Chrono Compendium
Enhasa Halls - Chrono Series Analysis => Characters, Plot, and Themes => Topic started by: Sheiken on February 10, 2020, 03:43:05 pm
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Now I KNOW I am not the first to do this, but here is my take on where there is plenty of room for a 3rd mainline Chrono game. Many would wonder what left there could be to do after Cross. Trigger covered saving the future, Cross covered the consequences of messing with time, and healing the scars of time as a whole. So what could be left?
The events on the Zenan mainland that take place alongside of Cross of course! Think about it, Dalton is still sitting pretty in Porre after their invasion of Guardia. However Crono and Marle are still alive, and there is no way the prince and princess are just going to stand by and let him be. But wait...didn't they die?
Well no, not exactly. You see memories of them as children in Cross, which are only present in Home World (an alternate timeline). These are not ghosts, but echos of a time that no longer exists. Illusions if you will. Furthermore judging by Kid's age and the letter left by Lucca, it implies that someone is coming for her and her friends (Dalton). The fall of Guardia happened in 1005 AD, a time when Kid was a baby. However in the letter, Lucca talks to Kid as if she were older at the time she wrote it. This implies that Crono and Marle are still alive, and the fall of Guardia was more a way to get the Masamune in Porre's hands, which is how Lynx got the sword to El Nido after infiltrating and rising through the ranks. However, since Lynx did not exist in 1005 AD, someone else had to lead the attack. As shown by the DS release of CT, this was Dalton.
Now we have Dalton, someone versed in time travel and Dimensional Distortion, and a living Crono and Marle. It is important to note that there will only be references to the events of Cross happening at the same time, but the story will not interfere with Cross directly. This is because in Another World (the true timeline), FATE is very careful not to allow anyone from El Nido influence the events on the Zenan Continent, as to avoid changing the past and prevent the FATE computer system from ever being created at all. There is another approach to this however, that will bring us to our next topic...Lucca.
Lucca has always been assumed to be dead, but we do not know this for certain either. The only death to the original cast that is confirmed is Robo (Prometheus circuit). During the campfire scene with Kid, it is stated that Lucca was specifically kidnapped, not killed. It is also revealed later that Lucca was kidnapped to program around the Prometheus Circuit, to allow FATE to access the Frozen Flame again. However, things did not go as planned. There is no confirmation of her death however. Perhaps what went wrong with FATE's plan was the fact that Prometheus sort of had a bond with Lucca, and he could have helped her to escape. It is also possible that FATE couldn't kill Lucca, as she was a big deal in the science community on Zenan. When things did not pan out, she may have been released as well since killing her would influence history itself. There is also a possibility that her mind was wiped, since FATE could still do that in Another World as well.
The last possibility is that after the events of CC, the Chrono Cross heals the scars of time. Schala is free and there is no time crash for FATE to appear from. This also means that there is no Lynx, which means Lucca was never kidnapped. Guardia would still have fallen however, as that was Dalton to begin with.
So what we are left with is a living Crono, Lucca, and Marle. Dalton is backed by a massive Porre Military and is fighting against a resistance led by our heros in an effort to rebuild Guardia back to its former glory. Eventually time travel or Dimensional Distortions would come into play (again Dalton is versed in both) and he would either serve as the primary antagonist or a starting point till an even bigger threat reveals itself. And that, is where we will end this story for now. This is only a topic of how a new Chrono game could take place after all, and not a full blown fanfic.
So what do you think? Would this be a good starting point for a potential "Chrono Break"? What would you change, if anything? And where do you see the story going from here?
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While I like the idea, I don't think it would work.
Dalton made it very clear in Chrono Trigger DS that his revenge would be personal. It's not about obtaining the Masamune (which Dalton may not even have known about until later, since during Zeal's era it wasn't finished), it's about getting back at Crono. If we look at Porre's succesful rise to power, and coupled with the fact that Belthasar most likely would have employed their help if they were alive, I do believe that during Chrono Cross Crono and Marle are dead and Dalton is firmly in his seat of power on the mainland.
As for Lucca, her fate is curious. Kid claims she was kidnapped, yet when Serge dives into her memories near the end of the game, we see Lynx looming out of the window with Lucca nowhere to be seen. You would think if he kidnapped her, or was in the process of kidnapping her, she would appear somewhere. Kid also refers to Lynx as a murderer occasionally, and Lynx himself claims "I'll send you to see Lucca" which, in my opinion, is the most damning evidence that she is most certainly dead. If she was alive, what would be the point of lying about it in that situation?
Finally, there's Lucca's statement that they "no longer exist in this timeline", specifically mentioning "timeline" and not "dimension".
Anyway, even if by some stretch of sheer luck they were alive... What have they been doing for 15 years? And why would they act now? In that time period Porre had probably colonized Guardia and installed new government. Would it be in character for Crono and Marle to seek revenge and wage another bloody conflict?
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Well considering that I said the game would take place at the same time as Cross but on the Zenan mainland, Crono and Marle would have been part of the resistance fighting back against Dalton. The 15 years you are asking about would be the events of the new game itself. And since Crono and Marle would still be alive, Dalton's revenge would not be complete either. As for the Masamune, no that would not have been Dalton's intent. Just something that happened during the invasion by chance. We know that the Sword disappeared during the Fall of Guardia and that Lynx joined the Porre Military. The Masamune must have been present within Porre for Lynx to have gotten his hands on it, because he did not exist until one year AFTER the Fall of Guardia. As for why Balthasar did not use Crono or Marle, well they are a prince and princess that already had their hands full with the resistance. There was no way they could help him during that timeframe.
Lucca is indeed up in the air. However Kid assumed Lucca was dead because she never returned. Lynx could have also just been taunting Kid, since he is all about mind games. But even if she did die, there is still the possibility of this taking place during the 15 year timespan AFTER the Chrono Cross was used. Since the scars of time were healed, there would have been no time crash and Schala would be free. This means that Lynx would not have existed and Lucca would have never been kidnapped.
Also timelines is just another way of referring to which dimension you are referring to in Chrono Cross. They mean the same thing. Balthasar uses the word timeline while explaining the split in Viper Manor as well. It is also worth noting that the Lucca you are referring to was in the "Home World" timeline, and the CT timeline is "another world". Furthermore by saying "this timeline" specifically, there are implications that they could still exist in the other.
Now some of this is open to interpretation, but I believe all bases are covered here and it fits perfectly. The only thing this possibility would contradict are other fan theories that are themselves open to interpretation.
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Right. Putting the Fall of Guardia stuff aside, I feel like that whole thing is too vague to conclusively say what happened. There is some evidence that suggests Crono and Marle survived, but it's debatable.
You could set it after Cross has concluded and the dimensions are unified, but the problem with that is that Cross seems to indicate that the unified timeline resumes from 1020 AD onward, specifically when Serge and Leena were on the beach. So those 15 years would still have happened already.
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Maybe, but there is no way of telling exactly the extent of the Chrono Cross being used. In any case, the game would take place during the 15 years so the only question would be Lucca if it only affected from 1020 onward. If the Cross affected more than just from when Serge wakes up on the beach (like Serge's father being alive, well, and not Lynx), then we have an easy explanation for her if she were to return. Unfortunately, there is no evidence supporting one way or the other as it never shows beyond the beach scene with Serge and Leena.
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I feel like since Schala said he'd be able to live a happy life this time around, it would be a life where his father was present and did not turn into a feline biological computer interface monster.
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You have a point, and that would imply that the effects of the Chrono Cross does indeed go back further than 1020. That would also mean that Wazuki would have never became Lynx, and by extent Lucca would not have been kidnapped. This also means that Schala could be present in the next game as well...pending on what happens between her and Kid. I have read somewhere that Kid and Schala merge together as one. This is supported by the fact that Kid is the only character with no end game dialogue once Schala is freed.
So in theory, Lucca could still have found a baby...but this time it would not be a "daughter clone" so much as a reincarnation of Schala herself. The big difference in her development would obviously be the fact that nothing happens to Lucca and the orphanage does not burn to the ground (provided Dalton does not target it that is).
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Right, but I feel like only events surrounding Serge and Lynx would be "fixed", so Lucca would not have been kidnapped as there is no Lynx, but the Fall of Guardia would have still happened because it didn't really have anything to do with Lynx or Serge's story.
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Yes, the Fall of Guardia would have happened which is why the whole resistance and fighter back against Dalton would still be, at the very least, the starting point of the new game's plot. From there Dalton would either serve as the main antagonist, or at least serve as the primary threat until something bigger is revealed (kind of like how Magus was before we learned about Zeal).
The Chrono Cross affecting Lynx would only serve as an easy explanation for Lucca being alive. Though I still find it hard to believe that FATE would allow Lucca to die in the firsr place, as there was an adamant effort to avoid contact with the mainland, due to any change in history could prevent FATE from ever being created. With that in mind, Lucca being a HUGE factor in the science community and likely to have worked on the very tech that would eventually be used within the FATE computer system in the future, allowing her to die just seems like a MAJOR risk on FATE's part. Even though Chrono Trigger/Cross does not necessarily work in paradoxes as someone pointed out in another topic, FATE believed it did and was a central point for why it needed the Frozen Flame to control the people of El Nido through the records of fate. This is stated to us in Chronopolis for reference.
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I dunno about that, was there really a science community on the Zenan mainland? It was mainly just Lucca and her dad. We know Chronopolis and FATE were built by Belthasar who came in at 2300 AD, we don't know how much he depended on the technology that existed in that age. I mean he was able to create a time machine even in antiquity.
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This is true, however what is important is what FATE believes to be true. Even if Lucca would have had no affect to FATE being created, it was explicitly stated that FATE kept the inhabitants isolated from El Nido in fear of preventing itself from being created. If Balthasar was indeed the only factor in the mind of FATE, this would have been unnecessary.
Also Luccia states that Lucca was a brilliant collogue of hers, and implies that there is indeed a science community in existence.
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Yeah, that is true.
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This is true, however what is important is what FATE believes to be true. Even if Lucca would have had no affect to FATE being created, it was explicitly stated that FATE kept the inhabitants isolated from El Nido in fear of preventing itself from being created. If Balthasar was indeed the only factor in the mind of FATE, this would have been unnecessary.
I've never understood FATE's obsession with preserving the timeline, since it should have Time Traveler's Immunity and be protected from changes in its own past. TTI is never named or discussed in either game, but it's obvious that it's part of the "physics" of time travel in the Chrono universe.* As the main computer of a temporal research facility, FATE should know this.
It's one of the things that makes the game unnecessarily convoluted. Creating new islands and populating them with brainwashed workers, then keeping them from leaving so they can't interfere with events on the mainland... Why go to all that trouble when FATE is in no danger anyway? Why not just turn the workers loose on the mainland? Furthermore, creating a huge artificial archipelago doesn't count as a history-changing event?
Brainwashing the workers I can kind of understand, so that there's no cultural memory of the Time Crash and the writers can set it up as a big reveal instead of something the characters should already know. But nothing in the game hinges on El Nido being artificially created. Not only is it an unnecessary detail, it directly contradicts FATE's stated goal of preserving the timeline. So why didn't the writers simply have El Nido be a natural archipelago?
* The only time TTI is contradicted—Marle's disappearance during the Queen Leene quest—is acknowledged by the writers as a plot hole.
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This is true, however what is important is what FATE believes to be true. Even if Lucca would have had no affect to FATE being created, it was explicitly stated that FATE kept the inhabitants isolated from El Nido in fear of preventing itself from being created. If Balthasar was indeed the only factor in the mind of FATE, this would have been unnecessary.
I've never understood FATE's obsession with preserving the timeline, since it should have Time Traveler's Immunity and be protected from changes in its own past. TTI is never named or discussed in either game, but it's obvious that it's part of the "physics" of time travel in the Chrono universe.* As the main computer of a temporal research facility, FATE should know this.
It's one of the things that makes the game unnecessarily convoluted. Creating new islands and populating them with brainwashed workers, then keeping them from leaving so they can't interfere with events on the mainland... Why go to all that trouble when FATE is in no danger anyway? Why not just turn the workers loose on the mainland? Furthermore, creating a huge artificial archipelago doesn't count as a history-changing event?
Brainwashing the workers I can kind of understand, so that there's no cultural memory of the Time Crash and the writers can set it up as a big reveal instead of something the characters should already know. But nothing in the game hinges on El Nido being artificially created. Not only is it an unnecessary detail, it directly contradicts FATE's stated goal of preserving the timeline. So why didn't the writers simply have El Nido be a natural archipelago?
* The only time TTI is contradicted—Marle's disappearance during the Queen Leene quest—is acknowledged by the writers as a plot hole.
Well it was stated in Chronopolis that El Nido was kind of an experiment of FATE to test its own ability to control history through the records of FATE. Since this was an experiment, it would make sense not to take it beyond that cluster of islands for the time being. So there is a clear reason as to WHY El Nido was created to begin with. However you are right in the fact that FATE probably SHOULD have known about TTI.
Maybe Balthasar is the Answer? Remember, FATE being a super computer and extremely intelligent AI does not change that fact that it is still just a computer. Balthasar orchestrated the entire game of Chrono Cross to save Schala, all the way up to the battle on top of Terra Tower. He was even the person who created FATE to begin with. With that in mind, perhaps Balthasar programed FATE in a way that it would never be able to accept TTI as a possibility. Perhaps it was Balthasar who did not want history to accidentally be changes due to the fact that Lavos was already defeated and 2300 AD was now a pretty good place to be.
It could also be a measure to keep FATE in check and prevent it from actually becoming a god. Balthasar planed everything out very carefully, and giving a giant super computer COMPLETE freedom would be risky to say the least. If not for that restriction, we would have another Mother Brain scenario as a possibility if FATE ever decided the human race was obsolete. They were based on the same tech afterall.
This makes sense to me, and it is the only reason that would make sense as to why FATE was unaware of TTI. It is a shame they did not elaborate on this more, especially after acknowledging the whole Marle and the middle ages scenario was a plot hole.
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Man, Chrono Cross hurts my head, but I definitely see the Fall of Guardia and the creation a 'resistance' against Dalton as a great potential for a game. There are drawings of Crono, Marle, Ayla,Robo and possibly even Frog and a Nu (https://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Lucca%27s_house.html) in Lucca's house at the time it burns down in 1015 AD. Suggesting not only that Crono and Marle might be alive, but that Lucca has access to time travel in some form or another as well.
With this in mind, Crono and Marle could be leading a secret guardia resistance, or could have been thrown back in time and only recently reunited with Lucca. It's hard to say. They could be dead, but, I don't see why there would be drawings of them in 1015 AD, unless Lucca kept them up for years, and if they perished in 1005 AD, who drew them?
With Dalton's time traveling abilities and dimensional pockets, he definitely could be the main antagonist, or his shenanigans could lead to an even bigger and badder antagonist through mucking up time/dimensions. I could see Dalton playing with a fire he can't control, going back in time and royally messing things way up!
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While I still think my first idea is better for a number of reasons, I thought of another way this hypothetical sequel could work and still tie into the main timeline.
We know of at least one canon timeline that exists where the events of CT took place, which would be the Radical Dreamers timeline. It is possible that another, if not the RD timeline itself, did not have Dalton raise an army in Porre and attack Guardia. Here the Kingdom would have flourished and Crono and Marle would have become the King and Queen. However one day a Dimensional Distortion, potentially as a long term side effect of the Time Crash, causes Crono or someone else from the original cast to accidentally travel between timelines into the one that the Fall of Guardia and Chrono Cross takes place. Once a way to travel back and forth between timelines has been established (Marle does have the same amulet as Schala afterall), they would not be able to turn a blind eye to the fate of their Kingdom despite it not being from their own timeline (similar to how Crono and gang could not ignore the day of Lavos, long after they would have died). Then the whole resistance scenario I mentioned before would continue from there.
However like I said, I still prefer my first idea overall for two reasons. One is because this would employ Dimensional Travel and Time Travel together, which could get very confusing if not done properly. The second is that it might feel too samey to how Serge gets pulled into a timeline where he had died. The only real difference is that it would be Crono and the fate of his kingdom vs Serge and the fate of Schala. One thing I find funny is that Square made sure to leave that record from Radical Dreamers in Chronopolis to establish that it was indeed canon, despite Kato himself feeling it was incomplete and just a Chrono Cross prototype. Could it be possible that something like this could have already been hinted at in reference to Chrono Break before the project got canned?
That record was the real difference maker, because even though Dinopolis itself had already confirmed multiple realities aside from the split that took place in Cross, but it also confirmed that the events of Chrono Trigger happen in more than one primary timeline as well.
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Man, Chrono Cross hurts my head, but I definitely see the Fall of Guardia and the creation a 'resistance' against Dalton as a great potential for a game. There are drawings of Crono, Marle, Ayla,Robo and possibly even Frog and a Nu (https://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Lucca%27s_house.html) in Lucca's house at the time it burns down in 1015 AD. Suggesting not only that Crono and Marle might be alive, but that Lucca has access to time travel in some form or another as well.
With this in mind, Crono and Marle could be leading a secret guardia resistance, or could have been thrown back in time and only recently reunited with Lucca. It's hard to say. They could be dead, but, I don't see why there would be drawings of them in 1015 AD, unless Lucca kept them up for years, and if they perished in 1005 AD, who drew them?
With Dalton's time traveling abilities and dimensional pockets, he definitely could be the main antagonist, or his shenanigans could lead to an even bigger and badder antagonist through mucking up time/dimensions. I could see Dalton playing with a fire he can't control, going back in time and royally messing things way up!
To be honest there was plenty of time for those drawings to be made. Remember Lucca found Kid at the end of Chrono Trigger (1000 AD), and started the orphanage not long after. I assume the other kids she found for her orphanage were not all babies, that would be odd. That means there was a span of give or take 5 years where Crono and Marle (and the others) could have visited the orphanage, interacted with the kids and the kids subsequently making drawings of them.
The only questionable thing there is, why did she leave them up for 10 years? Maybe it's because Crono and Marle passed away, as memorials? I know I'm reaching, but it's also odd that, if they were made recently, going by those drawings, Crono and Marle's appearance hasn't changed much in 10 years. Would they not be drawn as king and queen? The Frog drawing you mention is of his dead pose. Why would the kids draw that? The drawings are odd in general.
While I still think my first idea is better for a number of reasons, I thought of another way this hypothetical sequel could work and still tie into the main timeline.
We know of at least one canon timeline that exists where the events of CT took place, which would be the Radical Dreamers timeline. It is possible that another, if not the RD timeline itself, did not have Dalton raise an army in Porre and attack Guardia. Here the Kingdom would have flourished and Crono and Marle would have become the King and Queen. However one day a Dimensional Distortion, potentially as a long term side effect of the Time Crash, causes Crono or someone else from the original cast to accidentally travel between timelines into the one that the Fall of Guardia and Chrono Cross takes place. Once a way to travel back and forth between timelines has been established (Marle does have the same amulet as Schala afterall), they would not be able to turn a blind eye to the fate of their Kingdom despite it not being from their own timeline (similar to how Crono and gang could not ignore the day of Lavos, long after they would have died). Then the whole resistance scenario I mentioned before would continue from there.
However like I said, I still prefer my first idea overall for two reasons. One is because this would employ Dimensional Travel and Time Travel together, which could get very confusing if not done properly. The second is that it might feel too samey to how Serge gets pulled into a timeline where he had died. The only real difference is that it would be Crono and the fate of his kingdom vs Serge and the fate of Schala. One thing I find funny is that Square made sure to leave that record from Radical Dreamers in Chronopolis to establish that it was indeed canon, despite Kato himself feeling it was incomplete and just a Chrono Cross prototype. Could it be possible that something like this could have already been hinted at in reference to Chrono Break before the project got canned?
That record was the real difference maker, because even though Dinopolis itself had already confirmed multiple realities aside from the split that took place in Cross, but it also confirmed that the events of Chrono Trigger happen in more than one primary timeline as well.
I don't know why, but for some reason I just don't like the idea of a Chrono game where Crono and Marle are fighting for their self interest. Crimson Echoes did the same thing. That was never what Trigger and Cross were about. I mean I get it, and it makes sense, but if the stakes in the new Chrono game are lower than everything in existence being at stake, it makes it underwhelming for me.
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Man, Chrono Cross hurts my head, but I definitely see the Fall of Guardia and the creation a 'resistance' against Dalton as a great potential for a game. There are drawings of Crono, Marle, Ayla,Robo and possibly even Frog and a Nu (https://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Lucca%27s_house.html) in Lucca's house at the time it burns down in 1015 AD. Suggesting not only that Crono and Marle might be alive, but that Lucca has access to time travel in some form or another as well.
With this in mind, Crono and Marle could be leading a secret guardia resistance, or could have been thrown back in time and only recently reunited with Lucca. It's hard to say. They could be dead, but, I don't see why there would be drawings of them in 1015 AD, unless Lucca kept them up for years, and if they perished in 1005 AD, who drew them?
With Dalton's time traveling abilities and dimensional pockets, he definitely could be the main antagonist, or his shenanigans could lead to an even bigger and badder antagonist through mucking up time/dimensions. I could see Dalton playing with a fire he can't control, going back in time and royally messing things way up!
To be honest there was plenty of time for those drawings to be made. Remember Lucca found Kid at the end of Chrono Trigger (1000 AD), and started the orphanage not long after. I assume the other kids she found for her orphanage were not all babies, that would be odd. That means there was a span of give or take 5 years where Crono and Marle (and the others) could have visited the orphanage, interacted with the kids and the kids subsequently making drawings of them.
The only questionable thing there is, why did she leave them up for 10 years? Maybe it's because Crono and Marle passed away, as memorials? I know I'm reaching, but it's also odd that, if they were made recently, going by those drawings, Crono and Marle's appearance hasn't changed much in 10 years. Would they not be drawn as king and queen? The Frog drawing you mention is of his dead pose. Why would the kids draw that? The drawings are odd in general.
While I still think my first idea is better for a number of reasons, I thought of another way this hypothetical sequel could work and still tie into the main timeline.
We know of at least one canon timeline that exists where the events of CT took place, which would be the Radical Dreamers timeline. It is possible that another, if not the RD timeline itself, did not have Dalton raise an army in Porre and attack Guardia. Here the Kingdom would have flourished and Crono and Marle would have become the King and Queen. However one day a Dimensional Distortion, potentially as a long term side effect of the Time Crash, causes Crono or someone else from the original cast to accidentally travel between timelines into the one that the Fall of Guardia and Chrono Cross takes place. Once a way to travel back and forth between timelines has been established (Marle does have the same amulet as Schala afterall), they would not be able to turn a blind eye to the fate of their Kingdom despite it not being from their own timeline (similar to how Crono and gang could not ignore the day of Lavos, long after they would have died). Then the whole resistance scenario I mentioned before would continue from there.
However like I said, I still prefer my first idea overall for two reasons. One is because this would employ Dimensional Travel and Time Travel together, which could get very confusing if not done properly. The second is that it might feel too samey to how Serge gets pulled into a timeline where he had died. The only real difference is that it would be Crono and the fate of his kingdom vs Serge and the fate of Schala. One thing I find funny is that Square made sure to leave that record from Radical Dreamers in Chronopolis to establish that it was indeed canon, despite Kato himself feeling it was incomplete and just a Chrono Cross prototype. Could it be possible that something like this could have already been hinted at in reference to Chrono Break before the project got canned?
That record was the real difference maker, because even though Dinopolis itself had already confirmed multiple realities aside from the split that took place in Cross, but it also confirmed that the events of Chrono Trigger happen in more than one primary timeline as well.
I don't know why, but for some reason I just don't like the idea of a Chrono game where Crono and Marle are fighting for their self interest. Crimson Echoes did the same thing. That was never what Trigger and Cross were about. I mean I get it, and it makes sense, but if the stakes in the new Chrono game are lower than everything in existence being at stake, it makes it underwhelming for me.
Kid is 16 in Chrono Cross, which means Lucca found Kid in 1004 AD at the earliest. Kid would have been no older than one during the Fall of Guardia, which is why her being old enough to make those drawings is such a big indicator to Crono and Marle NOT dying during the invasion.
The Orphanage was most likely started right after the Fall of Guardia, as there would have been many war orphans after such an event and it would line up with being started soon after Kid was taken in. Even if they were made by other kids in the Orphanage, it is likely Crono and Marle helped with the kids and the recovery effort. With that in mind, drawing of them stating how "cool" Crono is makes sense and lines up perfectly.
Also, they would not be fighting for their own self interest. They would be fighting for their fallen Kingdom and against a tyrant that is influencing a militarized Porre. Everything about it is part of a noble cause, so I am not sure what you mean by "their own self interest".
And finally, Dalton is a fk up. I could totally see him accidentally unleashing something of grand scale by accident, which would shift the focus of the plot. Dalton is just the start.
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Do we know that Kid specifically made any of those drawings tho? Because if we don't and it could have been just some random kids, it's impossible to put a timeframe on when they were made.
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Do we know that Kid specifically made any of those drawings tho? Because if we don't and it could have been just some random kids, it's impossible to put a timeframe on when they were made.
But it is possible to put a timeframe on when the Orphanage was created. Kid was found no earlier than 1004 AD as she was 16 in Cross (1020 AD). Lucca formed the Orphanage after that, and the Fall of Guardia would have happened less than a year from when Lucca found Kid. Therefore the Orphanage was likely formed for war orphans after the attack. Given that Crono and Marle likely helped form the Orphanage, any of the other kids making the drawings still fits perfectly with them surviving.
There is also another piece of evidence. Lucca refers to how something might come after her and her friends in her letter. In the same letter, she talks about Kid's personality and mannerisms as if Kid was older, as she would not be able to determine how Kid's personality would be from Kid being a baby. Since during the Fall of Guardia Kid was no older than one year old (possibly less than 1), and since she refers to Crono and Marle being alive in her letter (which was written years after the attack), it is a strong implication that Crono and Marle survived the attack.
There is just far more hard evidence suggesting that they survived than there is that might suggest they died. In fact, most of what suggests they died was always just fan speculation from the start. The only thing that MIGHT suggest they are dead are the Kids on the beach. But even then, the kids only appear in homeworld and might even be the "entity" refered to in Trigger simply choosing that form to speak to Serge and Kid at the end of Cross. The kid resembling Lucca's one line to Kid about how she was happy she turned out however would not make sesne in this case though. It is also possible that they are dead in Home World, but not in Another World (which was stated to be the timeline you played in CT) as there are NO implications that they died there. No ghost children, and this was even the reality that Lucca left the aforementioned letter to Kid that suggests everyone was alive after the Fall of Guardia. It seems Kato was unsure what to do about the original cast and left it up in the air, but all evidence points to them surviving the attack.
But there is one other things that points to possible plans for Crono. The PSX release of Chrono Trigger had the Fall of Guardia scene, which was made AFTER Chrono Cross. You see the shadow of two lone swordman fighting and one of them falls. Naturally many ASSUMED it was Crono that died, but why wouldn't they just show that? It was left a mystery for a potential reason. At this time, Chrono Break was still being planned and had not been canned yet. Something ambiguous like that could have very well been a set up to shock the world when it reveals that Crono was the one who WON that fight, or he was not even in the duel to begin with. Unfortunately, this we will never know for sure.
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You're right, Kid's age makes the timeline tight.
But Lucca's letter is weird. You make a good argument about placing it at a point in time where she would be able to determine Kid's character, thus after the Fall of Guardia. But then she also goes on to say something or someone might come after her or her friends because of what they did. As in something that could happen, not something that has already happened (the Fall of Guardia). If the Fall of Guardia had happened, and someone had tried to kill Crono and Marle, wouldn't that be very odd phrasing?
Anyway, if they survived, I'm really curious just what they're up to during Cross. I find it hard to believe Guardia was able to rebuild while Dalton is still in power. Yes, there is the General Kid ending. Yes, there is Norris' speech when he stares into the Frozen Flame. But how can that be when Dalton, the man who destroyed the kingdom in the first place, is literally sitting on his throne to the south?
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You're right, Kid's age makes the timeline tight.
But Lucca's letter is weird. You make a good argument about placing it at a point in time where she would be able to determine Kid's character, thus after the Fall of Guardia. But then she also goes on to say something or someone might come after her or her friends because of what they did. As in something that could happen, not something that has already happened (the Fall of Guardia). If the Fall of Guardia had happened, and someone had tried to kill Crono and Marle, wouldn't that be very odd phrasing?
Anyway, if they survived, I'm really curious just what they're up to during Cross. I find it hard to believe Guardia was able to rebuild while Dalton is still in power. Yes, there is the General Kid ending. Yes, there is Norris' speech when he stares into the Frozen Flame. But how can that be when Dalton, the man who destroyed the kingdom in the first place, is literally sitting on his throne to the south?
In reference to someone coming after her, I believe she might be refering to Lynx (or FATE since she did not know about Lynx yet). FATE exists because of the future she helped create AND she knew about Balthasar and his plan. Seeing how this is what Cross was based off of, I feel she was more referring to that more so than the Fall of Guardia. I can also she why she would refer to Crono and Marle under this circumstance as well, because she had no clue if FATE would go through them to get to her or not. As we know now that did not happen, but the possibility of them being pulled into it without knowledge of how FATE would go about getting to her is more than enough cause for concern.
As for how they are holding up, we do not know. It could be that the powers that Norris is referring to is the resistance formed by Crono, Marle, and other leaders to oppose Porre. This would actually give Porre motivation for finding the Frozen Flame to begin with as well because if they had truly won and took over the world, they would have no need for it. But then, since the game would start with Crono and the resistance going against Dalton before the big twist to reveal something bigger, this hypothetical new game would be the game to answer those questions.
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To me, Lucca's letter sounded more like she didn't know who or what was coming, or if it was coming for just her or her and all of her friends. And Dalton being alive is also a result of their time traveling, as in the Lavos timeline he died at the bottom of the sea with the rest of Zeal. In my opinion the letter would make more sense if it added "in fact this very thing has already happened to my two best friends", but for some reason the details of Guardia's calamity are always intentionally left vague.
You could be right about a resistance.
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Dalton does indeed fit the bill for being a negative result of their time travel, no doubt. The major thing going against it however is the timing of the attack. The letter was clearly written after the Fall of Guardia when you look at Kid's age, so Lucca already knew about him. As for FATE, that was something she would have known about through Balthasar, but has no idea what form or approach FATE would take if it came after them. Since Dalton does not work due to the timing, FATE is the only other logical explanation I can think of.
I think it was left vague for a reason, just like the cutscene at the end of the PS1 release of trigger was left as two shadows with no confirmed identity. I could see them having a big reveal at the start of the game (or halfway through if it had a different protagonist) that Crono and Marle are alive and in the resistance. I firmly believe that at the time, they were at least CONSIDERING something like that for Chrono Break. Unfortunately unless the project is somehow revived and led by Kato himself, we may never know for certain.
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Cu
just like the cutscene at the end of the PS1 release of trigger was left as two shadows with no confirmed identity.
Same at... Nds...