Chrono Compendium
Enhasa Halls - Chrono Series Analysis => History, Locations, and Artifacts => Topic started by: V_Translanka on March 04, 2004, 08:01:06 am
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Now now...I'm not expecting a vast assortment of theories on this or anything...I don't even know if there really is a lot to discuss on this...But...
After a brief, and I'm talkin' pretty fuggin' BRIEF here, visit to an old haunt of mine, the Square Insider (is it just me, or should they limit animated sigs just a TAD?) Chrono Series Forum, someone named TranceKuja brought up how he felt this weapon gave Magus extra power.
He said that it was his feelings for his fallen comrads that gives Magus that extra boost. I always thought it was more along the lines of a Magus-Works-Better-Alone (or at least likes to work alone) type of thing...What do you think?
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I always saw it as a Weapon-will-steal-your-soul kinda thing.
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I would mostly agree with Empiric, I think. Of course it really doesn't harm his comrades, but from it draws its strength from their fall. Sort of fueled by the black wind that Magus always feels, or something similar; a weapon that is with connected to dark fate and death.
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It is true that Magus feels the Black Wind when death is or is about to occur. He feels it as a child in Enhasa, and prior to the battle with Frog. Additionally, he may have detected it just before vanquishing Ozzie in the Ozzie's Fort Sidequest. 'Spiritual power' is alluded to throughout Chrono Trigger, namely in the functioning of the Masamune and the Mammon Machine, and perhaps it is this that empowers the DoomSickle.
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Ah yes, that all makes sence...To add to the Black Wind exposition...Direa says to Serge, "Hmm? There is an odd wind that is whirling about. I have heard that such wind-bearers appear at times, but..." I've always thought this refered to the Black Wind, and it fits w/Serge as he is dead in Direa's timeline. Neat-O!
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Well, not to sound like I make easy generalizations about these things, but I thought that either it was the "Magus works best alone, or prefers to show his true power to nobody" type of thing, or a simple "Damn, there's nothing to do but to go all out because I'm the only one left" act of desperation type of thing. I don't think it utilizes souls or has any amount of spiritual energy at all, much to the fact that it is the exact opposite of the Masamune, or any product of the red rock for that matter, because it doesn't cultivate dreams or a holy force, but constructs Doom when met with Doom.
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Tons of weapons have certain abilities you don't see a topic for like Rainbow's critical hit rate or something. It's just an extra effect nothing more.
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Well, not to sound like I make easy generalizations about these things, but I thought that either it was the "Magus works best alone, or prefers to show his true power to nobody" type of thing, or a simple "Damn, there's nothing to do but to go all out because I'm the only one left" act of desperation type of thing. I don't think it utilizes souls or has any amount of spiritual energy at all, much to the fact that it is the exact opposite of the Masamune, or any product of the red rock for that matter, because it doesn't cultivate dreams or a holy force, but constructs Doom when met with Doom.
Opposite of the Masamune? What did you base that on? I've never heard anything of the sort. If anything, the Masamune is the opposite of itself, depending on which dimension and time period you're in. I've really never thought of any other weapon but the Red Knife having any sort of connection to the Masamune. Anyway, even if it really were the opposite of the Masamune, that would mean it feeds on darker spiritual energy--evil energy, malicious thoughts, nightmares--for such a power, not that it has no power whatsoever.
Besides, if your theory were to hold any merit, Magus would have to get this bonus from all his weapons. If the Doom Sickle is as powerless as you say, then what makes Magus get the "last-ditch effort" bonus with it alone?
TranceKuja's theory is a little far-fetched. When has Magus ever shown any sort of feeling for his acquaintances? For that is all they are--co-workers, part of a grander corporation, but never close partners, and much less friends. Magus will work with them to get what he wants. It always puts me off when people assume that deep down, under the harsh, stereotypical interior, Magus has genuine care and compassion for people. In reality, the only person he could ever feel for is Schala. Everyone else is either a pawn or dead to him, unless you count Lavos as a person, in which case Lavos is also the only "person" he could ever have anything similar to contempt or, on the extreme, hatred for. Really, he's not an emotional person, no matter how may cell layes, bones, and internal organs you shove out of the way to look for proof.
V_Translanka's theory I would approve of, if it didn't have the vital flaw that if it were true, Magus would get the same bonus no matter what weapon he chose. If it could be modified in some way that his lonesome preference somehow fueled the weapon (which really wouldn't be a difficult change), I'd find it acceptable. Otherwise, I can only identify with Empiric's theory, using Guardian_of_Ages' post as a vital corollary.
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I thought I had explained that this was just a generalization, not fact. It's just the way I feel, but if you so wish to debate, sounds like fun!
Firstly, the Masamune isn't the opposite of itself, the only reason it EVER went evil was because Masa and Mune's souls had fallen asleep, and when they awoke, they knew what the sword could do. You see, the sword, like all weapons apparantly, have their own will, and this one just happened to be mischievious. The Masamune is surely not the opposite of itself.
The main reason I thought that it was an opposite of the Masamune in general, is because it implies Doom, whereas the Masamune implies justice and a clean soul. Holy vs. Evil type of thing, if you will... I HATE making such a simple generalization about these mirror weapons, but that's the quickest way to say it. In practice, the Masamune is spiritual, and the Doombo (hahaha, don't shoot me) here happens to be evil in practice.
Also, my act of desperation theory, leaves me to think that it only works with this weapon because Magus only POSSESSES this power with this weapon. After all, after the end of your "companions" lives, Magus suddenly increases strength by leaps and bounds. I hardly feel that this is the action of the weapon itself, but rather the weapon responding to Magus' anger and desperation. I also think that Magus realizes that he can tap into this power, but as he pretty much ALWAYS keeps his cool, he usually doesn't.
Well, that's just the way I've always thought of it, and there you have it. Oh, and as to the extent of his love for his companions, I never said he loved them, although I always thought that he had some unspoken respect that he had for them. This can be sited in Radical Dreamers where Magil *cough*Magus*cough* states that he knew the owner of the "evil sword Masamune" and when prompted by kid whether they were friends, he says nothing, but when asked if they were enemies, he hesitates and says "...No". Thank you and goodnight :P.
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Opposite of the Masamune? What did you base that on? I've never heard anything of the sort. If anything, the Masamune is the opposite of itself, depending on which dimension and time period you're in. I've really never thought of any other weapon but the Red Knife having any sort of connection to the Masamune.
Yes, you have heard something of the sort. It was called the "Einlanzer" and it was the opposite of the Masamune.
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The Einlanzer was the opposite of the Masamune in which Masa and Mune lie dormant, this is no longer a truth...
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Firstly, the Masamune isn't the opposite of itself.
He was just making a point. The Einlanzer is only the opposite of the Masamune in that it was forged by the Dragonians. Humans/Dragonians/whatever, the swords aren't that "opposite." Both are holy.
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You know, this is probably going a little far (and isn't about the Doom Sickle)...but maybe the Einlanzer is a twin to the Masamune in the same way that Terra Tower and Chronopolis are twin. What I have always thought on that matter is what follows. Terra Tower is the future of a Reptite dominated timeline. Now, the Dreamstone exists in both (because it existed before any such split, I would think). In the human timeline it is used to forge both the Mammon Machine and the Masamune. What of the Reptite timeline? I don't think it unlikely that the same could have been done by the Reptites, though after their subsequent loss of the war they would have lost it to humanity. Thus we have a sword that is effectively a brother to the Masamune, and so has the power to circumvent its evil at Death's Door. I think it's a logical assumption.
Anyway, in regards to the Sickle, I still maintain what I did before. Let's see, the dictionary give the definition of "doom" as being: 1) fate (that's an old sense of the word, I think) 2)a terrible fate; ruin; death 3.)judgement 4.)the end of the world
Well, I think we can discount "4"...that would be more in the line of Lavos. "1" doesn't mean much in this regard. But 2 and 3... well, 3 could mean that it pronounces judgement on the enemy for their defeat of the others, but I personally don't think that works. That leaves 2, which is easily most plausable. Ruin, death...fits nicely with Janus. And bolsters the arguments that have been brought up regarding Janus' perception of the Black Wind. It is said in old Greek myth, and thence into our own myth, that the grim reaper Thanatos comes to bear people away to Hades; perhaps such a summons is what the sickle feels. Actually, there being a feeling of death, a premonition and such, is not an uncommon thing in legend and such. Most likely it is such a feeling or aura that is what empowers the sickle.
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Yes, you have heard something of the sort. It was called the "Einlanzer" and it was the opposite of the Masamune.
Seeing as how I've never actually played all the way through Chrono Cross and most of my information was gathered here, I'm not surprised that I've never actually heard that much about the Einlanzer or its connection to the Masamune--it was never a topic I felt interested in discussing.
Firstly, the Masamune isn't the opposite of itself, the only reason it EVER went evil was because Masa and Mune's souls had fallen asleep, and when they awoke, they knew what the sword could do. You see, the sword, like all weapons apparantly, have their own will, and this one just happened to be mischievious. The Masamune is surely not the opposite of itself.
I never said it was the opposite of itself. I was just saying that, if anything, one incarnation of the Masamune was the opposite of the previous incarnation, and that since that's obviously not true, neither is the assumption that the Doom Sickle is naturally evil and therefore the Masamune's adversary. This might be speculated on more appropriately if, say, Magus wielded the Doom Sickle in fighting Frog, but since you don't find the Doom Sickle until later, that's not a possibility.
Oh, and as to the extent of his love for his companions, I never said he loved them, although I always thought that he had some unspoken respect that he had for them. This can be sited in Radical Dreamers where Magil *cough*Magus*cough* states that he knew the owner of the "evil sword Masamune" and when prompted by kid whether they were friends, he says nothing, but when asked if they were enemies, he hesitates and says "...No". Thank you and goodnight .
I never said you said he loved them; I was referring to the user mentioned in V_Translanka's first post, which suggested that he did. That is blatantly false. Like I mentioned when refuting TranceKuja's theory, though, Magus is incapable of holding hatred for anyone/thing but Lavos and he cannot love anyone but Schala. That would be why he said "No." Respect is not an emotion, verily, so that may indeed be true. However, they are not likely to be his friends, as I mentioned. And quite honestly, Magus has never really shown his emotions, good or bad, for anyone--they are only so obviously hinted at in Schala's case that we naturally and assuredly come to assume he still loves her. Anything else we cannot know for sure.
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Anger and frustration are both emotions, and they are well expemplified by Magus Zeal. He also expressed fear, another emotion, for Schala, and even as a child expressed fear for himself when thrown into the time warp. Magus shows emotions quite readily enough, he just doesn't know it yet :). Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Magus' role as the anti-hero, but you have to admit that he has shown emotions from time to time.
Also, I was just trying to prove that he didn't hate any of his former enemies like Frog or Crono and co. I was simply trying to disprove this, because I'm tired of people saying that there was indeed hatred, even though I didn't really think that was the point that you were trying to drive anyway. I just hear something similar, get on my soapbox, all because it reminds me of other things I've heard, horrible little habit of mine.
BTW, I would like to complement on this debate, as I don't really get to have any intelligent conversation in school (sad, no?). Kudos, I love debate :P.
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Anger and frustration are both emotions, and they are well expemplified by Magus Zeal. He also expressed fear, another emotion, for Schala, and even as a child expressed fear for himself when thrown into the time warp. Magus shows emotions quite readily enough, he just doesn't know it yet :). Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Magus' role as the anti-hero, but you have to admit that he has shown emotions from time to time.
Also, I was just trying to prove that he didn't hate any of his former enemies like Frog or Crono and co. I was simply trying to disprove this, because I'm tired of people saying that there was indeed hatred, even though I didn't really think that was the point that you were trying to drive anyway. I just hear something similar, get on my soapbox, all because it reminds me of other things I've heard, horrible little habit of mine.
As Janus, Magus is already cold. Yes, he shows anger and fear as the child prince, but spending years with the Mystics has further deprived him of emotion. He no longer cares to hate, as I've said twice, with Lavos as the exception. So no, he does not hate Frog, Crono, or any other members of the party; he never did. Mayhaps he showed amusement with Frog--there are still exceptions to Magus's lack of emotion, although all are slight (except, as I repeat, Schala and Lavos). Yes, I already said he had emotions concerning Schala; I did not specifically mention fear, partly because it wasn't as important as love and I didn't want to ramble too much and also because I never really thought he was honestly afraid for Schala--worried, maybe, but not so much as to fear for her.
I wouldn't count amusement as much of an emotion, though, so my statement still stands: Magus has voided his emotions, save they be for Schala or Lavos. And, as with any such general statement, there are exceptions: few and small, but exceptions. Though, he still doesn't get really frustrated or angry at anyone but Lavos.
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He clearly doesn't hate Frog, and comes to respect him. For those that haven't seen the Frog vs. Magus ending, skip this quote if you want to get it for yourself:
Except for you and I, this world is populated by cretins.
He says this to Frog, which, at least to me, implies a level of respect.
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Can't believe I forgot to site that quote when I could site one from the crap that was Radical Dreamers! Oh well. BTW, amusement is a side affect of Humor, another emotion, though Magus' humor is sick LOL.
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...Radical Dreamers wasn't crap, it was quite engaging and a bit scary if played at 4 AM without any lighting.
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By all means, quote Radical Dreamers. Here, I'll go first:
Heat cup....provolone...soccer mom!
Your turn.
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Well, let's just say I didn't enjoy Radical Dreamers much, didn't mean to offend anyone who was a big fan of the game. Anyway:
"Get off your arse and make yourself useful, Serge!". I like that one :).
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All You'll Ever Need To Know About Humor: (http://ctf.sytes.net/crg2g-1.html)
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Wow, another novel... I'm starting to get discouraged, because I'm in the long and difficult process of writing my own, and may never finish before these other people. What, this has to be like, the sixth novel other than my own I've encountered up to this point. Ugh, I'm probably screwed...
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This also has to be the fifth or sixth novel you've encountered at this point that's still stuck at the beginning of Chapter Two. Or that doesn't really plan to be comparable to any decent sort of novel in length or epic quality. :lol:
Really, The Cheap Rip-Off Guide To The Galaxy has never been described as a novel, and is merely a parody fan-fiction of The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy, in which I struggle to be half the devoted satirist of absolutely nothing that Douglas Adams was.
As far as Into The Dream, well, that's yet another piece of fanfiction inspired with the Compendium.
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My novel sequel to CT was inspired by the kindness shown by some of my friends in the recent years, so I'm making it a point to do it right, because I owe it to them. It's dedicated to all my friends who have supported me through struggles.
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I think the DoomSickle's ability to empower Magus after the death of his comrades in battle is merely a game mechanic and would have been explained in a sidequest or some other way if the cause of the weapon's effect were anything other than a game mechanic.
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I agree with Beever. Although some weapons have something truly special about them (red katana give +2 to magic, which makes sense because Melchior forged it) other weapons just have extra abilities because its a GAME. It has to have those game elements, not all of it can but just story and not all of it has to be relevant to plot or character development. Yes, I'm sure something special about the Rainbow gives it 70% hit rate, despite how Crono wields it..... See what I mean?
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There are a couple of threads I would direct you towards. They offer both justification for our analyzations and a bit of warning about what I would best describe as metagame thinking. Im not gonna be bothered by placing the links here, as I would prefer to continue with the discussion at hand.
This might be speculated on more appropriately if, say, Magus wielded the Doom Sickle in fighting Frog, but since you don't find the Doom Sickle until later, that's not a possibility
Anyways, as for the earlier statement regarding Magus not having access to the Doomsickle at the time of Frog's transformation; remember it is held in a Fortress held by Ozzie, a lieutenant of Magus. Ozzie does not wield a weapon as far as I can tell, and a scythe would be beyond him. Thus, I would imagine that Magus had access to the Sickle during the time he ruled the mystics. Why would Ozzie hide such a powerful weapon from his lord and master?
Perhaps Ozzie had stolen the Doomsickle from Magus when Magus deserted the Mystics and the palace was being absorbed into time, taking the big guns as his gravyboat was sinking? It would make sense for Magus's minions to loot and plunder as they leave; after all, they are all villains to begin with.
Just something for you to mull over for those stories of yours.
I've always found it funny how objects are just left around in treasure chests in various RPGs. Ozzie appeared to share that sense of humor, knowing no RPG adventurer would give up a treasure chest.
Trying to make sense of the Chaos is half the fun.
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I don't think it utilizes souls or has any amount of spiritual energy at all, much to the fact that it is the exact opposite of the Masamune, or any product of the red rock for that matter, because it doesn't cultivate dreams or a holy force, but constructs Doom when met with Doom.
I think that, right there, is the best example. It isn't a holy sickle, and neither does it draw power from the (souls) of your fallen comrades. Magus is fighting alone, "doomed", so the Sickle mirrors it.[/b]
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As Janus, Magus is already cold. Yes, he shows anger and fear as the child prince, but spending years with the Mystics has further deprived him of emotion.
I think the comparison is lost on me somehow...Where does Janus sound angry? Besides when you first can see him (for some reason I can't find that), these are all of Janus' lines in the game...
"Schala!!"
"The black wind..."
"What is it?"
"She's NOT our mother! She looks like mother, but inside she has changed."
"......Go away."
"Don't waste your time. Alfador only likes me."
"Hmph! Idiots...What will you do, Schala?"
"I think it's useless. Besides, if they escape, you'll be in trouble."
"Schala..."
"Stop!"
"What a filthy hovel."
"Schala!"
"SCHALA!!"
"B, but!?"
"S, Schalaaa!!"
And those last three were from the flashback...I don't think there's quite enough to judge much more of Janus than he's a little bratty prince-type. I wouldn't call it angry meself I guess?
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"She's NOT our mother! She looks like mother, but inside she has changed."
This is the one, right here. And his quotes as Magus further explain this. He's always had nothing but contempt for his mother because she was fool enough to be lured by Lavos's power and forgot everything else in the world in doing it.
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Maybe I read that a little differently than you...Sure, I feel like I get a lot out of those two sentences...But contempt? Especially absolute contempt?
He says Zeal isn't their mother...At the time, and his age, she really wasn't. She went nutso and started worshiping Lavos! I wouldn't feel all to proud of the ma after doing something like that myself...
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Janus doesn't seem to like stupid people.
And obviously, he considered his mother to be stupid for being so obsessed.
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Janus doesn't seem to like stupid people.
And obviously, he considered his mother to be stupid for being so obsessed.
I agree, and I do think he holds contempt for his mother; he looks down on her heavily for what she has become. Janus doesn't seem to like anyone else except Schala, so I don't think its just about them being 'stupid'. He never opens up to anyone but his sister, so his uhh antisocial personality probably makes him give off that contempt-for-all vibe.
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I just don't see how it's "oh so obvious" after one brief exchange with his sister and him saying something along the lines of "She's not our mother! She's different now!". He never really goes into the 'why' of it. How do you know he holds contept for his mother because of her Lavos obsession? He doesn't say anything about it, he even practically hints that he doesn't even know about it all that much really.
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He does say that shes "NOT [his] mother!!" He doesn't see her as the person she apparently was and doesn't care for this 'new' person at all. He cares about his sister, but even around her he is a bit sassy (lol). He doesn't appear to think highly of really anyone. I don't see why it doesn't seem plausible that he has contempt for his mother. contempt means that he thinks of others as 'lower than him' or not 'worthy' of something. He seems to have that attitude about everyone, esp the Earthbound Ones and Crono and Co. So why would he not hold contempt for somebody he obviously disagrees with?
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I agree with Janus feeling contempt. It seems to be one of his few emotions. He definately regards the Earthbound as less that he is, and he certainly doesn't think much higher of the Mystics...bring him with you to Ozzie's Fort to see what I mean. The only person he expresses any respect for is Frog, and even in that, he is expressing his contempt at the rest of the world. Arrogant fellow, that Janus.
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Well, for one, I already said I thought he did have some contempt, but contempt means he's more disgraced by his mother, and it was being said that he had a kind of absolute contempt for his mother when he only speaks one line about it...
He doesn't appear to think highly of really anyone...He seems to have that attitude about everyone, esp the Earthbound Ones
He definately regards the Earthbound as less that he is
I don't know if I fully understand this either...It seems too hasty and with not enough evidence to jump to this conclusion...Why do you think he also holds contempt for the Earthbound ones? Because he said that their living arrangements were "filthy"? I just don't think that's enough to base something like contempt on.
Hell, I barely understand you saying he also disrespects Crono & Co...Doesn't he warn them about the Black Wind? Don't they idiotically run straight into the Zeal Palace throne room (or whatever?)? Everything he says about them, when he says them, is truth. Janus is blunt if anything.
Also, I dunno if I'd say he respects Frog all that much...He DOES call him "that stupid frog"...and y'know...that whole thing with turning him into a frog...Maybe when Crono & Co. stepped in and Frog finally gained some courage he respected part of him...And especially in the timeline where Frog goes to face Magus solo, but regularly? Nope.
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What's the quote Magus says to Frog? Something along the lines of, "Except for you and I, this world is inhabited by cretins." Wording may be off, but that's the gist. He definitely respects Frog more than most.
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Janus as a child and as an adult seems to look down on people who make "errors". As a child, he shows his disgust for the way his mother is acting, calls Crono and Co. idiots for rushing into the throne room (he says that Schala shouldn't help them because she would get into trouble, Janus seems to be a super-practical person.); as an adult, Magus insults Crono for attacking Lavos. I guess in that respect he is sort of a hypocrite as well.
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What's the quote Magus says to Frog? Something along the lines of, "Except for you and I, this world is inhabited by cretins." Wording may be off, but that's the gist. He definitely respects Frog more than most.
Magus: Except for you and I, this world is populated by cretins...
and like I said...
Maybe when Crono & Co. stepped in and Frog finally gained some courage he respected part of him...And especially in the timeline where Frog goes to face Magus solo, but regularly? Nope.
That was an alternate timeline in which he says that, in The Oath ending. He says this because it's true. He despises the war of Guarda & the Mystics and likes neither side. He respects Frog's courage for facing him and also for coming alone. But Magus also calls him an idiot in, like, all the timelines...and, like I said, there's that whole thing of when he turned him into a frog...So I think that brings Glenn back to about even on Magus' dislikement scale...
Magus insults Crono for attacking Lavos. I guess in that respect he is sort of a hypocrite as well.
Magus: But no history book could have prepared me for what happened here. Unimaginable is the power of Lavos. Anyone who dares to oppose...it...meets certain doom. At this rate, you too, will meet a hideous fate. Just like that poor fool, Crono!
He calls him a poor fool. The first word is sorrowful in a way and his whole speel can be seen that way as well. The second is just more truth. The bravest are often also the most foolish. Their actions be seen as either very brave or very stupid. Crono sacrificed himself. This is a foolish concept to Magus.
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"Poor fool" doesn't usually imply actual sorrow. They may be sad to see him go in the way that one is feels sorry even for loose acquaintances who experience a death in their family or friends, but it doesn't seem like the kind of thing you'd say about someone you're truly remorseful about. Poor is more of a loose condition, a given respect for the dead, whereas the meat of the phrase is in fool. When it comes to Magus, words seem to be more powerful at face value, and I've never interpreted that line to be anything more than an insult.
And if you take a look at the party's next lines, they obviously did, too, and since Magus never bothers to correct them or tell them they're mistaken, that suggests that we should interpret as such too. So while Magus may not be a hypocrite for attacking Lavos, because he had no idea how powerful it was, he still considers Crono to be stupid for challenging Lavos after it basically wiped out everyone else.
And even if Frog is even (which is not how I understood what you said earlier, sorry), that's a lot more than most others besides Schala and Alfador can claim.
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Fight Queen Zeal with Magus in your party and he will show you what conpempt for her he has.
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Yes, 1stoftheLast, but we were talking about JANUS' supposed contempt. I don't think he had that yet, back then...At least, not as full-on as has been said so far...
"Poor fool" doesn't usually imply actual sorrow. They may be sad to see him go in the way that one is feels sorry even for loose acquaintances who experience a death in their family or friends, but it doesn't seem like the kind of thing you'd say about someone you're truly remorseful about. Poor is more of a loose condition, a given respect for the dead, whereas the meat of the phrase is in fool. When it comes to Magus, words seem to be more powerful at face value, and I've never interpreted that line to be anything more than an insult.
And if you take a look at the party's next lines, they obviously did, too, and since Magus never bothers to correct them or tell them they're mistaken, that suggests that we should interpret as such too. So while Magus may not be a hypocrite for attacking Lavos, because he had no idea how powerful it was, he still considers Crono to be stupid for challenging Lavos after it basically wiped out everyone else.
I actually said only the first word, 'poor' was sorrowful in any way...I think it makes it so that the reader can interpret it either way. He doesn't correct them, no, he asks if they want to fight him. I don't think that means we have to assume that we should interpret it either way.
I always saw that speech as having at least a hint of sorrow in it. He's telling his story. It's full of self-loathing and regret. In a way I see it as him wishing he could have done as much as Crono did, even though he died doing it, but this isn't something Magus is unfamiliar with...
Crono was called a fool. Frog was called an idiot. I don't think his worded judgements against most people are his true reality. They are just surface things that he says because he doesn't like people.
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I don't think Janus/Magus ever has contempt. I think he just feels sorry for everyone.
When he talks about the earthbound ones poor living conditions he could think that they should be better.
When he says "Poor fool" I took it as that he could have replaced it with "That unfortunate person who didn't know".
As for the you play with fire quote, he was just stating the fact. When he was called arrogant, he replies with, "You wanna fight me". He might as well have said,"You think I'm wrong". He was being standoffish in his defence of something that he felt strongly about and was willing to die for. I always thought he alluded(sp??) to the fact that he knew he was going to die in that fight by saying that he wouldn't be defeated easily. Yet he still said he would be defeated there, just not easily. Sort of a martyr.
As for for Janus, well he is young and hasn't had to much time for a personality to develope. Although we don't get Janus's age. However, when Janus says,"She's not our mother..." I felt that he was just trying to get Schala to stop following her mothers orders and hurting herself. It was almost as if every pain Schala felt, Janus felt too.
As for all the bad thing Magus does like killing Cyrus, think about this. If Magus hadn't killed Cyrus the way he did, would Frog have ever found his own inner courage? When he locks you out of 12000B.C. as the prophet he says the following:
PROPHET: Now Schala!
After I throw them in, I want you to
seal the portal shut.
SCHALA: N, no!
You can't make me!
PROPHET: Obey me!
Their lives are at stake!
SCHALA: I...oh, all right...
SCHALA: Please forgive me...
Magus knew what could happen to the group. He knew since he was young Janus that one of them was going to perish shortly. To sum this all up I would say that Magus reminds me more of Holden from The Catcher in the Rye. Both say things that make them seem mean or crazy, but their intentions are always pure. They both also have a thing for only respecting their sisters.
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Magus knew what could happen to the group. He knew since he was young Janus that one of them was going to perish shortly. To sum this all up I would say that Magus reminds me more of Holden from The Catcher in the Rye. Both say things that make them seem mean or crazy, but their intentions are always pure. They both also have a thing for only respecting their sisters.
I agreed whole-heartedly, at least in spirit, until that part about Magus knowing as Janus that one of them was going to perish. Magus doesn't have that memory, because he's from the original timeline...So he's not getting them out of the way for that reason. I think most of the things with Janus are just too vague because Janus is a near-nobody with five or six lines (SMALL) until he grows up and changes the J to an M and the N to a G.
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Well, Magus may have forgotten those memories, or perhaps he does possess them moments after history is after history is changed and Crono and Co. meet with the child wizard? Just a thought, as time seems like an instantaneous thing in the CT realm.
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Well, Magus may have forgotten those memories, or perhaps he does possess them moments after history is after history is changed and Crono and Co. meet with the child wizard? Just a thought, as time seems like an instantaneous thing in the CT realm.
V Translanka is right. Time travelers are protected from any changes made to their past world line. Any time travling event creates a new, separate timeline, and the original timeline is discarded into the Darkness Beyond Time. The time travelers themselves are unaffected by these changes because the act of time traveling comepletely separates them from the causality of original timeline.
Magus originated from, and bears the memories of the original timeline where Crono never traveled through time. By time traveling, Magus and the others created a new timeline where the events of 12000 BC occured differently. In this new timeline, a new version of Janus existed who has no relation to the original version of Magus.
Magus cannot have any memories of what the new Janus experienced, but the adult Magus can sense the Black Wind as well. If Crono was fated to die, then it would have been plainly visible to Magus.
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Where is the new Janus then? The original is the Magus who's in your party. So where's the new one?
Obviously the new Janus isn't required to be alligned with the original Janus's history, since time travelers are immune to change.
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The fate of the new Janus and the new Gurus is a mystery. Zeality and I tried to explain this through the Time Bastard theory, which essentially states that they are sent into the Darkness Beyond Time. This result is logically consistent, but is also somewhat disturbing.
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Wasn't there a quote or some such that stated that the new timeline Janus got sucked into a portal with Belthasar?
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Here's the quote. It appears when you wake up in the "Last Village". It's Melchior and not Belthasar though.
ELDER: When the disaster struck, an
eerie, black portal materialized.
Melchior tried to save Janus, but he
was also dragged in.
Lucca: A «black portal?»
A GATE!!!
Robo: A «black portal?»
No doubt, a Gate made by Lavos!
Frog: A «black portal?»
A GATE!!!
Ayla: A «black portal?»
Like one we step thru?