Chrono Compendium
Enhasa Halls - Chrono Series Analysis => Characters, Plot, and Themes => Topic started by: Rabid Joe on August 01, 2005, 10:37:28 pm
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I thought Schala made it so that they would all lose their memories of the adventure?
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Serge would, but Schala remembered everything. I think she still felt for him after the panther demon thing. Plus, it makes more sense than "Thanks for saving me, now I'll erase your memory and you'll never see me again...loser." At least we know she didn't abandon him. I think that was the idea, or something.
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Yes, Schala did erase it because the Dimensions were about to reunit, and she wanted him to have a normal life, be it with Leena. Though, because of the uncertanty of time, Kid may not be created, or may have merged with Schala. But in either case, that spirit of Kid will always be looking for Serge, in any time, in any dimension that's possible... She loves Serge.
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Firstly, they'd marry because they love each other. X_X
Secondly, I don't think Kid and Schala would merge. I just can't see how that makes sense. If I'd have a clone, I sure as hell woulden't be hell to merge with him. And don't start with the Chrono Cross, because they're not dimensional doubles. Therefore, Kid would search the dimensions, eventually find Serge. Just like in their first meeting, Serge would fall for her. They'll then marry, and have lots of baby Arbiters! ^_^
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The point about the merging is that Kid is the missing piece of Schala. Schala wasn't able to sustain her good side, and so she sent out kid. What the Crono Cross does is still unknown. No one knows for sure if it merged Kid with her to get her good side back, or that her good side was remade, and Kid was able to stay herself from now on. The only problem is that when the dimensions split, everyone has to remerge. Since there's 1 Schala, and 2 kids, that can complicate things, even if they're not merging.
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No, it woulden't complicate anything. Two Kids merge, we get one Kid and one Schala. There. Any problems? I didn't think so. Plus the fact Serge Kid and (insert party member here) woulden't be affected by the split per say, being as they weren't in the dimension when the CC was activated. Rather, they would go back to the Ideal Timeline, have their memories seal, and their doubles would disappear due to Time Bastard.
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Perhaps Kid and Schala remained seperate, but Kid was superimposed upon Schala? Like Schala absorbed some of Kid's qualities without subtracting from who Kid is? Kinda like Kid is a newspaper and Schala is silly putty ^_^ So Kid and Serge can live normal lives...due to this whole....crazy thing, and like, yea. Baby Arbiters. Who's powers are useless because the Frozen Flame would lose it's power with the defeat of Lavos?
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Perhaps Kid and Schala remained seperate, but Kid was superimposed upon Schala? Like Schala absorbed some of Kid's qualities without subtracting from who Kid is? Kinda like Kid is a newspaper and Schala is silly putty ^_^ So Kid and Serge can live normal lives...due to this whole....crazy thing, and like, yea. Baby Arbiters. Who's powers are useless because the Frozen Flame would lose it's power with the defeat of Lavos?
Maybe. But still, Arbiters! ^_^ Blue hair with a golden streak! ^_^ Oh, and ponytails, too! With an australian accent, wielding Swallows and wearing mail... ~Goes and on and on to infinity~
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Now look what you guys did! Jeez, he'll be at it for days.
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Schala might love Serge too and search for him too.. It did say 'Schala "Kid" Zeal'. We don't know which one want's to go after Serge, maybe both.
Also, if both dimensions merge, Kid might have both sides compasionate and none evil.
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Sigh. This is the part where I prefer the way Radical Dreamers handled this. Kid = Schala = Kid, it's all clear-cut, and Serge and Kid can marry and Janus can be the brother-in-law from hell, and maybe Lucca's still around and they find her too, and it's all one happy kickass family with all my favorite characters in it...
(For the record, I sort of had a 'they got MARRIED? WHAT?' reaction to this too at first, since Serge and Kid just seem like really awesome friends during the game. But those're my favorite couples, anyway, the best-friend type, and that doesn't mean they can't get married.)
That said, there's got to be something to the "Schala 'Kid' Zeal" signature, and frankly, this is one of those parts where Chrono Cross gets nonsensical and convoluted and annoying and so I just go with what I want, which is Kid gets Schala's memories and everything is happy.
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Ok, call me an idiot (don't really), but I don't understand what would make anyone think they got married...
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The picture on the desk in the end of CC, apparently. People have mentioned that the clothing they're both wearing is wedding dress. (Indian, I believe it was?)
I think it was also mentioned in some guide, but I can't remember which.
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I always got the impression that Kid 'merges' with Schala, bur I couldn't explain why... I think I understand now: my idea is that Schala gives up her consciousness when she creates Kid, and she lives on through Kid. Now that I think about it, I doubt that Schala even MEANT to create Kid; she probably meant to travel to whenever that storm was, but Lavos held onto her dark side, and it left a shell behind.
So, I feel like, accidentally, Schala left her memory behind and started anew with Kid... And the way I think of the 'merging' is that Kid constantly denies being someone else, but once Serge frees Schala, Kid accepts her identity and regains her original body and memory
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I always got the impression that Kid 'merges' with Schala, bur I couldn't explain why... I think I understand now: my idea is that Schala gives up her consciousness when she creates Kid, and she lives on through Kid. Now that I think about it, I doubt that Schala even MEANT to create Kid; she probably meant to travel to whenever that storm was, but Lavos held onto her dark side, and it left a shell behind.
So, I feel like, accidentally, Schala left her memory behind and started anew with Kid... And the way I think of the 'merging' is that Kid constantly denies being someone else, but once Serge frees Schala, Kid accepts her identity and regains her original body and memory
Whoa, that made sense! Really, I like this theory!
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(For the record, I sort of had a 'they got MARRIED? WHAT?' reaction to this too at first, since Serge and Kid just seem like really awesome friends during the game. But those're my favorite couples, anyway, the best-friend type, and that doesn't mean they can't get married.)
i always got the feeling serge loves kid, on one of fargo's boats (cant remember which or when :( ) he remembers all his moments with kid, when kid is attacking them at the hermits hideaway, serge rushs straught out to see her, it seems obvious to me throughout the game they aint just friends.
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The picture on the desk in the end of CC, apparently. People have mentioned that the clothing they're both wearing is wedding dress. (Indian, I believe it was?)
Ah, yes...the picture...w/the guy who's head we never see...One thing though that I don't understand is how people could think it's Serge! If you look at the picture again, look closely, you'll notice that the person standing has *shock* long hair...like...hmm...What guys that could be connected to Schala have long hair? Take a guess. I've never thought it was Serge and I don't understand why others do.
i always got the feeling serge loves kid, on one of fargo's boats (cant remember which or when :( ) he remembers all his moments with kid, when kid is attacking them at the hermits hideaway, serge rushs straught out to see her, it seems obvious to me throughout the game they aint just friends.
Meh...hardly...Serge is basically an emotionless tool (as I've stated before and will probably state many times in the future). It depends on how you play as well. I always thought that he wouldn't want Kid around as a way to make it so his prophetic dream wouldn't come true. This would also explain his frustration (as Lynx) when Dark Serge finally does stabber Kid.
I'm not sure about the Fargo's boat thing...I just remember when he dreamed about getting fucked up by the panther demon after Fargo poisons you...
And yeah, when someone who used to be your friend starts attacking, I think it's an obvious response to go out and see wtf is up...Especially since she was like under Dark Serge's spell (/her own nutso amped up revenge trip)...
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i dunno, i just cant see serge not having feelings for kid, it just doesnt work for me.
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The picture on the desk in the end of CC, apparently. People have mentioned that the clothing they're both wearing is wedding dress. (Indian, I believe it was?)
Ah, yes...the picture...w/the guy who's head we never see...One thing though that I don't understand is how people could think it's Serge! If you look at the picture again, look closely, you'll notice that the person standing has *shock* long hair...like...hmm...What guys that could be connected to Schala have long hair? Take a guess. I've never thought it was Serge and I don't understand why others do.
The guy doesn't have long hair. In Missing Piece he clearly has Serge's emotionless face and wears his trademark scarf. Plus the drawing is on Serge's page... Someone really have to translate what's written next to it though, to confirm if his clothes are wedding stuff or not.
I believe there was a link to the scans somewhere on the site but I don't remember where.
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Oh, come on, it's Schala, and it's not a wedding dress. It's a Zealian dress, right beside her is a man with long hair, who's a lot taller then she is, who's dressed in formal wear. I would think Janus at long last found her. Or rather, Schala would find him. It would be like her to search for her younger brother... Though he's not younger anymore... ^_^
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Oh, come on, it's Schala, and it's not a wedding dress. It's a Zealian dress, right beside her is a man with long hair, who's a lot taller then she is, who's dressed in formal wear. I would think Janus at long last found her. Or rather, Schala would find him. It would be like her to search for her younger brother... Though he's not younger anymore... ^_^
Agreed.
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I actually thought it was Janus too, at first, until someone said they'd translated it. I'll see if I can find out who said it.
(I kind of wish it was Janus. I mean, nothing against Serge and all, but the lack of Janus in CC was freaking annoying. >_>)
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What page are you talking about? I have Missing Piece, and can scan it for clairification.
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Doesn't Missing Piece simply have some concept art? I know that a concept art of Serge kind of looks like the headless man, but I think this is obviously changed w/the end product. Someone get a screen capture of the oh so mysterious headless man and I'll show you that he's got long hair...
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Yay, it just so happens I downloaded scans of Missing Piece a while back. Here's (http://www.geocities.com/merrynightwanderer/ccmp-110.jpg) where they show the concept art of Kid's dress in the photograph, and here (http://www.geocities.com/merrynightwanderer/ccmp-111.jpg) is Serge's.
And here (http://www.geocities.com/merrynightwanderer/cc46.jpg) is the picture of the photograph. It doesn't look to me like he has long hair - there's a drape behind him. And he does have the exact same clothes as the Serge in the concept art does.
*resists urge to complain about the concept artwork in CC :p*
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What page are you talking about? I have Missing Piece, and can scan it for clairification.
Oh you're my savior. I had the scan but it's not on the computer I'm currently using. The mysterious dude is on a page with black and white concept arts of Serge (there's some arts of Serge with a hood too, and Dark Serge), I think it's some pages before Kid and ''Arf'', and after some pages about ''Radical Dreamers''. Sorry it's pretty vague but if I remember correctly there is only one page with black and white (or blue and white?) sketches of Serge (besides the one used for the status screen) so you'll find it.
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wow the picture is... very unclear, you dont even see the guys face, how can you tell he has long hair, you cant even see any hair. the girl looks like kid but a good 5 - 10 years older.
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(http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/8035/longhair2nm.jpg)
Clearly long hair...I don't see how you could see it as anything else...Yeah, it's a drape...that just happens to be around his head (you can even see it on the other side...) and just happens to be the same length (more or less?) of a certain person we all know & love (not talking about Serge here).
And like said, those are just concepts. It doesn't mean that they were used in the game, or if they were that they were used in the same manner they were conceptualized for (i.e. the concept costume doesn't have to be on the concept character).
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I kind of doubt that Magus could get hair that... big unless he used metric tons of 80s hairspray. But that's just me. It's also way too long for him, IMHO, and there's another drape on the other side...
Also, the guy in the photograph just happens to have the same clothing as the concept art of Serge? I dunno, you're right, that doesn't make it -concrete-, but given the odds I think it's far more likely that it was Serge than Janus, 'specially since they bothered to put Kid's dress on her page..
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i dont' belive its serge or that its a drape. They can't seriously be wedding clothes, I agree with whoever (V_T?) said it was zealian clothes. And also, why would they have to hide serge's face anyway? That doesn't make sense. It just gotta be janus
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The area circled in red simply does not look like hair. It's something in the background.
Clearly, the man's costume was originally designed for Serge, but that only reflects the artist's original intent. Just as Guile was planned to be Magus, yet simply is not, this unnamed figure might not be Serge.
Honestly, I think the fact that the figure's face is obscured means that we are NOT supposed to know who it is. In other words, there is no "correct" answer, unless or until Kato answers the question for us.
That said, my money is on Magus. As was stated above, the manner of dress seems to jive with Zeal. The design may be based on Indian wedding costume, but since no indication of a marriage is given in the game itself, I think that claiming this is a "wedding picture" is a little ridiculous.
Besides, consider this. Why would Schala be writing about searching for Serge in her diary if she already found him and they got married? No, I really think it's either Magus or some unknown and totally unimportant (to us) person, like a servant, perhaps, in the picture with Schala.
OdF
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What page are you talking about? I have Missing Piece, and can scan it for clairification.
Oh you're my savior. I had the scan but it's not on the computer I'm currently using. The mysterious dude is on a page with black and white concept arts of Serge (there's some arts of Serge with a hood too, and Dark Serge), I think it's some pages before Kid and ''Arf'', and after some pages about ''Radical Dreamers''. Sorry it's pretty vague but if I remember correctly there is only one page with black and white (or blue and white?) sketches of Serge (besides the one used for the status screen) so you'll find it.
Looks like someone beat me to the punch, which is good, cause I am extra lazy today.
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It's not zealian. It may look like it, but it's not. It's something more regal around 1000AD.
If you look at the Zealian sprites clearly, the dress is different, longer too. The men have blue furish thingies and the jackets have alot of white on them. That picture is darkened, which means that the area is dark too. Besides, Why the hell would Kid marry Magus? Eew...
That diary is based on the Diary read in RD. It starts off with the grandchild of Serge reading it, explaining how Serge loved Kid, etc.
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erm zaper i think they made the point they thought it was more of a family picture, with janus and schala, living in zeal presume after the affects of lavos and queen Zeal.
but i dont see how the female is schala, it definetly looks like kid and kid doesnt look like schala, but that would then assume that kid and schala did not merge after, erm after you guys think they merged, so either they didnt merge, or that is schala after all, or maybe its someone completely diferent, but i guess thats not likely.
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The stuff circled in red is just a drape at the left of the window (or door or whatever) behind, there's another drape at the right of it. It's also too blurry to be hair (compare with Schala/Kid's hair), and more curved than any hairstyle could get (unless that person is Luccia...).
Besides, consider this. Why would Schala be writing about searching for Serge in her diary if she already found him and they got married? No, I really think it's either Magus or some unknown and totally unimportant (to us) person, like a servant, perhaps, in the picture with Schala.
She's not writing anymore, just reading it. And how could it be someone else than Serge actually? The whole diary was about Schala/Kid's aventures with Serge, and right after reading the last pages saying ''we'll see each other again Serge'', we see a photograph of Schala/Kid together with *someone*.
After all those writings about Serge in the diary, if the guy isn't Serge it would make as much sense as seeing the words ''the fall of Guardia'' during the scene with Lucca and baby Kid in FFChronicles, instead of during the fall scene...
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well thats pretty decisive, with that evidence i challenge anyone to find an idea that makes more sense.
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Sorry, I don't buy it. If it's supposed to DEFINITELY be Serge, then why not show the person's face?
Clearly, we are not supposed to know either way. If we were, then, they'd make it possible for us to know. :P
OdF
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btw, does the picture more or less fill the screen? i mean to say, is it at all posible that the centre focus of the picture is the lady, and so the guy is just too tall to fit it, maybe they tried doing one where it did show the face, but it didnt look right, so they just missed that bit, any chance?
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I kind of doubt that Magus could get hair that... big unless he used metric tons of 80s hairspray.
I might have considered something like this myself, but, then again, I didn't think it'd be possible for Schala to have blonde hair...nor did I imagine that Glenn would look retarded in his human form (as in the new CT ending in FFC). New character designer, new looks for the characters.
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*shrug* I still think, given the odds, it's much more likely Serge than Janus. (Who has to settle for a mere mention in Lucca's letter... sigh.) Still, until someone translates and gives us proof, it's not canon.
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Exactally.
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I'd like to believe it was Serge in there, but hey, I'm a hopeless romantic!
:o
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I just can't bring myself to think it's Serge... If there'll be no CB, then Janus finally finding Schala would be such a fitting end to the saga.
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That'd be kind of stupid. Schala going "I'll find you. In any time, in any dimension, count on it mate." and then a picture of her and Janus... It seems out of place, since the picture appears right when the diary ends (which is either written from Serge's point so its about him, or from Schala).
CC is basically what we see what happens when the dream team isn't united >.< So many plotholes.
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That'd be kind of stupid. Schala going "I'll find you. In any time, in any dimension, count on it mate." and then a picture of her and Janus... It seems out of place, since the picture appears right when the diary ends (which is either written from Serge's point so its about him, or from Schala).
CC is basically what we see what happens when the dream team isn't united >.< So many plotholes.
Yeah. Let's cease this argument and each go to his own way, believing what we want.
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No point of a debate thread then.
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Yes. This means this entire conversation was a waste of time, except that we finally understood that we don't have to agree on everything. If we can't agree on an answer to a question, we might as well each go with our own opinions. It's better then arguing for ages over something we have no way of answering.
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Yes. This means this entire conversation was a waste of time, except that we finally understood that we don't have to agree on everything. If we can't agree on an answer to a question, we might as well each go with our own opinions. It's better then arguing for ages over something we have no way of answering.
aye to that!
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^
Hypocrit.
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Hypocrit.
Indeed.
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pffft!
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pffft!
Oh, so Kazmaza isn' t an hypocrite? =_=
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Okay here's the mysterious man scan (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/flamestealer/ccmp-111.jpg) (and the Schala/Kid scan (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/flamestealer/ccmp-110.jpg) if anyone is interested, particularly as for the translation).
And then a little collage for comparison:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/flamestealer/longhair2nm.jpg)
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Okay here's the mysterious man scan (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/flamestealer/ccmp-111.jpg) (and the Schala/Kid scan (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/flamestealer/ccmp-110.jpg) if anyone is interested, particularly as for the translation).
And then a little collage for comparison:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/flamestealer/longhair2nm.jpg)
It's safe to say that IS Serge and that IS Kid(Or Schala)
That covers it for me. :) (Nice find, I never thought to compare)
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You'd never thinking of Kid wearing a skirt or dress for that matter. But the book says otherwise. Can it be trusted though? Like official scetches from the designers? And was it from RD?
But if it's official or something, then it proves that that is Serge and the person there is either 1) Kid merged with Schala (Kid would never wear a dress) or 2. Really Kid who changed or something.
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I don't think it's safe to say that it's Serge. Those pictures of Serge were mere concepts. I don't think you can take concepts as fact for what's seen or hinted at in the end-game result. I mean, in the original concept, Guile was going to be Magus, right? But in the end-game result, he wasn't Magus at all and the idea was scrapped, but his design was more or less kept the same.
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So now we're stuck between some "concepts" and some... drape...
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So...where does Leene fit in with all of this? When the Chrono Cross is used, Serge ends up immediately after finding the Komodo sclaes. (Thanks to Schala?) This is leaving us to assume we're in a timeline in which A) Serge is alive and B) He and Leene are an item.
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So...where does Leene fit in with all of this? When the Chrono Cross is used, Serge ends up immediately after finding the Komodo sclaes. (Thanks to Schala?) This is leaving us to assume we're in a timeline in which A) Serge is alive and B) He and Leene are an item.
Either Serge will eventually leave Leena for Schala/Kid, or Schala/Kid will meet some other incarnation of Serge not the one we played during the game (she does repeat many times during the ending that they will meet "in another place, another time" and that they won't recognize each other even though she'll be searching for him always...).
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*smacks forehead* I hate it when I make dumb typos. >.< It's 7 AM here and I haven't slept yet, forgive me. o.O
The only evidence I can think of for Serge/Kid pairing is Leena's fortune reading of "You will not have a boyfriend for a long time." (quote isn't exact)
Now this could just mean the future of THAT Leena, who lives in a world where Serge is dead, OR the fortune teller is looking into her final fate, after TD is beaten, and sees that she is seperated from Serge. But that's really stretching it considering, the whole Komodo Scale thing.
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the Komodo Scales could've been a goodbye present ^_^
But yea, I'm sure they'll stick together. Maybe Schala's looking for Janus, or something. Really, Schala has no reason to search for Serge. If anyone, it should be Kid.
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So, when Schala says
[Schala]
We alone do not have the power
to heal the world's woes,
or to solve all its mysteries.
And yet, even then...
It was bloody good
knowing ya, mate!
Thanks for being born
'"you,"' Serge!
I guess now's the time to say,
'"see ya later, mate!"'
But...
I'll find ya...
Sometime, somewhere...
I'm bloody sure of it!
No matter the time period,
no matter the world ya live in,
I'll find ya!
I'm sure...
I am sure I will find you...
she's speaking to Serge, yet referring to Janus as "you", and saying to Serge that she's sure, sure, bloody sure that she'll find Janus somewhere (as if Serge would care for someone he doesn't even know)?
And it's basically written the same stuff in Schala's diary... I mean, the diary which-belongs-to-Schala-yet-which-tells-Kid's-story-and-is-signed-by-Schala-'Kid'-Zeal...
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That whole quote in the end of the game proves pretty much that they fused. Kid and Schala. It's as if Schala just adapted a bit of Kid. With the "Bloody, Mate, Ya's" etc. speech.
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Or it could be something much simpler, like Schala being herself without the pressure of being royalty and stuff, since Schala merging with Kid is not only stupid, but also compromises Kid's free spirit and the definition of the word "clone"
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What about the diary? Whose diary is it?
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It compromises Kid's free spirit because that's the point. Her entire existence Kid has known she was a piece of Schala subconciously, and was always fighting against that.
"Clone" is misused in this game, it should be something along the lines of "avatar."
She writes Schala "Kid" Zeal to tell you she is both Schala AND Kid. It's as simple as that.
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Argh, but that's just it! Kid isn't just some missing piece! She is a fully-realized individual with a personality and feelings and dreams entirely unique and separate from those of Schala. She's not a puppet, and she's not just a false face. Kid had a whole life with Lucca and a tragic sort of love with Serge. If Kid is "merged" with Schala, and Kid no longer exists as herself, it's as if her life was stolen from her. Just because Schala allowed Kid to exist doesn't mean that Schala has a right to steal Kid's life, and I don't believe that Schala WOULD steal Kid's life.
I realize that the points made to the contrary have been good ones, and I really can't argue them based upon any bit of evidence proivded by Cross. All I can say is that, to me personally, the idea of Kid merely being "reincorporated" into Schala is abhorrent, and I simply choose to reject it.
OdF
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Believe me, I completely understand the sentiment. You grew to love a character, and the idea of her simply being assimilated into someone else, thus erasing her general existence, is a tragic ordeal.
But it's designed to be tragic. Schala sent a piece of herself inside Kid, so that it could grow up, live and do the things needed to be done. I don't think Schala cared wether or not she merged back with Kid, though. I don't think she knew for certain she'd even survive her time with TD.
I think the Kid/Schala merger was an unfortunate side-effect from the use of the Chrono Cross.
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Think of it like this: You grow to be 18 (or however old Schala is), then lose your entire memory. For the next 18 years you begin to get new memories, but once you reach 36 you regain all your old memories... This is how I think of Schala/Kid.. I don't think their bodies actually 'merge', but that Schala's original body is beat up and ruined, if not lost, from being a part of the TD; however, Kid regains the memories of Schala and thus 'merges' with her..
Ok, now I'm going to get into abstract ideals. I believe that we know everything in our subconscious, maybe not from the moment we're born, but by the time our brain is fully mature physically at least. Whatever happens to us and whatever we learn just takes the knowledge from the subconscious to the conscious and moves something from the conscious back to the subconscious (like not remembering stuff from childhood clearly). Schala, according to this, has certain areas of her subconscious in her conscious, and Kid with other areas. Memories, as far as I'm concerned with this, are just combinations of the knowledge. Although I know nothing technical, in my theorizing I think we know EVERYTHING, including what'll happen in the future, subconsciously. Seeing into the future isn't such a big thing, just as seing tons of gray clouds in the sky and guessing that a storm's coming isn't such a big deal; everything we do forces others to act in certain ways in a giant chain-reaction... Anyway, both Schala's and Kid's memories are in both of their subconsciouses, and once they reunite both areas of thier subconscious are conscious
I guess a lot of that is abstract, hypothetical, and off-topic, but I feel like it'd be a waste for me to have written that and then deleted it <_<
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"Clone" is misused in this game, it should be something along the lines of "avatar."
Misused as in 'it should be in the Japanese version" or simply misused the way you see it? They say clone, they don't really hint that by clone they mean anything but clone, so here I think it's safe to take it as it is said...
But it's designed to be tragic.
If it was designed that way, it would be more apparent that it actually happened that way...
Think of it like this: You grow to be 18 (or however old Schala is), then lose your entire memory. For the next 18 years you begin to get new memories, but once you reach 36 you regain all your old memories... This is how I think of Schala/Kid.. I don't think their bodies actually 'merge', but that Schala's original body is beat up and ruined, if not lost, from being a part of the TD; however, Kid regains the memories of Schala and thus 'merges' with her..
Ok, now I'm going to get into abstract ideals.
Now? When were you speaking concretely?
I believe that we know everything in our subconscious, maybe not from the moment we're born, but by the time our brain is fully mature physically at least. Whatever happens to us and whatever we learn just takes the knowledge from the subconscious to the conscious and moves something from the conscious back to the subconscious (like not remembering stuff from childhood clearly). Schala, according to this, has certain areas of her subconscious in her conscious, and Kid with other areas. Memories, as far as I'm concerned with this, are just combinations of the knowledge. Although I know nothing technical, in my theorizing I think we know EVERYTHING, including what'll happen in the future, subconsciously. Seeing into the future isn't such a big thing, just as seing tons of gray clouds in the sky and guessing that a storm's coming isn't such a big deal; everything we do forces others to act in certain ways in a giant chain-reaction... Anyway, both Schala's and Kid's memories are in both of their subconsciouses, and once they reunite both areas of thier subconscious are conscious
So, your belief is that the human brain has the ability to calculate chaos, huh? I don't think so...
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Schala's body was not battered because she was inside that shield. And if it was, the Chrono Cross fixed it up. After her time in the DBT, she became enlightened, talking about evolution and how everything struggles to survive. If Kid and Schala do not remerge, or Schala get's back that piece of Kid, Schala will never be complete. Schala has lost that part of her soul... The good part of her soul... And when we look at Kid, she is always hot tempered, and angry. Where is this good part of her? It's not being used. So maybe either that piece goes back to Schala, or in the end, they have to remerge because Kid and Schala are the same age, same look, and in the ending, it looks like Kid is wearing Schala's dress... And Kid was only ever at that beach. Where is Schala if that's Kid? Or where is Kid if thats Schala? Why isn't there Kid and Schala in the photo with Serge??? How mysterious.
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Argh, but that's just it! Kid isn't just some missing piece! She is a fully-realized individual with a personality and feelings and dreams entirely unique and separate from those of Schala. She's not a puppet, and she's not just a false face. Kid had a whole life with Lucca and a tragic sort of love with Serge. If Kid is "merged" with Schala, and Kid no longer exists as herself, it's as if her life was stolen from her. Just because Schala allowed Kid to exist doesn't mean that Schala has a right to steal Kid's life, and I don't believe that Schala WOULD steal Kid's life.
I realize that the points made to the contrary have been good ones, and I really can't argue them based upon any bit of evidence proivded by Cross. All I can say is that, to me personally, the idea of Kid merely being "reincorporated" into Schala is abhorrent, and I simply choose to reject it.
OdF
However, you could also look at it with a "RD" point of view: let's just say that in the DBT, Schala is dead. That's it, she doesn't really live in it anyway, she's unconscious and integrated in some dead creature (Lavos) and some organic machine (Dragon God). Kid then would not just be her physical clone but also her reincarnation, sort of (as in RD), seeing as how Schala is dead/non-alive and Kid was created out of her will.
Schala does re-live a bit during the ending, but that's in the DBT, not really a real place to begin with. Could be like Schala is Kid's previous karmic incarnation or something. Schala and Kid then wouldn't really merge but just realize that they are the same person(s), one being the previous life of the other (that sounds Hinduist/Buddhic...).
The CT ghosts speeches about "saving Schala" could then be interpreted as "give Kid back her soul" or "let Schala fully revive (through Kid)" or something.
In a different but comparable way, Serge did experience dying drowned and being rescued at the same time when the dimensions split (one Serge mind/memory for two Serge bodies).
I'm not saying this interpretation is valid, but I think it's a possible way of looking at it without (totally) rejecting what the game states, and what the game leaves open.
So maybe either that piece goes back to Schala, or in the end, they have to remerge because Kid and Schala are the same age, same look, and in the ending, it looks like Kid is wearing Schala's dress... And Kid was only ever at that beach.
I got the impression that chronologically, the scenes with Schala/Kid wandering some city and standing at that beach happen before the photo is taken.
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Probably, just in the end, no matter what, Schala "Kid" Zeal is there with Serge in that photo.
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Serge my ass!
:P
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Seeing into the future isn't such a big thing, just as seing tons of gray clouds in the sky and guessing that a storm's coming isn't such a big deal; everything we do forces others to act in certain ways in a giant chain-reaction...
Wait a minute. Our brains would have to be fused with every other brain on the entire planet and have teh calculating abilities of NASA's most expensive computers to be able to successfully realize the consequences of each split in a chain to follow the right path and correctly fortell teh future? Get it? Each choice makes a split in the chain (kinda like the dimension split) and each choice leads to more choices, then you add in EVERYONE ELSE'S choices and you get this whole mess or links and chains and crap. All in all, wrong theory about human knowledge.
Serge my ass!
AMEN!
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Seeing into the future isn't such a big thing, just as seing tons of gray clouds in the sky and guessing that a storm's coming isn't such a big deal; everything we do forces others to act in certain ways in a giant chain-reaction...
That's what one calls wisdom, and keen wisdom is in fact a rare thing. It requires a knowledge of the ways of things, to predict the future based upon the past. Of course, there are limits, but if one knows human nature, and history, I think a remarkable amount of the future can be predicted.
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Seeing into the future isn't such a big thing, just as seing tons of gray clouds in the sky and guessing that a storm's coming isn't such a big deal; everything we do forces others to act in certain ways in a giant chain-reaction...
Wait a minute. Our brains would have to be fused with every other brain on the entire planet and have teh calculating abilities of NASA's most expensive computers to be able to successfully realize the consequences of each split in a chain to follow the right path and correctly fortell teh future? Get it? Each choice makes a split in the chain (kinda like the dimension split) and each choice leads to more choices, then you add in EVERYONE ELSE'S choices and you get this whole mess or links and chains and crap. All in all, wrong theory about human knowledge.
See, in what I was explaining, there aren't any choices. There's always one path through that whole mess or links and chains and crap. For example, what I'm typing now influences what you'll type in response, if at all; you have no 'choice' in the matter technically, for your past experiences and environment force your decisions. I guess you weren't really saying otherwise, but I'm just trying to say that it wouldn't require making a whole branching tree of events (that's how I think of it, though I think there's a better phrase for it), and would just require making one path...
V_Translanka: I said that 'abstract ideal' thing because, as far as I'm concerned, whether Kid was Schala reborn or her clone really doesn't impact me that much; Kid and Schala SHOULD combine or however you'd like to phrase it, because Kid is the 'good' side and Schala is the 'bad', and both are incomplete without each other, so Kid DOES 'use' the 'good' side and, because of it, appears to be 'bad' to us (with things like revenge) since she has no opposite to balance it out. The reason why I think, despite what the game says, or what is agreed on here, Schala and Kid SHOULD reunite is irrelevant, but I thought I'd explain it; anyway, I'll move on. I'm really too lazy to try to understand any lessons or morals or anything from whether Schala and Kid actually do reunite despite their need to, so whether it's decided on that they do or don't has no real impact on in guiding my thinking... However, I do believe those 'abstract ideals' that I stated, and, to me, the Schala/Kid reunificiation is just what happens in a video game; basically, if someone shot down what I said at first I'd be fine with, for it's just a video game and the actual scenario is all in fantasy, but I was expecting people to shoot down the 'abstract ideals' because I actually believed in them, as opposed to my nonexistant belief that Schala and Kid are real and reunited in real life. Ugh.. I talk too much... Basically, no one expected what I said at first to be concrete, but some poeple ignorantly believe only 'concrete' things and then shrug off anything they don't want to believe by calling it abstract, and I guess what I said was just a warning.. kind of.
Daniel: Wow, until I read your reply, I never thought there was any sense behind predicting the future based upon the past, and I thought it was just people who liked to believe that history repeated itself... I never even thought that what I believed was basically using the past to predict the future.. however, I think of it in more of a personal history way, not human history way because I feel like if one (it seems weird for me to use 'one', and I normally try to avoid using 'one' or 'you' at all, but I can't find a way around it now, so don't think that I'm mocking or anything) knows human nature, there's no need to know history; human nature predicts what happens in history, as far as I'm concerned
Ugh, I really have to go read Lord of the Flies.. <_<
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Kid is the 'good' side and Schala is the 'bad'
Based on what did you decide this? Everything else you said, I half-understood, mainly stemming from the fact that I don't understand this at all.
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If anything, it should be the other way around. Ignoring the fact that they're both complete individuals with both, and have no business merging together whatsoever.
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Saying that undermines game evidance.
The game has stated that Schala sent her good side, her compassion, her conciousness into Kid, but Kid is a baby. So basically all of Schala's compassion has been wasted because it has never been unlocked, and Kid simply focused on her own revenge etc.
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I reread that part of the script, and it says that Schala cloned herself before her mind was completely taken over by hatred... I have to rethink my position now... <_<
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I reread that part of the script, and it says that Schala cloned herself before her mind was completely taken over by hatred... I have to rethink my position now... <_<
EDIT: Zaperking, I'd like to argue that her 'compassion' or 'good' side wasn't wasted, and that it was her 'good intentions' that caused Kid to want revenge
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No, it said she made Kid with the last acts of her compassion. Totally different. Kid was supposed to work towards Schala's freedom, not to preserve her goodness.
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Before the destructive mind-
set could become dominant,
she cloned herself and sent
her copy into this dimension.
Technically, without Belthasar, Kid really wasn't supposed to have any role in rescuing Schala, or at least the script doesn't mention it
And, by the way, I thought, before, that the script had said that Schala sent her good side away as Kid, but finding what I did has made me doubt my position on the subject, and I'm not so sure if schala and kid really should've combined now
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Forget all those quotes and please just explain why the diary starts with Kid's story then ends with Schala's thoughts and is signed Schala 'Kid' Zeal.
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I always felt that, since they're genetic clones, Schala and Kid have the same "root personality" at childhood, but here's the thing. Schala had to be a hoity toity princess and constantly subject to her mother's whims, while Kid could do whatever she wanted. She was a free spirit. Kid is merely what Schala would be if she were able to express herself freely. Y'know, except the theiving and holding hostages and stuff >_>
Now, at the end of the game, Schala is freed, timeline merged, etc. Now, since the DBT is a seperate dimension, altering it effects the past, present, and future of that event. By removing Schala from the DBT, everything that happened because of her influence never happened. For example, Wazuki's trip to Marbule was safe and sound, and thusly, Serge never had to become Arbiter. It's not that the timelines literally merged, but that they never split in the first place. However, this also means that Kid was never born. Bummer.
Now check this shit out! Schala is still Schala, but now she's a free spirit, and doesn't have to subject to anyone. She can be herself, which is alot like Kid, but she still retains all her wisdom and compassion because....it's Schala, y'know? So anyway, she then adopts Kid's name as a nickname as homage or thanks or something.
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And she also decides to dress exactly like her? :?
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I don't think Schala's personality would change into Kid's or anything. Schala was raised this way, she is already like 17. She probably likes being polite, because in the japanese version, she is polite to everyone lower than her for no reason, whilst Zeal and Dalton make them all sound cute and pathetic.
Also, after the merging of the dimensions, the game makes it seem that FATE wont exist anymore, the Dragon God's are Dead and pretty much they have the whole back history (FATE being in 7600BC, Dragon God's once existing) but once Serge wakes up, it's all gone...
And yeah, Either way, the ending scene proves one thing.
We know that Kid doesn't like dresses. Yet in the ending scene, the scene imply's that this is Kid. She's standing at the same beach. She has the same hair (Schala didn't have a pony tail when she came out of the DBT) but she's wearing Schala's dress. This almost imply's that Schala has simply adapted Kid's personality, when they merged. Like they were never different people, but that compassionate side got to experiance revenge and anger for itself, and now that part goes back to Schala. Like 2 entity's in one, even though Kid and Schala have the same soul, this is very likely.
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Ok, call me an idiot (don't really), but I don't understand what would make anyone think they got married...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/azrael19/Banner%20Album/whatdoyouthink.jpg)
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Ok, call me an idiot (don't really), but I don't understand what would make anyone think they got married...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/azrael19/Banner%20Album/whatdoyouthink.jpg)
That is the best reasoning this site has seen, I smell an article.
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What? Her C (stretching?) cups? Bah...
Oh, and about earlier stuffs, when I said...
And she also decides to dress exactly like her?
What I was referring to was, also in the ending FMV, we see Kid (clearly Kid in her whole getup and everything) on a boat (Korcha-style) in the middle of w/e body of water...
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And she also decides to dress exactly like her?
No. It's Schala dressing as....Schala >_>;
I don't think Schala's personality would change into Kid's or anything. Schala was raised this way, she is already like 17. She probably likes being polite, because in the japanese version, she is polite to everyone lower than her for no reason, whilst Zeal and Dalton make them all sound cute and pathetic.
Schala can still be polite as well as being free to do as she wants. I somehow got the feeling that Schala (if she did become like this) doesn't use Kid's language outside the privacy of her own home. Or atleast tries not to.
Also, after the merging of the dimensions, the game makes it seem that FATE wont exist anymore, the Dragon God's are Dead and pretty much they have the whole back history (FATE being in 7600BC, Dragon God's once existing) but once Serge wakes up, it's all gone...
That's incredibly stupid. >_> Why would they just poof? That must make monumentally huge borkings in the timeline. Not to mention that FATE's nonexistence in El Nido would mean that the islanders can bork up time some more by changing history, now that they're not bound to El Nido. You might as well say the Time Crash never happened, but Schala was compassionate enough to build El Nido herself and poof the people there with false memories. (which WOULD explain why she has to erase Serge's)
She has the same hair (Schala didn't have a pony tail when she came out of the DBT)
So Schala can't change her hairstyle now? Jackass XP
We know that Kid doesn't like dresses.
Good thing it's Schala. Phew.
Yet in the ending scene, the scene imply's that this is Kid.
How? The pendant, or what?
This almost imply's that Schala has simply adapted Kid's personality, when they merged.
NO!
Like they were never different people, but that compassionate side got to experiance revenge and anger for itself, and now that part goes back to Schala.
Even worse!
Like 2 entity's in one, even though Kid and Schala have the same soul, this is very likely.
Kid and Schala do not share a damn soul! They are not fated to merge, nor can they even logically do it since they're both complete individuals! This is not freaking Yugioh! (although it would be funny tro have Schala be in Chrono Break, and have her switch off with Kid every now and then. I'm suddenly thinking of that Paranoia Agent episode)
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And she also decides to dress exactly like her?
No. It's Schala dressing as....Schala >_>;
Like someone just said...
What...(that awesome guy)...was referring to was, also in the ending FMV, we see Kid (clearly Kid in her whole getup and everything) on a boat (Korcha-style) in the middle of w/e body of water...
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Forget all those quotes and please just explain why the diary starts with Kid's story then ends with Schala's thoughts and is signed Schala 'Kid' Zeal.
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Uh...um...Schala's telling both of their stories! Yeah...that sorta makes sense...booya...!...?...w/e...
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But wait, if Kid and Schala merge and they alternate which personality's in control, then do they both lose their virginity or just one? (Note that I'm assuming that Kid isn't the type to mount everything in sight.)
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Kid took over Schala's compassionate side. So if they remerge, It's be more like Schala simply sometimes haveing outburts in Kid's way, and other times Schala would act herself. It's Schala's body after all Oo.
@ AuraTwilight
If FATE and the Dragon God's were to exist, the game would be a continuouse loop hole...
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Kid took over Schala's compassionate side. So if they remerge, It's be more like Schala simply sometimes haveing outburts in Kid's way, and other times Schala would act herself. It's Schala's body after all Oo.
@ Jack-A-Roonie.
If FATE and the Dragon God's were to exist, the game would be a continuouse loop hole...
- From the perspective of the time-line, once Serge defeats the Time Devourer, it is as if it never existed.
- When Belthasar warps from Zeal to the new timeline, he does not discover that Schala had been absorbed by the TD, and he does not start Project Kid.
- In 2400 AD, FATE and Chronopolis were never built, the Frozen Flame lays dead on the bottom of the ocean, and the counter-time experiment does not take place.
- Lavos does not create a temporal distortion connecting Chronopolis to 10,000 years in the past, and the planet does not do the same for Dinopolis from the Reptite dimension.
- In 7600 BC, Chronopolis and Dinopolis do not fight and the Dragon God is not split into six parts by FATE or absorbed by the Time Devourer.
- Because the temporal distortion surrounding Chronopolis acts like a GATE, the Chronopolis residents appear in the Sea of Eden due to TTI and terraform and colonize El Nido as if FATE and Chronopolis still existed. The same goes for Dinopolis. In 2400 AD, the people who would have worked at Chronopolis mysteriously dissappear due to Time Bastard.
- The Records of FATE never work, except perhaps according to preprogrammed instructions. Elements may or may not be developed.
- Serge is born in 1003 AD.
- Schala does not create Kid, but she may appear in 1004 AD due to TTI.
- Whatever happened to Guardia in 1005 AD hopefully doesn't occur.
- In 1006 AD, Schala does not create a magnetic storm, and Serge does not go to Chronopolis. Wazuki does not become Lynx and Miguel is not imprisoned in the Dead Sea.
- In 1010 AD, Wazuki does not attack Serge and he does not drown. The dimensional split does not occur.
- In 1015 AD, Lynx does not attack Lucca's Orphanage (if it exists) or abduct Lucca.
- In 1020 AD, the new version of Serge disappears due to Time Bastard. The original version of Serge (protected by TTI from warping to the DBT) is sent to Opassa Beach by Schala. Serge's dimension crossing adventure does not occur. What happens to Schala and/or Kid is anyone's guess.[/list:u]
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Or can it possible that if something was destroyed in both dimensions, they don't have a chance of coming back. FATE was destroyed in both dimensions (Dead Sea), The Dragon God's were already devoured and they crossed dimensions and got killed.
Because the Time Split occured like in 1010, then shouldn't the past be un affected, but when the dimensions unite, anything that is missing wont exist? And the future of that reunited dimension won't have Chronopolis, FATE, the Flame anymore or anything. So Belthasar pretty much goes to a world with the central regime.
But I don't think the 1005AD war was unavoidable Oo
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Wow. You're all making this needlessly complicated. The way I've always thought about it, the Time split never happened, and since Serge never becomes the Arbiter (Schala's influence, like Kid, the magnetic storm etc. don't exist now) FATE never has to corrupt Wazuki, the Dragons never have to be killed, and FATE can continue controlling everyone's lives juuust enough to keep us from borking up time. Everyone's happy. Wee.
As for the Dragons, I just thought of something. The general consensus is that thee Dragon God was assimilated by the Time Devourer when it was broken up by the Frozen Flame and the Six Dragons are temporal projections. Well, if the Time Devourer is destroyed, and as some people put it, "denied existence" or something so it never did exist in some kookie....whatever, what happens to the Dragon Gods at that point in time? Do the Dragons become corrupted still and sealed way, and if they join together it's not the Time Devourer, or do they simply get devoured by the void? O_o
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Wow. You're all making this needlessly complicated. The way I've always thought about it, the Time split never happened, and since Serge never becomes the Arbiter (Schala's influence, like Kid, the magnetic storm etc. don't exist now) FATE never has to corrupt Wazuki, the Dragons never have to be killed, and FATE can continue controlling everyone's lives juuust enough to keep us from borking up time. Everyone's happy. Wee.
But if you look at it that way, wouldn't Serge be dead? I agree w/GrayLensman...
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No, because without Schala's interferance, he makes it to Marbule and gets cured >_>
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I think that Schala caused the interference because she knew that they would NOT make it to Marbule in time so yeah, Serge probably would die.
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Exactally, and besides the point that the peolpe on Marbalue are like dead or those ghostly things anyway >.>
Basically, in 1020 everything get's merged again. It split in 1010, and get's merged in 1020. Anything that happened before 1010 is the true past history. Anything that happened between 1010-1020 I'm not sure about. Since once the dimensions reunited, and alot of things were missing like FATE was dead, Lynx, The Dragon God's etc., they would not exist in the reunited time line. But the history that FATE existed should be there, just that in the future, it's un determined if they ever attempt another Chronopolis, since it won't work anyway because they don't have the flame.
Also, I think the Chrono Cross would exist in the reunited time line, since there's no more Tear of Love or Hate, they did merge into one, and since one dimension doesn't have the CC and one does, that should mean that the CC get's put into the reunited world.
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The people of Marbule aren't dead or ghostly for two reasons:
A.Those are dream spirits which are the Black Dragon's "nightmares" and have nothing to do with the Marbuleans, hence the fact they're only in Home World.
B. In Home World they're just slaves.
And Serge may or may not have been saved. It all depends on if the Sage would agree to have Serge healed. I say yes, the sight of a dying baby in the hands of his heart-broken father would touch the Sage, and he would have Serge healed and then kick them out of Marbule. Schala meddled because SHE wanted to heal Serge, not lead him anywhere. She didn't know who Serge was or why was he sick at that point. She just heard a crying baby, and wanted to save him.
As for Aura's Dragons' question... No, because they just woulden't be sent to the Tesseract. They woulden't be split. The DG would remain in his Dimension, watching how the Lizards lay eggs for the rest of eternity.
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Then wouldn't Dinopolis and Chronopolis still be fighting to this day? O_o and after like, almost 10,000 years, someone has to give.
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All depends about the future. It's all about what time line your in. For Serge, his past still exists. Like the past of his world, the information about FATE and Chronopolis versing Dinopolis. But because in the future of the world, there probably won't be a Chronopolis, there will end up being a different future, but the past history will be the same.
I sometimes think that El Nido is almost inside a pocket dimension Oo
Also, I think that Dinopolis might still be in it's own dimension. That's way to cruel. In a dimension where Dinopolis doesn't get sent into another dimension.
God dam, the Entity is so powerful that it can teleport huge area's to another dimension. Then it's almost as the Reptite dimension should be connected to Home or Another because it is the missing piece.
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Connected as in, "You could access it like you could Another and Home world via Angelus Errare?". Because that would be strange, seeing as Home and Another were parallel, but the reptite is completely different.
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All depends about the future. It's all about what time line your in. For Serge, his past still exists. Like the past of his world, the information about FATE and Chronopolis versing Dinopolis. But because in the future of the world, there probably won't be a Chronopolis, there will end up being a different future, but the past history will be the same.
That causes a paradox that FATE was trying to prevent. If it doesn't exist in the future, it doesn't exist in the past. Deal with it. No Chronopolis built in the future? NO EL NIDO!
Also, I think that Dinopolis might still be in it's own dimension. That's way to cruel. In a dimension where Dinopolis doesn't get sent into another dimension.
Woah, the power of the Chrono Cross didn't extend THAT fat >_> Not to mention Dinopolis became one of El Nido's islands, it has to remain there. The backstory of Chrono Cross (game) has to remain the same for everything to work out.
FATE has to exist, like it or not. If it doesn't people wander from El Nido and bork up time, keeping Chronopolis from being built, thus El Nido is never terraformed etc., causing a dangerous paradox that could destroy the timeline Oo; It's why Serge being the Arbiter was so damn dangerous. Once the Time Crash happens, fine. FATE can shut down because it's past self just got sent....to the past. So yea.
Nobody cares about the Dragon Gods, they can die without borking up time. But the war has to happen atleast.
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But FATE is destroyed.... If FATE exisits again after the dimensions reunite, then Serge will yet again be killed. And this will cause a forever loop.
FATE is destroyed. In both Dimensions, it'd dead. Once the Dimensions reunite, there will be no FATE. Maybe a fake projection, but no real Fate. Chronopolis also had TTI probably. So WTF? There will be no new Chronopolis in the future. But Chronopolis would still exist in the past because this did happen. But from the moment Serge destroyed the TD, there is no new Chronopolis. Belthasar doesn't need to look for Schala, no need for project Kid etc.
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But FATE is destroyed.... If FATE exisits again after the dimensions reunite, then Serge will yet again be killed. And this will cause a forever loop.
No. >_> Because if Serge never becomes the Arbiter, FATE has no incentive to kill him.
FATE is destroyed. In both Dimensions, it'd dead. Once the Dimensions reunite, there will be no FATE.
Doesn't matter. Here's how I look at it. Schala was freed, erasing her influence from the DBT on the timeline. Thusly, no Kid, no Magnetic storm. No magnetic storm, no Arbiter. No Arbiter, Chrono Cross never happens. Buh doy.
Chronopolis also had TTI probably. So WTF? There will be no new Chronopolis in the future.
If Chronopolis isn't going to be built in the future, then everything FATE was working for (self-preservation) is a waste. If TTI keeps FATE from poofing if Chronopolis isn't built, then it didn't have to waste it's time manipulating El Nido with the Records of Fate to preserve itself and the timeline.
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Hi there, new member here.
I posted here first, even if it is an old topic because I think I can answer the question about the clothes the two figures are wearing in the photos. That is, I can translate what is written besides the two images of Serge and Kid wearing them in Missing Piece.
Well, at least I can translate the important part, but not everything due to the size and low quality of the scans provided in the links posted in this very topic , in page 2.
Under the picture where Kid wears the dress (at the right of Kid sitting with the dress just like in the portrait) says:
"Uedingu Doresu ni mi wo kuronda Kid" (Kid dressed in her wedding dress). As you can see the book clearly states it is a wedding dress. It continues on telling something about Kid but I can not see the kanji characters very well in those scans. It's something about her feelings or something like that.
Below Serge's portrait is written: "Reifuku wo mattota Serge" ("Serge in ceremonial dress"). The next, last sentence I can't read very well because of the same reasons as above. However it seems like it only describes a part of the clothes.
I still don't think there is any solid answer to this topic but after reading that I am little more inclined towards one answer now.
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Why would Serge and Kid get married? Why wouldn't they? It's clear from the game they are in love with each other. To me, that's what Chrono Cross is: a love story. The thing is, once everything is said and done, we only get to see the beginning of their relationship, because by destroying the Time Devourer it was as if everything that happened throughout CC never actually occured. So, we see Kid/Schala standing there on what I assume to be Opassa Beach in a white dress (when I watched this again, it just all the sudden clicked to me that this was Kid/Schala, and not one or the other. The clue to me was the hair. Her hair is down like Schala, and yet she has a long ponytail like Kid. That sealed the deal for me), staring out into the ocean. So at the end of the game, we are at the beginning of Serge and Kid/Schala's relationship, despite everything they've gone through. It kinda works out funny that way, but I think it's great ;p Kato said something similar in an interview I read on this site, that Kid and Serge at the end of the game begin their "true journey" and that CC is an old fashioned "boy meets girl" story. So I don't think I'm far off when I say CC is a love story.
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That's right, Serge and Kid are meant for each other. After Lynx' attack on Hermit's Hideaway Serge is on Fargo's ship and remembers all his moments with Kid...
Also Kid obviously shows she has more feelings for Serge. And up until today I thought it was Schala in the ending and on the beach. But if that is Kid, it would explain why she has Kid's necklace (you see it in her hand at the end of Radical Dreamers - Unstolen Jewel), plus it means Kid really i searching for Serge.
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That's right, Serge and Kid are meant for each other. After Lynx' attack on Hermit's Hideaway Serge is on Fargo's ship and remembers all his moments with Kid...
Also Kid obviously shows she has more feelings for Serge. And up until today I thought it was Schala in the ending and on the beach. But if that is Kid, it would explain why she has Kid's necklace (you see it in her hand at the end of Radical Dreamers - Unstolen Jewel), plus it means Kid really i searching for Serge.
They make a perfect chemistry I might add... Although that Kid wouldn't admit it.
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There's something that bugged me...
Some of you said it could be Magus on that picture next to Schala....
But it couldn't be him. Actually, he couldn't appear in CC or in any CT sequels at all, because in CT you have the choice to KILL HIM.
So imagine: You played through Chrono Trigger, you encountered Magus and had the choice to fight him or let him join. You decided to kill him since he's such a cocky asshole and never played through CT again. Few years later CC comes out and Magus returns, searching for Schala. WTF?! I killed that bitch.
I'm just pointing this out to say Magus can't appear anymore, because some players of CT have killed him and didn't know any better. It might also be for this reason that they removed Magus from CC, and reformed him to Guile.
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Magus is mentioned in Chrono Cross (remember the note Kid reads?), thus pointing towards the ending in which Magus is alive and is searching for Schala. It doesn't matter what path you chose as the canon is determined by the games creators.
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Magus is mentioned in Chrono Cross (remember the note Kid reads?), thus pointing towards the ending in which Magus is alive and is searching for Schala. It doesn't matter what path you chose as the canon is determined by the games creators.
Yeah he's mentioned, but it's not said he has to be alive. In fact, I think the option is mentioned that he died. And if you kill Magus in CT, isn't that canon?
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I believe the Beyond Time ending with Magus alive is the canon.
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What do you mean? There was no ending with Magus in CC, and in CT they were only there if you let Magus live.
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Magus living is canon. Lucca's letter is written as if he were alive, which is indicated by two things:
1. First and foremost, she refers to him as Janus, and since they never did that during the original Trigger journey, we can presume that not only did he live, but he kept in contact with them and eventually mellowed out a bit, becoming more like his Radical Dreamer version, Magil.
2. She also mentions that he might have already found Kid, which also suggests he is alive and still searching for Schala.
You have the option to kill Magus, but it is canon that he joins you. Think about it this way: why give the option at all if his death were canon? Surely if his death were canon it would make far more sense to not allow him to join you. It'd be like having General Leo from Final Fantasy VI join your party after he was killed.
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I rest my case.
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Alright, then maybe it's not canon. But still, wouldn't it be strange for the more newly Chrono players? I mean, we all know the finest details about the games, but imagine someone never heard of the game and sees it in the store and thinks "That looks nice." And he kills Magus in his game without ever knowing he would have joined him if he let him live. Then for that person, it would be very weird to see Magus/Janus in a sequel...
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Not anymore weird than someone reading A spiderman comic in the official canon then picking up a copy of Ultimate Spiderman, these things happen all the time.
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Alright, then maybe it's not canon. But still, wouldn't it be strange for the more newly Chrono players? I mean, we all know the finest details about the games, but imagine someone never heard of the game and sees it in the store and thinks "That looks nice." And he kills Magus in his game without ever knowing he would have joined him if he let him live. Then for that person, it would be very weird to see Magus/Janus in a sequel...
Irrelevant. Magus living is canon, regardless of how confused a player may be about the situation.
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should the not make Magus live, just to make confused players happy?
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I guess, but you can count off on your fingers, if Chrono Break is ever released, Janus/Magus will certainly have a role in it.
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This might be out of topic but if Magus joins Crono's group, how did Frog manage to change back to his human form?
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This might be out of topic but if Magus joins Crono's group, how did Frog manage to change back to his human form?
Magus eventually mellows out a little after the death of Lavos, as we can surmise by his willingness to be referred to as Janus by Lucca. As such, we can presume that eventually he decided to turn Frog back into a human.
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As such, we can presume that eventually he decided to turn Frog back into a human.
Well isn't Magus a Gentalman. *sarcasim*
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Well isn't Magus a Gentalman. *sarcasim*
Actually, in Radical Dreamers he turned out to be quite the gentlemen indeed. Now, this is an alternate universe type of Magus, but it's about all we've got to go on when it comes to his personality, so while I doubt it would go as far as it did in Radical Dreamers, he might turn out to be somewhat of a gentleman, at least.
Consider how he would have turned out had he not dealt with what he dealt...he'd be a much nicer man, that's for certain, if his sister is anything to judge by.
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Well, Magus is both a jerk, and a nice person. A truly wicked being would not care for his sister. You have to realize that a lot of Magus' earlier wicked actions were to keep up an image for Ozzie and the Mystics. If he was nice he'd not be convincing, right? He got rid of them later, but being a jerk was still part of his personality, but that wore out eventually. Not to mention he may not be totally sane from the life he has led. :P
About the guy in the picture, it is most likely Serge due to the concept art, but why would they hide his upper face? They could have made him Janus at the last moment due to having taken Magil out of the game. Schala gave Janus an amulet, and obviously cared very much for him as well, so it would be sad if she only looked for Serge and forgot all about her little brother. Also, the clothing is described as a Ceremonial cloth, right? Does that make him the groom, or just a person attending her wedding?
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If this doesn't prove Kid's love for Serge, I just don't know what will.
(http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/8765/kiddeclareslovefa0.png)
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that seems more like casual flirting to me, but i guess its here willingness to such things that dose prove that theres a spark there. maybe not love (though if i remember correctly more obvoius evidence is present later in the game) but a spark. besides shes the female lead and hes the male lead having them paired off is typical romantic writing, but thats besides the point, throughout the game i think a closesness does become evident.
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Yeah, cause compliments mean true love.
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First, off Kid is hott. Second, the game is basically trying to save her. Third, if a guy saved a girl then she would fall in love him. It is simple fact.
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First, off Kid is hott. Second, the game is basically trying to save her. Third, if a guy saved a girl then she would fall in love him. It is simple fact.
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(http://cc.herograw.org/Zeality/picardno.jpg)
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Come on, Kyronea! You can't argue with logic!
...that's exactly why Kid married Norris!
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Come on, Kyronea! You can't argue with logic!
That's not logic! It's insulting sexism and/or childish belief!
...that's exactly why Kid married Norris!
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No.
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But its true.
Poke holes if you can.
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But its true.
Poke holes if you can.
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Fine.
First, off Kid is hott.
That's "hot" and it's irrelevant unless Serge is completely and totally shallow, which he is most likely not given what we can garner about his personality from his actions.
Second, the game is basically trying to save her.
No, the game is about saving Schala and eliminating the last remaining shadow of Lavos, not about saving Kid. Remember, you can choose to not save her.
Third, if a guy saved a girl then she would fall in love him. It is simple fact.
As I said before, this is nothing but blatent sexism. First, this presumes that all women must be heterosexual, which we know is not true(though it is true in Kid's case.) Second, this presumes that every woman has this damsel in distress syndrome, which we know they do not. Kid has a very strong personality, and while she'd undoubtably be appreciative of anyone who saves her from a fate, she is NOT going to fall in love purely on that reason. It's childish to believe otherwise.
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But its true.
Poke holes if you can.
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Fine.
First, off Kid is hott.
That's "hot" and it's irrelevant unless Serge is completely and totally shallow, which he is most likely not given what we can garner about his personality from his actions.
No.....but it's always a plus.
Second, the game is basically trying to save her.
No, the game is about saving Schala and eliminating the last remaining shadow of Lavos, not about saving Kid. Remember, you can choose to not save her.
Schala and Kid are technically the same person.
Third, if a guy saved a girl then she would fall in love him. It is simple fact.
As I said before, this is nothing but blatent sexism. First, this presumes that all women must be heterosexual, which we know is not true(though it is true in Kid's case.) Second, this presumes that every woman has this damsel in distress syndrome, which we know they do not. Kid has a very strong personality, and while she'd undoubtably be appreciative of anyone who saves her from a fate, she is NOT going to fall in love purely on that reason. It's childish to believe otherwise.
You are right here. But, all that states is that neither what I said or you said is fact, it's based on her.
Any ways, if they weren't in love why would Kid be searching for him?
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i think serge would marry her, i mean, he didn't even woke up in time to meet with Leena at the beginning!, it was a baaaad start
and when he meets kid, she helped save his life with a dagger and fire elements, that's hot
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:shock:I dunno maybe.... they fell in love :? (sarcasm intended)