Chrono Compendium

Enhasa Halls - Chrono Series Analysis => Characters, Plot, and Themes => Topic started by: Leebot on August 03, 2004, 11:02:39 pm

Title: Character Trust
Post by: Leebot on August 03, 2004, 11:02:39 pm
Here's a question that lies behind almost all of the theories and analysis posted on this site:

Can we trust everything we're told by characters within the games?

We can probably trust almost all of it--these characters' shpeils (sp? Is there even a correct spelling?) are often the ways the producers and writers reveal the plot us; sometimes in an uncharacteristic manner (Kid in Chronopolis), sometimes appearing for no other purpose (Crono, Marle, and Lucca at the end of CC). These cases we can almost definitely trust.

Other conversations are less trustworthy. For instance, when Serge talks to Belthasar, Belthasar's plan has not yet been completely fulfilled, so he may have reason to lie to Serge so Serge will take the correct actions.
Title: Character Trust
Post by: Symmetry on August 04, 2004, 12:15:54 am
The way I see it, the game's writers wouldn't needlessly create text for the characters to speak - they've got enough to deal with as is. When the characters say something, I accept it as truth, at least as far as they could know from their discoveries in the game. What they say certainly isn't foolproof - the truth could be revealed later in the game, but until otherwise demonstrated, I consider the characters to be another pathway for the writers to convey the story.

Work on the premises given until something more solid is revealed, right?
Title: Character Trust
Post by: ZeaLitY on August 04, 2004, 01:36:28 am
Yes, that's how most of Belthasar's dialogue operates anyhow. When he first speaks to Serge, he does so in a tone of mere speculation, but we know that he's in charge of everything. The red-flagger case of incorrect dialogue is Lucca's explanation of Marle's family line.
Title: Character Trust
Post by: V_Translanka on August 04, 2004, 04:42:35 pm
Sometimes I believe it depends on which character we're talking about, why they say what they say, and what reasons and motives they would have for doing so. For the most part, I believe most of the characters as they have no real reason to lie. Although, this too may be reveiled to be wrong perhaps later in the game, or in an entirely new game if they wish to **** with our heads some. You never know.

Unless Kato tells us so that is.

He wouldn't lie to us, right?
Title: Character Trust
Post by: Chrono'99 on August 05, 2004, 10:56:40 am
Quote from: V_Translanka
Unless Kato tells us so that is.

He wouldn't lie to us, right?

I think he wouldn't. However, Kato's the one who said the Second Moon came during the Time Crash, and I still can make out only one big yellow moon during the orphanage sequence.
Title: Character Trust
Post by: GrayLensman on August 05, 2004, 11:44:12 am
Quote from: Chrono'99
Quote from: V_Translanka
Unless Kato tells us so that is.

He wouldn't lie to us, right?

I think he wouldn't. However, Kato's the one who said the Second Moon came during the Time Crash, and I still can make out only one big yellow moon during the orphanage sequence.


If the moons have separate orbits (which they should, unless the moons orbit each other), and thus have different orbital periods, they will only line up at certain times.  The conjunction seen in Chrono Cross may be as rare as a total solar eclipse.
Title: Character Trust
Post by: Casual Observer on August 05, 2004, 02:56:08 pm
Honestly, if most of the "bad people" tell you the truth, why would you doubt your own characters? Sure, they may have a bad idea on something that has more light shrouded upon it later in the game, but otherwise, it's foolproof.
Title: Character Trust
Post by: V_Translanka on August 05, 2004, 08:02:23 pm
Perhaps the second moon he spoke of IS the big yellow/white moon. The Red Moon could be the original, couldn't it? I know that the Red Moon can be seen during the fight with Zeal on the Black Omen. Are there any other actual moons represented anywhere in Trigger?
Title: Character Trust
Post by: Casual Observer on August 05, 2004, 08:33:44 pm
None that are shown. Though, it is interesting to note that you see the red moon on the Black Omen when fighting Zeal, and the Yellow, larger moon during the cut-scene of Magus' castle.
Title: Character Trust
Post by: Leebot on August 06, 2004, 08:46:50 pm
Quote from: Casual Observer
None that are shown. Though, it is interesting to note that you see the red moon on the Black Omen when fighting Zeal, and the Yellow, larger moon during the cut-scene of Magus' castle.


So, now we have evidence that both moons existed before the Time Crash. Or, is this something we can (dare I say it?) write off as an error by the programmers of CT? I believe that different events/periods of the game were written by different people, which we can use to explain a few inconsistencies (such as the explanation for Marle's disappearance differing from how time-travel works for the rest of the game).
Title: Character Trust
Post by: ZeaLitY on August 06, 2004, 08:59:09 pm
Probably atmospheric distortion. Belthasar remarks that the moons didn't exist prior to CT, and since we only see one moon in both cases, I'd say this is sound.
Title: Character Trust
Post by: GrayLensman on August 07, 2004, 01:00:27 am
The moon turns red during a lunar eclipse.  The size of the moon from scene to scene is simply a matter of perspective because there is no common frame of reference.
Title: Character Trust
Post by: Leebot on August 07, 2004, 06:22:42 pm
Atmospheric distortion sounds like the best answer to me. The Black Omen could be said to cause a lot of distortion itself, so let's just chalk it up to that.

A lunar eclipse, on the other hand, doesn't seem that likely. For one thing, there's no shadow on the moon. Granted, it is possible for the shadow to be close enough that atmospheric filtering would occur, but then there would be a definite gradient. Besides, the only reason we see orange during an eclipse is the pollution in earth's atmosphere; it would appear yellow if the atmosphere were clean. Pollution is also the reason sunsets/sunrises are so beautiful; think about this next time you admire one.
Title: Character Trust
Post by: GrayLensman on August 07, 2004, 07:17:22 pm
The red color of sunsets and lunar eclipses is caused by the refraction of sunlight through the earth's atmosphere, not pollution.  I admit pollution has an effect, but a lunar eclipse would appear red even if the earth had an atmosphere of pure oxygen.
Title: Character Trust
Post by: Leebot on August 11, 2004, 08:21:36 pm
Well, that's an argument that goes well beyond the goals of this site and the point of this thread, so I suggest we just leave it there.
Title: Character Trust
Post by: GrayLensman on August 11, 2004, 08:35:58 pm
Yes, definitely.  I we can safely conclude that the planet originally had only one moon and the Time Crash caused a second moon to appear in 7600 BC.
Title: Character Trust
Post by: V_Translanka on August 12, 2004, 06:58:12 pm
So wait, couldn't the fall of Zeal have caused the moon to appear red then? I'm sure that big Lavos laser beams bustin up the floating continent had to cause SOME atmospheric damage, right?

whatever I guess...
Title: Character Trust
Post by: Leebot on August 13, 2004, 04:44:50 pm
The view we're talking about is when you fight Zeal in the Black Omen, which could be in any time period (or maybe all, depending on how you look at it), not just 12,000 BC.
Title: Character Trust
Post by: ZeaLitY on August 13, 2004, 08:14:48 pm
Well, if that stems from the comment that the Omen transcends time, that statement has currently been deduced to mean that things within the Omen don't age. Some monsters do disappear if one goes back throughout time, and of course I believe the chests are taken. This proves that time still apparently flows normally.
Title: Character Trust
Post by: V_Translanka on August 14, 2004, 05:36:06 pm
Yes, and as a little side-note, the view is when you fight Zeal on the Black Omen, not in it.