Chrono Compendium
Enhasa Halls - Chrono Series Analysis => Lavos, the Planet, and other Entities => Topic started by: kennyj2003 on November 14, 2006, 07:11:19 am
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This might have been discussed already but I can't find anything on it. I understand Ayla calls "it" lavos because its look as a red falling star/flame "La means fire, Vos means big"(or the other way around >.< can't remember) But why does Zeal and others call it Lavos when they have no idea what it looks like or anything seeing as "it" never awakened before the destruction of Zeal. :shock: Could Ayla and others really have passed it down all those thousands of years:?:
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Maybe Lavos was seen as a mythical creature living near the planet during the time from Ayla and Zeal. It just became a Legend until they in Zeal found out that it is indeed true?
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Could Ayla and others really have passed it down all those thousands of years:?:
Apparently.
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It might also be 'simplified' for story purposes. They could speak a variant of it. In the same way that both Latins and Greeks have essentially the same name for their top god. The Latins have Jupiter, and the Greeks Zeus*, which is basically the same*. There could be a similar sort of connection, which Ayla inventing a name like Zeus, whilst the Zealots call it Jupiter - but the story retains Zeus, just to keep away from irrelivant linguistic considerations.
*Before anyone tells me 'No, they're just two different names for the same god!' let me explain. They are indeed the selfsame name. Instead of simply Zeus make it 'Zeus father' or, as it would be in Greek, 'Zeus Pater'. Mash it together. Zeuspater. Take off the ending 's' (which is an ending; the genetive of Zeus is in fact Dios, dative Dii) and you get Zeupater. Now, Z and I are a bit similar, at least in writing. Some Greek letters use an I shaped one for Z. Thus, Ieupater. Ie. Jupiter. Nifty, eh? Both languages have Indo-European roots, and the root for 'pater' is of extreme, extreme antiquity. Most western languages use a variant, from the English 'Father' to the German 'Vater', Greek 'Pater', and so on. And the Zeus-god is a very old Indo-European deity, part of both Latin and Greek roots.
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It might also be 'simplified' for story purposes. They could speak a variant of it. In the same way that both Latins and Greeks have essentially the same name for their top god. The Latins have Jupiter, and the Greeks Zeus*, which is basically the same*. There could be a similar sort of connection, which Ayla inventing a name like Zeus, whilst the Zealots call it Jupiter - but the story retains Zeus, just to keep away from irrelivant linguistic considerations.
*Before anyone tells me 'No, they're just two different names for the same god!' let me explain. They are indeed the selfsame name. Instead of simply Zeus make it 'Zeus father' or, as it would be in Greek, 'Zeus Pater'. Mash it together. Zeuspater. Take off the ending 's' (which is an ending; the genetive of Zeus is in fact Dios, dative Dii) and you get Zeupater. Now, Z and I are a bit similar, at least in writing. Some Greek letters use an I shaped one for Z. Thus, Ieupater. Ie. Jupiter. Nifty, eh? Both languages have Indo-European roots, and the root for 'pater' is of extreme, extreme antiquity. Most western languages use a variant, from the English 'Father' to the German 'Vater', Greek 'Pater', and so on. And the Zeus-god is a very old Indo-European deity, part of both Latin and Greek roots.
gonna be completely honest...I have no clue what the hell you just said.
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It might also be 'simplified' for story purposes. They could speak a variant of it. In the same way that both Latins and Greeks have essentially the same name for their top god. The Latins have Jupiter, and the Greeks Zeus*, which is basically the same*. There could be a similar sort of connection, which Ayla inventing a name like Zeus, whilst the Zealots call it Jupiter - but the story retains Zeus, just to keep away from irrelivant linguistic considerations.
*Before anyone tells me 'No, they're just two different names for the same god!' let me explain. They are indeed the selfsame name. Instead of simply Zeus make it 'Zeus father' or, as it would be in Greek, 'Zeus Pater'. Mash it together. Zeuspater. Take off the ending 's' (which is an ending; the genetive of Zeus is in fact Dios, dative Dii) and you get Zeupater. Now, Z and I are a bit similar, at least in writing. Some Greek letters use an I shaped one for Z. Thus, Ieupater. Ie. Jupiter. Nifty, eh? Both languages have Indo-European roots, and the root for 'pater' is of extreme, extreme antiquity. Most western languages use a variant, from the English 'Father' to the German 'Vater', Greek 'Pater', and so on. And the Zeus-god is a very old Indo-European deity, part of both Latin and Greek roots.
gonna be completely honest...I have no clue what the hell you just said.
He just explained how the name Zeus became Jupiter when the Romans adopted the Greek pantheon. It's actually pretty interesting.
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It might also be 'simplified' for story purposes. They could speak a variant of it. In the same way that both Latins and Greeks have essentially the same name for their top god. The Latins have Jupiter, and the Greeks Zeus*, which is basically the same*. There could be a similar sort of connection, which Ayla inventing a name like Zeus, whilst the Zealots call it Jupiter - but the story retains Zeus, just to keep away from irrelivant linguistic considerations.
*Before anyone tells me 'No, they're just two different names for the same god!' let me explain. They are indeed the selfsame name. Instead of simply Zeus make it 'Zeus father' or, as it would be in Greek, 'Zeus Pater'. Mash it together. Zeuspater. Take off the ending 's' (which is an ending; the genetive of Zeus is in fact Dios, dative Dii) and you get Zeupater. Now, Z and I are a bit similar, at least in writing. Some Greek letters use an I shaped one for Z. Thus, Ieupater. Ie. Jupiter. Nifty, eh? Both languages have Indo-European roots, and the root for 'pater' is of extreme, extreme antiquity. Most western languages use a variant, from the English 'Father' to the German 'Vater', Greek 'Pater', and so on. And the Zeus-god is a very old Indo-European deity, part of both Latin and Greek roots.
gonna be completely honest...I have no clue what the hell you just said.
He just explained how the name Zeus became Jupiter when the Romans adopted the Greek pantheon. It's actually pretty interesting.
actually, what I got was him diving into a headlong discussion of roman and greek varation in thee alphabet. >.>
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That's not really the point...
I mean, not many people who weren't either directly involved with Lavos in the Zeal incidents or the main party ever actually refer to Lavos at all, so it isn't that hard to believe, is it?
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Well a huge thing came crashing into the Earth during a crucial war that would determine who would survive (apes/humans or Reptites). I guess it could be believable that the humans told the story of the epic battle and Lavos crashing in the earth for many many years…
But even if the name was passed on… How would the people of Zeal know that the thing they’re taking power from is the same thing that crashed in the Earth in 65,000,000?
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Well, there can't be that many things that fell from space and drilled into the core of the planet.
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Queen: 'No, Schala, it's perfectly safe. I'm sure this is the OTHER demon in the earth. Nothing to worry about.'
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I'm curious about Lavos' name too. Anything that has a length of 64,987,000 years can easily forgotten. Even if there's an ancient artifacts mentioning the name Lavos, it can easily crumble into dust or might be forgotten by the time it reached 13,000 BC.
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Probably something that wasn't looked over.
But then again, it could be a language trait in CT. I mean, if they spoke the same language in 65,000,000BC as they do in 2300AD, then who knows. La Vos may be like Latin, a dead language, or some sort of slang or who knows. Though, I'm not sure how Zeal would make that assumption since I doubt anyone truely knows what Lavos looks like. Ayla called Lavos Big Fire because whilst he was falling, he looked like a fire ball, and secondly he was huge.
Zeal wouldn't know that Lavos was firey because he never fell. So this may relate to the flame. That the FF was found and if it's a small chunk of Lavos, then Lavos must be a huge firey thing. Hence he's a Big Fire.
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The way it happens was probably because Lavos was a huge part of history. If Ayla called it Lavos, then everybody in her tribe called it Lavos, and so, by word of mouth, the story of Lavos and all were told, and so the existence of Lavos was always recognized by the descendants of man, because all of the descendants of man, including Zeal, which must've broken off at some point. The legend stood the test of time, and so Lavos was connected to any giant apocalyptic being that attacked, simply because any giant apocalyptic being would be recognized as Lavos, and it just so happens that Lavos is the only giant apocalyptic being to attack. Had it been another giant apocalyptic being, that being would've been called Lavos, surely.
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Sophos hit the nail on the head.
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Thanks for the props. :D
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theoretically, zeal probably referanced Lavos with the knoweledge that he dwelled in the bowls of the earth, next to lava. and when Ayla was part of ct she learned magic which could always mean she helped the spread of magic. ayla was probably very much part of the zeal family, or at least cause the spread of magic.
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theoretically, zeal probably referanced Lavos with the knoweledge that he dwelled in the bowls of the earth, next to lava. and when Ayla was part of ct she learned magic which could always mean she helped the spread of magic. ayla was probably very much part of the zeal family, or at least cause the spread of magic.
Wow, you probably didn't play CT at all.
Ayla didn't learn magic at all. Nobody in her time had or could learn magic, as Ayla was "born before magic".
Humans gained magic in roughly 3,000,000 BC when they first made contact with the Frozen Flame, that awakened those powers.
As for Zeal, they maybe knew the word, but fully didn't understand what it was for. Then when they detected Lavos in the Earth, then maybe they put two and two together and realized what the source of all the power was.
However, as for 600AD +, only the Mystics knew about Lavos in 600AD, and after that, it seems that nobody knows about Lavos at all, or even cares, until 1999AD when they give it a name, Lavos which seems weird (I'm referring to the scene in the Dead Sea when we look at the atmosphere report and they call it L.A.V.O.S or w/e)
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no when i said she learned magic, i meant in the actual game, you know that part where they circled around the room 3 times and learned magic. she knew magic. there's no doubt, because in the game if she hadn't learned magic than she would have no powers other than hitting enemies with a club.
and i have played every game in the chrono series, even radical dreamers.
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Ayla never learns magic. Spekkio is explicit in her inability to do so.
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Ayla never learns magic. Spekkio is explicit in her inability to do so.
Thank You.
I reframed from posting as I would only hurt his intelligence.
Nicely put.
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theoretically, zeal probably referanced Lavos with the knoweledge that he dwelled in the bowls of the earth, next to lava. and when Ayla was part of ct she learned magic which could always mean she helped the spread of magic. ayla was probably very much part of the zeal family, or at least cause the spread of magic.
Here's a good suggestion... Play the game, read the facts then make a statement. This will prevent you from embarassing yourself.
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for the last time i've played the game.
even if she didn't posses the skills of magic she was still very powerful. plus she saw others use magic, she's not a moron she'd remember others using it.
Ayla never learns magic. Spekkio is explicit in her inability to do so.
Thank You.
I reframed from posting as I would only hurt his intelligence.
Nicely put.
plus where talking about the name lavos, not about ayla's magic abilities. anyway back to topic.
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for the last time i've played the game.
even if she didn't posses the skills of magic she was still very powerful. plus she saw others use magic, she's not a moron she'd remember others using it.
Ayla never learns magic. Spekkio is explicit in her inability to do so.
Thank You.
I reframed from posting as I would only hurt his intelligence.
Nicely put.
plus where talking about the name lavos, not about ayla's magic abilities. anyway back to topic.
Then you shouldn't have brought it up in the first place, using it as an analogy as to how it may have been passed down, when canonically, it seems that Ayla and the Zeal family aren't direct relatives.
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theoretically, zeal probably referanced Lavos with the knoweledge that he dwelled in the bowls of the earth, next to lava. and when Ayla was part of ct she learned magic which could always mean she helped the spread of magic. ayla was probably very much part of the zeal family, or at least cause the spread of magic.
Wow, you probably didn't play CT at all.
Ayla didn't learn magic at all. Nobody in her time had or could learn magic, as Ayla was "born before magic".
Humans gained magic in roughly 3,000,000 BC when they first made contact with the Frozen Flame, that awakened those powers.
As for Zeal, they maybe knew the word, but fully didn't understand what it was for. Then when they detected Lavos in the Earth, then maybe they put two and two together and realized what the source of all the power was.
However, as for 600AD +, only the Mystics knew about Lavos in 600AD, and after that, it seems that nobody knows about Lavos at all, or even cares, until 1999AD when they give it a name, Lavos which seems weird (I'm referring to the scene in the Dead Sea when we look at the atmosphere report and they call it L.A.V.O.S or w/e)
i was only saying how it could have possibly been passed down.
they weren't direct, but history is passed down somehow.
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I dony know, but chrono and Co. see the name lavos in the image of his day, and after, when you fight after magus, and fell into the portal to 6400000xxx ac, Gleen or the other say the word "lavos" maybe, ayla say this an call, lavos in reference, migthy la means fire (or big) but maybe means another one hundred of things, she and her tribe are just humans, semi-evolved, she learn new words when she know chrono, and his natural languaje has a tinny diferents words, maybe la, means all word that are closed to fire, like embers, lava, volcano, great meteorites, and more
The ones ho give the name to lavos are the zeal ones, and the people who live after the atack of 1999, find this information, and give the name of lavos to that big monster
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A more realistic view is that the game would've been stupidly confusing if in every time period lavos was referred to with a different name(while logically sound) that having everyone who needed to talk about him all call him lavos made things so much simplier. ^^
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Anybody take into account th Nu? they were around at that time. and they worked in the kingdom of zeal. Im sure that even if humanity had forgotton the name or that it was there the nu did not.. after all " All life begins and ends with nu"
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Anybody take into account th Nu? they were around at that time. and they worked in the kingdom of zeal. Im sure that even if humanity had forgotton the name or that it was there the nu did not.. after all " All life begins and ends with nu"
Well, the nu could've told someone. I dunno if anyone would've been paying attention- or believing them- in 1999, but you never know.
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(I was going to make a new topic, but since this is up)
The words in Lavos' name; do they have some kinda of real world origin to them? Like is there a something like "Fire-Small" or "Water-Big"?
And on the topic, within the game, it's most likely that Ayla told everyone. Or that the term for "big fire" was/is common in those early times; and eveyone that saw the crash thought the same thing. In both cases, the events became legendary since without it, humans wouldn't exist in the same manner as on Zeal.
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you underestimate the powers of historians and archaeologists. also seeing as how there is only one world-wide language through out time, it's very possible.