Chrono Compendium
Enhasa Halls - Chrono Series Analysis => Chrono Trigger DS Analysis => Topic started by: Void on December 07, 2008, 10:38:25 pm
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What if it was Magus that helped Dalton cause the Fall of Guardia,he wouldn't know any different his memories are gone,he wouldn't know who Crono and everyone are.
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But then why isn't he supporting Porre in CC then as Guile?
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u have a good point there,but just saying with the fall of guardia ending the shadow looks very similar to magus this is just a thought of course
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I'm pretty the shadow is Dalton's. I suppose they look kinda similar, in a weird, only-in-shadow type of way.
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But then why isn't he supporting Porre in CC then as Guile?
Because he isn't Guile?
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Because he isn't Guile?
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg66/kingofkongs15/picard-no-facepalm.jpg)
We have a theory going that makes Eclipse Magus as Guile. You can find it somewhere in the CTDS analysis thread.
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That was ironic use of Picard, Try having an open mind about it.
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The long haired guy is Dalton... Magus wouldn't fight with a sword, and even if he doesn't remember Chrono and co, he has NO REASON at all to destroy Guardia anymore. So no, this theory goes right out of the window in my book.
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Dalton didn't use a sword neither, I think.
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He didn't in what we saw, but I could see him use one in a war, when he's low on MP or whatever. He's more likely to use a sword then Magus, anyway.
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We're getting heavy on the speculation here--just cause we haven't seen him use a sword doesn't mean that he wouldn't or couldn't--and if that sword's the Masamune, then maybe he'd just ditch the scythe for it.
However, I really doubt Magus would make such a drastic move for no apparent reason. Facepalm's aside, we assume Eclipse Magus is Guile, but we have no definitive proof either way, theories are theories after all. On an even more important note, why would Dalton even ally himself with Guile/Magus? If Dalton recognized Magus, I doubt he'd show anything but contempt for the man...then again, knowing Magus's power, maybe he utilized a confused Magus as an asset of some kind.
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Speculation is 100% ok... no one should discard anything...
Dalton could very well have used Eclipse Magus to help him overthrow Guardia. There are new theories in the CT DS Analysis thread that are worth a look too. It is conceivable that when Dalton traveled back to 1000AD, he found the wandering mindless-Magus. Think about it. Magus does not know who he is, yet alone Dalton, and Dalton knows this indivdual to have superior magic capability. He could have very well manipulated him saying that the "thing" he needed to do (Magus's dialogue in the forest) was to destroy the heathens of Guardia.
The FMV could be anything, really. I personally believe that is Dalton cutting down the last weilder of the Masamune.
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It's a bit too far fetched imo... Why would they waste Magus' role on the Fall of Guardia? He has still shitloads of other stuff he needs to do. And looking at Guile, he doesn't seem like the type that would believe anything somebody said to him.
But, who knows.
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In the Fall or Guardian CG, Masamune is taken by someone.
Is that one Dalton or ...?
We know in CC that sword has been in El Nido for a long time...and became demonic because Masa and Mune fell asleep.
What happened after that?
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Supposedly the Masamune is first found in El Nido by Radius and Garai in the Divine Dragon Falls on the main island of El Nido. How it got there we don't know. I presume Dalton had it first, but maybe he gave it to a Porrean and had him take it with him to El Nido to boost their force. And then the Porrean lost control of it or lost the sword altogether, whereupon it ended up in the Divine Dragon Falls.
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Yeah, I did hope they explain it in CTDS. Also the Einlanzer, it is not metioned in CT at all.
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The Einlanzer was probably before CT's time. If I recall, it was forged by Dragonians, and they didn't appear in the Keystone dimension until after the Time Crash. After the Dragonians died out it apparently somehow fell into Garai's hands (again. Ironic how he finds both swords.) And if I remember right, Dario also used it?
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The Einlanzer was probably before CT's time. If I recall, it was forged by Dragonians, and they didn't appear in the Keystone dimension until after the Time Crash. After the Dragonians died out it apparently somehow fell into Garai's hands (again. Ironic how he finds both swords.) And if I remember right, Dario also used it?
It seems I need to research CC's script a bit. In RD it is said Einlanzer and Masamune were forged by the same person.
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Well, who knows. RD is an alternative dimension. Perhaps Melchior made them both. Or perhaps someone else made them both.
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Yeah, but in these 2 time lines, 2 different creators create the same sword, that sounds unnatural.
BTW, speaking the Divine Dragon Falls, the shrine in Lost Sanctum has the ability to merge 2 gemstones into a more powerful gemstone, just like in CC, tear of hate and tear of love merged into the Chrono Cross.
Mabye in CC time line, someone might want to do something to those 2 swords there...
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I don't think the LS held any plot relevance. The Divine Dragon Falls has fulfilled it's use, and those two pedestals in the LS aren't probably very special.
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Wow,this has gotten very interesting i've played crono cross when it first came out and thought the einlanzer origin was very interesting also it is strange how Garai managed to get his hand on 2 legendary sword is there anymore info on garai other than things in the game?
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I doubt it, as mysterious as Garai is, most everything we know about him came from in-game context--no reference is made to him outside CC (he's definitely not mentioned in CT, and I don't believe he's mentioned in RD either)...
Back to Magus though, Guile doesn't have the heir of someone who was involved in war in any way. He has this very disconnected attitude...all we know is that he was part of the Magic Guild and that he sought to break into Viper Manor. We can assume he spent some time with Sneff, taking part in that Guild, but other than that, I'm not sure where he was. He's noted as being an adventure-seeker--that's what landed him in El Nido--but would he really engage in despicable acts and then flee to El Nido?
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I doubt it, as mysterious as Garai is, most everything we know about him came from in-game context--no reference is made to him outside CC (he's definitely not mentioned in CT, and I don't believe he's mentioned in RD either)...
Back to Magus though, Guile doesn't have the heir of someone who was involved in war in any way. He has this very disconnected attitude...all we know is that he was part of the Magic Guild and that he sought to break into Viper Manor. We can assume he spent some time with Sneff, taking part in that Guild, but other than that, I'm not sure where he was. He's noted as being an adventure-seeker--that's what landed him in El Nido--but would he really engage in despicable acts and then flee to El Nido?
No, Guile would never get involve in that sort if thing... wait, didn't Guile was 11 during the fall? How would he be involved during that war?
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Guile has not been proven to be Magus. There is no "theory" about Magus being Guile because there is no evidence for Magus being Guile. I think the word you're looking for is "speculation." Granted nothing says that he is not Guile, but nothing supports it either.
This is interesting; the idea of amnesiac Magus participating in the Fall of Guardia could make for some excellent drama in a future Chrono game. Unfortunately I don't think that we can conclude who the person in the Fall of Guardia FMV is. There just is not enough detail in the movie. I think CTDS has clearly shown that Dalton had a hand in it.
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Guile has not been proven to be Magus. There is no "theory" about Magus being Guile because there is no evidence for Magus being Guile. I think the word you're looking for is "speculation." Granted nothing says that he is not Guile, but nothing supports it either.
Right you are, we're assuming that Guile is Eclipse Magus, which may be a long shot, but our assumptions and speculations are still a theory, just a less valid one. Like Acacia Sgt. said, Guile would be eleven years-old during the Fall of Guardia, to have been involved in that is rather questionable. But an amnesiac Magus participating in the Fall would be impressive; Guile didn't seem like the kind of fella that would do it, but a memory-less Magus...who knows? Then the question we'd come to is why? Magus was looking for some purpose, but my goodness this seems drastic.
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Hey, for all we know, Eclipse Magus could have been sent to 994 A.D. and had been living with amnesia for 26 years when he visited Termina the day Serge showed up to recruit him for the Viper Manor raid. It may have referred to how many years it had been since his earliest memory, that being what is seen in CTDS' new ending, Eclipse Magus turning up in the forest with no memory.
EDIT: Thanks, mav, for giving me his age.
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Well, according to the Compendium's encyclopedia (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Guile.html) he's 26 during the events of CC...so 26 in 1020, which would make him 11 during the Fall. Now, we don't exactly know Magus's age in CT, but it's generally assumed that he's in his probably around 30. So there's definitely an age issue between Magus and Guile, even if he was sent directly to 1020ad.
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I'm afraid we can't say that for sure without knowing his age in CT. You say 30, but he really looks like 20-23 to me. He seriously doesn't look that old.
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If Guile is Magus, he doesn't seem like the kind of person that would associate himself with Dalton unless he was tricked. Though I don't think Dalton would be clever enough to trick Magus. And if he had amnesia, how would he know his age? He could have made it up.
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Because he isn't Guile?
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg66/kingofkongs15/picard-no-facepalm.jpg)
We have a theory going that makes Eclipse Magus as Guile. You can find it somewhere in the CTDS analysis thread.
I think you use this picture in every thread you post in...
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It shows his age in his status screen
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Keeping in mind RDMagus was about 30 after watching over Kid for six or so years, he could have been in his mid twenties at the end of CT. We think of him as being much older because plotwise it had been ten years since he was powerful enough to kill Cyrus and turn Glenn into a frog.
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ultimate punch!
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I think you use [the PicardPalm] picture in every thread you post in...
I don't. Plus, I found a smaller version of that pic.
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Very interesting theory -- this would be a way of reconciling the new canon with Kato's original quote that Magus is nowhere in Chrono Cross.
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Keeping in mind RDMagus was about 30 after watching over Kid for six or so years, he could have been in his mid twenties at the end of CT. We think of him as being much older because plotwise it had been ten years since he was powerful enough to kill Cyrus and turn Glenn into a frog.
Yeah, even Serge is much older. Because Lucca's favourite song was written by him... Guess he's at least in mid-20s.
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I don't think Serge is MUCH older, since in videogames people can be very accomplished at early ages, but he's not a teenager.
In any case, if they're saying Magus is Guile, and they have all sorts of other magical goings-on in this game, a slight age-reversal spell isn't gonna be that far fetched if they don't say something silly like "Yeah, he looked like a big ol' dude in the Frog flashback, but Magus was actually only 12 when that happened!"
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If Magus loses his memories and was Guile (which I ain't buying), then wouldn't Guile have a hole in his memories? The only way I could see the change from supposed to be Magus to never mind he's just a nobody named Guile to wait now there might be some possibility that he IS Magus is if they actually remake Chrono Cross and/or say so. Seems like if he was Magus, Schala would have something to say about it (or he would once he found her). Guile's just a magician from the Zenan Mainland in my books.