Chrono Compendium

Enhasa Halls - Chrono Series Analysis => Magic, Elements, and Technology => Topic started by: Sentenal on August 14, 2005, 12:27:30 am

Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Sentenal on August 14, 2005, 12:27:30 am
What I got from Spekkio was that everyone could use magic, and the frozen flame evolved the human ablitiy to use magic.  But that brings me to my question:  In other threads, I see people talking about Person X being an Innate, different from Zealians, who simply relied on the Mammon Machine.  But what makes someone an Innate?  What does that actually mean to be an Innate?
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Kuroikaze on August 14, 2005, 04:45:04 am
Who can say? People say that everyone is capable of ESP, but not everyone can do it.

You can't deny the existence of a 6th sense in some people, just knowing when something is going to happen, having uncanny instances of intuition, "feeling" someone following you.

It could be that Innates are the rare and in the future almost impossible mutation where someone uses more of their brain then 10%, and like people who have been documented to see magnetic fields similar to those in Kleiner photography, can see elemental forces, and use their mind to manipulate them.
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: DeweyisOverrated on August 14, 2005, 10:39:49 am
"Innate" isn't a proper noun.  It's used by saying, "Someone's innate color/element is _________".  Everyone has some sort of innate color.  The best way I can describe it is what your body is most finely tuned to.  For example, Marle and Frog's innate color would be blue.  Someone who is raised inside of a volcano, their innate color would probably be red.  "Innate" isn't a title, like a Zealian or Arnian, etc.  It's almost like saying "default".
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: DeweyisOverrated on August 14, 2005, 10:48:25 am
After reading through the Lavos/Entity forum, I thought you might be refering to this quote:

Quote
Well, most of the magic using humans who were innates were taken out in the fall of Zeal. The Mystics never had a population crisis like that.


Which is understandable how you could be confused.  But the idea remains the same.  "Innate" basically means "default".  In this case, people who were "innates" were born with the ability to use magic.  It's still the same idea.  You could also say that the Larubans from 65Mil B.C. innately had lots of physical strength.

Just keep in mind, when people say "innate" in these forums, they usually refer to CC and a person's innate color.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: GrayLensman on August 14, 2005, 01:39:07 pm
Quote from: Sentenal
What I got from Spekkio was that everyone could use magic, and the frozen flame evolved the human ablitiy to use magic.  But that brings me to my question:  In other threads, I see people talking about Person X being an Innate, different from Zealians, who simply relied on the Mammon Machine.  But what makes someone an Innate?  What does that actually mean to be an Innate?


From "Magic in CT and CC:"

Quote from: Aitrus
As for their loss of powers, could it be that the actual "innate" magic power is actually much rarer, and that only a few actually posess it? It could be that the founders of Zeal were such "innates," and they created the Sun Stone and other such devices in order to amplify their powers. Their children, however, didn't have the "innate" ability, but the Sun Stone imbued them with magical powers, albeit weaker ones, so that the Zealians didn't know the difference. Most likely both Schala and Janus were "innates," explaining their magical strength and why they could use it outside of the Zeal timeframe. This also explains why the normal Zealians could no longer use magic after the Mammon Machine was destroyed.


Quote from: GrayLensman
Queen Zeal, Schala, Janus, Dalton, the Gurus, Crono, Marle, Lucca, Frog, and some of the Mystics are all innate magic users, with their abilities granted to them by Lavos' genetic manipulations. They access elemental forces directly, with no intermediaries involved.
 
 The majority of the Enlightened Ones had no physical distinction from the Earthbound Ones. All of humanity at that time had a limited magical property given to them by Lavos, but they could not use magic unaided. The inhabitants of Zeal were granted special powers through use of the Sun Stone and/or the Mammon Machine.
 
 When Zeal fell, the mechanisms drawing power from the Sun Stone and Mammon Machine failed, so the non-innate Zealians lost their abilities and became the same as the Earthbound Ones. The Innate magic users were completely unaffected by the change.


After Lavos arrived in 65 million BC, humans were given varying degrees of Magical ability.

Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Azarath on August 29, 2005, 08:22:46 pm
Thants what I do. Innate is CC and Element is CT (pretty much). Although there are, 'Elements' in CC, they aren't really, 'elements' at all.
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: V_Translanka on August 30, 2005, 03:13:56 am
Yeah, but CC Elements would still be ruled by the fact that even they are composed of the CT Elements, like everything else.

Spekkio says that he's giving Frog Water because, well, he's a frog...And that people's CT Element is based on their inner character.
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Paradox on February 11, 2006, 12:54:24 pm
Quote from: V_Translanka
Yeah, but CC Elements would still be ruled by the fact that even they are composed of the CT Elements, like everything else.

Spekkio says that he's giving Frog Water because, well, he's a frog...And that people's CT Element is based on their inner character.


I like to work more with the "inner character" idea then just outer appearance or physical appearance. Spikko talks like a jolly ol' nut sometimes, but I'm sure he gave Glenn water magic for much more of a reason then he's cursed to look like a frog. Glenn was always bashful, but strong, a good friend and a willful foe. Water just seems to work with him.  The linking of elements to the inner character of the person unlocking his/her magical ability souly makes a lot more sense to me... despite how humorous it feels to me to think that Spikko made Crono a lightning wielder just because his hair looks like the worst case of early-morning static ever  :mrgreen:
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: ChronoMagus on February 11, 2006, 02:19:35 pm
It has to do with inner character for sure... Lucca = Fire cuz fire is passion and Lucca has passion in everything she makes and does.
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: GrayLensman on February 11, 2006, 10:28:57 pm
Quote from: Paradox
I like to work more with the "inner character" idea then just outer appearance or physical appearance. Spikko talks like a jolly ol' nut sometimes, but I'm sure he gave Glenn water magic for much more of a reason then he's cursed to look like a frog. Glenn was always bashful, but strong, a good friend and a willful foe. Water just seems to work with him.  The linking of elements to the inner character of the person unlocking his/her magical ability souly makes a lot more sense to me... despite how humorous it feels to me to think that Spikko made Crono a lightning wielder just because his hair looks like the worst case of early-morning static ever  :mrgreen:


I don't think a person's element correlates to their personality.  I would also say that Spekkio didn't give Crono lightning magic, but rather unlocked the magical talent which was already part of his nature.
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: CyberSarkany on February 12, 2006, 12:11:43 pm
After Spekkio unlocked magic, Gaspar says something like there was a time when everyone had this magic abbility. But in Zeal, they say their kind of magic is different to the party'. But who of them would be innate?
I think you could see Frog for example as blue innate, because he has a natural resistance to water attacks(same with the other magic users).
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: SilentMartyr on February 14, 2006, 02:37:19 pm
Quote from: CyberSarkany
After Spekkio unlocked magic, Gaspar says something like there was a time when everyone had this magic abbility. But in Zeal, they say their kind of magic is different to the party'. But who of them would be innate?
I think you could see Frog for example as blue innate, because he has a natural resistance to water attacks(same with the other magic users).


Here are the two quotes you are talking about:

Quote
[Young Woman]
   Your power differs from ours...
   
   In you I sense a strange aura
   of...kindness...


Quote
[Young Woman]
   My, you've got an unusual aura!
   So, you must possess the skill, too!

   It must be very primitive compared to
   ours!
   You poor things!


It is believed that because the group's magic doesn't rely on Lavos's energy it gives off a different "aura". It is apparent that Zealians have the ability to sense if someone has magical powers.

One could argue the other way around, saying that since thier innate was unlocked that type of magical energy harms them less.
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Darth Mongoose on February 15, 2006, 05:21:14 am
I think a person's innate element is to do with their inherent character traits. In fact, a few years back, I made a little quiz based on what I'd observed in Chrono Cross!
http://quizilla.com/users/darthmongoose/quizzes/What's%20your%20Chrono%20Cross%20innate%20element%3F/

If I redid the quiz of course, I'd take into account that really, Crono is more
likely to be a white innate than a yellow (not really sure, could be either).
But generally (there are some exceptions, but in general):
White/Heaven element are spiritually in tune, insightful and benevolent, but naive.
Black/Dark are intellegent and organised, but scheming and self serving.
Red/Fire are passionate and creative, but hot tempered.
Blue/Water are nurturing, level headed and brave, but hard to fathom.
Yellow/Earth are homely, stoic guardians who like the simple things.
Green/Air are lofty and adventurous and can be loners.
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: CyberSarkany on February 15, 2006, 10:10:04 am
This could also be a different way:
If you are born with white innate, then your personality might become this insightful stuff.
Innate may change the way the personality is developed(wrong word I bet).
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: AuraTwilight on February 15, 2006, 06:47:07 pm
Or maybe the personality determines the Innate, because I doubt Schala is a Red Innate.
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Chrono'99 on February 15, 2006, 07:17:18 pm
Quote from: AuraTwilight
Or maybe the personality determines the Innate, because I doubt Schala is a Red Innate.

We don't know Schala's innate color. It's entirely possible that she'd be a Red innate just like Kid.
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Darth Mongoose on February 15, 2006, 08:28:10 pm
We know very little about Schala. Though she is wise, pure and insighful seeming, like a white innate, she still shows some traits of a red innate,such as she makes decisions based on her own feelings and is passionate, she does things on spur of the moment.
Theories:
Schala toned down her personality because she's from Zeal, where everything and everybody is very calm. By Zealian standards, she probably is quite wild and fiery, going to see the earthbounds even though she isn't supposed to etc. She just comes across as being very calm and gentle to Lucca (I say Lucca, since she's the one who mentions it in her letter in CC).
Kid, on the other hand, having the same innately fiery and passionate nature, but raised by another Red innate, Lucca, in a much less subdued environment she ended up with a much more prominent and obviously fire aligned nature.

Theory 2:
When the clone, Kid, was made, she had a different innate. Perhaps because she was born from Schala's passion, she was created as a fiery, passionate girl. Or maybe it was random? Maybe some higher power, or even Schala herself was aware that only a driving, passionate personality would be able to set events in motion.

Theory 3:
Element isn't set at birth, it becomes only set when the person's personality begins to form. Kid became a fire innate like Lucca though emulating her guardian's passionate nature.
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: ChronoMagus on February 15, 2006, 09:38:01 pm
I think that innate color is based on environment...  look at Magus.  Yes he was probably a black from birth, but after the Ocean Palace his darkness became stronger and much more powerful.  He became the strongest mage that existed at 600 AD, if not ever in history.  
Lucca on the other hand, daughter of a "great" inventor, was in a household filled with ambition.  Plus after seeing what happened to her mother, Lucca developed a true passion that one day she could fix what had happened.
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Zaperking on February 16, 2006, 01:21:00 am
Quote from: Chrono'99
Quote from: AuraTwilight
Or maybe the personality determines the Innate, because I doubt Schala is a Red Innate.

We don't know Schala's innate color. It's entirely possible that she'd be a Red innate just like Kid.


Not quite.

Kid is a copy of Schala. Harle is a copy of Schala.
Kid is red. Harle is black. Harle's body is that of Schala. If we're taking it as genetics, then Harle would be red if Kid mimics Schala. She does not. At most, Harle should be the 7th element being the last dragon. She is not.

Now, magic innate wise - Zeal was shadow innate (most likely), Magus is too so it is highely likely that Schala is, besides the fact that she can use the other 3 innates.

Basically, This shows that Schala can't be red, or just red.
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Chrono'99 on February 16, 2006, 07:52:49 am
Quote from: Zaperking
Quote from: Chrono'99
Quote from: AuraTwilight
Or maybe the personality determines the Innate, because I doubt Schala is a Red Innate.

We don't know Schala's innate color. It's entirely possible that she'd be a Red innate just like Kid.


Not quite.

Kid is a copy of Schala. Harle is a copy of Schala.
Kid is red. Harle is black. Harle's body is that of Schala. If we're taking it as genetics, then Harle would be red if Kid mimics Schala. She does not. At most, Harle should be the 7th element being the last dragon. She is not.

Now, magic innate wise - Zeal was black innate (most likely), Magus is so it is highely likely that Schala is, besides the fact that she can use the other 3 innates.

Basically, This shows that Schala can't be red, or just red.

Harle being a copy of Schala is just a theory. We don't know the exact connection between Harle and Schala (clone? "copy"? part? etc.). What we do know is that Harle is, partly or entirely, a product of the Dragon God(s). Since the Dragon God(s) has(have) all innate colors, it's normal that Harle was able to be of any innate color (she either was Black or "Chrono Cross"). Schala's innate color isn't important since the Dragon Gods have all innate colors anyway.
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: GrayLensman on February 16, 2006, 10:37:56 am
Innate colour in Chrono Cross is not the same as element in Chrono Trigger.
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: CyberSarkany on February 16, 2006, 12:16:41 pm
Do you become innate by being born or something else? By being born would mean innate is before the person develops the personality, not the other way around.
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Zaperking on February 16, 2006, 04:29:55 pm
Quote from: CyberSarkany
Do you become innate by being born or something else? By being born would mean innate is before the person develops the personality, not the other way around.


If that was the case, Wazuki would be black, and I hardly doubt he could pull off black. Lynx on the other hand - intergrated by FATE and it's almighty power - is Black. It's either by personality or will. Birth shouldn't be able to decide it, unless it's for Magic innate. I personally would have thought of Wazuki as Green/Yellow or Blue.
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Darth Mongoose on February 16, 2006, 07:45:17 pm
There's nothing to suggest that innate colour or element is hereditary. Siblings and parents of characters don't seem to, as a rule, share the same colour/element.
Personally I think that though elements and colours are different things that they probably operate in the same way. The innate nature of a person determines their elemental alignment. The magic used in Chrono Cross is artificial magic, but I think it follows a lot of the same rules and the same elements work well for people as with magic, since both come from personality or nature.
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: V_Translanka on February 16, 2006, 10:40:33 pm
Maybe Spekkio IS the Entity because Spekkio is actually, like, the physical manisfestation (does that look wrong because it's wrong or because i've never written manifestation before?) of the earth!

 :shock:  8) whoa like Keanu-style
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Tonjevic on February 17, 2006, 03:12:30 am
Quote from: V_Translanka
Maybe Spekkio IS the Entity because Spekkio is actually, like, the physical manisfestation (does that look wrong because it's wrong or because i've never written manifestation before?) of the earth!

 :shock:  8) whoa like Keanu-style


No, It is because you typed manisfestation, with an S after the I.
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: SilentMartyr on February 17, 2006, 01:46:16 pm
Quote
There's nothing to suggest that innate colour or element is hereditary. Siblings and parents of characters don't seem to, as a rule, share the same colour/element.


I don't know about element (Trigger), but for color (Cross) Fargo, Nikki, and Marcy are all blue. That seems to be some pretty strong evidence there.
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Chrono'99 on February 17, 2006, 02:02:53 pm
Quote from: SilentMartyr
Quote
There's nothing to suggest that innate colour or element is hereditary. Siblings and parents of characters don't seem to, as a rule, share the same colour/element.


I don't know about element (Trigger), but for color (Cross) Fargo, Nikki, and Marcy are all blue. That seems to be some pretty strong evidence there.

Yeah but Korcha is Blue and Mel is Yellow. Their mother Macha is Red. If innate colors were hereditary, Macha's husband would have to be both Blue and Green, which we know is impossible.

EDIT: ...although, if innate colors depends on genetic material, maybe it could work. Macha's husband could have one apparent innate color (dominant trait) and yet still carry gene(s) of other colors (recessive traits) that he could have passed on to his children.
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: SilentMartyr on February 17, 2006, 02:08:59 pm
Oh yea, I forgot about that. I never use either of them that much.
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Chrono'99 on February 17, 2006, 02:10:11 pm
I edited my post. I guess innate colors could depend on genetics.
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: SilentMartyr on February 17, 2006, 02:14:31 pm
It would be nearly impossible to concieve how that would work genetically without knowing which colors are the recessive.
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Radical_Dreamer on February 17, 2006, 11:11:52 pm
Quote from: SilentMartyr
It would be nearly impossible to concieve how that would work genetically without knowing which colors are the recessive.


We'd need a full dominance heirarchy. The simple, Mendlevian grid that most people are familiar with doesn't take in to account issues such as co-dominance, and the fact that there can be more layers of dominance than just dominant and recessive.
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Chrono'99 on March 02, 2006, 11:40:49 am
Quote from: Chrono'99
Quote from: SilentMartyr
Quote
There's nothing to suggest that innate colour or element is hereditary. Siblings and parents of characters don't seem to, as a rule, share the same colour/element.


I don't know about element (Trigger), but for color (Cross) Fargo, Nikki, and Marcy are all blue. That seems to be some pretty strong evidence there.

Yeah but Korcha is Blue and Mel is Yellow. Their mother Macha is Red. If innate colors were hereditary, Macha's husband would have to be both Blue and Green, which we know is impossible.

EDIT: ...although, if innate colors depends on genetic material, maybe it could work. Macha's husband could have one apparent innate color (dominant trait) and yet still carry gene(s) of other colors (recessive traits) that he could have passed on to his children.

Mmmh (yeah I'm quoting myself)... actually, according to this interview (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Richard_Honeywood_Interview), Mel is supposed to be Korcha's "adopted" sister o_O. I didn't know that...
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: SilentMartyr on March 02, 2006, 02:30:18 pm
Well that makes it a little better, since red and blue are opposites. Possibly red is recessive and blue is dominant?
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: ZeaLitY on March 03, 2006, 03:41:13 pm
Hm, that quiz says I'm a black innate. I'm satisfied, as Guile is my favorite character in the series next to Pierre.
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: USD1 on April 11, 2006, 03:25:30 am
Maybe its something a lot simpler.

When you buy your first element grid you choose the color? Equiping the grid allows you to sense what color your opponent is based on. Perhaps choosing an elemental weakness is the side effect of getting to use magic-like techniques. The only way to change the color is through something extreme since obviously the grid is growing with you. Crono and friends had no elemetal weaknesses as I recall.

The non human monsters obviously didn't buy their grid, the elements made were probably made to copy their skills and thats why they look the same.
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Chrono'99 on April 11, 2006, 05:53:03 am
Quote from: USD1
Maybe its something a lot simpler.

When you buy your first element grid you choose the color? Equiping the grid allows you to sense what color your opponent is based on. Perhaps choosing an elemental weakness is the side effect of getting to use magic-like techniques. The only way to change the color is through something extreme since obviously the grid is growing with you. Crono and friends had no elemetal weaknesses as I recall.

The non human monsters obviously didn't buy their grid, the elements made were probably made to copy their skills and thats why they look the same.

Crono's party didn't have weaknesses but did have resistance against elements (magic elements though of course, not Dragonian Elements). According to the mechanic guide on GameFAQs, Crono was strong against Lightning, Marle and Frog against Water, Lucca and Ayla (!) against Fire, Magus and Robo against Shadow.
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Magus22 on April 11, 2006, 10:56:47 am
Your element is black!
Though not nessesarily evil like Lynx, you are certainly clever and scheming by nature and often self serving. Your power comes from the moon and gravity and you prefer to think alone than be with others.


45 other people got this result!
This quiz has been taken 138 times.
33% of people had this result.
Title: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: ChibiBob on April 13, 2006, 10:24:37 pm
Huh. I just had a brainstorm. (Well, more like a thirty-second downpour, but whatever.) Ayla and Robo, because one existed before contact with the Frozen Flame and the other has no animal genetic code, are pretty much at the same level of progress as the Enlightened who were forced to siphon their magic from Lavos. By utilizing the magic of the other party members in Double or Triple Techs (like Ice Tackle or Giga Volt or what have you), they can basically channel the magic like they were born with the ability. They'd have to be channeling it through something, though, because I don't think Ayla would find it pleasant to be electrocuted every time she went in for the kill.

So, basically the Enlightened Ones are idiots, since a) the evolved creatures of the group (Chrono, Lucca, Marle, and Frog) have the ability to use no-strings-attached magic like the Zealian Royal Family, and b) even Ayla and Robo can use magic to the same extent the Enlightened Ones can, with a mediary (whether it be Lavos or one of the group with innate ability) required to channel the force.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Magus22 on April 24, 2006, 08:25:09 pm
I am not sure about that. Isn't it true that with Chronopolis, guiding everyone through the Record of Fate and with the creation of the elements from the Dragonians, that we have pseudo magic capabilities? Are we born with a random innate elemental color? If everything on El Nido was created on the works of others, the individuals do not possess magic capabilities since they are not related to the Zealians. Crono and company, except for Ayla whos primitive brain hasn't been evolved yet and Robo who for obvious reasons cannot possess magic, can create magic because of their relation to their ancestors of Zeal.It was passed down in the bloodlines of others which would lay dormant until Spekkio unlocked the abilities for our heros, being individuals strong of will who will use these powers to a good cause and not for personal demeanor.

Perhaps it's based on the type of person, Fire innates have a short temper while Yellow innates approach a situation in a calm fashion. Real quick > why does Leah have an innate? Yet she is the mother of Ayla . . . so does Ayla have an innate then?

I was thinking recently about some other things and on the line of what other users here posted about Schala's Magic ability. What would Schala's magic ability be out of the 4 types? Possibly Shadow or maybe Lighting? But does magic work with heredity and genes? If Janus/Magus's magic ability is shadow, then did he inherit them from a gene from King Zeal and Queen Zeal? Or is the whole population of Zeal composed of all Shadow magic users that can control any or all elements?
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Zaperking on April 24, 2006, 10:05:47 pm
Schala's magic didn't deter after the Fall of Zeal, so she probably is innate. I'd say Shadow, because Zeal and Magus have it, and also Schala's sealing power kind of showed it. We haven't seen any other innate seal spells, besides the point that the sealed gate was purpleish, which would represent the shadow around it. I'd also go as far as saying that Magus, Zeal and Schala can use any innate.

As for the Zealians, i'd say the same thing, but they relied to much on the machine, and not their own innate to develop it.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Magus22 on April 25, 2006, 10:54:05 am
So are you saying that even in Zeal, each individual had an innate? Wasn't the innate color attribute only given to the creations of the El Nido life forms? Or are you saying that in general, everyone has an attribute/innate aside from magic capabilities. So obviously El Nido people cannot use magic, but as you referred to Zeal, they have an innate aside from regular magic?
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Zaperking on April 25, 2006, 06:38:30 pm
So are you saying that even in Zeal, each individual had an innate? Wasn't the innate color attribute only given to the creations of the El Nido life forms? Or are you saying that in general, everyone has an attribute/innate aside from magic capabilities. So obviously El Nido people cannot use magic, but as you referred to Zeal, they have an innate aside from regular magic?

Noo, Innate as in Shadow, Fire, Water, Lightning. Through channeling from Lavos, they can achieve usage of all of them, but they probably for that reason lack the usage to use it themselves if they only rely on the machine.

The people from El Nido would be able to use magic, had it been unlocked by someone like Spekkio.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Magus22 on April 25, 2006, 10:33:23 pm
Noo, Innate as in Shadow, Fire, Water, Lightning. Through channeling from Lavos, they can achieve usage of all of them, but they probably for that reason lack the usage to use it themselves if they only rely on the machine.

But what if someone was a Yellow or Green innate? They would also have a magic attribute? I don't know about that.



The people from El Nido would be able to use magic, had it been unlocked by someone like Spekkio.

That's impossible. Everything in El Nido was created artificially. The people had no offiliation with Zeal, or by that matter the FF . . . right? If everything of El Nido was created, the room in Chronopolis with the brains is evidence that the chronopolitans used the evolved brain from the FF to be placed into the individuals of El Nido.

How could they possibly be magic weilders? There's no ancestory relationships. The only one that comes to mind is Kid because she wasn't created and placed in El Nido.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: GreenGannon on April 26, 2006, 01:55:14 am
The people of El Nido weren't artificially created, they were descendants from the workers of Chronopolis.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Magus22 on April 26, 2006, 01:39:32 pm
The people of El Nido weren't artificially created, they were descendants from the workers of Chronopolis.

Now that I think about it, and that I forgot, the people of El Nido were descendants since it was thrown back with Dinopolis and the whole Dead Sea and Sea of Eden thing. Thank you for correcting me!
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: uzerzero on July 11, 2006, 08:29:24 am
I say it's Freudian in nature.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: AuraTwilight on July 11, 2006, 02:24:13 pm
Oh, Jesus, I can see how that turns out "What do you see here." "A Butterfly?" "No, it's a penis. WHITE! Next. What do you see here?" "UM...a man and a woman holding hands?" "No, it's a penis. RED! Next!"
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: uzerzero on July 11, 2006, 03:01:51 pm
Oh, Jesus, I can see how that turns out "What do you see here." "A Butterfly?" "No, it's a penis. WHITE! Next. What do you see here?" "UM...a man and a woman holding hands?" "No, it's a penis. RED! Next!"

Hehe something along those lines.

Well the whole Element thing goes back to when the Greeks discovered what they thought were the three (sometimes four) elements: earth, wind, fire, water. Holy and Dark were added as a mythological element later, in the belief that one could control the will of the gods or the demons. So that's where the colors come from, earth for yellow, wind would fall underneath plant life I believe for Chrono Cross, red for fire, blue for water, white for holy, and black for dark. My theory behind the innate colors is that it's genetic, and that you're born with a natural affinity to use certain kinds of elements.

Or it could just be that you fiddle around with Elements until you find which one you like the most, practice a lot, and become good with it?
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Chrono'99 on July 11, 2006, 05:39:50 pm
Or it could just be that you fiddle around with Elements until you find which one you like the most, practice a lot, and become good with it?
Well it would be totally paradoxical if innate colors were acquired through practice.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: uzerzero on July 11, 2006, 06:03:37 pm
Eh true. Slight overlook on my part. Also, if you can use Turn Elements, that wouldn't fall into that theory. I'll lapse back into the genetics theory, and that the original populace of El Nido had control over the Elements, then passed them down to their children and so on.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Zaperking on July 11, 2006, 06:36:24 pm
Eh true. Slight overlook on my part. Also, if you can use Turn Elements, that wouldn't fall into that theory. I'll lapse back into the genetics theory, and that the original populace of El Nido had control over the Elements, then passed them down to their children and so on.

All that element does is make the opponent weaker to it and it's opposite element.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Magus on August 15, 2006, 02:30:08 am
Isn't your element type based on your persoanlity? Ive read into this alot of times, often getting Fire (red) The main things I came across on my search was that each element has a Light/Holy and a Dark/Evil side to it:

FIRE (Light)
Passionite, Creative, spirit, ect.

FIRE (Dark)
Agressive, Rage, jelousy, ect.

EARTH ( light)
Guardian, strength, protection,ect.

EARTH (dark)
Strength, power, fighting, ect.

AIR/WIND (light)
Knowledge, exploration, learning,ect.

AIR/WIND (dark)
Knowledge for evil, cunning plans, wrath,ect.

If you read them, you could probably pick one for yourself. Very rare is someone a mix of elements.

Or maybe its determined by Birth Insignia? Gemini, Cancer, Picies, ect.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: CyberSarkany on August 15, 2006, 09:31:02 am
I think I said before that I believe it is the other way around.
The element isn't based on you personality, more you personality is based on it.

Like: When you are Fire Innate, you become creative and all that stuff.

How was this Soviet russia joke from Noodles?
In Soviet Russian, Element changes YOU!
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Bauglir on August 26, 2006, 01:54:21 pm
It can't be genetic. Dark Serge was a Black innate, but Lynx obviously didn't screw with his genes due to the whole reason he possessed him.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: CyberSarkany on August 26, 2006, 02:56:45 pm
But Serge in Lynx's Body was black, and still, Serge's body couldn't fly before. Oh, and Lynx could change Serge's eyes to these cat like ones.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Magus22 on August 26, 2006, 10:51:15 pm
Isn't your element type based on your persoanlity? Ive read into this alot of times, often getting Fire (red) The main things I came across on my search was that each element has a Light/Holy and a Dark/Evil side to it:

FIRE (Light)
Passionite, Creative, spirit, ect.

FIRE (Dark)
Agressive, Rage, jelousy, ect.

EARTH ( light)
Guardian, strength, protection,ect.

EARTH (dark)
Strength, power, fighting, ect.

AIR/WIND (light)
Knowledge, exploration, learning,ect.

AIR/WIND (dark)
Knowledge for evil, cunning plans, wrath,ect.

If you read them, you could probably pick one for yourself. Very rare is someone a mix of elements.

Or maybe its determined by Birth Insignia? Gemini, Cancer, Picies, ect.

I agree with the whole personality trait. That is a definite possiblility. The whole genetic part is hard to explain. If Serge(white) mates with Schala/Kid(red) then what is the product after say a child is born? What is that child born with? Is it the combination of both the parents or simply a random innate based upon a "slot" standpoint.

I don't think astral constellations or "birth insignias" play a factor in this. Its made up from where the sun passes through one of the 12 zodiac constellations, nothing more. However, the truth may be either right or wrong in the chronoverse. But I believe it's not true in the chronoverse.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Bauglir on August 27, 2006, 08:50:38 pm
Well, Serge could fly briefly, in his Luminaire and Flying Arrow techs. I'd guess that Lynx just was smart enough to make it last longer... as for the Innate switching or lack thereof... Lynx's body remained the same, obviously, but his mind would have been stupid to alter Serge's genes, since he needs them intact to access the Flame. So if genetics are involved, they can only be a contributing factor, not the deciding one. And the eyes? Plothole for awesome effect, I'd say.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Zaperking on August 28, 2006, 04:33:40 am
I doubt Schala is red innate. Most red innates wouldn't be able to control the Mammon Machine, let alone be able to seal things, and teleport things.

So quite frankly, this shows that it's not genetic. Schala didn't pass on her innate to Kid. I'd imagine that Schala is a shadow innate, as I had always thought that when fire, water and lightning combine, Shadow magic is formed.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Magus22 on August 28, 2006, 01:05:54 pm
I doubt Schala is red innate. Most red innates wouldn't be able to control the Mammon Machine, let alone be able to seal things, and teleport things.

So quite frankly, this shows that it's not genetic. Schala didn't pass on her innate to Kid. I'd imagine that Schala is a shadow innate, as I had always thought that when fire, water and lightning combine, Shadow magic is formed.

So then how is Kid a red innate? Just a random convergence?
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: CyberSarkany on August 28, 2006, 03:41:43 pm
Well, I didn't say Innate Colours are based on genetics, I only implied that the personality could be based on the Innate Colour. How you become innate/why other people aren't is something I don't know.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Bauglir on August 28, 2006, 07:55:01 pm
I'd have to say environment is the key to determining your innate. You pick up certain personality traits from your environment, and those determine your innate, which then reinforces those personality traits. Blue seemed to have kind of inconsistent personality types, but whatever. The only problem is Lynx's body, which remains black even after the personality switch. I can't figure out what's up with that, and I hope someone smarter than me can.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Magus068 on August 30, 2006, 08:09:51 am
Here's my theory, Your innate is determine by your soul's perfect harmony with certain element. Even if you transfer to another body, you still retain your original innate.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: AuraTwilight on August 30, 2006, 06:45:14 pm
But that doesn't explain Serge. When he was in his original body, his innate is White. When he switches bodies with Lynx, it's Black.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Magus068 on August 31, 2006, 06:24:58 am
True, But Lynx retains his innate when he transfered to Serge's body.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Bauglir on August 31, 2006, 06:09:57 pm
Yeah, but the thing about theories is that they have to be correct in all circumstances. If a theory is wrong about something, it has to be thrown out and another, better theory substituted that accounts for the anomaly.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Zaperking on August 31, 2006, 06:28:22 pm
Yeah, but the thing about theories is that they have to be correct in all circumstances. If a theory is wrong about something, it has to be thrown out and another, better theory substituted that accounts for the anomaly.
We still keep TTI, TB and the Armageddon Branch Theory regardless. We blame it on the game, instead of the theory :P
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Bauglir on September 02, 2006, 12:48:36 am
Yeah, ok. Dark Serge might've been just cause they figured that having him using white elements would be weird. Plus, I suppose it's FATE, and FATE can really do whatever it wants with the Element colors. It partitioned them, after all.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Magus068 on September 02, 2006, 05:36:51 am
Yeah, but the thing about theories is that they have to be correct in all circumstances. If a theory is wrong about something, it has to be thrown out and another, better theory substituted that accounts for the anomaly.
We still keep TTI, TB and the Armageddon Branch Theory regardless. We blame it on the game, instead of the theory :P

Specifically if you want to blame someone, blame it to the game development team for making vague innate system.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Zaperking on September 02, 2006, 01:01:11 pm
Yeah, ok. Dark Serge might've been just cause they figured that having him using white elements would be weird. Plus, I suppose it's FATE, and FATE can really do whatever it wants with the Element colors. It partitioned them, after all.

Not really. The elements existed in singularity all along. The Dragon God was formed from all of them, and FATE simply split them back into their 6 seperate elements. FATE then manufactured them, probably from the power spots that the Dragonians knew about. FATE doesn't control the elements, and the Dragon God is the biological incarnation of the elements. At any rate, the Dragon God would be in control. Not FATE.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: AuraTwilight on September 02, 2006, 01:51:38 pm
Dark Serge could've used the Frozen Flame to change his innate color. God knows he's using the Frozen Flame to do all that cooky stuff.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Bauglir on September 02, 2006, 02:34:27 pm
Yeah, the elements existed as a single force before, but it was FATE that partitioned them into separate colors, and that's the whole basis of having an innate anyway.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Zaperking on September 02, 2006, 08:50:48 pm
Yeah, the elements existed as a single force before, but it was FATE that partitioned them into separate colors, and that's the whole basis of having an innate anyway.

No, the Dragon God existed as a single force. The elements had always been there, all 6 of them. They were combined to create the Dragon God. If you split up the Dragon God, you get a dragon of each element, because they are made up of each element. FATE only split the dragon up. Anything that could split them up would cause the same effect.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Bauglir on September 02, 2006, 11:33:09 pm
Right, then. I misunderstood the game, then. Thanks. I should play it more, but I really dislike it compared to Trigger for some reason.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Chrono'99 on September 03, 2006, 06:43:31 pm
Right, then. I misunderstood the game, then. Thanks. I should play it more, but I really dislike it compared to Trigger for some reason.
No you didn't misunderstood the game, it's just that you disagreed with Zaperking. The game never states whether the innate colors are natural or whether it's FATE that created them arbitrarily.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: ZeaLitY on September 03, 2006, 06:59:59 pm
Right; the only thing Cross says is that "Chronopolis, which pioneered the system of Elements" (to that effect). The Dragon God pre-Time Crash is referenced as a single plasma lifeform capable of controlling nature. At the most basic level, this makes it sound like Chronopolis made the six colors. We can never know for sure.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Zaperking on September 04, 2006, 03:09:30 am
But when you look at the Chrono Cross, and realise that Chronopolis never had it, could create it or know about it, then the 6 elements obviously existed. It wouldn't be the "lost 7th element" if another 6 didn't exist.
The CC wouldn't work if there weren't 6 elements that it could play their melodies. And so thats like saying that if Chronopolis did not pioneer the elements (by the way, the dragonians were stated to have manufactured elements from power spots), then the CC wouldn't exist and neither would any element, and the CC wouldn't work.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Chrono'99 on September 04, 2006, 10:06:52 am
It wouldn't be the "lost 7th element" if another 6 didn't exist.
Wow, of course it wouldn't be the 7th Element. If there were like 9 Elements, it would be the lost 10th element. If there were 41, it would be the 42th...

The pre-Time Crash Dragonians were stated to "control the powers of nature" by using the Dragon God. The post-Time Crash Dragonians are stated to use the power spots of El Nido to "generate Elements". Oh and guess what, those power spots were created by FATE in the first place...
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Zaperking on September 04, 2006, 06:44:58 pm
How can FATE create power spots when power spots are places on the planet where it's energy leaked out? More like FATE harnessed them and produced the elements. But i'd ask why it would hand them out to the El Nido residence..

Anyway, the CC follows the flow of the 6 great elemental melodies. Hence, 6 elements existed already.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: AuraTwilight on September 04, 2006, 09:59:10 pm
FATE made El Nido. Thus FATE made the Power Spots of El Nido. Duh.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Bauglir on September 05, 2006, 08:10:18 pm
I'd say that the Chrono Cross pre-Colors would've just been the ability to use the force of nature for some goal the user had in mind. In CC, that goal was releasing Schala and could only be used for that (aside from regenerating all elements including itself, which was pretty nifty) due to gameplay reasons. The melody wasn't the result of the six elements, the melody was the result of the presence of the Chrono Cross and the planet's "music" was what awakened Schala and allowed her to break free of the Time Devourer. That make any sense?
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Zaperking on September 06, 2006, 04:10:41 am
Steena:

   As you may well know, the
   natural world is composed of
   a balance of the 6 Elements
.
   These Elements are...
   White, black, red, blue,
   green, and yellow.
   Each one pairs up with another
   to maintain the balance which
   the natural world relies upon.

Direa:
   The gods that represent
   each Element are called the
   '"Dragon Gods
."'
   Since they symbolize the
   powers of nature
, they are
   also commonly referred to
   as the '"Gods of Nature."'

  If the sun is white,
   the shadow is black...
   The flame red and
   the water blue...
   Green are the leaves of the
   forest and the blowing winds.
   Yellow are the forces of
   mother earth.

Direa:
   Yes, it was a time when dragon
   worship was still common...
   Humans and demi-humans lived
   together in the same community.
   It must be a little hard to
   imagine today, but it is true...
   The planet's power collects
   at certain points on the
   main island.


Direa:
  One such point is the
   place we call the
   '"Divine Dragon Falls."
'
   But its name has been
   all but forgotten on
   the main island.
   Our tribe and the
   demi-humans are the
   only ones that know
   this name.

Steena:
   It is a sacred land that is
   dedicated to the worship of
   the sleeping Dragon Gods...
   For you to have accidently
   found this holy ground,
   means the planet might
   have guided you there
...

Quote clearly, it's evident here that the power spots were not made, Aura. They were always there. The Dragon Gods represent each of the 6 elements, as the plasma being was the sum of all of them.

The Chrono Cross, by the way, when combined with the 6 melodies of the planet, has the power to transfer minds, unite them (and things) and heal.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Bauglir on September 06, 2006, 09:54:22 am
For one thing, both Steena and Direa are adherents of a religion based on the Dragon Gods as separate entities, and it is therefore just as likely that their dogma states that the Dragons were always separate and controlling their colors. As for power points, it's also evident that they had to come into existence after the islands did. That means that FATE had at least something to do with their creation. Plus, if FATE is capable of terraforming on that level, it should be no problem to weaken the planet in such a way that power leaks out (assuming an FF7-esque power source with an actual geographic location), or (assuming an ethereally located power source) since it was able to use the Flame to partition the Dragons, it should be equally possible for FATE to use the Flame to concentrate and direct the planet's energy.

EDIT: It's possible that the power spots existed at the bottom of the ocean pre-terraforming, but I find it doubtful. They couldn't have existed anywhere before Dinopolis was sent back in time, as neither they nor Elements seemed to exist in CT, and they certainly would have drawn attention. They may have come into existence spontaneously when the Dragon God suddenly existed in that timeline, which is entirely possible, but would require a massive coincidence if for more than one to exist above water in the Archipelago, and they are definitely referred to in the plural (Most of the map area in CC is water, and power spots would have appeared worldwide AND would almost be fairly rare, or else it would be places lacking power that would be interesting). And after the war, which I presume to have been a pretty quick affair from the events in the game (someone correct me if I'm wrong), the islands were created and the remaining Dragonians migrated, at which point they began using power spots to create Elements, after the Dragon God had been divided by the Flame.

I just sorta realized all that just a few moments ago, so yeah, that's why it's an edit. It really is supposed to be part of the same idea, so it goes in the same post.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: AuraTwilight on September 06, 2006, 06:22:46 pm
Quote
Quote clearly, it's evident here that the power spots were not made, Aura. They were always there. The Dragon Gods represent each of the 6 elements, as the plasma being was the sum of all of them.

The Chrono Cross, by the way, when combined with the 6 melodies of the planet, has the power to transfer minds, unite them (and things) and heal.

None of that says that the Power Points were ALWAYS there, though, and we know that Divine Dragon Falls and El Nido were manmade. Thus, so were those particular Power Spots. That doesn't mean there can't be Power Spots that didn't form naturally on other parts of the planet though.

Quote
For one thing, both Steena and Direa are adherents of a religion based on the Dragon Gods as separate entities, and it is therefore just as likely that their dogma states that the Dragons were always separate and controlling their colors. As for power points, it's also evident that they had to come into existence after the islands did. That means that FATE had at least something to do with their creation. Plus, if FATE is capable of terraforming on that level, it should be no problem to weaken the planet in such a way that power leaks out (assuming an FF7-esque power source with an actual geographic location), or (assuming an ethereally located power source) since it was able to use the Flame to partition the Dragons, it should be equally possible for FATE to use the Flame to concentrate and direct the planet's energy.

PWNED.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Chrono'99 on October 31, 2006, 11:08:20 am
Mmh, actually now I think I was really wrong about the colors being created by FATE. In Terra Tower, there's a room with the "Dragon Emblem" on the floor, and 6 colored dots on it. Since Terra Tower existed before FATE assumed control of El Nido, and directly comes from the Dragonian dimension, this kind of proves that the colors weren't arbitrary chosen by FATE, but arbitrary chosen by the Dragon God instead. (Yes, I still say "arbitrary", because the only real, universal elements are the ones that Spekkio listed.)

Nothing to add about the power stops though.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Zaperking on November 01, 2006, 01:09:08 am
It's not arbitrary. It was designed that way. They are the melodies, they are the colors. Heck, it's arbitrary to have an ice element in CT when it's pretty much the same as water.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Chrono'99 on November 01, 2006, 06:23:57 am
There's no ice element in CT.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Zaperking on November 01, 2006, 08:00:11 pm
Then why are Marle and Frog different in their elements.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Radical_Dreamer on November 01, 2006, 09:16:27 pm
Then why are Marle and Frog different in their elements.

They are both Water innates. It's right there in the menu. They use different techniques, but this doesn't mean that they have different elements.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Zaperking on November 02, 2006, 01:18:35 am
Ooops, my Bad. I just remembered that one used ice and the other used water.

I guess that just proves another point. CT's elements can appear in any form in relation. Water -> Ice -> Gas etc.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Chrono'99 on November 02, 2006, 11:52:46 am
Exactly. The CT elements are the primary components of the universe: "Lightning", Ice, Fire, Shadow. From those elements, the Dragonians designed a model based on 6 colors. Other models (based on other things) could have been possible, but the only universal one is the CT model since it's based on the primary, indivisible components.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: AuraTwilight on November 02, 2006, 06:25:57 pm
It seems to me that Spekkio's elements correspond to Eastern Cosmology. There's White and Black, which represents Ying and Yang of Spirit (Ying) and Red and Blue, which represents Ying and Yang of Matter (Yang)
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Zaperking on November 03, 2006, 01:12:57 am
Actually, CC's seems more correct. Whilst in CT, Heavenly is wind aswell, and lightning and light, in CC, Wind is green and an element of its own. CT also didn't even have an Earth element..
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Chrono'99 on November 03, 2006, 10:31:18 am
...

There's no "correct" or "not correct". The CT elements are the only universal stuff, that's all. The CC Elements are just a derivative system, and the relation between the 6 colors and the 4 magic elements is a complex one (the Yellow and Green colors are included "somewhere" in the 4 elements).

Quote from: Spekkio
   Magic is divided into 4 types:
   Lightning, Fire, Water, & Shadow.

   Not just magic, but
   EVERYTHING is based on the balance
   of these 4 powers.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Daniel Krispin on November 14, 2006, 06:58:12 pm
do you know ayla and proto-humans do not have magic and elements?
there ayla found a red rock then her abilities all strange dream to unlock 8 physical attacks is something to do with a red rocks..

 . ayla saying red rock make ayla's stange dream for her abilities...

red rock be ?found? by ayla.... then...  zeal....   rudy knife....  masamune sword.... cyrus.... then...  crono or frog.... all dreams and magics?

Because Spekkio, who is at least a demi-god of sorts and stands outside of time monitoring all things of war, says so. He tells her 'you were born before magic.'
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: ShoeMagus on November 18, 2006, 02:01:19 am
I think that basically everyone after Zeal could have used magic. They all no doubt had an innate magical element (reflected later in the color system). Its just that since Zeal, people have to have some realization and awakening to use their power. As Crono and Co. had. ANYBODY you bring (cept for Ayla who coems before magic and Robo who isn't natural) can learn magic. The ability just has to be awakened. Its like a block was placed on humans (perhaps caused by the trauma of Zeal's fall and the interbreeding between Earthbound Ones and Enlightened Ones) and that Spekkio simply removes the block. The question is though, can the block be removed otherwise?

Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Zaperking on November 18, 2006, 04:16:13 am
I think that if a character in any game was like put under stress, they could awaken that magic or something. Aslong as they were connected to magic in some way.

BTW, you don't have to be of El Nido origin to use elements. Norris can too, and so can Sparky. The point here is: Can anyone use elements who has that magical power awakened, or are the usable elements like little stones that people just activate? Leah can use them right?
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: AuraTwilight on November 18, 2006, 12:59:52 pm
Any random moe can use Elements. It takes special people to use magic.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: nightmare975 on November 18, 2006, 01:03:21 pm
Any random moe can use Elements. It takes special people to use magic.

Besides their tech skills. Some of those look like magic to me.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Chrono'99 on November 18, 2006, 03:37:30 pm
Yeah, a few of them most probably use magic techs: Guile, Sneff, Sprigg... maybe Steena, etc.
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: ShoeMagus on November 19, 2006, 12:39:56 am
I would bet that on their own, very few of the CT team would have developed magical abilities at all on the level they did without interference from Spekkio. Like I said I think anybody could have used magic had it been awakened.

I mean logically do you think Glenn would have developed it had he not stopped and went "Hey how are you guys doing that? Is that magic? How'd you do that?"
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Ffej on April 09, 2007, 02:33:54 am
Magic then must be within every descendant of a Zeal, which is why Ayla doesn't have magic herself. The Enlightened ones joined with the Earthbound ones and over time, the Zealean bloodline must have spread to the entire population of the CT world. So what is magic then? It could be that because every human has a inner strength known as magic, that everyone could be able to awaken their magical power through special circumstances. Spekkio's role in CT is to unlock those circumstances within each of the characters as to allow them to use their innate element.

Is there any evidence on what affects the strength of a character's magic is? For example, why do some characters have stronger magic just generally over other characters? I'm proposing that it could be how strong the Zealean bloodline resides in that character that affects their magical prowess...Lucca? Any ideas?
Title: Re: What makes someone an Innate?
Post by: Zaperking on April 09, 2007, 05:09:30 am
I'm pretty sure that the Spekkio line saying that "You were born before magic" is a mistranslation.

Ayla simply cannot use magic because she hasn't enlightened enough to do it. As CC put emphasis on it, the Frozen Flame's contact with humans not only increased their brain power, but gave them traits that spread on to every human after that time. Because Ayla had no contact with it, she can't use magic. Elements maybe, but not magic.

The Zealian bloodline is a special one. Most likely the royal family has the most potent magical power due to having their direct ancestor having touched the flame, rather than being branched off.