Chrono Compendium

Kajar Laboratories - Fan Works and Submissions => Chrono Cross Modification => Topic started by: Grobycftw on November 26, 2016, 01:02:35 pm

Title: Chrono Cross Hard Hack
Post by: Grobycftw on November 26, 2016, 01:02:35 pm
Hi guys! First of all I wanna thank everyone on this forum for sharing their wisdom and time innovating on this Game! Chrono's game is such a fantastic universe, its part of my childhood and I will always enjoy talking/thinking about it!
*Sorry if sometimes my writing seems a bit odd, as english isn't my first language Ill try to do my best!

This a topic about the hack me and my brother are working on.
Here's a list of content we want/will change : 

All enemies stats, element they use, drop/steal will be change, possibly the battlescript for a couple of boss (if its not too complicated), will add stars/boss, All Main character stats and stats growth will be rebalanced, some will have different signature move (ex: Dash&slash), element grid allocation will be modified (possibly the order you can unlock them). We made Slash 100% Playable (will replace Pierre! and we have make a super cool artwork for the rectangle in menu ^^ ill upload it so u guys can enjoy it to). Replace a few main characters by enemies like (Funguy => Dwarfy, Doc => Marbule Sage, Orcha  => Dark Orcha). Will change a few main character looks (mostly clothe's colors). Add New weapon/armor/accessory, change their prices, changing the shop goods, and Blacksmith forgables. Change some element, allowing enemies signature move to be use like an ordinary element!(like icebreath, CrashPulse, OmegaWhite, OmegaBlue..). All the battle starting color fields will be modified ;) . I think this wrapped up most of what we have edit for now!

Some element will be modified like Hellsoul => AnimateDead, here's a little example!

Slash image isn't the last version but it should look pretty similar to this one, we're really trying to make it as if it was made for the game!

All of this is on the work/some is 100% done!
Now for the few things we still have trouble with like : Import new model for weapons, Unlock the doors of time so it can be accessed through a normal game, make Dario fully playable (adding space for model seems to be quite a challenge at the moment, I know some people here on the forum are also working on the same issues! We'll get it guys don't give up ^^!). And changing the Chests content. Those are the few remaining things were having problem with. If you have any tips or knowledge on these matter, feel free to let us know :D , ill be updating here and there when we complete a new step! Thx you for reading this topic!
Title: Re: Chrono Cross Hard Hack
Post by: prizvel on November 26, 2016, 01:54:54 pm
Great. I see you're registered on compedium. Welcome)
(My acc "chrono mania" in youtobe )
Title: Re: Chrono Cross Hard Hack
Post by: alfadorredux on November 26, 2016, 08:22:06 pm
It's been a while, but I think one of the problems with playable-Dario was that his model's texture (not the model itself) is too large for a PC model texture and has to be scaled down to fit in the allowable space.
Title: Re: Chrono Cross Hard Hack
Post by: Grobycftw on November 26, 2016, 10:50:35 pm
Hi Prizz ^^! Glad I can share stuff with you now :D

Indeed Dario has 2 texture just like most of the bosses, but what were trying to do is for example : Grobyc who has a 21 sector long model, and Dario with 31, I can't just simply replace Grobyc by Dario, I would either have to make dario's model fit the exact length (that would mean changing joint/bone and everything so that it fit "Too Hard") or edit the lines where it allows the length of specific models. (which we cant seems to find xd )

but lets take radius with 33 sector wide, its an easy match, you can insert dario in radius allowed space and it works 100%. but replacing radius in the story becomes another challenge xd! anyhow well manage something i'm quite confident about it :) 
Title: Re: Chrono Cross Hard Hack
Post by: utunnels on November 27, 2016, 09:35:42 am
Nope, it is not about model size, but the textures have to find a place in video ram, which is currently lacking. In theory we can remap the model, make new textures and weapons, though none of those are easy job to do.

Edit* If you don't want Dario to equip other weapons though, things will be a lot easier.

Edit2* I recall I sent a PM to maybe prizvel(?) about how to edit Dario's model to give him an external weapon model. But I don't have the message currently.  :o

This is how the Einlanzer should look in Dario's hand, have not tested in game though.
Title: Re: Chrono Cross Hard Hack
Post by: Grobycftw on November 27, 2016, 05:10:59 pm
Oh I see, you're right adding weapon for dario would be a tough job to do. (Amazing what you did on the model viewer, seems pretty cool!) im still unfamiliar with editing either weapon model/texture (mapping) or Characters model, my brother worked with 3DS max so he have a better base on that subject. I've read a good part of you're post on these matter. We got the model import script for Blender (luckily I have a good friend that helped me with the python script so it works) but we still have a lot to learn!
Title: Re: Chrono Cross Hard Hack
Post by: prizvel on November 28, 2016, 03:45:58 am
utunnels Yes, you wrote to me:
If you can manage to give him a weapon, then the rest is possible. You can remove the masamune from his second texture, the change the bytes behind 0x68c0 to below:

00 04 00 04 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 07 00 00 00

I didn't test it in game, this is how it looks in blender:

However if you want to make a masamune model, there must be a tool to convert models.

But I have not tested it, my goal was to retrieve the Masamune
Title: Re: Chrono Cross Hard Hack
Post by: utunnels on November 28, 2016, 11:15:42 am
I see, the idea is to change the weapon joint to where his right hand is so he can actually wield an external weapon.
There will be problem in his tech animations though. For example,  he throws the sword which is part of his model. Might need some change in the animation data as well.
Title: Re: Chrono Cross Hard Hack
Post by: EgyLynx on November 29, 2016, 05:47:40 pm
anyway... What i seen these play thinks, that first boss was just easy if at get fight so long at these two get not ups... Then someone said at best to get rest at home and fight up... and check elements...  But... after that, game really begin... But there wasn´t do changeds at easy level or hard level....

Title: Re: Chrono Cross Hard Hack
Post by: Grobycftw on November 30, 2016, 01:35:57 pm
You're right Utunnel, I didn't even thought about the ConductaRod element :picardno

I'm not sure about what I can reply on Egy but you got me thinking, the way your characters stats growth during the game (especially at the beginning) can influence the difficulty A LOT, here's a small list of statistic Stats I made, I should do like 10x that in order to be fixed :o

Title: Re: Chrono Cross Hard Hack
Post by: Yourgingerestfan on January 23, 2017, 07:32:15 am
A lot of these changes sound like a project from way back when, especially ...Dwarfy. Gonna wait to see how this plays it and what resources you end up using if any.
Title: Re: Chrono Cross Hard Hack
Post by: lockgar on March 06, 2017, 06:22:11 pm
Did anyone ever make a playstation file explorer, or is everyone reading the disk with a hex editor and guessing randomly. I've just been reading around, and I see mention that square would effectively, put files into zip files, and then zip all those file for a double layer of encypting. I would assume they didn't just zip them but my question is, did you guys already figure all this out? I see the model posts and now I'm hoping for some high res high poly models. There are even listed bye offsets and what they effect.  :kamina Mine don't match.  :?
Title: Re: Chrono Cross Hard Hack
Post by: alfadorredux on March 06, 2017, 09:56:44 pm
99% of the files on the discs have been identified, at least in general terms, and the findings are in the Encyclopedia. There are some unpacking tools of various levels of ability that can extract the files from disc images--see the "Chrono Cross Toolsets" thread about halfway down this forum.

The high-poly models used in the FMV sequences are not on the discs. The models that have been extracted are the battle and overworld models, including texture and animation data. Inserting modified models should theoretically be possible, but no one's done it yet as far as I know. The Blender plugin for Cross is load-only--we can't export models back to the CC format yet--so modifying a model in a sensical way would be difficult.

Does that help?
Title: Re: Chrono Cross Hard Hack
Post by: lockgar on March 08, 2017, 03:55:12 am
A bit, whats stopping you from turnning it back into the CC format? Did square use its own custom model file type?
Title: Re: Chrono Cross Hard Hack
Post by: alfadorredux on March 08, 2017, 06:02:45 pm
Yes, Square used a custom format. Much of it has been deciphered, but there are some quirks that make it difficult to convert to anything else (the rigging for animations is...weird). utunnels wrote custom code to load the models into Blender, and no one's tackled the matching export code yet.

So if you want to insert new models into the game, your first step is probably to learn Python so you can write an export plugin for Blender.
Title: Re: Chrono Cross Hard Hack
Post by: lockgar on March 11, 2017, 12:24:14 am
Website ate my forum post. It was a long one too. I'll just make a summaries it.

Been coding for years, I've used python for many projects. Just an issue of syntax.
Is it possible to put high res textures like how n64 rom hacks have done? I remember people saying that it wasn't possible for playstation moding, but that was years ago. Is it even possible for higher polygon models? I don't think I ever saw any n64 mod project ever actually change with "HD models". Even if it was possible though, would there still be an issue with the "playstation hardware limit" the emulator is trying to emulate?

I'm wondering if the .mdl files where the same file format as the quake games, given the time frame, also if there is a limit to them it would probably be in the same ball park as below.

Here are some constant values defining maximal dimensions:

Maximum number of triangles: 2048
Maximum number of vertices: 1024
Maximum number of texture coordinates: 1024
Maximum number of frames: 256
Number of precalculated normal vectors: 162

However, I was more interested in moding more "under the hood" type of things, like having 4 people in your party. Even if they only appear in combat. I something tells me it would require more then just changing a few values.
Title: Re: Chrono Cross Hard Hack
Post by: alfadorredux on March 11, 2017, 09:59:51 am
We assigned (actually, that may even be "I assigned", but it was a long time ago and I don't remember) the .mdl extension because it was an obvious abbreviation of "model", not because of any connection to anyone else's format. Unless Quake uses arbitrarily mixed triangles and quads, and stores the skeletal rig as a series of joints rather than bones, they're unlikely to be a match.

I can't remember the exact texture size CC uses (it's fixed, may be different for overworld vs. combat models, PCs always have one texture only, some NPCs have more), and have no idea whether the size was mandated by the hardware or arbitrarily selected by Square. Someone at might be able to point you in the direction of better hardware information for the PSX, though.

As for increasing the size of the party...yeah, you're in uncharted territory there. Little work has been done on the program executables--we know that they're the files at the beginning of the disc, and a couple of the routines have been tentatively identified, plus some people have found pointer forests or other embedded bits and pieces, but that's it. Successful modification would probably require a knowledge of PSX assembler and/or a debugging emulator, which is out of my scope at this time.