by today's standards; same with VIII. The story has far more depth than 95%+ of the games out there.
As for fanboys, I simply resent them in general, no matter what it is they hate with a passion or desire to give oral sex to. You'll find a lot of Final Fantasy fans out there who continually decry VII simply because of the retards in its fanbase, utterly failing to recognize that it is in fact a very good game. These are the people that laud VI or Tactics as the best simply for the sake of being whiny counter-culture retards, rather than because they actually think it's the best. These are the people that say "they don't make games the way they used to," as well as the especially retarded "graphics don't matter, it's all about the gameplay." The fact is that graphics DO matter; gaming is about immersing you in another world, and without good graphics this is impossible. The original game in a series is never the best simply because it's the original; most historically significant does not equate to best, just as the Roman Empire could never defeat the United States in an armed conflict. It was greater in its heyday, but its technology simply doesn't measure up.
Are you speaking just graphically or overall? If you are talking overall I could spit out plenty of examples to dissuade you.
I never said that the original game is NEVER the best; I said that the mere fact that it's the first is not enough to give it that honor. There are plenty of cases in which the original is the best, but those cases are based on the merits of the game.
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If you're talking about how people don't use the highest level of description/vocabulary to explain their opinions, they probably jsut say "this thing sucks" to give a very brief description of it and summarize it quickly. If not, I have no idea what you're talking about.
No, I am not talking about that. I am talking about the propensity among many of the "fanboy" ilk to extremify (sic) their judgments, creating a sort of inverse bell curve where there are many ones and tens, but relatively few fives. This is in contrast with reality.
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Hadriel, please, spare me. People play games to have fun, not to look and say "Oooo, thats pretty!" Graphics are NOT the primary reason to play games. Graphics are enhasments to gameplay, nothing more. Under your ideas, I can't imagine how you can post "I never said that the original game is NEVER the best", when older games almost ALWAYS have inferior graphics, sound quality, length, etc etc. Under your the ideas you posted, newer always equals better.
The ONLY fair way to judge games is to judge them within their generation.
And yes, you should play FF7. FF7 is a great game. It defined modern RPGs.
And no, don't get your hopes up about FF8. Once you get past the first disk or so, it goes into the crapper. Just because you enjoyed CC, and thats a "love it or hate it" game (I disagree here, I don't love or hate it), doesn't mean you will love FF8. Bland bland bland is all I can say about it.
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Hadriel, please, spare me. People play games to have fun, not to look and say "Oooo, thats pretty!"
The sales figures of games with uber graphics but no substance seem to indicate otherwise.
Under your ideas, I can't imagine how you can post "I never said that the original game is NEVER the best", when older games almost ALWAYS have inferior graphics, sound quality, length, etc etc. Under the ideas you posted, newer always equals better.
Older games usually always have inferior graphics, but as you said, if they're more fun, that's points in their favor. Is Final Fantasy X-2 better than Final Fantasy VI simply because it has better graphics? Hell no. VI's much, much greater fun factor and characterization causes it to edge out X-2 for immersion.
But if you're trying to determine the best game of all time, or judge two games from separate generations against each other, that implies that there exists an absolute standard for gaming. Therefore, the only fair way is to judge a game based on its merits.
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FF7's story is as badly explained in details as CC's, so yeah, you should play it. And try to understand it.
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The sales figures of games with uber graphics but no substance seem to indicate otherwise.
Popular != good.
Therefore, the only fair way is to judge a game based on its merits.
In which newer games excel in almost every area compared to older games.
And I do believe there is a absolute standard for Video games:
Innovation.
Gameplay.
Graphics in terms of its Generation*
Story/Plot, how enjoyable it is.
*For this, take, for example, a game I really wanted to worship, but couldn't: Robotech: Invasion. This is of the Halo 2 generation. Graphically, its superior to games such as Golden Eye, FF4, Chrono Trigger, but in terms of other games within its Generation, such as Half Life 2, or Halo 2, the graphics are poor. So you must judge this within the confines of its generation.
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Are graphics really so important, or does their popularity simply indicate an easily hornswoggled userbase? If we're talking about the innate quality of a game, popularity contests are a poor judge. Just look at the successes of, say, reality television. Is that quality programming right there?
No.
But if you're trying to determine the best game of all time, or judge two games from separate generations against each other, that implies that there exists an absolute standard for gaming. Therefore, the only fair way is to judge a game based on its merits.
• Direction
• Premise
• Plot
• Music
• Gameplay
• Characters
• Graphics
• Interface
• Replayability
In that order, those qualities comprise the "absolute standard" for judging a game. Of course, some games don't have the various elements, or minimize them. It's a tentative list; you're welcome to improve upon it; but my point with it is that graphics are hardly the singular determining factor in the quality of a game. Now, in the appeal of a game, I must needs make an exception for the lowest common denominator, but let's not confuse quality with appeal.
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Sentenal and I seem to be halfway of a like mind on this. I don't know if the world can take it. In the words of Scotty, "She'll blow up!"
:wink:
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The categories should probably be altered based on the type of game. Is SSBM to be branded as crap because it has no plot? I hope not.
The sales figures of games with uber graphics but no substance seem to indicate otherwise.
Popular != good.
Didn't I JUST SAY THAT? Jesus Christ. You didn't get my original point, either. You said that people in general play games to have fun. I correctly pointed out that this was not the case. And then you jump on me by AGREEING WITH ME.
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The categories should probably be altered based on the type of game. Is SSBM to be branded as crap because it has no plot? I hope not.
Nah, I made an exception. Higher-order qualities outrank lower-order ones, generally. (I suppose music should rank higher on the list.) "Premise" provides for the genre, as well as for the theme and its execution.
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The sales figures of games with uber graphics but no substance seem to indicate otherwise.
Sale Figures = popularity.
And me and Lord J agree! Run for your lives!!!
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The sales figures of games with uber graphics but no substance seem to indicate otherwise.
Sale Figures = popularity.
I have the urge to lol, because that was probably a typo. But in any case, they do indeed equal popularity.
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Okay. Now I must pirate Final Fantasy 7 through bittorrent.
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Sales Figures = Popular != good
Simple logic.
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Okay. Now I must pirate Final Fantasy 7 through bittorrent.
GrayLensman is sooo gonna mod you. Pwn'D.
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Okay. Now I must pirate Final Fantasy 7 through bittorrent.
How about you just try amazon? You can probably be legal then. Hell, I got Cross less than a month ago (new) off of there, so I can't think FF7 would be a problem either.
And I'd bet you'd get better results with the PS1 version emulated than the PC version, as the PC version has weird sound/graphic requirements, and thus may stop working on PCs soon.
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Yeah, I planned to acquire the isos somehow. I don't own a Playstation. In fact, I don't own anything past an n64.
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Definitely give Final Fantasy 7 a whirl. It is insanely popular for a reason: it envelops the player. The graphics, the music, the story, the characters, the locations--these all combine brilliantly to form the one game that truly plays you. The game is just that good.
A note about the graphics. They are technically outdated. The character models are fugly and the backgrounds are flat. However, aesthetically, Final Fantasy 7 is rarely rivalved, and in terms of the overall immersiveness of its environment, it has never been beaten. (Not even by Chrono Cross.)
Play the game. It isn't the greatest ever, but you may certainly begin to think it is as the game inevitably plucks at your heartstrings and makes you feel as if you truly are one of the characters. Final Fantasy 7 is a role playing game in the truest sense of the phrase. Very few other video games can make that claim.
(Exceptions: Final Fantasy IX, Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy VI.)
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Final fantasy is a great Series (argubly the finest VG series ever), FF7 was the first rpg a great deal of people of this generation played. The game is a good game and well worth the money (you can get it for 15 new now) ;however its highly highly overated. Personally 6 is my faviote FF and my faviote game ever (narrowly beating CT)
And while 7 may not be my faviote I definitly recognise that it beats the hell out of Chrono Cross in terms of quality and storyline. But hey thats just me
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Play it. Man, Final Fantasy 7 is why I got the Playstation! To me, it was an awsome and fun game. I find it to have one of the best magic systems ever! The materia was a great idea, I wish they had stayed with it. The music is to die for! Man, just having a boss battle play rock style music in the background was enough to keep me hooked for life!
Trust me, it is a game you can continue to play over and over again.
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Is Final Fantasy 7 overrated? How often does it come up in actual conversations? When you speak of it, don't people give you a funny look? Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Final Fantasy 7 simply has a huge fanbase online?
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Not simply online, but in any gaming-circle.
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Not simply online, but in any gaming-circle.
Perhaps, but in my experience, fanboyism is exclusively online where people can easily congregate based on similar tastes. A similar phenomenon is the recent Tarantino revival. Sure, his movies had a second surge with the release of Kill Bill, but only online would you find a highly concrentrated group of younglings who think Pulp Fiction is the best movie ever.
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Play it. I promise you will enjoy it. And when you get right down to it, isn't that all the reason you need? It not the purpose of video games to have fun playing them? Whether you define fun as busting a cap in some hapless pedestrian’s @$$, a'la GTA, or by spending 50+ hours fighting random monsters in the latest FF, or almost that long watching - I mean playing :roll: - Xenosaga One and Two, is irrelevant. So long as fun is had. And FF VII is fun.
By the by, when/if you get around to FFVIII, a word of advice: Pay attention during the Junction tutorials. If you even halfway master that system, every foe in the game save for one optional boss will be your b*tch. If you find yourself summoning GF's every move for every battle, you aren't playing it right.
Oh, and I hope you like card games....
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Firstly, FFVII is only fun if you like the endless mini-games...otherwise? Meh...But, as you said, that's all up to the player, I guess...
Also...Summoning GFs is all that FFVIII is about...Fight won't get you nearly as much damage (rock it, Diablo!), Magic ufcks w/your stats (& your overall number of Magics in general), and Item...well, it's just Item...Except for the final boss, you should find yourself Summoning and becoming a master at tapping that O button like a fiend w/o a fix. So, unless you're using some system that I have no idea of, mastering FFVIII's system was pretty easy, as I recall...Just Summon, Summon, Summon. Maybe you meant "If you find yourself not summoning GFs every move for every battle"?
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Also...Summoning GFs is all that FFVIII is about...Fight won't get you nearly as much damage (rock it, Diablo!), Magic ufcks w/your stats (& your overall number of Magics in general), and Item...well, it's just Item...Except for the final boss, you should find yourself Summoning and becoming a master at tapping that O button like a fiend w/o a fix. So, unless you're using some system that I have no idea of, mastering FFVIII's system was pretty easy, as I recall...Just Summon, Summon, Summon. Maybe you meant "If you find yourself not summoning GFs every move for every battle"?
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Using GF's constantly in FF VIII is the calling card of someone who doesn't understand the system at all. Sure, on disk one, you can do more damage by whipping out Diablo, or the Brothers and tapping O like a crack-addicted monkey. But by the time you're 1/4 of the way through disk two more power magic can be drawn, along with GF's that enable you to Junction more magic to more stats. That my friend is how you get stronger in FF VIII. I don't think I used a GF at all after disk two, ’cept for maybe Cerberus for Double/Triple on the entire party, Doomtrian for some status aliments now and then, and Eden because it just looks so damn cool.
You do have a point about magic in FF VIII. Don't bother uisng it. Even the upper levels spells like Flare and Meteor don't do that much damage. They are better spent boosting stats. Pretty much the only useful casting spells in the game are Aura and Scan. But when you're hitting for 3000-5000 points of damage without triggering the gunblade, who needs magic anymore?
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The only thing that was good in FFVIII was Laguna. He was awsome! His battle music had a really upward beat to it. A lot better than Squall's music.
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Ok, maybe if you raise your Attack stat more than your Magic stat...Maybe it depends on how you play...I don't remember using Fight much unless I had my Desperation Attack/Limit Break thing...But then again, I don't remember a lot of FFVIII...>_> Ironic? Although, I seem to remember doing the Gunblade trigger thing a lot...maybe I'm remembering wrong...but I thought I mostly did Summons...@_@
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There's two words word that'll ruin the life for all you constent GF users out there: Sorceress Adel.
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Are graphics really so important, or does their popularity simply indicate an easily hornswoggled userbase? If we're talking about the innate quality of a game, popularity contests are a poor judge. Just look at the successes of, say, reality television. Is that quality programming right there?
No.
But if you're trying to determine the best game of all time, or judge two games from separate generations against each other, that implies that there exists an absolute standard for gaming. Therefore, the only fair way is to judge a game based on its merits.
• Direction
• Premise
• Plot
• Music
• Gameplay
• Characters
• Graphics
• Interface
• Replayability
In that order, those qualities comprise the "absolute standard" for judging a game. Of course, some games don't have the various elements, or minimize them. It's a tentative list; you're welcome to improve upon it; but my point with it is that graphics are hardly the singular determining factor in the quality of a game. Now, in the appeal of a game, I must needs make an exception for the lowest common denominator, but let's not confuse quality with appeal.
I whole heartedly disagree with that order. Personally I think that they are all equal in terms of importance. But to have replayability dead last is preposterous(sp?). Especially coming from a Chrono Trigger fan!
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A game that is not playable in the first place, is of no replayability value. Replayability goes last because your first goal is to make a game that people will buy in the first place.
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I don't want to buy a game that I will play once and then never want to play again. They go hand in hand really, you want to make a game that people want to play, and play again, and again, and again....
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I don't want to buy a game that I will play once and then never want to play again. They go hand in hand really, you want to make a game that people want to play, and play again, and again, and again....
Yes, I'm not arguing with that. That's why replayability is on the list, after all. My point is that for a game to be playable twice, it first has to be playable once. It first has to contain the substance that'll make players say "Wow, I want to play that again." And what sorts of things would make a person say that? The other things on the list. It would be a logical fallacy to say that a game's replayability is based on its replayability. Replayability is, in that sense, a meta-quality. The real stuff is the other stuff, which therefore rightfully goes higher on the list.
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I think you should play FF7, it's the best FF game in my opinion.
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Yeah, the only way that Replayability could even possibly be higher would be if somehow there were unlockables/extras that actually improved upon any of the previous qualities/merits.
Oh, and Legend of the Past...That's when you whip out yer Auras & Holy Wars and bust a Desperation Break (I like the sound of that now) cap in her (& the following bosses') ass.
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Yeah, the only way that Replayability could even possibly be higher would be if somehow there were unlockables/extras that actually improved upon any of the previous qualities/merits.
Not even that. If completing the game unlocks extras, then you aren't in a position to "replay" those extras when in fact you'll be encountering them for the first time. Radical Dreamers is a good example of this; you can only play one scenario at a time, and thus you'll have to see the end credits more than seven times simply to play the entire game once. I've always thought it was a bit backhanded of game developers to try and forcibly boost their replayability rating by not giving you the full meal the first time around, but Radical Dreamers treated that pretty well. I'd be much less forgiving if the extras were something unimportant like better armor.
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I'm going to see if Ramsus has Final Fantasy 7, and borrow it from his house as I did Chrono Cross. If push comes to shove, I will buy it.
It's just hard for me. It depresses me to no end that Final Fantasy 7 is now THE RPG; it's getting all this wonderful treatment with amazing computer generated characters and revivals. It hurts that Chrono Trigger is so stunted in a way because it was not released on the next generation of consoles after the SNES, and is thus sort of behind a veil of "classic influence to venerate" rather than "mainstream required playing." It really makes things feel abandoned on our end of things.
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Put simply:You should play FF7 now. It's personally my second favorite game of all time. It was first, until I found Chrono Trigger. :D
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Hey, if it makes you feel better, if I was the one who went around an set requirements for RPG play, I'd require Chrono Trigger, FF6, and FF4 to be played before any other game.
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I'm going to see if Ramsus has Final Fantasy 7, and borrow it from his house as I did Chrono Cross. If push comes to shove, I will buy it.
It's just hard for me. It depresses me to no end that Final Fantasy 7 is now THE RPG; it's getting all this wonderful treatment with amazing computer generated characters and revivals. It hurts that Chrono Trigger is so stunted in a way because it was not released on the next generation of consoles after the SNES, and is thus sort of behind a veil of "classic influence to venerate" rather than "mainstream required playing." It really makes things feel abandoned on our end of things.
Each generation of gamers has its own console, and all that sticky sentimentality therewith...
I think the 16-bit console / 8-bit handheld generation was the best to date, but then again that's the one where I came of age. People older than me swear by the Commodore 64 or the Atari 2600, while people younger than me are all over the Playstation 2 or the X-Box. I'd say the 16-bit era was when the hardware first had the technological capacity to really tap into the true potential of video games, and game developers went ahead with some bold new projects. But who knows, really? My list is a good starting point, but the question of the best generation of consoles is a fertile ground for continuing debate.
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I'd add FFTactics, Star Ocean, & BoF3 (& maybe BoF2...I'd prefer a better translation before falling in love w/it, myself) to Sentenal's list. ^_^
It maybe be sad that CT was Square's last big hurrah on the SNES rather than it's first new game into the 3D, 32-bit era...But who knows?
Personally, I think that FFVII's popularity, while still the highest of any RPG, is waning. If people aren't realizing that it simply isn't that great, then they're realizing that there are better RPGs out there. With each new game, and especially each new console, a lot of new gamers flock to the newest RPG and a lot of the last generation criticizes it for not being the previous generation.
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Hey, if it makes you feel better, if I was the one who went around an set requirements for RPG play, I'd require Chrono Trigger, FF6, and FF4 to be played before any other game.
I'd agree with those, but in reverse order (so you know the evolution of it).
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I didn't mean to give it any order. In terms of greatness, I'd rank them FF4, CT, FF6.
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There's two words word that'll ruin the life for all you constent GF users out there: Sorceress Adel.
Word.
Oh, and Legend of the Past...That's when you whip out yer Auras & Holy Wars and bust a Desperation Break (I like the sound of that now) cap in her (& the following bosses') ass.
Or you could master the Junction system and kill her in like three commands, all of them being "Fight"
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Final Fantasy 7 is the best game ever(exept Chrono Trigger R.D. C.C.).
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Final Fantasy 7 is the best game ever(exept Chrono Trigger R.D. C.C.).
...
So, it's the fourth best game ever, then?
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Fifth if you count Spaceballs: The Game.
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Fifth if you count Spaceballs: The Game.
And I dont. :P
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How convoluted is the plot compared to that of Chrono Cross?
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How convoluted is the plot compared to that of Chrono Cross?
Try this.
You are mercinary for a terrorist group trying to take down a massive coorperation. Then, He appears. Then go on a 3 disc quest just to defeat this #1 Bad Boss.
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How convoluted is the plot compared to that of Chrono Cross?
The complicated details in the plot are the character's identities and relationships, instead of time-travel and dimensional mechanic.
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Oh, and Legend of the Past...That's when you whip out yer Auras & Holy Wars and bust a Desperation Break (I like the sound of that now) cap in her (& the following bosses') ass.
Aha, you use Holy War, damage Adel greatly. Unfortunatly, you killed Rinoa too and got a Game Over.
Oh, and as for FF VII... It has some very confusing bits, which are the character identities, like Sentenal said. There's a spot in the game where you think you know Cloud, but a later sequence just tears that apart and make you see Cloud isn't what that part made him seem to be.
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Or you could master the Junction system and kill her in like three commands, all of them being "Fight"
Okay, so there are TWO exceptionally easy ways to play/beat FFVIII, is that what you wanted me to say? I mean, heck, the way you're saying it...I thought FFVIII was easy, but now I see that it could have been even easier? Lame.
Unfortunatly, you killed Rinoa too and got a Game Over.
Who needs her? Intercepter would tear her and her stupid dog to bits. And I wanted to get people w/better Desperation Breaks! Although I forget who I used now...Maybe it was Rinoa...I know I had Squall & Zell...oh well.
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Who needs her?
The story does.
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How convoluted is the plot compared to that of Chrono Cross?
The complicated details in the plot are the character's identities and relationships, instead of time-travel and dimensional mechanic.
That's probably the best way to put it. The characters' histories can get confusing at times, because half the time everyone's either lying or telling a falsehood that they think is true. Even the villains aren't completely immune, except maybe for Jenova.
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Jenova.
You mean Mrs. I'm-an-Ancient?
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ZOMG JENOVA BOOBEEZ
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Or you could master the Junction system and kill her in like three commands, all of them being "Fight"
Okay, so there are TWO exceptionally easy ways to play/beat FFVIII, is that what you wanted me to say? I mean, heck, the way you're saying it...I thought FFVIII was easy, but now I see that it could have been even easier? Lame.
Unfortunatly, you killed Rinoa too and got a Game Over.
Who needs her? Intercepter would tear her and her stupid dog to bits. And I wanted to get people w/better Desperation Breaks! Although I forget who I used now...Maybe it was Rinoa...I know I had Squall & Zell...oh well.
I think you're getting Adel and Ultimecia confused. We were talking about the fight with Adel at the start of disc 4. Rinoa could not have possibly been in your party for that one.
And you are clearly missing my point, so I give up. If you can't follow my logic, its no wonder you never got the Junction system.
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Oh, and Legend of the Past...That's when you whip out yer Auras & Holy Wars and bust a Desperation Break (I like the sound of that now) cap in her (& the following bosses') ass.
Aha, you use Holy War, damage Adel greatly. Unfortunatly, you killed Rinoa too and got a Game Over.
Oh, and as for FF VII... It has some very confusing bits, which are the character identities, like Sentenal said. There's a spot in the game where you think you know Cloud, but a later sequence just tears that apart and make you see Cloud isn't what that part made him seem to be.
Sentenal said no such thing :)
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YOU MUST PLAY IT, IT'S THE BEST GAME EVER!!!!
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YOU MUST PLAY IT, IT'S THE BEST GAME EVER!!!!
Er, no offense, but typing that in all caps and not stating any reasons for why it's, "THE BEST GAME EVER!!!!!", doesn't merit much respect for your opinion...
Anyways, I personally thought it was overrated, though I did enjoy it a bit. I thought the game was at its peak during the beginning when you were in Midgar, but then I thought it got boring when you left and started chasing after Sephiroth...for the rest of the game. I guess I just liked the whole, "Rebellion against gigantic corporation," bit of the plot better...
Still, I recommend at least a play through. To see if in your own mind to lives up to the (insane) hype it has...
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I personally hated the rebellion against Shinra bit; it seemed like eco-freak bullshit, which was actually why I delayed playing the game. I absolutely hate environmentalism; I took a lot of pleasure in kicking the shit out of the Reptites in CC for that reason.
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Disc 1 is so close to being finished. I can't wait...
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Yeah, it's a decent game, but not the best game ever. It's got it's good points and its bad, like any game. I do have to agree with Kazuki though, I liked the beginning Midgar stuff best. Save the planet, blow stuff up.
The end boss, I also felt, was entirely too easy. What they should have done is make the boss(es) proportionate to the level of your character, like Spekkio in CT or bosses in the Lunar series. Or at least make him as hard as either of the Weapons (Ruby or Emerald).
In any case, it is worth at least a playthrough.
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I had bad experiences with FF7 fanboys and I guess that's why I tend to say it's overrated and whatnot. FF7 just brought the RPG home to America who before never fully embraced it in a mainstream sense. Before all rpgs were popular only in a cult-like sense, a fanatical cult-like sense, and of course completely home in Japan. That's probably and no what am talking about, THAT IS why it had the impact it had, and created so many zealous fans. It made it cool for everyone. It brought it home because it came at the right time and was everything it needed to be and more.
I think looking back what hit me so hard was the music of the game, it quite simply is the best music I've heard in any game except for CT. It still gets in my head from time to time.
I also loved FF8, and still think it has the greatest intro I've seen out of any game ever.
I find it weird that FF6 is the only game in the series to have a girl as it's main character. It's also my favorite. :)
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Well, thats not nessisarily true... With FF6, I wouldn't say there is one, defined main character. Early, it is Terra. Then its Locke. Then Celes. Then everyone, basically. Thats part of the beauty of FF6.
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Well, thats not nessisarily true... With FF6, I wouldn't say there is one, defined main character. Early, it is Terra. Then its Locke. Then Celes. Then everyone, basically. Thats part of the beauty of FF6.
Meeplelard kinda put this issue to rest on GameFAQs. He's still there, I would imagine, and he's like a one-man Compendium in his thoroughness and logic. Just go post a thread titled "Terra is not the sole main character in FF VI," and he'll be right along. Oh, and may God have mercy on your soul. =P
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What, is he defending the contrary?
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What, is he defending the contrary?
I used to vacillate between the "no main character" and the "You" camps, but his Terra arguments are very convincing, and quite adamant! There's a Terra fanboy for the history books.
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Well, I would tend to agree that Terra is the main character moreso than others, but I will clarify that I don't mean the others don't get any character development. Why, I wrote a 300 line poem venerating Cyan!
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Well, I would tend to agree that Terra is the main character moreso than others, but I will clarify that I don't mean the others don't get any character development. Why, I wrote a 300 line poem venerating Cyan!
Oh, well obviously. Final Fantasy VI has outstanding character development for a surprisingly large number of playable characters.
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I'd rather not go to a forum for the sole purpose of starting a debate. I hate it when people do. Anyway, what points does he bring up?
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Meh, you don't have one main character. You've got Terra, Celes, Cyan, Locke, Sabin, Edgar, Strago, Relm, and Shadow that get major development time; that's a surprisingly large number.
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Meh, you don't have one main character. You've got Terra, Celes, Cyan, Locke, Sabin, Edgar, Strago, Relm, and Shadow that get major development time; that's a surprisingly large number.
The best thing about Shadow is the whole Shadow <-> Relm <-> Strago thing. That with the whole "Inn" dream sequences really make him quite the unique character, and unlike MOST other stories out there, you never are told 100% what occured. You're of course 90%+ sure, but you never have complete certainty, and definitely not the entire story.
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I always thought Tina/Terra was the main character.
1) You start the game playing as her.
2) She's the game's logo. This can obviously be argued because Kain isn't the main character of FFIV.
3) a) Bannon says that she is the world's last glimmer of hope.
3) b) Kefka's ultimate goal is the destruction of hope.
4?) I never tried a CES game of VI, but I've heard from people that Terra shows up at end game regardless of if you recruit her or not. I don't know if you have to talk to her in the WoR once or at all to have this happen...or if it happens at all really...
Mainly because of 3...I mean, in the WoR I used to think that it changes to Celes...but really all it does is open on Celes' scene first. There's no real reason. She just becomes the fetch person to go and get everyone else with as Terra/Tina comes to grips w/her responsibilities to the children and to the world.
And as much as Locke/Lock is a better theif/character than Zidane (and, really, all other theif characters), I never really thought he was the main character...
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Dude, Zidane kicks Locke's ass harder than Reno's whack-a-mole rod. Unlike Locke, he can actually do some real damage, and unlike Locke, he's actually an engaging character. I didn't find myself really caring what happened to him.
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1) In the first 3 disks all Zidane is is a goodie-two-shoes for no reason but "It's the right thing to do, boys & girls!". Lame.
2) Unless I'm mistaked, Zidane's limited to a 9999HP damage cap whereas Locke is not.
3) The Locke & Rachel/Pheonix scene in the WoR is one of the most touching scenes in RPG history.
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...you are aware that it's pretty stupid to cite HPs when comparing characters, right?
Zidane's not nearly as much of a goody-goody as he's made out to be. He's got just about the right blend of hero and anti-hero; which is appropriate, as IX is basically an homage to every other Final Fantasy.
If one says that the Locke/Rachel scene is touching, one must also acknowledge everything with Aeris and Cloud. VI honestly isn't that great. It's good, but not great. The opera is also not particularly of good quality, either; that can be criticized on its artistic merits, since the gameplay mechanics have nothing to do with it. As far as operas go, it's pretty lame.
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...you are aware that it's pretty stupid to cite HPs when comparing characters, right?
...you are aware that you brought up their respective damage dealing capabilities, right?
Unlike Locke, he can actually do some real damage
Zidane's not nearly as much of a goody-goody as he's made out to be.
All I remember is that he did nothing for any real reason. The only thing we knew about him was that he didn't know anything about his past. And heck, even when we do learn about that...it's not anything super great...
If one says that the Locke/Rachel scene is touching, one must also acknowledge everything with Aeris and Clod.
No, one does not.
The opera is also not particularly of good quality, either; that can be criticized on its artistic merits, since the gameplay mechanics have nothing to do with it. As far as operas go, it's pretty lame.
Uh, did someone mention the opera scene? Well, it was a cool scene when the game came out...but I guess you completely disregard that for no real reason, so, w/e...
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I was speaking of relative damage capacities. HP is a different issue; every game has a different cap. I'm pretty sure that 9999 is the HP cap in VI, anyway.
Locke/Rachel and Aeris/Cloud are basically the same thing in terms of their behavior towards one another.
I actually wish they'd rewrite the opera to the same tune, but with different lyrics. The tune's actually really good, but the lyrics are kind of cliched.
But heh, Cloud is kind of a clod sometimes.
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I think you should play FF7 because I think you would enjoy it and it has a very good story line that is pretty deep in some spots of it.
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The opera scene was great for it's time simply because no one had ever done anything like that in a game before. There are other publications and fans that'll say the same thing, it was a great scene. Yea the lines were cliche but it was still memorable.
And I never really liked Zidane. I mean he never really was that interesting besides the fact that he was always trying to get in Princess Garnets' pants.
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Locke/Rachel and Aeris/Cloud are basically the same thing in terms of their behavior towards one another.
I do NOT see how you compare them. Locke and Rachael were ENGAGED, and against her parent's wishes (at least it seemed they didn't like him very much, and probably NOT just because of the accident), whereas Aeris/Cloud was more like her hanging off his arm every so often with a shallow infatuation. Rachael was tagging along with Locke, whereas it was more like Cloud was hanging with Aeris (though it went both ways at times). And Locke went to INCREDIBLE lengths to revive Rachael, and Cloud... it just wasn't anywhere near the same thing.
PLEASE explain how you see their relationships as anything similar???
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1) In the first 3 disks all Zidane is is a goodie-two-shoes for no reason but "It's the right thing to do, boys & girls!". Lame.
2) Unless I'm mistaked, Zidane's limited to a 9999HP damage cap whereas Locke is not.
3) The Locke & Rachel/Pheonix scene in the WoR is one of the most touching scenes in RPG history.
Oh man, totally agree with you there. :)
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Shallow infatuation, eh? As opposed to what?
Their relationships are similar because of their function in the plot; the ladies die and provide impetus for the heroes to do what they do. Aeris and Rachel are pretty much exactly the same. There are also a plethora of reasons why Aeris is unrevivable; Phoenix Downs only work if the character is knocked unconscious. Notice if you will, on the Status screen, if a character has 0 HP they are listed as "KO" not "Dead." Phoenix Downs can heal anything from gunshots to severe medical trauma, but Aeris just outright died. If this were not true, Locke could have simply used a Phoenix Down on Rachel. For that matter, every dead character in Final Fantasy could be resurrected. As this is not the case, one is forced to go to outrageous lengths, such as Locke did, and even that didn't sustain her for more than a few minutes.
Compared to Sephiroth, the characters are also exceptionally weak at that point in time. Him stabbing Aeris was the equivalent of dropping a nuclear bomb to get rid of an anthill. If that doesn't kill you, nothing will.
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Their relationships are similar because of their function in the plot; the ladies die and provide impetus for the heroes to do what they do.
Rachael died BEFORE the story of FFVI, whereas Aeris dies DURING FFVII. Locke's life changed because of the accident AND the aftermath of the imperial attack, and his focus towards fighting the Empire changed as a result. He was radically changed by the loss of the love of his life. But because we didn't WITNESS most of the relationship doesn't mean it was any less real. And despite what happens sometimes these days, getting engaged is NOT a minor thing, especially for two such as them.
But Cloud & Co. were ALREADY going after Sephiroth when Aeris died. They were half-chasing her, and half-chasing HIM. It really didn't change their direction at all. And somehow I doubt Cloud was completely changed in the way he did things by Aeris's death. Affected him? Definitely. She was a close friend (at the least), but completely change his direction in life? Not at all really.
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It changed the way he pursued his goal, though, and the way he thought about it. Sephiroth used to be his hero, but then he did something really, incredibly despicable toward Cloud. It would be basically the same situation as if George Lucas went apeshit and decapitated all my friends.
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It changed the way he pursued his goal, though, and the way he thought about it. Sephiroth used to be his hero, but then he did something really, incredibly despicable toward Cloud. It would be basically the same situation as if George Lucas went apeshit and decapitated all my friends.
Yes but you aren't on a death stalk of Lucas already are you? (I hope you're not) They've been chasing Seph since he killed Pres Shinra in Midgar. And they eventually found out he was trying to destroy the world too. Basically BEFORE he killed Aeris they were after him.
And Locke wasn't really "after" the empire UNTIL they killed Rachael. And it impacted THE REST of what he did too, as he went after Terra because she had no memory, etc. I just see Rachael's death as a non-trivial influence on Locke's life as a whole, whereas they would have kept going after Sephiroth whether or not he had killed Aeris, and basically the rest of the story STILL would have happened either way. It was more of a "shock event" rather than a story event, whereas Rachael's made Locke be PART of the story.
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Actually, Cloud didn't decided to go after Sephiroth until AFTER the Shinra President incident. Why? They thought he was dead until then.
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Actually, Cloud didn't decided to go after Sephiroth until AFTER the Shinra President incident. Why? They thought he was dead until then.
Exactly. "Since that incident" they've been after him. Yes they didn't know he existed before then, but basically they were after him from the moment they knew he existed.
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I was speaking of relative damage capacities. HP is a different issue; every game has a different cap. I'm pretty sure that 9999 is the HP cap in VI, anyway.
Zidane's Max damage=9999HP<Locke+Offering+Gengi Glove
That's the cap I was refferring to. There are no multiple hit moves in IX so the max of any character (excepting maybe Vivi w/his Double Black overdrive thing which would just be x2) would be 9999HP. Locke can quadruple Zidane's damage capabilities and all w/o having to do it Desperation style.
As for Locke & Rachel and Clod & Aeris...You can compare them, sure...But they're only truly similar in a very general sense. They are different characters from one another and to simplify them like that seems ludicrous to me. Clod had only just met Aeris after all...It's like comparing love to infatuation. Sure they come from the same place, but they have entirely different meanings behind them.
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Offering+Gengi Glove
I was always a magic-centric person at end-game, so I was always a fan of Gem Box + Economizer (anything in 2nd slot really), then Ultima + Quick, then Ultima + Ultima, and Ultima + Ultima. 5x9999 to all on the screen for 6mp. Then get Gogo to mimic it.
:D
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Offering+Genji Glove+Atma Weapon+Illumina=Complete ownage.
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Offering+Genji Glove+Atma Weapon+Illumina=Complete ownage.
I could never figure out the colliseum. My characters always did completely idiotic things. So I never bothered trying to get illumina.
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I used the Imp combo. You send an Imp in to battle, who can only attack, with the offering and genji glove attached, and all the Imp armor and weapon.
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I used the Imp combo. You send an Imp in to battle, who can only attack, with the offering and genji glove attached, and all the Imp armor and weapon.
I considered sending in Umaro too, though I never followed through. I figured he'd probably work well since all he can do is attack as well.
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I think I used Cyan...
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I just got an idea. For FFXIII, they should just go all out and make it take place in Star Wars. Let's face it, they've been going that direction ever since VI, at least.
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Hey, FF7 was really good!
Zeality, how far have you gotten in FF7 now? Beaten it?
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Yes. I'm going to buy AC once it comes out over here.
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What did you think of the game overall? How did it compare to CT and CC?
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My friends uncle lives in Japan, and he got him AC! He is gonna burn it for me to!! But he told me its only good for the action, storyline wise it sucks...!
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I heard the storyline is a bit weak, but once you think about it for a while you're like "WOW".
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Yeah, but the ff7 story was very good. with all these new add ons like dirge of cerebus, before crisis and crisis core, and ac, what will become of this commodity? Will squeenix attack ff8 and 9 next (x has already been attacked by :gasp: x2) If they do, and then we see ff8: ultimecia returns, or ff9: kujas story, or ff8: zell kicks some guy in the balls, or ff9: a new struggle, featuing garnet and zidane, as a married couple fighting evil with cool, revealing costumes and laser guns ala star wars (only hadriel would like that), then be sure that i WILL raise hell. square enix hq will mysteriously be blown up by a giant fire. now you know how jumbo cactaur felt when you used firaga on him. MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH :smack: ow
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What do you mean only I would like that? Bazillions of people would buy that for the explosions and Garnet boobies. He would no longer be Zidane Tribal the helper; he'd be Zidane the Pirate Bastard who runs a website (http://www.maddox.xmission.com) trashing hippies and old people in his spare time. Muahahahahahaha...
The storyline in AC is a bit hard to understand at first; you do have to think about it a bit.
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.... If they do, and then we see ff8: ultimecia returns, ...
Final Fantasy VIII-2: Rise Of Ultimecia. Hell yeah, I'd pre-order it right now if it existed. At long last, the story of how Rinoa (or her decedent) became Sorceress Ultimecia will be explained.
Though I wonder what the point would be, since we already knows how it would end. Then again, the end of ‘Ocarina of Time’ and 'Lufia 2' had already been revealed by ‘A Link To the Past’ and ‘Lufia 1’ respectively, so I guess Square should be able to pull it off with the same amount of success.
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I saw AC at a screening at AWA last weekend. The story didn't seem bad, but the fights in it were awesome.
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Altogether, it was a great game and a rich experience. Cloud Strife already was a bit of an underdog who amazingly remained resilient and collected throughout the adventure, but when it was revealed that he had fabricated his tenure in SOLDIER and other facets of his history, I liked him even more. It put him in the category of an unconfident imitator, and he dreamt it all up just to not feel inferior around Tifa. Cloud's basically a good person, and his own personal evolution and coming to terms was well documented. I also like how the love triangle was tastefully handled; love is suggested between Cloud and Aeris often, but never do they consummate it. All the while, Tifa continues to lend herself to Cloud, but he remains merely offish and aloof (especially after Aeris dies). We're left wondering if Aeris's death significantly damaged Cloud inside, and whether he still has his loyalties to her and not Tifa (quite yet). Without ever speaking it, FF7 tells the story of this muffled, restrained pain inside all their hearts. I was able to really connect to the game after each event due to the great appeal to humanity. Barret outlandish behavior is explained as the result of distress over the Corel disaster, and this reinforced his character. Yuffie, the proud girl, is explained as coming from a village that has completely lost its honor. Cait Sith turns out to be a Shinra executive himself, though a good one, and Red XIII is revealed to be a relative teenager, a contrast from initial display as a wise warrior. Above all else, Cid and Vincent live in a world of crushed dreams, but live nonetheless; Cid is every bit as determined and rough as he was before the rocket was cancelled, and Vincent, revealed as allowing a tragedy to occur feeling he cannot atone for it in any way, starts to forgive himself and open up.
Thus, no one is who he or she truly seems, but in the end, they are -- if that makes sense. Each character comes off as a great or formidable person in the beginning, but some aspect of their history or an event places their weaknesses in plain view. This really allows them to shine, and increases believability by amazing amounts. The fact that these heroes suffer from their own mistakes and pitfalls daily, and were all at one time very weak or failed at their dreams, but continue to live with extreme veracity makes them true, believable heroes. It's so easy and engaging to connect with them, because they're so appealing; each has his or her own demons to wrestle with, and though their flaws make them look weak, their resistance and undying perseverance and evolution seals them as true fighters in life. I'm failing at saying what I want to here, but...it's amazing how real they all are. The inspiration is incredible.
My main complaint is that the character of Sephiroth was given the shaft by not receiving any lines during the entire end of the game. He could have spoke volumes, knowing all the weaknesses of the party, and could have deepened the plot with a stunning revelation or two that only increases the party's motivation against him. Instead, he merely gets right down to fighting, blowing this opportunity. In addition, you almost can't have the main boss become some quasi-philosopher demi-god with his own themesong replete with a score including church organ and terrifyin gLatin hymns without at least SOME lines asserting his superiority over the others. I really wish Sephiroth would have grown more, and it feels like someone just forgot to write some lines for him.
Oh, and for that quasi-philosopher demi-god with his own hymns and reverie:
(http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/wiki/images/c/c6/Final_Fanatasy_6_Kefka_SNES.png)
I absolutely love that cliche in RPGs. Suddenly, the end boss is this Classical monstrosity who seems like he knows something you don't, and taunts you at every turn as if it were all delightful fancy.
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Ummm, i meant Ultimecia returns, not rise of ultimecia. Ultimecia returns would be her being reborn, and fighting skeletons and SeeD (altered beast, anyone?)
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Altogether, it was a great game and a rich experience. Cloud Strife already was a bit of an underdog who amazingly remained resilient and collected throughout the adventure, but when it was revealed that he had fabricated his tenure in SOLDIER and other facets of his history, I liked him even more. It put him in the category of an unconfident imitator, and he dreamt it all up just to not feel inferior around Tifa. Cloud's basically a good person, and his own personal evolution and coming to terms was well documented. I also like how the love triangle was tastefully handled; love is suggested between Cloud and Aeris often, but never do they consummate it. All the while, Tifa continues to lend herself to Cloud, but he remains merely offish and aloof (especially after Aeris dies). We're left wondering if Aeris's death significantly damaged Cloud inside, and whether he still has his loyalties to her and not Tifa (quite yet). Without ever speaking it, FF7 tells the story of this muffled, restrained pain inside all their hearts. I was able to really connect to the game after each event due to the great appeal to humanity. Barret outlandish behavior is explained as the result of distress over the Corel disaster, and this reinforced his character. Yuffie, the proud girl, is explained as coming from a village that has completely lost its honor. Cait Sith turns out to be a Shinra executive himself, though a good one, and Red XIII is revealed to be a relative teenager, a contrast from initial display as a wise warrior. Above all else, Cid and Vincent live in a world of crushed dreams, but live nonetheless; Cid is every bit as determined and rough as he was before the rocket was cancelled, and Vincent, revealed as allowing a tragedy to occur feeling he cannot atone for it in any way, starts to forgive himself and open up.
Thus, no one is who he or she truly seems, but in the end, they are -- if that makes sense. Each character comes off as a great or formidable person in the beginning, but some aspect of their history or an event places their weaknesses in plain view. This really allows them to shine, and increases believability by amazing amounts. The fact that these heroes suffer from their own mistakes and pitfalls daily, and were all at one time very weak or failed at their dreams, but continue to live with extreme veracity makes them true, believable heroes. It's so easy and engaging to connect with them, because they're so appealing; each has his or her own demons to wrestle with, and though their flaws make them look weak, their resistance and undying perseverance and evolution seals them as true fighters in life. I'm failing at saying what I want to here, but...it's amazing how real they all are. The inspiration is incredible.
My main complaint is that the character of Sephiroth was given the shaft by not receiving any lines during the entire end of the game. He could have spoke volumes, knowing all the weaknesses of the party, and could have deepened the plot with a stunning revelation or two that only increases the party's motivation against him. Instead, he merely gets right down to fighting, blowing this opportunity. In addition, you almost can't have the main boss become some quasi-philosopher demi-god with his own themesong replete with a score including church organ and terrifyin gLatin hymns without at least SOME lines asserting his superiority over the others. I really wish Sephiroth would have grown more, and it feels like someone just forgot to write some lines for him.
Oh, and for that quasi-philosopher demi-god with his own hymns and reverie:
(http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/wiki/images/c/c6/Final_Fanatasy_6_Kefka_SNES.png)
I absolutely love that cliche in RPGs. Suddenly, the end boss is this Classical monstrosity who seems like he knows something you don't, and taunts you at every turn as if it were all delightful fancy.
pretty much the way I feel about ff7 XD
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I think Sephiroths's characters was good. He wasn't a quasi-philosopher demi-god. Well, maybe a little bit. He was supposed to be mysterious, cold, heartless, madman. And he got plenty of development in Cloud's various flashbacks, times where you meet him, and that place where his "father and mother" were. Don't remmber much about that part, though...
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Kefka: The answer to existence lies beyond chaos.
Kyle: ...Cartman, what the hell are you talking about?
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You put it so well
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Actually, I hear that if the FFVII collection (as it's being called) goes well, that they're looking in FFVI's direction for possible spin-offs/sequal things...That'd be awesome...War of the Magi...Clyde & Billy...Celes, Leo, Kefka, & Emperor Gestahl (maybe)...there's plenty of possibility there.
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I thought they were planning a FFXII spin-off with Balthier?
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...Celes, Leo, Kefka, & Emperor Gestahl (maybe)...there's plenty of possibility there.
That would be interesting. One of the most elaborate fanfics I've ever read deals with the Empire before the events of FFVI, and I must say that for all its weaknesses I enjoyed it. I like that game a good deal, and those characters.
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There is one thing I admire Sephiroth for; his utter selfishness. For some reason, I find this immensely appealing.
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He'd slit his mama's throat for a nickel!
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Really? Didnt Sephiroth start his quest by trying to save his mum?
(i understand the metaphorical sense of that post)
EDIT:O, i get it. its a quote from ff6... :oops:
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I don't get it. For some reason, I really like Sephiroth now. There's something appealing about his character that I can't place.
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Maybe because he is a silent crazy, rather than a loud crazy, like other villians. You know hes mad in the game. But he doesn't act like hes crazy. If that makes any sense.
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Exactly. He's the powerful, plotting killer, but he can talk so silently and thoughtfully you'll be sure he's a sane, balanced person.
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Exactly. He's the powerful, plotting killer, but he can talk so silently and thoughtfully you'll be sure he's a sane, balanced person.
There are some very insane and VERY dangerous people in real life that were/are like that. Supposedly almost everybody that met Ted Bundy (no, not Al) thought that he seemed perfectly normal and rational.
That's actually a really scary thought. The ones that act whacked stick out, and thus are recognized, and thus their damage potential is only so much. It's the "normal" ones that are the most dangerous.
/shiver
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I don't view Sephiroth as insane; he is utterly selfish and angrily motivated. There's reason to his actions.
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Under that logic, Kefka was sane as well. He had his reasons too.
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No, Kefka was subject to the first experiments with infusing people with magic... which Cid said he never was the same afterwards.
As for Sephiroth... he was an honorable warrior... until the Nibelheim (spelling) incident. Why... the Shinra Mansion. In it, he learned a horrible truth, his origin. Some say that ignorance is bliss... I'd agree.
Did you ever get the Zack flashback Zealty? It adds a little more of what happens to Cloud and where some of his memories come from.
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No, Kefka was subject to the first experiments with infusing people with magic... which Cid said he never was the same afterwards.
Where the hell did it say that?
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Well, Kefka just seemed to show up and go HAHA. Sephiroth never really was much for theatrics. That's the line I'm drawing, in case my point was fuzzy.
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Kefka could have just been really happy.
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I think it gave Kefka's backstory in some corollary product full of information that should have been explained in the game.
Sephiroth and Kefka were both nuts. Except that Sephiroth wasn't a transvestite male hooker sideshow reject with a gay laugh. He was a BAD ASS MOTHER FUCKER who did all the dirty work himself. Kefka just moved a couple of statues around while laughing maniacally about random shit that nobody ever made any sense out of. He should have been doing stand-up, not trying to conquer the world.
That would have made a hell of a Chappelle's Show episode...too bad the latter went nuts or something and walked out on his contract.
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For who wants to learn more about the Nibelheim episode and the Zack/Cloud/Sephiroth relationship I'd recommend downloading the FFVII - Last Order OVA, it's a very cool OVA, worth seeing even if you just wanna se something fun XD
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An NPC in Vector tells you that Kefka was the first Magik Knight (Magitek if you must) or whatever and well, that's why he's nuts, cause the process wasn't refined...and, well, as we know, it wasn't a sound process even in the end...Only through Espers' Magirock could you truly obtain the powers that the Espers had within themselves.
Except that Sephiroth wasn't a transvestite male hooker sideshow reject with a gay laugh.
Besides the laugh part you coulda fooled me...>_>
Plus, what did Sephiroth really do anyways? Not a lot it seems...It was mostly Jenova...>_> At least Kefka wasn't being controlled...He killed quite a lot of people prior and after 'just moving a few statues around' (which just happened to rearrange the face of the planet btw)...
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It wasn't Jenova. You can attribute moral responsibility for Sephiroth's actions to Jenova to a degree, but Sephiroth was the one that actually carried out the plans. There's no way around that. Not only that, it's not like Jenova was possessing him or something; he cooperated with her willingly.
Sephiroth did quite a lot in terms of his power. He fully expected to not only handily survive the meteor, which appeared to be the size of Texas or larger, but actually absorb all of its energy and the Lifestream, to boot. This is a much larger energy release than the Chixulub impact that Chrono Trigger attributes to Lavos. That one was "only" about 100 teratons; the nickel-iron asteroid involved in that was only 5-10 km in diameter. An asteroid the size of Texas would do exponentially more damage, at around 900 km in diameter. To give an idea of scale, that would basically equate to taking six to ten complete Death Star II superstructures, binding them together with uber-superglue, and smashing them all into a planet (the six to ten figure is used because most of what isn't taken up by the reactor is hollow). Your characters can't equip materia that powerful until the end of the game when you get the Master Materias, and even then, basically anything but King Arthur's spectral crew would be helpless to stop the incoming meteor. Kefka couldn't have done that in a million years. Kefka used the statues to rearrange the face of the world, not his own power. Even after becoming ruler of the world, the best he could do was blow up a town every once in a while. Not only that, he almost certainly had a higher death toll than Kefka beforehand; he did bust into the Shinra Building, decimate most or all of the guards and other personnel, and kill President Shinra. Considering that Shinra basically is the government, that's no small feat.
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Out of all the gay transvestite baddies, Kuja is the best. He defeated and controlled Bahamut. And he has THE saddest and most deep storyline, and he has no soul, and is a literal bastard, so the term "souless bastard" actually is true. Lets see Sephiroth and :laughs: Kuja beat him!
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It wasn't Jenova. You can attribute moral responsibility for Sephiroth's actions to Jenova to a degree, but Sephiroth was the one that actually carried out the plans. There's no way around that. Not only that, it's not like Jenova was possessing him or something; he cooperated with her willingly.
I've heard hundreds of fanboys argue both that Jenova does indeed control him or not...Personally, I think this confusion is one of the major factors of the game that makes me not like it...Not even the kids who like the game can agree wtf Sephiroth did or didn't do...:roll:
He fully expected to not only handily survive the meteor, which appeared to be the size of Texas or larger, but actually absorb all of its energy and the Lifestream, to boot.
Yes, I recall a lot of expecting and not a lotta doing.
Kefka poisoned Doma, killing not only all of it's people (Cyan's wife & child!), but the Empirial soldiers held prisoner inside! He also (in no particular order) knifed Leo in the back, enslaved Terra, betrayed and killed his own Emperor, and probably had his hand in the Empirial attack on Rachel's town (sounds very Kefka to me anyways). Then he goes and ufcks w/the Magical balance of the world and creates a literal World of Ruin where all hope is even more limited then it was before! His goal is simple in its complexities: the pure and absolute destruction of hope itself.
He's one twisted sonofabitch.
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Well said, V_Translanka. You don't often find people that actually get Kefka. And I'll go one further by saying this: He actually won.
Even if it was just for one year, Kefka did one thing that Sephiroth didn't: he actually succeeded in his goals. Most of his goals in fact. So Sephy burned down a town. Kefka poisoned one. Yeah, he killed President Shinra. Kefka took out the Emperor. Sephiroth finished off the Cetra race with Aeris's murder. Kefka wiped out the entire Esper race in an afternoon. Still, genocide is genocide, so I'll count that as being equal.
Sephiroth summoned Meteor. Kefka re-arranged the Goddess Statues, the source off all magic. One gets a face full of Omnislash for his troubles, the other becomes a demi-god; the living personification of despair and hopelessness for an entire year before they are finally taken out. Can you guess which is which?
Now, I'm not saying Sephiroth isn't a force to feared and respected. Of course he is. As a general rule in a game from Square, anyone who can wield a sword called Masamune demands respect (except for Dario. That was one cheap-ass battle...). Of the two, however, Kefka is clearly the better villain. Nuttier than a fruitcake, as gay as the sunshine club, takes make-up and wardrobe lessons from ICP, but when you absolutely, positively have to destroy the very essence hope in one scene or less, accept no substitutes.
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Well said, Kefka is more twisted than a pretzel. Sephiroth may be twisted, but not that twisted.
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Right. The reason I like Sephiroth, and I like most actualized characters in series or games, is because he's consumed with anger -- but he's completely motivated and knows EXACTLY what he's doing. He's self-serving, but he's completely conscious and aware of everything. The anger, directed at anything and everything, and his calculating control and discipline form a lethal, active combination.
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Yes, I recall a lot of expecting and not a lotta doing.
Doesn't matter. The math works.
Kefka poisoned Doma, killing not only all of it's people (Cyan's wife & child!), but the Imperial soldiers held prisoner inside! He also (in no particular order) knifed Leo in the back, enslaved Terra, betrayed and killed his own Emperor, and probably had his hand in the Imperial attack on Rachel's town (sounds very Kefka to me anyways). Then he goes and ufcks w/the Magical balance of the world and creates a literal World of Ruin where all hope is even more limited then it was before! His goal is simple in its complexities: the pure and absolute destruction of hope itself.
Meh, I could've done all that. Well, at least the stuff that didn't involve magic.
And can you HONESTLY say that it was harder to kill the Emperor than to kill President Shinra? I mean, seriously. Even entertaining that notion should automatically render one's argument invalid, for one simple reason: Shinra had guns, and lots of them. If Kefka had been working for Shinra and tried that shit, he would've had 50 SOLDIERs on him in two seconds firing enough AKs to leave him looking like Swiss cheese before grinding up his body and reprocessing his molecules into confetti.
The point is that Kefka did almost none of his notable deeds under his own power. Everything Sephiroth did or expected to do, he did on his own. Besides, if Kefka was such a badass, he would have just blown up the rest of the world after he stole the Goddess Statues' powers. Not only that, they apparently weren't true goddesses, as you can hurt and defeat them.
Personally, I will always hold that Sephiroth is the better villain, because he's much more engaging to me as a character. There isn't really any debate over who possesses more raw power, though. I do take power into account when I judge the quality of a villain.
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An NPC in Vector tells you that Kefka was the first Magik Knight (Magitek if you must) or whatever and well, that's why he's nuts, cause the process wasn't refined...and, well, as we know, it wasn't a sound process even in the end...Only through Espers' Magirock could you truly obtain the powers that the Espers had within themselves.
I've played through FF6 3 or 4 times, and none of the NPCs in Vector EVER told me that.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kefka_Palazzo
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And can you HONESTLY say that it was harder to kill the Emperor than to kill President Shinra?
Did you forget the spells Gestahl was huckin' at Kefka? If Kefka hadn't a been smart enough to wait until he was in the field of the Goddess statues, anybody coulda been toast, including Shinra...and honestly, by that time in FFVII I was drifting through it and being put to sleep by the characters...I don't remember being all that impressed by Shinra (I know I wasn't by the Turks).
I doubt 50 soldiers would have been much trouble to Kefka w/the amount of raw magical power he had at his disposal (not to mention Magitek Armor, which eventually becomes so far beneath him). If Leo couldn't touch him, I doubt any regular Shinra grunts could.
The Empire had magic lasers and Kefka had no problem w/anybody in Magitek Armor. Magic lasers>guns in my books.
Besides, if Kefka was such a badass, he would have just blown up the rest of the world after he stole the Goddess Statues' powers.
Uh, but that would have gone against his entire goal. He wasn't just one of those whackjob villains (ok, that can be argued) that wanted to blow up the world and kill everyone on the planet. He wasn't after such petty goals. He wanted more. He was out to destroy HOPE, man! Taking into account a villain's goals, I think Kefka gets the crown (after the DoT, but it didn't mean to destroy all existence, so it doesn't count...>_>).
Not only that, they apparently weren't true goddesses, as you can hurt and defeat them.
Since when are all gods & godesses immortal? I don't understand people that think that. :?
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God's and Goddesses arn't immortal. Just look at Norse Mythology...
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Could Shinra beat up the Kefka you fight at the end of the game? Probably not with ground troops. The Sister Ray might be able to do it, though. However, the spells that Gestahl was using would have been easily shrugged off by Shinra's heavy hardware, considering that even summoning Bahamut won't get rid of the Turks in one round. Ultima does considerably more damage in VI than any summon you can call forth. Merton is slightly weaker than Ultima. Gestahl reasonably expected to fry Kefka with it halfway through, while in VII, using Ultima on the Turks when you fight them around the halfway point won't get rid of them. Therefore, it stands to reason that the Turks would utterly wipe out Kefka in his human form. Hell, even Palmer had a gun that shot second-level spells. Two or three of those can generally equal a third-level spell in power.
Destroying the planet would have been a pretty good way to beat hope. Actually, it would have been the only way. If he could do it, he would have just gone ahead with it. He's certainly crazy enough. The fact that he didn't and that he shows no indication that he can is evidence for a belief that he isn't that strong.
When I think of a "god" I think of a being who absolutely cannot be defeated. If there exists a way to defeat someone, then no matter how advanced or powerful they are, they're just that; a powerful being. The very definition of the word "god" implies that the being exists wholly outside the laws of nature and can circumvent them at any time, something that Kefka didn't seem to be able to do even after he stole their powers.
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Bahamut could not destroy Kuja, and neither could Garland, but we're not talking about him. How come?
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Because you touch yourself at night.
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Because hes nothing special.
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Because you touch yourself at night.
Therefore, i am a man.
EDIT: Because hes nothing special.
Nothing special! He was planning on destroying all of life! And joining two planets or whatnot! HE WAS A VESSEL FOR SOULS! He was teh man!
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Wow, he was trying to destroy all life? Thats so original!
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Yea, but he was doing it in a way that was very cool and saddening to see, because Kuja was a demented psycopath that is a clone fo sorts
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ONE WINGED ANGEL RULES
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ONLY THE ORCHESTRATED VERSION
Could Shinra beat up the Kefka you fight at the end of the game? Probably not with ground troops. The Sister Ray might be able to do it, though. However, the spells that Gestahl was using would have been easily shrugged off by Shinra's heavy hardware, considering that even summoning Bahamut won't get rid of the Turks in one round. Ultima does considerably more damage in VI than any summon you can call forth. Merton is slightly weaker than Ultima. Gestahl reasonably expected to fry Kefka with it halfway through, while in VII, using Ultima on the Turks when you fight them around the halfway point won't get rid of them. Therefore, it stands to reason that the Turks would utterly wipe out Kefka in his human form. Hell, even Palmer had a gun that shot second-level spells. Two or three of those can generally equal a third-level spell in power.
Alright I dunno how well the spell comparisons are since Magic is so downplayed in VII, but let's split the difference then...how about compared to the damage that Leo was dealing out w/Shock & the almighty Gengi Glove+Offering (not to mention w/e sword he had...what was it anyway? i don't remember) combo? That was round after round and in the end Leo was just, like, hitting his shadow. Kefka pwnt Leo.
Destroying the planet would have been a pretty good way to beat hope.
That just destroys life not the hope that they had really. He wanted it so that the living could not hope. His aspirations were lofty and at the same time completely nutso. I mean, he pwnt town after town and he just couldn't understand how people kept rebuilding. He wanted to stop that.
god n. 1. One of the various beings, usu. male, in mythology, primitive religions, etc., conceived of as immortal, as embodying a particular quality or having special powers over some phase of life. 2. A statue, image, or symbol of such a being. 3. Any person or thing much loved.
So, you see? While a god can be an immortal thing, it doesn't have to be. Some myth, religions, what-have-you have immortal gods, some do not. I mean, like Sentenal said, in Norse mythos the gods die. And heck, just look at some of the names in the Final Fantasy series. Ragnarok anyone?
Also, Kuja was just a sad first born who was upset that the new baby got so much attention. :P Total whiner.
"I'm not happy! So I'm going to take it out on the world by destroying everything! Boohoo!"
:lol: Heh heh, jk I dunno how accurate that is...It's been a while since I played FFIX and the end parts are fuzzy...
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Its been a while for me too, i just remember it like that, coz i remember final fantasy 9 as being the most beautiful of them all.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/review/R37603.html-This guy sucks
Final Fantasy 9 reminds me heaps of Final Fantasy 6:
Kuja=Kefka-Both psychopathic wierdos who go against the emperor(ress)(i didnt know that because i hadnt finished 6 yet. Thanx for spoiling it guys)
The queen=Gestahl-Both have a sorcerer aide who betrays them
zidane=terra-they both have a hidden past, but thats ff for ya
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ONLY THE ORCHESTRATED VERSION
True dat. The vocals are good on the PSX version. Everything else is horrendous once you've heard the orchestrated version.
Alright I dunno how well the spell comparisons are since Magic is so downplayed in VII, but let's split the difference then...how about compared to the damage that Leo was dealing out w/Shock & the almighty Gengi Glove+Offering (not to mention w/e sword he had...what was it anyway? i don't remember) combo? That was round after round and in the end Leo was just, like, hitting his shadow. Kefka pwnt Leo.
Yeah, he did do a goodly bit of damage, but he never hit as hard as the Bum Rush or Ultima.
And yeah, Magic is pretty downplayed in VII, except if you've got an obscenely high Magic stat.
"I'm not happy! So I'm going to take it out on the world by destroying everything! Boohoo!"
:lol: Heh heh, jk I dunno how accurate that is...It's been a while since I played FFIX and the end parts are fuzzy...
Add in something about an overgrown Yoda destroying the universe while spewing backwards grammar and you've pretty much got it.
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Also, Kuja was just a sad first born who was upset that the new baby got so much attention. :P Total whiner.
"I'm not happy! So I'm going to take it out on the world by destroying everything! Boohoo!"
:lol: Heh heh, jk I dunno how accurate that is...It's been a while since I played FFIX and the end parts are fuzzy...
As I recall, it wasn't until he learned that he was going to die -- and pretty soon at that -- that Kuja decided to take out both Terra and Gaia. I seem to remember a quote along the lines of "Why should the world go on if I'm going to die" or something like that. I really need to play closer attention when i get around to FF IX on my 'One Gamers Journey' experiment.
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ONE WINGED ANGEL RULES
It's unlistenable after you've heard it live.
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Man I love that song!
EDIT: Here, I found it! Doesn't have the singing in it though.
One Winged Angel (http://www.vgmusic.com/music/console/sony/ps1/onewing.mid)
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I have the AC version of it, which means I own.
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I heard the AC version on an online radio station (Radio KOL) the other day...very nice indeed :D .
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Also, Bizarro Sephiroth's Theme was good too.
EDIT: If you want the translation to One Winged Angel, here is a website that has it.
Lyrics (http://www.fflyrics.com/basement.html)
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Cool , thanks.
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Cool , thanks.
You're welcome.
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what 'bout that ff8 song, liberi fatalis
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FF8=crap.
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FF8=crap.
No, you're wrong,
FF8<crap
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I'll believe it when I play it. The FF8 hate sounds strangely like Cross hate in its expression.
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I'll believe it when I play it. The FF8 hate sounds strangely like Cross hate in its expression.
I downloaded the PC demo, and decided NOT to buy it based on that. When the DEMO (which is supposed to make you LIKE the game) gives a bad feeling, then that's a REALLY bad sign. In addition, a friend at school had it, and said "I have to finish to see what happens, but I won't play it again."
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FF8=crap.
No, you're wrong,
FF8<crap
Wow, what a great way to make a point, both of you. Care to provide reasons why it's so bad? I personally never played the game, yet I could say the same exact thing, for all the information you're providing.
I second Zeality's statement. "I'll believe it when I see it."
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From what I dug up without spoilers, it's just the gameplay. More Cross-like echoes.
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8 is cool... and i actually like the game playe pretty much, the gf/hability system, the "job" system and stuff... pretty different from other ff's, and different things rule :lol: about the storyline, i have to say that i dont actually remember it very well... played it a long time ago with a friend o mine disks, and my english understanding, overall, sucked at that time :roll: but for what i remember, the story gave me a pretty good feeling... and i can't really compare it with like ff7 that i OMFG love becuz they are just TOO different... so i'd just say it's a pretty fun game XD one worth having :) (even if i don't hahahaha)
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You're right, Zeality. FF8 was fantastic.
*sigh* I hate talking about Final Fantasys because there's just so much crap involved with peoples opinions it drives me nuts, but I might as well get this out of my system now and never speak of it again (ha, likely) =p
Ok, my first Final Fantasy was the very first one: FF1 on the NES. I own a fucking copy, and it's a kick-ass game. Hard, long, kinda boring and drawn-out with the much needed level-up times, and no story-line or character development whatsoever...but for whatever reasons it's got this flare that nothing else has, which is why I love it.
FF2 and FF3 were too shitty for me to even try playing past a few hours, and those were painful hours. Maybe someday I'll play through farther so I can finally say I've played them all the way through.
FF4 is amazing...but I have a hard time playing it through all the way because the gameplay bores me. The story is amazing, the character development is wonderful...really it's the first game of its kind of depth, and it's wonderful. I need to play a SNES version that fixes the awful load times on the PSX and allows me to run, which the PSX version did fix...but...agh.
FF5 is...agh, I have mixed feelings. I hate the job system because it takes way too long to level everything up, and being a perfectionist (to a degree), this becomes a pain in the ass. I love everything else about this game. The music (which was actually engineered by Mr. Mitsuda, go figure) is some of the best in the series, the story is sweet, the world is pretty...yea. FF5 would be one of my favorites if not for the stupid job system.
FF6...good god. This game is the best Final Fantasy for every reason that exists. In every way. 'Nuff said.
FF7 is a good game, it really is. I don't agree with the multitude of hype associated with it, mostly since the in-game graphics have ALWAYS made me wanna puke (even when it was brand new, it was...yuck) and the sound quality was even worse, but FF7 is quite a good game.
FF8 is awesome, better than 7 in everyway except story, honestly.
FF9 was my favorite for the longest time until I once again realized how perfect 6 is. 9's problem is its short length, and the Trance system is flawed, plus the ending with Kuja and Necro is...eck. But 9 is my second favorite.
I hated FFX. Great story, graphics and music, great characters with great acting (except for the terrible acting done for Tidus and Yuna...ugh). I hate the gameplay in X. It's just...awful. I can't play the game without cheating, and even then it's too much a pain in the ass to really enjoy it. X-2 is pretty good, much improved and quite possibly the best ATB system ever, but...it's too...I dunno, isn't really worthy of being called a full-feature game.
I refuse to play online games, so I automatically dislike FFXI. The best thing about the FFs is their storyline and character development, and FFXI has none. 'Nuff said.
Ok, I'm done with listing my opinions.
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I think I've given my critque of FF8 before, but if not, I'll give it agian.
I'll start by saying that I really enjoyed the first part of the game.
Now, we move on to why I don't like it. Lets start with characters. It seems like every character in the game was given some social disorder. Squall is an anti-social despression, Rinoa is an over-hyper monster, Selphie is too cheerful, Zell is a wuss. Irivine is a "cowboy". The only character that doesn't really have a social disorder is Quistis. Laguna is alight though, I guess. Meh, to awkward with him some times though, and his group seemed to be bumbling idiots.
Next is story, don't read if you don't want spoilers.
Story was good at the start. A mercenary group, fighting in battles. Then we move past that. Story is decent most of the game. Its the story between characters that sucks. There is the super awkward Squall-Rinoa thing going on. Half way through the game, guess what! You find out that every one of your characters grew up together, and didn't even remmber each other, and all winded back up together! What a coincidence! Lame. The whole time compression thing at the end was confusing too. But overall, the story is passible.
End spoilers, for now.
We move on to gameplay. The draw and junctioning system. This effectively punishing you for using magic, and at the same time makes the game super easy. The draw system makes magic into items. You have limited amounts of them. The junctioning system punishes you for using them. You see, the game encourages you to add the magic to your stats, thereby giving them stat boosts. A good thing, right? No. Firstly, it lets you beef up your characters way past where they are supposed to be. Makes it too easy. Secondly if you actually do you your magic, it takes away the stats you built up.
Now, even with the beefed up stats, we have another toy. GFs. They are nessisary. Basically, later in the game, you become dependant on these. Summoning and summoning. And it takes forever for their animation to get done. Dependancy on GFs is a bad thing for gameplay.
Zeality, let me assure you the debate on FF8's quality, and the debate on Chrono Cross's quality are much different. People who don't like CC don't like it because its not CT2. While it may be somewhat similar in the FF8 case, FF8 is a love it or hate it game. Its not because people want it to be FF7-2. Its because, well, what I said above.
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Well, I dunno Sentenal. I think loads of people who dislike 8 dislike it because it's not FF7-2, actually, more than you've given credit. That's been the case for most people I've asked. It is the sad truth that most peoples first RPG was FF7. That made it the best in their mind (we humans are typically strange that way), and anything else wasn't as good. When FF8 was drastically different, that turned off LOADS of FF7 fans, and that's the simple truth.
Yes there are plenty of people who don't like 8 as much as the others for legit reasons, but really it's one of the best games out there. Whether you like it or not is all taste.
That's a pretty universal truth actually, one I realized not too long ago: just cuz I don't like it doesn't mean it isn't good =p
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In most cases, I would agree, but not in this one. I think that non-RE4 Resident Evil games are good, although I won't touch it because of controls. But I will not acknowledge that FF8 is good.
And I didn't play FF7 for the longest time, I've always been an SNES rpg man. I dislike it because of the reasons above.
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Aside from the amnesia thing, I don't have a problem with the story of VIII. The battle system was quite simply too different. The problem isn't that the battle system wasn't FFVII-2; it's that the battle system sucked. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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Oops, didn't log in. Thought I told this bloody thing to log me in on every visit.
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Your stats were always crap if you didn't junction magic, and if you used magic, you lost points on your stats!
When I fought Ultimecia, she blew alway some of my magic which was junctioned to Quistis' HP, droping it from 9999 to 4520. I am not kidding! God that was the worst thing that ever happened.
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I liked the system in FF8. It doesn't take more than a day or two to get completely levelled up and totally junctioned with the best magic for all your characters, so that you don't have to use any magic except for the fight against Omega Weapon...although Aura makes the fight against Ultimecia much faster, as long as you have Lionheart with you. Gold is never a problem, getting cards can be rather helpful, getting GFs Abilities levelled up on Cactuar Island really is quite fun...*sigh*...
Dude, how can you guys not like FF8? It's brilliant.
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FF8 s brilliant, one of those "best games youve never played" things, fully underrated because some people though FF7 was the sex. FF8 included brilliant character development, not just for villains but for the protagonists, a unique (but annoying) end boss battle. About the great character development, yes they were stereotype, but that is what added to the charm. And the battle engine is as unique as...FFx2! (only good thing about ffx2 was the engine, save for the skimpy outfits :P )
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What? I like FFVIII, but there was hardly any character development for any of the characters outside of maybe Squall, Rinoa and uh...that guy...in the flashbacks (yeah, it's been a while and I'm bad w/names)...
Anyways...I hate how people say that FFVIII 'punishes' you for using Magic. I mean, that's like saying you're being punished in Chrono Trigger if you only use Cyclone and no other Techs period. It's not the game's fault if you're playing it wrong. >_>
The storyline was okay, but it felt a bit rushed. One of the best FF endings though. The game was like a good movie...but it was like a Hollywood movie. Perhaps they were trying to acquire a bigger girl-fanbase (which they managed as far as I saw) w/the heavy focus on the love story and I don't mind that...But w/Squall's 180 akin to Cecil, I just didn't like it as much as I could have. There just wasn't enough character development...I think Irvine could have been a really good character if they had bothered to develop him at all...
Plus, the card game wasn't completely random and the cards were actually useful! Go Gilgamesh card! I probably wouldn't have beat the game as easily w/o you! Ah, Holy Wars...^_^
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...I think Irvine could have been a really good character if they had bothered to develop him at all...
No, dont say that! Square Enix might here you and make a FF8: Return of Irvine as a vampire cyborg ninja pirate...JEDI!
And yeah, FF8 was the full on emo ff, and most guys i know dont like it, yet most girls do >.>
And Mystic3eb (i think) FF9 is not short if you play the *shudder* Chocobo sidequest and get every item from it. Ragnarok=Shock=9999
Oh, and Sentenal, the long GF animation helps with Boost, but i agree it gets very tedious
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What? I like FFVIII, but there was hardly any character development for any of the characters outside of maybe Squall, Rinoa and uh...that guy...in the flashbacks (yeah, it's been a while and I'm bad w/names)...
Anyways...I hate how people say that FFVIII 'punishes' you for using Magic. I mean, that's like saying you're being punished in Chrono Trigger if you only use Cyclone and no other Techs period. It's not the game's fault if you're playing it wrong. >_>
The storyline was okay, but it felt a bit rushed. One of the best FF endings though. The game was like a good movie...but it was like a Hollywood movie. Perhaps they were trying to acquire a bigger girl-fanbase (which they managed as far as I saw) w/the heavy focus on the love story and I don't mind that...But w/Squall's 180 akin to Cecil, I just didn't like it as much as I could have. There just wasn't enough character development...I think Irvine could have been a really good character if they had bothered to develop him at all...
Plus, the card game wasn't completely random and the cards were actually useful! Go Gilgamesh card! I probably wouldn't have beat the game as easily w/o you! Ah, Holy Wars...^_^
Your points are exactly what make FF8 not one of the best Final Fantasys, for me.
And Mystic3eb (i think) FF9 is not short if you play the *shudder* Chocobo sidequest and get every item from it. Ragnarok=Shock=9999
Oh I did, every single time. Goddamn that Chocobo game was so much fun. I could play that game all day long. That was the best Chocobo Side Quest in all those games, though the gifts weren't quite as rewarding as 7.
That would've been another of 8s weaknesses, their Chocobo system was too short, too boring, and not beneficial enough (except for finding the Ragnarok in Disc 4, which is nigh-on pointless aside from leveling up on the 'Islands').
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I don't even remember the Chocobos in VIII...>_> I remember the mostly useless cars though...
I don't remember FFIX being short...I mean, there was so much character development going on, maybe I just got lost in how great it was to fixate on the time that was passing?
Oh yeah and Chocobo Hot & Cold is byfar the best sidequest of all the FFs. Chocobo Racing/Breeding in VII was boring as all get-out. VIII's card game kicked IX's card game's ass. I still like IX more, but VIII's not far behind because I liked the story and the few characters that are developed are developed well. But Tactics rulz dem all!!! ;)
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I suppose FF Lists are in order. Here's mine:
14: FF3
13: FF2
12: FFXI
11: FFX
10: FF Tactics
9: FFMQ
8: FFX-2
7: FF5
6: FF7
5: FF8
4: FF4
3: FF1
2: FF9
1: FF6
I hated Tactics. Shining Force is a far superior game of that format. Go play that instead =p Hell even Bahamut Lagoon is better, especially now that it's been translated...
...I forgot about that...now I can play it for more than a couple incoherent hours! Sweet!
...now I gotta find a translated version/patch. >_<
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I like the Shining Force games...But I find them to be far too simplistic SRPGs...They're more like beginner SRPGs. The Fire Emblem games are better than the Shining Force games. Bahamut Lagoon's dragon breeding system bored me to tears, but it was a good game...average SRPG fighting system.
There was just so much you could do w/Tactics. It really was a Strategy Role Playing Game. And the story was immense and awesome! Great game. Best newschool (post-16 bit :P) RPG I've played.
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I haven't played Fire Emblem yet...I should.
I haven't played any of the Shining Force games after II (well, III a bit; I need to finish that), but the story in II was amazing to me. I've never had so much playing a game. Plus the music was awesome. The first one was more beginner (though maybe harder, admittedly) to me...it just didn't have as much substance and story/dialogue.
God, Genesis had some of the best RPGs. The Phantasy Stars were amazing, and Landstalker has gotta be one of the best games ever. *sigh* Nostalgia comes in pints, these days.
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Yes you should play FFVII, I also think you should play FFVIII, both are really great games with really great story lines.
I haven't played Fire Emblem yet...I should.
Yes you should, go play it now...NOW! :-p
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If you're looking for something fun on the GBA, I suggest the Golden Sun series. The FE series is great too.
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FE?
I started Golden Sun, but just couldn't get into it...the GBA has given far too few good games for my taste, at least to spend money on. I'm having the same feelings for the DS. I dunno, the whole handheld thing feels like more of an insult to video gaming than a new way to play games.
I guess I haven't owned a GBA SP, so I can't really be too pessimistic. My biggest problem with the GBA (besides sucky library) was its lack of backlighting, making it virtually impossible to see the games being played. With the introduction of backlighting, I decided it wouldn't be so bad.
I tried playing a DS, I really did. I hated it, it was too hard to move around with that stupid touch-sensitive pad, arg.
People say it's nice to have a game to travel with. I say read a book =p
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Hmm...not liking Golden Sun much, eh? Well, I found it positively orga-addictive when I played through, but to each his own. It does get interesting and in my opinion, "better," as it progresses, so don't give up yet.
(FE = Fire Emblem, for those budgeting time off of a school computer >_>.)
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Hmm...not liking Golden Sun much, eh? Well, I found it positively orga-addictive when I played through, but to each his own. It does get interesting and in my opinion, "better," as it progresses, so don't give up yet.
(FE = Fire Emblem, for those budgeting time off of a school computer >_>.)
Oh...durr...>_<
No, I've heard tons of good things about both, so I really should play them both again, and I will when I get sick of the Chrono games (I haven't played either in about a year, and now that I started both again AND found the Compendium all within a week of each other...my obsession has only grown on itself).
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Fire Emblem is good. If you are able to someway find a Fire Emblem 6 rom (I will not help you find one), I can direct you to a translation patch for it. BTW, mods, the translation is not illegal to have, the ROM is. >(
FE6 was the only with Roy in it, and so far, its my favorite.
And see what I mean about FF8 being a love it or hate it game? It still sucks, so don't believe those guys trying to trick you :)
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The new fire emblem looks sweet. I was never for portable gaming, yet the psp looks good. If you have seen some of the guys in my class, you would hate it as well. They play it all the time, they are those that play during class, and those that play magic cards all the time at lunch, and those that only venture outside to play handball (not european type) and never play out school competition sport thing, but just play softball so they can play their computer games all day on saturday while we are sweating it out on the field. *pants* yes, well...snes for me ^_^
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I think the GBA has a great lineup...especially RPGs...
Advance Wars (I hear good things but have yet to play)
Ports of BoF 1 & 2
FF: DoS
FFTA
2 FE games
Golden Sun
KH: CoM (if that's your thing...>_>)
The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap
Lufia: The Ruins of Lore
Lunar Legend (for those of us who didn't catch Silver Star on PSX)
Pokemon: Fire Red & Leaf Green
Pokemon: Ruby, Sapphire, & Emerald
Riviera: The Promised Land
Sword of Mana
That's not including all of the other great remakes and ports of older games like River City Ransom, R-Type III, The Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past & Four Swords and Metroid. Then there's Metroid: Fusion and all of the Megaman games (two series: Battle Network & Zero).
AND it can play all of the previous Gameboy games and their many incarnations. That's one pretty kick ass handheld.
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It is, but i just dont want to get "too" involved. Plus, i like stuff BIG! I was playing ff tactics on me friends gameboy, after i played it on pc, and i was like, woah, what the hell?!
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I won't play portable games unless it's on the computer with a much bigger screen. I agree, I like my games big.
I've never had any desire to own a portable system. Ever. The only time I really really wanted one was when my uncle let me play Link's Awakening...oh god, did that game make me excited.
...well...that and Wario Land.
The BoF remakes aren't as good as the originals.
I tried Advance Wars, it was boring.
You'd have a tough time getting me to play any handheld FF after the Legends games, especially these FFs that aren't even made by the same people.
I already disliked the original Tactics, I'm not sure why I'd like it's remake...
I'm trying to get into Golden Suns and FE, I'll get back to you on those.
Yeah, KH doesn't look good to me at all.
The Minish Cap was an excellent game, a typical Zelda, I'll give you that.
I haven't played Lufia yet, hell I didn't even know it existed. I had a hard time getting into the first Lufia on SNES but I breezed through the second one, it was so fun.
I loved Lunar on PSX, but I wouldn't trade the big screen for the small/worse graphics any day.
I. Hate. Pokemon.
What the hell is Riviera?
I need to play Sword of Mana. Anything Mana in my mind needs to be played, lol.
The only remake I played that was worth it was the Metroid one, that remake was amazing. Both Metroids were amazing, but I wouldn't wanna play them on a tiny portable =p I got sick of Mega Man games a long long time ago. The Mario games are nothing new, the Sonic games just aren't as good as the originals, and I couldn't get into the Mario RPG game. Had potential, but graphic-wise it was hideous, the gameplay wasn't phenomenal, the music was sub-par, and I couldn't get into it enough to get into the story at all. Bleh.
I'm with BZ, I'm a SNES boy.
And I refuse to give in to your claims, Sentenal! I shall fight this fight to the bitter end! Hah!
But seriously, I hate almost all FPSs, doesn't mean they're necessarily bad games. I just hate them. Alot. Same with fighting games and racing games.
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The BoF remakes aren't as good as the originals.
But they weren't remakes...they were ports...>_>
You'd have a tough time getting me to play any handheld FF after the Legends games, especially these FFs that aren't even made by the same people.
How very close-minded of you. Plus, the Legend games weren't FFs they are a part of the SaGa series (better than SaGa Frontier at least! :P).
If you liked Rise of the Sinistrals, you'll like Ruins of Lore. The dungeon's back even!
I think that the Pokemon games are very decent RPGs. I honestly don't understand any hate towards the game. Dislike I could see...but hate? The only bad thing I've found is that they're addicting and a little difficult...But I guess it depends on how you play...and which series of them you play...
What the hell is Riviera?
A really great, innovative lil RPG from Atlus (the company that published the Tactics Ogre series and the Shin Megami Tensei series [minus the first two Namco games which were based on books] and recently the game Disgaea) that seems to have flown under the radar for no good reason at all...
Here's a pretty good description of Riviera (http://www.atlus.com/riviera/)
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The BoF remakes aren't as good as the originals.
But they weren't remakes...they were ports...>_>
...oh...right, sorry. That's what I meant, then o_O I have no reason to want a port if I can play the original, especially when they did little to nothing to change and improve them.
If you liked Rise of the Sinistrals, you'll like Ruins of Lore. The dungeon's back even!
I didn't really care for those kinda dungeons, but I did love that game, so I'll definetely try it out.
I think that the Pokemon games are very decent RPGs. I honestly don't understand any hate towards the game. Dislike I could see...but hate? The only bad thing I've found is that they're addicting and a little difficult...But I guess it depends on how you play...and which series of them you play...
I disliked Pokemon. I played the games before they became popular, and I already didn't like them. They've always been an insult to the genre in my opinion. Then the hype began, and my hatred was born. I've since tried them again, with help, even, from a friend who is sadly very much into it, and I still found nothing worth enjoying about it. The only sense it has of 'RPG' is leveling up and having a world to travel around; yes, some Pokemon gain abilities that let you travel around easier and get past certain points similar to Zelda, but...no, a real RPG needs deep plot and character development. Pokemon has neither to any extent.
What the hell is Riviera?
A really great, innovative lil RPG from Atlus (the company that published the Tactics Ogre series and the Shin Megami Tensei series [minus the first two Namco games which were based on books] and recently the game Disgaea) that seems to have flown under the radar for no good reason at all...
Here's a pretty good description of Riviera (http://www.atlus.com/riviera/)
I didn't like Tactics Ogre. I'm not a fan of those games. So if you're saying this is kinda like Ogre Battle or whatever, then...I'll pass.
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No, it's not an SRPG...Those are just some other titles that Atlus has published...I was mentioning them in case people were unfamiliar w/Atlus (which seems rediculous to me, but I was born in a generation that was still infatuated w/the arcade at least somewhat). So no, it's not like Tactics Ogre...As a matter of fact, some of Riviera's features are unlike any RPG I've ever played...
And man, seriously, you come off very close-minded...Don't tell me you're one of those whakky Earthbound haters too! :(
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Actually, Earthbound is one of my favorite games of all time. But I suppose I'll try Riviera now, too.
I'm not all that closedminded, it just takes alot in a game to get me interested.
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Sentenal, I still see no reason WHY FF8 is so bad...unless somebody posted in the previous page and I missed it...Zeality made an interesting point, but he hasn't played it yet, and I'm assuming you've made a full playthrough of the game, if you're making such claims...
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Did you not read my entire take on FF8? Gameplay is inferior, storyline goes into the crapper. I really don't want to give a full critique of it, because people here havn't played it.
But let me say this; I'm an RPG fan. Its my favorite Genre. When I get my hands on a new RPG, if its worth finishing, I finish it. Well, at least since I got to middle school and after (because in my elementary school days, I got to the end of FF6, and stopped! I've beaten it since, however). My first play through of FF8 I stopped halfway, not having any desire to play it. I eventually decided to give it the benifit of the doubt, and try it out agian (I even bought the PSX disk for it this time), and got to the point of no return in the game, and didn't have any desire to finish it. That is bad for a RPG.
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Did you take advantage of the Junction system? Cuz that was probably one of the most brilliant systems ever. Being able to junction status and elemental effects to your attack and defense was so awesome. Ever tried junctioning 100 Deaths to your attack? Instant kill to most enemies? Yeah.
Also I tend to find out more and more of the world each time I play, there are plenty of little secrets here and there. Like the Old Fisherman when you first crash in FH. Do the right things and you'll suddenly learn a whole history about FH, and it's rather interesting.
I dunno, it's not the greatest, but it really is quality. I guess you just don't appreciate it.
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.. Yeah, I see its blantantly obvious that no one read my take on FF8.
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.. Yeah, I see its blantantly obvious that no one read my take on FF8.
We did, and find it to only be an opinion. There's a difference between opinion and fact.
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Did you take advantage of the Junction system?
You asked that. I directly addressed my take on Junctioning in my critque, and yet you asked me if I took advantage of it. Yes, I did, made the game way too easy. Read my critque.
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I'm sorry, you're right. Here, I'll take your review and look at it up close.
I think I've given my critque of FF8 before, but if not, I'll give it agian.
I'll start by saying that I really enjoyed the first part of the game.
Now, we move on to why I don't like it. Lets start with characters. It seems like every character in the game was given some social disorder. Squall is an anti-social despression, Rinoa is an over-hyper monster, Selphie is too cheerful, Zell is a wuss. Irivine is a "cowboy". The only character that doesn't really have a social disorder is Quistis. Laguna is alight though, I guess. Meh, to awkward with him some times though, and his group seemed to be bumbling idiots.
Actually, Quistis' problem was that she was unfit to be a teacher, and Laguna was definetely not suave or good with words or great with people. It's not a "social disorder" or whatever, it's a character trait, a realistic chracter trait that defines their weakness, makes them human. And with each weakness they have, they have something else about them that equals the balance. It's quite well done, actually.
Next is story, don't read if you don't want spoilers.
Story was good at the start. A mercenary group, fighting in battles. Then we move past that. Story is decent most of the game. Its the story between characters that sucks. There is the super awkward Squall-Rinoa thing going on. Half way through the game, guess what! You find out that every one of your characters grew up together, and didn't even remmber each other, and all winded back up together! What a coincidence! Lame. The whole time compression thing at the end was confusing too. But overall, the story is passible.
End spoilers, for now.
Have you ever been in a situation like Squall and Rinoa? If you had, you'd understand that it is awkward. I rather appreciated it because it's very accurately protrayed.
And man, I thought the growing up together thing was awesome. You thought it was lame. Well, that's opinion.
Also if you play it more than once, the Time Compression thing makes more sense. I was confused my first time through, too.
We move on to gameplay. The draw and junctioning system. This effectively punishing you for using magic, and at the same time makes the game super easy. The draw system makes magic into items. You have limited amounts of them. The junctioning system punishes you for using them. You see, the game encourages you to add the magic to your stats, thereby giving them stat boosts. A good thing, right? No. Firstly, it lets you beef up your characters way past where they are supposed to be. Makes it too easy. Secondly if you actually do you your magic, it takes away the stats you built up.
Uhm...I don't see it as any more beefing than the materia usage in FF7, and it's actually easier to beef this up than 8, where you have to make the effort to find and draw magic. Plus if you don't junction at all, you're characters are rather weak, so it's almost necessary to do some amount of junctioning. The balance makes perfect sense to me, it doesn't make your characters all that ultra-powerful. That comes with leveling up enough, like any good RPG.
Now, even with the beefed up stats, we have another toy. GFs. They are nessisary. Basically, later in the game, you become dependant on these. Summoning and summoning. And it takes forever for their animation to get done. Dependancy on GFs is a bad thing for gameplay.
The length is obnoxious, yes, unless you're good at boosting, which is rather handy if you ARE good at it and don't get uber tired doing it all the time. But no, you don't become totally dependent on them, especially if you level up enough. I never have, at least. Except for Omega Weapon and Krysta in Ultimecia's Castle. And a few other boss battles earlier in the game. I really can't agree with this statement.
Zeality, let me assure you the debate on FF8's quality, and the debate on Chrono Cross's quality are much different. People who don't like CC don't like it because its not CT2. While it may be somewhat similar in the FF8 case, FF8 is a love it or hate it game. Its not because people want it to be FF7-2. Its because, well, what I said above.
You are right about the love it-hate it thing, absolutely. But the reasoning behind whether you love it or hate it DOES have ALOT to do with people having played FF7 before it (AND FF7 was their first RPG, in most cases) and judging it accordingly.
As I said, it's all opinion.
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Firstly, no, the characters replaced traits with social disorders, story felt half-assed. Now, on to gamplay agian.
In FF7, Materia was primarily used a magic, then stats. In this Magic is now used nearly exclusivly for stats. You would be crazy to go around casting magic, unless you really, really need to. And being able to go fight a single group of enemies, sit there and draw for an hour, then find another one and repeat, till you get max of each spell to junction to overpower your characters, yes, it does make it too easy.
And guess which game I played first: Final Fantasy 7 or Final Fantasy 8.
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Firstly, no, the characters replaced traits with social disorders, story felt half-assed.
Bah, I think you're the kinda gamer who'd rather play a game where the characters are all-around perfect, except for one or two major qualities that are obviously bad and need improvement, instead of people with realistic character traits. Seriously, everyone knows people like the characters in FF8 in real life.
And the story didn't feel half-assed to me.
In FF7, Materia was primarily used a magic, then stats. In this Magic is now used nearly exclusivly for stats. You would be crazy to go around casting magic, unless you really, really need to. And being able to go fight a single group of enemies, sit there and draw for an hour, then find another one and repeat, till you get max of each spell to junction to overpower your characters, yes, it does make it too easy.
I was talking about the HP/MP/Luck Plus materia. Makes a big difference in the game without leveling up. Besides, for me I never cast magic in either game when I've leveled up to the point where all I ever need is to simply hold the confirm button and attack, except for some boss fights where the most I use magic wise is Revive or Cure or maybe Barrier/Wall.
And it takes a long-ass time to stock magic, especially good magic, unless you have a high Magic stat, which most characters can't attain until you A) have enough GFs to actually junction to the Magic stat and B) have good enough magic to stock well. I spend about as much time stocking magic in FF8 as I do getting all the characters Limit Breaks in FF7 and getting their ultimate limits/weapons.
And guess which game I played first: Final Fantasy 7 or Final Fantasy 8.
Why is that important? I didn't say it was always the case, just quite often the case. I know there are exceptions.
Really, I think opinions of games depend on playing style. I would say your playing style doesn't fit with FF8.
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No, I wouldn't want to play a game where the characters are all around perfect. But giving them lame social disorders just to make them obnoxious is not a good way to make a character.
Its easy to stock up on magic! You get into a battle, and you sit there, drawing, till you can draw no more. Repeat with other enemies for other spells.
And even with the HP/MP materia in FF7, the game never was too easy. Doing what I described above lets you tank all your characters to breeze through all normal enemies, and then if you get to a harder boss, GF GF GF.
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As I said, we must have different play styles. FF7 is ridiculously easy for me and takes far less time than FF8 does, and I do about the same stuff to level up and always do all the side quests and fight all the 'ultimate/impossible' bosses.
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Atlus is gold. I havent played any of their games...but Shin Megami Tensei and Persona look awesome, and the cover with the woman in it for Pro Fishing Challenge made it awesome too :P
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Half way through the game, guess what! You find out that every one of your characters grew up together, and didn't even remmber each other, and all winded back up together! What a coincidence! Lame.
I agree that it was pretty lame, but I think the explaination, the use of the GFs for their memory loss was pretty neat and almost made up for said lameness...almost...>_>
Well, that's opinion.
This is byfar one of the stupidest and most redundant things a person can say, with the slight exception of someone pointing out that it's stupid and redundant. Pet peeve. :wink:
Seriously, everyone knows people like the characters in FF8 in real life.
I don't know anyone as annoying as Selphie or Zell nor do I know anyone as hollow as Irvine (much less most of the cast itself)...Different circles I guess?
The Junction System is near outlandishly easy. It requires minimal thought to become godlike in power. Personally, I don't see this as a bad thing, but I can obviously see how people could. I mean, Drawing becomes boring, but it's no different than the leveling up in other RPGs. Not every godly Materia combination in FFVII was obvious, much less as easy to get as Drawing Magic in VIII...But I always saw the Materia system as an obsolete, inpersonal, Esper system myself...
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Anyone In The Entire World Who Ever Says This wrote:
Well, that's opinion.
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=boiling_blood
I hated the GF explanation, it reminded me of when Dumbledore told Harry that he got his powers from when Voldemort shot him. Wouldnt it be cooler if Harry was to be evil like Voldemort, but when Voldemort sensed that Harry was becoming good he decided to kill him. Instead, the story was, you were normal, and then Voldemort accidentally gave powers to you, and now you can speak to snakes.
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(http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/opinion1.gif)
This one pisses me off just thinking about it. If you slit my throat right now you'd get shot in the eye with boiling blood. Any time you say something sucks around someone who disagrees, they try to validate their taste in shitty music/movies/clothing by reminding you that you still only speak for yourself, as if their opinions are in jeopardy of being monopolized by your own. Everyone already knows it's my opinion by virtue of the fact that I said it, no need to restate the obvious you dopey twat.
Thank you Burning Zeppelin, I've been looking (ok, i admit, i'm lazy and didn't look at all...>_>) for that article for ages!
I hated the GF explanation, it reminded me of when Dumbledore told Harry that he got his powers from when Voldemort shot him. Wouldnt it be cooler if Harry was to be evil like Voldemort, but when Voldemort sensed that Harry was becoming good he decided to kill him. Instead, the story was, you were normal, and then Voldemort accidentally gave powers to you, and now you can speak to snakes.
Wow, that was so much HP nerdism that I don't know what to do...I need to get to a library and try the books, I guess...
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They arent great, i just stated it because we had to watch it for english :shock:
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Well, that's opinion.
This is byfar one of the stupidest and most redundant things a person can say, with the slight exception of someone pointing out that it's stupid and redundant. Pet peeve. :wink:
...er...ok. Sure.
Seriously, everyone knows people like the characters in FF8 in real life.
I don't know anyone as annoying as Selphie or Zell nor do I know anyone as hollow as Irvine (much less most of the cast itself)...Different circles I guess?
I could name someone similar to each character in FF8 that I know personally. Different circle? Yeah, I suppose so.
The Junction System is near outlandishly easy. It requires minimal thought to become godlike in power. Personally, I don't see this as a bad thing, but I can obviously see how people could. I mean, Drawing becomes boring, but it's no different than the leveling up in other RPGs. Not every godly Materia combination in FFVII was obvious, much less as easy to get as Drawing Magic in VIII...But I always saw the Materia system as an obsolete, inpersonal, Esper system myself...
The Esper system is bar none my favorite =)
The thing I liked bout the the Junction system is...the games explanations, tutorials and everything, didn't help me for shit. I still didn't understand what the hell they were talking about, and didn't figure out what the hell Junctioning even was. At some point, I finally figured it out, on my own it seemed, and maybe that made the Junctioning system special to me because I felt so smart...lol, I dunno.
But anyway, the "opinion" comment may rub you the wrong way, but I need to clarify that that truly is the case when he's blatantly stating that something is a fact when it's really not.
Can I tell you, I used to absolutely hate FF7 in the worst way? To me, everything about it was flawed, fake and weak. And I told everyone it was a fact and they were simply enjoying their first experience of an RPG, and didn't know anything about what constituted a good game. I realized after a while that I was going around saying that crap only because I was sick and tired of seeing all the major support for FF7 and no other good RPGs. I always get sick of tired of things that get tons of hype. Well, almost. I still love Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings =p But anyway, I realized that I fell into my weakness of going against the overwhelming majority so I could, per say, "stand out" for whatever reason, who knows. I played the game again, still hated the graphics and music, but realized how much I loved the story and most the gameplay, and since then I've realized the difference between opinion and fact.
Ok ok, so are there any truly bad games out there that I like? Personally, no. I'm picky about the games I like, though. I guess I have to admit I did like Boogerman, Bubsy, and some other terrible platformers when I was young, but nowadays I don't play games that aren't good quality.
The reason I bring up this whole "even if you don't like it, that doesn't mean it's bad" thing is because I'm sure you can tell the difference between a well-made game and a shitty game that doesn't deserve a second glance. Then there's a difference between how good a game is and how much you like it. I'm sure Halo truly is the best FPS out there, and one of the greatest games ever made. In my opinion, it's only half as great as one of my least favorite RPGs.
Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder.
(And yes, V_T, I did say that just to piss you off :wink: )
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Ok ok, so are there any truly bad games out there that I like?
Yes. FF8.
All of my points agianst FF8 are legitamate, and you pin the characters as being more "real". I'm with V_T. I don't know anyone as obnoxious as Zell or Selphie. And I sure as hell wouldn't like them. Same with people like most of the FF8 characters. Personality disorders != Good characters.
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My siblings are perfect examples. Except my siblings don't have good qualities to balance it out, unfortunetely, like Zell and Selphie do.
*sigh* Anyway, as far as the junction system goes, this is a stupid argument. I find it well balanced, you find it both too powerful and too costly at the same time. There is no point arguing over opinion.
In either case, you sound like someone who hated Secret of Evermore. I don't understand those people.
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I loved Secret of Evermore. Much, much different than FF8. Its battle system was close to Secret of Mana, which is good, and (unlike FF8), you have to use "magic", your Alchemy. My only grip with it is the storyline, which didn't seem to stand out much.
One of the bad things about Secret of Evermore is that it prevented a US release of Secret of Mana 2. Square didn't want to have two competing RPGs being released close to each other in America. And they chose Evermore.
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I loved Secret of Evermore. Much, much different than FF8. Its battle system was close to Secret of Mana, which is good, and (unlike FF8), you have to use "magic", your Alchemy. My only grip with it is the storyline, which didn't seem to stand out much.
One of the bad things about Secret of Evermore is that it prevented a US release of Secret of Mana 2. Square didn't want to have two competing RPGs being released close to each other in America. And they chose Evermore.
Yeah, I just read about that. It's a bummer, but honestly I enjoyed SoE much more than SD3 for whatever reason. I got about halfway through SD3 and just wasn't into it anymore.
Actually SoE's story captivated me more than SoMs did. SoM was...I dunno. I can't explain why, but for whatever reason I got way more into Evermores *shrug*
But I'm glad to hear you have good taste in games. For the most part ;)
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It just proves that I'm objective about RPGs. RPGs that deserve credit, I give it to them. RPGs that don't, I don't give them any credit. FF8 doesn't deserve it.
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It just proves that I'm objective about RPGs. RPGs that deserve credit, I give it to them. RPGs that don't, I don't give them any credit. FF8 doesn't deserve it.
Hey, they worked their asses off and spent a LONG time on that game, they deserve at least some credit, especially the entire graphics department.
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Okay, fine. It looks good for a PS1 game. They should have spend more time on gameplay and story.
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It just proves that I'm objective about RPGs. RPGs that deserve credit, I give it to them. RPGs that don't, I don't give them any credit. FF8 doesn't deserve it.
Hey, they worked their asses off and spent a LONG time on that game, they deserve at least some credit, especially the entire graphics department.
And because of that, Disc 2 of Xenogears was unfinished.
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It just proves that I'm objective about RPGs. RPGs that deserve credit, I give it to them. RPGs that don't, I don't give them any credit. FF8 doesn't deserve it.
Hey, they worked their asses off and spent a LONG time on that game, they deserve at least some credit, especially the entire graphics department.
And because of that, Disc 2 of Xenogears was unfinished.
Uhm...I dunno about that. I don't think it was ever said by them why Disc 2 was the way it was.
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It just proves that I'm objective about RPGs. RPGs that deserve credit, I give it to them. RPGs that don't, I don't give them any credit. FF8 doesn't deserve it.
Hey, they worked their asses off and spent a LONG time on that game, they deserve at least some credit, especially the entire graphics department.
And because of that, Disc 2 of Xenogears was unfinished.
Uhm...I dunno about that. I don't think it was ever said by them why Disc 2 was the way it was.
They took most of the budget from Xenogears and put it towards FF8
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It just proves that I'm objective about RPGs. RPGs that deserve credit, I give it to them. RPGs that don't, I don't give them any credit. FF8 doesn't deserve it.
Hey, they worked their asses off and spent a LONG time on that game, they deserve at least some credit, especially the entire graphics department.
And because of that, Disc 2 of Xenogears was unfinished.
Uhm...I dunno about that. I don't think it was ever said by them why Disc 2 was the way it was.
They took most of the budget from Xenogears and put it towards FF8
Well, it was either that or Disc 2 really was meant to be the way it was...*shrug*...I dunno.
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It just proves that I'm objective about RPGs. RPGs that deserve credit, I give it to them. RPGs that don't, I don't give them any credit. FF8 doesn't deserve it.
Hey, they worked their asses off and spent a LONG time on that game, they deserve at least some credit, especially the entire graphics department.
And because of that, Disc 2 of Xenogears was unfinished.
Uhm...I dunno about that. I don't think it was ever said by them why Disc 2 was the way it was.
They took most of the budget from Xenogears and put it towards FF8
Well, it was either that or Disc 2 really was meant to be the way it was...*shrug*...I dunno.
Read this (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=1397) to get the full story.
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Yeah, it was only a rumor.
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Yeah, it was only a rumor.
Okay, then I guess you win this round.
FF8 still sucks.
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Oh yeah, debating was a boxing match. I forgot...silly me.
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Oh yeah, debating was a boxing match. I forgot...silly me.
LOL :lol:
But the story was based of off romance, it even says it on the back of the case. The big plot twist was them
they all went to the same orphanage
But the only good thing out of it...
Laguna.
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Oh yeah, debating was a boxing match. I forgot...silly me.
LOL :lol:
But the story was based of off romance, it even says it on the back of the case. The big plot twist was them
they all went to the same orphanage
But the only good thing out of it...
Laguna.
I still like it, whether it wasn't as good as the others or not, but I don't like Disc 4 much, except for the ending movie.
Forget Laguna. Moombas, man. Moombas are awesome.
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FF8 was gold. How can you not like it. OK, tell me this, out of the 3D ffs (ff7, ff8, ff9, ffx, ffx2 and ffxi) which ones do you like? (you meaning people who dont like ff8)
plus, the romance part of ff8 was truly beautful, more so then any other game.
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plus, the romance part of ff8 was truly beautful, more so then any other game.
Ok, stop right there. The 'romance part' of FF8 was its worst aspect, which I found particularly disappointing as I am a big romantic and was really looking forward to the love story. I had just gotten married a few months before the game came out, and couldn't wait to see the tried and true tail of an anti-social "self-reliant" teenage boy who thinks he’s got everything figured out until a dark-haired girl whom is his polar opposite comes along and totally screws up his world view for the better. If you turned Squall in to a black guy and took away the GF's that’s basically the story of Mr. and Mrs. Silvercry.
Here come the spoilers!
So imagine my disappointment when, after two discs of Squall treating Rinoa like a mere responsibility at best, and a liability at worse, she falls in a coma and he's suddenly all. "Oh no! I must save her, no matter what it takes, rest of the world be damned!!!" Much like the Orphanage revelation, and the Ultimecia revelation, this smacks of out-of-nowhere-ism, which FF VIII reeks of. There are parts of the game I like. I don’t think it deserves all the crap it gets from people like Sentenal, but this aspect of the storyline was fundamental flawed. Worse Love Story Ever, I had called it once. A few years later I saw Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones, and FFVIII quickly lost that title.
In the many, times I've replayed that game I've tried to find any hint of Squall's feelings for Rinoa prior to her falling after the second battle with Edea, and I've come up with nothing. If anything, he resents eveyone else trying to push them together, and during the festival, he nearly smacks her for being an idiot. By the time they do get around to "admitting" they feel something for one another, I was so jaded by the terrible buildup to that moment, that the whole thing fell flat.
Spoilers End.
So yeah, that’s my take. If anything FF X (which I loathe entirely) had a better love story, the evolving of feelings between Tidus and Yuna were believable. Awkward. Honest. Difficult. Heart-warming then finally heart-breaking. To the point where I could care less about everything else in X-2 (which I also hate) so long as I can get 100% completion and get those two back together where they belong. No, I don’t count that as a Spoiler. What did you think was going to happen with 100% completion? I mean, really.
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FF8 was gold. How can you not like it. OK, tell me this, out of the 3D ffs (ff7, ff8, ff9, ffx, ffx2 and ffxi) which ones do you like? (you meaning people who dont like ff8)
plus, the romance part of ff8 was truly beautful, more so then any other game.
Well, VIII pretty much revolved around the love story (as this was the point)...So if you liked that you probably liked the game, if you didn't, the story kind of falls flat on ya...I was okay w/it...I, like Silvercry mentions, do not like Squall's 180 mid-game.
So, although I don't not like ff8...I must say that both FFTactics and FFIX exceed it in the many ways that matter.
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Squall's turnaround wasn't all-at-once, it was a bit more gradual. He did wanna bring her back, but he wasn't certain why at first. He wasn't sure if it was all because of duty or because of this 'new feeling' called "care"...but yeah, the love story was weak.
...dammit, couldn't they have given Anakin a better actor? His character goes through so much shit that anyone who can convey any sort of passion, pain, or emotion in the slightest would've done a much better job.
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Firstly, I did say I enjoyed the first part of the game, and the graphics were decent for a PSX game, so I'm not saying its the worst thing ever made. And Silvercry is right in most of what he said, other than saying that I give it undeserved crap.
the 3-D Final Fantasy games, in order from best to worst:
FF7, FF9, FF10, FF8, FF10-2. I won't even count FF11.
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the 3-D Final Fantasy games, in order from best to worst:
FF7, FF9, FF10, FF8, FF10-2. I won't even count FF11.
I'm shocked and amazed that you can rate that awful FFX above FF8. Most the complaints you had about 8 were magnified in X, and worse.
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X was awesome as hell, dude. Even Tidus' voice actor was good, no matter what anyone says about him.
The love story between Anakin and Padme is perfectly tenable if you understand why they're acting the way they are, and what happened to bring them to that point. It requires a bit of thought, and not just feeling your way through it like most other love stories. Their story is extremely Shakespearian in its tragedy factor, only it's better because it has explosions and Hayden Christensen gets set on fire.
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The love story between Anakin and Padme is perfectly tenable if you understand why they're acting the way they are, and what happened to bring them to that point. It requires a bit of thought, and not just feeling your way through it like most other love stories.
(I'm so going to regret this, but...)
Please elaborate. I really want to like that aspect of the saga, but have yet to bring myself to because, well, it sucks balls, to put it simply. So if you’ve noticed something that countless millions others have missed, please share it.
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I don't have a problem with it story-wise, it's just horribly acted out and scripted. I mean even Natalie Portman, who's a great actress in other movies, gave a half-assed performance. These things aren't always the fault of the actor/actress, often it's the Director. Hence why George Lucas should no longer write scripts or direct, or at least let the actors handle their roles their own way. Who knows, maybe Hayden Christensen is a better actor than these movies made him out to be?
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Who knows, maybe Hayden Christensen is a better actor than these movies made him out to be?
I doubt it.
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Who knows, maybe Hayden Christensen is a better actor than these movies made him out to be?
I doubt it.
I agree, he has no emotion what so ever. He just drones on and on through the entire movie
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Who knows, maybe Hayden Christensen is a better actor than these movies made him out to be?
I doubt it.
I agree, he has no emotion what so ever. He just drones on and on through the entire movie
I personally thought his performance in Ep. 3 was much improved over his performance in Ep. 2, kinda like Ewan McGregor when comparing Ep. 2 to Ep. 1.
But no, you're probably right =)
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Ewan McGregor is such an amazing actor. I really liked him in Big Fish
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the 3-D Final Fantasy games, in order from best to worst:
FF7, FF9, FF10, FF8, FF10-2. I won't even count FF11.
I'm shocked and amazed that you can rate that awful FFX above FF8. Most the complaints you had about 8 were magnified in X, and worse.
Firstly, its not that hard to get higher than FF8. If you want me to complain about FF10, I will. FF10 had similar character problems to FF8. Titus was a whinny crybaby, and Yuna was so nieve that it was annoying. Rikku was annoying as well. However, unlike FF8, I do like some of the characters in FF10. Auron was awesome, as was Wakka. Lulu was decent. Kimari was... Well, he didn't really have a personality, but he did at least have some moments.
Gameplay was MUCH better than FF8. The turns system allowed for more strategy. Magic was useful. Character roles were slightly more defined for most of the game, as Titus can take out the quick ones, Wakka for air, Auron for the defence ones, Lulu for only-weak-to-magic ones, etc etc. Although you do tend to become dependant on Aeons, at least its funner to use Aeons than GFs.
The romance between Titus and Yuna... Uhh, this was almost as bad as Squall-Rinoa. I liked the consept of Sin, and the things surrounding that, although I didn't like Seymour. I didn't like Titus being a damn crybaby through out the game. I'm mixed on its storyline.
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I have to disagree with you entirely on the gameplay issue. I couldn't even play the damn game after a while. To this day, I refuse to play the game without cheating, and even then I don't wanna play it for very long. It's so different from all the others. Moving around is clunky and slow, the environments become a pain in the ass to move around in, the sphere grid is easily the worst hunk of garbage ever thrown into a video game, especially since you absolutely had to have a character do something in battle, even skip their turn!, or else they get nothing. So to make sure everyone levels up, you have to sit there and make sure everyone does something in enough battles. Now, that's a handicap. Honestly, how on earth can you call the junction system worse than that? At least in FF8 you can level up normally!
The only thing nice about Xs gameplay was the ease with which you could switch players in and out of battle, and being able to see whos turn was up next. The battle screen layout and feel was pretty good, magic and items were nice. I hated the weapons and armor system, I hated not having an overworld map (sorry, the airship does not count), and I can't begin to express how much I heavily disliked the sphere grid.
The voice acting was mostly good. Tidus and Yuna were not. Tidus' actor suffered from typical anime overacting standards, which were painful. Yunas suffered from simply being horrible. The scenes where Tidus and Yuna would laugh loud or shout or whistle...made me wanna go to the bathroom or at least get out of earshot so I wouldn't have to hear them. However, as a whole, the voice acting just didn't blend well enough to work out as well as normal text did.
The story was fine, rather enjoyable really. The characters were...meh, nothing special. Except Auron, he was kick-ass. Graphics were the goodpart of this game. The music was sub-par, not Uematsu's typical standard.
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Actually, I hated the switching between characters thing. It didnt allow any "fully making a character party powerful" thing. The rest made it so you could make one party your favourite.
And yes, Sin was good, but not as good as Lavos...
...or Kefka...
...or Kuja...
...or Sephiroth...
...or Dark Disciple (?)...
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You just don't enjoy strategy. You dont have to stick every character into every battle. You fight a battle, stick in those who need to be stuck in, win, and go to another. For most of the game, you can get most easy battles done in just 3 turns.
Moving in the overworld may have been clunky, but it was the same speed as the other 3d FFs.
And the grid system allowed for much more character customization than any other leveling up system in a FF game.
I think that you just don't enjoy games where gameplay requires thought.
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You just don't enjoy strategy. You dont have to stick every character into every battle. You fight a battle, stick in those who need to be stuck in, win, and go to another. For most of the game, you can get most easy battles done in just 3 turns.
How can you say that after I said how much I love the Shining Force games? =p
I'm not talking about how easy the battles are, I'm talking about how much effort it takes to give each character an equal amount of chance for experience. The only times you ever really need to switch characters is in boss battles, so to level up characters any other time takes too much time and effort, and all it does is move you one space on the stupid grid.
Moving in the overworld may have been clunky, but it was the same speed as the other 3d FFs.
Er, no. You don't move in the overworld map at all in FFX. And movement in FFX is indeed slower than the other 3D RPGs.
And the grid system allowed for much more character customization than any other leveling up system in a FF game.
I've never liked customization in RPGs. They take out the elements that make RPGs so special: individual character traits, and all that entails (including abilities). This customization stuff is better suited for games like MMORPGs or other plotless, character-depthless kinds of games. Same reason I've never liked the job system, and why FF5 isn't one of my favorite games ever.
I think that you just don't enjoy games where gameplay requires thought.
Not true at all. RPGs require thought to enjoy in the first place, that's just the way they work. Besides, I love other turn-based and/or strategy RPGs, like the Shining Force, Phantasy Star, Breath of Fire, Lufia, and (more recently) the Fire Emblem games, for examples. Besides, I don't see FFX being anymore strategy-based than the others, unless you count how handicapped the sphere system makes your characters, and thereby sometimes you have to be extremely careful just to survive. Xenosaga did the job way better.
Anyway, that kind of comment is usually considered either a flame or a troll, or at least is very easily taken that way. Be more careful how you word things.
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I'm not talking about how easy the battles are, I'm talking about how much effort it takes to give each character an equal amount of chance for experience. The only times you ever really need to switch characters is in boss battles, so to level up characters any other time takes too much time and effort, and all it does is move you one space on the stupid grid.
Thats such a lie. Big lie. There is a type of enemy that one of your party members excels at killing, and all the rest arn't, with the exception of Kimari and Auron. Titus kills the small, fast things. Others miss them. Auron kills the big armored things. Everyone (other than Kimari) else does hardly any damage. Wakka gets flying enemies. Others miss them. Lulu gets the flan-magic enemies. Other hardly do any damage. Yuna and her summons are good vs bosses. And battles force you to switch it up. If you don't, you suck. And you progress rather quickly through the grid system.
Er, no. You don't move in the overworld map at all in FFX. And movement in FFX is indeed slower than the other 3D RPGs.
...
You know what I ment by overworld.
I've never liked customization in RPGs. They take out the elements that make RPGs so special: individual character traits, and all that entails (including abilities). This customization stuff is better suited for games like MMORPGs or other plotless, character-depthless kinds of games. Same reason I've never liked the job system, and why FF5 isn't one of my favorite games ever.
HA, coming from someone who likes FF8, and its junctioning system! A game where hardly any characters have defined roles in battles! You really don't know what your talking about with the sphere grid.
This is fact: with the turn-system of FF10, and the fact that characters do have defined roles, forces you to use strategy in your battles. This more than any other normal FF game. And you hate it for this reason.
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I'm not talking about how easy the battles are, I'm talking about how much effort it takes to give each character an equal amount of chance for experience. The only times you ever really need to switch characters is in boss battles, so to level up characters any other time takes too much time and effort, and all it does is move you one space on the stupid grid.
Thats such a lie. Big lie. There is a type of enemy that one of your party members excels at killing, and all the rest arn't, with the exception of Kimari and Auron.
My point exactly. All you need through most the game are Auron, Wakka and Lulu, occassionally bringing in Yuna for a summon or curing.
And no, you don't progress quickly on the sphere grid at all. I went through the entire game, trying to level up everyone as equally as possible, and they were all barely leveled up more than they started. That's alot of wasted time for little reward.
I've never liked customization in RPGs. They take out the elements that make RPGs so special: individual character traits, and all that entails (including abilities). This customization stuff is better suited for games like MMORPGs or other plotless, character-depthless kinds of games. Same reason I've never liked the job system, and why FF5 isn't one of my favorite games ever.
HA, coming from someone who likes FF8, and its junctioning system! A game where hardly any characters have defined roles in battles! You really don't know what your talking about with the sphere grid.
I played through the whole damn game, I know exactly what I'm talking about. It's a piece of...yeah.
And yes, I did like FF8 and the junction system, but it's not my favorite system by any stretch, I don't 'admire' it or anything, I simply like it. And no it's true, the only true individuality the characters in FF8 wind up with battle-wise are weapons and limit breaks (and GFs, except those are easily switched around). FF7 was the exact same way, actually. This would be why I liked FF9, 6, 1 and 4 so much more than most the others.
But it's not much different from FFX, really, especially after they can all learn the same damn abilities. And in FF8 it's not like you're taking days and days and days of walking around switching around characters so they can each advance completely around this retarded grid when instead three characters can do it all without any switching and in FAR less time. The sphere grid isn't even worth my time.
This is fact: with the turn-system of FF10, and the fact that characters do have defined roles, forces you to use strategy in your battles. This more than any other normal FF game. And you hate it for this reason.
Ok, you don't know what you're talking about, so please stop. I've already named other games that require thinking and strategy that I enjoy, why do I have to remind you?
Anyway, the FFs are not my favorite games, none of them are on my top 10 (except maybe 6 and 9...maybe), so this statement is completely irrelevant. I hate it for very much the same reasons you hate FF8, gameplay-wise. Whether you see that as legit or not, I leave to your own personal judgement.
FFX is a terrible game that would've made a better movie. They improved alot with X-2 as far as gameplay (and even Yunas voice acting) goes, but overall layout was still too crappy to make it as good as the other FFs.
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I found the Sphere Grid to be one of FF X very few redeeming features, oddly enough, for the same reason I liked the Junction system: Leveling up is boring.
Ok, this might sound weird form someone who likes FF XI, but hear me out. I’ve been killing 100 different things for X number experience points for Y hours just to level up to get Z% stronger (Z being a paltry fraction of the value of both X and Y) ever since Dragon Warrior 1 made the jump across the pacific. It’s getting old. It’s gotten old.
Along comes FF VIII. “What’s this?! Leveling up can actually be bad for you! Ye, gods, if only there was another way to get stronger! Hey, what this Junction thingy all about? Wait, you mean to tell me I can become irresponsibly powerful without your precious experience points? That I decide which character can do which attack, and when? All I need are some developed GF’s, some drawn magic, and an open mind? Sign a brother up!”
A few years later, FF X comes out. While not as (for lack of a better term) revolutionary as Junction, the Sphere Grid continued the tradition of leaving what character could do what up to the player, not some programmer somewhere Japan who randomly decides: “Ok, at level 45, Yuna can use Holy.” I’ll say when she can use Holy, fool! I’ve got a Lvl 4 key sphere, and I’m not afraid to use it!
There is plenty wrong with FF X. The Sphere Grid is not one of those things. There are many things wrong with FF VIII. Junction is not one of them.
And I don’t see how anyone can be against finally having the option to swap characters mid-battle. Every other RPG developer should start ripping off that idea like right the hell now. It sure would have helped Xenosaga, I tell you what.
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My point exactly. All you need through most the game are Auron, Wakka and Lulu, occassionally bringing in Yuna for a summon or curing.
And no, you don't progress quickly on the sphere grid at all. I went through the entire game, trying to level up everyone as equally as possible, and they were all barely leveled up more than they started. That's alot of wasted time for little reward.
1.) Your gonna have trouble with quick enemies, and machina if you don't bring Titus or Rikku.
2.) And you are full of it with your second paragraph. It proves you either cheated throught the game, or didn't play it. You can get fully around a character's entire path, and into other character's paths by the end of the game.
The rest of what you said was basically reguritiating what you had already said. You have proven you do not understand the game at all.
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‘Course, the same could be said about you, Sentenal. Being overly reliant reliant on GF summoning is the calling card of someone who doesn’t get the Junction system. Pretty much the only ones I used regularly by games end were Doomtrain (status aliments that actually work most times), Cerberus (Double +Tripple= Love), and if I absolutely, positively had to kill every mother f’er on the screen right this second, Eden. Oh, and Odin and Gilgamesh would show up randomly, but that doesn’t really count.
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I still believe it's all difference in playing styles. Your style fits better with FFXs than mine, my style fits better with FF8s than yours. We have our reasons for disliking these games, and find those reasons legitimate in our own views, whether the other agrees or not.
And with that, I will not argue about this anymore.
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I completely understood the Junctioning system of FF8. You draw magic, stick it on your characters, and they all become stronger, and over powered. However, this understanding came in my second playthrough. My impression of overreliance on GFs comes from first semi-playthrough (didn't feel like beating it, but got over 3/5 through it). And it was easy to get overreliant on them.
However, I did like teaching GF's ablities, further buffing your characters up. I would equate that with the HP and MP materia in FF7. There, I said something nice about it.
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Oh, and Odin and Gilgamesh would show up randomly, but that doesn’t really count.
I hated it when Gilgamesh would show up and kill Rinoa and Adel in the begining of Disc 4
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I will, in turn, do the same.
I also understood the sphere grid, actually I understood it sooner than Junctioning, but I just didn't find it fun enough to really get to know it better and possibly 'take advantage' of it. I also played through FFX twice. The first time I just quit when I got to the Calm Lands. I wasn't having any fun. The second time I put forth alot more patience, decided to start clean from scratch, and play it through in as few sittings as possible. I did. I didn't have the chance to do any side quests, since my friend had to leave after the weekend was over, but I still didn't enjoy myself outside of the cutscenes, most of which totally kicked ass.
The sphere grid is a fun, completely original idea. It was fun to see the characters advance through the grid and get stronger with most new movements, and the abilities and spells and whatnot were nice. The idea of advancing along on a grid where nodes would teach you different things really could work.
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Oh, and Odin and Gilgamesh would show up randomly, but that doesn’t really count.
I hated it when Gilgamesh would show up and kill Rinoa and Adel in the begining of Disc 4
Yeah, I know what you mean. The one freaking time he actually uses a sword other than "Excalipoor" os the one time you don’t what him there. I hate Gilgamesh. Hated him in FF V, hated him in FF VIII, hated the FF XI server that shared his name. Hate, hate, HATE!
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A GILGAMESH!!! I would rather try to get Odin after getting into Ultimecias period then keep Gilgamesh.
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A GILGAMESH!!! I would rather try to get Odin after getting into Ultimecias period then keep Gilgamesh.
I think you can get Odin in Disc 4.
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I think that you just don't enjoy games where gameplay requires thought.
Anyway, that kind of comment is usually considered either a flame or a troll, or at least is very easily taken that way. Be more careful how you word things.
Ok, you don't know what you're talking about, so please stop.
Any comment that ends w/"so please stop" in reference to posting an opinion is way more of a flame/troll than a comment that starts w/"I think". Not to mention the many spammy posts of yours that I've let go...>_>
And Silvercry, quit lording over the fact that you used the Junctioning system 'so perfectly' or w/e...There's two ways to play it. You junction to your Atk stat for Fight or you junction to your Mag stat for Summon. Either way the point is that it's an easy system. Whether you like easy or not is, of course, completely opinionated.
FFX was a lot of the same ol' if you ask me. Likeable, but nothing special. I liked the Grid System as it was pretty easy and fairly interesting. The battles were all just switching in who needed to be in. This kind of simplicity is similar to FFVIII's simplicity. You can like it or not, heavily opinionated again.
Also, Sentenal, Magic is more important in FFVIII than probably any other FF. It's just that USING Magic isn't very important. I don't see the big deal though. I mean, if it's not good to use, then use something else (which you should be doing in VIII).
But w/e
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A GILGAMESH!!! I would rather try to get Odin after getting into Ultimecias period then keep Gilgamesh.
I think you can get Odin in Disc 4.
Really? I never tried. I usually get him as soon as the garden become mobile. Maybe I should try waiting next time. Then again, I do enjoy what happens to Seifer when Gilgamesh shows up for the first time.
Seifer’s misery brings me great joy. God, I hated that kid.
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A GILGAMESH!!! I would rather try to get Odin after getting into Ultimecias period then keep Gilgamesh.
I think you can get Odin in Disc 4.
Really? I never tried. I usually get him as soon as the garden become mobile. Maybe I should try waiting next time. Then again, I do enjoy what happens to Seifer when Gilgamesh shows up for the first time.
Seifer’s misery brings me great joy. God, I hated that kid.
Odin was the only way I could beat him back in the old days
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Yeah, same here. Then I got my butt handed to me by Adel, since I was overly dependant on GF summoning, which wont help you at all in that battle. Restarted the game and paid attention to the GF tutorials, got back to Adel, and spanked her ass like a red-headed step child. Felt good.
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I think that you just don't enjoy games where gameplay requires thought.
Anyway, that kind of comment is usually considered either a flame or a troll, or at least is very easily taken that way. Be more careful how you word things.
Ok, you don't know what you're talking about, so please stop.
Any comment that ends w/"so please stop" in reference to posting an opinion is way more of a flame/troll than a comment that starts w/"I think". Not to mention the many spammy posts of yours that I've let go...>_>
Actually I think you've got it totally backwards. Anyway he wasn't posting an opinion, he was making an assumption, a very incorrect assumption that made me rather angry, and I handled it better than others I've seen in this forum. Besides, there is nothing wrong with telling someone to stop making assumptions, though I admit I should've added the word "assuming" at the end of that sentence to make it clear.
And I don't know about you V_T, but I Preview most my posts before hitting Submit. And don't pretend you don't have plenty of spam of your own :wink:
I don't think I've ever fought Seifer without having Odin already. I just found Tonberry too useful with the Call Shop, Familiar and Haggle abilities to go through the game without him, and that was after my first time playing through where I just fought Odin without realizing what I was doing, haha. Gilgamesh does bother me in all the games, though, and Seifer does bug me. *shrug*
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This is fact: with the turn-system of FF10, and the fact that characters do have defined roles, forces you to use strategy in your battles. This more than any other normal FF game. And you hate it for this reason.
Ok, you don't know what you're talking about, so please stop. I've already named other games that require thinking and strategy that I enjoy, why do I have to remind you?
This is the entire quote. You were not referencing his assumption (and his previous assumption was automatically his opinion btw).
Oh, and anything of mine that's considered spam (that wasn't in one of those spam "game" threads) is normally on-topic, accompanied by something on-topic, or at the very least isn't one or two words long. My spam is extremely limited (not that that makes it better...but still).
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This is fact: with the turn-system of FF10, and the fact that characters do have defined roles, forces you to use strategy in your battles. This more than any other normal FF game. And you hate it for this reason.
Ok, you don't know what you're talking about, so please stop. I've already named other games that require thinking and strategy that I enjoy, why do I have to remind you?
This is the entire quote. You were not referencing his assumption (and his previous assumption was automatically his opinion btw).
Yes, I was referencing his assumption. Look:
I think that you just don't enjoy games where gameplay requires thought.
This is fact: with the turn-system of FF10, and the fact that characters do have defined roles, forces you to use strategy in your battles. This more than any other normal FF game. And you hate it for this reason.
That is not an opinion.
Oh, and anything of mine that's considered spam (that wasn't in one of those spam "game" threads) is normally on-topic, accompanied by something on-topic, or at the very least isn't one or two words long. My spam is extremely limited (not that that makes it better...but still).
Yeah, same here. Actually I tend to make an effort to make sure I don't post spam, and I can tell you that maybe a little more than 5% of my posts can be considered 'spam', and that includes those stupid "Word Game" and "Stupid Question"-type posts.
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Okay then, things were misunderstood due to taking things out of context...
I still don't see how you can say anything about him flaming or trolling when you don't seem to be posting any differently from him in this thread...
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I saw "you don't enjoy games where gameplay requires thought" to be an insult, wouldn't you?
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Some people don't like Risk and Chess, others do. If I said you don't like Risk or Chess, because they require too much thought, is than an insult?
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It could be taken as one, and I did. Guess I was really in the heat of the flames.
Anyway, I don't like Risk, it's only half strategy, and that's all based on chance anyway. I like Chess and Stratego, though. And I like Wist and Hearts, even though those are based on luck too...the only 'luck' is what you get in the beginning and what the others have, but if you're smart, you can overcome the bad luck.
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The point is some people enjoy simple games, games where you don't have to think about every single little thing that you do. And I don't see anything wrong with that.
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I don't have a problem with it story-wise, it's just horribly acted out and scripted. I mean even Natalie Portman, who's a great actress in other movies, gave a half-assed performance. These things aren't always the fault of the actor/actress, often it's the Director. Hence why George Lucas should no longer write scripts or direct, or at least let the actors handle their roles their own way. Who knows, maybe Hayden Christensen is a better actor than these movies made him out to be?
He got rave reviews for Shattered Glass. The reviews for Revenge of the Sith largely said he did a better job, because he was allowed to be more human.
"Countless millions" also share my opinion of AOTC. Some have even said it's the best since Empire. I don't personally agree with that, but that's their right.
One has to realize where these two kids are coming from. The Jedi Order of the prequel era, in its arrogance, shares much of the same outlook on life as a fanatical religionist group; that stifling emotion and thought, everything that makes sentient beings qualify for the title, and submitting yourself to the whims of some invisible thing whose will, although proven to exist in Star Wars, is still nearly impossible to discern, is the only way to purity. A good many Sith Lords and Dark Jedi, as well as Grey Jedi (Force users that operate outside the Jedi but are not aligned with the dark side) have become what they are because of this attitude. The Jedi Code itself, or at least the one in use at the time of the prequels, says "There is no emotion, there is peace" as if the two were somehow opposed to one another. The Jedi stunted Anakin's emotional development; do you honestly expect an order that pretends that they have no emotion to be very helpful in that regard? Padme also came from a highly insulated environment, that of Naboo politics. In some respects, they can be said to have simply latched on to each other like a forbidden fruit, save that in this case it's someone else who comes along and ruins everyone's shit instead of the "feuding families" comprised of the completely different worlds the two inhabit. You really think that makes for a healthy relationship? Do you really think that with that kind of an upbringing, he's ever going to acquire emotional stability and thus not sound like a douche? Ain't gonna happen. You didn't notice when Yoda told him to simply let go of everything he was attached to? That was a capital-grade load of bullshit. Monastic orders are already irrational for trying to keep you from satisfying the basic biological desire to have sex, but taking away one's mental and emotional supplies as well forces you to rely on whatever power you're believing in like a drug, which totally robs you of the capacity to think and reason for yourself. The Force is just as much of a drug for the Jedi as it is for the Sith; for these reasons, Luke's reinvention of the Order totally excluded the clauses against emotional attachment. If you're not attached to something, then why would you bother defending it? Anakin's attached to Padme because she satisfies the sentient needs that the Jedi denied him; when Palpatine told him that the Jedi's presence threatened that need, he was willing to do whatever it took to keep her, even massacring kids and former friends.
In the end, the reason Anakin's a douche is the same reason Squall's a douche, except that Squall's a bit more of a douche because he does it to himself. But Hayden plays a brilliant, brilliant douche.
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Mystik, he was talking about it as an analogy...or metaphor...
But yes, it is an indirect insult, much like the ones used in Frasier :wink:
And yes, I hated Adel. Couldnt use any GF's *sigh* But Irvines Pulsar Shot was very useful. And yes, I love Tonberry. He was a piece of shit to use, yet his abilities are what made me win. Call Shop 8) To get Odin you must have the Chocobo Call ability or whatnot, and near Ultimecias Castle you must go through one of the gates, one that goes into a giant forest, and call a Chocobo. Then, you can go anywhere you want, except towns, because they are blocked by a forcefield. Ive only read this so...
Another thing I read is that if you beat the game 100% (all gfs, all magic, all cards, all items, beat Omega Weapon) and then finish the game 10 times on, then you get to play as Sephiroth!
Another thing is you do some stuff at the military base, and you get Cloud with Buster Sword instead of Gilgy. Rumours most likely...
Man, this has gone so off topic. More an FF8 thread...
Plus, have you noticed how much animosity there is in the forums? Everyone has an enemy. Lord J, and some people (Sentenal, Daniel) and so on... Most people and me and BlueThunder...
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Another thing I read is that if you beat the game 100% (all gfs, all magic, all cards, all items, beat Omega Weapon) and then finish the game 10 times on, then you get to play as Sephiroth!
Another thing is you do some stuff at the military base, and you get Cloud with Buster Sword instead of Gilgy. Rumours most likely...
Oh. My. God.
I saw a 'FAQ' on GameFAQs that pointed out tons of interesting rumors about FF9, very similar to these. It's ridiculous the crap people try to pull.
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Look man, you should know by now that 90% of all stuff on GameFAQs is bull. You did? Well, ok...screw you...
But what FAQ is this. Might be interesting to see it and if i *cracks knucles* like it, i might just give the authore a visit :twisted:
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um...uh...double post! sorry....heh...heh...
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That's not including all of the other great remakes and ports of older games like River City Ransom, R-Type III, The Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past & Four Swords and Metroid. Then there's Metroid: Fusion and all of the Megaman games (two series: Battle Network & Zero).
I got sick of Mega Man games a long long time ago.
After recently beating MegaMan: Battle Network (the first & currently working on the second) and playing quite a lot of Megaman: Zero (also the first), I feel inclined to point out that neither are like any of the previous Megaman games.
Zero is the closest of the two, but even it is a new twist on the old concept. Firstly, it seems as though it's set in the world of Megaman X and you play as Zero (big surprise, right?). You go through levels ala Megaman games, but your weapons are very tweaked. You get a buster-type weapon, an energy sword, a kind of energy spear, and an energy shield (everything's energy in the future kids!). Each weapon has different uses and the more you use them, the more they level up and thus each weapon becomes more useful by gaining new abilities. I stopped when I got to the place where there's those damn jumping platforms that disappear and you have to time the jump to the next disappearing platform at the last second...I hate those...but I'll pick it up again after the Battle Network games...
Speaking of the Battle Network games...They're nothing like any of the previous Megaman games at all really. Except that there's a MegaMan (spelt like that) and he has a buster (and there's a Dr. Wily, but no Dr. Light! wtf?!?)...All the rules of gameplay are different. The closest thing I can put it in comparison to would have to be a more real-time Live-a-Live. It's definately one of the most enjoyable games I've played in a good while.
Check both series out even if you've grown tired of Megaman & Megaman X.
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Damn my little bro was obsessed with MMBatle Network. Must've clocked over a over 100 hours probably. I think my other brother stole it from him jjust so he would stop playing it. An intervention, I guess.
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With Advent Children and all, I could gain to have some fun and experience by playing FF7. But should I do it? I'm afraid I'm going to hate it because Chrono Cross is technically superior; NPCs and some locations in Xenogears, for instance, look bland compared to the richness of Cross. I'm also more inclined to play FF8, since it's a love it or hate it game. I usually come out on the loving side, and since the story is about love, it'd be interesting.
You should play it Zeality, if you have not yet. I'm trying to bring this back on topic. But, if you have time aside from your busy CC lifestyle, play FF7, FF8 and FF9, as they are all very rewarding experiences.
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With Advent Children and all, I could gain to have some fun and experience by playing FF7. But should I do it? I'm afraid I'm going to hate it because Chrono Cross is technically superior; NPCs and some locations in Xenogears, for instance, look bland compared to the richness of Cross. I'm also more inclined to play FF8, since it's a love it or hate it game. I usually come out on the loving side, and since the story is about love, it'd be interesting.
You should play it Zeality, if you have not yet. I'm trying to bring this back on topic. But, if you have time aside from your busy CC lifestyle, play FF7, FF8 and FF9, as they are all very rewarding experiences.
And play FFX and X-2, since they have nice things to offer as well. Hell, play every damn Final Fantasy. You should also play the Dragon Warrior/Quest games, the Phantasy Star games, the Shining Force games, the Fire Emblem games (you guys were right, w00t!), the Breath of Fire games, the Star Ocean games, and all the Mana/Secret of games. Because most all of them are really really good.
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That's not including all of the other great remakes and ports of older games like River City Ransom, R-Type III, The Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past & Four Swords and Metroid. Then there's Metroid: Fusion and all of the Megaman games (two series: Battle Network & Zero).
I got sick of Mega Man games a long long time ago.
After recently beating MegaMan: Battle Network (the first & currently working on the second) and playing quite a lot of Megaman: Zero (also the first), I feel inclined to point out that neither are like any of the previous Megaman games.
Zero is the closest of the two, but even it is a new twist on the old concept. Firstly, it seems as though it's set in the world of Megaman X and you play as Zero (big surprise, right?). You go through levels ala Megaman games, but your weapons are very tweaked. You get a buster-type weapon, an energy sword, a kind of energy spear, and an energy shield (everything's energy in the future kids!). Each weapon has different uses and the more you use them, the more they level up and thus each weapon becomes more useful by gaining new abilities. I stopped when I got to the place where there's those damn jumping platforms that disappear and you have to time the jump to the next disappearing platform at the last second...I hate those...but I'll pick it up again after the Battle Network games...
Speaking of the Battle Network games...They're nothing like any of the previous Megaman games at all really. Except that there's a MegaMan (spelt like that) and he has a buster (and there's a Dr. Wily, but no Dr. Light! wtf?!?)...All the rules of gameplay are different. The closest thing I can put it in comparison to would have to be a more real-time Live-a-Live. It's definately one of the most enjoyable games I've played in a good while.
Check both series out even if you've grown tired of Megaman & Megaman X.
On Battle Network..
I am waiting for them to add Quint.EXE. :lol:
T_T.... I only have one Mega Man game...
Mega Man and Bass. ....D*MN THAT BLOODY DEMON!!!! I couldn't get past the first place! >_<
.......maybe I should try to get some other mega man games. o.o
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I'm trying to bring this back on topic.
I don't think this is possible as, honestly, the topic should be (should have been quite a while ago) locked...I mean, ZeaLitY's not only gotten his answer a few pages over, and not only has he played it, but he's already beaten it, if I'm not mistaken...
You should also play the Dragon Warrior/Quest games, the Phantasy Star games, the Shining Force games, the Fire Emblem games (you guys were right, w00t!), the Breath of Fire games, the Star Ocean games, and all the Mana/Secret of games. Because most all of them are really really good.
Wow, I thinkyou just managed to suggest almost every popular RPG series except, like, SaGa and Suikoden...:roll:
Well, that's also a funny thing since I just got through Battle Network 2 (I didn't do everything I could have, though...) since Bass is in it...for a little while...
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I forgot Xeno. Shit.
Yeah, I dunno though...I didn't like Saga Frontier II, I didn't play the first one though...they just didn't stick out to me. And I haven't played the Suikoden games, so I can't have an opinion on them.
Oh, also, play Earthbound, dammit! And Lunar Silver Star Story: Complete is amazing.
But really, my point in posting all those were posting about games I liked to some degree, I didn't post games I disliked.
But really, I suppose I should also add most the Zelda games and Landstalker to that list, but those kinda stretch away from the typical RPG thing, so...yeah. I haven't played all of them, like the Wild Arms, Parasite Eves, Vagrant Story (started it, didn't get far), Bahamut Lagoon, Treasure Hunter G (started both those, in Japanese, obviously didn't get far), and the "Tales" games (I played through about half of Phantasia and lost interest). Haven't played Legend of Legaia or Live-a-Live or the Brave Musashi games, or Arc the Lad, or even all the Pokemons...but those are play-one-you've-played-them-all.
Oh, and play Legend of Dragoon and Threads of Fate, two of the most underrated games ever, along with Landstalker!
...sometimes I think I've wasted too much of my life on video games, and I'm probably right o_O Yet I know I still haven't played as many games as most hard-core gamer, since I'm picky with mine and mostly being all RPGs...*shrug*
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I found Pokemon Gold & Silver had moderate changes that effected things dramatically from Red, Blue & Yellow...these changes were changed again for Ruby, Sapphire, & Emerald...I mean, of course any of them in the same series (or Red & Blue to the Fire Red & Leaf Green remakes) of versions is the same, but c'mon, each region had unique differences.
The SaGa games, much like the Dragon Quest games have almost always been character building over story & character development. And, go figure, the SaGa games are more popular in Japan than NA (it's more popular than the Seiken Densetsu series!)...Those crazy bastards. I didn't like either Frontier games...
You also fail to mention Star Ocean.
double-you tee eff
:P
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You also fail to mention Star Ocean.
double-you tee eff
:P
Er...
You should also play the Dragon Warrior/Quest games, the Phantasy Star games, the Shining Force games, the Fire Emblem games (you guys were right, w00t!), the Breath of Fire games, the Star Ocean games, and all the Mana/Secret of games. Because most all of them are really really good.
Wow, I thinkyou just managed to suggest almost every popular RPG series except, like, SaGa and Suikoden...
You even quoted me mentioning them, silly.
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Oh right...I knew your damn lists were too big for me to notice every single RPG series every produced was on them...>_>
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Ok ok, so are there any truly bad games out there that I like?
I just remembered one game in particular that most people would find really really shitty that for whatever reason I absolutely enjoy playing, possibly because it's easy and relaxed:
Mickey's Ultimate Challenge (Genesis; I know there's a SNES one, but the one I played was...yeah)
^_^
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Oh yeah who doesn't love an obscure Sega version of a Disney game?
:roll:
I prefered Adventures In the Magic Kingdom on NES myself...:wink: Space Mountain took me forever to master...
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But who doesnt love an obscure Square version of a disney game?
:roll:
Kingdom Hearts was a discrace. It was too childish, like the ones before the current Kameo screenshots, with all the fairies and shit. Oh darkness and light and bullcrap. At least at the time FFX was out and we had death and destruction :twisted:
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I personally never saw the appeal of Kingdom Hearts as well...not much into the whole, "Disney" thing. Yet, I know a ton of people loved the game, so it might be worth a look.
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I mean, you can have fun with it...in a new Crash Bandicoot kinda way. The story doesnt involve you at all. To make Square universe (the square universe? Random characters in a colisseum and aeris) and disney universe combine, what do they do? They make it a universe where they are all in different planets! Nice work square. I ber square were like, we'll make the game, you come up with the story. But i guess it WAS a game meant for kids...
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...looks like all you who played and didn't enjoy Kingdom Hearts missed the storyline. It was a typical Square storyline, and it involved Disney. And it made Disney look not-stupid! It was awesome! And the gameplay was excellent, the graphics were quality, the music was fine...I honestly had NO problems with Kingdom Hearts...except the Gummi Ship...that was stupid.
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Since when is Kingdom Hearts obscure? Seems like someone just wanted to bash it and couldn't find a proper outlet...:P
Oh yeah, and the E rating is for Everyone. :wink:
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...looks like all you who played and didn't enjoy Kingdom Hearts missed the storyline. It was a typical Square storyline, and it involved Disney. And it made Disney look not-stupid! It was awesome! And the gameplay was excellent, the graphics were quality, the music was fine...I honestly had NO problems with Kingdom Hearts...except the Gummi Ship...that was stupid.
I completely agree. Kingdom Hearts was great. Can't wait till KH2. If I had to take anything away from Kingdom Hearts, is how most of the "Disney" mini-storys within the game sometimes don't connect with the overall storyline good enough. Still a great game and great story though.
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KH2 looks crap. Look at Deep Dive, now look at the current footage. The KH storyline? Give me a break. Darkness has engulfed the world. They go to different towns. There are evil people. And because Sora is "chosen" he must kill them. Where is the references of human nature? Where are the choices? It was a disney game. Not a square one. The only good, beautiful part was when Riku gets trapped in Kingdom Hearts. I try and cleanse mickey from my brain.