Chrono Compendium
Zenan Plains - Site Discussion => Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion => Topic started by: ZeaLitY on August 04, 2008, 02:19:35 am
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The Chrono Crisis forum is suckling the teat of 1UP over their latest Cross-bashing feature, and suddenly...inspiration hit me.
CHRONO TRIGGER 2: TIME FUCK
[Crono wakes up in his room as Leene's bell rings. OMG TOTALLY AWESOME RITE? THATS HOW IT HAPPENED IN CHRONO TITTY 1!!!]
CRONO: ...
[NERDGASM!! That's right HE'S A MUTE! WHOA NOSTALGIA FOR THE WIN]
[Enter MARLE, with boobs clearly out of her shirt. WHOA FANSERVICE! FUCK YEAH!]
MARLE: CRONO! I LOVE U!
[Holy BALLS! I wonder if they DID THE NASTY!]
[Enter LUCCA, with a gun. Yeah she used a gun in the original! FUCK YEAH BITCHASS!]
LUCCA: GUYS! I just used my Interdimensional Quasitronic Temporal Titripper™ to find out that LAVOS IS ALIVE!
[Whoa! Oh that Lucca, she's incorrigible with the science!]
MARLE: You used wat?
[That's right! Stupid Chrono Trigger fanboys can't handle too much plot or detail. They just want to cut stuff!! FUCK YEAH CRONO!!!]
[Enter LAVOS SPAWN to create a battle and cut off Lucca's tiresome speech.]
LAVOS SPAWN: I will kill u
[M. Night Shyamalan: It talks! WHAT A TWIST!!]
[Crono destroys the spawn.]
[Enter BELTHASAR.]
BELTHASAR: Guys! I just fixed the Epoch!
[A scene in which the original Chrono Trigger team cruises across time eating Doritos and making inside jokes about every NPC major and minor from the original game ensues, along with a visit to 1995 A.D.]
[1995 A.D. fields: several cute creatures romp around the Epoch.]
YUJI HORII: See guys? It's lighthearted! And watch this!
[YUJI HORII takes in a big breath and then effortlessly creates a temporal paradox. Enter Sakaguchi.]
HIRONOBU SAKAGUCHI: It wouldn't be Chrono Trigger without giant, glaring plot holes, right? Hey, I heard you guys like 3D!
[The world is rendered in three dimensions, with no less than forty-five lens flares beamed directly into the eyeballs of the audience.]
HIRONOBU SAKAGUCHI: What a REALISTIC PORTRAYAL!
[Enter LAVOS, erupting through the ground.]
LAVOS: I...am oblivion personified! Just like every supervillain at the end of Square games used to be in the 90s! I've also become a sort of demi-god philosopher who revels in suffering!
[OOH, LIKE KEFKA! NOSTALGIA POINTS +10]
[Enter MAGUS!]
MAGUS: I cut myself many times in the bathtub over you, Lavos. Now we will defeat you, with the aid of the Masamune, Rainbow Shell, Rainbow, Slasher, Bronze Bow, KarateGi, Sun Stone...
...Epoch, Zonker38, DoomScythe, Bullfrog, Sewer Access, Tomato. Oh wait, I meant Crono's Mom.
[OH GOD ITS ALL THE ITEMS FROM THE ORIGINAL GAMES! THE WRITERS MUST ADORE THEIR FANS!!]
[The party defeat Lavos. Enter Kazuhiko Aoi.]
AOI: HEY GUYS! Congrats! Here's some sake to celebrate! ERRR, I mean apple cider! Hehe, just like Toma, right kids?
[TOMA! FUCK YEAH CHRONO TRIGGER!]
[The End appears. Several fanboys threaten to sue Square Enix for not making it longer and canceling CT:R. The end.]
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Hmmm...a Chrono game w/access to the year CT was created...brilliant! That totally sounds like where Kato was headed anyways...although it also sounds very Till the End of Time, too...
Oh, and you forgot the part where it's in incredible lens flare-filled 3D. ;)
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Wait... Wait... no, this is wrong...
You forgot the MOST IMPORTANT PART OF ALL.
rewind a few lines
AOI: HEY GUYS! Congrats! Here's some sake to celebrate! ERRR, I mean apple cider! Hehe, just like Toma, right kids?
[gate opens]
Schala: lol hi guyz
OMFGWTFBBQTTYLMYBFFROSEA/S/L? IT'S SCHALA!!!! SCHA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LAAAAAA
Magus: I'm Janus.
Schala: OMFG LIEK WTF!!! I'M SCHALA!!! WHAT A COINCIDENCE!!! LET'S HUG EACH OTHER!!
Magus: and cry over it!!!
(Magus and Schala do just that, causing the background to explode into a shower of sparks for some reason, sorta like what they do in Power Rangers whenever the monster dies.)
(Magus wins the race after all)
(Magus learns the true meaning of Christmas)
(Magus's heart grows three times larger that day)
(The magic of love makes Magus's monster AIDS go away)
(Alfador comes home)
(the queen comes back, but is okay)
(Zeal reassembles or something)
(Everyone lives in a home and appears five nights a week in a new reality show, "Life with the Zeals". it sucks slightly less when Magus kills one of the Cameramen for filming Schala in the shower. He encourages filming the queen though, and later sells the videos.)
THE END.
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I would play this game.
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Haven't been to the Crisis forums for a while, so I don't really know what's going on here... Anyone care to illuminate the situation.
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I don't know for sure, but there's this topic:
http://z14.invisionfree.com/ChronoCrisis/index.php?showtopic=4361
1up put Chrono Cross as #2 on its list of disappointing video game sequels. And a lot of people at Crisis seem to agree.
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That top 5 list is 60% crap. Chrono Cross, Invisible war, and MGS2 were perfectly fine sequels.
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That's what happens when you let humans compile the lists.
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Sorry Zeality, but that game would fail. At the end of trigger, Leene's Bell was replaced with Nadia's Bell, remember? Everyone would be like "OMG continuity ruined! Me no buy this game!"
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Hah. You got me...
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I like how they get facts wrong in that article :( They say the Chrono Trigger cast is killed off shortly after the game begins. Lucca's implied to be dead sort of early on, but it's not shortly after the game begins, and you don't find out about Crono and Marle until near the end. And even then Frog and Ayla are still going to be dead from oldness at that point and it's not like Crono's never died before and I'm pretty sure he got better anyway.
Also, I always thought it was sort of implied that the outcome of CC was a timeline where Crono and co. WEREN'T dead.
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I burst into laughter at "I will kill u". It's like epic RICK humour and "emojanus: hold me sis" all over again. I love this.
This is perfectly possible TF stuff, guys...
Wait, what the crap? I know CC got a shitload of complaints, but MGS2 as well? Lemme guess, the people who couldn't be fucking bothered to read or comprehend the fantastic revelation at the end.
The problem I see is that obsessive, whiny fans who demand new entries in a series be more like their predecessor - the developers set out to try something new, with a fresh batch of characters, a new location and a new storyline. That's a damn good thing to think up something completely new - Hasn't Kato said that much? It's exactly why I can't stand people who complain that CC isn't enough like CT: it's a new Chrono game, not Chrono Trigger 2, Kato said as much. Is it just fanboyism nature that causes them to refuse to see anything in the game/s in a positive light, or is it just plain laziness? That's the impression I'm getting from CC haters. "ofuk where's my corno I was so used to him oshit an entire game this'll take too long can i have my rainbow yet"
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I love how whenever I say that Chrono Cross is a good game, somebody tries to be AN HERO and continuosly insult me, either without use of punctuation or eccessive use of the Shift/Caps Lock key.
I'm sure they would buy this game.
Edit: I cannot spell.
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Sorry TacT, where was that? A reaction on Crisis forums or just in general?
I love how whenever I say that Chrono Cross is a good game, somebody tries to be AN HERO and continuosly insult me, either without use of punctuation or eccessive use of the Shift/Caps Lock key.
I'm sure they would buy this game.
i fukn wud/
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FUCK 1UP! I'm canceling my subscription now!
Also: -1 respect for Chrono Crisis.
PS: I hate Chrono Cross, always have, never been a fan of it. It's thanks to this site that I'm not like those freaks.
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. . . was always more of a Game Informer guy myself . . .
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I love how whenever I say that Chrono Cross is a good game, somebody tries to be AN HERO and continuosly insult me, either without use of punctuation or eccessive use of the Shift/Caps Lock key.
I'm sure they would buy this game.
Sorry TacT, where was that? A reaction on Crisis forums or just in general?
Sounds more like a continual reaction on GameFAQs definitely.
EDIT: Jeeze, I didn't even realize until now that this was my...
<~*POST 5000*~>
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I love how whenever I say that Chrono Cross is a good game, somebody tries to be AN HERO and continuosly insult me, either without use of punctuation or eccessive use of the Shift/Caps Lock key.
I'm sure they would buy this game.
Sorry TacT, where was that? A reaction on Crisis forums or just in general?
Sounds more like a continual reaction on GameFAQs definitely.
Yeah, it pretty much goes without saying.
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Another point zeality makes, if he realized it or not.
Chrono Trigger was never set up to be a direct sequel. How could it be when all the characters moved on with their lives and returned to the appropriate timelines? It would be be downright silly pairing them all up again for another crazy adventure. If they did that, it would be a lot like how zeality said the sequel should have been like. It just doesn't work.
A sequel to cross? Yes, that could certainly happen and it not be totally lame. Though I would much prefer if SE ever gives FF a rest, that they would make another sequel like chrono cross. It may be a bit difficult, but with some creative writing it's possible.
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Chrono Trigger was never set up to be a direct sequel.
And yet we got two...>_>
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Chrono Trigger was never set up to be a direct sequel.
And yet we got two...>_>
He meant as in with Crono and co. The other two are continuations of the world.
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Yes, that's exactly what I meant. As for radical dreamers, isn't that totally disjointed from the others? Besides a reference from it in cross, doesn't it take place in a different dimension?
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Yes, that's exactly what I meant. As for radical dreamers, isn't that totally disjointed from the others? Besides a reference from it in cross, doesn't it take place in a different dimension?
It's implied it's Trigger's world, since Kid is trying to steal the Frozen Flame for Lucca, who wants to place it on Crono's grave. So, in RD, it's a continuation of a version of CT's story in which Crono wasn't revived.
...Then again, didn't Cross replace it as the game with 'more plot priority' or something?
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I don't really know a lot about radical dreamers. I will say that cross has some dialogue from radical dreamers (at least I think it's from the game) that suggests that the game took place in a different dimension.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP2bNRD5pHk
Look at 2:46
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Technically all of the games take place in a new timeline, though (CT=Entity's changes, RD=w/e, CC=Serge not dead). To me, it's the standard of the series, really...And RD has Magus in your "party"...I know that's not "Crono & Co.", but it's part of that bunch anyways, which is slightly more than you can say for CC, though Crono & Co. sort of cameo in CC...*shrugs*
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Well, I think RD was the canon 'continuation' to CT until Cross appeared and sort of retcon'd RD's events (by waving it off as a parallel universe and making it clear in-game). Probably simply because RD wasn't well-known at all at the time and Cross was immensely popular.
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Hilarious, and I'd buy it.
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This is perfectly possible TF stuff, guys...
But you wouldn't be able to pull off the stunning lens-flare 3D in the CT engine.
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2D lens flares would be extra awesome.
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0_o . . . agreed
I have to point out your one-word post or else I'd look like a hypocrite who didn't point it out just because the person agreed with me...:lol:
~V_Translanka
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You people say that Chrono Cross wasn't meant to be a direct sequel, just another game in the series, but it pulled that sort of thing off incredibly wrong.
Could you imagine playing Final Fantasy 7, and about half-way through you're told that the Figaro Kingdom had fallen and Terra comes out as a ghost to tell Cloud he sucks?
That's basically what Cross did.
[edit] Also, I see the rave reviews and high scores when the game first came out argument thrown around a lot. Being hyped to a ridiculous degree and not delivering the best thing ever is also what we would call "disappointing".
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That's basically what Cross did.
The difference being that cross and trigger take place in the same world, whereas FFVII and FFVI don't, so if FFVI characters appeared in FFVII, that'd just break the internal canon of the world :3
Why do people get bugged by this scene so much anyway? It's not even really clear WHAT those are or even if they actually are the original CT characters or just some sort of vague representation of them.
Anyway going from http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/GamePro_Interview.html : "Therefore, Chrono Cross is not a sequel to Chrono Trigger. Had it been, it would have been called "Chrono Trigger 2." Our main objective for Chrono Cross was to share a little bit of the Chrono Trigger worldview, while creating a completely different game..."
I think they're specifically refering to changing how the gameplay works in regards to system transtions there, but it applies to the story, too. Cross isn't a sequel to Trigger's storyline as a whole. It's a sequel to the Zeal stuff.
Being hyped to a ridiculous degree and not delivering the best thing ever is also what we would call "disappointing".
I don't remember the hype :(
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What happened to this thread? :| *sighs* It's pretty obvious that Cross wasn't a true sequel(rather an addendum), except in the sense that it was a game in conjunction with, and a posteriori of, the original game. That being said─a few things:
- CC takes place in the 1010-1020 AD+ period only(well, if one considers Belthasar's movements, I'll concede on that.);
- CC focuses on dimensional instance travel rather than time travel; and
- The original members of CT play a small, NPC-natured role(if even that) in CC.
Slightly Unrelated: They dropped the Nu! WTF?! :lol:
...but, it is still series canon nonetheless and was a good 'sequel'(being used very loosely).
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They dropped the Nu? I thought he was in Viper Manor, and he could rename your characters?
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One of the common themes in both games that's really interesting to me, and I think it's related really heavily to time travel and dimensional travel, too, is the relationship between mankind/societies in the game and their world. It's shown more directly in Cross, and in trigger, it's more of a way how history is presented in that game.
Even if Lavos literally hadn't destroyed the world, since Lavos created people, if mankind blew up the world with nukes and stuff, is it still Lavos' fault, I guess is what I'm saying?
How do you even come up with a direct sequel to a game with as many plot arcs as Trigger has, anyway? Everyone went off to different time periods, and CT never really went into what was going on in 1999 AD much, anyway, and that always seemed like a really fascinating setting for a game.
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They dropped the Nu? I thought he was in Viper Manor, and he could rename your characters?
Alas, that was a beach bum.
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I don't understand the "true sequel" stuff...I mean, if you were disappointed, that's fine, I can even understand that to some degree, but to write it off as an actual sequel? That's ridiculous. It continues the story and even goes so far as to include major characters from the first. I don't think it's justifiable not to call it a sequel just because they aren't the main characters of this story.
They dropped the Nu? I thought he was in Viper Manor, and he could rename your characters?
Alas, that was a beach bum.
I think it's just the Beach Bum model, but that it is indeed a Nu. Not a lot looks the same w/o Toriyama.
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I have to agree with V, I have never heard Kotor 2 called an side story or its not a true sequel. Kotor 2 is exactly to Kotor as CC is to CT.
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I don't understand the "true sequel" stuff...I mean, if you were disappointed, that's fine, I can even understand that to some degree, but to write it off as an actual sequel? That's ridiculous. It continues the story and even goes so far as to include major characters from the first. I don't think it's justifiable not to call it a sequel just because they aren't the main characters of this story.
V, you miss the point entirely; I'm calling CC a 'sequel'(as in canonical), but not a 'true sequel' by complete definition(e.g. a true sequel would follow the original protagonist─or at least have as a PC role ala Golden Sun 2─on a continuing or new adventure). And I never said I was dissapointed─I quite enjoyed it as a Chrono series masterpiece. As for continuing the storyline, that's not an issue─I said it was an addendum(which, by definition, coincidentally adds to something :P) as it didn't retain PC status with, or intertwine with the actions of, the original cast(save the fact that Serge's existence caused the dimension to be split into two and happy future to be anulled in one of the dimensions).
On a related note: Why does everyone have to assume that by "true sequel" it is referring to the quality or absolute status? Let alone the fact, that whenever "sequel" is brought up in a CC discussion, it is like blood to sharks.
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Because by putting the word "True" in front of it like that, you're making it sound as if it's somehow less than the original in some way.
It's the same thing as the Star Wars movies. The first three may have sucked, but IV-VI are still sequels to I-III even though the main characters change.
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Because by putting the word "True" in front of it like that, you're making it sound as if it's somehow less than the original in some way.
I assure you, I meant it by definition only.
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I don't understand the "true sequel" stuff...I mean, if you were disappointed, that's fine, I can even understand that to some degree, but to write it off as an actual sequel? That's ridiculous. It continues the story and even goes so far as to include major characters from the first. I don't think it's justifiable not to call it a sequel just because they aren't the main characters of this story.
Maybe. Allow me to offer an analogy (because I love analogies).
Orson Scott Card wrote a fairly famous Science Fiction book called Ender's Game. He eventually turned that into a quartet. Then he eventually went back and wrote a new book based on the events in Ender's Game, but focused on a different character (called Bean). Thus we have Ender's Shadow. He took that book and made it into its own series.
So, if you followed that convoluted history, now we have a book called Shadow of the Hegemon. It is the sequel to Ender's Shadow, but by your criteria it is also a sequel to Ender's Game. "It continues the story and even goes to far as to include major characters from the first." On one hand it continues the story, but on another hand it is part of a totally different series. It is sort of like those tricksy Photons; it is a particle and a wave at the same time! (or in this case, a sequel and not at the same time). The waveform of sequality only collapses when we observe it.
That seems to be what Kato did; Chrono Cross is a sequel to Chrono Trigger in one sense, but it is also a parallel story that can-but-doesn't fit into a single "series."
To offer another comparison; The Two Towers involves some of the same characters from The Hobbit, it expands the story, etc, but it isn't really a sequel in the classic sense of the word.
It's the same thing as the Star Wars movies. The first three may have sucked, but IV-VI are still sequels to I-III even though the main characters change.
I-III are prequels to IV-VI, but it seems very odd to say that the sequel to Revenge of the Jedi was created a few decades earlier.
But I would like to point out, Star Wars has always been a story of two droids. That stayed the same throughout all six movies (I can't remember enough about the Ewok Adventure and the other movies to comment on those).
I assure you, I meant it by definition only.
Perhaps "Classic Sequel" might be a better term then?
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And you have the "awesome" Mummy movies.
And by awesome I mean lackluster.
First there was The Mummy.
Then there was a sequel to The Mummy called The Mummy Returns.
Then there was a prequel to The Mummy Returns called The Scorpion King.
Then there was a sequel to The Mummy Returns called The Mummy: Tomb of the Dragon Emperor.
And now there's a prequel to The Scorpion King (which was a prequel to The Mummy Returns, which was a sequel to The Mummy) called The Scorpion King: Rise of the Arcadian.
Did you follow that class?
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Wait so, is Darth Vader his farther or isn't he? And who the hell is this Anakin punk in the newer ones? Obi-wans son or something? Wait no he said brother . . .
Never enjoyed the Mummy movies much, aside from Brendan Frasier actually being pretty funny.
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And you have the "awesome" Mummy movies.
Exactly!
... though I kinda liked The Mummy.
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My my my, look what I started :shock:
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Yeah, but Square said Chrono Cross wans't Chrono Trigger 2, so that's kind of word-of-god.
A better analogy, and a somewhat opposite one, might be how Ultima 7: Serpent Isle wasn't considered Ultima 8 by Origin because it's underlying engine and gameplay are identical to Ultima 7's, and the storyline is very closely linked instead of being a new story arc.
With Chrono Cross, as I said, it's sort of the opposite. It's not Chrono Trigger 2 because its gameplay is very different from CT's and the storyline is too.
I do think that's interesting, how the guy in that interview is talking about the relationship between ATB, SoM's thingy, CT's variant of ATB, what XG uses, and what CC uses.
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Again, if it wanted to be Chrono Cross and not Chrono Trigger 2, it shouldn't have killed off most of the main cast of the last game. It should have left them a complete mystery instead of being a terrible tease. "They're dead, but it's not like you care about all that. Have some blonde!Schala talking about inseminating planets instead!"
Yes, it was fun. Yes, it had excellent music and art. Yes, it gets high scores.
It is still a horribly disappointing SEQUEL.
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The game never explicitly states that Crono and Marle are dead (unless you assume, maybe, that it takes place in a timeline where Crono never got revived), Lucca's quite probably not dead in Home world, and Frog and Ayla would've been dead anyway by 1020. The ghost-like creatures are not Lucca's, Marle's, and Crono's ghosts. The original cast would've been in their late 30s when they died, and the ghosts are based off how they look when they were younger. The script makes it sound like they're some sort of messaging system that's part of FATE or something anyway.
And, in any case, I'm not sure when "killed off characters for previous game" meant that something was a bad sequel.
Look, is it seriously going out on a limb to say that players were upset more because they played Chrono Trigger when they were young, had incredibly fond memories of it, formed some sort of attachment to the characters in it, and were more upset about the game violating their memories or something and less concerned about the actual merits of CC's story?
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And, in any case, I'm not sure when "killed off characters for previous game" meant that something was a bad sequel.
Look, is it seriously going out on a limb to say that players were upset more because they played Chrono Trigger when they were young, had incredibly fond memories of it, formed some sort of attachment to the characters in it, and were more upset about the game violating their memories or something and less concerned about the actual merits of CC's story?
QFT
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The entire 8-bit and 16-bit fanbases might as well be built on nostalgia. It's going out on a limb to say nostalgia isn't a factor.
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Zeality is right. There are several games I never experienced when they were out. Even some of the ones I have experienced when they were out, playing them now is not fun. There are some games that just do not age well. Mario kart, in my opinion is one of those series that do not age well.
I wonder what I would think of DKC, one of my favorite games, if I were to play it for the first time now.
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I'm on the side of the wall that believes that Cross is definitely a sequel to Trigger.
Robo = promethius circuit
Chrono, Lucca and Marle's appearances in the game.
Schala's involvement in the plot.
Lavos' return.
ect ect
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I didn't like DKC much when I played it when I was younger and it was still sort of newish. At the same time, though, some of the stuff I've read about it makes me think I'd like it more if I played it again.
Sometimes I think with old games, if you don't enjoy them anymore, you need a new way of playing them. For instance, when I was younger, I used to grind through RPGs a lot. If I did that now, I'd go nuts. However, a lot of the games that I ground through don't really NEED grinding. And on the other hand, some do.
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Nostalgia is built on a house of LIES~!! I don't believe nostalgia has any significant factor unless you're some kind of d-bag...even if evidence is to the contrary (although to me the evidence also shows that most people ARE d-bags, so I suppose it works both ways)...Good games are good regardless of when they come out. I can still pump in Ms Pacman and blast through level after level...Old games had to focus on tight, fun, freewheeling gameplay mechanics because that's ALL THEY HAD. Each successive gen has allowed them to not only expand on this, but to deviate as well.
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I don't think there's anything wrong with nostalgia. I just don't think it's useful if you're trying to make a slightly-more-objective point about something.
Oh, there is one case where I WILL say the current generation has some issues compared to previous generations, and that's with PC gaming a few years ago during the MMORPG craze. I'm not a fan of WoW but it's pretty much killed all the competition before it can even get started so it does have the huge fringe benefit of getting developers to make other things besides MMOs now.
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I don't really think I'll be able to show you guys at all where most of the people who played Cross after Trigger are coming from at all when they say it let them down. You dismiss me as nostalgic and unwilling to blindly praise Cross while you all ignore my points.
And, in any case, I'm not sure when "killed off characters for previous game" meant that something was a bad sequel.
It doesn't, but Cross just did it in such a vague, insulting way. More than the characters, it killed all the charm and non-convoluted story telling style of Trigger. Being a mindfuck doesn't automatically make something deep.
But I have always said that Cross is a good game on its own. It has many wonderful qualities, but many glaring faults, many of which are related to it being nothing like its predecessor, and at the same time, continuing the story in a pointlessly miserable way. If there was a point, I'd like to hear it.
Hell, it's not like Trigger was a perfect game, either. I think it's okay to like something and still be willing to admit where it messes up.
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I love Chrono Trigger, but I have never cared for Chrono Cross. I am not a "graphics whore", but I am a very visual person. When I first started seeing pictures from Cross in magazines I was completely put off. The new art style was (and is) completely bland and uninteresting to me, and the apparent lack of direct association with the first game both in the visuals and in what I understood of the cast and narrative at the time made me skip it entirely. I have since purchased the game, because I loved Trigger and felt I needed to give Cross a chance. I've tried to play it a few times, and I just cannot get into it. It just doesn't grab me. I've tried very hard to give a crap about what's going on in the beginning of the game, but I just can't. It doesn't feel like it has anything to do with Trigger, and I can't even enjoy it on it's own merits because I don't care for the new art style, or the new gameplay (the new battle system is kind of crap, in my opinion). The bottom line is, I was extremely disappointed in Chrono Cross, both as a sequel and as it's own separate game, and would love to see a true sequel to Chrono Trigger.
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I don't really think I'll be able to show you guys at all where most of the people who played Cross after Trigger are coming from at all when they say it let them down.
When I played Chrono Cross as a person who played Chrono Trigger first sometime earlier, I was let down. As someone who's favorite RPG at the time was Chrono Trigger, I was let down. That was eight years ago, and at this point, Chrono Trigger really, really doesn't mean anything to me anymore. I think it's fun and I like the story, but neither it nor Cross are games I would consider all-time favorites or pinnacles of game design.
It doesn't, but Cross just did it in such a vague, insulting way.
The reason I'm dismissing your points as being entirely based out of nostalgia and not very good in general is that you keep bringing up the word "insulting," and I'm not really sure how a game could actually insult you otherwise. Your dislike for the story is very clearly not related to the story's merits themselves, but how you percieve the game as debasing your personal and emotional attachments to its predecessor.
In any case, I'm not expecting blind praise for Chrono Cross. I'm just looking forward to a time when blind praise for Chrono Trigger isn't expected.
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I loved Cross for what it was. Sure, it didn't satisfy my longing to see Crono and company back in action, but as a standalone game it was solid. It WAS a solid game, after all. Complain what you will about difficultly, too many characters (many of which are optional), sometimes difficult storyline (I was 15 when Chrono Cross first came out and I had very little problems understanding the plot when I actually thought about it)... but at the end of the day, it was met with rave reviews by most. It seems that the people who dislike it the most (and not saying all, just the majority) just dislike Chrono Cross because it wasn't what they wanted, because it wasn't what they expected.
Was it what I expected? No.
Was it what I was wanting in a Chrono sequel? No.
Was it a heckuva great game? Yes.
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Perhaps "Classic Sequel" might be a better term then?
I'd say, in hindsight, that "gaiden" would probably be the best term.
The Japanese word Gaiden (外伝, often translated as "side-story" or "tale") is used to refer to an anecdote or supplementary biography of a person. The term Gaiden is commonly used in popular Japanese fiction to refer to a spinoff (canonical or otherwise) of a previously published work that is not officially considered a sequel nor a prequel. However, some "Gaiden" story are retold stories in the perspective a different character, similar to that of a flashback.
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It continues the story of Chrono Trigger. Featuring the same protagonist is not anywhere NEAR a rigid standard for something to qualify as a sequel in written fiction. It only is in video gaming because that's what people expect.
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It only is in video gaming because that's what people expect.
Unless it's Final Fantasy, where not having story connections at all is the norm.
(If it's something like the case with Star control 3, however, where none of the original developers from the first two games worked on it, and the original developers say that the game isn't a real sequel, THEN at that point it's not a real sequel).
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It continues the story of Chrono Trigger. Featuring the same protagonist is not anywhere NEAR a rigid standard for something to qualify as a sequel in written fiction. It only is in video gaming because that's what people expect.
I think that's being a little over-simplistic about the application of "gaiden". Do you not agree that Chrono Cross spins-off/expands(canonically) on only a single/few facet(s) of Chrono Trigger from a different persective─that of Serge's.
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Yes, but it certainly brings it home with Lavos, the original villain.
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Yes, but it certainly brings it home with Lavos, the original villain.
True enough, but that is a sort of 'what-if' form of Lavos.
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It only is in video gaming because that's what people expect.
Unless it's Final Fantasy, where not having story connections at all is the norm.
Or Breath of Fire where the only real connection is the hero's name & connections to the Dragon clan...or Dragon Quest, which sorta kept the same world for a while...Phantasy Star kept the same world as well...I think Seiken Densetsu also kept the same world...the Mother/Earthbound series doesn't seem to keep anything really besides the villain's name & some similar themes, I think...idk wtf the SaGa series connects with one another...
It almost seems as though this whole "game sequels need the same protagonist in 'em" thing is a mostly new concept...>_>
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Or Breath of Fire where the only real connection is the hero's name & connections to the Dragon clan...or Dragon Quest, which sorta kept the same world for a while...Phantasy Star kept the same world as well...I think Seiken Densetsu also kept the same world...the Mother/Earthbound series doesn't seem to keep anything really besides the villain's name & some similar themes, I think...idk wtf the SaGa series connects with one another...
Okay, breath of fire is weird. As far as I know, BoF1-3 take place in the same world, and Ryu is various incarnations of the same guy. 4 and 5 may or may not take place in the same world.
Dragon Quest can be divided into two main arcs -- the Loto and Zenithian arcs. DQ1-3 have very direct story connections. I don't know much about 4-6. We'll see as they get remade. 7 and 8 are definitely in their own little worlds. The DQM games are generally side stories to other DQ games.
Mother 3 and Earthbound are very directly connected from everything I've heard. Mother 1 is connected, too, but in a much vaguer way that nobody really understands, and it's possible Earthbound is a remake of Mother 1's story.
Seiken's also weird. SD1 and 2 share the same world, with SD2 being a prequel, vaguely, to SD1. SD3 may or may not be in the same world. Heroes of Mana is a direct sequel to SD3, apparently. Legend of mana is its own world. I have no clue where Children and Dawn fit in.
SaGa, like final fantasy, doesn't share connections.
And then all of the Zelda games do fit into some timeline in the same world except Miyamoto is being a jerk and not telling anyone.
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Just like Chrono Cross.
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Heroes of Mana is a direct sequel to SD3, apparently.
Actually, it's a prequel. ;)
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While we're at it, let's bring back Cyrus for the sequel. It isn't like he died or anything, no! You see his body catch fire and dissapear like that? Dracula obviously teleported him to his moon base...
http://drmcninja.com/issue11/11p16.gif >_>
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...the Mother/Earthbound series doesn't seem to keep anything really besides the villain's name & some similar themes, I think...
If I recall right, Mother 3 is connected with Earthbound (sharing a villain, again, and the main characters from Earthbound are mentioned).
But on the topic of sequels, I've recently become aware of a foreign horror movie called The Eye (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eye_(2002_film)). It also has two sequels, The Eye 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eye_2) and The Eye 10 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eye_10). Though sequels, the only thing those three movies have in common is a basic theme (seeing the spirits of the dead).
Part of being a sequel, it would seem, is the creator's intent. If Kato says it isn't a sequel, then no matter the arguments to the contrary, it isn't. But if he says it is, then it is. So really, it is a fairly simple way to determine things.
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Sort of reminds me of that "Playstation 9" commercial.
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http://www.destructoid.com/rumortoid-chrono-trigger-s-new-dungeon-possible-game-sequel-101218.phtml
Look at the comments.
Thank God the Compendium isn't run by a Chrono Trigger fanboy.
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I got about half way through then had to stop reading, its so disappointing.
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I read the whole thing, and ugh.
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I don't see why they couldn't create a new installment AND pump out a PSP port/remake of CC...
Otherwise, I don't see anything big about those posts...I mean, what? Like we don't know some people don't like CC (some for stupid reasons)? Yeah, those guys on the CT board on GameFAQs aren't completely unique.
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Because, when I see that stuff, I have one of these moments:
(http://gravybread.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/crying-indian_fullhead80p.jpg)
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I whined at a friend of mine to finally finish Chrono Trigger recently. He thought it was a solid game but still doesn't love it (apart from the screwed up leg eating part)
[friend of mine]: Listen I am not the biggest Chrono Trigger fan but CC doesn't belong in the same universe. It doesn't deal with any of the same themes. It barely touches on the characters, and when it does, it's to kill them off. I mean basically it seems like a sequel produced to enrage the fans.
...
maggiekarp: [friend] what would you like in a chrono sequel
[f]: I dunno. Alternate worlds wasn't a bad idea, but it was implemented with all the subtlety of an old man staggering down a hall at you with a severe case of priapism
[f]: Ideally there would be more than two with four locations each.
[f]: Fewer characters. Keep the battle system the way it was, it was probably the best part
[f]: Honestly I don't see much need for a sequel
[f]: It's pretty complete
[f]: You try to hard to make a sequel, you get idiocy (CC)
[other friend]: I could see a sequel on a simplier system, like the DS
[of]: too much complication is bad for time travel.
[of]: I liked the stupid time travel fun of CT
[of]: dfsfdsd priapism
[f]: Yeah it doesn't make any sense if you think about it
[f]: You can't make it logical, they shouldn't have tried to be Xenogears
[f]: I guess I liked that part in CC where you were in like the expressionist painting and met the little imp lady
[f]: They can leave that in
[f]: more expressionist painting parts
[yet anudda friend]: i just liked the level system
[yaf]: where grinding could help you but not very much
[f]: And yeah, it was nice not having to grind and level up constantly
[f]: Basically, mechanically I think CC was pretty interesting. The only issue is the characters were virtually identical
[f]: I even like the graphics, most of the music. It's a very well designed game, it's just somehow terrible
[f]: I can't explain it
[f]: I guess it's that the plot is moronic and it really has no soul
[f]: There
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(http://gravybread.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/crying-indian_fullhead80p.jpg)
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It's not his fault he got the name Chief Crying Bear...
The only issue is the characters were virtually identical...no soul
That's the heart of the argument against CC that your friend brought up (well, the only part worth noting). The characters just don't seem up to par. Everything else was fine.
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It's the only argument worth noting because for the most part he was praising the game and listing parts he did like. I'm just saying that while CC did a lot of things right, the things it did wrong leave a bad taste in the mouth of a lot of gamers. Not just nostalgic ones, as this example doesn't even really like CT and only beat it recently.
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I actually played through CC first, and when you do that it makes both of the games incredibly more enjoyable. I can't explain why, it just does. Play through Cross, then Trigger, Then Cross again. That's what I did, and both of the games were spectacular and -dare I say it- Satisfying. I can't understand the whole rag on Cross.
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I played CC before RD...and ended up liking RD a bit more.
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I played Trigger first and joined the super fan bandwagon then. Then I played Chrono Cross (got it the day it came out). Got Legend of Mana just for the Chrono Cross demo only to find that the demo was only in the Japanese version of Legend of Mana.
Didn't play Radical Dreamers until about 6 months after the retranslation came out. Enjoyed, but the whole "choose your own adventure" aspect wasn't as exciting as literal gameplay (to me, but I also understand "to each his own").
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I want a Full new Chrono Trigger game Badly:(