Chrono Compendium
Zenan Plains - Site Discussion => Polling => Topic started by: chrono.source on September 05, 2018, 11:21:17 am
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Would love to get some ideas on what everyone would like to see in anything upcoming. Should we revise old characters? Create new ones? Give enemies a chance at redeeming themselves?
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Well, personally I'm divided on wanting to see something original, and something about background stuff to flesh it out.
Like, I would like to see something around the Chronopolis-Dinopolis War, or even about Porre's rise and culminating in the Fall of Guardia. A game with Villain Protagonists, if you will.
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I've always said that a Chrono sequel should somewhat be an all-star adventure in that it opens with a brand new character (in a new era), and eventually they are able to cross paths with and/or join up with characters from Trigger/Cross.
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I voted three options.
Schala/Kid - Yes, I know Kid is Schala's clone, but it feels like Schala's story isn't truly complete. Cross raised more questions than answers and want to know precisely what happened to this girl and if she would reunite with her brother and the main cast.
Human Glenn - On one hand, Glenn's story is completed in Chrono Trigger. Cursed knight overcomes his guilt and inadequacies to prove himself to be the hero that he was always meant to be, then helped to save world on top of it. On the other hand I am intrigued at the further adventures of this figure, especially since he is so renowned that he actually has people named after him 400 years later. He didn't stop being a hero but what did he do?
Reptite - In all the games, so far, the Reptites got burnt hard. Not only did Lavos wipe them out originally, preventing them from ruling the planet, but then time-travellers came and put an additional beatdown on them. Then worst yet in the timeline when they actually did evolve in line with the planet they still got corrupted. Since the protagonists are largely humans, our sympathies are supposed to lie with the cavepeople, but tis case makes a really good case that humanity ruins all it touches. I'd want more from the Reptite point of view to flesh them out from being either victims or villains.
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I've always said that a Chrono sequel should somewhat be an all-star adventure in that it opens with a brand new character (in a new era), and eventually they are able to cross paths with and/or join up with characters from Trigger/Cross.
In terms of a new character, what sort of past/lineage would this character have/come from?
I voted three options.
Schala/Kid - Yes, I know Kid is Schala's clone, but it feels like Schala's story isn't truly complete. Cross raised more questions than answers and want to know precisely what happened to this girl and if she would reunite with her brother and the main cast.
Human Glenn - On one hand, Glenn's story is completed in Chrono Trigger. Cursed knight overcomes his guilt and inadequacies to prove himself to be the hero that he was always meant to be, then helped to save world on top of it. On the other hand I am intrigued at the further adventures of this figure, especially since he is so renowned that he actually has people named after him 400 years later. He didn't stop being a hero but what did he do?
Reptite - In all the games, so far, the Reptites got burnt hard. Not only did Lavos wipe them out originally, preventing them from ruling the planet, but then time-travellers came and put an additional beatdown on them. Then worst yet in the timeline when they actually did evolve in line with the planet they still got corrupted. Since the protagonists are largely humans, our sympathies are supposed to lie with the cavepeople, but tis case makes a really good case that humanity ruins all it touches. I'd want more from the Reptite point of view to flesh them out from being either victims or villains.
I'm curious if you would go for more of a Schala post-Trigger aspect, or a Kid-Pre Cross aspect.... or combo of both?
And where would you leave off with the Reptites? Would you do something seamless where you just start off right where you left off in Trigger? Or sometime after the events of Lavos?
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In terms of a new character, what sort of past/lineage would this character have/come from?
I've had a few ideas. In one of them, which was a humorous side-story to Chrono Trigger a few of us were writing up (and creating some resources), the lead was a girl from 1999AD who was thrust back in time to ~990AD and grew up in Medina. She was mute and best friends with Kilwala and Nu (from the OVA) and ran a small ferry business. She had a pendant of her own, much like Marle's, that turns out to be a recreation from 1999AD. It is this way she is able to hop through time just behind/in front of Crono and friends. The whole story was a Rosencrantz and Guilderstern-esque side story that shows many of Chrono Trigger's events from "behind the curtain."
My other lead from another concept was an archaeologist from 1200AD studying the ruins of Guardia Castle. Seeing that Porre had covered up much of the history of Guardia after it's destruction, he was hellbent on learning more. He would later find out that he was a human avatar created by Lavos as a failsafe, and would have to merge back into Lavos to become a literal Assassin of Time (an unexplored plot thread from Chrono Cross).
All in all, though, any new lead would depend on the story. Without a story, I can't say how it should/could/would work... although I do believe that the character would work best if from an entirely new era.
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Part of Schala's magic (no pun intended) is not seeing her too much. Less is more, trust me. (Even though I want more of her, but that's the point!)
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Part of Schala's magic (no pun intended) is not seeing her too much. Less is more, trust me. (Even though I want more of her, but that's the point!)
Now that I've done a game with Schala as the main character, I'm going to agree with this completely that she needs less exposure; Having her involved in the story would still be a nice addition, but so would having kid as a minute aspect of the plot.... nothing big.
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I've had a few ideas. In one of them, which was a humorous side-story to Chrono Trigger a few of us were writing up (and creating some resources), the lead was a girl from 1999AD who was thrust back in time to ~990AD and grew up in Medina. She was mute and best friends with Kilwala and Nu (from the OVA) and ran a small ferry business. She had a pendant of her own, much like Marle's, that turns out to be a recreation from 1999AD. It is this way she is able to hop through time just behind/in front of Crono and friends. The whole story was a Rosencrantz and Guilderstern-esque side story that shows many of Chrono Trigger's events from "behind the curtain."
My other lead from another concept was an archaeologist from 1200AD studying the ruins of Guardia Castle. Seeing that Porre had covered up much of the history of Guardia after it's destruction, he was hellbent on learning more. He would later find out that he was a human avatar created by Lavos as a failsafe, and would have to merge back into Lavos to become a literal Assassin of Time (an unexplored plot thread from Chrono Cross).
All in all, though, any new lead would depend on the story. Without a story, I can't say how it should/could/would work... although I do believe that the character would work best if from an entirely new era.
I do recall your Assassin of Time idea and how intriguing it sounded. What sort of connection would this character have? Would they simply be a host body? would they have free will? partial will/Lavos influence? Would they have exponential powers/time travelling abilities? Do tell.
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I do recall your Assassin of Time idea and how intriguing it sounded. What sort of connection would this character have? Would they simply be a host body? would they have free will? partial will/Lavos influence? Would they have exponential powers/time travelling abilities? Do tell.
So my concept existed in a post-Chrono Cross timeline in which, after the events of Chrono Cross, Schala emerged from the Time Devourer and realized that Project Kid and all the events surrounding it (the creation of Chronopolis, the Time Crash, the timeline changes in which El Nido is created by the stranded descendants of Chronopolis) essentially doomed space-time by the creation of an Assassin of Time.
I didn't fully vet the concept, but the Assassin of Time (also called the Enmity of Lavos) was essentially a living embodiment of Lavos in human form, the goal of which was that Lavos created a human avatar, stripped it of all knowledge of it's existence, and sent it to earth to live a life as a normal human. The goal was that the human would eventually "mature" into the Assassin of Time and be reabsorbed into Lavos at an earlier point in history (pre-1999AD).
This was done so that Lavos itself could absorb the one thing that allowed it to be destroyed in the Chrono Trigger timeline: the sheer willpower of humankind. Lavos, who is so alien it barely understands the small scope of humanity, realized that it needed to understand humanity in order to defeat it; it needed to understand love, hope, willpower, and the drive of self-preservation. These were foreign thoughts to it's alien, non-linear timeline existence (I mean, it's core did live in a pocket dimension of sorts). By creating the Assassin of Time and reabsorbing it, Lavos would gain those traits and essentially alter history and be able to stop Crono and company, altering time so that they are unable to defeat him.
So back to Schala... and Chrono Cross. Serge was actually an unrealized Assassin of Time (which is why he was called as such by Lynx on the Viper Manor balcony). Even after the events of Chrono Cross, his existence - and the powers he gained in the Chrono Cross element - allowed him to succeed in his mission in becoming the Assassin of Time, resulting in Lavos' ascension and destruction of the earth, undoing the events of Chrono Trigger's original victory.
Schala, who exists in this timeline post-Chrono Cross (being post Time Devourer, she understands her connection to the Time Devourer and has some lingering pocket-dimension/time travel abilities) tried to manipulate time to stop Serge from becoming the Assassin of Time, but all of her efforts were in vain. She realized that the only way to save history is to entirely erase the Chrono Cross timeline and stop El Nido, and Serge, from ever existing. No Serge would mean no Assassin of Time... or so she hoped. So she travels to the post-Chrono Cross 2300AD, and before Balthasar establishs Project Kid, she stops him. She is still saved from the Time Devourer because the Darkness Beyond Time exists outside of space in time, so from a timeline perspective, she is already saved. The events there in destroying the Time Devourer still happened, despite the total annihilation of the Chrono Cross timeline.
And thus, the timeline is reverted to how we see in the PSX ending of Chrono Trigger. There's no El Nido, no Chronopolis... but Guardia still falls in 1005AD due to the mechanisms of Dalton. Schala, emotionally devastated for having erased an entire timeline and essentially "killed" billions of lives and the man she began to love (Serge), she removes herself from space-time in a self-made pocket dimension, where she crafts an ideal timeline for herself so she can live forever in a sort of paradise. A false paradise where she lives in Arni Village of El Nido along with a version of Serge that will never be doomed to become the Assassin of Time.
This is all backstory slowly explored in the game, some of which would have been done via flashback.
This new timeline, where the events of Chrono Cross never happened, is where the game begins, in the year 1200AD. During this era, the Republic of Porre (led by a Senate, although an unaging Dalton (due to his exposure to Lavos energy, along with Queen Zeal, in the Ocean Palace event) acts as a shadow ruler and really calls the shots) rules the world with a mostly iron fist, and it has "rewritten the history books" to vilify Guardia Kingdom and essentially remove their relevance in the history books.
The story follows Phase, a white-haired archaeology student from Manoria University. While on an excavation, he encounters a treasure hunter and rival, Toma Levine XXXIIX, and they find themselves in the forbidden ruins of Guardia Castle. There Phase finds the lost pendant that once belonged to Marle, lost since those horrible events in 1005AD.
Once they acquire the pendant, they accidentally open a Gate and after several misadventures, arrive in the new 2300AD. In this timeline, since Balthasar was convinced to stop Project Kid, he focused his energies to create the Chronoscope - a device that can detect changes to the timeline. He realizes that the constant time traveling has actually weakened space and time (part of the Assassin of Time's eventual/intentional plan), so he has decided to act as a sort of "police" to stop timeline incursions. His agents are Robo (the same Robo from post-Chrono Trigger, although with some upgrades) and the android Ada, who is this new timelines version of the Mother Brain AI. They are both PCs.
The storyline essentially has Phase and his allies (which eventually include Crono, Marle, Glenn, and Robo, along with several new characters) trying to stop these timeline incursions. We learn that each time Lavos "surfaced" (65 million BC, 3 million BC, 12000BC, 600AD, 1999AD) he released a elemental spawn that begins to affect that era in order to sow chaos and further weaken space-time. The end result: Phase, this new timeline's unknowing Assassin of Time, is forced to grow stronger by combating these enemies and gain strength, each time absorbing the essence of the spawn to become closer to his absorption back into Lavos.
The party is eventually forced to pull Schala out of her false reality, where she joins the party as the final party member. She and Phase clearly bond, as she sees much in Phase of what she saw in Serge (they both, after all, are artificial humans created by Lavos).
In the climax (equivalent to the events of Zeal in CT), the party arrives in 3 million BC, when humanity first touches the Frozen Flame, and Phase unknowingly acquires the last element he needs to evolve into the Assassin of Time. As he begins to transform into a biological, time-traveling monster and reabsorb into the Lavos of 3 million BC, he tries to fight it, but is seemingly unable. At the last minute, however, through the bond (and growing affection) he holds for Schala, he manages to stop the process just before it is too late.
However, Dalton swoops in and takes Phase's place, becoming an imperfect Assassin of Time. Dalton, having partially acquired the "essence" of Lavos is revealed to be the penultimate big bad. They then have to use the last act to reach Dalton and stop him from fulfilling his duty as an imperfect Assassin of Time.
Once taken down, the party stops Lavos once and for all... and this time permanently. They also resolve to ensure that there is no more time travel, because space-time is greatly weakened at this point due to all the time traveling shenanigans. The End.
In an epilogue, it finally reveals Janus (who has been absent the entire game), and sets up a potential follow-up in a new universe where time travel is all pre-determined fate, and allows for a sort of spin-off concept.
A few other parts of the story:
-Phase, who has been joined by Marle and Crono from 1005AD (pre-Guardia Fall), realizes that they can stop the Fall of Guardia and have a difficult choice in whether or not to alter the timeline and save the world from Dalton's evil Porre Republic, but at the expense of once again shunting countless souls to the Darkness Beyond Time.
-Lucca, who is an NPC working with Belthesar, has a crisis of faith. She realizes that she's seen all that science has to offer and begins to explore her spirituality (and whether or not there is a deity or Entity governing the universe).
-Frog is afflicted with a disease in 605AD, and the party resolves to cure him and return him to human form to remove the disease. This part of the quest is similar to Chrono Trigger's quest to revive the Masamune and is a decent chunk of the first act of the story.
-Doreen is revealed to be Marle's pendant.
-We also witness the Frozen Flame in 65 million BC, where it kickstarts its gradual manipulation of life on the planet in the name of Lavos. It interacts with both the remaining humans and Reptites and there are plot points aplenty.
-We learn that each Guru as an object of power: Balthasar has the Epoch and Chronoscope, Gaspar has the Chrono Trigger time egg, but what about Balthasar? He has the Forge, a magical amulet that allows him to turn literal dreams and emotions into personifications of life. It is thusly how he created the Masamune and Doreen (amongst other lesser Dream Creatures that are more animal-like in nature). Melchior kept this in his workshop in Zeal and it was lost when Zeal fell, so he never took it with him to 1000AD. However -- Dalton was able to acquire it from the ocean floor and used it to create his own Dream Creaturse and turn Porre from a protectorate of Guardia into a full-on military state, and using the Forge he was able to corrupt and steal the Masamune as seen in the PSX ending of Chrono Trigger.
I also started a second draft that made a lot of changes to this. In this new plot, which was never completed, most of the plot points remained the same: the concept of the Assassin of Time, Balthasar and his Chronoscope (and the risk of shattering space-time due to too much timeline interference). However, I shifted the villain a bit to introduce a character named Rouen, who was revealed to be Balthasar's vengeful son from further in the timeline. It also explored the concept of Counter-Time and Anti-Annihilation Energy, left unexplained in Chrono Cross.
In this draft, Counter-Time was essentially the ability to travel to erased timelines (remember, in the Chronoverse lore, when time is changed, the discarded timelines are sent to the Darkness Beyond Time and no longer exist). Thus, the characters were not only hoping through time, but were jumping to and fro on multiple timelines -- including:
-The Reptite timeline (had Lavos never arrived on Earth)
-The original Chrono Trigger timeline (with Lavos destroying the earth, before Crono and company save the day)
-The good timeline from Chrono Trigger (in which Lavos is destroyed)
-The Chrono Cross timeline
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-The current timeline, which is a variation of the good timeline from Chrono Trigger (with Chrono Cross having been erased due to the Assassin of Time)
In this plot, Rouen was using Counter-Time to revisit previous timelines to learn how to become the Assassin of Time. He was essentially a spiteful son who hated his father's god-complex and wished to undo it all.
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Ok, so I think everyone here already knows, I would love a game centered around the events of the Fall of Guardia. But I'm obsessed with that particular event.
Boo, I just want to say your ideas here are AMAZING! I do love how the Fall of Guardia (and the Guardia ruins) are in this concept. Of course I have the idea of reversing The Fall too. There really wasn't anything about it that I didn't like, it just sounds awesome! I won't lie, I also love the idea of getting rid of the events in Cross. Thank you so much for taking the time to type all of this!
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The problem for me is...
Chrono Cross' entire upending of Guardia was almost a slap in the face to Chrono fans. Granted, we don't know how much of a deviation this was in the original timeline. Perhaps Guardia was always doomed to fall in 1005AD? Highly unlikely, but we simply don't know.
Then again, undoing the events of Chrono Cross is a slap in the face, too. After all, the ghost children specifically mention the horrors of condemning entire timelines to the Darkness Beyond Time with time travel.
In my original concept, I didn't actually remove the Chrono Cross timeline because I didn't like it; I did it because I pictured it as a ROM hack, and I have no idea how one could possibly implement El Nido in Chrono Trigger's engine (with it's limitations) and do it justice. Therefore, revert to a time in which it doesn't exist and the world is more akin to Chrono Trigger's!
I have struggled with how to explain the Darkness Beyond Time. Chrono Cross clearly establishes that discarded/changed timelines are shunted to the Darkness Beyond Time... but then, in an easter egg in the Dead Sea, also shows that multiple timelines exist, and that Radical Dreamers is simply a different reality/timeline. Plus, we have the whole two divergent timelines that make up the backbone of the entire Chrono Cross plot!
How does one reconcile that contradiction?
I think existing, non-Chronoverse multiverse theory applies here. Timeline changes due to time travel doesn't actually result in a discarded timeline, rather, the time travelers are only shunted into the new resulting timeline, while the original timeline remains intact and unchanged. Where there was one, there is now two, except the time traveler only moves along the time axis into the new timeline. HOWEVER -- there is a realm of negative space-time / counter-time / whatever fancy name you want to call it called the Darkness Beyond Time -- and it is quite literally a universe that only exists in 3 dimensions. The 4th dimension, time, simply doesn't exist there. Or something along those lines.
The supposed timelines that were discarded and set to the Darkness Beyond Time aren't actually those timelines, rather echoes of timelines. Thus, the DBT is simply made up of echoes of modified timelines and not the real things themselves.
On this basis, every timeline in Chrono Trigger still exists within the multiverse. The post-apocalyptic 2300AD that was supposedly erased by destroying Lavos actually still exists, the people there none-the-wiser that Crono and company have now created a timeline that isn't so dire.
I say all this to say that Chronoverse time travel rules are wonky and contradictory, and I think a proper sequel could address this. I also feel like a multiverse approach makes sense given the escalation of gameplay in Chrono Trigger games. Chrono Trigger saw one timeline being changed, Chrono Cross saw two divergent timelines that one could hop between, so the third game would logically escalate that into full on multiverse territory.
That being said, I'd rather have a good ol' time travel romp more akin to Chrono Trigger.
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Then again, undoing the events of Chrono Cross is a slap in the face, too. After all, the ghost children specifically mention the horrors of condemning entire timelines to the Darkness Beyond Time with time travel.
I love Cross almost (but not quite) as much as Trigger, but this facet of the story always bugged me too. Mainly because the ramifications of it weren't made clear. Is the averted future simply an empty wasteland floating around the DBT (kind of like what we see in the Dead Sea) and all the people that would have been born simply never existed? Or do those people still exist in the DBT? If so, are they ignorant of their situation (and if so, what's the problem?), or are they eternally suffering for some reason?
Like, what's actually so bad about the DBT? I didn't feel like it was adequately explained. But then, hardly anything in Cross was. :P
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Oh, no wonder it sounded familiar...
https://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?topic=9493.0 (https://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?topic=9493.0)
Well, I repeat my answer from back then, and expanding on it. The whole multiverse was already established, with just one "active" timeline, rest get sent to the DBT. The Home-Another split is an anomaly of a dimension housing more than one active timeline, not how it's suppose to work normally.
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... The whole multiverse was already established, with just one "active" timeline, rest get sent to the DBT. The Home-Another split is an anomaly of a dimension housing more than one active timeline, not how it's suppose to work normally.
Wait. Expand that for me. One active timeline and the rest gets send to the Darkness Beyond Time? But that wouldn't be multiverse theory, would it? In multiverse theory, there are an unlimited number of realities, each different from the rest, none of which are a prime timeline. They may have branches off of each other, but one is just real as the rest.
I may have understood you wrong.
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Wait. Expand that for me. One active timeline and the rest gets send to the Darkness Beyond Time? But that wouldn't be multiverse theory, would it? In multiverse theory, there are an unlimited number of realities, each different from the rest, none of which are a prime timeline. They may have branches off of each other, but one is just real as the rest.
I may have understood you wrong.
It depends on how we define as "world" and "dimension". Do we have a single dimension housing multiple worlds, who each have their own timeline? Or each dimension is it's own world, thus more than one dimension/reality, but still housing one timeline each? Either way, there should be a 1:1 ratio for worlds/dimensions and timelines. At least, that's how I see it.
Really, it all depends on context. Words like "world" have always meant different things depending on the concept. Different world can mean the same or mean different from different dimension.
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It depends on how we define as "world" and "dimension". Do we have a single dimension housing multiple worlds, who each have their own timeline? Or each dimension is it's own world, thus more than one dimension/reality, but still housing one timeline each? Either way, there should be a 1:1 ratio for worlds/dimensions and timelines. At least, that's how I see it.
Really, it all depends on context. Words like "world" have always meant different things depending on the concept. Different world can mean the same or mean different from different dimension.
Gotcha. I guess I just assumed each timeline is it's only dimension/world. The only caveat between home world and another world was an "anchor" in the form of the angellus errare, intricately linking the two in a way that would never happen under any other circumstances.
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That was amazing Boo the Gentleman Caller, you really captured the spirit of Masato Kato's storytelling in your planned sequel. I especially loved the idea of a broken Schala living in a self-created deluded universe. (because that is something she would definitely do) and a very powerful story beat to see play out.
The main concept is rather great, I enjoyed the idea of a Lavos failsafe gathering power and managing to resist the pull of his fate, though I am not sure how Schala would play into helping him resist this. I suppose since Lavos and Schala did share a symbiotic relationship for an endless amount of time this feeling may have manifested into a desire for ?companionship? in the main Lavos host. I am a little confused about that aspect.
All in all, it is a wonderful story and may just need a little more refinement. You said you planned it for it to be a Chrono Trigger hack at first, with 7 (perhaps 8) character limit I guess that would be...
Phase, Roba, Ada, Crono, Marle, Glenn, Schala?
I am not sure on the idea of Rouen though. Since I can't see how someone who wants to undo his crazy dad's machinations would become the embodiment of disruption and destruction.
Finally, didn't Crono already send the original future to the Darkness Beyond Time? Why would he feel conflicted and not choose to save his own era? I suppose Phase could try to stop him because of those he knows in 2200 AD and could realize that they would also be destroyed by stopping the Fall of Guardia.
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That was amazing Boo the Gentleman Caller, you really captured the spirit of Masato Kato's storytelling in your planned sequel. I especially loved the idea of a broken Schala living in a self-created deluded universe. (because that is something she would definitely do) and a very powerful story beat to see play out.
Thanks. I tried to envision something that captured the spirit of Chrono Trigger, but still added some of the more complexity of Cross.
The main concept is rather great, I enjoyed the idea of a Lavos failsafe gathering power and managing to resist the pull of his fate, though I am not sure how Schala would play into helping him resist this. I suppose since Lavos and Schala did share a symbiotic relationship for an endless amount of time this feeling may have manifested into a desire for ?companionship? in the main Lavos host. I am a little confused about that aspect.
In my story, this dream world literally exists as a giant blue sphere of pulsating energy in the ice age. It's there because, after all was said and done, she decides to try and spend her energy on helping the people of her own era, but once she arrived there, her willpower was sapped and she sank into a deep depression, ultimately choosing that she would rather live in a false, perfect reality rather than the real world.
So in my envisioned plot, you actually have to travel to Schala's false reality / dream world twice. The first would be about equivalent to when Crono and company first visit the End of Time in Chrono Cross. The first time you travel there is for intel and to ask Schala to join the heroes at the Time Research Laboratory with Balthasar; she gives the first info dump about why the Chrono Cross reality no longer exists, and she reveals that the Serge of Chrono Cross was ultimately destined to become an Assassin of Time. She refuses to join the party, but does feel a kinship to Phase for the exact reasons you describe, although she doesn't recognize it -- she was bonded with Lavos as the Dream Devourer in the Darkness Beyond Time, and Phase is a sort of semi-manifestation of Lavos. Phase feels drawn to Schala, as well. I also envision a hint of attraction.
Throughout the story, Phase would think about Schala often. He pities her, but he also mentions wanting to help her.
Later, the party returns to the false reality of Schala and is able to snap her out of her reverie. In fact, it is only because of Phase's motivation that she can move forward and face the reality. She joins the party, and for the rest of the game, the two bond. Later, when Phase learns that he is just another destined Assassin of Time, Schala resolves to save him, as she couldn't save Serge.
The party spends time trying to stop Phase, but we ultimately realize that their attempts only hastened the process. In 3 million BC, at the moment when mankind first encounters the Frozen Flame, Phase absorbs the last pieces of energy needed to ignite the transformation into the Assassin of Time. It happens biologically -- his physical body literally begins to blister and transform (think Akira meets a Star Craft Zerg), and Schala pleads with him to save himself. Unfortunately, Phase has no control over the process and literally can't stop himself.
As a sort of fleshly cocoon-pod begins to form over the transforming Phase, the final stage of the transformation, Schala leaps into the pod and momentarily merges with Phase. The two are trapped within the pod, and the party laments that they've failed in their mission; Phase has evolved into the Assassin of Time and will soon rejoin Lavos, and Schala with him (assuming she even survived). However, the pod breaks down, revealing a perfectly fine Phase and Schala -- her willpower (and experience as having been previously linked to Lavos) allowed her to save Phase.
Meanwhile, a time-traveling Dalton has observed this, eventually leaps into the pod, and becomes and incomplete Assassin of Time with the goal of becoming a god - becoming Lavos. He is ultimately the big bad for the final act of the story.
All in all, it is a wonderful story and may just need a little more refinement. You said you planned it for it to be a Chrono Trigger hack at first, with 7 (perhaps 8) character limit I guess that would be...
Phase, Roba, Ada, Crono, Marle, Glenn, Schala?
I envisioned it as a cast of 9.
-Phase is first, and he is quickly joined by his rival and a descendant of Toma from 1200AD.
-They then meet a time-traveling Robo on a mission for Balthasar, and the three join up.
-They then travel to 2300AD and Ada joins the team.
-Later they gain Marle in 1005AD.
-They would then get a new character, a Reptite and the daughter of Azala in ~65 million BC.
-After spending a chunk of the story trying to save Glenn (which is why they had to return to 65 million BC), they would save Glenn, turn him human, and he would join the party.
-I hadn't fully decided on the other new character, but I was picturing a returning Chrono Cross character who was from Zenan mainland and thus not part of the erased Chrono Cross timeline. I had considered Zappa (who would be a much younger man) or better yet, a teenage Norris. I had also considered a character from 3 million BC; perhaps one of the first people to learn magic from the Frozen Flame?
-The second-to-last character would be optional, who would be Crono.
-The final character, equivalent to Magus, would have been Schala.
I am not sure on the idea of Rouen though. Since I can't see how someone who wants to undo his crazy dad's machinations would become the embodiment of disruption and destruction.
So I had a complete first draft of the story that is pages and pages long. Rouen doesn't even exist in the second draft, nor is there any exploration around counter-time, so I admittedly never fleshed out how he would work or fit into the story. In my mind, Balthasar is sort of a control freak - he wants to master time. Look at Chrono Cross and his almost god complex with the complexity of orchestrating Project Kid. Even though the version of Balthasar we meet in my story is yet another version of Balthasar, this version maintains that same desire to control. Thus, his son was envisioned as a counter. Where Balthasar wants to meticulously control and manage for an optimal outcome, his son would be chaotic, driven by anger (or insanity) and want to destroy. This was written years ago, before the new Star Wars trilogy, but I picture Rouen being akin to Kylo Ren in his dynamism.
Finally, didn't Crono already send the original future to the Darkness Beyond Time? Why would he feel conflicted and not choose to save his own era? I suppose Phase could try to stop him because of those he knows in 2200 AD and could realize that they would also be destroyed by stopping the Fall of Guardia.
Well, the note from Lucca in Chrono Cross mentions that they never considered the negative fallout of their efforts until after the events of Chrono Cross. They just thought they would destroy Lavos, save the future, and that would be that. I don't think they considered the moral implications until much later.
In fact, what you mentioned in a part of the story. When Marle joins the party, they intentionally try to hide the fact that Guardia is going to fall in a short time. Phase, who was studying history and the fall of Guardia, wanted to tell her, but Balthasar and the others essentially force him to keep his mouth shut. If they should stop the fall from happening, there will be yet another 2300AD timeline, and in that, it is possible Balthasar won't have his Chronoscope (invented in this timeline) to monitor and police space-time.
Later, when she finds out she goes ballistic. She actually leaves the party before eventually recognizing that the threat of the Assassin of Time is far worse than the fate of her kingdom. She does promise that she'll save Guardia however necessary once they finish their quest.
(A note about Marle's characterization in my story: Crono and Marle are engaged and to be married. Crono is undergoing training and is a retainer for the King, trying to learn the ropes of his future royalty. He is super serious about it and very focused. Marle, on the other hand, is wanting to settle down, raise a family, and she is still considering whether or not she is capable of the responsibilities of wife/mother/queen. Thus, Marle and Crono are somewhat at odds; Marle is shirking her duties, while Crono is almost embracing them too much).
The war between Porre and Guardia begins during the story I plotted, and I went back and forth on how much to explore of the fated battle at Guardia Castle. If you remember, I mention that Dalton has the Forge - Melchior's artifact that grants him control over dreams and life. This is what allows him to possess the Masamune and corrupt it, and it's his control over the Masamune that allows him to destroy Guardia.
One of the first missions the party has in the new 2300AD is helping Lucca and Ada retrieve the Frozen Flame for their lab, as they needed it to power the place (sort of echoing Crimson Echoes). It lays at the bottom of the ocean floor in the ruins of the Mammon Machine, so there would be a dungeon to retrieve it. It would then be installed at the Time Research Laboratory and would power it. You would later learn that Balthasar can use the Frozen Flame (completely under his control using annihilation energy) to create a sort of space-time anomaly around the lab, making it exist in a pocket dimension.
I ultimately figured that events would explore the party stealing the Forge from Dalton in 605AD. Without the Forge, he would never be able to raise Porre up into the powerful nation it is, and he would never be able to destroy Guardia. Crono and Marle would ultimately decide to save their history and allow the multiverse to take care of the rest. After all, we'd learn that the Darkness Beyond Time doesn't actually hold discarded/erased timelines, only echoes of timelines created via time travel. Thus, no time timeline is ever erased, only new timelines can be created.
In game we'd see Porre shrink from a mega cityscape into it's more traditional form as seen in Chrono Trigger. You'd also learn that the fact that the Time Research Lab exists in a pocket dimension outside of space-time makes it exist despite further timeline changes.
I sort of did that so this version of Balthasar would be the last (from a story perspective). Constantly rewriting history and creating new 2300AD - and new versions of Balthsa - would be lame.
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Due to the DBT being such an enigma, is it possible that although they are not in any specified "reality", they are still active/alive in some way? Therefore still ringing true to a multiverse theory?
We would need to revisit what constitutes an "active" universe. Thoughts?
Also Boo, I'm loving this plot you have going on. Is the Belthasaar bastard child from the future pronounced "ruin"? Just curious. Also Since Serge is technically an assassin of time (AoT), would he play a role in it as well? As far as Dalton's Incomplete AoT form: what role would it play? Could he become complete? Would he be linked to Lavos? Communicate with it?
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Also Boo, I'm loving this plot you have going on. Is the Belthasaar bastard child from the future pronounced "ruin"? Just curious. Also Since Serge is technically an assassin of time (AoT), would he play a role in it as well? As far as Dalton's Incomplete AoT form: what role would it play? Could he become complete? Would he be linked to Lavos? Communicate with it?
Great questions, let's discuss!
Is the Belthasaar bastard child from the future pronounced "ruin"?
Yes. Full credit to MrBekkler and Lance for helping me come up with the name.
Also Since Serge is technically an assassin of time (AoT), would he play a role in it as well?
Well, the whole idea is that Serge was erased from existence along with the Chrono Cross timelines. Schala literally had to remove the entire Chrono Cross timeline to ensure that he cannot exist, or else he's destined to become the Assassin of Time. However, there is a version of Serge that lives with Schala in the false reality she's created for herself. Letting go of a false reality is a challenge for her.
I also hint that the Schala "Kid" Zeal coda we see in Chrono Cross is just a glimpse of that false reality. There's a picture of Kid and Serge in regal attire, and this is very possibly a part of that false reality. Somber, right?
There's also a strong hint that Phase is perhaps a "reincarnation" of Serge, although there's no much there story-wise that can indicate that. It would be more of a vapid plot point, like the Entity in Chrono Trigger.
As far as Dalton's Incomplete AoT form: what role would it play? Could he become complete? Would he be linked to Lavos? Communicate with it?
So much of Phase's adventure is orchestrated by Lavos. Like Balthasar in Chrono Cross, who orchestrated Serge's adventure to ensure that he is strong enough to acquire the Chrono Cross and tackle the Time Devourer, Lavos orchestrated this counter plan. So we eventually learn that much of Phase's adventure was geared to push him to become the Assassin of Time.
When he does become the Assassin of Time, the process is fairly instantaneous. Once absorbing the final elements, his body immediately begins to transform - becoming encased in a sort of cocoon, and within minutes the transformation would occur and he could rejoin Lavos. This event happens in 3 million BC, so Phase would be able to rejoin Lavos at this point in time. Seeing that Lavos absorbs genetic material of all life to strengthen itself, this additional join would simply push his abilities to ensure that his ascension in 1999AD is final.
Dalton, however, is a mere human who was not created for this endeavor. He *can* become an "incomplete Assassin of Time, and essentially fulfill the same role, but he can't undergo the biological transformation immediately and instead needs "millions of years" to complete the metamorphosis.
What I envision in the game would be that Phase undergoes his transformation, Schala tries to stop him and leaps into the cocoon with him right before it closes, the groups laments their losses, and the cocoon breaks open, freeing Phase and Schala, Phase having used the transformation process to become fully human and remove the Lavos presence from himself.
Meanwhile, Dalton has been in the sidelines and leaps into the cocoon, causing it to seal behind him. Dalton echoes his grandiose plans and both he and the cocoon are shunted to the Darkness Beyond Time. Since he will take millions, maybe even billions of years, to transform, he can't do that on standard planet time. Since time doesn't exist in the Darkness Beyond Time in the standard sense, he can go there and undergo his transformation. Millions of years may happen there and he can still emerge at any point in space-time without a moment having passed.
There are events as the heroes try to get to the Darkness Beyond Time, and once they find a way to travel there, it serves as a final dungeon and would be a combination of various points in space-time mashed together, including events from discarded timelines (including Chrono Cross areas).
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I'm really liking this take on things. Has any groundwork been laid out for this as a viable project?
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Has any groundwork been laid out for this as a viable project?
No. A small group of us were talking and working on this back in 2014, but it ended later that year. I wrote the first draft, and we started working a second draft (for example, the second draft added Rouen and the new aspect of counter-time), but the second draft never went far.
I have a few incomplete sprites that I built.
That was about it. It's been derelict ever since.
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No. A small group of us were talking and working on this back in 2014, but it ended later that year. I wrote the first draft, and we started working a second draft (for example, the second draft added Rouen and the new aspect of counter-time), but the second draft never went far.
I have a few incomplete sprites that I built.
That was about it. It's been derelict ever since.
That's unfortunate. We need to recruit some younger, less burdened with responsibilities-type, people here to do some legwork for us lol.
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That's unfortunate. We need to recruit some younger, less burdened with responsibilities-type, people here to do some legwork for us lol.
Right? I was hoping the Steam release would have brought in some more new blood. :/
If nothing else, thanks for the endorsement of the idea. I've been prone to write a multitude of Chrono fanquels, so it's nice to see that this concept is well received, since it was my favorite.
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That's unfortunate. We need to recruit some younger, less burdened with responsibilities-type, people here to do some legwork for us lol.
Right? I was hoping the Steam release would have brought in some more new blood. :/
If nothing else, thanks for the endorsement of the idea. I've been prone to write a multitude of Chrono fanquels, so it's nice to see that this concept is well received, since it was my favorite.
So there are plan of expansion now
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Believe it or not, this wasn't the concept that I am going to propose. This, I feel, is too tied to Chrono Trigger's plot to adequately be a spiritual sequel (although some of the scenarios can be reutilized).
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Believe it or not, this wasn't the concept that I am going to propose. This, I feel, is too tied to Chrono Trigger's plot to adequately be a spiritual sequel (although some of the scenarios can be reutilized).
oh absolutely, I did not mean to propose in the new spiritual successor, but simply as your own piece.
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Believe it or not, this wasn't the concept that I am going to propose. This, I feel, is too tied to Chrono Trigger's plot to adequately be a spiritual sequel (although some of the scenarios can be reutilized).
oh absolutely, I did not mean to propose in the new spiritual successor, but simply as your own piece.
I'm mostly a lurker here but almost two years ago I posted a thread regarding a Chrono trigger 2 where I made several posts before I got lazy and Lost interest in it (however I'm thinking of reviving it). Regarding main characters I was thinking of Using Chrono Crisis' protagonists Xavier, Matison and Cecilia.
Time Periods I was thinking of using were 1999 AD, 2325 AD, 11975 BC, 7600 BC, 1 AD, 1025 AD, and the end of time (at least). Villains would have been King Zeal who's goal would be to rebuild Zeal but would be unwittingly carrying out Lavos will, and therefore cannot be allowed to succeed. Dalton would be Zeal's deputy but also with an agenda of his own.
Regarding the time periods of the proposed sequel 1999 AD would be fully explored as well as the successor periods to the Chrono trigger eras. There would also be at least two new time periods: 7600 BC and 1 AD.
I also envisaged schala being split in two by a time paradox, with regular Schala being sent to and eventually being rescued from the timestream but with Asteria also having been split from Schala and who was sent to 7650 BC where she builds a Magitek empire (Magitek being objects and elemental weapons that can unlock humans who have latent genetic magic abilities as pure-blood enlightened bloodlines have largely dwindled/died out after the fall of zeal, these also have military uses and a Magitek arms race/global war is the major feature of this period.) over the next 50 years in order to locate and gather up Zealian artifacts (these artifacts are also able to replenish/refuel the magitek weaponry as well) so that she can unlock the sun stone in order to conduct a ritual that would make herself a god as well as being able to locate Janus as well as giving herself the capability that she hopes would be able to destroy lavos/time devourer on her own. This ritual also requires a "downpayment" in mass bloodshed and Asteria has no qualms about doing so in order to advance her preparations; so she is also a Major villain albeit unconnected with King Zeal and Daltons plans.
Janus/Magus would also be a playable character and had returned to 12000 BC after the events of Chrono Trigger and thus can be found in 11975 BC. Finally Schala would be playable once rescued from the timestream. King Zeal and the Time Devourer would be the proposed final bosses of the game.
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Time Periods I was thinking of using were 1999 AD, 2325 AD, 11975 BC, 7600 BC, 1 AD, 1025 AD, and the end of time (at least). Villains would have been King Zeal who's goal would be to rebuild Zeal but would be unwittingly carrying out Lavos will, and therefore cannot be allowed to succeed. Dalton would be Zeal's deputy but also with an agenda of his own.
There's some cool ideas around Asteria and the 7600BC era. Did you happen to play Crimson Echoes? You may like what they did with King Zeal in that game. :)
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Time Periods I was thinking of using were 1999 AD, 2325 AD, 11975 BC, 7600 BC, 1 AD, 1025 AD, and the end of time (at least). Villains would have been King Zeal who's goal would be to rebuild Zeal but would be unwittingly carrying out Lavos will, and therefore cannot be allowed to succeed. Dalton would be Zeal's deputy but also with an agenda of his own.
There's some cool ideas around Asteria and the 7600BC era. Did you happen to play Crimson Echoes? You may like what they did with King Zeal in that game. :)
I Watched the playthrough on youtube, I do have the game though but so far I'm near the beginning of the game having only gotten to when the party first meets frog again and first visit the Medina continent with the vanguard.
Regarding Asteria I actually happened to be inspired to write about my ideas about her and 7600 BC because just yesterday I happened to stumble on the net on believe it or not the movie trailers for the new sci-fi/dystopian film Mortal Engines. What seems to be The plot for that film just happened to have a similar trajectory as my Ideas for Asteria and the 7600 BC era. Although Mortal Engines has obvious differences from Chrono Trigger though.