Chrono Compendium
Enhasa Halls - Chrono Series Analysis => Time, Space, and Dimensions => Topic started by: Starcore on August 12, 2006, 02:45:15 am
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So, I've been thinking about some of the different timelines, such as the Keystone, the Reptite Dimension, etc., along with some comments in Chrono Cross. Would it be safe to assume that there are infinite parallels of each universe? For example;
In the Reptite Dimension, Lavos never appears and the Reptites conquer the Apes. However, would it not be safe to assume there is another dimension in which the opposite occurs, and the Apes conquer the Reptites (And Lavos never falls to the Earth)? While it's never used in the storyline, it's always a possibly dimension that was never created (Or seen).
It's drawn from the show Sliders (If any of you remember it); basically, it theorizes that there are relatively infinite parallel Earths, in which each has an alternate outcome of possible events. So, a parallel of each world in Chrono Trigger would exist, where in variant A Crono is never born, in variant B Marle is never born, variant C Crono is killed as a child, etc. This doesn't have many applications, but it could still serve to explain the existence of the Reptite Dimension.
Another possibility of the Reptite Dimension is that the Reptites managed to defeat the Apes nonetheless. They were known to be far more intelligent than the Apes to begin with, and it is entirely possible that an alternate version of the world exists where the Reptites were victorious. This would also help to explain the "perilious times" that is infered in the Reptite Dimension Chronology; since Lavos still fell to the Earth, he would awaken and destroy it whether the Apes or Reptites were victorious. In fact, it could have delayed it; though unlikely, it is possible that when the Enlightened Ones syphoned Lavos' energy through the Mammon Machine, as well as disturbed him directly through the Black Omen, it altered his progress in absorbing the Earth. I can't substantiate any of this, but is in fact a possibility.
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That's a cool theory Starcore. Heh, I loved how you used Sliders as an example. Hey, anything could happen. If only a fan game could be made...
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So, I've been thinking about some of the different timelines, such as the Keystone, the Reptite Dimension, etc., along with some comments in Chrono Cross. Would it be safe to assume that there are infinite parallels of each universe?
This is possible. A guy in Chronopolis says this:
"It is not unthinkable that
such a time line could exist
in other dimensions.
Everything is purely a
problem of possibilities,
and the world is only
stabilized by the viewpoint
of the one who observes it."
Another possibility of the Reptite Dimension is that the Reptites managed to defeat the Apes nonetheless. They were known to be far more intelligent than the Apes to begin with, and it is entirely possible that an alternate version of the world exists where the Reptites were victorious. This would also help to explain the "perilious times" that is infered in the Reptite Dimension Chronology; since Lavos still fell to the Earth, he would awaken and destroy it whether the Apes or Reptites were victorious. In fact, it could have delayed it; though unlikely, it is possible that when the Enlightened Ones syphoned Lavos' energy through the Mammon Machine, as well as disturbed him directly through the Black Omen, it altered his progress in absorbing the Earth. I can't substantiate any of this, but is in fact a possibility.
The Reptite dimension is stated by Belthasar to be a dimension in which Lavos never fell. The "perilious times" mentioned in the chronology refers to the fact that the Dragon God and possibly the whole moon disappeared from that dimension when the Time Crash happened in the human dimension. The Dragon God was their main powersource so they probably suffered from its removal (imagine the Earth without petrol). As for the disappearance of the moon... well, that should surely have caused a lot of weird gravitational problems.
This would also help to explain the "perilious times" that is infered in the Reptite Dimension Chronology
Anyway, remember that the chronology was written by Zeality. It's the chronology which is supposed to explain events from the games, not the other way round (events don't have to explain the chronology; the chronology can be false, not the events).
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It has been awhile since I finished Chrono Cross and must have missed the Belthasar commentary. I'll have to go over that again.
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In the Reptite Dimension, Lavos never appears and the Reptites conquer the Apes. However, would it not be safe to assume there is another dimension in which the opposite occurs, and the Apes conquer the Reptites (And Lavos never falls to the Earth)? While it's never used in the storyline, it's always a possibly dimension that was never created (Or seen).
well i suppose there could be two dimensions where one is a lavos impact and the other is an astroid impact
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the explanation about the dimension theory is that it would be like a diffrent strands of posibilities, the thought is, that in every decission a person would make or possibily that may occur a new dimention will be generated to confirm a single posibility or probability so thats why theres so many dimensions..in CT dimention is not an issue because of the moon/sun stone incident proves that they are really traveling through one timeline..but the only problem in the game is the thought of the time paradox, it is impossible for the story to move on if the time paradox exist...dimensions are diffrent because yes you can change another dimentions timeline without affecting your own timeline, so there wont be any changes on your future nor your past same thing that you cant travel another timelines future and past due to time paradox.......so that means that if the dimension theory is correct timetraveling is not possible and if time traveling is possible then the time paradox exist..i'm sorry i just cant believe in time traveling due to the time paradox, but if memories are preserved then there is a posibility on time travelling just dont mess with the paradox because you will start all over again the paradox just means that a particular action is not posible during time travel......
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It's been my interpretation that there was only two universes (which we see in CC) and the Reptites conjured by the Planet is only a Dream, a sort of "Oh, if only things went like this..."
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think about it this way......if you gain access to another dimension then you have a whole new world that may not be identical but you may still find yourself there.... hehehehe i mean same thoughts going through your head and same character, its like your reflection in the mirror just stands out of the reflection and tells, you..... i know how sexy you are and daym i believe you......... :lol:
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It's been my interpretation that there was only two universes (which we see in CC) and the Reptites conjured by the Planet is only a Dream, a sort of "Oh, if only things went like this..."
Well, I have the impression that dreams and realities are kind of synonyms in the Chronoverse. In my opinion, the one and only "objective" universe might just be Zurvan, a chaotic soup of everything/nothing merged together... and the individual dimensions would be the dreams of each consciousness (wherever consciousness comes from).
Everything is purely a
problem of possibilities,
and the world is only
stabilized by the viewpoint
of the one who observes it.
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Exactly what I meant. All that applies in my theory, but I still don't think the Reptites the Planet conjured are from an actual dimension. It looks like the Planet created them as purely an anti-existence. o.o;; Then again, one could say that the Reptite Dimension was created at the moment of the Time Crash.
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It's a good idea to look at what happened to Chronopolis as well. No one doubts that Lavos' hand was involved with pulilng them back, just as no one doubts that the Planet brought some Reptites. However, Lavos' will was brought through the actions of men, the "counter time experiment." As soon as past-Lavos was able to communicate with future-Flame through the experiment, it's welcome to warp zone!
However, the warp from the Reptite Dimension not only crossed time, but dimensions as well. I am hard pressed to think of what agency short of a pure temporal potential (read: Reptite Chrono Trigger) could have brought about this powerful of an effect. Unfortunately, no sources in Cross give us any good info on Dinopolis' transition.
Relatedly, which version of the Planet brought Dinopolis? Reptite Dimension Planet? Keystone 1 Planet? Chrono Cross Planet? All three have a claim to it, as Dinopolis started in the RD, and moved to CCP to correct the imbalance of K1's Chronopolis. This IS important, because as Chrono Trigger shows, the Planet is not prone to shooting itself in the foot. If it's CC Planet, then that's exactly what happened, for its biggest weapon got its soul devoured by Lavos/TD.
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This is graet topic. I don't know if this is the right place to ask this, but I have a question about a teory. Is it posible that Home dimension which was created in 1010 A.D. is in fact original Lavos timeline (without being altered by Crono and his company), in which "Armaggedon" day did hapend. Why? Crono and others saved only their dimension (another world), because Home world dimension didn't exist yet (created 1010 A.D. and Crono destroyed Lavos 10 000 B.C.), thus when Home dimension was created,Lavos was still alive in that dimension, beacause there was no action by Crono and others in this dimension.
If that is true, that would explain the situacion why the "Armaggedon" day did hapend in Home dimension as seen in the Dead sea, while in the Another world dimension Armaggedon day didn't hapend, because Cronopolis was still there, and Crono did intervine.
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The Day of Lavos happens, yes, but it's not the original Lavos Timeline due to the presence of El Nido.
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I always assumed that the whole 'parallel universe' thing was a given. Especially concidering the fact that Radical Dreamers was retconned into being in one of these parallel universes, at least according to Cross. However at the same time things have to happen for a reason. It isn't enough the merely say, "the humans beat the reptites" without a reason why. In the original timeline, the reason given was that it was due to Lavos' crash and the evolution of mankind via the Frozen Flame.
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From what I can tell, the Chrono universe operates on a version of the multiverse theory. Most versions of this theory hold that any and all time travel result in an alternate universe, but as we see from Trigger and Cross, that does not occur in the Chronoverse. Instead, it seems to only occur when there is a paradox, such as Serge living and dying, or--had they not brought in a clone--Crono apparently disappearing before they saw him die and Lavos possibly killing them before they could seek out the Time Egg and a clone to use to revive Crono in the first place. Any paradox like this seems to be what causes the split in dimensions, and since normal time travel in the Chronoverse takes place through Gates and the Epoch, both of which utilize time error, it is very rare that one can ever go to a specific instance and cause a paradox, hence why none occur except for the two possible instances, in one where it did actually occur, involving Serge.
So I think we can take it for granted that there are parallel universes, but they rarely are created unless a paradox occurs somewhere, in which case the only way for the universe to not implode or be caught in an infinite loop is for it to branch out into another universe while the old continues to exist, and that most, such as the Reptite Dimension or the Radical Dreamers Dimension exist due to something else, such as being created when the initial universe was out of the Big Bang or something. It's possible a large number of paradoxes could have occurred then to cause them, or they just simply happened, with each universe existing separate from the other. This would also explain why Home and Another are able to be accessed by each other, because they are special in that they were not created by the normal process and thus are closer in some manner, perhaps existing on the same quantum level of reality as opposed to different quantum levels like all other universes.
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Yeah, it's still enshrouded in mystery. Chronopolis suggests that there are already infinite universes, yet somehow, the planet is conscious of certain ones (such as the Reptite Dimension, at least), and Belthasar has figured out how to create a new one through branching off a certain event (and merge them back together with the Chrono Cross!). The mechanics of all this are all unknown.
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So I think we can take it for granted that there are parallel universes, but they rarely are created unless a paradox occurs somewhere, in which case the only way for the universe to not implode or be caught in an infinite loop is for it to branch out into another universe while the old continues to exist,
Hmmm. This is what happens in the film, Donnie Darko, I expect that the time travel mechanisms are similar in both of the medias.
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My theory is this:
There exist infinite dimensions. However, the vast majority of them exist only in theory--they exist as possiblities. Chronopolis ghost says,
"Everything is purely a
problem of possibilities,
and the world is only
stabilized by the viewpoint
of the one who observes it."
Who does the observing? I posit that it's the entity/planet. That is, there're infinite universes, but they only exist when observed/interacted with by a planet's spirit. Since the entities are are the closest thing the Chronoverse has to gods, this makes a certain amount of sense. That might explain why everyone in the know can observe both dimensions--they're connected by a single entity's observation. That's also how Dinopolis came into existence--the planet, in a mighty effort, observed the Reptite dimension briefly and thus Dinopolis sprang into existence. The RD journal could just be an easter egg, or it could be an image from a defunct dimension, or even one animated by a seperate entity.
This also explains why time reflows--the Enitity watches Chrono & Co.'s journeys--and I'd imagine the Entity to be protected by Time Error, either by a Pocket Dimension or because dude, it's the Entity. It's powerful like that.