Chrono Compendium
News and Updates => Site Updates => Topic started by: FaustWolf on July 06, 2009, 12:12:08 am
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The Month That Could Have Been draws to a close with some bonus footage taken while testing out the new playable character and some really really ridiculously difficult-to-reach gag scenes planned for the Choras casino. The second and final video is a credits reel featuring unused sprites created by Chrono'99, Darkken, and others during the project development cycle.
Bonus footage. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7WPXv_tQdY)
Credits reel. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weSdduAeQUc)
As you can see there was some real awesomeness in store. We'd like to thank everyone for watching and supporting the CEMemorial Youtube channel, which has logged an amazing 134,032 views in just over a month, plus 507 subscribers as of this post. We'll work out some way of distributing the raw video footage in the coming weeks.
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CEteam, the sprites for human Frog are AMAZING! I can actually picture this guy not using formal language. His frog form seemed much much older.
Except for the battle animation it came off well.
What happens when an irresistible force meets an immovable object? Hogan vs. Andre in the 80s.
And I am so stealing "Krag don't like this job no more!"
Gotta love the new remixed OST too. All of the new sprites are amazing! I believe that this was 98% done now. I was holding off until now, hah. BTW, what was the rock lotus sprite for?
Great job guys. It cannot be said enough. You guys achieved something great here. If nothing else, you guys are Youtube stars.
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Yeah, the CE team probably felt conflicted about releasing the Human Glenn footage since it was recorded while Chrono'99 was still in the middle of literally assembling him. The Human Glenn stuff was the last footage recorded prior to compliance with the Cease and Desist.
I'm not sure where the Rock Lotus would have been. That's a question for either '99 or ZeaLitY, or Agent 12 if he's back yet. Some of the sprites might not have been used even in the complete mod. To my knowledge the focus in early May was getting King Zeal; Human Glenn; and Sorin in, and if that all happened before May 31 then the team would have moved to the remainders.
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Sorin and Human Glenn are a definite win, plus the Neo Epoch(overworld and hangar) are awesome, and I apretiate how the Mystic Knights changed sprites after going with Spekkio(CC), I salute that kind of care to details.
Boy, what this Month Could Have Been! I can only applaud the CE Team, great work indeed, I hope that the complete footage gets released, this Month is something that maybe wasn't, but that doesn't mean we don't want it close to our hearts(I know I do), I know YouTube probably will have the vids for a while, but there is nothing like watching the whole thing uninterrupted (I did it last week, on youtube of course, it was a hassle, but the story can be apretiate better that way)
I will definitly be waiting for the CE Team next move, whatever it is, I know it would be of great quality. Never give up guys, you are clearly gifted for acomplishing something like this.
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Wonderful. I have no idea why, but I got really emotional when that Crimson Echoes Picture at the end of the credits came up (Box art maybe? =o). This has been a beatiful Journey you guys. I am now more determined than ever to make a videogame of my own someday. The dream of Zeal is Alive. Probably the greatest line in that whole game.
Either that or Frogs "I'm gonna go Medieval on you" xD. Oh I'm a mood ruiner XP
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Technically, Choras shouldn't possess such advanced technology...but whatever. Watching Robo be an advocate for safe sex was too hilarious for words. ("You might have a virus!" ROFL)
The credits reel...really brought home to me all the effort and skill put into this amazing piece of work (especially Glenn's sprite sheet O_O) This wasn't the month that could have been, but was a pretty close second. Thanks for showing it all for us! And, you know, if you ever put your experience to good use in a game of you own, well... ^_^
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Glenn's devolving into pixel-blobs made me laugh out loud.
As did Marle's turning Lonestar to ice. HAH. And Ayla was awesome, as usual. I think she got the wrong idea about Krag... 8P
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Poor human-Glenn--first subjected to not-quite-debugged sprite assembly code, and then to a frog that wanted to feel up his...sword... ::snicker::
It's probably just as well that we'll never know whether Magus was joking, though. o_O;;
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Shit, that was great guys. I'm a sucker for custom sprites, so the credits reel was quite impressive to me. Not a single sprite looked unprofessional...Though I don't think the world was ready for a 100% complete version of CE...
Well done, great work, keep your spirits up and all that jazz.
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Hey, are we going to see the staff ending? By means, the Programmers ending. Anything left to show? Is that really it? *sigh*
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The programmer's room was shown in Video 61. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abn-egem5PE) The closest thing to a "developer's ending" would be the first joke ending (Square Enix trial) in Video 87. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOQH__n7wko) To my knowledge.
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If only... Watching the incomplete human Glenn was awesome! Thanks for sharing, FW!
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Chrono'99 did most of the insertion and assembly for Human Glenn if I remember correctly, and personally sprited a huge number of his frames after justin3009 and TheOutlaw started him waaaay back in 2004 or 2005. I think that's how it happened, anyway. I'm just sad that we couldn't capture footage of the complete Human Glenn, because he was really shaping up to be kickass.
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Human Glenn started in 2006, since that's when sprite assembly hacking started.
Edit: There was some experimentation with human Glenn in 2005, but that didn't get anywhere because they didn't have sprite assembly knowledge.
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Huh, in that case it's kind of amazing just how recently a lot of the capabilities opened up. Just so everyone knows, Vehek deserves a huge amount of credit for...oh hell, we can't even talk about it now. So does justin3009 (note that while his early contributions specific to CE fell off as he pursued his own projects, he was still one of the first to investigate the tech code). And especially, especially Geiger for...damn, these limitations are cutting out half of what I'm trying to say. But in any case, if you see them around, know that they had a pretty significant role to play too, even if they appear in the credits only once. Everything listed there was crucial to the completion of the project.
Part of the misconception in various communities is that ZeaLitY tried creating this all by himself in his basement somewhere, in some kind of insane fan stupor, which is just so far off base; most probably didn't even have a clue as to Agent 12's or Chrono'99's dedication to CE until we started talking about a "core CE team." It was really the culmination of a lot of people's research and productive labor over the years, and I hope the credits reflect that. I also feel kind of bad that so many either couldn't be reached to learn whether they wanted to be credited in a project of questionable legal status (huge reason why the credits vid was delayed this long) or chose to remain anonymous and essentially uncredited, but such is the nature of choice.
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Just so everyone knows, Vehek deserves a huge amount of credit for...oh hell, we can't even talk about it now. So does justin3009. And especially, especially Geiger for...damn, these limitations are cutting out half of what I'm trying to say.
I'm not sure I follow...did the C&D state somewhere that you couldn't talk about the project, or was it something the CE team decided on--to not speak about certain things?
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insane fan stupor
haha even though that's not the case, it sure brings a funny mental image to mind!
And once again, I have to say I agree with Mikisho, watching the credits was very sad because what was done on this project was incredibly special and deserved a far better fate - I can only hope that as many of us will continue to remember and admire the unprecedented work done on this project, I know I will.
anyways, another sad aspect of the whole affair is now it seems very difficult to find the line where fan projects are legitimate and where they aren't.
for instance, i was hoping to start a fan project of injecting alternative original theme music into all of the original CT music placeholders, to have a new playable CT rom that might have an interestingly different atmosphere because of all the new music.
IMHO this would not be an illegal activity, but i've been especially nervous about asking for advice on how to go about this, and so have only done so hesitantly so far at best. I mean, besides this forum, I really don't know where to go for help... I am half-decent at programming, and know it's a matter of writing MIDI files that would result in SPC files of identical size, writing the utility to convert MIDI back to SPC, and writing another utility to inject the SPC files into the ROM the opposite way they were extracted...
thanks for any replies, even if just to confirm that it is inappropriate to ask here - I'm sure I'll figure out something eventually.
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The SPC data wouldn't have to be identical in size. It could be placed elsewhere in the ROM.
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Amazing. I loved the human Glenn sprites, as well as many of the other unused sprites. And the whole "relax" stuff was funny. XD
Seeing the CE logo at the end made me sad... Mainly because it's the same image used at the end of the CE trailer that was on the CE website. The first time I saw that, I seriously couldn't wait for the game to be released, and now... Ugh. Oh well, at least we got to see footage of the whole game and its endings, credits, and sprites. A job well done, guys.
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Just so everyone knows, Vehek deserves a huge amount of credit for...oh hell, we can't even talk about it now. So does justin3009. And especially, especially Geiger for...damn, these limitations are cutting out half of what I'm trying to say.
I'm not sure I follow...did the C&D state somewhere that you couldn't talk about the project, or was it something the CE team decided on--to not speak about certain things?
I could be wrong, but I think that's FW kind of trying to talk around some of the names of contributers who wished to remain off the credits roll...
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So, the Crimson Echoes uploading video activities have come to end, and Month that Could Have Been ended here at the same time.
Well, are you guys will send us C&D if we write a fanfiction or ROM hack that served as expansion of CE ? :grimm
jk, There are no wrong with the sprite. Congratulations for making this far, you guys did great with even the credit reel and bonus footage.
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I don't give two shits about SE anymore, I wish others had the balls to do what I did.
BTW, I never got the chance to see the developer's room, I still couldn't believe what Tony did. :P
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I'm not sure I follow...did the C&D state somewhere that you couldn't talk about the project, or was it something the CE team decided on--to not speak about certain things?
I just worry that talking about some of the technical things here would leave SE the impression that the Compendium is still into game modding, which it most certainly is not nowadays, in direct compliance with the C&D.
Oh, that's right -- nightmare, you actually opted to use your real-world name. A bold symbolic act.
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I don't give two shits about SE anymore, I wish others had the balls to do what I did.
BTW, I never got the chance to see the developer's room, I still couldn't believe what Tony did. :P
Burn your games? Sorry but I still think there fun.
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I don't give two shits about SE anymore, I wish others had the balls to do what I did.
BTW, I never got the chance to see the developer's room, I still couldn't believe what Tony did. :P
Burn your games? Sorry but I still think there fun.
As do I, I just burned my broken ones. :D
Of course, I'm still never buying anymore of their trash.
And I was talking about placing my real name instead of my username.
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I thought about that (the name thing, not the game thing...why blame & punish the artists for the work of the moguls and legal teams?) for a second myself, but then I remembered I only beta tested, my real name wouldn't be hard to find in connection with my SN, and that this was just a credits roll, not a statement of war. :lol:
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I kind of love this trepidation at discussing fan creations of a certain variety. It's turning into some mafia talk.
"I really might of loved that part, where this event may or may not have happened, and it may or may not have been created in a certain way, by a certain someone, who may, or may not be, the certain someone that this alleged typing is or is not being directed towards..."
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The SPC data wouldn't have to be identical in size. It could be placed elsewhere in the ROM.
Good to know, although now I realize that all SPC files are the same size anyways (roughly 64kb) regardless of the actual length or contents of the music itself. The music also has to be limited to 8 tracks maximum. I found a good utility to convert XM/MOD/S3M tracker files to SPC but for some reason the SPC files come out totally silent. Unfortunately the developer hasn't gotten back to me either so right now I'm pretty stuck. I was curious if the CE devs had made any progress with plans to embed Claado Shou's music into the ROM, but I understand completely if this topic is off-limits.
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Right, so I just caught up with everyone else and within 2 days watched all 90 youtube videos (counting bonus & credits) concerning this CE project. I'm sure there's been plenty of commentary already, so I'll keep mine short and sweet.
Big kudos to everyone who worked on the project and also props for keeping the whole thing under wraps during the entire developmental progress despite how awesome it was becoming. I'm sure everyone involved was just bursting to talk about it. Obviously a huge loss with the C&D, but thanks to those videos, at least everyone got to see you tell the story... and it was an excellent story, really. And when I say story, I don't just mean Zeality's work. The maps, battles, sprites, the people who simply contributed ideas, etc: they were all vital components of the story. Even without a game to play, the entertainment value of the videos alone puts CE into the status of greatest CT fan work ever. Considering how much amazing CT fan work is out there, I'm really saying something here, and I say it sincerely.
Oh, and special thanks to JP, C99, Zeality, & FW for inserting all the in-video commentary. It added a lot.
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Good to know, although now I realize that all SPC files are the same size anyways (roughly 64kb) regardless of the actual length or contents of the music itself. The music also has to be limited to 8 tracks maximum. I found a good utility to convert XM/MOD/S3M tracker files to SPC but for some reason the SPC files come out totally silent. Unfortunately the developer hasn't gotten back to me either so right now I'm pretty stuck. I was curious if the CE devs had made any progress with plans to embed Claado Shou's music into the ROM, but I understand completely if this topic is off-limits.
alright, i'm halfway there, i know how to write my own spc files that actually play back.
now it's just a matter of figuring out how to insert the spc files back into the rom.
does anyone think it would be a bad idea for me to start a thread about this project?
thanks again
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You don't insert "files", you insert music data in CT's music format. In case you don't know already, SNES music data does not have a universal format, as different companies (and games) use different sound engines.
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You don't insert "files", you insert music data in CT's music format. In case you don't know already, SNES music data does not have a universal format, as different companies (and games) use different sound engines.
I see - well I guess I'm trying to figure out how to do that then. I'm pretty sure I already read somewhere that there wasn't any universal format, even though all SPC files from all games come out to be the same size (and as far as I can tell, the same format).
Therefore, I'm guessing that everyone who rips music from game ROMs needs to do it in the specific way that works for that particular game. So, I guess I'm trying to figure out who originally ripped the CT SPC files so I can ask them how I might do the opposite, and put new SPCs into the ROM to trigger.
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SPC files are a dump of ARAM, which contains the coding to play the music data.
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Good to know - thanks so much for all your help.
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I've only just checked the Compendium yesterday for the first time since about the week of the C&D. I've spent then and today watching all 90 youtube videos of it and I've come here to have my say on it. Addressed to those that made it.
Couldn't see any kind of general CE topic anywhere, tried searching. So I guessed I'd use the most recent newspost on it. Don’t know if this should be moved anywhere or have its own topic.
Word of warning; this is going to be harshly phrased. No sugar-coating. (and I'm sure people aren't going to like me for this) I’m treating this as I’d treat an actual game upon review. This, if anything is a testament to the dedication that went into making this behemoth.
Okay, the gameplay design is bad. It kind manages to ruin Chrono Trigger’s great systems.
Ridiculous amounts of dungeon crawling in dungeons that don’t matter. Oh great, more monsters in another canyon or something. It was almost all just filler and had no point to the plot. I mean, the fact that Lucca and Robo’s reptite future time had ANY dungeons is just stupid. End to end dungeons as well!
CT had a good balance, this was just ridiculous. It was a chore to watch and skip through on YouTube, never mind actually play.
Dungeons should only really exist when they have a reason to be there in the plot, or because you need a quick one to break up a gameplay segment or build up to something. They shouldn’t just be there for the sake of length.
The DBT also really didn’t need a dungeon. It’s un-Chrono, it’s a pain and it’s a chore. (though it did look damn good)
And this ties in with all the boring gauntlets of fighting. You just kept throwing random monsters at the players.
The difficulty is also ridiculous. It shouldn’t be any harder than Chrono Trigger was if it’s meant to appeal to the fans. I mean, hell, I was watching a new game+ that tried to avoid battles and it not only seemed difficult, but now I'm entirely sick of the CT battle screen.
The puzzles were often badly designed too. In fact, the game design overall is kind of awful. Aside from all of the above; there was a lot of moments where they player could get lost. And things like that maze of random battles, or the frog catching minigame being higher pressure than all the fighting due to the timer and competitive nature of the sequence.
And the fights you can’t win till NG+ being replay value? It’s not. It’s just bad design.
Had Crimson Echoes been released, I honestly wouldn’t have finished it. I can tell. Providing I didn’t get stuck, I’d have gotten bored and ended up watching the cutscenes on YouTube anyway.
Though the fact you had to rely on Chrono Trigger itself for design doesn’t help. Repetition and an inability to create detailed new time periods and such. Limits the scope and meant that it maybe shouldn’t have been so long.
Now the story and some general thoughts from while I was watching.
Good writing was very occasional. I did think you got the weird tame Woolsley CT humour down pat. But it loses it the further you get in the main story, and NPC dialogue just eventually becomes meaningless references to stuff one of you likes. However, I did like a lot of the cool references and nods to CT and CC though. Particularly at the beginning.
I like the portraits. They’re a different style but they work.
Magus is a completely different character. I'm no fanboy and don't need him to be a badass. I’m okay with him losing a fight to Dalton or being all “the reaper fears nothing” before comically passing out.
But he was fairly quiet originally. And aside from one very Magus-y line in the Frozen Flame trial; you had him coming out with some ridiculously ridiculous crap in this game. I remember cringing particularly at the “we’re space aliens” part and the “hello! Dark innate, here”
I also think Schala and Magus reuniting kind of spoils the purity of his mission and drive to find her overall. But it’s not too big a deal, I suppose.
Would’ve been nice if Schala had a personality though.
I understand the reasoning for Crono not being mute, but I never saw him say one line that either mattered or couldn’t have been said by someone else. He even seemed to have lines that just seemed out of character. And by mute standards!
Thought the early violence/death changes were handled well. Death is still Chrono-style, but to have Crono cut down that Porre guy at the beginning like that would've been way too harsh for the hero. And the villain faking death seemed like classic CT humour.
There were lots of boring bits. Magus’ (after being captured by Dalton) and Marle’s (when thinking about Ann Guardia) life flashbacks were missable, for example.
But a lot of the original stuff involving meaningless conflicts and groups like the Vanguard and the like was just yawnworthy. I’m not sure Kasmir ever needed to exist. Just all seemed like more excuses for pointless dungeon crawling. The bizarre and/or forgettable names didn’t help. I just kept wanting the main story to go ahead.
Maybe if they were just sidequests I would've been okay with it.
King Zeal was a fantastic idea for a villain.
But first of all, it was way too obvious it was him as soon as you saw the name in the battle with Magus. You should've gone straight for the reveal when he appeared.
However, the big problem is that the writing for him is really crappy. I’d like to be more polite than that, but his lines are corny and he never makes much sense. His motivations and goals throughout are weak and even at the end he just seemed to be a dick.
And I can't take "the aresh kaddah" and the burning of Lavos seriously at all. That all just came off really stupid.
As did his ridiculous MY SUPER POWERS CONSISTENTLY SOMEHOW INCAPICITATE FOUR OR SIX PEOPLE THAT CAN ALL BEAT LAVOS.
Frog's speech change I didn't really have a problem with, except that there seems to have been no point to doing so. He never says or does anything particularly "kickass" or anything that he couldn't have said with the polite medieval speech. It's barely worth mentionting but it just seemed an odd choice.
The scene with Crono killing those two reptites on discovering Marle's deaths was just badly handled.
An interesting idea though. Maybe if a mute Crono had reacted and killed them all with the same animation. Cut the awful "I have a family" line and have Magus say the good line about how it won't matter once they change the timeline anyway.
Although it made me uncomfortable (in a well done kind of way), I liked the idea of the reptite world timeline and it’s end. Marle’s death and Lucca and Robo’s future. And it all being swept away by Crono’s overriding the timeline.
I thought that was a pretty good storyline, but thought that, for example, Marle and Lucca’s segments should’ve had zero dungeons and only one boss fight. (because the Dragon God computer thing was pretty cool)
The Neo-Epoch looks great. Totally matches CC. I was very impressed.
Ayla was harshly neglected in this.
And killing Kino is very questionable, especially doing it in that manner. Though Frog's affection toward her is an even worse decision. By the ending it was just...What were you thinking?!
Constant Deus Ex Machina with the Frozen Flame is annoying, but that is true to Chrono Cross, I suppose.
I concur with the video notations that the touch with the lights and the use of the Undersea Palace tune was working to great effect with King Zeal. But his awful lines and in that sequence his making that horribly long dungeon rather pointless...Not so much. Simply finding the old Masamune isn't really much of a reward for the dungeon crawling and the puzzling.
By this point I’d noticed how the plot had slowly been getting worse and was devolving into a bad fanfic. Especially around that awful rise of Zeal sequence. Crono’s return and the conversation with Zeal and just...Ugh.
Also, have I missed or forgotten something? What's with all this "planet's dream" stuff?
Ayla had some nice lines in her Frozen Flame 'trial' thing. But I did find the entire trial sequences boring and pointless.
Massive changes you made in time in the original game didn’t have consequences like in this. The whole having to have that Choras guy die just seemed really untrue to Chrono Trigger.
(also some of the hazy memories I have on Chrono Cross' split realities and the Darkness Beyond Time have me questioning some of the time travel logic, but I'll trust you guys know better than me on that one)
I'd expect it from Belthasar, but I also find it very questionable how a lot of the heroes talk like they've been reading Chrono Compendium articles for the last five years.
The pre-final battle conversation was nonsensical, inane, and pointless. The writing for King Zeal never fails to be terrible. And it becomes clearer that; he's just a dick. (I mean "Porridge of emnity" come on!)
A lot of the writing had this, even one person's notations at the end contained the same vague attempts at being deep, in the most shallow way possible.
The final boss looked great. As did the unused sprite of it. How come the stomach thing didn't get put on?
Exploring characters return to their times is completely pointless. The original game only showed you how the future changed because it's the only thing that would actually change after the last boss. They didn't need to piss about having you exploring all the places you’ve already seen, talking to people whose new dialogue consists entirely of "Hi, welcome back."
King Zeal's return at the ending was stupid. It undermines the player’s actions. And it’s pure Marty Sue writing.
Balthasar was CHALLENGED by the Frozen Flame to do his ridiculous Chrono Cross plan? Unless I’m forgetting something from CC that seems to make no sense.
Do we never see the Masamune after Dalton takes it? This seems weird. I expected a setup for Chrono Cross in there.
I actually really liked the "Chrono Break" lines. Clever and a nice way to end. (though Gaspar’s cheesy fade killed the moment for me)
For a labour of love by such dedicated fans of the Chrono series, especially those that understand the story in such detail, I don’t get how a lot of these decisions could have possibly been made. I mean the best example is that for all the attention to detail, Magus’ personality is practically not in the game. Not to mention the many easily fixed plotholes.
At the end of the day, I’d loathe to accept any of it as canon.
Either way, I do have to say that overall the scope, size, detail and just the entire technical side of all this is incredible. I mean, the game is huge. And despite technical limitations you managed to come up with some great new areas and sprites and the like. The polish was also remarkable. The ambitions at work were massive and in this sense, I think you reached them. I have to congratulate you on that. I've never seen a fan project like this. Considering the effort and work put in, and the fact that it obviously would’ve satisfied some people, I do think it is a shame it could never have been released.
If you ever worked on another rom hack again, it’s something I’d look forward to seeing.
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Mmmm....porridge of enmity. Complete with 100% of the vitamins and minerals every RPG bad guy needs!
But I have to disagree on King Zeal's lines hugely; I found them really stylish, and I never particularly felt that he was just tossing words around to seem impressive (see Prophet's Guile, where Magus does just that while posing as the Prophet). It's probably due to KZ's upbringing in a royal environment.
With regard to the puzzles, I wonder if the gameplay videos didn't quite do justice to those. The Singing Mountain drum, especially, was a real treat for the player when experienced first-hand.
Congrats on finishing all 90 videos though! If slogging through 10ish hours of footage doesn't justify the right to speak one's mind, I guess nothing can. What was your opinion on the new techs Vagrant? Ayla's out of character? Glenn's too powerful? Should they have just been kept the same as in CT?
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I had to fast forward through a lot of battles, particularly near the end, but the new techs were cool. It would have been cooler to actually use them. Same with the puzzles. Lost in translation from one media form to another.
And the dialogue was kinda cheesy.
But the story, the sprites, and (most of all) the connections between the two canon games were beautiful.
My absolute favorite two places were the Beginning of time, or Dreamtime or whatever you called it, and the Reptite Future. Awesome to the MAXX. Every plot point felt very final though, which, like Vagrant was saying, was not very Chrono Triggery.
The fact is, it's not Chrono Cross. And it's not Chrono Trigger. It has its own feel. It is its own game.
...Was.
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Nicely written, Vagrant, but I'd have to disagree with you on most of those points. I haven't watched all the videos yet (shame on me), but during beta testing I don't think I ever got lost. I can remember three parts specifically where I had to actually ask for help, and two of those were side quests. Mind you, this was during beta testing, so those issues were going to be fixed anyway.
About the puzzles... They are a lot more engaging while actually playing them. Watching anyone do puzzles or riddles in a video game - be it via youtube or your own tv - is always boring. But, pick up a controller and play it yourself, and it's a whole different experience.
As for dialogue and personality, King Zeal has to be one of my favourite villains in any game. Again, it just feels so much more intense when you're actually playing it. You could look back on any game after you've finished playing it and find that the villain was lacking, even if you were especially moved or impressed by that villain while playing the game. For example... Starcraft. My favourite game ever, hands down. Yet looking back on the dialogue or personalities, many characters are overly dramatic or take actions that seem unnecessary. Just about every good game has cheesy dialogue, but it's fitting when you actually play it.
As for Magus: I'm a fangirl, no two ways about it. Yes, he had some cheesy dialogue ("Death is nothing to the reaper!" for one), but he had cheesy dialogue in CT, too. He was always being dramatic, gruff, and threatening towards other members of the party. As an optional character he didn't get very many big lines either, so I think the CE team did well with what they had to go off of. I probably would have hated this game if they did Magus wrong, so that I'm still defending it speaks loads :D
The difficulty of the game is something that was brought up many times by many people during beta testing. The reasoning behind this choice is that so many people complained that Chrono Trigger was far too easy. It was refreshing to be challenged by monsters. Marle's solo chapters were the only ones that I went out of my way to skip battles in. But, because of that, I had to grind for a few minutes in Lucca and Robo's future timeline to make up for the missed EXP. The only other grinding session I took was in the Zeal Ruins? dungeon (forgot the name) for TP to get everyone's final techs. I only ever used a team of Magus, Marle and Crono when I got to choose, so everyone else was pretty far behind in TP and I needed to see their techs for testing purposes. If not for that, I wouldn't have bothered.
(Pfft, I say "actually" too much.)
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Vagrant I agree completely on the gameplay aspect of it and many of the characters we're fanfiction-y. But this was their creation to do with it how they will, Magus, and Chrono were the only too who I felt were almost new characters(for better or worse). Dialog wise I felt they did fine there were moments of 'they put that in!?!', especially the songs and memes.
As for King Zeal, no he wasn't not my favorite villian ever as so many here praise him to be, but he is a good one. In fact I like the fact you say he was just being a dick, as that's often how objectivist like him are perceived.
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I watched through the whole thing recently, and I have to say, I would have played it.
As with a lot of people, I thought some of the dialog was kinda bad (Magus, you sell-out), but like Zephira said, they did well for what they had to go off of.
I had to admit, I kinda laughed my butt off at some of the comments everybody made at FW, especially the Forest Maze. :p
But one thing I couldn't quite get was Schala's volunteering for that one mission. Did she volunteer just to commit suicide (as King Zeal suggested), or was it totally a fluke that she was sucked into the vortex? (I smell another maggiekarp creation...)
Also, I have to say, I thought Alphard would be more of a noble guy than he was in CE. I mean, it's a fanwork, so characters like him are really up to interperetation depending on who's writing the story. I'm just wondering: if both her parents are nuts, and her brother's a dick, where the hell did Schala's kindness come from? The Gurus?
My only real gripe is that I wish I could have seen the 'Glass Rose' scene.
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I'm just wondering: if both her parents are nuts, and her brother's a dick, where the hell did Schala's kindness come from? The Gurus?
Pre-Lavos Queen Zeal, presumably. Or the canon King. It's implied he had quite an influence on Janus at least, isn't it...? I forget. The Gurus probably did play a part in it though, especially considering Belthasar's dedication and loyalty to Schala in particular.
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Heads up, usenet apparently has the 98% complete ROM. This info is a little old, but I just heard this a few minutes ago.
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Might be the impossible-to-put-together download from a month back. I think someone at another forum actually managed to download it and determined that it was just the alpha, but we'll have to see if this is new.
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Sorry for the mass of quotes.
But I have to disagree on King Zeal's lines hugely; I found them really stylish, and I never particularly felt that he was just tossing words around to seem impressive (see Prophet's Guile, where Magus does just that while posing as the Prophet). It's probably due to KZ's upbringing in a royal environment.
Queen Zeal and others from Zeal surely had the same upbringing. I didn't see any sudden eloquence from them. :\
Though that's really the least of my complaints with the writing for him.
With regard to the puzzles, I wonder if the gameplay videos didn't quite do justice to those. The Singing Mountain drum, especially, was a real treat for the player when experienced first-hand.
About the puzzles... They are a lot more engaging while actually playing them. Watching anyone do puzzles or riddles in a video game - be it via youtube or your own tv - is always boring. But, pick up a controller and play it yourself, and it's a whole different experience.
I think that's a fair point. I think a couple of them (that I can't name off the top of my head) seemed indefensible regardless of participation. But others like that drum one; it's hard to say.
What was your opinion on the new techs Vagrant? Ayla's out of character? Glenn's too powerful? Should they have just been kept the same as in CT?
I've got to be honest, due to skipping through battles the only new techs I've seen/remember were Magus' steal and Frog's Braveheart. (the latter I quite liked) Any others I saw, only once or didn't know who did them or whatever. (I remember something with planet in the title?)
I couldn't really comment on the gameplay balance or anything unless I'd played it though.
Nicely written, Vagrant, but I'd have to disagree with you on most of those points. I haven't watched all the videos yet (shame on me), but during beta testing I don't think I ever got lost. I can remember three parts specifically where I had to actually ask for help, and two of those were side quests. Mind you, this was during beta testing, so those issues were going to be fixed anyway.
Really? I didn't know where the player was supposed to go to continue the game a number of times. Particularly on the world map. And the person doing the videos seemed to lose track of where to go a couple of times. (my detective skills tell me this was presumably FaustWolf)
As for dialogue and personality, King Zeal has to be one of my favourite villains in any game. Again, it just feels so much more intense when you're actually playing it. You could look back on any game after you've finished playing it and find that the villain was lacking, even if you were especially moved or impressed by that villain while playing the game. For example... Starcraft. My favourite game ever, hands down. Yet looking back on the dialogue or personalities, many characters are overly dramatic or take actions that seem unnecessary. Just about every good game has cheesy dialogue, but it's fitting when you actually play it.
Excluding the Sephiroth effect when I was young; I've never really had that. :\
And I've watched a couple of games on YouTube and still managed to rate good story and characters okay.
The praise King Zeal has gotten from some people really confuses me. KebreI praised him too. It's very possible that in my skipping and given my poor memory, I've missed or forgotten something. But his motivations and his actions simply didn't make sense to me.
As for Magus: I'm a fangirl, no two ways about it. Yes, he had some cheesy dialogue ("Death is nothing to the reaper!" for one), but he had cheesy dialogue in CT, too. He was always being dramatic, gruff, and threatening towards other members of the party. As an optional character he didn't get very many big lines either, so I think the CE team did well with what they had to go off of. I probably would have hated this game if they did Magus wrong, so that I'm still defending it speaks loads :D
Cheesy and dramatic is fine. Like I said I'm okay with lines like the reaper one. My problem was with the lines that were so out of character such as his little speech about being space aliens in the reptite timeline. Magus doesn't go on like that, and is unlikely to come up with a lie to get them out of possible trouble. Especially when his usual attitude is to fight anyone that gets in his way.
The difficulty of the game is something that was brought up many times by many people during beta testing. The reasoning behind this choice is that so many people complained that Chrono Trigger was far too easy. It was refreshing to be challenged by monsters. Marle's solo chapters were the only ones that I went out of my way to skip battles in. But, because of that, I had to grind for a few minutes in Lucca and Robo's future timeline to make up for the missed EXP. The only other grinding session I took was in the Zeal Ruins? dungeon (forgot the name) for TP to get everyone's final techs. I only ever used a team of Magus, Marle and Crono when I got to choose, so everyone else was pretty far behind in TP and I needed to see their techs for testing purposes. If not for that, I wouldn't have bothered.
I think it would've pleased most everyone (and not just the people that complain about difficulty) if it simply matched Chrono Trigger's difficulty. Moreso if you take into consideration how difficulty in RPGs is kind of optional. I mean, if a player skips fights and is underleveled, they have instant difficulty. If there's an extremely powerful tech and they're wanting a challenge - they don't have to use it.
(Pfft, I say "actually" too much.)
I didn't notice.
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And the person doing the videos seemed to lose track of where to go a couple of times. (my detective skills tell me this was presumably FaustWolf)
*Le gasp* Sherlock Holmes has risen from his grave and is among our midst.
Ok, smart-alleckness aside.
My problem was with the lines that were so out of character such as his little speech about being space aliens in the reptite timeline. Magus doesn't go on like that, and is unlikely to come up with a lie to get them out of possible trouble.
This is Mick Van Jovi we're talking about. He could easily have known about outer space technologies.
Ok, maybe my smart-alleckness wasn't aside.
Vagrant made a lot of good points though.
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I've got to be honest, due to skipping through battles the only new techs I've seen/remember were Magus' steal and Frog's Braveheart. (the latter I quite liked) Any others I saw, only once or didn't know who did them or whatever. (I remember something with planet in the title?)
I couldn't really comment on the gameplay balance or anything unless I'd played it though.
Ayla's (especially) and Frog's new techs made them more useful than they were in the original. Magus, on the other hand, seemed to get the short end of the stick--part of his usefulness in CT derives from the fact that he can cast attack spells of different elements, and he loses that in CE. Robo's Green Dream would have been more useful if he didn't have such poor MagDef (or perhaps that was the point).
Cheesy and dramatic is fine. Like I said I'm okay with lines like the reaper one. My problem was with the lines that were so out of character such as his little speech about being space aliens in the reptite timeline. Magus doesn't go on like that, and is unlikely to come up with a lie to get them out of possible trouble. Especially when his usual attitude is to fight anyone that gets in his way.
Magus is capable of lying through his teeth when he wants to--consider his stint as the Prophet, which was essentially one big lie. He normally doesn't bother, because he doesn't care who he kills...but he's bright enough to see that the Reptite timeline isn't something that can be gotten rid of just by running around slaughtering Reptites. I would say that his lying to the Xamoltan in order to get information is completely in character, even if the nature of the lie is a bit odd.
The difficulty of the game is something that was brought up many times by many people during beta testing. The reasoning behind this choice is that so many people complained that Chrono Trigger was far too easy. It was refreshing to be challenged by monsters. Marle's solo chapters were the only ones that I went out of my way to skip battles in. But, because of that, I had to grind for a few minutes in Lucca and Robo's future timeline to make up for the missed EXP.
I know that if I'd had the opportunity to actually play the game, I would have been grinding a lot, because having to start an area over annoys me even more than grinding. The ideal method of dealing with the problem would have been to have two or more difficulty levels--one for creampuffs like me and one for those who wanted a challenge--but that probably wouldn't have been doable in a hack.