Chrono Compendium
Enhasa Halls - Chrono Series Analysis => Reality, Real-World Connections, and the Supernatural => Topic started by: DarkGizmo on July 03, 2005, 01:25:35 pm
-
I'm french so I have absolutly no idea what A.D. and B.C. and I jsut though about asking here, in french we sayd "# années avant/après Jesus Christ" that is translated to "# years before/after Jesus Christ", now I though BC was Before Christ but if it is, that mean that Chrono Trigger's people or christianist?
and I have no idea AD means, some can clear that up?
-
Shame on you lol,
Anno Domini in the year of our lord is A.D.
Before Christ is B.C. although there are many ways of saying before christ. Like in Portuguese its Ante de Cristo, which makes it A.C...which doesnt make sense in English.
-
ok so CT's world have a christ?
-
ok so CT's world have a christ?
haha. :lol:
Good point! :)
-
Damn fine point, I must say. Damn fine.
Technically, it should be B.G. for "Before Guardia", since the kingdom of Guardia started in 0 A.D., or you could still do B.C. and have it stand for "Before Civilization" or something like that. A.D. is still Anno Domini, though.
~.C.S.~
-
It's unclear what role religion has in the Chrono Universe. There's the dating system, and then the Cathedral and nuns in the Middle Ages, but that's about it...
It is true that Guardia was formed in 1 AD or whatever, so the datying system might be based around that, and writers/translators were too lazy to come up with alternatives to BC and AD or they just didn't care.
-
I don't think the writers we lazy so much as they wanted the gamer to associate 600 A.D. in Crono's world with 600 A.D. in ours. By labelling the years "B.C." or "A.D." the gamers are consciously contrasting the two universes. As an exmple, add 1500, say, to each of Chrono Trigger's years. Wouldn't it seem silly to have the "middle ages" in the year 2100? And doesn't having an apocalypse in 1999 beat having one in 3499?
-
Well the cathedral was filled with Mystic and the other one was a shrine for Fiona nothing real religious (except for the mystics praying Magus).
but it is kinda wierd seeing Gate and telepod in 1000 AD if it was labelled AD to comapore it with 1000 AD here where no such thing were even imagined then.
-
I just think SE were too lazy and they just used the B.C and A.D from our real world instead of having to think of a year thing. Here are my ideas:
B.G: Before Guardia...as was said before btw
A.E: After Establishment...basically means after Guardia waz formed.
This whole thing basically says that Guardia are keeping recored of time.
-
I think Chrono Trigger has a religion based on Christianity, but if we were to speak of the "christ" then Crono would indeed be the Christ. But B.C. would definately be B.G. as stated, because Guardia was established in 0 A.D.
-
Well, Anno Domini could work... The Year of our Lord, but the Lord in Question is the King of Guardia? Though for BC I have no idea.
-
There's a thread on this somewhere...although it got somewhat derailed.
-
is it here, because I can't find it, if you know any detail could you point the good argument that went out of it?
B C -> Before Castle (Guardia) ? ahah!
-
Yeah, there was a thread, but it got derailed into a large and tiresome religion argument.
At least symbolically, A.D. and B.C. can stand for nothing other than what we use it for. The support for this line of reasoning comes primarily from etymological dissection of the script (references to a monotheistic God, etc.), the unedited Heaven element (Lightning in the American version, altered due to Nintendo's censorship) as well as something no one seemed to notice but is unreasonably prominent, which means a bunch of people need to see an eye doctor; the GIANT OMFG IMPOSSIBLE TO MISS pair of crosses on the doors of Manoria Cathedral in the PSX ending with Crono and Marle getting married. The "Real World Influences" article is in error where it states that no crosses are present in the series, but so many other things go on here that it's a comparatively insignificant detail. As someone on Chronicles pointed out, this may not in fact be Christianity as we know it, but rather a sort of clone of Christianity, such as the Diablo universe's religion of Zakarum; as one would expect from such a title, the story is situated around angels, demons, and thoroughly Western religious concepts. The Church of Zakarum uses a gothic cross as its symbol and preaches the Visions of Akarat, the human incarnation of the Light (*coughJesusclonecough*). Several of the obtainable pieces of Guardian armor and weaponry are distinctly Roman in appearance, as well, not to mention the image on their gold coins (extracted from the CT manual) -- unmistakably that of a Roman centurion.
In my experience with the subject, people seem to get pissed off at it because they assume that if A.D. and B.C. actually mean Anno Domini and Before Christ, then Christianity is fact in Chrono; this is a highly fallacious leap of logic often perpetrated by those who for one reason or another dislike Christianity, failing to realize the abundance of other religious influences in the series. SquareEnix resides in Japan, after all, and in Japan less than 1% of the population is Christian; most are Buddhists, and several Eastern concepts, such as a living world, are present in the series, as well as several other Square games, most notably Final Fantasy VII. Indeed, the contemporary B.C. & A.D. approach to Chrono would be flawless save for that statistic. Even animes with decidedly Christian content, such as Neon Genesis Evangelion, are not worked on by Christians; Hideaki Anno, the mastermind behind Eva, stated that none of the staff who worked on it were Christian. Yet the series is replete with Christian imagery, including the Angels, Adam and Lilith, the Instrumentality Project, and the infamous cross-shaped explosions ensuing from Angel missiles, as well as the souls in End of Evangelion. Coincidentally, the artistic-looking diagram shown in Eva's intro sequence is that of the Sephirotic System, aka the Tree of Life in Jewish Kabbalistic tradition.
If you're thinking "OMFG SEPHIROTH" you're right. Interestingly, I learned that before I ever actually played FF7.
In any case, we use this dating system in the real world, and a good many people don't think it's anything vaguely approaching factual; this has a high probability of being the case on Crono's Earth. Why people sometimes fail to see this is puzzling.
As far as the writers being lazy, I highly doubt this, considering they put forth the time and effort to work out the main storyline.
-
Horii (Dragon Quest) and Toriyama (Dragon Ball) are one of the guys who created Chrono Trigger. I don't know what calendar they use in Dragon Quest, but the atmosphere is clearly inspired of Western Middle Age and Christianity and stuff (churches, crosses, priests, etc.).
The Dragon Ball series does use the A.D./B.C. calendar anyway. So maybe it comes from that (the money in CT was called Zeni in the Japanese version, Zeni being the money used in DB).
-
Horii (Dragon Quest) and Toriyama (Dragon Ball) are one of the guys who created Chrono Trigger. I don't know what calendar they use in Dragon Quest, but the atmosphere is clearly inspired of Western Middle Age and Christianity and stuff (churches, crosses, priests, etc.).
The Dragon Ball series does use the A.D./B.C. calendar anyway. So maybe it comes from that (the money in CT was called Zeni in the Japanese version, Zeni being the money used in DB).
Correct me if im wrong Chrono, but I was pretty sure that is was just Zen in DB.
But I am known to make mistakes... :wink:
~LC
-
Zeni/Zenny/Any other spelling of it is used in quite a few games. Megaman Battle Network comes to mind. I'd assume that either A.D./B.C. would stand for something different, or, maybe, there was a religion, just not quite as large as religion is here.
-
I don't think the writers we lazy so much as they wanted the gamer to associate 600 A.D. in Crono's world with 600 A.D. in ours. By labelling the years "B.C." or "A.D." the gamers are consciously contrasting the two universes. As an exmple, add 1500, say, to each of Chrono Trigger's years. Wouldn't it seem silly to have the "middle ages" in the year 2100? And doesn't having an apocalypse in 1999 beat having one in 3499?
I should think they got Lavos to awaken in 1999 beacuse it was said that the world would end in 1999. Another link to the real world, if you will. Crono exists in 1000 AD for two reasons:
A. Crono had to exist in the time before the Day of Lavos.
B. The Millenial Fair had to take place, so Marle and Crono can meet.
-
As far as the writers being lazy, I highly doubt this, considering they put forth the time and effort to work out the main storyline.
Im not saying they're real lazy, they just kept the BC and AD thing instead of creating new ones because they relate to time and time travel.
Though I still think they should have thought of something...
~LC
-
Legend got an account here! w00t!
I think it's better for the storyline if they leave it as B.C. and A.D. -- it adds to the emotional impact. If some other random planet gets destroyed, we're not liable to care that much (think Krypton), but they're talking about us. Us and our entire way of life potentially getting destroyed by what turns out to be the very thing that's responsible for it. I am your father, indeed.
-
Legend got an account here! w00t!
I think it's better for the storyline if they leave it as B.C. and A.D. -- it adds to the emotional impact. If some other random planet gets destroyed, we're not liable to care that much (think Krypton), but they're talking about us. Us and our entire way of life potentially getting destroyed by what turns out to be the very thing that's responsible for it. I am your father, indeed.
Lol the game got out in 1995 and Lavos hit in 1999 this leave us not much time to dig up some nuclear-proof basement
-
Exactly. I can only imagine what would have happened if they'd released it a couple of years later, in the middle of the Y2K hysteria.
-
What would have happened had we never had AD or BC as year markers? I think the world would be in total chaos when it comes to time, but then again, people are rather smart and could have come up with something. What year would it be if we didnt have BC or AD.
-
Ummm... a really big number?
-
Well, the Christian calendar was worked out a few hundred years after Christ's death by Emperor Constantine, the guy who made Christianity the Roman national religion. Before that, the Jews and Egyptians had calendars of their own, as well as probably the Chinese.
-
I don't think the Chinese follow the christian calendar. At least not traditionally anyway.
-
Well, the Christian calendar was worked out a few hundred years after Christ's death by Emperor Constantine, the guy who made Christianity the Roman national religion. Before that, the Jews and Egyptians had calendars of their own, as well as probably the Chinese.
hum I think you kmissed that part
it's wierd they made Guardia on 0 AD and we cna see there is a huge link but they didn't come up with that and use our, maybe translation?
-
I ment currently.
Most empires do have a calender after all.
-
I remember learning that some Asian Nations don't use the Gregorian Calendar, but do in certain things, which kinda confused me and kinda didn't but yeah.
What really gets me is, did the greeks really label they're things as 574 B.C or whatever, did they use years? That confuses me so much, and causes me to explode. Also, closer to time of A.D. did we (Europe) use A.D. immediatley after Anno Domini's establishment. I'm really in the state of Double You-Tee-Eff right now.
-
What really gets me is, did the greeks really label they're things as 574 B.C or whatever, did they use years?
are you saying that the greek would have labeled something 574 years before christ, 574 years before christ, if so they could have supoer-psychic power, but I don,t think so but I think they had a calender and I think they labelled their things with theire calendar
-
Yeah the Greeks had their own calendar.
-
Buts so amazing how technology can speculate these things.
-
Legend got an account here! w00t!
Hehe, it's good to see you too, man.
I think it's better for the storyline if they leave it as B.C. and A.D. -- it adds to the emotional impact. If some other random planet gets destroyed, we're not liable to care that much (think Krypton), but they're talking about us. Us and our entire way of life potentially getting destroyed by what turns out to be the very thing that's responsible for it. I am your father, indeed.
Yeah, I agree with that. The thing with CT (And CC, for that matter) is that the themes of the games were made to be emotional. If you lost to Lavos, you see the Planet dying and turning bleak. But then you beat him, and see it didn't turn bleak. And it somehow makes you feel happy: You saved that planet! You saved Earth! Though it dosen't exist, it touches you at some point. And the ending in CC is quite emotional, too: No one is useless, and though there might be one person to change everything, he woulden't exist without everyone and everything that came before him. That person could be anyone, it could be you, it could be me, it could be anyone of us, and anyone who isn't one of the guys (And gals, hopefully) who are members of the Compendium.
Everything exists for that one moment. All so that the universe can evolve into the next dimension... Does that make us all just pawns? Are each of our short lives nothing but a cheap sacrifice just so the one chosen life-form can be born? No. That is not the case! Each and every one of us has a chance of becoming that one chosen life-form
which inseminates a planet. Yes, it could be "you"...
-
I just thought about something strange. In the series, "A.D." basically means "after the creation of Guardia", but why didn't people (especially Porre and El Nido) change calendar after the Fall of Guardia? Even Chronopolis' "Central Regime" faraway in the future still uses the Guardia calendar.
-
I guess they just stayed with tradition...
~LC, racking his brains out trying to think of an answer!
-
Maybe Guardia was the very first modern kingdom to rise, thus everyone use it's calendar? Like most countries in our world use the Roman calendar.
-
What Legend said is most likely right!
P.S. we r both dragoons now!
~LC
-
I just thought about something strange. In the series, "A.D." basically means "after the creation of Guardia", but why didn't people (especially Porre and El Nido) change calendar after the Fall of Guardia? Even Chronopolis' "Central Regime" faraway in the future still uses the Guardia calendar.
Well we still use AD and it's been 2005 years and it would be really wierd to see that,
You see chronopolis has be taken in 7,600 BC but because a groupe of kid from 1000 AD destroyed lavos in 996 AFG*
*AFG standign for after the fall of Guardia
it would be really wierd so they kept the old calendar
-
In fact, it would be more to the effect on 994 After the fall of Guardia. Guardia falls in 1005 AD.
-
Whatever, lets just say saying anything else after the fall of Guardia would be really wierd.
-
mais they could jsut remove the BC thing and put BFG
65,000,000,000 BC ---> 65,000,001,005 BFG
-
But Zeal must have had their own calendar (obvious even if it's not mentioned in the game) and people did change calendar when Guardia was founded. So why didn't Porre create their own one? They could have done year 1,006 after Guardia = year 1 after the Porrean Empire (or something).
-
Maybe they did, but like anyone who wasn't under Porre's grasp gave a damn.
-
El Nido is a colony of Porre, they should use it then.
-
I'm not sure but maybe everyone using the Guardia calendar are native (chronopolis people) so they weren't using the porre calendar
-
The thing is, as Hadriel has so astutely pointed out, there was a Christ in the Chrono world, and it was most certainly not Crono (I, for one, fail to see the connection. So he gave his life for his friends. Big deal. That's no different than a hundred thousand other such people throughout all of history. Say, for example, the one guy in the 1500s that, when the enemy encircled his company with spears, he charged them, and drove as many of them into him as he could, so that the others could escape. But that doesn't make him a Christ-like figure, does it? People see the self-sacrifice, and think that is all that Christ did. Well, unless Crono actually took the sins of all the world upon himself and, through his death, destroyed and made atonement for them, he has no similarity to Christ.) Anyway, Hadriel has said before that the doors to the cathedral (which itself is a uniquely Christian building) has crosses on its wall in the ending. Now, a cross is an ancient thing, but it is a symbol of death and suffering. To be used on such a holy place requires the crucifixion, and thus can Anno Domini and Before Christ be used.
Now, there are those that would maintain that it is since the founding of Guardia. But could it not be that the two years roughly coincide? Or, more likely, that people simply forgot the exact year of founding, and for simplicity made it coincide with that of Christ's birth (itself a mistake, since Christ was born in 4BC, I think - the one who measured the years made a mistake.) It's happened time and again. Rome was said to have existed from 753BC, I think it is, but realistically, there were settlements on the Palantine Hill in the 800s BC, and only myth dictates that year as the founding of Rome. Likewise with Guardia: after 1000 years, the exact year is almost irrelevant. Thus when at the fair they say it's 1000 years old... it might not be historically accurate, but it follows whatever legend there is concerning the founding. The point is, though, many people seem to use that measuring system, and it strikes me that the founding of Guardia is not universially monumental enough to be in such widespread use.
As for the system changing... well, if it is not the founding of Guardia, then Porre needn't change it. In the west, I think it has only changed a few times in 'recent' years (ie. since Rome). They measured since the rise of Rome until a relatively late time, then after went with since the birth of Jesus.
-
El Nido is a colony of Porre, they should use it then.
Not in Another World, it isn't.
In the Dead Sea, go to the computer with Lithosphere Report 27. Norris seemes to say AD quite a few times, and dosen't show any signs of objection to it.
-
Okay then, maybe whatever happened during the founding of Guardia was also important to Porre, so they kept the calendar.
-
The Gregorian Calendar was a modernized version of the original Roman Calendar. When Rome conquered lands, they began to adjust to this. Spain and Portugal, France, Northern Italy, Greece and other countries, later, in the 15th century, discovered new lands, Bringing their customs to these lands, they continued the use of this calendar. Portugal, which spread to the Far East FIRST, granted its colonies this calendar. And that is why today, many countries use the Gregorian Calendar.
-
The Gregorian Calendar was a modernized version of the original Roman Calendar. When Rome conquered lands, they began to adjust to this. Spain and Portugal, France, Northern Italy, Greece and other countries, later, in the 15th century, discovered new lands, Bringing their customs to these lands, they continued the use of this calendar. Portugal, which spread to the Far East FIRST, granted its colonies this calendar. And that is why today, many countries use the Gregorian Calendar.
True, but the calendar does not have much bearing on the system by which years are counted. Our months are certainly based on the old Roman (September for the 'seventh' month, October the 'eighth', November the 'ninth', and December the 'tenth', before those two Julius Caesar and Caesar Agustus decided to have their own months and mess it up. Oh, and January after Janus, too.) Anyway, I think the world 'calendar' was misused, and it should have been 'system of years'. No-one has disproven me yet, either.
-
True it wasn't about calendar, it was about years.
-
It wouldn't be necessary that they had a Christ. Crono's planet might just have their own cross-based religion. Look at Zelda's games. Obviously there aren't "christians" there, but the the cross, along hyrule's history, appears, and becomes an important religious symbol.
Also, even though it has the name of "cathedral" it isn't actually a "christian cathedral" since the plant is not a latin cross.
An interesting question, though, would be: what happened to this religion? why did they lose the cathedral they have in the most important kingdom of the world?
-
Yeah, many cultures around the world use crosses and forms of crosses that do not signify Christ in any real way. The swastika for example traces its beginnings to a simple cross.
-
yeah. Right now i am in Kyoto, and in the city map, they symbolize shinto temples (i think) with swasticas.
-
I was goin' to say nothin' but.... i don't really understand what u gusy want to know ... but... well HAHAHAHA(what am i sayin' ?!) well i'm from Brazil ..so we speak a kind of portuguese .... you will find like Portuguese(Brazil) but ! ... here we say Antes de Cristo A.C.(Before Christ, B.C.) and Depois de Cristo D.C.(After Christ, A.C.) .... that's all ... hahahaha :oops:
-
It wouldn't be necessary that they had a Christ. Crono's planet might just have their own cross-based religion. Look at Zelda's games. Obviously there aren't "christians" there, but the the cross, along hyrule's history, appears, and becomes an important religious symbol.
Also, even though it has the name of "cathedral" it isn't actually a "christian cathedral" since the plant is not a latin cross.
An interesting question, though, would be: what happened to this religion? why did they lose the cathedral they have in the most important kingdom of the world?
It's necessary that they have some Christ-like religious figure on Crono's Earth. I mentioned Zakarum earlier; if bona fide Christianity isn't present on Crono's Earth, something like Zakarum would have to be there to take its place. The problem with saying a cross can signify anything is the type of cross depicted; it's clearly very gothic in design.
As for Zelda, it isn't exactly a priori that there is no Christianity therein. In fact, it's quite the opposite. First, the games repeatedly state through etymological dissection that Hyrule is here on Earth, though at an indeterminate time period. The Ocarina of Time manga states that Hyrule itself is a planet, but this has been repeatedly debunked by higher sources of Zelda canon (i.e. the Nintendo-published game guidebooks and the games themselves.) If one takes a literal view of Hylian history, the original two Zelda games can take place no earlier than the early 300s A.D., the date of the Edict of Milan which converted Christianity into the Roman national religion, and likely took place several hundred years later after Christianity had the opportunity to proselytize the various nations of the world; this is obvious due to Link's original shield. The only problem with that is the large amount of hyperbole present in Hylian chronology; it's called the Legend of Zelda, not the Complete Accurate History Textbook of Zelda, which would suck anyway. In some ways, the Triforce itself is a Christian clone religion, even though that sigil was drawn from Shintoism; it draws upon many of the same a priori assumptions about the universe (e.g. God created it, there are definite lines of good and evil). That doesn't even go into the copious amount of symbolism drawn from the Abrahamic faiths. Beside Link's shield, there is a cross in Zelda II designed to reveal invisible enemies. If one wants to seek an alternative route than items and dismiss them as gameplay mechanics, the Flood depicted in The Wind Waker is an obvious reference to the Biblical Great Flood, and the presence of three Creators refers to the Christian concept of the Trinity, though some have said it can also refer to the three highest Hindu gods, Brahma, Shiva, and Vishnu. However, the latter is unlikely, seeing as Hyrule is repeatedly cast in a distinctly European medieval fantasy setting similar to that of the Arthurian legend and complete with many of the hallmarks of epics of the Western tradition; a special sword, the protagonist's uncertain origin, a definite villain, a "journey to the underworld," and a massive, climactic final battle. Oh, and the special effects. You can't really have an epic without the FX. The Fire Temple music and the Mirror Shield's crest in the original version of Ocarina are also noteworthy; both originate from Islam. In version 1.01 of the game, Nintendo changed the music for fear of both lawsuits and actual physical harm, even though Ocarina was released in November of 1998, almost three years before the attacks on the World Trade Center. In the OOT Master Quest released for GameCube, they replaced the Mirror Shield's sigil, as well; this was of course released well after 9/11. One might even accuse the Zelda mythos of being unnecessarily Christian; Ganondorf Dragmire was originally a desert-dweller, and perceived his quest for the Triforce to be for the aid of his people, no matter how many people he had to kill. If something like the Triforce doesn't sound like Osama bin Laden's wet dream, nothing does. The only truly Eastern concept in Zelda is the balance required to wield the True Force; balance is a key concept of Buddhism and Taoism, and also the root for much of the Jedi mythology. In fact, the only games more rife with Western theology than Zelda that I know of are the Diablo and Halo series, and both of those are produced by Western companies, Blizzard and Bungie. Blizzard in particular seems fond of those motifs; no one can honestly say that Warcraft doesn't rip off (or I guess pay homage to) Tolkien. Xenogears seemingly goes out of its way to bash said theology, so that doesn't exactly count.
In short, the fact is that some form of Christianity is present in Chrono, for one reason or another. Most likely, the reason is atmospheric credibility; the game is obviously not intended to evangelize. One could even say that, like in Xenogears, it's there to be bashed; if Lavos doesn't qualify as blasphemy by Western religious standards, nothing does.
-
In short, the fact is that some form of Christianity is present in Chrono, for one reason or another. Most likely, the reason is atmospheric credibility; the game is obviously not intended to evangelize. One could even say that, like in Xenogears, it's there to be bashed; if Lavos doesn't qualify as blasphemy by Western religious standards, nothing does.
Blasphemy? How so? He may still be seen as an echo of the Deceiver and Accuser, you know. There are references to war in heaven, with the Accuser being cast to the earth. Perhaps Lavos is this, then: the devil cast into the world, like Melkor was to Tolkien. And even so, he sets himself up as a god, which I think is one of the primary attributes constituting a dark lord.
Now, I agree with Hadriel on this matter. The Cross as it is shown is plainly the sort upon which people were crucified, thus - unless one wishes to invent a parallel story, to which I would call up Occam's Razor - Christ did exist in that world.
-
Well, right now i remember an important ancient religion whose symbol was a cross: the monotheistic adoration to Aton (the Sun) that the egyptian Pharaoh (the heretic pharaoh lol) Akhen-Aton tried to impose. It was the cross of life: it existed as a powerful religious symbol before, but the monotheists made it their central symbol.
-
Well, right now i remember an important ancient religion whose symbol was a cross: the monotheistic adoration to Aton (the Sun) that the egyptian Pharaoh (the heretic pharaoh lol) Akhen-Aton tried to impose. It was the cross of life: it existed as a powerful religious symbol before, but the monotheists made it their central symbol.
I was under the impression that the symbol of life was an ankh, which is only a semi-cross. And as far as the central symbol, would that not have been simply the sun-disc? Akhenaten was not heretical, though, because as Pharaoh he had the last say in religious matters: he ordered a new capital to be built at Amarna, and it was done. Of course, his death reversed matters - his young son Tutankhamun was easily influenced by the disgruntled priests - but I think he saw it as worth a try. It didn't help foreign relations, though. He spent so much time developing his religion, his allies the Mittani were fully overcome by the Hittites, who would later become a major rival to Egypt, culminating in the grand battle at Qadesh. As a side note, another ruler that attempted to bring forward a monotheistic religion was Nabonius, son of famed Nebuchadrezzar, who was king of the Babylonian empire in the early half of the 500s BC. He attempted to bring about the worship of the moon-god Sin, but I suppose his plans never went anywhere: the Medes and Persians of Darius the Great invaded, and down fell Babylon the great.
But this aside, the Cross as its used, and in that form, is still a unique symbol. Aside from Christianity, it is a symbol of suffering and death. To have it used in such a way on a church would take some great event (or perhaps Guardia is just a cult of death-worshippers?) Moreover, a few other factors, such as the existance of Latin, tie together to make the historical events surrounding AD/BC not unlikely.
-
There's actually somewhat of a movement among... um... well I guess its starting with historians mostly. But its to change the reilgious implications of Bc/AD to BCE/CE, which is "Before Common Era" and "Common Era".
And I believe BC/AD was used just to show somewhat of a parallel to our own time, to keep it familiar to us.
-
There's actually somewhat of a movement among... um... well I guess its starting with historians mostly. But its to change the reilgious implications of Bc/AD to BCE/CE, which is "Before Common Era" and "Common Era".
I find that to be very nearly the stupidest thing ever. Why rename the eras if Jesus is STILL the person/event which separates the two great epochs of history?
The only way to de-Christianize the calender is to invent an entirely new calendar based upon new criteria.
But... why de-Christianize the calendar, anyway? It's perfectly fine as it is, and I say that as a decidedly non-religious person.
OdF
-
Hey, I didn't make it up. But you know how picky people today are, separate church and state completly, you can't wear an X-Mas shirt in apublic school, crap like that. But I completly agree with you on the point that its really just renaming two "time periods" that are still determined by the birth of Jesus (disregarding the fact that evidence says he was really born in 3 or 4 AD)
-
Thread necromancy! Thread necromancy!
Well, I live in the Bible Belt, so they're not going to shut down people who want to wear crosses to school or paint many variations of JESUS RULZ in 1337speak all over their cars. Other people might, but a lot of them are social outcasts; I remember one time about four years ago that for some reason I was wearing a T-shirt with some verse about the Holy Spirit on it, and some goth guy behind me said "hey, the Spirit's for gay people." The me from four years ago thought "poor guy." The me from today thinks "what a stupid jerkoff." Sure, he has the right to express his opinion and generally be offensive, but judging from his overall tone he was one of those counter-culture types. If you're going to object to any given religion, at least find a halfway decent reason for it. Song lyrics by whiny goth bands don't count.
-
Is there such thing as whiny goth? I think that's more emo you mean...goths are normally too full of shit to bother coming out of their dark holes to actually converse and interact w/people on any fundamental level.
And, also, I think gay people are very spiritual! :lol: [/couldntresist]
-
Emo is like the new goth, except that goths are still around which makes it even more unbearable. A lot of the girls I know listen to emo music, and I keep on pleading with them to change it to something that doesn't injure my delicate sensibilities (i.e. heavy metal).
-
I always see emo kids as the goth outcasts...the kids who weren't even cool enough for the goths to hang out with...which, of course, just makes them cry that much more, yeah? They can take their Dashboard & shove it 8)
>_>
<_<
>_>
-
emo music is completely diferent to goth music :? , goth music contains a few random people droaning in a low pitched mumble while random instruments are playing randomly in the background, emo contains the opposite (kinda).
now i am anti - religion, but "hey, the Spirit's for gay people." is not the way to present your case, you can tell this guy had a poor education.
-
anti-religion? I don't know if I've ever heard anything expressed that way...
-
aah well thats because im probably the only person to express it that way, it has a diferent meaning to non-religous,
non-religous=a person who, although doesnt believe in a religion (so to speak), does not appose the religion or its followers, but merely see's them as another view on the world of which they do not wholly believe but you just never know they may be right.
anti-religous=a person who openly or otherwise dislikes the whole idea of religion and dismisses followers of that religion as weakminded fools, with no chance in hell of ever believing what that religion stands for, could ever be try.
now im not saying i take it to the extreme i wrote it in, but basically you see the diference.
-
There shouldn't be any huge reason for Porre to change the calandar, as far as I'm concerned. Just because an empire falls, donesn't mean you gotta change the system. The roman empire fell how long ago? It was like 40 A.D., right? No one seemed too eager to change it.
-
There shouldn't be any huge reason for Porre to change the calandar, as far as I'm concerned. Just because an empire falls, donesn't mean you gotta change the system. The roman empire fell how long ago? It was like 40 A.D., right? No one seemed too eager to change it.
Change what? Why would the fall of (half of) the Roman Empire make people change the Christian calendar? That's it, it's the Christian calendar not the Roman calendar. In the Chrono series on the other hand, the calendar used is the Guardian calendar, based on the foundation of the kingdom not the birth of some spiritual dude as far as we know.
-
Historically, all calendars are made retroactively. Conquering empires do not celebrate their victory by immediately declaring that "This is Year 1." At least not typically. Rather, some historian a few centuries later will retroactively rename the year of victory as Year 1, and, over time, that new dating convention will gain popularity and become standard.
Anyway, this is all kind of a moot point, since the inscription on the statue in Chronopolis demonstrates that the Guardia calendar remains in place even way out in 2400 AD, and anything beyond that point is beyond our knowing (at least so far).
OdF
-
There shouldn't be any huge reason for Porre to change the calandar, as far as I'm concerned. Just because an empire falls, donesn't mean you gotta change the system. The roman empire fell how long ago? It was like 40 A.D., right? No one seemed too eager to change it.
*slaps forehead* Gotta love our education system...
The Roman Empire did not fall in 40 AD. It was just getting to the good part around then.
When the Roman Empire fell depends on what you see as the "fall." Several smaller empires broke away circa 260 AD, but were recovered around 290. However, the Roman government split around then into the Eastern and Western empires. This could be called the fall of the empire.
Wait just a few years to 359 AD, and you could also call when the Emperor Constantine moved the entire Roman government from Rome to his new city of Constantinople in modern Turkey the "fall of the Roman Empire."
Or, if you want to just count when the last Emperor fell, that wouldn't be until 1453 AD, although the empire at that point had become known as the Byzantine Empire.
And, to cap all this off, the Romans didn't even use the BC/AD system. They counted from the founding of Rome. Year 1 ad urbe condita (Year 1 since the founding of the City) was about the year 753 BC according to their legends. The dating system was changed by a bunch of monks sometime during the Renaissance.
-
Btw, after the French Revolution, the French did change the roman-christian calendar for a new one, called "revolutionary". It had such a big success, and was so widely used among people that noone remembered about it when Napoleon had it removed.
-
Yeah, I'm sure that went over about as well as metric time did. I mean, it was hard enough when Pope Gregory removed something like 17 days from one year to sync back up with the solar calendar (which not everyone did, btw), but to completely scrap a calendar? Start renumbering years, yes. Mess with the calendar itself? Not likely to be too successful there.
-
Peoples, why are we saying 'calendar'? This discussion is regarding the system of years, not about the ordering of months and days, or am I mistaken? For the calendar we use it, if I am not mistaken, very much based upon that of the Romans. After all, we have a month named for Janus, the last four named for the numbers seven, eight, nine, and ten, and two for Emperors, July and August. I think 'system of years' is a better term.
There shouldn't be any huge reason for Porre to change the calandar, as far as I'm concerned. Just because an empire falls, donesn't mean you gotta change the system. The roman empire fell how long ago? It was like 40 A.D., right? No one seemed too eager to change it.
As someone has already said, Rome did not fall in 40AD. In fact, it was nearing the height of its power in those years. I can't rightly remember, but I do think that 40AD was during the reign of Cladius, who was a good emperor following on the heels of the mad Caligula (and destined to be succeeded by the nearly as mad Nero, who was the last of the Julio-Claudians.) After that, we have the Flavians, which include Vespasian, Titus, and Domitian. Their reign lasts in the the early 100s. From then to the year 182 we have the Antonines, most well known being the conquerer Trajan, Hadrian, and the last two: Marcus Arelius and Commodus (who reigned 168-180 and 180-192 respectively.) After this there was some discord, with the military attempting to insert their own emperors, which I think eventually happened, as the next group were named the Severans. These lasted until the 200s, when there was a period of great disarray in the Empire. Finally order was restored under the Ilyrian emperors, the last of whom was wicked Diocletion. In the early ears of 300 (304, I think) a general named Constantine arose to rule the Empire, and it became Christian. But the fall could not be averted for long, and the last of the western emperors, Romulus Agustus, abdicated in the mid-late 400s to the barbarian king Odovacar - and, as Aitrus said, the eastern, Byzantinian empire, lasted until nearly 1500.
-
Just for clarification, this quote wasn't by me. (I for my part knew roughly about those events that's why I spoke about the fall of 'half the' empire).
-
Ah, curses. Sorry. Messed up in fixing up the quote. It's all better now.
-
I read somewhere that the Byzantines believed that the world because September 1st 5509 B.C., what role do you think this plays in the Chrono world? (Sorry to revive such an old thread lol)
-
CHRONOS AD BC is different from ours becae they have our technology in 1000AD
-
...yes, and one may even say more advanced in some areas.
B.C & A.D led me to believe that there was a Christ or messiah in the Chronoverse. God had good intentions of letting Lavos land. I mean look, we came in contact with the Frozen Flame, we were smarter and powerful, but with great power comes great responsibility, and Zeal abused that power and suffered its ultimate fate. In the future, nation didn't rise against nation though, except for Porre on Guardia. However, I don't recall anything ever mentioning what before and after 0 was...
-
...yes, and one may even say more advanced in some areas.
B.C & A.D led me to believe that there was a Christ or messiah in the Chronoverse. God had good intentions of letting Lavos land. I mean look, we came in contact with the Frozen Flame, we were smarter and powerful, but with great power comes great responsibility, and Zeal abused that power and suffered its ultimate fate. In the future, nation didn't rise against nation though, except for Porre on Guardia. However, I don't recall anything ever mentioning what before and after 0 was...
"0 AD" most probably didn't exist, because the zero wasn't invented yet (that's the case in the real world). 1 AD is stated to be the year when the kingdom of Guardia was founded. The Millenial Fair is the kingdom's millenial fair.
-
So does that mean Guardia was founded by Jesus? Does that make the royal family the Holy Grail and thus the Da Vinci Code is true in Chronoverse? That'd rule.
-
CHRONOS AD BC is different from ours becae they have our technology in 1000AD
Then explain to me the crosses on the cathedral, and the fact that they use Latin phrases such as Angellus Errare - not to mention the fact that Cathedral is a Greek word, and demands the existance of a Bishop. Furthermore, what else would Anno Domini mean? I tend to try and reconcile this much as Hadriel does, with the real world. The Latin demands Rome, and that opens a whole lot of possibilities. You see, it never gives any information on what we know of as written history up until the year 600 or so. One could say, even, that the Chronoverse exists on a certain parallel timeline, where everything stays in relative accord (or the differences, such as Lavos, play no major part in changing the empires of the ancient and Classical times.) However, it seems, that after the fall of Rome there is a divergance. The Mystics come out of somewhere, and hence we have the Chrono world. Since things have already been changed, this ripple effect can make it possible that the year 1000 has higher technology.
In the end, I don't see why AD or BC or any different, or what they'd be. Somebody said that'd mean there might have been a messaiah of sorts in the Chrono world, but that doesn't fit, either. They're working on the assumption then that AD and BC are referring to a certain date revolving around such a figure. But what then do they mean? AD - in the year of our Lord. Latin. BC - Before Christ. Christ is Khristos. Greek. Latin and Greek. Hmmm...
About the whole Guardia and year 0 thing... that could just be a coincidental date. Why couldn't it have been founded in the year 0? Maybe it was a Roman colony to begin with, a general of Octavian Caesar Agustus, maybe.
Okay, that's reading far too much into it, I know. Just my own theories on the matter. Truthfully, they didn't worry about that in Chrono - that sort of not worrying about accuracy is its style. AD and BC are used merely because they're familiar. Latin is used because it sounds old and formal, Greek because it sounds scientific. The years 0 and 1000? They're good marks. The real importance, I know, isn't what they are, but the ideas they represent.
-
"0 AD" most probably didn't exist, because the zero wasn't invented yet (that's the case in the real world). 1 AD is stated to be the year when the kingdom of Guardia was founded. The Millenial Fair is the kingdom's millenial fair.
Very true.
So does that mean Guardia was founded by Jesus? Does that make the royal family the Holy Grail and thus the Da Vinci Code is true in Chronoverse? That'd rule.
Makes you wonder. I wouldn't be surprised if Nu's were some type of Angel or something along that line.
And Daniel Krispin, you have some really good stuff to say there!
-
"0 AD" most probably didn't exist, because the zero wasn't invented yet (that's the case in the real world). 1 AD is stated to be the year when the kingdom of Guardia was founded. The Millenial Fair is the kingdom's millenial fair.
Very true.
So does that mean Guardia was founded by Jesus? Does that make the royal family the Holy Grail and thus the Da Vinci Code is true in Chronoverse? That'd rule.
Makes you wonder. I wouldn't be surprised if Nu's were some type of Angel or something along that line.
And Daniel Krispin, you have some really good stuff to say there!
Well, in the Chrono world, 'angels' looks like Greek hoplites with wings. So proves the Saints summon.
-
CHRONOS AD BC is different from ours becae they have our technology in 1000AD
Then explain to me the crosses on the cathedral, and the fact that they use Latin phrases such as Angellus Errare - not to mention the fact that Cathedral is a Greek word, and demands the existance of a Bishop. Furthermore, what else would Anno Domini mean? I tend to try and reconcile this much as Hadriel does, with the real world. The Latin demands Rome, and that opens a whole lot of possibilities. You see, it never gives any information on what we know of as written history up until the year 600 or so. One could say, even, that the Chronoverse exists on a certain parallel timeline, where everything stays in relative accord (or the differences, such as Lavos, play no major part in changing the empires of the ancient and Classical times.) However, it seems, that after the fall of Rome there is a divergance. The Mystics come out of somewhere, and hence we have the Chrono world. Since things have already been changed, this ripple effect can make it possible that the year 1000 has higher technology.
In the end, I don't see why AD or BC or any different, or what they'd be. Somebody said that'd mean there might have been a messaiah of sorts in the Chrono world, but that doesn't fit, either. They're working on the assumption then that AD and BC are referring to a certain date revolving around such a figure. But what then do they mean? AD - in the year of our Lord. Latin. BC - Before Christ. Christ is Khristos. Greek. Latin and Greek. Hmmm...
About the whole Guardia and year 0 thing... that could just be a coincidental date. Why couldn't it have been founded in the year 0? Maybe it was a Roman colony to begin with, a general of Octavian Caesar Agustus, maybe.
Okay, that's reading far too much into it, I know. Just my own theories on the matter. Truthfully, they didn't worry about that in Chrono - that sort of not worrying about accuracy is its style. AD and BC are used merely because they're familiar. Latin is used because it sounds old and formal, Greek because it sounds scientific. The years 0 and 1000? They're good marks. The real importance, I know, isn't what they are, but the ideas they represent.
I have to wonder why you consider as more of coincidence in game occurences than correlations with the outside world. Clearly, Guardia being 1000 years old in 1000AD was a deliberate choice. The dominance of Christianity in the western world was not a choice made by anyone, least of all the Japanese developers of Chrono Trigger a milenium after the fact.
-
Well, in the Chrono world, 'angels' looks like Greek hoplites with wings. So proves the Saints summon.
They look like typical Italian Putti (little winged babies) when you use a Revive or a Life spell in CT.
-
Well, in the Chrono world, 'angels' looks like Greek hoplites with wings. So proves the Saints summon.
They look like typical Italian Putti (little winged babies) when you use a Revive or a Life spell in CT.
Well, it never specifically says those are angels, though (but they do look like what we here usually call Cherubim). The only direct references to angels that I can now recall are Angelus Errare, where of course there is no physical representation, and the description of 'Saints', where they say that they are angels.
And in regards to Radical Dreamer... well, I tend to wish there to be a direct correlation with the real world - that is usually the way I think. But I was trying to be realistic, and I think realistically it served as nothing more than sorts of abstract concepts, archetypes of years that the CT writers made use of.
-
i dont think its appropriate for them to use A.D. and B.C. coz they have an entirely new world and the christ event never happened there...i mean duh, mystics in 1999 obviously isnt down to earth thing, and there are no related event that would describe an event responsible for abreviation A.D. nor B.C. at least none that i know of on the game......
-
Would you rather them use BCE and CE?