Chrono Compendium
Enhasa Halls - Chrono Series Analysis => Characters, Plot, and Themes => Topic started by: Kodokami on January 01, 2017, 09:05:18 pm
-
I remember reading once that Kato planned to have Crono die for good. I finally found the source. (http://www.tor.com/2015/09/24/chrono-trigger-replay-part-3-a-death-in-the-family/)
Originally, Chrono Trigger writer, Masato Kato, wanted to keep Crono dead. To continue the mission, the party would actually have to recruit a younger version of Crono. But Square deemed it too depressing and requested that the rest of the story be written in a way that he can still be saved.
Is there a source for that, however? Some interview with Kato that I'm missing where he addresses this?
Anyhow, I figure that, if true, this could be good justification as for why Crono appears to be dead in Radical Dreamers; i.e., it's how Masato Kato wanted it, and being a "spin-off" he didn't have Squaresoft looking over his shoulder as closely.
-
Hmm... don´t thinked that... oh my ...
-
I don't know.
But it does sounds reasonable and less cheaty than using the time egg.
-
It's from the CTDS Ultimania Kato interview (https://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Supporting_Material_Translation.html#Masato_Kato_Interview).
Incidentally, the idea that I had at that time was for Crono to really die, and the others would have to go back in time and enlist a version of Crono from the night before the Fair. Then after the final battle they would have to return him to that point in time and bid him farewell. But that idea was rejected (laughs). They said it had to be a happy ending, so we eventually settled on the story with the clone as it is today.
-
Hmm, I suppose even if they were allowed to have used that idea, it would still have been scrapped. Except instead due to the issues that would arise of having a past version of Crono join the party. Both in story and gameplay and stuff. Who knows.
On the other hand, perhaps the fact saving Crono isn't exactly mandatory may have been their "Crono remains dead" compromise.
-
Strange question on this topic though.
If Chrono was dead and a past one was needed, would they still need the time egg? Possibly not, therefore no "Chrono Trigger", and therefore, different title altogether.
-
It's possible the Chrono Trigger might've still been used, but for something else. Of what it is and its purpose might've changed.
-
hmm... with or without but i kill spy... lets ...
So, What is use clone´s before that?
-
Well, the character clones already had a use, in that you can interact with them to change their pose and hear the characters' themes. Most likely getting a Crono clone would just be optional like the rest, instead of required by the storyline.
-
Or are it was after after all? Who knows?
Only way get not is overpowered group, but without any status imp thinks it was too hard...
so...
-
So if Crono originally wasn't intended to die...
...where did the Chrono Trigger come in? The whole focal point of the item is that it's used to saved Crono. Was it still a conceptual item there, used at a different time or for a different reason? Or was it invented (and thus the namesake followed only after it was decided Crono could be revived) after the fact?
-
My biggest question about the concept of retrieving younger (pre-Millenial Fair) Crono has more to do with gameplay than the actual story: what would the developers have done about him being knocked back to experience level 1?
It would kind of defeat the purpose of reviving your strongest character if he lost all his strength in the process. And this younger Crono wouldn't even know the rest of the party besides Lucca, which would thwart reviving him for sentimental reasons as well.
Perhaps the Chrono Trigger was originally meant to transfer the older Crono's memories into the younger one's head? So that he'd regain his previous level and rapport with the party?
-
I would think that was another reason it got changed.
Hmm, transfering the memories and stuff... that would've brought quite the interesting consequences once he was returned to his own time. Unless the CT would also be used to remove all that beforehand. Still fascinating to think about.
-
^ Anyway, Only way wich i have win that Lavos was one these new games+,
It need also 3 status keepers, so, Are Crono suppose are looking at near at others get Lavous out? Or are there Lavos original anywhere that that one was kill Crono?
And isn´t Crono was about 40-50 when it dies, back level 1... Oh my :( . Best way is get others get exp so long at crono at back it 30+ levels... and try something good exp place?
Hey... what is Death peak past then? Was it originally? (although it one (difficult get) place was good exp take place... ). What i was used get enough level at these side missions...(Nds).
-
You have to be careful with speculating. We don’t know how early into development that proposal was, and how many of the familiar elements had been conceptualized, whether from the final game or even the pre-release.
From the pre-release text translations, we know that by November 1994, they had already started writing the text for receiving the time egg from Gaspar, so presumably most of the revival quest details (other than Belthasar) had been settled by those final months.
Hey... what is Death peak past then? Was it originally?
At one stage of development, there was no Death Peak. At least, that’s what a note in the untranslated Dream Team interview from the V-Jump Player's Guide says. I forget exactly what I read through Google Translate, but that section had Toriyama talking about how he didn’t follow directions and drew a fire sword instead of an ice sword, and a mention there weren’t any snowy mountains in the game. I should dig up my partial transcription so you can see for yourself.
Edit:
From page 151
イラストと同じ場面をゲームの中に作るのって大変じゃなかったですか。
坂口：構図は多少変っちゃいますけどわ、イメージとして、このイラストをゲーム画面にしたらこうなるだろうなっていう形で連想できるレベルまでは近づけました。森なら森の背景を描くときに背景のデザイナーの目の前にそのイラスト貼るんですよ。で「最終的にこのシーンが作れるような森にして」っていうオーダーだったんです。
鳥山：逆にそれが足かせになっちゃったりしないですか。
坂口：ただ全部のシーンじゃないですから。全体の１／３くらいですかね。この雪原がね、ちょっと難しいんです。雪山がないらしくて。
（※対談の時点では死の山は存在しなかった）
鳥山：これはわ、注文と逆にやっちゃったんです。本当は「氷の剣で」って注文だったんですけど、剣はもともと氷みたいなものですから、氷にするのは難しかった。だから逆に炎にしちゃったんですよ。
-
Wait, there's been no translation for that?
Hmm...
-
Well here's google translate for you, which I find amusing, I think they were talking about the game box cover though:
Was it difficult to make the same scene as the illustration in the game?
Sakaguchi: Although the composition changes somewhat, as an image, I brought it closer to the level that can be associated with this illustration as a game screen if it can be associated with it. If you are a forest you draw illustrations on the front of the background designer when drawing the background of the forest. It was an order that "make it a forest that can make this scene eventually".
Toriyama: Does not that make it a fool?
Sakaguchi: It's just not all scenes. Is it about 1/3 of the whole? This snowy field is a little difficult. It seems there is no snowy mountain.
(* There was no mountain of death at the time of dialogue)
Toriyama: This was the opposite of ordering. Actually, I was ordering "with a sword of ice", but since the sword was originally like ice, it was difficult to make it to ice. That's why I turned it into a flame.
-
That's strange. I always assumed when Toriyama drew the picture used for the box art, he was working from an early build of the game in which Marle used fire magic. Check out the top left screenshot: https://www.chronocompendium.com/images/wiki/b/b3/Chronotriggeregmpage2.jpg
But if the artwork was already finished before Death Peak was added, and Toriyama's orders had been to draw an ice sword, then the developers must have already decided early on to give Marle ice magic. Yet that screenshot must have been taken some time after this interview, since the scene is clearly happening on a snowy mountain. So why is Marle shown casting a fire spell if she had already been assigned ice? Was this screenshot just a promotional mockup made to match the artwork, rather than the other way around?
-
Seems that's exactly it- he did it for the looks, not the accuracy.
-
Hm, now I wonder about Arc/Frost Impulse...
I mean, the artwork is clearly the tripple tech. Even the in-game animation uses flames, despite Ice II being one of the components.
-
Ah, that probably explains it. The triple tech uses flame sprites which flicker between blue and red, and the screenshot was taken while they were red. So it probably was an actual in-game shot rather than a mockup, but was taken some time after Toriyama had already finished the drawing, so neither was an influence on the other.
In 22 years I've never noticed the blue/red flicker. Thanks for pointing it out!
-
Well, not quite.
At least, in the finished product, the flames only appear on Crono's sword. Marle sends a sparkle instead that turns into the flames. Also, that screenshot has Frog unconscious, so it can't be the tripple tech anyway. If anything, it looks more like the Flame Sword double tech.
-
At the beginning of the attack, Frog lays down to allow Crono to jump off his back (at least that's how I interpret it—maybe he falls down from the effort of throwing Crono instead?), which uses his unconscious sprite. However, he stands back up well before the flames appear, so it doesn't completely match the magazine screenshot. At this stage of development, they were probably still using lots of placeholders while they ironed everything out, so Marle's contribution to the attack might have used Lucca's Fire Sword animation. I'm guessing the picture does represent an early version of Arc Impulse, though.
We'll probably never know for sure, but I think it's fun to speculate on stuff like this. :)
-
Whoa, look at that fire there... interesting...
-
That alpha screenshot was actually translated (as seen on the supporting material translation page), confirming it's supposed to be Arc Impulse. Meanwhile, accompanying images on another page of the V-Jump interview (page 158) pairs a screenshot of Crono and Marle using of the Ice Sword techs on Krakker with an uncolored version of the artwork.
This is the side description for the latter:
坂口さんが「難しい」といっていた雪山のシーンも、スタッフの努力により、ここまで同じ雰囲気のもが作られたのだ。
Seems to just be talking about the snowy environment, not the battle.
-
Somehow, simply translating the screenshot's text never occurred to me. :picardno
-
Back to the original topic, I don't know if killing off Crono permanenly would be a gpod idea, but I will admit that having him die and not be replaced would serve as an interesting meaning of the title itself.
Instead of the Chrono Trigger being the egg, Crono would be the trigger for the party to go on.
-
I remember reading once that Kato planned to have Crono die for good. I finally found the source. (http://www.tor.com/2015/09/24/chrono-trigger-replay-part-3-a-death-in-the-family/)
Originally, Chrono Trigger writer, Masato Kato, wanted to keep Crono dead. To continue the mission, the party would actually have to recruit a younger version of Crono. But Square deemed it too depressing and requested that the rest of the story be written in a way that he can still be saved.
Is there a source for that, however? Some interview with Kato that I'm missing where he addresses this?
Anyhow, I figure that, if true, this could be good justification as for why Crono appears to be dead in Radical Dreamers; i.e., it's how Masato Kato wanted it, and being a "spin-off" he didn't have Squaresoft looking over his shoulder as closely.
All great warriors have enemies that try to kill them off for good. It's a hard thing to do if the warriors fate is greater than those that attempt to kill them, even supposed creators of supposed fantasy realms.
-
I remember reading once that Kato planned to have Crono die for good. I finally found the source. (http://www.tor.com/2015/09/24/chrono-trigger-replay-part-3-a-death-in-the-family/)
Originally, Chrono Trigger writer, Masato Kato, wanted to keep Crono dead. To continue the mission, the party would actually have to recruit a younger version of Crono. But Square deemed it too depressing and requested that the rest of the story be written in a way that he can still be saved.
Is there a source for that, however? Some interview with Kato that I'm missing where he addresses this?
Anyhow, I figure that, if true, this could be good justification as for why Crono appears to be dead in Radical Dreamers; i.e., it's how Masato Kato wanted it, and being a "spin-off" he didn't have Squaresoft looking over his shoulder as closely.
All great warriors have enemies that try to kill them off for good. It's a hard thing to do if the warriors fate is greater than those that attempt to kill them, even supposed creators of supposed fantasy realms.
I think youre right... MAYBE?
-
I remember reading once that Kato planned to have Crono die for good. I finally found the source. (http://www.tor.com/2015/09/24/chrono-trigger-replay-part-3-a-death-in-the-family/)
Originally, Chrono Trigger writer, Masato Kato, wanted to keep Crono dead. To continue the mission, the party would actually have to recruit a younger version of Crono. But Square deemed it too depressing and requested that the rest of the story be written in a way that he can still be saved.
Is there a source for that, however? Some interview with Kato that I'm missing where he addresses this?
Anyhow, I figure that, if true, this could be good justification as for why Crono appears to be dead in Radical Dreamers; i.e., it's how Masato Kato wanted it, and being a "spin-off" he didn't have Squaresoft looking over his shoulder as closely.
I'm not surprised. Kato in general took a darker, more somber approach to the story. iirc Kato was responsible for the Zeal arc, in which the main character is killed and an entire civilization is destroyed. He was also a major influence on Chrono Cross, a game which completely lacks the upbeat character of CT.
-
I remember reading once that Kato planned to have Crono die for good. I finally found the source. (http://www.tor.com/2015/09/24/chrono-trigger-replay-part-3-a-death-in-the-family/)
Originally, Chrono Trigger writer, Masato Kato, wanted to keep Crono dead. To continue the mission, the party would actually have to recruit a younger version of Crono. But Square deemed it too depressing and requested that the rest of the story be written in a way that he can still be saved.
Is there a source for that, however? Some interview with Kato that I'm missing where he addresses this?
Anyhow, I figure that, if true, this could be good justification as for why Crono appears to be dead in Radical Dreamers; i.e., it's how Masato Kato wanted it, and being a "spin-off" he didn't have Squaresoft looking over his shoulder as closely.
I'm not surprised. Kato in general took a darker, more somber approach to the story. iirc Kato was responsible for the Zeal arc, in which the main character is killed and an entire civilization is destroyed. He was also a major influence on Chrono Cross, a game which completely lacks the upbeat character of CT.
Oh my... don´t get that... sorry.
-
I'm not surprised. Kato in general took a darker, more somber approach to the story. iirc Kato was responsible for the Zeal arc, in which the main character is killed and an entire civilization is destroyed. He was also a major influence on Chrono Cross, a game which completely lacks the upbeat character of CT.
I agree with you about Chrono Cross. I do like it, but like you said, it just lacks the upbeat character of Chrono Trigger. I'm glad the game ended the way it did and that you could revive Crono. That would've really sucked if you weren't able to. I'm sitting here thinking about it and I can't imagine Chrono Trigger without being able to revive Crono. The thought makes me feel sad. :(
-
I'm not surprised. Kato in general took a darker, more somber approach to the story. iirc Kato was responsible for the Zeal arc, in which the main character is killed and an entire civilization is destroyed. He was also a major influence on Chrono Cross, a game which completely lacks the upbeat character of CT.
I agree with you about Chrono Cross. I do like it, but like you said, it just lacks the upbeat character of Chrono Trigger. I'm glad the game ended the way it did and that you could revive Crono. That would've really sucked if you weren't able to. I'm sitting here thinking about it and I can't imagine Chrono Trigger without being able to revive Crono. The thought makes me feel sad. :(
Yeah... again good points.