Chrono Compendium
Zenan Plains - Site Discussion => Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion => Topic started by: Darth Magus on October 29, 2008, 10:52:18 pm
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No, this is not about what happened in 1005 AD (although I will mention that).
This is about the future of the series at large.
I've been thinking about a way to bring back the Chrono Series for years, and eventually I formulated an idea that I would like to share with the Compendium.
Make Chrono the new Final Fantasy.
It goes like this: We have Chrono Trigger, with it's time travel, Lavos, and mutiple endings. We take those three points, and make them the Chocobos and Moogles of Chrono. In other words, make future Chrono games take place on other planets, infect each planet with Lavos, and have our new heroes travel through time to prevent the destruction of the future (or past. After all, what's to stop the protagonist from being born after his/her planet's Day of Lavos?) They could make each game as different as the FFs are by making each story original, and each Lavos different, with hints on the origin of the Lavos species and how the Lavoids work in each game.
Since Square Enix announced that FFXIII would be the Final Fantasy, and they would concentrate on remaking the old games on new consoles, I see no reason why they cannot put their efforts into reviving Chrono in this way. The only thing standing in their way is Masato Kato himself, as he may have plans for Chrono Break that involve our friends Chrono and company or Serge and company. I personally feel they should make a mini-RPG detailing the Fall of Guardia, and make that the 15th ending in a future remake of Chrono Trigger. However, Kato's plans regarding Guardia's future may need to be bigger than an extended ending of CT. Meanwhile, I can still hope.
Discuss.
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Hello 20% of Chrono fanfics! Hell, even one of my own Chrono fanfics is based on this idea...It's kind of an obvious path to take. Since the end of Chrono Trigger (& then after the end of Chrono Cross) people have been saying that the series should go into space after other Lavos on other worlds. Some people don't like the idea of having Lavos (any Lavos) constantly being the final boss, though and I can sort of understand that...
FFXIII isn't going to be the final anything except maybe them deciding making big fuckfest compilations for each new installment might not be the best idea.
I don't think the Fall of Guardia needs to be a game in itself, but a new game can chronicle what happened there, especially if Crono & Marle aren't dead...or maybe if they just make it so you can actually go to Zenan again...>_>
Oh yeah, and I totally pulled that "20%" out of my ass...:lol:
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If Final Fantasy XIII is the last Final Fantasy I'll change my name to Luke Perry.
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If Final Fantasy XIII is the last Final Fantasy I'll change my name to Luke Perry.
Fine, I'll look it up again and either laugh in all your faces, or get laughed at. Let's see.
EDIT: Never Mind (http://www.joystiq.com/2007/04/23/final-fantasy-xiii-series-to-last-ten-years).
Actually it's not confirmation of FFXIV, but it does confirm that Square is not done yet with it's numbered babies.
You may begin the humiliation.
I still think it's a good idea though, and FF can't last forever...
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I'm pretty sure they've at least bought websites for up to 17 or some such...or at least that's what I heard a while back...
And, yes, it can because 1) they don't need any connectivity between the sequels (besides maybe Magic & Chocobos or something), 2) they don't need the same teams behind them, & 3) PEOPLE CONTINUE TO BUY THE FUCK OUT OF THEM!!! It's hard for a series that's really hardly an actual series to lose any sort of popularity...People'll find at least one they really like, latch on to that and hope the series somehow pumps out another one like that again...
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Trust me, even if FF doesn't last forever, it's going to last for quite a while. Look at SE now: they're revamping, re-releasing, and porting older releases, they're adding new installments, sequels, and prequels to some of their releases and a little gaiden here or there, and the best part is that they don't need a formula for success: people just buy these games for whatever reason.
The biggest thing working against more CT installments is the desire to keep the same team working on the project, if we could overlook this aspect then some of the politics keeping this series from growing could be dealt with.
I gotta say that I like the idea of more stories in the series, but wouldn't releasing stories that aren't necessarily connected turn the Chrono series into another FF series? I'd personally like to see them preserve the greatness of this series by keeping some focus on continuity. I mean look at the Mana series--it started out with some great games, but what the hell is it now?
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Yes, Final Fantasy is going to last until the end of time. Like V said, they don't need continuity, and they don't need the same teams working on them. And of course, there's the MONEY MONEY MONEY. We can't forget that. It's so popular and the games are so diverse that people simply buy, and buy, and buy. And buy.
It's an interesting idea, though I think the Chrono universe should put a different spin on it: Continuity. Making each game on some other planet where Lavos has struck is a good idea, though that could get tiresome after a while. I would like games that build and expand on each other, and we keep learning more and more about the universe. Perhaps you could even make one where the main villian isn't Lavos, something else...something interesting. (As much as I like Lavos, one of the things I find annoying about him is that he can't talk. We can never see his goals and views through his perspective. Though that can be a good thing) However, continuity means that, eventually, the series must come to a close...
Hm. It's interesting, I'll say that much. It needs polishing, though. We'll have to see what CT DS has in store for us.
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Hello 20% of Chrono fanfics! Hell, even one of my own Chrono fanfics is based on this idea...It's kind of an obvious path to take. Since the end of Chrono Trigger (& then after the end of Chrono Cross) people have been saying that the series should go into space after other Lavos on other worlds. Some people don't like the idea of having Lavos (any Lavos) constantly being the final boss, though and I can sort of understand that...
FFXIII isn't going to be the final anything except maybe them deciding making big fuckfest compilations for each new installment might not be the best idea.
I don't think the Fall of Guardia needs to be a game in itself, but a new game can chronicle what happened there, especially if Crono & Marle aren't dead...or maybe if they just make it so you can actually go to Zenan again...>_>
Oh yeah, and I totally pulled that "20%" out of my ass...:lol:
Yeah but since Lavos would absorb DNA from another planet. His evolution will be different in every planet. For example if Lavos falls in FF7 world he will absorb mako energy and become invincible. :lol:
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But there should always be an air of mystery around Lavos. I LIKE that they leave him vague; it allows the imagination to run free. Personally I don't want to know much more about Lavos. Maybe the universe, yeah, but not about Lavos/Lavoids.
It's like Cthulhu mythology in Lovecraft's books - keep the monsters shadowy and mysterious.
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I only like the first six FF's anyways...
One thing I don't want to see is the Chrono Series becomign the next FF. The fact that there are key storyline elements that connect the three Chrono games together is a good thing.
btw, even though Radical Dreamers was replaced in the main continuity by CC, it still is a Chrono Game, which is why I said three, not two.
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I only like the first six FF's anyways...
One thing I don't want to see is the Chrono Series becomign the next FF. The fact that there are key storyline elements that connect the three Chrono games together is a good thing.
FFVII was good, but Cloud is emo and should have been dealt with appropriately. VI was the best.
As for the rest of your quote, you all have convinced me that it would be a bad idea. I still think they could use the idea for DQ-style trilogies, but unless they get it perfect, we would get tired of always knowing it's Lavos at the heart of the problem.
On that note, let's say they made a third game to build upon CT and CC, like a DQ-style trilogy, only with more plot connections. Who would be the final boss? Lavos -> Time Devourer -> ???. How do you one-up a being that devours Time and Space itself? And in another trilogy, it could be the same Lavos -> Time Devourer -> ??? scenario, but with different models this time (remember, sprites are extinct). So yeah, it needs to be absolutely perfect, or the whole franchise goes downhill.
Personally, I am the exact opposite of a graphics junkie, having grown up on the Game Boy line rather than any console, so I might not buy these flashy Hi-Def Chrono games anyway, if they ever get made.
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hi-def sprites would be bitchin'.
Did the TD devour space as well? I thought it was just the Time Devourer? Not the Space-Time Devourer...or does one go with the other.
the ??? could be the entity, shown to be a 1337 Nu with mad skillz.
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I agree that topping a time-devouring beast would be tough, but a boss villain doesn't necessarily have to be a destructive monstrosity: anyone with an ulterior motive could function as a good villain for the series. I think we've gotten too used to the idea that a game needs to end with destroying some huge being, perhaps a new installment in the series could be something a little less RPG and a little more James Bond--someone with devious means gets control of something powerful and uses it to their own advantage. Obviously that something powerful would be anything that controls or affects time, and the possibilities with using it to their own advantage are basically endless.
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Well, through RD we know that it doesn't exactly have to be Lavos at end game, yeah? Although, personally I think the origins of the Lavos species might be interesting...I've always been one who's liked to think of them as a world warfare biological weapon gone wrong kind of thing...or maybe it was originally a dying planet's attempt at saving the genetic material of their world (like a Superman origin if Superman didn't suck)...but maybe Boo has a point with the whole mysteriousness of the origin...I just can't help but think of that as being a cop-out...
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What trips me up is how people can think the FF series will end so SOON when it's still obviously going strong. It's brought up with every installment. I remember when FFXII was announced, you had all these people saying, "Oh, this must be the FINAL Final Fantasy!". LOL, not the case. If anything, most interviews with the FF developers seems to state otherwise. I believe one had Kitase stating that he'd love to be involved with FF games up until he dies. Others basically said that as long as there are fans out there wanting FF games, Square will make them.
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What trips me up is how people can think the FF series will end so SOON when it's still obviously going strong.
In my case, it wasn't wishful thinking, I could have sworn Squenix really said that. Probably just a rumor.
And I read one interview with a developer who wondered what to call summons in FF XXVIII (FF28). So whether or not that game actually gets made, the possibilities are endless when it comes to Final Fantasy's eternal existence.
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What trips me up is how people can think the FF series will end so SOON when it's still obviously going strong. It's brought up with every installment. I remember when FFXII was announced, you had all these people saying, "Oh, this must be the FINAL Final Fantasy!". LOL, not the case. If anything, most interviews with the FF developers seems to state otherwise. I believe one had Kitase stating that he'd love to be involved with FF games up until he dies. Others basically said that as long as there are fans out there wanting FF games, Square will make them.
Yeah, go figure they'll actually run it like a business...supply & demand, people!
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based on the large differences in story and gameplay mechanics between trigger and cross alone, its my observation that the SE and related crew wouldn't want to produce another chrono game, let alone a series of them. From some of the personal contribution entries i've read between this site and wikipedia, its a painstaking process to develop compelling story lines with a time theme without inconsistencies and holes.
Now, I'm not a fan of Cross at all, and was really surprised to read about how well received it is, but I'm feeling that additional installments of chrono would succumb to the same fate of the mana-series, simply decay with each installment and perhaps even tarnish the perceptions of the original. From my standpoint, (again from one that didn't like cross) I feel that a sequel will either over-cannon cross, much like cross did to RD, (but on a much deeper scale) esp since I think cross pulled crap out of near nothingness for plot convenience, or they create a new setup, with a new structure on how to work in time-traveling mechanics, and potentially run risk of a direct comparison/competition with the chrono trigger set up, which it will probably lose.
Simply put, why create a complex money-cow that probably won't yield as much milk as an existing breed of money-cows that are much easier to breed?
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From my standpoint, (again from one that didn't like cross) I feel that a sequel will either over-cannon cross, much like cross did to RD
I doubt a new installment would truly retcon Chrono Cross...though I suppose you could see the dimensions merging as a kind of retcon...?
I'm feeling that additional installments of chrono would succumb to the same fate of the mana-series, simply decay with each installment and perhaps even tarnish the perceptions of the original.
I think the only real problem with the Seiken Densetsu/Mana series is when they take it out of its element. When they've kept it in the action/adventure RPG genre, it's thrived. If they can realize that again, the series can get on the upswing again (I'd like to see SD2 & SD3, especially, get remakes of some kind)...Also, I will NEVER understand how wackos think somehow that sequels 'tarnish' the originals in any way. The originals are still always going to be there for you if you happen to like them more...hell, not even remakes can change that fact...That's such malarkey BS that's just in people's heads...
Simply put, why create a complex money-cow that probably won't yield as much milk as an existing breed of money-cows that are much easier to breed?
Because we demand it, that's why. It's not like they can't do both anyways...it's a pretty big company now...>_>
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I doubt a new installment would truly retcon Chrono Cross...though I suppose you could see the dimensions merging as a kind of retcon...?
I think the dimension merge is a self retcon. Having an end situation where nobody involved is going to know that the dimension split in the first place pretty much is like saying "this didn't really happen anyway' One could say that what they did will have an unknown impact on the future, but that can be said about any story that you just up and introduce any character to it. In that regard, I would say that anything that doesn't pertain to this dimension split and/or Serge is essentially admitting that nothing was accomplished that should not have happened anyway.
Also, I will NEVER understand how wackos think somehow that sequels 'tarnish' the originals in any way. The originals are still always going to be there for you if you happen to like them more...hell, not even remakes can change that fact...That's such malarkey BS that's just in people's heads...
When sequels try to explain or give meaning to otherwise loose ends, ambiguous events, or any other mystery , and then give less than satisfactory results, then it certainly can alter perceptions. It's not the same wonder or mystery or hope that it was before. I will say, for me, this is unique to video games and is more of a mechanics issue, and even then my actually liking an original any less is rare, but it still happens.
An example for me is Parasite Eve. I wished that I hadn't played the sequel as it has lessened my view of the first game, I still have alot of praise for numero uno, but not as much with the knowledge of the second one looming over me.
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Having an end situation where nobody involved is going to know that the dimension split in the first place pretty much is like saying "this didn't really happen anyway'...
Wouldn't Schala know?
When sequels try to explain or give meaning to otherwise loose ends, ambiguous events, or any other mystery , and then give less than satisfactory results, then it certainly can alter perceptions. It's not the same wonder or mystery or hope that it was before. I will say, for me, this is unique to video games and is more of a mechanics issue, and even then my actually liking an original any less is rare, but it still happens.
An example for me is Parasite Eve. I wished that I hadn't played the sequel as it has lessened my view of the first game, I still have alot of praise for numero uno, but not as much with the knowledge of the second one looming over me.
See, I just don't see it that way, I guess...Sequels are greatly tied to originals, but many times, they act as separate stories. I could see judging the sequel based on the original, but not the other way around...and even then, it doesn't make much sense. They should just be judged on their own merit as individual stories. One does not change what's in the other...all it can change is your own perception of what the other is...
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I'm with V_Translanka on this one, you'll always have the originals to fall back on: looking back at Mana, my perceptions of SD2 and SD3 are unscathed, even after the nonsense that has been spewed out. But looking at Heroes of Mana or Children of Mana, with SD2 or SD3 in mind, I can't look at them positively.
Radical Dreamers was a bit strange for me, but I haven't let my perception of that game tarnish Chrono Trigger's reputation in my head.
As for sequels ruining series, that's something I always worry about. See, with Final Fantasy, you're rarely playing sequels, but with direct sequels (like Final Fantasy X-2), you have the possibility to tarnish the series (in that case, X-2 would tarnish the X series--not that it's much of a series--as opposed to just tarnishing FFX). But even if Square released a crappy installment in the Chrono series, I'll always have CT and CC to fall back on; it's the reputation of the series that has the possibility of being ruined.
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it's the reputation of the series that has the possibility of being ruined.
Yeah, that certainly makes sense.
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See, I just don't see it that way, I guess...Sequels are greatly tied to originals, but many times, they act as separate stories
and in about 99.9843% of the time, they really are. Let me put this into perspective directly in relation into the Chrono series.
We have the ds gameplay conversion being revealed; spiffy keen. It can share the love with more people. However, once again, they're going to be adding to it, probably to help further justify the slop that is Cross, just like with the playstation release. Pending the success, and meaning, of what they choose to add, does that then change Trigger? Probably not. If its consequential at worst, reviewers will phase it as something like 'it was great, except for that... and so on" its extra, though probably going to be 'canon'. In effect, any bad out of this would, as you say, largely effect just the reputation of the series, and further works, rather than the original.
But, its still the sequel trying to make a change on the original, and one, imo, for the worse. The tip of this is to me, while Trigger had some loops and holes and what not that have great potential for a sequel of events, Cross has snipped that. (but not completed cut.) That lack of 'cannon' potential does effect the story. If the potential means didn't have a weight to the quality of the story, then no one could be success from 'trying to leave things up to the audience.'
So:
Wouldn't Schala know?
I'd rather Schala have not been in that particularly written predicament anyway, as I find the 'how's and 'why's and the 'whatnots' that got her in and out poorly conceived. She'd be better off not knowing because it 'didn't happen.'
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See, I just don't see it that way, I guess...Sequels are greatly tied to originals, but many times, they act as separate stories
and in about 99.9843% of the time, they really are. Let me put this into perspective directly in relation into the Chrono series.
We have the ds gameplay conversion being revealed; spiffy keen. It can share the love with more people. However, once again, they're going to be adding to it, probably to help further justify the slop that is Cross, just like with the playstation release. Pending the success, and meaning, of what they choose to add, does that then change Trigger? Probably not. If its consequential at worst, reviewers will phase it as something like 'it was great, except for that... and so on" its extra, though probably going to be 'canon'. In effect, any bad out of this would, as you say, largely effect just the reputation of the series, and further works, rather than the original.
I don't know if such a comparison will work or not with CTDS since I'm fairly sure there's a "classic mode" or something that allows you to play it largely as the original (idk HOW original, but at least w/o the FMVs)...but to me, an official new translation, at least, was more than necessary.
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The classic mode keeps original game play intact, while scraping the cut scenes. I figure they're sticking the revamped script in regardless of what mode you're playing.
But back to the point here, I understand what Xenterex is saying--when the adaptations of CT are done to make sense and pave the way for Chrono Cross (if they weren't supposed to already) it can seriously fuck the storyline. In that regard, the sequel sort of fucked the original game, to some extent. But for the most part I think the additions (aside from the coliseum) will add to CT's storyline.
If anything, take solace in the fact that Kato is overseeing everything, so we won't get some crappy cop-out like "And then Crono and co. went to Arni and met a man named Wazuki...he seems to be a strange character at best."