Chrono Compendium
Marbule Gallery - Completed Fan Creations => Crimson Echoes => Topic started by: Vargose on July 10, 2006, 12:17:31 pm
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Playable thy name is soon to be Glenn. Thanks to Vehek, I have been working on sprite assembly. This weekend I started working on replacing frog with Glenn. I pasted glenn's graphics over frog's and I built two 4x4 frames of sprite assembly. I just made two frames as a test. His facing up frame, and one of his battle frames. I included pictures below. Both worked great. The process of building a frame isn't that tough once you get the hang of it. Keep this on the down low.
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JP Addition:
Eventually we'll need to port this sucker over to a fresh ROM i'm going to put some things I've changed:
Applied Veheks Sprite Location Patch:
00E695 4 No 00000005-0000000D 9
24F540 94 No 0000000E-000000A6 99
Repoint Glenn's Graphics:
24200C (3 byes)
Change Palette:
I'm not convinced on the "offset"
240060
24005E (correctional) 24 bytes
Sprite Assembly
1C7490
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Big news......huge news......We'll need a spriter, shout out if you want the job.
--jp
I'll take a stab at it. I may not finish it all. But it's worth a shot. It'll be kinda fun. Just tell me what to do.
This is awesome. In that second picture Glenn fits so well with Crono and Lucca... It sounds so natural to have him in human form hanging around... This will be really fantastic when he'll have all his animation frames.
I don't know if I'm playing Mr Obvious or not, but note that Schala's spriteset was in the making some times ago also. It seems Oswego Del Fuego didn't finish it but it's almost complete: http://www.angelfire.com/moon/dandymasher/schala.html
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This thread will be used to keep us updated on what will hopefully end with a Playable Glenn.
We will need a sprite sheet for him. We are going to have to move it to unused space near the end of the ROM because Frog does not have enough space for his graphics.
As for techs we'll probably change slurp cut to rope cut.....slurp....I dont know....
Frog Squash will be Dragon Summon.
We'll also need a human Glenn Portrait.
That's all I can think of for now. This is definately going to take awhile so let out all of your excitement now.
WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
--jp
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XD! Here's a walk animation we may be able to use. I'll update it later on.
(http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/4223/fullwalksmall5bx.gif) (Normal size) (Seems small doens't it -.-)
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5302/fullwalkx27lw.gif) (x2 size) (What it may look like in ct)
What do you think?
Edit: Here's the frames for ya Vargose
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The trick is we'll need Glenn doing similar things as Frog. Frog's sprite sheet and the CT Character Library rom should help with this. Jsondag is building a test room for us aswell.
http://www.chronocompendium.com/images/wiki/b/b1/Frog_sprites.gif (http://www.chronocompendium.com/images/wiki/b/b1/Frog_sprites.gif)
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You can change slurp to Cure 1. Just change the whole tech itself. Just make it seem like since he's human he has the normal human techs.
Edit: We got a process now. I won't go on until he gives me the sign to.
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As for techs we'll probably change slurp cut to rope cut.....slurp....I dont know....
Frog Squash will be Dragon Summon.
Why Dragon? Dragons are the enemies of the humans, it sounds strange...
It'd be cool to put Nirvana Strike, but the name is too long and it wouldn't fit the dual and triple techs... Mmh, maybe something like "FrogNirvana"? Glenn strikes at the enemies multiple times while some little frogs rain all over (we could use the animation for Poyozo Dance). Just throwing ideas.
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Well what we are doing isn't really "tech editing" it's more changing the Frog graphic that comes down......we could turn it into a bunch of little frogs.....but I think making it some sort of summon would be better. I was just thiinking FF6 summons where they would just fly through and do damage.
--jp
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Yeah but a dragon seems strange considering CC... Then again, it's hard to think of something frog-related which would be stronger-looking than the big frog there already is... Perhaps a big Masamune creature could be good? It would be it whether Glenn has the sword equiped or not though... but let's say that unlike Serge's Masamune creature, this one is really Glenn's inner creation, not Masa and Mune's (explaining why the creature would appear even if the Masamune sword isn't there).
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For Nirvana strike you can put N.Strike
Also, he's not a frog anymore. So who says he has to have anything with a giant frog in it? Give him some other tech or something. If there's any super techs for water >_>. Or remove the tech all together
Kinda makes me wonder if we can add more techs then what they have...Anyways on with the topic.
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I did another two frames last night. His facing down frame and one of his walking frames. I found that some frames arrange the tiles differently, so I will have to examine the last 8 bytes of the sprite assembly data.
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Sometimes you have to use an unheader rom for some of these patches.. if you are, try using a header version.
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Vehek helped me confirm that the last 8 bytes are the X/Y positions of the four 4-tile groups. This explains why some of the frames arrange the tiles differently.
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I have gotten all of Glenn's standing frames done. Doing these has really helped me figure out the basics. Here is the patch.
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Here's the roomm you wanted (sorry it took so long).
It'll take you straight to the room it needs to and there's 22 Frogs in there. It slightly glitches as you walk through but it should serve your purpose.
just thought people would like to see what is done so far so I added a pic. Note that I'm loading the Frog PC not the Glenn NPC
--jp
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I guess learning sprite assembly is the perfect way to do this. We won't mention it to anyone. And really, Frog Squash is prepackaged and there, so it doesn't really have to be edited, considering Glenn would still use his skills learned from before.
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I know its been awhile. I got three of the downward walking frames done. I should have the other three done soon. Oh and by the way this is the first with custom made tiles.
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Here's walking up beta. I'm still kinda drowsy from waking up not to long ago so it's not my best work ><
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7479/fullwalkupx3betaeh6.gif)
And here's the frames
#2: Here's without sword on back. It's a little different but basically the same. (http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/8500/glennnoswordupx3ug7.gif)
And here's frames
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Do we want him to have the sword on back or not, or are both poses inserted in the game?
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Not sure. I think Vargose said something about using the one with no sword for Sprite assemblying it. >_>
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We want him with the sword. Both are in the game for the NPC. I needed both because in some cases the sword is actually drawn seperately and placed over him.
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Hello all. It has been quite on the glenn front for a while. I wanted to let you know that my evenings have gotten busy, which has killed my time during the week in which I could work on the frames. My weekends however still have an amount of free time. It just requires of me a little discipline. So my plan is to work on the frames over the weekends and do posts on mondays.
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I'll be honest and say that playable Glenn is one of those things I have to hold in my hand to believe it is real, like Mercury. It can be 100% pulled off, right? I'm just a little slow in totally accepting it.
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Yes it can be pulled off for sure. Each animation is composed of frames. Each Frame is created by the sprite assembly and is composed of 16 tiles. All I have to do is add the tiles in tile molester. Change the Sprite Assembly and rearrange the tiles in a hex editor. I did a test originally to make sure I could do both battle frames and walking arround frames. I also test to make sure I could resolve the size issue, but each frame I have done has proven I can do that. With Vehek's research on tech editing we should be able to change slurp and slurp cut, but even if that doesn't work I am sure I can do some fancy graphics hacking there. And as long as our spriters keep giving us custom sprites we will have a playable glenn.
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I can try to find the unused tech data stuff. So then we can try importing those to see what it looks like =/ Slurp cut I could hex edit it so he just criticals them or something. We should also try replacing alot of the menu stuff. Like update the icons, change the text. I've changed the text in a few hacks of mine. Looks kinda nice XD. (http://img321.imageshack.us/img321/3720/chronotriggerthethreadsoftime1999admap0045yl8.png)
All i did was just shorten the CT font by 1 pixel each. Works quite well =P
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Glenn will be in CT:CE for sure.
The one who's uncertain is Schala, but there is still hope >_>
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Yes, Schala is much harder than glenn for sure.
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Schala's .... She's just a bitch to put in =/
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Well there I was plotting my attempt at making a playable Glenn, and all of you have a major head start. I'm still reading through the whole board to get caught up. Then I'll download the most recent patch, and try to see where I can jump in.
But good work on the glenn sprites. I want to take a bite out of that apple.
It'd be cool to put Nirvana Strike, but the name is too long and it wouldn't fit the dual and triple techs... Mmh, maybe something like "FrogNirvana"? Glenn strikes at the enemies multiple times while some little frogs rain all over (we could use the animation for Poyozo Dance). Just throwing ideas.
We could use the Nirvana strike animation for Slurp cut's(or Leapslash) slot and call it "Cyrus Strike" or just call it "Nirvana" or "Sword Dance", then change the damage calculation.
I don't think It'd affect double techs, although I'd like to keep spire almost the way it is, I can't remember how it goes exactly, but it is one of my favorite Double techs.
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I did the last three downward walking frames last night. It looks great.
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It does look awesome. This thread is my favorite on the CE board :)
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But good work on the glenn sprites. I want to take a bite out of that apple.
Well Outlaw if you want a piece of this just show us what you can do. There is plenty of work to be done. The first thing I would say is try doing something with sprite assembly. If you can prove you can do something with sprite assembly you'll be a big help to this thread. If you just want to be a sprite artist, I will let you know what I need as I need it. This goes for anyone else who wants to help Glenn along aswell. If you have any question feel free to ask.
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Feel free to submit possible menu portraits for Glenn here.
Like this
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?topic=2829.msg57338#msg57338 (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?topic=2829.msg57338#msg57338)
Here is how it is done.
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Changing_the_status_menu_portraits.html (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Changing_the_status_menu_portraits.html)
There is a character from Dragon warrior VII I think we can use, Just gotta doctor him up a bit. Maybe add a cape.
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Here's an update on Glenn. I'm not sure if I did exactly what you told me to do because I had like 5 things going on at once so I was completely lost >_>''
(http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/2715/glennfullleftx3ua8.gif)
And here's the frames.
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Note for the future: At some point we will need to work on the weapon palette.
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Wouldn't the weapon palette be the exact same as frogs? Or is that kinda >_>''ish
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I figured we were going to use the same as frog's, because he still equips broadswords,
my question for Frog-Glenn is what will be the stat changes.
Increase in strength and constitution?
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I wanna say more magic and less speed. For some reason...
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The original plan was to turn Glenn into the new powerhouse, because Ayla was supposed to be replaced by Schala (the "weak" magic-user). But I guess if Ayla is kept having 2 powerhouses would be too much.
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Well Glenn definately should be a powerhouse, it makes sense, Being as powerful as he is as a frog.
Now i just realized that the black ripple on the walking sprite was from the gloved hand. Good piece of work.
What could we do for glenn's victory stance?
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I'm hoping for a remake of his old victoy stance
(http://209.85.12.236/5125/64/emo/frog.gif)
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In the middle of finishing my menu pic for glenn
I just need to edit the palette in snespal, and then rearrange the menupic as such
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I'm working on the battle stance at the moment. It's gonna take longer then expected as I lost the original frame of editing .__________.''
And wtf is with that animation? It's different then the original. Looks kinda creepy.(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4554/frogfn6.gif)(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4988/frog2ml5.gif)
Edit: The screwed up one has his pants as a transparency when they aren't o_O
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Ramsus is sketching something for the portrait.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/shanepain678/000000000000.jpg)
Funny, I've been working on a Glenn portrait in between Location maps
main focus right now is the contours of the hair, alsways the most troublesome part of menu portaits.
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I mentioned in the graphic hacking thread that I cut out part of a picture by Daniel Krispin and imported as a portrait.
Here's the part I used, reduced to 15 colors.
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Keep up the good work on the portraits. We will vote for which one we will add. Feel free to keep posting some.
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I may draw my own little portrait of Glenn. Althought I suck at coloring >_>
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I made a save state right after you get frog, so people can check out Glenn as he progresses.
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I may draw my own little portrait of Glenn. Althought I suck at coloring >_>
Yes, please. I rather think it will be better than that one I did.
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Mine is near finished, contours of the hair are just a pain, Glenn's hair goes stark lighter then as it does the Farah Faucaett feather out it goes darker.
Does anyone mind if I just do shading?
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I tried drawing glenn. Came out look like a physcotic moron :D
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(http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/1796/glenntakeoutswordanimationx3gf9.gif)
Here ya go. All the frames were made by Outlaw and I :P We make a pretty good team if I do say so myself
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It looks so sweet in animation, looks better than I imagined.
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absolutely amazing.
--jp
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I may be gone for awhile until Wednesday or so. Family stuff going on and I have to study a bit of Visual Basic and w/e. I'll try to work on Glenn a bit in my spare time if I can.
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udated hair, now I'm going to retone the skin for it to match better.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/shanepain678/glennbeta.jpg)
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Here ya go. -yawns-
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I shouldn't have saved that last one in .jpg
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/shanepain678/glenn.png)
Here is the portrait after some work I did last night.
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If this sprite assembly is possible on the chars, could we do it on the overworld sprites as well? Frog's body is WAY 2 small for new Glenn and it needs to be taller. I'm not sure if it's possible so i'm asking you guys >_> Also, is Magus or Schala going to replace Ayla? Or is Schala going to replace Magus?
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If this sprite assembly is possible on the chars, could we do it on the overworld sprites as well? Frog's body is WAY 2 small for new Glenn and it needs to be taller. I'm not sure if it's possible so i'm asking you guys >_>
Well a couple of things.
1. Sprite assembly won't solve the overworld sprite problem. Each overworld PC is composed of 4 tiles. Essentially a 16 by 16 pixel square. Frog has graphics in all four tiles. Since sprite assembly only really determines which tiles are loaded where, it won't help us. It can easily be done with just a grphics hack.
2. The real problem is simply graphics. Frog's overworld sprite is only a few pixels shorter than everyone else. It is as easy as putting Glenn into the 16 by 16 pixel space given. Now this may compress larger. So we may have to put the compressed overworld sprites in some empty space and change the pointer to them.
So just decompress the overworld PC sprites and change the graphics. When you are done post it, and we will find a suitable place for it in the rom, and we will change the pointer accordingly.
059A56 offset of overworld PC sprites
06FDF0 pointer to overworld PC sprites
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/shanepain678/VixtoryBeta.gif)
Here's beta Victory, the sprites aren't lined up right, so it looks a little off
i'll need to change the face somewhat, maybe legs
But the victory pose is almost finished. Overall right now it's flowing pretty nicely.
but touch ups will be done, I'll post an update when it'd done
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I can always make the animations and stuff. I'm used to doing that. As you can see on my avatar, sig, and outlaw's sig ><
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Yeah normally justin does do the animations, because my current animator sucks beyond belief.
as you can see mine can't hit Ct tempo on the mark, so it's either fast or slow.
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If we could get you animation shop I could help ya with the stuff. It's really easy to do once you get used to it.
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Glenn Overworld. The hair needs a little help.
(http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/8703/glennoverworldx2tv8.png) This gives a view of what it may look like on overworld.
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adding a dark dot between the two lighter one's on the hair should go a long way.
Because remember Glenn has a Farah-do, got to make it split.
kind of like John Stamos haird-do, as well.
I got an idea of a tech that could possibly replace leapslash, (of course we'll have a better concept of what we can do later along the lines)
But here's how it would play out currently a "No-Name" tech
Glenn throws his sword out which sticks into the opponent(critical hit) causing it to stop on the been hit animation, then Glenn goes up and pummels the enemy, with a left hook (2nd hit), right hook/uppercut (3rd hit), left hook (4th hit). then at the end he grabs his sword and jumps back. That'd be a critical hit followed by three more hits.
And all of this shouldn't be too hard to do in sprite animation.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/shanepain678/Ruunnin.gif)
Beta Glenn Running
the big question; sword hilt jostling good or bad
i'll see reactions from the sword jostling and that'll be a deciding factor in the final Glenn running sprites.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/shanepain678/Glennbackshit.gif)
This really isn't a beta, but it looks crappy thanks to my animator. The sprites for running back flow rathe rnicely.
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I like sword jostling my question is about his arms not being higher. It reminds me of the scooby doo running animation? Maybe it's just me.
--jp
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(http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/9595/glennrunningx2yi4.gif) Update
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Thats better; the other looks like he's trying to run while keeping his upper body perfectly straight and just using his legs. Like those weird military marches.
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Glenn Overworld. The hair needs a little help.
(http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/8703/glennoverworldx2tv8.png) This gives a view of what it may look like on overworld.
Everyone else is 16 pixles tall. Also don't for get his gold belt armor thing.
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(http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/1513/glennoverworldsmallyr6.png)
(http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/3664/glennoverworldx3lh2.png)
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how about this?
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I like the pants and cape better. But I don't wanna be mean but I don't like the rest of it much =( >_______________< Maybe combine both of our sprites? Pants and cape on mine and the rest the same?
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This Maybe?
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Update
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This is the one I like of Justin's. Made its 16 by 16 counter part.
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↓
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Good work
loving this OW sprites
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I still don't really see an issue with it.
It Ow sprites.
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There are only 8 colors for the Overworld sprites.
I redid the front and backs with fewer colors.
Also I am putting a plug in for anybody who can find where the overworld palettes for the PC's are stored
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The vertical line on Glenn's hair on the overworld sprites is a bit too pronounced I think (this makes his hair look like Trunks's).
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How bout this for the side view?
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Added more cape color and put an outline on his head...
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↓ (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3025.0;attach=832;image)
His running down sprite's legs look kinda goofy.
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I may not be working on this today as we're having really bnad storms all day =/ Power went out foir a few already so yea.
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the side walking for glenn's OW
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His running down sprite's legs look kinda goofy.
Picture him moving quickly across the screen, yes it seemse goofy. After finishing up the rest of running I may go back and work on that, it was origonally intended to be a 6 sprite animation, and we recently found out mor ethan likely we will be using 4 sprites.
edit-we will be using 4 sprites
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I think it looks fine the way it is. If you think that's goofy then go check out the overworld..
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Overworld set
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glad that we got that out of the way,
Victory pose and running (back) still in beta.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/shanepain678/glennpose.png)
well here's what should be the final version of the victory pose, unless anyone has any critiques that reveal something off key.
I couldn't do the animation test, since my animator keeps telling me to "Buy Now"
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(http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/3753/glennbattlestancefrontbigga9.gif)
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Glad to see you've got some internet back justin
and stance front done as well.
I'm going to start working on unsheathe animation
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I've had my internet back for ages. Just haven't been in the mood to sprite. I may not be spriting that much but at least some. Stupid School today .__.
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(http://img351.imageshack.us/img351/910/glenntakeoutswordfrontbigwj5.gif)
Also here's the sprite sheet of Glenn so far. Ignore the bottom stance on bottom <_< I'm gonna work on this at school since i have like 2 hours of study hall all together.
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I'm Glad human Unsheathe animation isn't messed up like it was on aim, making the unsheathe front sprite was the quickest and easiest so far.
Might make the first reach sprite's arm a darker color, but only if somebody feels it's off.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/shanepain678/Gelnninmenu.png)
update menu pic
nearly done all that's left is the cloak around the neck
Burning questions: How should the neck section of the cloak be expected to flow?
Should the Dark outline around the cloak be removed?
any other comments welcome.
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Can the green outline around the left side of his jaw be changed to black like the right side of it?
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easily, I didn't think that'd appear to quirky, So I'll just do it right now
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/shanepain678/almostdone.png)
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yawn
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Okay, if I had any other notes...are we taking advantage of all 15 colors? Just seems like we're using only about 8. If I could improve something, I'd put some darker colors around the outline of his hair or near the back, as right now it looks like blurred green jello. Other than that, just add some details to the collar and it looks great.
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Strangel all 15 colors are being used, 13 for the actual head then take away black and white which leaves 11, then that is 6 shades of green, 5 of skin tone.
2 colors had to be used to outline the head like the Magus and Chrono Menu pics.
I might change to black to a greyer shade, but that may make the face look too light.
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how about this for a menu potrait. I doctored up a FFT portrait.
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Here is what it looks like in game. I also made a patch that has all the sprite assembly I have done and the portrait. I also made a patch for just the portrait.
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Nice portrait. :D Love the new look for glenn
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It's possible, but FFT has an affinity for portraits with characters whose jawlines look like jelly. They'd be flat our rejected in a Batman casting call. The chin and jawline shouldn't necessary be chiseled in rigid marble, but it can't look too ovoid. Since we're editing pixels, it should be easy to change.
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Definately out of what we have I'd have to say this is the best. I've heard nothing new about ramsus portrait. It's usually better to do something with the same style so that the portraits have a continuity.
The kilwala turned sprite assembly guy strikes again.
--jp
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We should probably zoom in on that face for consistency. No other portrait shows that much upper body. Also, anything that can be done to make his face more manly and un-cheeky should be undertaken (FFT also usually has slim pinheads for portraits, in addition to puffy cheeks).
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Here it is zoomed in, and a wider chin.
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Yawnzored lol
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And to a post about the portrait. No offense but I think it looks horrid. The face makes him look anirexic, and his hair is way to short. Not to mention the design on his coat is not like glenn. I really don't wanna sound rude but it just doesn't seem right.
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Here is another one from a DQ7 character it needs some color work. I couldn't decrease the color depth correctly, but I was wanting to see if anyone could do something with it.
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Or this one
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That second one is great. If we were to make it perfect...
a.) Is it obvious we're ripping off something?
b.) Hair a little greener
c.) Little more of a smug smile to fit the attitude
That's it for me.
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Another Update on sprite sheet. I'm actually making great progress doing this at school.
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Greener hair with a smirk
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Here's a question about the menu portraits, both chrono's and Magus have a two-toned red background, if glenns has need for background filler's is the two-tone neccessary?
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=/
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here it is with his head lowered
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Another Update
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Another Update. This time by shane =P
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Another update!!
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ANOTHER UPDATE!!! -burns to a crisp-
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GOD DAMN ANOTHER UPDATE -turns into ashes-
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And another update
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With all these updates, Glenn will be up in no time! :D
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Well nearly All the regular sprites could be done by next week,
justin Decided to do the sprites that he knew were going to be rather quick, i managed to finish some up, finally got tunning back to work, all that's left for running is side, which will probably all be unique.
Glenn's attack sprite will be somewhat time consuming.
Pretty soon It'll be down to Tech-dependant
So starting up ideas for glenns Techs would be nice.
Definately a good isea to start off with slurp, onmce we have a concept of what's happening it'll go quick,
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yea
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I decided to post running side as I move on to the next sprites
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Climbing Finished.
That went rather quick
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I'm really sorry to say this, but I might have to drop spriting Glenn...I have to much stuff going on and I don't have enough time to work on him anymore. Damn school work...If I can, I can try to get some updates here and there but that may take awhile..
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If you do drop you will be missed.
I just need to study up for the SAT throughout this month so after the 4 of Nov. My time will be freed up afterwards, as of right now the only day a week I have freed up is sundays. I probably can finish a set of sprites by the end of today.
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Glenn is replacing Ayla, correct?
What is Ayla's starting Sprite Assembly offset?
I'm going to try to make things a little easier.
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Glenn's replacing Frog, of course! The power of sprite assembly and (future) repointing of graphics offset!
Sometime, I need to get back to analysis of Tech data, so that Glenn doesn't have the froggy Slurp and Slurp Cut.
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Dur hur, I knew that. :lol:
>_>
<_<
I'm writing a little tool to help out with it, though it isn't much, just a little easier than editing it by hex.
All that's left is saving and the offset from which to start reading from (though I would like the bottom textbox have the offset in it, so users can put in the offset they want instead of a fixed offset...)
Of course I can move the boxes around if they are positioned incorrectly.
You can make your own list and fill the listbox up with it, if you have the frames of animation commented (so you can skip straight to 'Running animation frame #1' instead of j'Animation Frame #45'. Just load a text file for it. Each list item is a new line in the text file, and the list will only go as far as you have items for it (so if you only have 30 frames to work with, only make a text file with 30 lines), but the default list goes to 255).
If nothing else, change the tounge graphics for slurpcut into a rope or grappling hook, and edit the sprite to reflect him tossing the spear-rope thing (think mortal kombat) and just rename the tech to something like HookPullAttack (or something much better XD).
-edit-
I'll work on this a bit more tonight.
For now, just enter the starting offset into the textbox under the listbox, then open a ROM, and then click on the list to edit that frame of animation. The default offset in the box is Crono's sprite assembly offset.
Saving should work ok, list loading is in place. Use on an unheadered ROM. I can tweak it around some, but anything better really would have to be in another editor by someone else really.
-edit 2-
Textboxes automatically highlight all the numbers upon clicking, and the numbers input into them can only go as high as 255 (any higher, and it will revert to 255).
-edit 3-
Attatched another version called SAEH, it edits in HEX, since I forgot that originally you guys were counting the tiles in HEX originally anyway. So if you perfer it that way, it's available here too. :P
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We could also just erase the tongue graphics for Slurp, and Slurp Cut would be a telekinesis move or something.
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You could just use Marle's Cure or w/e. As it's basically the same thing except with a tounge. (That sounded kinda dirty O_o)
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I'm really sorry to say this, but I might have to drop spriting Glenn...I have to much stuff going on and I don't have enough time to work on him anymore. Damn school work...If I can, I can try to get some updates here and there but that may take awhile..
If you do drop you will be missed.
I just need to study up for the SAT throughout this month so after the 4 of Nov. My time will be freed up afterwards, as of right now the only day a week I have freed up is sundays. I probably can finish a set of sprites by the end of today.
Take your time guys. We need people to stay on it. I would rather it take a long time than people start abandoning it.
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I'm writing a little tool to help out with it, though it isn't much, just a little easier than editing it by hex.
Keep up the good work CL, this will definitely help. I must apologize for my lack of work. I haven't put any sprites into the game in awhile.
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Creating the attatched image was VERY easy using Tile Molester and paint. It is the complete Crono tileset from the ROM.
The only thing needed to make such tilesets useful is an overlaying grid seperating the tiles, and maybe have them numbered according to tile. I was thinking of maybe a photoshop layer that could be overlayed on top of the sheets or something. Anyone know of any way to put a grid on an image? This could be used as a basis for a sprite assembly tutorial and we could use it ourselves. TileMolester can put a grid on them, but it will not save after I export it to an image.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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TileMolester can put a grid on them, but it will not save after I export it to an image.
Use the Print Screen button on your key board then paste into paint.
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and Slurp Cut would be a telekinesis move or something.
Sadly it won't be that easy
Glenn isn't telekinetic
and also if we want to keep fans happy it'll have to be action based.
Also if Glenn is going to be a new powerhouse slurp cut won't cut it
and leap slash will also need to be redon to give it a bit more punch it was always lacking in the power department
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I think we should just change it to rope cut and have animation look like he's throwing a rope.
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You could do that. In the pre-release, I'm not sure if it was slurp, but one if his attacks all he did was do a critical each time you used the move.
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I think we should just change it to rope cut and have animation look like he's throwing a rope.
I am seconding the animation
It'll save time, and then all we'll need to do is slightly increase the damage value
although the name rope cut implies he is cutting rope...
I'm going to look up "grab" in the thesaurus.
Jason could you list all the unused healing spells from pre-release
we could also save time and just have one of those replace slurp, and then come up with an animation.
I still want what is going to replace leap slash to outdo confuse.
P.S. the reason i didn't finish any sprites sunday was because i decided to do KOd and scared, both of which are entirely based off imagination. at least KO'd is 90% capes.
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The only unused healing spells that were in pre-release that I saw was esuna. Marle's tech that healed Status effects.
Edit: I won't be updating for another week .__. Packed down with so much crap from school it's not even funny.
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After looking up grap in the thesaurus here are some possible names for "rope cut"
Clutch Cut
Grasp Cut
Hook Cut
Latch Cut
Lash Cut
Roust Cut
Grapple Cut
I also decided to look up synonyms for cut; Sever, cleave, hack, slash, slice
So far single techs replacement list looks like this(to the extent of my knowledge)
Slurp-->Esuna (unless somebody comes up with a unique name to replace slurp): it will be moved down the tech list and ahieved later in the game
Slurp Cut--> slightly increas damage value make sprites that look like glenn is lashing an oppononet with a rope to rel in and cut. Name still undecuded
Leap Slash--> ____
Frog Squash?
We'll start to plan dual techs after we finish Single.
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By the way, Glenn's role should not be exclusively imagined as "the new powerhouse". He was intended to be because we originally wanted to replace Ayla by playable Schala (a weak magic-user), but since Schala won't be playable, Ayla will keep the role of the powerhouse.
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Leap slash still needs to be modified, especially since he is human now
or we could replace frog squash with something more consistant, it really seemed unbalanced when compared to skills such as luminare, especially when frog had full HP
He just does need a more damage dealing move, whether it replaces frog squash or Leap slash.
after Chrono 99's post I'm leaning towards replacing frog squash. Because that keeps Skill progression equivalent to other characters.
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after Chrono 99's post I'm leaning towards replacing frog squash. Because that keeps Skill progression equivalent to other characters.
But what would we change it to? I'm edgeing towards Nirvana Strike.
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Jump slash. Like Crono's =D!
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Tiny update! I think I can get back to work on Glenn after these multitude of projects are done. Should be done in a couple weeks or by next month.
(Also, I don't know if it's just the school internet or not, but I have to repost something like 4 times cause the page just doesn't want to load XD!) - Prolly cause of my animations in my stuff >___>;;
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I've started working on the basic attack sprites. I'm going to ease in slowly until after saturday (do or die day SAT) once that's over I just have community service(school project) and I should be back to full speed cranking out possible one set a week.
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By next week or so i should be back on track. Depends on how many more projects we're going to get...
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Also, just to beware, I'm starting to kick it back into gear on my project as well. So i'll be working double time for Glenn for your project, and Schala on mine. Expect some sprites soon hopefully.
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Good after Sunday I'll be fully back as well.
the attack sprites are in what i call the 2-bit phase. where I'm using two colors to outline what I'm going to do with Glenn.
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UGH!! I'll be not working on Glenn for longer time, due to MORE projects popping up non stop every week. FRIDAY I should be able to work on him. Definately, I don't care if I have homework, I'm going to work on him then XD
Edit: Had to clean for Thanksgiving the next day -.-
Edit Again: I'll probably work on it at school 8th hour. I have homework and stuff to do 1st hour -.-
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/shanepain678/glenncritical.jpg)
after a while i have finally gotten some representable critical hit sprites
there still "Beta" but good news is all that's left is minor touch-ups.
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Just to let you know i'm not dead, I'm just basically off for awhile. Lots of family issues and friend stuff going on lately. But Outlaw and I will probably try to do some gigantic updates and post them.
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well since justin requested a reupload.
we are planning on exploiting the christmas break to get sprites done.
i start tonight
justin has another week. I'll probably finish critical strike by tonight, and then move on to the other views.
don't forget it's still beta
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Thank the frikin lord. The other one was like wtfish when zoomed up cause jpg = the gay. But anyways, we're working fast on Glenn right now. I won't sprite tomorrow cause of funeral and crap, sunday if im in mood, we could get glenn finished.
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Up to date glenn Sheet
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Whoot
I finally made some good looking hair
Glenn critical attack front is done!
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Another update.
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I wonder if anyone's actually hacking the sprite assembly for those sprites at this time.
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Whoot
I finally made some good looking hair
Glenn critical attack front is done!
Awesome hair :o Looks like we're getting to the point where the frames are becoming concretely new, compared to the relatively déjà-vu non-battle Glenn spriteset.
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I was wondering the same thing. I'm pretty sure Vargose is probably working on it. He's talked to me a little bit bout a week ago but he had to leave for work or something.
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we're getting to the point where the frames are becoming concretely new
Yes, the two at the bottom were completely created from scratch. It takes some more time, but good results still come out.
Awesome hair
Thanks. What I'm most proud of n the sprite set is the arms on the bottom two, they turned out better than I had originally imagined.
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Yes, this is encouraging.
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Here's side
Currently Beta, but it's pretty close to what the finished set will look like
The only thing in question is the arms, ye or neigh will decide if they are the final set.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Back
****
not all that proud of the capes on the bottom. They're loosely based off of Frog's, but thanks to the difference in size it looks like I'll have to put my own spin on it.
go with the capes that look better.
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We need an update on Glenn's face pic. Scrolling through tales.namco forum and I found this dude.
http://tales.namco.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=45316&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=750
SmithyGCN. Maybe we could try to ask him to make a menu pic of glenn?
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We really do need more menu pic options. It was just me and Vargose for a while, As I remember we were planning on having an open competition for the menu pic. And it's definately one of those the more the merrier kind of things. even fanart people make can be submitted for a menu pic. I truly do want the best possible menu pic.
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While Glenn has priority, I think that if we make some sort of competition, we should eventually make one for all the other characters' portraits too. Lucca's one seems great enough, but Marle's one and Magus' one (for example) could perhaps be better. And we'll need one for Ayla eventually.
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If there is some kind of competition, wouldn't it be spoiler? "Draw human Glenn for CE", or, "with x*x size and only x colors"? Even if we won't tell it is for CE, the "winner" Artist still needs to allow the pic to be used for CE.
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Well I meant exclusive for CE members and close friends of CE members who are trustworthy, for instance you know somebody who draws really good CT-esque fanart, ask them if they're interested in drawing glenn for a competition.
I do agree We'll also have to do Magus and Ayla
And if the need arises we could create a real competition thread for all outsiders, but to fool them have the competition be a list of CT characters, Glenn, Magus, and Ayla being some of them.
The winner would obviously get the honor of having their submission in the game
Lastly for magus we could crop out the head from this pic
(http://chrono.lunar-net.com/cc/trigger/characters/magus/art2.gif)
P.S. remember Glenn is most important though, there is next to zero fanarts of Glenn that have a good face shot.
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On spriting Glenn, When i woke up this morning I had an idea for Surprised Glenn (front in my mind) So i may finally tackle that one today.
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All that's left is some more cape work, maybe some touchups on the arms, other than that this is pretty much what it's going to look like.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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The amount of stuff we'll be importing is mind blowing, and our meticulous documentation will all be for naught if...
...if every editor does not record it when he or she changes a hard value, like scroll, map size.
Resurrecting the ROM is a logistical nightmare but it can be done as long as editors write this stuff down at:
http://www.chronocompendium.com/CrimsonEchoes/HardChanges.html
At some point, we'll be able to comprehensively audit the ROM and determine if anything, including all old CT locations, is corrupt. If everything is perfectly A-OK, then we can actually set that one aside as a benchmark for checking against corruption in the future. But we still have to record every single one of those changes, or else we won't be able to recreate exact conditions for testing corruption.
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I wanted to give you guys an update.
The spriters are doing awesome work.
I, on the other hand, have not been able to make time to add the sprites into the game. Sprite assembly is time consuming and tedious at best. As such, I do not recommend depending on only myself to do Glenn's sprite assembly. Having said that I am also aware that I am one of only a few that really know how to do it. This requires that I actually finish the sprite assembly tutorial. So my next coarse of action will be to finish the sprite assembly tutorial so others can learn and so we can actually see Glenn get finished.
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The cushion room is kind of nice, i have a huge essay. After it's finished it's bye bye big assignments for the rest of the school year.
After I do it I'll look into the sprite assembly tutorial.
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After I do it I'll look into the sprite assembly tutorial.
I'll let you guys know as soon as it it finished.
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I am regretfully resigning from the Crimson Echoes Team and the Rom Hacking scene. Please understand that this is a matter of morality and conscience for me. To continue in the project I would have to continue to possess an illegal copy of Chrono Trigger, and participate in the creation of a derivative work. Both of which I can no longer morally justify.
That means I am leaving Glenn and the Sprite assembly Tutorial incomplete, but I am confident that others can learn Sprite Assembly by studying Vehek's original findings and my own work on Glenn.
And ChickenLump's Sprite Assembly Application will do wonders for those learning.
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?topic=3025.msg61116#msg61116 (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?topic=3025.msg61116#msg61116)
Here is my most up to date work
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?topic=3025.msg59092#msg59092 (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?topic=3025.msg59092#msg59092)
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?topic=3025.msg59167#msg59167 (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?topic=3025.msg59167#msg59167)
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?topic=3025.msg58661#msg58661 (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?topic=3025.msg58661#msg58661)
Those seeking to learn and follow in my steps, read these threads
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?topic=2872.0 (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?topic=2872.0)
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?topic=3236.0 (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?topic=3236.0)
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?topic=3025.0 (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?topic=3025.0)
I fully enjoyed working with all of you. Thank you and good luck.
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Well, fine. If it's just an excuse, I can understand; I have my own doubts right now, but I know that Crimson Echoes can be wonderfully completed once we get things in order. But otherwise, jeez. Chrono Trigger is hardly retailed by Square Enix these days, and you could pay $15.00 for a copy of the PSX version. The Compendium wouldn't exist had I not downloaded the Chrono Trigger ROM.
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He has other things to do then work on a hack. We all should know that and should accept it instead of trying to forcefully keep him in here. You'll be deeply missed Vargose, and I am happy that you contributed some of the most amazing stuff there is for the CT universe.
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Sad news :( The project will go slower now (I mean, when it will become active again at least). If you ever want to return to the project, you'll be totally welcome. See you in the next dimension!
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He has other things to do then work on a hack.
Well, fine. If it's just an excuse, I can understand; I have my own doubts right now, but I know that Crimson Echoes can be wonderfully completed once we get things in order.
I was aware of that; I simply think having an illegal ROM isn't so much a big deal to make.
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I was aware of that; I simply think having an illegal ROM isn't so much a big deal to make.
Well, if you "own" a real cartridge then you are merely modifiying your backup copy. Perfectly legal.
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I'm not trying to be mean Vargose, but, what we are doing isn't really that illegal. What can they do, throw us in jail?
But since you are most likely gone, goodbye.
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That certainly was an odd turn of events.
A choice made at a rapid turn.
Vargose will be missed, thankfully he gave direct links to follow.
I should be done with the essay by march 8th. (complete nuisance to have a 6 page essay pop-up after months of no home work)
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I should be done with the essay by march 8th. (complete nuisance to have a 6 page essay pop-up after months of no home work)
You have that essay too!? Damn, school is so gay. I wish they would make homework be more entertaining. Meh, I'll get back to work soon.
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I have to do an interview from someone from WWII, Desert Storm, Korean War, or Vietnam...So retarded ><
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Yeah, you think THOSE essays are tough? I have to write something on how burial practices and hero cults affected the rise of the polis in Early Iron Age / Archaic Greece, paricularly in Athens, ciritally examining the work of a scholar by the name of Ian Morris, and compare this to findings in one other area of Greece.
By the way, has CE died or something? Suddenly it just had a heart attack and stopped, it seemed. What did I miss?
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We all have schoolwork. I've been working on CE a little bit. But not enough to warrent an update.
We'll most likely get back on track this summer.
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Basically after we're done with the Glenn sprites, i'll be out of the project. Unless you guys want me to graphics hack something else real quick after.
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Yeah, you think THOSE essays are tough? I have to write something on how burial practices and hero cults affected the rise of the polis in Early Iron Age / Archaic Greece, paricularly in Athens, ciritally examining the work of a scholar by the name of Ian Morris, and compare this to findings in one other area of Greece.
By the way, has CE died or something? Suddenly it just had a heart attack and stopped, it seemed. What did I miss?
All "efforts" have been diverted to Prophet's Guile. But this really means that Chrono'99 is piecing things together while I map, write dialogue, and do a little directing.
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So what is Prophet's Guile? Is it suppose to be a mini rom hack in Magus's point of view or something?
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So what is Prophet's Guile? Is it suppose to be a mini rom hack in Magus's point of view or something?
Yes, that's the plot.
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Yeah, you think THOSE essays are tough? I have to write something on how burial practices and hero cults affected the rise of the polis in Early Iron Age / Archaic Greece, paricularly in Athens, ciritally examining the work of a scholar by the name of Ian Morris, and compare this to findings in one other area of Greece.
By the way, has CE died or something? Suddenly it just had a heart attack and stopped, it seemed. What did I miss?
actually, I would have enjoyed to write an essay on that, as well have been mused.
but an essay where you have to find 30 CD's, only to use 15, 4 book sources min, 2 internet sources min, and at least two interviews. That just irritates me beyond belief, mainly because they made us find the book sources in our school library, and barely anybody found anything on their topic. My topic was childhood obesity, genetic or habitual. My school had one book on chronic obesity.
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In Vargose's Absence, i've been working on a little SA and I think I pretty much have it down with ease. I'm working on what Vargose already had in the rom but didn't complete. (http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x220/Xxjustin3009xX/Ct-TiWithGlennTesting0002.png) - Which is partial side walk and back walk. I'll hopefully get both side walks and Up walking done.
Edit: Once I get the back and side walks done, I'll post a patch. But i'm leaving out the sword on his back for a test.
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Alright. I only got the side walking done. (Without his sword but a few sprites have a bit of it). Both left and right are complete. Any issues besides the sword tell me. Back i'm going to work on sooner or later.
Ips Patch below!
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Good job. I considered trying, but I couldn't decide whether to use the original Glenn sprites already in the rom, or the ones you drew.
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I played around with importing the OW graphics today. Did anyone ever draw an idle frame for Glenn?
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Nope, very nice importation of glenn though.
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I just adjusted a few colors in the palette and pasted Vargose's OW sprites into the PC OW sprites packet.
This patch I've attached takes up room at 46BDB0.
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Nice.
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I imported this patch on a fresh unheadered CT ROM but the game freezes whenever I enter an overworld.
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Only works on expanded roms because it puts the graphics in expanded space. If I used an unexpanded rom as the base of my patch, I'd wipe out everything in expanded space. (At least that's what happens with patches made with WindHex; I don't know if Lunar IPS does that too.)
I originally did my hack on a Crimson Echoes rom before reproducing it on another rom, and I couldn't find any free space large enough within the unexpanded space.
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Thanks. It's exciting to see him walk and stuff! Is anyone keeping track of how many frames Frog has in total and how many of them we have "Glenn-ified"? We wouldn't want to have some frames lost in the topics or something.
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Hey...concerning Vehek's last post, are we doing this on a fresh ROM that will later be able to be moved over to a a rom of our choosing? I thought we were totally replacing Frog so we shouldn't be using expanded space......(though frog is shorter I suppose....).
I double Chrono's question about total tiles vs glennified tiles
--JP
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The Glenn OW sprites makes the OW sprite packet no longer fit in the original slot. So I had to move it into expanded space to make it work.
I think the biggest problem for Glenn is that the game doesn't seem to work with re-pointed PC graphics.
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Is the reason it doesn't fit because Glenn OW is larger (not byte wise but sprite wise) then Frog OW?
--JP
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Yes, it's because Glenn's bigger. It doesn't compress as well as the original graphics packet.
Technically, I don't have to put it in expanded space, but as I said, I originally tested it on a Crimson Echoes patched rom, so all the free space big enough in the original rom was already taken. I used the same offset when I made the patch using an unpatched, expanded rom.
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So Vehek, you mentioned the biggest problem was the pointers, is the problem "figureoutable" or is it impossible to do this? If it is I would like to make this a bit higher in priority, it's our shock and awe.
--JP
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Repointing graphics does work but...only halfway. There's some other pointers or SA that is missing if you repoint it somewhere else.
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I've looked into this, and the game is programmed to only load the PC sprites from the original banks they're in.
The important part's like this:
Load graphics bank value into accumulator.
Subtract $D2 from accumulator
If accumulator is 0, go to bank $D2 loading code.
Subtract 1 from accumulator
If accumulator is 0, go to bank $D3 loading code.
Subtract 1 from accumulator
If accumulator is 0, go to bank $D4 loading code
Bank $D5 loading code follows
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Ehhh...How lame
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Any progress?
I'm feeling worried about whether some of the sprites (ex. climbing) can fit into the 4 tile groups.
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Unfortunate this is one of the few areas where I am pretty useless I wanted to make an animation changer like chickelumps but with a gui but I couldn't load the graphics correctly and thought my time would be better spent on techs and coding for the time beings
Jp
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Could TheMage help with the spriting?
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,5371.msg84938
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I'll send him a PM. I was trying to weed out some people by asking them to do that little challenge in kajar (where they successfully replace the baloon sprite). There was like a 2 week span where I added alot of people to this forum and they never did anything....
Everyone seems to be able to sprite until we ask them to haha.
--JP
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Everyone seems to be able to sprite until we ask them to haha
Maybe they steal others people art and claim it as theirs?
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Vehek, I read your post about the hard-coded limitation on where player character graphics packs can be stored. Does such a limitation exist on where NPC and enemy graphics packs can be located?
I'm wondering if it's possible to move a few of the NPC/Enemy GFX packs mixed in with the player characters. I see that the Millennial Fair dancer and a little girl of some sort are sandwiched in between Frog and Crono...actually, that sounded off-color.
Has the CE team decided to definitely insert Human Glenn, or is this still in question? I'll help as I can; is there an estimate on how many extra subtiles are going to be needed to make Human Glenn a reality?
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There's no limitation AFAIK for NPC/Enemy graphics.
I made a small hack that allows PC graphics to be loaded from bank $41, which solves that problem. It's used in the 8th character hack.
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?topic=4461.msg89335#msg89335
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Wow, you've done the necessary ASM work and everything. Kickass, Vehek!
What, exactly, are the remaining difficulties that have to be overcome to get Human Glenn functional?
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get Vargose back :(
seriously though everything we need to know we can do...it's a matter of sitting down and doing it (and getting sprite editors...)
I wanted to make a sprite assembly program with a GUI but I can't figure out graphics....I'm really bad when it comes to graphic stuff if you haven't noticed. :?
--JP
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Alrighty then, I'll make some headway on the sprite insertion guide and hopefully internalize all the info I'm putting down, then I'll give this a shot perhaps.
It's definitely a given that human Glenn is in, I take it? :lee: If so, let's make this happen.
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If a glenn is made there is absolutely no way that I wouldn't put him in. I actually made the tech editor because they were talking aobut glenn techs in this thread.
That being said if as much progress gets made in the next 6 months as has been made in the last 3-4 years...then were probably not putting him in.
--JP
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Vehek and I can help with graphics. I think Vehek, Vargose, and I are the only ones that actually know how to work with Sprite Assembly a bit...but since Vargose si gone just ask Vehek and I. We'll do our best to help.
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Okay, I'm full of sprite assembly knowledge and am feeling frisky. What's the current status of the Glenn sprite sheet? It seems that Human Glenn will follow Frog pretty closely in terms of animation frames, so I might be able to begin even lacking knowledge of CT sprite animation.
I slightly worry about running into the kind of problem illustrated in this thread (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?topic=5987.msg116972#msg116972), but I think we can bypass the need for a Size 1 sprite assembly through creative positioning of Human Glenn's tiles.
I can't sprite worth a damn (or at least not efficiently), so I'd suggest that a general spriting call go out to the community if we are still in need of new enemy sprites or if the Human Glenn sprite sheet needs finished (unless justin wants to take care of that, of course). Whatever artists can create, I can insert up until mid-January. I imagine the Size 0 sprite assembly restriction doesn't apply to enemy sprites in any way.
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I'm not particularly good, but I've tried and couldn't figure out how to fit Glenn's climbing or battle stance frames into a size 0 sprite assembly.
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Oh snap, I hadn't checked those ones out yet. We might really need to resolve the Size 1 assembly issue then.
EDIT: I'm not seeing a problem with the battle stances I've checked out so far, but the climbing frames definitely can't fit into a Size 0 assembly as far as I can tell.
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The main problem right now is some sprites won't fit into the four 4-tile groups.
A much more minor issue is that Zeality wrote some lines indicating that Glenn is still a frog.
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Ah sorry, I just deleted my post because I wanted to add something... Here is the original post which you've just replied to (Vehek)...
So, to clarify, what are the big problems with implementing human Glenn in the game? (...apart from the current lack of Glenn sprites?)
I don't know much about sprite assembly, but if Glenn's climbing animation glitches, couldn't we just not use this animation, to bypass the problem? We'd have him use the same animation as the one for walking for instance. People would notice this little trick but it's not like it's game-breaking or anything. We could do this with other animations if they pose problems, and we'd have less frames to sprite as a result.
Concerning the actual spriting, Magus' spriteset could be used as a template for most frames, perhaps, since he looks kind of similar to Glenn. Modifying his spriteset (palette swap, head swap, and a few tweaks on the clothes) would be easier and faster to do than drawing everything from scratch.
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And here's what I wanted to add...
What about making Glenn human outside of battles and frog in battles? We could replace the "draws sword" animation with "morphing into frog form" or something.
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Apparently VRAM space is handled in such a way that each player character can be composed of only four tiles, and if a character is composed of greater than four tiles then the extra tiles overlap the next character's tiles in memory. You basically get the dilemma illustrated here (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?topic=5987.msg116972#msg116972).
I would freakin' love to get this issue solved, but I haven't even scratched the surface on CT's memory management yet. I think Mauron, Vehek, Geiger, and Jlukas are the only ones with that capability.
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As an example of my frustration fitting some battle sprites into size 0 sprite assembly...
Damn pixels... Most people probably wouldn't notice if they were cut out when not zoomed in, but still...
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I think we could get the whole sword in by sacrificing a few shadowy pixels. The sprite would become a long L-shape, which is doable. I'm just concerned with the lack of freedom a Size 0 sprite assembly restriction places on the artist's part overall, which hinders quality.
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I don't think people would complain if some frames don't feel "perfect". Even if the spriteset doesn't have the best quality, the mere fact that Glenn is playable would be wonderful.
Is there any frame which is absolutely not doable in the current situation (like there's no room for half of Glenn's body for instance)? With creativity and a few compromises, I still think can make human Glenn playable.
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As I mentioned I fully believe human Glenn will be playable one day but it is something that should be a standalone patch developed in kajar labs. We have few enough resources as it is here. When ce is done I plan on updating and making new applications that will speed development of this sort of thing.
Jp
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Here's some more frames that can't be done with current technical restrictions on player sprite size, just as examples.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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As an example of my frustration fitting some battle sprites into size 0 sprite assembly...
Damn pixels... Most people probably wouldn't notice if they were cut out when not zoomed in, but still...
Perhaps...you angle the sword a little more?
EDIT: Damn, more discussion.
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Polishing the game is definitely the top priority, but I'm sure we'll find the time to do human Glenn after that, during the debugging phase for instance.
I don't think the sprite size is that much of a problem, at least not on the frames above. Cant1.png can fit if the tip of the blade is cropped by a few pixels (no one would notice this) and Glenn's left arm is brought closer to his forehead. Cant2 can fit with the L-shape trick. Cant3: just have the blade point to northwest rather than south. Cant4: either we just get rid of it and use the walking animation, or we re-draw it using Magus' climbing animation.
The situation is different than in 2006; we have all the knowledge necessary to do human Glenn now. We just need to crop some unimportant pixels and photoshop a few graphic tweaks on the existing frames, to make them fit groups of 4 tiles. This is something someone not coding could attempt, or alternatively I'll just try to do it quickly once all the code polishing is done. I can't see it taking more than 1 month at most if the photoshopping and sprite assembly work goes smoothly.
Anyone knows how many frames are missing for the complete Glenn spriteset?
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First step is to compile all the Glenn sprites that have been made thus far -- justin3009 had a 60 ~ 75% complete sprite sheet, but then TheOutlaw made some awesome frames separately. Anyone know where TheOutlaw went off to?
I'm not on the coding end of things, but I can do sprite frame insertion now (I'll still need to learn the animation format probably to be fully effective), so if someone wants to finish the spritesheet and tweak it I'll lend a hand.
Another matter is replacing Glenn's Slurp and Slurp Cut techs at the very least -- it would be very strange for Human Glenn to keep that loooong tongue. :? Plus, we'll need a brand-new portrait.
EDIT: The most up-to-date sheet to my understanding, incorporating the latest frames made by TheOutlaw. Spacing isn't optimal yet, so it becomes crowded around Human Glenn's attack frames.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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He's been busy with real life and what not.
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Okay, everyone. I'm almost finished with the ending (it's coded but I need to write the dialogues), but I'm posting in this topic because we can possibly manage to get human Glenn implemented after all. I've been completing his spritesheet recently, with like 1 or 2 frames a day. The spritesheet is 85% complete and all frames fit in Size 0. FaustWolf will be able to do sprite assembly for Glenn after May 12, so that gives us at most 19 days. It might or might not be enough, but it's worth trying, as long as we have everything else finished, right?
Here are some things that would need to be done to allow for human Glenn:
* Completed ROM: This is a no-brainer: we will definitely have finished coding, music insertion, etc. by May, so that even if we don't succeed in implementing Glenn in time, we will still have the complete ROM to release.
* Human Glenn graphics: As said above, it's 85% done. Doing 2 frames a day doesn't impede my coding and I will do like 5 frames a day once I finish with the ending coding and Chapter 14 polishing.
* King Zeal (final boss) insertion: I can do the sprite assembly for it so that FaustWolf can focus on Glenn. It's pretty straightforward. However, I don't know anything about sprite animation, so I might still need help from everyone on that part. I'm hoping it can mimic the animation pattern of the arm of Lavos' 2nd form maybe.
* The actual sprite assembly/animation work for human Glenn: I'll let FaustWolf comment.
* Human Glenn portrait: I hope Darkken doesn't mind doing one.
Everything else seems okay.
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I really REALLY like the dead frames on him. Those are awesome! I might work on him again soon if we have this. Since we now know how to expand animations and stuff, we can get this easily done.
Edit: Would it be alright if in a fresh rom that I moved Frog's graphics to the end of the rom and applied the 8th character fix to help? Do you guys know some chunk of empty space I could put his graphics at?
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Edit: Would it be alright if in a fresh rom that I moved Frog's graphics to the end of the rom and applied the 8th character fix to help? Do you guys know some chunk of empty space I could put his graphics at?
I'm confused by this statement... You can do whatever you want in a fresh rom? Please don't apply the 8th character patch to the CE ROM though.
This is alright by me 99. The graphics are uncompressed right? Will human glenn fit into Frog's space or will it use unused space? Obviously human glenn == totally worth using unused space but I'm just curious. I can do King Zeal insertion since I should have some unused cycles.
We should really make a glenn standalone patch though if we do this so that other people can use it in their hacks.
--JP
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Human Glenn has to be unused space, his frames are way above and beyond the space. And no, I don't mean the full blown 8th character patch, I mean the sprite fix so you can have Human Glenn bumped into the 410000 area, that's ALL it's for.
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ok needing to use unused space makes since. What does this patch do exactly? How many bytes does it change etc. I'll personally do the chance when were ready but as i mentioned above I feel like it'd be rude/ silly of us to not make this patch as general as possible so I think we should do everything on a fresh rom and then just repoint it when CE knows where in the rom it is placing him.
--JP
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The one thing I'm still concerned about in the revised spritesheet are a few of Glenn's weapon frames. For example, see here (each little box is 8x8 pixels and everything inside the dotted lines is within Size 0 space):
(http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/766/image1b.png)(http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/2564/image2o.png)(http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/2213/image3.png)
The leftmost frame is probably a matter of shifting the cape differently. In the middle frame, the problem is really minor, and maybe Glenn could even do without a sprite outline (it's the cape outline that sticks outside of Size 0 space). The rightmost frame is the one that's most disconcerting, because both Glenn's knee and jump shadow lie outside Size 0 space. Some space could probably be freed up by having Glenn place the broadsword against his back during the jump, sort of like how Cloud Strife does in "Braver."
But first, weapons and shadows do need to be part of the sprite frames, correct? Or are they externally applied in battle?
Also, I'll think of another tech to replace "Slurp" if this goes through. I secretly detested Frog's slurp attacks since I first saw him in Manoria Cathedral, so consider me motivated.
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Don't worry, I took the size in consideration and everything should definitely fit. Only two of the running frames don't, but that's because they were made before we know about the size constraint and I didn't get around to tweaking them yet.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/flamestealer/Glenn1.png)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/flamestealer/Glenn2-1.png)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/flamestealer/Glenn3.png)
I believe weapons are part of the frames since we can show them outside of battles. I think a shadow sprite is used by some techs, but not normal attacks. The shadows in this spritesheet (and Frog's) are integral part of the frames.
Concerning Slurp, a new tech animation could be nice, but if we're short on time we can also just use the animation from Marle's Cure tech as suggested by Justin earlier.
Justin, I have no clue what the problem is concerning the 410000 stuff (apparently Jsondag has none either)? Thanks for your help though. We definitely need all the help we can get.
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Ahaaa! So cropping to the sprite was actually a limiting factor. Okay, looks good. I'll have to leave Sorin with you '99, but I think I can do this after May 12 and have it finished by May 31. What's the frame count for Glenn?
Also, let's get a concensus as to where to put Human Glenn's frames by the time May 12 rolls around. That'll save us a lot of grief.
JP, will you have to comb through the ROM and off "ribbit" sounds when Glenn speaks?
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um...i'm pretty sure I used them sparingly incase this scenario did come to fruitation. But yea.....if you could use frog in your current playthrough and bug any instances, 99 also says he's going to do a playthrough.
Like I said before we need to do this in a fresh rom so I don't think we NEED a consensus on where it's going in the CE ROm.
hm....ok....i'm going to make a really really really quick program to help us do this. I was going to wait till after CE but this will save me lots of time. The main problem with Chickenlumps program is that it doesn't show a picture of what it's going to look like...awhile ago I started figuring out how to load tiles into a C# program but it was a pain in the ass and CE definitely took precedence. For now I'll just be lame and hardcode glenns graphics into a program and later make it more general.
Chrono'99 would it be possible to get a picture of what glenn's graphics look like in the rom eventually (like what you would see in tile molester).
FW can you send me a writeup of exactly what we need for sprite assemply (memory offsets, and what each byte means).
Tonight i'll try to whip something up and just use tiles with the letters of what they tile they correspond to in the rom.
--JP
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I'll get to work on Glenn later today.
The Bank fix uses space at 24F540, if that's not a problem.
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I'll use Frog on my current playthrough and list ribbit sounds in my bug thread.
I originally intended to just hand-code the frames, but that'd be awesome if you could make an advanced version of what Chickenlump created way back when.
We'll need to know the following, and I believe it's sufficiently documented (though it would be much better organized had I gotten around to a full sprite insertion tutorial):
*What this all looks like in Tile Molester. (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,5987.msg116853.html#msg116853) The amount of space used for the frames really depends on how efficient we want/need to be. Less efficient use of space makes for much easier visualization and frame coding, but more efficient use of space allows us to plunk Glenn's sprite frames into a tighter space within the ROM.
*Size 0 Sprite Assembly Format (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,5987.msg116912.html#msg116912)
*Just for kicks, Size 1 Sprite Assembly Format. (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,5987.msg116953.html#msg116953) Hardly necessary at the moment, but just to show you how the program would have to adapt if you wanted to include this feature.
*Palette info. Sprite palettes are wicked, but it's only one palette in question, so it's not absolutely necessary to implement this feature right now. I could work just fine with a non-paletted Glenn, probably. However, I could describe the palette format in whatever depth you need should you want to include it in a fully-featured sprite assembly program. Chickenlump's handled palettes correctly IIRC, but I'm not sure if his source code is hanging around anywhere.
*Sprite Animation Format (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,5987.msg146335.html#msg146335). Looks like '99's sheet is fully compatible with Frog's current animation data, so this is probably a non-issue for everything except Slurp Cut and Slurp Kiss, because Glenn will not possess the appropriate frames.
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justin, do you plan on doing Glenn's sprite assembly and insertion, or just the sprite sheet? If you wanted to do sprite assembly/insertion that's fine by me; I could go back to my original plan of handling Sorin, or we could tag team and I could finish off Glenn after May 12 if you're able to get the assembly work started before then.
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We could tag team it. I'll be doing the SA/Insertion for the most part. Probably get the basics down like shaking head, walking/running, battle stance.
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Sounds good. If you happen to get most or all of it done, I'll move straight into creating new techs.
Slurp Kiss is going to be a challenge since it'll be the first double tech to ever be edited I think. Since Ayla now has "Earth Song" instead of "Kiss," sounds like they might do some kind of duet.
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Chrono'99 would it be possible to get a picture of what glenn's graphics look like in the rom eventually (like what you would see in tile molester).
Yeah, as FaustWolf said it depends on what we do with reusable tiles.
Between Sorin and King Zeal, Sorin will probably the easiest to do since his animation pattern can be that of any NPC. Concerning King Zeal I'm not sure how we will handle his animations? If his animation pattern is perfectly compatible with that of the Lavos 2nd form's Arms there won't be any issue, but I'm not sure it is. If it's not, do we know how to make him do the appropriate animations in idle stance and when he casts a spell?
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Animation data editing is somewhat of a bitch. I had lots of troubles working with it and just gave up on it, but it is possible to get it all working appropriately.
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Sure '99, King Zeal's boss animations should be a piece of cake since justin and Vehek explored the format and it's documented in the thread I referenced above. It's just a matter of coding up some arbitrary frames, and then the animation is just a series of frame indices we choose. We should have full control over animations.
The question is, which sprite is King Zeal replacing? Oh, would it be the Masked Queen Zeal sprite(s)? Depending on his Sprite Size and the number of animations he has, we may need to move his data around. Again, for that, all pointers are in the Comprehensive Sprite Doc. (http://chronofan.com/Black/Other/Offsets/ChronoTriggerUnheaderedSpriteInfo.xls) I'll have enough free time to catch last minute sprite insertions and stuff on May 12, but if anything isn't clear in the Sprite Doc you guys can hit me up with questions anytime.
Haha, justin just ninja'd me on the animation difficulty. I think it shouldn't be too bad, but there will need to be some repointering to adjust for longer animation frame index lengths unless we get really lucky. After tech coding, I can't imagine anything being worse. :D
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if I make this program successfully I'll probably be able to do glenn myself. It's.....kind of ridiculous to do all of his animations by hand and I'm pretty sureyou'll lose motivation before then. If you want to get your hands dirty with SA I would work on getting King Zeal in since he has like..2 animations opposed to 255 :)
--JP
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But I love Sprite Assembly! That said, I've actually done only two frames for in-game insertion (the Ark), plus some experimental Slash frames. justin3009 has completed far more than that for his Time's Illusion project. Either way, I'm sure we won't complain if you can code this uber program up JP. :D
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I'm fine with either way. I know for a fact I'd lose inspiration really quickly if I kept doing it by 1 at a time X_x..
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Do you guys need Human Glenn overworld sprites?
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,7134.msg155007.html#msg155007
I'm sure Alcyone wouldn't have a problem whipping the remainder up for Glenn and lending them to CE provided she gets a graphics credit.
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He only needs one more (OW frame): the second part of the idle animation.
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Yeah Justin made OW frames back then. I think Jsondag has backups for the deleted attachments.
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Ahh, that's why I didn't see them. Very good.
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Dear FW,
You can thank me later :)
I give you Sprite Assembly Editor V 0.8.
Here's the rundown:
All "external" files are stored in a folder called deploy in the executable directory. All the sprite assembly info is loaded from a file called SpriteAssemblyInfo.txt. Here's an example one:
#NPCPrettyName,AssemblyPointerAddress (NOT YET IMPLEMENTED),DataStart,DataLength,pathtospritesheet
Crono,242300,1C27B0,26C0,deploy\cronospritesheet.png
Frog,24230C,1C7490,2648,deploy\cronospritesheet.png
Most of that came straight from FW's awesome excel sheet. You can also optionally have a file called SpriteAnimations.txt which gives human readable names to animations like "facing down".
OK, now that you have that set up let's take it for a spin:
1) Start executable
2) Load Rom
3) Select NPC. This list is from SpriteAssemblyInfo.txt
4) The Tilesheet should appear...note this needs to be in a pretty specific form in this version. It needs to be 0xF tiles across and each tiles has to be 32 by 32 pixels.
5) You can now make a "selected" tile by clicking on the tilesheet.
a) Note that now is when you want to select mirror and whatever the hell section is.
6) OK, time to place the tile first select the "super tiile" which is what i called the group of 4 subtiles. You can iterate through by pressing the next/prev buttons (or ctrl + shift + left/right)
7) Once you got the super tile selected you can place the tile with the corresponding buttons (or keyboard shortcuts).
8) Finally you can move the super tile wherever you want with the buttons (or ctrl + UP/Down/Left/Right).
9) finally, save your work.
It took me about .....20 seconds to make crono a hairy monster. That being said do NOT use this on a rom that you care about.....i seriously just finished working on it and am too tired to test.
Tomorrow i'll try to implement zoom...right now I made the preview real size because i was getting some overlapping bugs when I tried to make the tiles bigger.
--JP
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The editor doesn't work for me at all. You can load it up, but try to open a rom and it freaks out and crashes.
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I just checked it on another machine and it worked fine......
make sure you keep the deploy folder in the same folder as the executable..
Also.....when you load the ROM? That code is very simple it's much more likely to crash when you select an NPC or frame?
--JP
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Right when I load the rom it says something about an Exception error. And the deploy folder is definitely in the same folder as the executable.
Erg...It works when I select the frames and stuff but when you load the rom it'll error then continue strangely.
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I get this when I load the ROM:
************** Exception Text **************
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
at System.Drawing.Bitmap..ctor(Image original)
at CTSpriteAssemblyEditor.Form1.cropImage(Image img, Rectangle cropArea) in C:\Users\jpsondag\Documents\CodingProjects\CTSpriteAssemblyEditor\CTSpriteAssemblyEditor\Form1.cs:line 640
at CTSpriteAssemblyEditor.Form1.NewTileSelected(Object sender, MouseEventArgs e) in C:\Users\jpsondag\Documents\CodingProjects\CTSpriteAssemblyEditor\CTSpriteAssemblyEditor\Form1.cs:line 623
at CTSpriteAssemblyEditor.Form1.NewTileSelectedUp(Object sender, MouseEventArgs e) in C:\Users\jpsondag\Documents\CodingProjects\CTSpriteAssemblyEditor\CTSpriteAssemblyEditor\Form1.cs:line 630
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)
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JP, I *think* I've got it working and I'm literally salivating to try this. I take it (from the fact that you whipped this awesome thing up in ~24 hours) that it's not fully functional yet? Seems to be displaying Crono's graphics even when I select Frog from the sprite menu. Ooh, and you got palettes to load too! At least for Crono so far.
justin, this is a long shot, but did you manually select the files when you extracted from the ZIP or did you do a straight extract without selecting anything? Sometimes that screws with the folder structure. Also, I'm loading my test ROM from the Debug folder and it isn't giving me any error messages like the one '99 posted.
Is it possible the user needs a specific version of a related Windows program?
Also, just to be sure, justin and '99, you are loading unheadered ROMs, right?
EDIT: Provided others can get it working, this is the wave of the future for graphics insertion! I love the simple point-and-click interface.
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In SpriteAssemblyInfo.txt when you specify the sprite sheet for each character ( I currently have crono for both of them because I didn't have a frog sheet handy) but you can load up a new sprite sheet w/o me releasing a new version of the program. THe downside of this is it's not loading from the ROM obviously.
Hm......chrono'99 and Justin maybe I do load the sprite sheet when I load the rom (from the 99's stack trace I might be).
If you are going to use all the defaults you have to have this directory structure because the defaults assume a deploy folder is in the executables directory
SpriteAssembly.exe
DeployFolder
SpriteAssemblyInfo.txt
AnimationNames.txt (i this name might be wrong)
cronospritesheet.png (this is referenced in SPriteAssemblyInfo.txt)
You can move cronospritesheet.png somewhere else but you'll have to change SpriteAssemblyInfo.txt. This is most definitely not the final version so I'll make it more user friendly later.
EDIT:
Incase it's not clear from above this is not loading the spritesheet from the rom it's loading it from a file on your computer. I tried awhile back to load it from the rom and made some progress but it's definitely not a "we need a program now to do glenn" scenario. Also, if you can run TF and the tech editor you have the programs you need to run this program (just need .Net).
--JP
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Yea, I got it working now but I still get the exception error when loading the rom. Not a big deal.
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Yea, I got it working now but I still get the exception error when loading the rom. Not a big deal.
Same here. I had to put the ROM in the Debug folder.
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hm....you still regularly get the exception. If you find a way to make it not appear and you know what you changed please let me know.
Man c# is awesome ( it catches the exception for you haha .....amazing). I'll try out some more test cases tonight, like I mentioned above I didn't really have time to do hardcore testing I just used the defaults. I definitely was loading the rom from a "scratch" folder I have though so that's kind of strange.
Anyways if someone can rip all the sprites in the same form as the cronospritesheet.png (15 tiles accross each tile 32 pixels) I'll add that in tonight and I'll try to make the animations drop down be a little more friendly. It can atleast have animations that everryone shares (for example 03-battlestance......1A-laugh).
--JP
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Here's all the sprite sheets.
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oo very cool. You should be able to test it out on your end by combining the data in FW's excel sheet and just pointing it to these sheets. Are they 32 pixels per tile (if not it's no big deal I'll resize them tonight).
THis is exciting!
--JP
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So, not counting the frames where Frog sticks out his tongue, there are 220 sprite frames in total. I finished 3 more frames (at the right of his dead frames), and to make assembling easier I highlighted the frames that don't fit in a simple square pixel box (but do fit in Size 0 regardless).
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cool,
It honestly shouldn't take that long to do once we get the scrambled up tilemolester stile sprite sheet......hopefully :)
--JP
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OK, I'd call this version 1.0 I guess.
A few things:
* I think the exception bug might be fixed..the only way I was able to repro it though was if I clicked in the tilebox before a rom was loaded the loaded the rom.
* The stupid "Section" nibble screws things up. I guess it allows you to load a tile that isn't in your sprite sheet? For now I just color a tile with a "section" greater than one some solid color. There's a surprising amount of these, though sometimes it's just cause that frame is garbage but not always. For example..almost all of Robo is in a different section. Note that you can still edit the tile with a section in the editor you just can't have the live preview of it. One work around for this could be to load a HUGE tilesheet with all of the PC's but honestly that'd be kind of a pain and we don't really need it for Glenn.
* There's now zoom either from the menu or keyboard shortcut ctrl +/-.
* I put in all the PC's thanks to Justin.
* One unfortunate side effect with this is these sprites sheets started off small. So when I "zoom" in on them I'm using a pretty lazy algorithm and some pixels can shift. So...for example if you select the upper left tile of crono it should really be blank but it looks like the hair inthe tile to the left of him is shifting over. Of course you can make your own nicer sprite sheets and point to them in your SpriteAssemblyInfo.txt file.
*Chrono'99 if you have a spritesheet for Glenn with the way we are going to put it in the ROM I can start on them..it's a pretty boring job so I'd like to just do a couple a day..
* I really need to get a kick ass icon for my editors :)
Enjoy
--JP
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Oh, the "Section" nybble allows you to go vertically further down in the spritesheet than row 0xFF. So if the nybble is set to 0x0, you can go down to row 0x0FF. If it's 0x1, you can go down to row 0x1FF. If it's 0x2, you can go all the way down to row 0x2FF. Etc. It's sort of a "spritesheet range" modifier to my understanding. Not sure if that info helps any.
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Yea i'm aware of what it does, it's just with the way this editor is set up I only have access to the current sprite sheet for the "live preview". Later on when I have more time I'll try to make it load from the ROM and then the section will be a piece of cake. For our purposes it hopefully shouldn't matter since I'm assuming Glenn will all be from his own sprite sheet.
Even if it's not (like I said above) we can still use the GUI for editing, just not for a cool live preview.
--JP
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Here's how the spritesheet will look like in the ROM. It's obviously incomplete but still usable for whoever wants to start the sprite assembly:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/flamestealer/CE/Glenn-test2.png)
I'm also making a sheet with colored backgrounds to make it easier to see the different frames (though you also have to compare with the "un-cut" spritesheet to make out some difficult parts, especially the hilt of the sword):
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/flamestealer/CE/Glenn-test2-explanation.png)
There are about ten redundant tiles I think, but I'm afraid that removing all of them would make the sheet unreadable to everyone except me.
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Awesome, I do think that eventually we should remove the redundant tiles but keep everything documented. I'd like for the "official" glenn thread to be as efficient as possible.
This is definitely enough for me to try my hand at throwing this in a fresh rom and seeing what comes out at the other end.
So here's an outline of what I think should happen:
1) Apply 8th character fix. Where is the 8th character fix patch, and wher eis a post describing in detail exactly what it does (i want to know what bytes it changes and why)
2) Once I know number one I want to know how to edit the bytes that change where it's pointing too so I can repoint it to wherever I want
3) We need to pick a spot to put the graphics, and put them there in a FRESH ROM
4) TF has the new "Custom Data" window where we can tell TF not to overwrite the data at certain spots. Everyone who ever touches the rom will need to make sure they mark this data to not be used.
5) we'll do editing stuff to get everything working i nthe fresh rom
6) We'll double check that the space still hasn't been written to by TF (I trust TF and all but I haven't used this feature enough to blindly accept that it worked) and apply the patch to the CE rom.
--JP
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Also posting an updated version of the "un-cut" spritesheet (I corrected the running north frames to make them fit in Size 0).
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1) Apply 8th character fix. Where is the 8th character fix patch, and wher eis a post describing in detail exactly what it does (i want to know what bytes it changes and why)
It was an attachment in this thread (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,4461.0.html). (It was one of the deleted attachments.)
It changes part of the character graphics routines. The patch I made puts a JMP command at 00E695 and some code at 24F540-24F5D3.
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Vehek: So was that code in unused space? and did the jmp command replace another command...maybe a return? So instead of returning it runs your code then returns?
Chrono'99: Is that sprite sheet starting from the first row? It seems like it's starting half way through a sprite and some of the "common" first sprites are missing (facing up for example)? If we can start from what will be (when all is said and done) the beginning of the final sprite sheet then we won't have to throw away any work we do. Also it seems to be common to putt an "empty" tile in the very first slot (it's useful too) Anyways i didn't expect the work today to be finalized work this was more to give the sprite assembly a whirl in a common usage task.
OK FW you're mind is about to be blown :) A few things.....first off I was an idiot I didn't realize exactly what "section" was it had nothing to do with FW's explanation it was just me being an idiot :-/ section is now implemented correctly and thus about 95% more sprites are editable now :)
Second I tested out adding Glenn frames and added some new features to make real world use less of a pain. Here they are!
Add Super Tile Command: This command assumes that the currently selected tile is at the "upper left" of the super tile and adds all 4 sub tiles. CTRL + space = keyboard short cut
Set Shift: Incase you don't want to manually move each tile one pixel at a time you can input the coordinates you want them at (in decimal) and move the tile there instantly.
Point and click: Clicking on a subtile sets it to the currently selected tile
Grab: Right clicking a subtile sets the selected tile to the same subtile you right clicked.
It took me about um..4 minutes to make glenn's 6 walking forward animations. Best way is definitely going to be to love the keyboard shortcuts. The whole process for the walking tiles was:
ctrl+ up/down/left/right super tile to right place
click top of super tile i want
ctrl Space (sets the super tile
ctrl + shift + left/right to next super tile.
--JP
albeit the walking animations are in the rom in a nice organized way but you get the point.
--JP
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Fantastic! You're probably created better game editing tools than what Square had back in 1995. I can't wait to make use of this.
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I put the frames in the same order that Frog's frames appear in the CT Character Library ROM, which I assume is the same order as his frames appear in the CT ROM. I thought it would be easier this way, because if we make Glenn's frames correspond to that of Frog's, we won't have to change any sprite animation at all (except the "slurp" ones) as they would already point to the right frames. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
Concerning the redundant tiles, if you want to remove them, should we do it from the start to avoid basically doing this sprite-assembly work twice? I have no problem with removing all of them, but sprite-assembling will be more difficult because you'll have to open all these sheets in something like Photoshop and zoom in them for almost every frame to compare the tiles and look for the right tile to put at which slot and at which pixel coordinates (something which is also necessary with the current sheet, but to a lesser extent).
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I still think we should remove the redundant tiles. I'm willing to zoom in if were going to do this I want it to be perfect. If you're keeping track and can provide hints it'd be awesome (like I dont need to know the exact XY position of the tile but even just saying "the left half of his body is redundant) I would save time looking for it. I'm pretty sure when this is all said and done I'm going to know the sprite sheet like the back of my hand anyways :).
As for the sprite sheet I think maybe I just got thrown off by the lack of a "facing up" (frame 0) or "facing right" sprite. Also like I said it's really useful to have a blank tile in the upper left to reference. Here's Frogs sheet that Justin sent me. JUst so you know with the animation checked (character library rom? ) when you first load the character they aren't in frame 0, you have to go to frame 1 and then go BACK to frame 0 (so press R then L on the save point). It threw me off :-/ and maybe you just missed facing right in the sheet?
So anyways summary:
1) Need those two missing frame
2) Would be nice to have a blank tile in the upper left (this is definitely worth removing the 1st redundant tile)
3) Love the idea of doing it in the order of the animation checker (character library). I have 2 zsneses with a fresh rom and edited rom open for that.
When I get the updated sprite sheet, I'll insert all of glenns standing walking running animations....that oughta give us a huge boost in motivation :). By the way I'm working on the assumption that fixing the palette is as simple as it s for NPC's in tile molester:
Load Glenn in a zsnes game
Make a save state
load the rom in tile molester
browse to that location in the rom
load the save state in tile molester
Press arrows until it looks right.
Will that work or is there different steps for playable characters? If so can someone give me a step by step?
--JP
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Alright, I'll remove the redundant tiles.
I used the CT Character Library (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrono_Trigger#Related_media) to check the frame order but I hadn't noticed the frame 0 either. Frame 50 (or maybe it's 4F or 51 or something) is actually a repeat of that "facing up" pose so I thought it was just far down the list. Apparently there are simply two totally similar "facing up" poses (we should probably keep them both to preserve animations).
The "facing right" frames are not missing; they're just mirrored versions of the "facing left" frames.
For palette hacking I look for the right addresses with FaustWolf's CT Sprite Insertion guide and I change the colors one by one with SnesPAL and screenshots to compare with the spritesheet. Frog's palette is at 130000 according to the guide. I didn't know TileMolester could actually write palettes into the ROM.
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The "facing right" frames are not missing; they're just mirrored versions of the "facing left" frames.
*slaps self in forehead*
Yea we'll definitely have two "facing up" animations if that's what frog has
I didn't know TileMolester could actually write palettes into the ROM.
Hrm......maybe i'm making that up haha... I feel like I didn't do it by hand for like the dragon tooth....or agitator........maybe I just used the existing palette
*gets exited for having standing/walking/running glenn
--JP
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Question on the sprite sheet. Is Glenn using the wrong hand for his sword?
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Here's a partial frame list I was working on a while ago, and a list of which frames each animation uses.
I listed frame $50 as "Thinking, facing up". Probably correct, as his animation data for thinking uses that frame.
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Here's the graphics for the idle/walking/running frames. In Glenn-88percent-3.png, the frames concerned are correctly aligned on a grid (use the grid feature in Photoshop or the program you're using). I noted which frames are used for running because they share some frames with the walking animation. Also note that the tile with just one black dot near the top left corner is very useful.
Question on the sprite sheet. Is Glenn using the wrong hand for his sword?
Yeah, there has always been inconstencies in Frog's dominant hand. Most artworks + the PSX FMVs depict him as right-handed, but one artwork + his actual spriteset depict him as left-handed. However, the human Glenn spriteset has his sword sheath pointing to the right shoulder, so I made him right-handed. If he were left-handed his sheath would have pointed to the left shoulder. But who knows, maybe he's just ambidextrous...
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ok if were not going to put a blank tile in the upper left corner you need to tell me where it is....every single frame is going to have blank tiles so it really is super useful to just make it 0/0, that being said it can be anywhere just let me know which one it's going to be.
--JP
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There is a blank tile in that corner. As I said, you will have to zoom in and out a lot.
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Didn't you say above that it has a black dot?
Also note that the tile with just one black dot near the top left corner is very useful.
I thought maybe it was suppose to be some sort of shador of something...
--JP
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The tile with the black dot is 3 tiles down from the top left corner. I just noted that it's useful because several frames make use of it (the sword hilt above it too).
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ahhh i see thanks for pointing that out (totally would have missed it). You'll definitely have to give it a run through once i finish to make sure I caught everything.
--JP
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this patch puts in a walking glenn I know i said I running but things came up....few things:
a) I suck at pallettes I guess.....I don't know how to make it make the color I want the "invisible color" and I assume that's the reason a bunch of glenn shows up as a ghost..:-/
b) I made a few updates to the editor, i'll post it tonight when I can test it more
c) the patch is editing a part of the rom I didn't expect it to..tomorrow I'll cut out this section from lunar IPS
1C7468 274 No 00001AFF-00001D77 279
Glenn starts at 1C7490 so I dont know what's up with that. When all is said and done we'll have to double check that we only edited stuff that we mean too. LIke i mentioned above 99, eventually you'll need to just step through each frame (like you wouldn't have anyways :) ) to make sure everything is what you expected.
If someone could fix the pallette that'd make me a very happy man :)
--JP
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Sprite palettes are notoriously difficult. It's probably not a fault of your palette hacking, but rather the graphic that was inserted into the ROM; each pixel has to "point" to the correct color on a 12-out-of-16 color palette. At least that's how it works for a .BMP insert. I think justin and Vehek typically use .PNGs, and furthermore, they may have a way of working with palettes right in Tile Molester.
Don't worry a bit about getting the palette correct right now, unless it's really driving you up the wall visually. As long as the source image is 12 colors (minus the weapon, which has to be nulled out color-wise IIRC), it's just a matter of reordering the palette even if the image is chopped up into little bits. We could always do a re-insert of the chopped-up source image at any point after working with the source image's palette in an image editing program.
I could work with the palette late tomorrow night/early Wednesday morning (depending on one's time zone of course), if you like.
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PNG is the best way to go IMO. Palettes were somewhat of a bitch to work with as well in my case. Best bet is to import Glenn into the game without a palette change, screenshot it and open it up with PSP. Then get a pic of the correct palette and compare what colors should be changed. Open the rom in SNESPAL and locate the palette. Change what color corresponds to the correct color. It's rather quick and easy to do it that way.
If you don't know what I'm saying, here's an example.
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2qv6tqo.png) - Apparently the little cursor got cut off, but it's pointing to his skin palette.
Edit 2: Jsondag, I see what you did wrong. Here's what to do:
Steps
==============
1) Open Tile Molester
2) Open the Rom
3) Set the palette (via SNESPAL. IF not, then load up Frog's palette) To Do so, get a savestate of him being able to be seen. Then when in Tile Molester, click Palette --> Import From --> Another File. Load the savestate and press the BIG BLUE ARROWS on the bottom of the screen and scroll until it gets the palette you want
4) Import Glenn's sprites into the TM and save etc etc.
Let me fix the palette for you Json.
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Aha, so that's how you've done it all along. That way you can cut out the palette-guesswork step. Neato!
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yea i know it's not a big deal I just want to see the fruits of my labors :) If you get the pallette working you can just tell me what RGB values you used and I can insert them at any point or you can just you know do a checkout, put in the pallettes, check in.
Anyways my friend i was going to hang out with got held up at work (i took a half day today cause it's my BDay ) for a little bit there so I had some extra time and inserted the running animations The running is actually a little choppy..i have to run but maybe I inserted the wrong animations (2/4 of the runs are from the walking).
All these frams are most definitely going to need a second, third and 4th pair of eyes going over them. But as you can see I can insert these things super duper fast.
--JP
Just saw Justins post: I'll take another whack tomorrow unless FW beats me to it. I am using a png file though (what 99 posted above).
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Palette's fixed.
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Justin exactly what did you change in the latest patch? My patch is 8 KB and yours is 50?
--JP
EDIT: I also applied the patch and none of the changes I made seem to be in it....it's still frog running around but now his pallette is wrong. I also tried copying over the palette in your patch to my old one (24005E -> 240074) and had no luck....
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OK here's an updated sprite assembly program and palette fix for glenn. He looks pretty cool :)
Program New Features:
* Added "Mirror" button to mirror all 4 super tiles (incredibly useful haha)
* Made the Working Buffer box editable so you can just copy paste your raw hex code in ( you can really screw things up with that so be careful)
* Added more large shift shortcuts you can now shift left/right/down and up a super tile at a time (really useful when combined with mirror)
* Made the "set shift" boxes hexadecimal instead of decimal.
For the palette fix i had to change chrono'99's "background" to black (RGB = 0,0,0). I did this because that's what frogs original "transparent" color was. I dont know if were allowed to change this transperant color (is it shared with other sprites) or if this is going to cause problems later on but it did fix the issue in my patch.
Right now glenn has this ugly i tanned to much orange color...but I can't find this color in snespal, (it does show up in tilemolester though) if we can change that to his normal skin color I think were good to go? Does anyone know where it would be? it's the very last color in tilemolester but tilemolester shows 16 colors. In FW guide it looks like we don't have enough room for that many colors....
04 242A08 240060 24005E < -- beginning
05 242A0A 240078 240076 < -- end?
--JP
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The 8th character Fix is in there, Frog has a separate thing of graphics starting at 410000 which is where it's loading but still keeps the old frog tiles in his area. The palette is still wrong because you have to get a savestate of Frog and get his palette. Then reimport Glenn's Tiles into TM.
Edit: I found an old patch of Vargose's thing that has the walking tiles of Human Glenn done. Should I post that up?
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aw geez the problem was 100% me not importing the palette THEN the sprite sheet. Everything went absolutely splendidly once I did things in the correct order.
Thanks for the help Justin!
Well guys we are officially caught up glenn wise where we were like..3 years ago when Vargose was here :)
--JP
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Well, happy birthday Jsondag!
To be frank, almost all these frames are incorrect, but yeah that will still save us some time in the end (I hope so anyway).
Justin, yeah please post that patch. We should compare this running animation with that of Vargose in case I pointed at the wrong frames in the captioned spritesheet image or something. Also do you still have the Glenn Overworld spritesheet?
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Here's the OW sheet, and a patch I made for the palette.
In the Glenn OW patch I once posted, I didn't change the second idle animation, which might be part of why the graphics packet didn't compress as well as the original back then. Maybe when the graphics are inserted this time, they'll fit into the original packet.
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Well, happy birthday Jsondag!
To be frank, almost all these frames are incorrect, but yeah that will still save us some time in the end (I hope so anyway).
Justin, yeah please post that patch. We should compare this running animation with that of Vargose in case I pointed at the wrong frames in the captioned spritesheet image or something. Also do you still have the Glenn Overworld spritesheet?
Thanks :)
I'm not 90% sure that this will save time in the future, i'm 100% sure it'll save us time in the future :) We'll just have to make multiple passes through it. Once we get the full spritesheet we can have different people work on different frames and it shouldn't be that hard to merge the work together. 99 will probably have to be the one who makes the final overall passthrough since he'll be the one to catch stuff like tile 0x 3y haha.
--JP
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Alrighty. Here's the patch for now. I think I was working on the side walk and never finished, but here's what's done so far!
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Thanks. I'm still on Chapter 14 polishing, but we'll check that.
For now here's an update for the sprite assembly with the "draws weapon", "sad", "shakes head", "crouched", and "dead" frames. In the third pic I just tweaked the positioning of the frames for better alignment.
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I checked Vargose's patch awhile ago (I got all the deleted attachments) and he didn't have any of the running animations or anything in there :( Maybe justin's is farther along.
I feel like the reason the running animation looks weird is the arm coming out in the 4th animaiton. The other arm coming out doesn't as far. The thing is it looks fine in the animation checker. I'm beginning to wonder if Frogs runation checker room so you'll need an SRM handy to take Glenn for a stroll around leene square. We'll have to eventually just copy over the palette and Sprite assembly to a clean rom.
--JP
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Ignore the running animation for it being 4 frames. We know how to extend animations so we can have it 6 like the other PC's.
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So satisfying to get in a fight and see Glenn draw his sword.
--JP
EDIT: Wow i just read my broken english up there.......a sentence definitley got caught up. What I was saying is I think Frog's "running" animation might give more time to the 4th frame than the 1st/second/third or something. Because when you run around as glenn you see flash--Arm sticking out--------------------flash---Arm sticking out------------------flash etc. The arm sticking out definitely seems to leave an impression (atleast for me). Anyways as justin pointed out this might be fixable, I didn't even realize frog has less running animations.
--JP
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Yea, it should be fixable.
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More Glenn tiles + updated spritesheet
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swwwwwweeeeeeeeettttt
--JP
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Hey 99 I'd you are still up can you give me a cheat sheet for the 3 part jumping animations (frames 6c through 77) I'm not sure which animations in the sheet I should be using for example should his sword be out or not. Right now I'm guessing its suppose to be the kneeling with sword out for frame 1 the standing frames that are kind of in the middle above walking frames for frame 2 and the jumping without the sword out that are directly below those for frame 3.
By the way I can't find a way to make kneeling down with the sword out fit in the 4 super tiles so I'd you can graph that as well thatd be awesome.
Thanks!
Jp
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OK, here's what I managed to get done on the plane. 99 is definitely going to have to do a quick run through of these but it shouldn't be to hard (though you may want to do it while it's fresh in your mind). I had the hardest time finding the correct feet for the spell casting....I also saw one less spell animation frame than what is on the 90% done sheet so maybe it's coming later.
As mentioned above I skipped the "3 frame jump" because I wasn't exactly sure what I should be referencing.
Also were at the end of what we can fit in Frogs sprite sheet so it's time to repoint the graphics. I can try to do it myself but I didn't have th e8th character fix patch (i believe it was deleted in the great clensing) so can someone post it?
--JP
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I believe one of the patches I posted had Glenn's graphics around 410000 or so. So if the roms expanded at all and you used the patch, look somewhere around there. His graphics SHOULD be there.
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Jsondag wants the graphics elsewhere. (Besides, that bank is filled up already in CE.)
Here's the "sprite code hack" I made a long while ago. (I'd like to redo it though if I can find the time.)
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Ah, alrighty. Thanks for telling that.
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Hey Vehek, I applied your patch to The glenn patch and got the expected 4 byte change at 00E695, then there was a bunch of code at 24F540. I went through each byte in 24F540 and replaced the 41's with 48's in a hex editor. So since there's literally nothing in bank 48 i expected glenn to just dissapear (each tile be 0) but he's still hanging around being his usual annoying self......
Any idea what I'm doing wrong? Once he's blank i'm going to move the tile sheet to bank 48.
--JP
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From what you just said in your post, I'm guessing you haven't changed the graphics pointer yet, right?
My patch hacks the routines which check the graphics bank value, so it won't do anything different if the graphic bank isn't the value checked by my code.
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ah....I see, so FW's guide had Frog's graphic pointer being 24200C which when I load that from in a hex editor I'm getting 00 00 D3 I know that eventually it's suppose to be 130000 What sort of translation is going on? (what do I have to put at 24200C to get it to load from bank 41, 410000 to be exact)?
--JP
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(hangs head). Do we know why it was D3 before??
--JP
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I deleted my post, but the addresses for the unexpanded space start at C0:0000 for the ROM address 000000, which is why Frog's graphic bank is $D3.
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So before when it was bank 13 we had C0 + 13 = D3
I need 48....so C0 + 48 =.... 108 :(
Should I just put 09 in there? (goes to try it out)
--JP
EDIT: horrible.....just horrible math
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Sigh.
I said the expanded space was just the hex address when my post still existed. So 48.
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Loading successfully from bank 48. This patch is currently CE compatible but it should be a breeze to move it if our hand is forced.
Vehek, sorry i thought that you deleted your post because the information in it was incorrect or something.
99, it may be worth you taking this patch for a spin. I dont know if I did climbing wrong or not but the sword moving from left to right turned out really unnatural in the game (it just moves way to fast).
--JP
EDIT: IN case you guys dont know starting a new game it takes you to the animation checker.
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The walking front is kind of off as well. The sword has an extra chunk on the side and he walks really oddly. Same thing with the side and front. I'm guessing we're getting just the outline right now for the character?
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Yup, just the rough outlines. Most frames are off because the tiles are not on the right coordinates.
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I'm off to sleep now but here's a 95% complete Glenn spritesheet. I finished his critical hit frames! Tomorrow I'll post the updated graphics pack.
In other news, I also finished polishing Chapter 14, but I'll wait for the next patch before importing the Flux files because there are some things I have to do by hand (scroll masks, exits, etc.). Take your time though of course.
This is exciting. Now in addition to the playthrough I can focus on these graphics... It will definitely be faster to do than with the coding.
Also, that new smiley with the cowboy hat is disturbing to look at. I have no idea who it is.
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Can't wait to try out the new chapter 14!
When you get a chance if you put up some frames I'll work on getting the basic outline done. I also realized based off your comment above it will probably be useful to be able to move all the supertiles at once (incase things don't line up right now you have to move each super tile individually). so i'll get that added.
I think the head is kind of creepy and annoying as well......
--JP
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Update.
Don't mind the two tiles with a white background at the top-right side of this new section (in the Glenn-4-explanation.png). I added them for a tweaked "kneeling (up)" frame which was already assembled earlier (I'll fix that frame assembly later).
Also note that the four frames outlined in Glenn-95percent-2.png have some supertiles that overlap each other slightly instead of being aligned next to each other. It's a twisted trick to actually make them fit in Size 0.
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To say this is impressive would be a huge understatement '99. What's the current plan for "Slurp"? I expect to whip up a new tech for that and Slurp Kiss, but I'm not sure whether there are certain frames on the new sheet you intended to use for a possible replacement.
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There's no specific frame for it. We'll probably use the "casts spell" animation.