Chrono Compendium
Marbule Gallery - Completed Fan Creations => Crimson Echoes => Topic started by: CyberSarkany on August 15, 2006, 04:39:04 pm
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Yep, I got a new job.
Here will be all enemy Modification sorted by location, they will have all stats, Items you can win etc..
(JP) This topic will server as the hub for Cybersnarkany (heir to the masamune), Maelstrom (from the infamouse Level Zero hack), and myself (from the infamous Coliseum hack) to assure that the game is challenging.
Cyber is going to go through and make any comments he feels are necessary whether it is loading a new enemy, adding enemies or even changing enemy stats. Maelstrom will be able to change the stats and I will make any necessary changes to the even code. (/JP)
Beast forest (level in: 1; Level out: 4)
Note: Magus is alone
Enemy 1: Beast; HP: 40; Strength: 8; Speed: 12; Defense: 180; Exp: 5; G: 450; Tech: 5; Elemental Defense: all 4
Boss Enemy: Golem Boss; HP: 500; Strength: 5; Speed: 8; Defense: 160; Exp: 50; G: 120; Tech: 20; Elemental Defense: all 2
Battle 1:
Triggered: Random; in the centre area
Enemies: 2 Beast
Battle 2:
Triggered: Trying to enter the next screen above
Enemies: 2 Beast
Battle 3:
Triggered: Random, on the upper right area of the screen
Enemies: 2 Beast
Battle 4:
Triggered: random; left upper tree from the center area
Enemies: 1 Beast
Battle 5:
Triggered: running along the ice bridge(lower path)
Enemies: 1 Beast
Battle 6:
Triggered: running along the ice bridge(middle path)
Enemies: 1 Beast
Battle 7:
Triggered: running along the ice bridge(upper path)
Enemies: 1 Beast
Comments: If they appear in a group of 2, they should at least have 100 HP so both won't get killed by 1 magic attack. If some tries, he gets hurt (Beasts do charge if you attack them and they don't die) by 2 strong attacks.
The more HP is also needed if he faces only 1, because he should need a min. of 2 attacks, otherwise leveling would be to easy. They need to give less gil.
Boss enemy:
Triggered: After the chat with Dalton
Enemies: 1 Golem Boss
Comments: He needs more HP and maybe 1 or 2 added speed so people need some healing(punish them for trying to run through that game), maybe a helm or armor as reward since the Shop doesn't have anything.
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5 TP is too much for a weak enemy as well.
Buying 10 Tonics isn't exactly hard to do, and slowing down the player is a sound idea. However, I am concerned that those beast fights will get redundant, and I think if you want to crank up the difficulty of the beasts without compromising the interest of the player, you need to introduce another type of enemy (or two) into these groupings. One of these enemies can be made either significantly more dangerous or significantly weaker than the other one or two types, forcing the player to set priorirites.
The Elixirs seem like overkill this early in the game; while using magic is a useful way to limit the pain from the Golem, you have to level-up before you even get *two* castings of a spell, so spending those Elixirs isn't particularly cost-efficient. The main problem with Magus's magic is that all of his spells cost 8+ TP (and his level-2 spells are already stronger than the other level-2 spells to boot, so just lowering the TP cost isn't the answer), and Magus as a level 1 creature was never planned for by Square. If Magus had a 4 TP or less skill, and he was picking up Ethers instead of Elixirs, I could see magic making some sense in the Golem fight, but that's not the beast we are dealing with here. His physical attacks are plenty strong as-is, anyway.
Ideas?
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Since it's "Beast Forest" would it be bad to add the red/blue beasts from that boss fight before Mt. Woe...Just a thought this is going to be your guys project.
--jp
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The Red and Blue Beasts may be an idea, but to differ them from the normal beasts, maybe give them Element absorbing? Or maybe give the Red ones more speed, yet less attack strength and for the Blue ones the other way around.(I can't quite remember if they also charge when you attack them, I hope they don't)
The normal Beast are strong enough, because of the Charge. I think instead of 2 normal beasts, we should have 1 Normal and 1 colord, and for the ice bridge each on in a single battle.
Maybe 2 TP for each Beast(whatever color)?
For the boss fight, 750 HP should be enough, yet the including the speed addition will make him more difficult.
Instead of Elixiers I would say using a normal Ether(+10 MP) would enough, and how about letting the normal Beasts drop Tonics? For those who are to lazy to kill the Enemys, go outside again and buy tonics, and reenter the Forest.
So this is my idea(I will edit the stuff above if everyone agrees, and differences from the one above is marked red if increased, blue if decreased, pink are additions).
Enemy 1: Beast HP: 150; Strength: 8; Speed: 10; Defense: 180; Exp: 5; G: 25; Tech: 2 Elemental Defense: all 4; Drop: Tonic(-> Remember he can charge)
Enemy 2: Blue Beast HP: 150; Strength: 12; Speed: 8; Defense: 180; Exp: 5; G: 25; Tech: 2; Elemental Defense: all 4
Enemy 3: Red Beast HP: 150; Strength: 5; Speed: 12; Defense: 180; Exp: 5; G: 25; Tech: 2; Elemental Defense: all 4
Boss Enemy: Golem Boss; HP: 750; Strength: 5; Speed: 10; Defense: 160; Exp: 50; G: 120; Tech: 20; Elemental Defense: all 2
I am not sure how strong the Strength effects the damage(is it linear or propotional?), I will test it soon.
Oh, and we need to chnage the charmable Items from them(you can still charm RBow Helms from the beasts).
Any suggestions?
EDIT: I downed every Beasts speed by 2, so the fastest beast(red one) is as fast as Magus, otherwise a group of them would be to hard.
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I did a List of all enemys that appear + their stats until Singing Mountain.
It should be for a quick look what enemys are inserted and what stats they original have(Note: the brackets are around the monster and Areas from the original CT). The hex Code is in brackets after the name of the Enemy.
I did it in the Editor, and it copying it here would screw the table, so just download he attachement.
Edit: All Enemies inserted.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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This may seem a little off topic, but it substantially affects Beast Mountain, so it seems relevant.
I've done some research to see what sort of tricks we have at our disposal regarding Magus and Beast Mountain. Ultimately, the problem with Magus is that he has no "weak" spells to speak of. Each of them costs 8+ MP (very much unlike the other heroes -- half their skills are 4 MP or less), and he starts with 14 Max MP. As is, Magus is ineffective as a magic user at this point of the game, so some adjustments may be in order. We could...
1) Kick Magus up a few levels (to 5 or 10). By the time he joins the other heroes, his levels should have covered some of the gap, and it isn't like he would completely outclass the other characters.
2) Put a SilverStud in a Beast Mountain chest. Cutting MP costs in half would help a bit, and while this is a pretty strong accessory for this point of the game, the same really could be said for Magus's Amulet.
3) Downgrade the power and cost of his level 2 spells (Fire2, Lit2, Ice2). This isn't entirely a drastic idea, because his level 2 spells use a base power of 18, whereas other characters with level 2 spells use a base power of 14. Taking his base power of 18 (for all 3 spells) down to 14 would put him in line with the other PCs, and decreasing the cost of level 2 spells for ALL characters to ~6 MP could be justified (this affects a lot of characters, but level 2 spells *are* a bit overpriced).
4) Cannibalize an existing spell to make it weaker and inexpensive. For this action to "make sense," you would need to choose a spell that is unique (this eliminates Lit2, Fire2, Ice2) and is something that could feasibly tweaked without changing lots of undocumented code (which I was unable to do with Black Hole). The logical remaining candidates would be Dark Mist and Dark Bomb. Dark Mist would be preferable, but it's problematic in that Dark Mist is the sixth spell learned. It's a pretty easy task to have Magus start off having learned his six spell, and you don't even have to teach him all the spells before it. However, if you want him to learn earlier spells, he will have to "relearn" Dark Mist later (he won't ever "forget" the spell, but he will have to earn the TP again, and after having done so, the game will report he has "learned" Dark Mist). That's probably not a "glitch" we want to have in the final product, and letting Magus start with his first six spells is a bit much.
4a) The last option is to instead sacrifice Dark Bomb and make that a weak and cheap spell. There's no "harm" in having Magus start with having learned four spells instead of just three, but it seems a tad cruel to neuter Magus's ONLY single-target (well, nearly single-target) attack spell.
I would advise against 4 and 4a, but some combination of the first three seem appropriate. It may not be so necessary to empower Magus to use spells throughout Beast Mountain, but it would be kind to allow the player to be effective with spells during the eventual boss battle (Golem's pattern of Iron Orb + physical attack is hellacious against single-character parties, so allowing Magus to use more magic would give a player a means of keeping damage in check). Making Ether available for sale and/or putting a couple Ethers in chests is an option that can help things out, but I would not rely on them alone to fix the MP problem (they're too expensive). Or we could do nothing, and just have Magus use his melee attack.
So, please advise.
I actually like the idea of using the Red and Blue beasts, but would they be able to attack on their own? I always remember them needing to be provoked by that nigh-invincible Imp.
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It sounds like the silverstud is certainly the easiest to implement option.
--jp
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About the red/blue beasts: I'm gonna check what attack they have later tonight. Is it possible to make his "counter-attack" (when he gets hit by the Imp's stone) to a normal attack?
I would say either boost or Silverstud, not both.
Boost to max. lvl 5(he then would have 22 MP) + maybe managing the Exp-gain so he would get level 6 before fighting the Golem with a few extra fights(lvl 6=24 exp=3 spells).
Silverstud would mean 3 spells with level 1(You have 14 MP if I recall right).
One of those + Downgrading.
And about downgrading: I would say to downgrade to 15/16, because he is Magus and supposed to be stronger with his spells than the others.
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I can do #1-#3 fairly easily on my own and just give an .ips patch. From an effort standpoint (on my part), they are all quite cheap.
I think what I'll do is use the SilverStud and downgrade the level 2 magic.
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I've begun the wiki for this:
http://chronocompendium.com/Term/CE/Battles/Chapter1LegacyOfZeal.html
Feel free to add to it, it's not hard to do just document all the battles no hex editing required haha.
--JP
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Do bosses get their own page or should they just be added there?
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We can make it a seperate page and then link to the bosses from there.
We can do something like
[[CE/Bosses/(bossnamehere)]]
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Cyber:
I gave the red/blue beasts weaknesses to elements I'm not sure how to make them absorb elements maybe if i make their elemental defense high enough it absorbs it? (i'll try tat later).
I still get killed by two of them before I can cast a spell twice though.
--JP
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Here is a patch I made that makes Magus spells cost 6 instead of 8 but also weakens the spells....i'm debating undoing the weakening the spells.
--JP
[attachment deleted by admin]
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70-Lasher
HP: 300
LV: 7
Unknowns: 0;0;0;0;0;10
Speed 11
Magic 10
Hit % 70
Evade 16
Mgc Def 50
Offense 35
Defense 183
Elemental Defense 4/4/4/4
Immunity BytFlag 0
Exp: 7; G 25; Drop TOnic; Charm Mid Tonic; Tech 2
45- Jinn Bottle
HP: 350
Lvl: 7
Unknowns: 0;0;0;0;0;10
Speed 11
Magic 20
hit% 16
Evade 9
mgc Def: 50
Offense 17
defense 200
Elemental Defense 4/4/4/4
Exp: 7; G 25; Drop TOnic; Charm Shield; Tech 2
A1- Dalton
HP: 1000
Lvl 12
Unknowns 0/255/0/0/0/10
Speed 1?
Magic 10
Hit %: 100
Evade 15
Mgc Def: 50
Offense 20
Defense 127
Elem Defense 4/4/4/4
Immunity Byte Flag 128
Death Animation 3
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Sorry for being inactive at the moment, but I will finish my finals this week and after that I will be back in action.
About absorbing, this is what I found on my old enemy list:
Elemental Defense(Lightning; Fire; Water; Shadow):
Cyrus(8F): 0/0/0/0;
Tank Head(AD): 0/4/4/0;
Lizardactyl(81): 132/4/4/4;
4 is the Casual defense, yet I can't remember whether 0 is absorb. If it is, 2 would be Half Damage(x0,5), 4 normal damage(x1), 6 double damage(x2)? 132 must be no Damage, but it somehow doesn't make sense... If you don' have time to test it out, I'll try it next week(after the school stuff and the 2nd part of the finals is finally[haha, pun] over).
I have msot likely asked that a few times before, but are there any damage formulas for Characters and Enemies? I don't mean techs, just something like: "atk(weapon)*(0,5*str)/def-Random Number=damage done to enemy" or whatever(I know this one doesn't work, was just a way to express what I thought about).
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Thanks for the update damage formulad may be on gamefaqs ill check later
I can't be super active either for a bit cause I'm moving but ill be back on this soonish
Jp
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Should there be an own Topic for bosses? Maybe it is useful, but maybe it's making everything a bit unclear with all those topics.
Here is what I think about the Beast Forest:
*Note: I don't know the exact stats, because my ctec doesn't want to work, so I can only give rough estimations
**Note: I used a rather low level, so if something changed drastically(like the damage taken) from one level to another, please mention it.
I think the 3 beasts seem to equal, all die in two hits, do about the same damage, and power up after being hit. Omnishield is a must, but it makes all of them do 0 damage at Magus level 1 without powering up. A bit boring, so what I thought was:
* Slow the red beast a bit down, and give him a bit higher attack power but(if possible) lower "attack up" after being hit
* Make the blue beast not powering up, but have him do the damage the others do after powering up once(so people don't cast Omnishield and laugh because of the 0 damage).
* there shouldn't be 2 x the same enemy here, because I think if there are 2 different types, people think who to attack first.
Some not really enemy related things:
* How about the Elder giving Magus 5 Tonics or something after Dalton's appearance? Maybe saying something like: It's not much, but hope it helps pursuing Dalton.
* How about offering a weak armor at the shop, so people who spent a few minutes leveling up can buy it(I think 25G per enemy not counting the boss, and considering having 400 G at the beginning it should cost ~ 600-650. 8-10 Enemys at minimum, and -10G per Tonic.). Or maybe a helm or both.
Golem Boss(I was lvl 2, so the numbers might vary slightly/a lot if someone comes there level 4-5):
- Omnishield a must(all numbers below are shielded)
- spamming lightning seems nice, because of the only 2 mp costs and ~ 130 dmg, yet the counterattack is devasting(70 dmg), and you do about the same damage by normal attacking -> I like that idea
- spamming physical + tonics takes some time, yet the 15 damage done seems low, but his orb(1/2 hp) fireball rotations can easily take you down very fast, and it's very tonic intensive(like orb-fireball-orb-tonic, and you can only attack twice, or you might die if you're to slow)
- best Idea is the bolt-attack combination, because his counter resets(you can't pull off 2 bolts+attack, because he will lightning you)
- I didn't try Ice 2, because it's just to expensive MP wise
The only thing that killed me twice was the burp(49 dmg shielded), but this might be solved by leveling up, yet it's hard thanks to the orb to have a rather high hp(at least with tonics, and Mid Tonics, beside the one you find, are too expensive yet). Maybe lower it's attack slightly? And maybe Golem Boss should say something? Like he serves his Master(Dalton) until death? Or maybe some funny stuff like "At least we aren't somewhere high"?
Note: I'm not sure if the following part is useful, but I thought people might get idea's what to tweak if the "see" how the battle went on.
The battle I did was like:
Enemy Approaching
(Magus 120 HP, 16 MP)
G: Iron Orb -> 60 HP
M: Omnishield -> 14 MP
G: Fireball(~14 dmg)-> 46 HP
M: Shadowbolt(~128 dmg) -> 12 MP[here resets the Golem counter, because he "loads" his lightning attack]
M: Attack(~118 dmg) [another counter resets, yet the physical attacks are faster]
G: Iron Orb -> 23 HP
M: Attack(~118 dmg) [I did this, because I prefer the Iron Orb after shadowbolt-attack, just in case the shield wears off]
G: Fireball -> 9 HP
M: Shadowbolt(~128 dmg) -> 10 MP
M: Attack(118 dmg)
G: Iron Orb -> 5 HP
M: Recovers(Mid Tonics once, or Tonics for several turns) and does another Shadowbolt-Attacks combo
G: Blurp(by the time, if you used a slower speed*, you shield is gone, and it does ~ 70 dmg)
*For those who didn't know, Barrier+Shield is affected by "real time", thus slower speed means less turns shielded, while higher speed means more turns shielded.
Now that I see it, it's not that useful, but what is done is done. I think the general idea of how to beat the enemy will be transported by my analysis anyways.
Everything I mentioned is open for discussion, so if someone disagrees, please say so(and at best, why).
Edit: Dalton's Lair:
* Jinn's Bottle should drop Ether, because 2 Lasher are to strong without omnishield
* Boss battle: He only did Iron Orb, until his HP reached 0 and he burped, thus killed me. Intentional?
Edit 2:
Sorry again for not being a bit off topic with chests and stuff, but I think I can be more useful going on posting stuff here instead of using my time to split the things I already said up and post them on the different topics. And Chests, thus equipment, is closely related to Enemies anyways.
* Vedic Blade in Chronopolis needs to be exchanged, because it's just too strong. I played without it, in order to give a "better" opinion.
Chimera Tank boss:
* in order to make it at least a bit different I think we should gibe the body, when it is the last part left, and area attack that is weaker than the wheel one. And, if this is added, we might as well lower the damage of it's counter(the yellow beam it shoots when you attack) a bit.
Chronopolis:
* The sole Red Scout should give fewer exp(it gives like 250, while your total is only that much by that time). Maybe lower it's HP or Phys.Defense, because it takes ages if you didn't bring Lucca(yet you can still flee an change the party...so maybe it's not that bad).
* Same goes for the other two in the Flyclops+Red/Blue Scout(less EXP), and I suggest give the Flyclops~ 600-700 HP instead of 900 HP
Ruins:
* Martellos need to do a little less damage(and maybe only 300 HP instead of 400)
(* Maybe add a Chest in the Room with the 3 Deceased, so, like, you don't go there for nothing)
* Panel's damage should also be a bit less
* the Battles to open the doors(like the Panel/Martello or the Panel/Panel one) should'nt be escapable
* You can't seem to go back to buy stuff or heal, which might be a problem, so we either could open a shop(maybe communication to Melchior and he sends stuff, of course in a normal shopping window) or give the player the chance to retreat.
(* Chests in Ruins should contain accessories, like speed belt(+2 speed), power gloves(or how it's called, + x strengh), maybe an armor, and a weapon for Crono(if we don't just replace the vedic blade with a weaker one).)
* King Zeal AI: we had one before, didn't we? is it gone, or is it going to be in soon?
Truce Canyon:
* Enemies(except Roly, because he is also used in the chapters before) need more HP and Def, because this is the first time in 602 A.D., and they die in one hit.
SD Fields:
* Raise Glenns staring Level to 7, maybe 8. I was there at level 10/11, and considering the fewer exp I mentioned above, I think this is around the Level the player might be.
* Glenn also is to be very strong compared to the others(even being the new powerhouse) thanks to the Masamune and Hero Badge. We should give the others new weapons in order to keep it up a little bit(maybe in the Tunnel, maybe in OP Ruins)
* Maybe add a Attack Capsule or something in the Sandy area in the Tunnel, like it has been in CT's sidequest.
* Kasmir definetly needs a new AI, he only does Cyrus Ghost attack(he is also called Cyrus in the Battle), which is rather boring. I didn't think of anything yet, maybe some warp-attack thing? Because he's an illusionist.
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Cyber,
Thanks for all the detailed explanation. I will run through this in more detail later. Your suggestions are very helpful. I will run through the game with your suggestions in mind. I'm impressed you beat golem boss at such a low level I know I needed to be level 4. I suppose a good rule of thumb is the heir to the masamune can beat someone at a low level means an average player can beat it after levelling up. Ill make a more detailed reply later.
OK I got a bit more time right now so I'll give more specifics:
Beast Forest:
*Unfortunately I don't know how to make the "power up" less significant. I also don't like Omnishield being that powerful (down to 0) but they just power up so fast that I was worried to raise their attack. Either
a) we need an advanced person to find out where the "power up" constant is stored (vehek or jlukas)
b) I can try out some new AI's i'm trying to think if there is a similar AI that won't glitch these guys.
*I like the elder idea
*Ice 2 won't be there i'll definately find a way to bring steal back
*Offering a weak armor is an excellent idea. In fact we really should start compiling a lists of stores in the game so that the beta testing is as realistic as possible.
**In fact we probably shouldn't even start them with 400 G anymore
Daltons Dungeon
*I'm really surprised I didn't have them drop ethers already. I'm trying to make ethers more accessible so that people are encouraged to use magic
* Dalton's stupid AI is because I replaced him from dalton+ to dalton and the first dalton has a boring AI. I'm going to keep him as Dalton (because we vs him again later) but I'll repoint his AI
Chronopolis
*feel free to tell me about chests
*Thanks for pointing out you can still run. That's a bug more than a feature
*Definatly just forgot to edit the exp from thaht guy
Chimera Tank
*We should probably have a guy that just does enemy AI stuff....Faustwolf? You could be in charge of new techs and enemy AI?
Ruins:
* I agree with you on all accounts
* Zeals AI being restored is one of the things on my list
SD Fields:
*What is an attack capsule
*I agree with you on his AI being horrible. All I did was make it so the battle didn't end.
Questions:
How do you feel about Magus new tech?
Can you possibly put "recommended level" when you enter a new area?
Jp
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By Attack capsule, I meant a Power Tab(or how they are called in CT). We should also consider offering more tabs, for example like CT had Spekkio for a few extra tabs, maybe we could use the Medina Auxiliary as something equal? I'm not sure about the coliseum, as in how we could insert tabs there without making people farm them like crazy(maybe one time prizes, saying something like "You finished easy Solo for the first time, here is little a prize"?).
About Magus new Techs(the 2 ones I have, don't know if there are any new as higher Techs): Shadowbolt should be Shadow, so it's not just a Crono ripoff. But that would make the Nizbil fight Hard, with only Crono(IF you took him along, that is). But having 2 lightning techs makes fighting 3 reptites far to easy, just spam them with thunder each, and fight until one recovers, and thunder him again(with one, it's harder to get all 3 stunned).
About the recommended Level thingy: I just looked what level you will roughly be if you beat all enemies + a few extra fight for leveling purposes(that's what most "casual players" will do). Also, I didn't make a recommended Level if there are onyl 2 Figths(like Zeal, the Nu and 2 Lasher), instead I added them to the part before/after.
*Note: the first 2 are Magus' Level, the other Characters will be level ~4 in the next chapter.
Beast Forest: (you start as level)1-4(recommended when leaving)
Dalton's Lair: 4-6
Up until after the Chronopolis Raid(Boss Fight in 102 AD+ Raid): 4-8
Ocean's Palace Ruins: 8-12(if there is a way to heal/buy Items; maybe one of those Stasis Tubes we saw in the Black Omen(where clones or whatever were in, short before the Zeal fight) at the beginning as an option to heal?)
Until After visiting Zeal(602+Zeal, where only 2 fight are anyways): 12-14
Singing Mountain: 14-18(it's a really nice place to level up a bit, esp. considering the following chapters where you have a set Party you can't change)
That's it for now considering Levels.
Mystics Den:
* Mud Imp AI should be a bit changed, for example making Glenn sleep is unfair considering he's alone(esp. if the weak enemies are dead, and he will use his rather strong stone kicking)
* My game sometimes freezes when I attack him(Mus Imp) first, and he counters with his stomp.(I know off topic, but better saying it here then forgetting it)
* The Items you get in these are far to good (except Side with Porre=None, yet Side with mystics=Nova Armor? Neutrality= 2500 G+Dash Ring+Magic Ring+ Rock helm).
- Siding with Mystics: The armor is obviously to strong, maybe we can instead give them a Vest that reduces elemental damage(maybe make the player choose 2)?
- Siding with Porre: Maybe choose an accessories or two? Maybe give them the choice of Speed Belt, Magic Scarf(if it's weaker then the ring, if not, stay with the Magic Ring), or a Hit Ring(for the Marle/Lucca players)?
- Neutrality: Maybe a mix, like one Helm that reduces Elemental damage from a Mystics Body, and an Accessories like Power Gloves?(or whatever raised Strength; Defense is not needed I think, because Robo already has a Defender. Maybe even a Counter thing(the 50% one)?)
I'm not sure how much effect the way you choose has on the storyline, but if we would do like the way I described, it would at least have more importance Item wise. Maybe, in order to hint what Items you get for siding with Porre/Mystrics, in the Dialog with the Generals they could say like "mystics worked on elemental resistance armor" or "Porre Soldiers had lots of accessories lately"? Maybe that would influence the choice.
Singing Mountain:
* Less money from Avian Rex, they give 1800 G per Enemy.
* Maybe make the Green Reptites(or the Grey once, doesn't matter I think) a little bit faster, in order to make it harder to keep all stunned and to have a little bit bigger problems with their sleeping attack.
* Nizbel: A big question, what happens when you have neither Magus nor Crono in your party? Because you can't decrease his defense. Either you force either Crono or Magus into the party(Crono would be more fitting, because what reason would Magus have to want to go in the first party?), or re-enable the party switching(which kind of screwes the Idea of splitting party). People who save with Robo, Marle, Lucca just before Nizbel will be stuck. Just reducing his other Elemental Defenses wouldn't be the best idea either, because it would cost a lot of ethers to defeat him solely with magic.
Oh, and give this boy more exp, because he only gave as much as a "normal fight" in singing mountain.
* Megasaurs are no Problem even without lightning-Magic, because they don't have ultra high elemental defenses. They should become a little bit faster(because you have 3 Characters who will most likely spam magic, and these 2 Enemies won't attack enough to make the party stop an heal), maybe even a little more HP. And they should give more EXP(they gave 300 together), esp. if they are made harder with the speed and HP stuff.
That's it for now. Will the TechPoints you need for a new tech be adjusted when it's clear what the final techs will be? Because I found in CT it took far to long to get the final ones(even if you grinded the respawning rubble or what it's called).
I did a shop-list when I worked on that Room/Enemy list, yet I didn't think I should post an own topic for it, nor do I know if it's complete(or any shops change at a certain chapter). I'll just add it here and you can say what will be done with it.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Awesome job again Cyber. This topic is fine for putting the shops for now since it is so related to enemy modification.
Mystic Den
* Yea this fight was giving me problems since Glenn was alone. It was hard for me to find a set of enemies that wasn't way too hard but still gave the feeling that he was fighting a whole settlement. I'll see what I can do about the mud imps AI.
* I like the item recommendations and yes your choice should affect the present more.
Singing Mountain/techs:
Currently we dont know how to change the element of a tech so were stuck with Phantom Bolt being lightning. It's also important that it is lightning for the split singing mountain segment.
* I believe I added a little hint that you should put crono in one team and Magus in another? But you are right we should probably force Crono in there.
Wow you caught up to me. Sorry I haven't had time to work on this hopefully I'll be getting into the swing of things soon here.
EDIT:
I just saw the shops list, I meant you can document what you want from shops not what they already are. I just want to point out the only reason that I haven't already Crimson Echoefied shops is because it uses unused space that Temporal Flux could potentially utilize (thus i want to do it last).
--JP
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I started with the Marle Chapter:
Pre Chapter stuff that could be added:
You already mentioned the problem with Marle being alone, and I don't think we can change it(sadly, "guest fighters" who only appear once aren't possible, yet). I'm not sure if this is possible, but maybe we can, before the Marle Chapter starts, add a Textbox that says something like "the following chapter will be Marle only, be prepared" and open the menu with all characters still active, so people can switch equipment(like speed belt or whatever), and after the player closes the menu, let the actual chapter begin. This could make things at least a bit easier, considering the good Armors, Helms etc. might be equipped on other characters.
How to fight the low defense?: We might let the enemies drop Shield(physical damage cut by 1/3) or add them to the Shop(which would be somehow unique, because I don't think we had that in Chrono Trigger). It's shouldn't be cheap, because these items are very useful. Or maybe give Marle 15 or so by Cedric, in order to stop the player from buying 99 of them and make the rest of the game easier. Or, maybe, after rescuing the Girl in the Forest, give Marle an accessory that Shields here all the time? maybe a "lower" kind of shield, which only cuts damage by 1/4? If possible, that is.
Other things the Shop should/could have:
* Mid Tonic(so we don't have rely on aura to much)
* Maybe a Sleep preventing Helm for a bit more money(for the rich folks)
* Ethers? maybe we should even start selling Mid Ethers from this chapter onwards?
* Either the "confusing" weapon you added(it doesn't say so, by the way), or a stronger one and hide the "confusing" weapon in the Forest where you have to find the girl -> Why?: People can still use provoke, even though it is not as handy as that weapon. So we should at least make people search for this weapon.
People have now the choice of "Provoke + stronger weapon", or "weaker weapon + auto confusion". How high in % is the chance to hit an enemy with Provoke, and how high it is compared to that weapon? Could we make Provoke hit like 75%of the time, while the "confuse" from the weapon hits only 50%? Of course these numbers need some testings in order to see their effectiveness. Or, instead of a confusing weapon, maybe one that sucks the Enemies HP and gives it to Marle(again, if possible)? Like The Masamune during the Mammon Machine fight did, this way, a combination of Provoke + HP recovery could help Marle a lot. But maybe it would make things to easy, too.
[Note: I have no Idea if stuff like this is possible, but can we add stat-increasing Armors/weapons? I know some helms add Speed, but can we actually add a weapon that increases the "hit" stat? Or an armor that increases Speed(I think the TabanVest from Lucca did this)? Maybe even add several Stats, like +10 hit, + 1 Speed, + 5 Defense?]
I think Marle's ice takes to less MP, even though it is necessary to survive in here solo. By allowing the player to buy Mid-/Ethers, we can raise Ice's costs to 3/4MP.(Lvl 13 Marle has 36 MP). Maybe even raising both Aura and Provoke to 2 MP each. We Could also hide this Silverstud thing that raises MP something in Terra Tower or somewhere, because "now"(as in: during that chapter) seems a good time.
I can't really say anything about enemies yet, because they were already used before. Changing them in this Chapter will change them in the previous and next chapters, too, won't it? If yes, we can only change the Number of enemies or the stuff mentioned above in order to do a fitting challenge.
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I actually set up this chapter's layout such that marle has a different set of enemies than everyone else (thank goodness). C/M/G and L/R do have the same enemies within Terra Tower.
I like the idea of shields I was close to giving marle a shield tech but I like this idea better. Currently I dont know how to change the % of the weapon. No editor shows that stat. And with enemies it seems to either be immune/ not immune as opposed to a %. Maybe mgc defense = status defense?
I think we should probably put shields in the shop in case someone uses up their whole stash. We can make them expensive. I also like the idea of the bow being hidden however we'll not put it in the forest but that's something we can put at "holy lake" up north. It'll give a reason to go there as well as a reason to expand the area.
Plus Marle's chapter seems to be shorter than the other 2 so it expands the chapter as well.
--JP
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I don't know if it's still going to be in, but something to remember: Marle, Lucca, and Robo's stats reset back to pre-chapter 7 stats, which may include their equipment.
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That was something I was thinking about.....now i know this is going to sound horribly corny but it'll save a lot of programming headaches..(maybe this should go plot).
So Cyber mentioned the idea of letting the player know that Marle is going to be alone before her chapter. I was thinking that it goes to a black screen and an NPC I was thinking gaspar since he is currently finding the entity. There's a short explanation that happens and gaspar pleads with the entity to help. They argue for awhile but eventually the entity says he will help by sending them to key points and letting them share equipment keep levels....
Yes I know it's corny. I also realize it's physically possible to keep their stats and such but if we do that we also have to remember items and remove those and that could get messy. C/M/G will get slightly overpowered compared to the rest of the group.. And we might have people who get angry about losing levels (espeicially since they'll probably have to level up Marle quite a bit.
I'd really like some input on this... is it lazy programming?
--JP
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I think most people won't like to have their stats reset, because you work for getting some levels, Items, etc.. Losing them shortly afterwards sounds more like a punishment than a feature.
Maybe we could argue, like, gameplay is not 100% based on the story? For example, in CT, just before the 2nd Magus fight(where you have the choice of him joining you, or fighting him), he has much more HP than he has when he joins you, which makes no sense story wise, yet gameplay wise it does(several thousand HP don't even fit on the screen).
Why do characters who are not active in the party gain experience points? Story wise, they are not fighting, so they shouldn't gain any experience, yet for the gameplay they get these exp. in order to keep up with the active party.
We also started with level 1 characters in CE, but they should be much stronger, even after these 2 years. We shouldn't sacrifice gameplay in this way to "fit" with the story, but that's only my opinion.
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I was asked to help out with the AI. Let me know how you want things and I'll get started.
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Cyber can you work with Mauron to make your favorite King Zeal AI?
Basically bosses are an empty pallette so replace whichever one you need to fit our dream scenario.
I'll list bosses that we'll eventually need AI's for in order of ...complexity
King Zeal <--I'd say this is priority strong magic user
Kasmir <- Magic user as well as physical? Illusionist....not sure maybe find a way to increase evade if possible?
Three Reptite Time Travellers <--One fire, one ice, one lightning...you fight 2 of these simultaneously so if you can figure out double techs...or atleast make some sort of condition while they are together (even if it's just displaying a dialogue box)
Frozen Flame Enemies <-- Returning faces here, Yakra, Atropos, the blue robots...it's up to you if you want to edit them
Mutant in Porre Lab <---Meh...this enemy doesn't have any back story...maybe there's still time to make this boss more interesting
Lebniz <---up to you if you want to change him
if i think of more I'll add them
--JP
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So what we are supposed to do is give a Boss several attacks, and make a pattern+counter+weaknesses and all that stuff?
Are there any new attacks/animations planed for bosses? Maybe if the characters get new ones, we might as well give those to bosses, too(like make Kasmir use ShadowBolt or something).
Are stat changing "moves" a possibility? Like Shield/Barrier? I think a Barrier like move was tested for King Zeal's older AI, he did the move, yet it had no effect on the Magic Damage he took. How about haste? giving a boss enemy haste at his last 10% or something will make things more interesting.
For example Beasts had the ability to raise their attack when hit, which seems a "casual" counter. Could we modify this? Like in 10% of the time the enemy is hit, he casts shield or something on himself as counter(could we leave the rest 90% "blank", like he doesn't have a counter?), and, when under like 15% of his max HP, he casts shield once and his counter changes to maybe an attack.
In short: Do damage altering things like Barrier/Shield work, or wll they work after some work? Is the enemies Counter always 100%; can it be modified?
I remember most bosses(Magus comes to mind) have different "phases", like when he lost 50% HP in the first battle or something, he changes his attack pattern. To what extent is this possible? Can we also do "random" phases? Where we have like 5 different, and after each 10% HP the enemy loses, he random switches to on of the 4 remaining once?(maybe like Magus in his first fight switches his elemental weakness randomly).
Are there any limits in number of attacks and number of "patterns"?
Well, I think I can make better suggestions if I know the limits of AI modification. It would be sad and a waste of time to think about lots of different patterns etc. for bosses, and we can't insert them because I didn't know the possibilities...
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So what we are supposed to do is give a Boss several attacks, and make a pattern+counter+weaknesses and all that stuff?
Pretty much.
Are there any new attacks/animations planed for bosses? Maybe if the characters get new ones, we might as well give those to bosses, too(like make Kasmir use ShadowBolt or something).
Changing the moves is easy, but I don't know about custom animations. Making them look different is another story - The encyclopedia has a list of animations we can swap around, and out of context they may look unique enough to fool people. http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Attacks.html (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Attacks.html)
Are stat changing "moves" a possibility? Like Shield/Barrier? I think a Barrier like move was tested for King Zeal's older AI, he did the move, yet it had no effect on the Magic Damage he took. How about haste? giving a boss enemy haste at his last 10% or something will make things more interesting.
For example Beasts had the ability to raise their attack when hit, which seems a "casual" counter. Could we modify this? Like in 10% of the time the enemy is hit, he casts shield or something on himself as counter(could we leave the rest 90% "blank", like he doesn't have a counter?), and, when under like 15% of his max HP, he casts shield once and his counter changes to maybe an attack.
In short: Do damage altering things like Barrier/Shield work, or wll they work after some work? Is the enemies Counter always 100%; can it be modified?
Counter attacks can be set to a percentage, and stats can be altered with one of the conditions.
I remember most bosses(Magus comes to mind) have different "phases", like when he lost 50% HP in the first battle or something, he changes his attack pattern. To what extent is this possible? Can we also do "random" phases? Where we have like 5 different, and after each 10% HP the enemy loses, he random switches to on of the 4 remaining once?(maybe like Magus in his first fight switches his elemental weakness randomly).
So far the only HP related condition known is 50%. and random patterns are possible.
Are there any limits in number of attacks and number of "patterns"?
The only known limitation is space.
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Mauron perhaps you should make a new topic for this and I'll sticky it. One particular to Bosses?
Custom Animations:
If we can figure out where in the ROM these are located it is definitely possible to edit them in the Tech editor. I know CL had gato's punch tech and it used the same commands all the other techs use. Mauron have you tested what happens to Magus 2 the enemy's lit/fire/ice 2 when we edit the original lit/fire/ice 2? Is he actually casting a PC's tech or did they copy it over to enemmies??
If enemies can use PC techs.... then PC's should be able to use enemy techs....hmm
--JP
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Spekkio's Lightning and Crono's Lightning are different techs.
Major Update: I found out how to locate enemy techs. I'm out right now, but I'll post more information when I get home.
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By the way as far as "status" stuff goes I'm pretty sure that the reason the king zeal thing didn't work is because all he was doing was casting the tech. which just does the animations. what we could implement is the tech -> a stat increase.
I don't think we know all of the stat increases available yet but simple trial and error should yield it
EDIT:
Terra Mutant AI must be changed
Jinn Ai must be changed
Base AI Should be changed make it combine with shadow or alkaline
--JP
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What about Terra Mutant and Jinn AI needs to be changed?
For Base AI maybe we could do an "if shadow or alkaline is dead" followed by a normal attack pattern. That's all I've seen about the presence of specific monsters. My test showed it working as an "if not active in battle" pattern.
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Terra and jinn require other monsters to be there. You don't have to worry about regular enemies for now as they may change those notes are mainly for me. Focus on bosses those are definitely priority.
Jp
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I currently have some internet troubles and, ironically, not much free time during my holydays, but I will have much more time once they end(next week).
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King Zeal:
He should be able to use at least one attack of each element, and maybe some defensive ones(or maybe, plot wise, he is so full of rage that he doesn't care about anything else but destruction?).
So, which ones should he use?
Crying Heavens as lightning? A Lavos central bit attack, maybe hinting towards him being controlled?
Flame Breath as fire? I remember it was in his last AI, and I though it was rather cool.
Water attack from Lavos Spawn in Black Omen?
Maybe this one attack of Giga Gaia, when only one hand was active?
Ah well, can't come up with something good at the moment.
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Marle Chapter:
* She definitely needs some speed up, we may put a Speed tab at the lake, or offer more TP so she might learn haste(if we can switch the order they learn techs). Yet haste might be a bit too useful that early. Maybe make some "Haste Item"? With a fitting high prize?
* Other that that, a nice way to level Marle up is in the Terra Tower, where you fight Volcanoes.
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What about the Secret Boss? Will he be a cameo from another game? Or hasn't it been given any thoughts?
And during the Terra Tower, you have the choice to push some rocks down a hole, what are the consequences?
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Crono/Magus/Glenn Chapter:
* Maybe make the Enemies drop some Lapis(the "Mid Tonic for All"), so Glenn doesn't need to heal all the time(if he learned it already, otherwise it will be harder). I'm not sure whether we should reduce it's power to 150 HP healing for all.
* How about making the Tournament harder, give out some good items if the Party wins, and make it losable? I for one always like rewarding challenges. If this is done, we might need to do some text changes?
* A shop and recovery possibility(including savepoint) at the tournament, so people can stock up on Items and heal before they fight it.
* Shitakes need to be slowed done, or at least prevent them from having the first attack. It's hard to fight 3 of them, where they have the first 3 attacks, and while you heal and revive after their attacks, they just attack again... I'm not sure if we can prevent this fast gauge filling at the begin of the battle(if enemies have their own attack gauge, that is), if not or it is to much work, we should just slow them down a bit(or lower their attack).
* There is a Reptite in a Cave mentioning some kind of Armor he can make with stuff from some woods...will this be scrapped or added later?
* For the Final fight(against 2 "Azalas"), it was mentioned they should use fire & water...
Now this idea might sound lazy, but since they are time travelers, like Marle and Lucca, why not give them the same techs? Maybe, if Marle and Lucca will get new ones, give our 2 enemies these, too, so player can see what techs they will get soon. I always wanted to fight a player clone(at least techwise), so maybe other people will see it the same way? Enemies that can us Haste+Protection+double techs etc. will be a challenge, esp. considering you currently use the strongest characters. We just need to sort out what techs will be used, because a Grenade(like Lucca's tech) doesn't seem fitting.
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That's it for now, I will have much more ready during the next week.
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Zeal:
I'm also going to be doing be able to increase productivity a TON after this weekend (it's my sisters 21st bday so were going on vacation and I have to pack + get some work done). King Zeal definitely sounds doable I'm sure mauron appreciates telling him where the tech is used.
Marle:
I''m thikning of making haste cost more MP and making it Haste 2 (everyone gets haste). Do you think this is overkill? We'd probably be removing haste helms.
Secret boss:
Though I'd love to make him a cameo we have to ask if anyone on our team can do it.. Unfortunately our biggest weakness is a lack of a graphics guy.
C/M/G:
*There's a point in the game where I did have the enemies drop lapises I actually thought it was this chapter (terra tower). If not you are right this is where it'd be more useful since you are forced to use this party.
* If Marle pushes the rock down the hole you can enter the upper left area on the first floor as C/M/G if you are taking the left path.
* We'd definitely need to do text changes for the tournament because right now the reptites don't talk to them until they win it. However we could certainly make the text if they are brave enough to enter the tournament the reptites start talking to them and Zeality is redoing dialogue anyways. I'll get his input.
* I keep meaning to add a shop/savepoint! I'll definitely add it later.
* Consider the shitakes slower after run 2.
* Definitely going to be add the armor. It's elemental armor for the Azala fights.
* Unfortunatly (this dissapointed me to) it seems like Magus/speekio fire/ice/lightning has nothing to do with the Characters techs (I found this incredibly surprising myself). So it looks like we are stuck with what we have seen Enemies cast. I'm personally hoping that at the least we can have characters cast enemy techs (i want to give magus a drain attack). So for now we'll use the magus/speekio "character techs" and hopefully later we'll find a way to have them cast our techs.
--JP
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What has the average level been when you guys fought King Zeal?
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He's going to be the final boss. But you will also fight him as magus alone before and you are suppose to lose. You also will have the option to fight him at the crater (where you are suppose to lose as well).
In my play through I was at level 40 when I got to DBT. However, you can expect that we will add sidequests and probably make some dungeons longer so I'd aim for level 50.
--JP
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Getting started on King Zeal, and have a couple questions:
- Is there a larger block I can use for his AI? The current one is rather constricting.
- Are there any battle strings available for use?
There might be a bug with saving the changes, or it might just be this computer sucking again. I'll tell you what happens when I use it on my laptop.
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Were not using Lavos (final form) that should be larger :)
--JP
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Much. :D
What about strings? Are there any empty ones I can steal?
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Hm.......the mammon machine has a few right? You can steal those.
--JP
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Bah, the attacks aren't balanced. I've got one doing 80 damage and another doing 1700 damage.
We need to either find where the power for enemy techs is located, or better document the attack strengths so I can repoint the animations as need be.
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Ah good point. Um for know assume we won't find it and try to find balanced attacks. Unless you think you can find it relatively soon?
Jp
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What about repointing the animations? Is that an option, or are we stuck with what can be found?
If neither is an option, I might have to mess with his magic stat in order to choose the best attacks.
I'll look into changing the damage dealt after I have a sample AI for him.
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If we get the animations for an enemy attack that can be loaded in the tech editor then we can try to change it. But remember many of these spells are shared between enemies and we have to be sure that it doesn't affect another enemy.
--JP
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Good point. I'll find a way to make do with what's there.
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Crono/Magus/Glenn Timeline:
Some things I forgot in my last post:
Terra Tower:
* Cave Ape needs less atk(esp. considering Lucca and Robo will fight him, too)
* 2nd Floor: There is a Fossil Ape here, I think it should have been a Cave Ape(Because Fossil Apes are way to weak)
* These 3 fights in a row are hard, which is not bad, but the Dinosaurs nearly instantly use their "Ultra electric Charge" after being hit by lightning. If possible, we should extent this time. Also, hey don't seem to regain their defense after their Charge, intentional?
* The Single Azala could be Lightning type, because we already got Fire and Water(And shadow, if they can use a double tech)
Lucca/Robo Timeline
* Shop
* There is an empty dome north, what's planned with it?
* Lucca needs a better weapon, in the Shop, or preferable somewhere in a Chest
Robot Factory:
* Acid(80 HP) & Alkaline(3000 HP[this is a joke I hope]) have far to high defense, I only do about 5 dmg with Robo...
* R Series should have less HP
* The 3 R Series + 1 Reptite right at the beginning should be reduced to 2 R Series + Reptite
* Proto II need to give more Exp(They only give 22)
* Bytes need less speed and less atk, esp. considering you can only fight two at once.
* Boss: Maybe add 1 Acid and 1 Alkaline(with less def as mentioned above) so it won't be too similar to the fight at the beginning.
Terra Tower:
* Different enemy setup? I get constantly beaten by Cave Ape + Lizardactyl. We have to consider that the current setup was for Crono/Magus/Glenn if I'm not mistaken.
I'll go on with the Terra Tower later.
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Haha, the 3000 HP is definitely not intentions..... :?
There's definitely plans for adding domes to both futures chronopolis and lucca/Robo. We may also have a real boss for Lucca/Robo's robot factory. Do you think you'll be able to beat the Cave Ape + Lizardactyl when we add in new weapons/armor is it simply WAY to hard?
--JP
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I currently have the problem that there is no Shop, and thus my healing Items are limited, because somehow, everytime there is a new Patch and I use my old savestate, some Items like Mid Tonics etc become Sun Stones or unnamed object, or even weapons...
The Problem is, Lucca and Robo both are slow as Hell, so the Cave Ape and Lizardactyl can attack before me, which nearly kills one of my characters, or leave both wounded. Robo Heals, and Lucca attacks. If I attack the Lizardactyl, he just uses his Chaos Counter, which leaves Lucca open for another attack(which means her death). Attacking the Ape means another counter, which most likely kills Lucca. Even after reviving the enemy will attack long before Lucca or Robo can heal.
It will most likely be possible with better Equipment(Better armor, Speed increasing items, Better weapons, maybe even Shield item) and higher Level. For now, I think I'll just ignore this fight and try to go on...I might be because I never really used Lucca and Robo besides the points I had to.
We might insert this "Exchange equipment with all party member" at the beginning of the chapter(like I wanted it before the Marle Chapter), this might make things easier.
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Before you get too far into planning, does fighting two of the Reptile time travelers work with the plot?
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As far as I can tell? Two of the reptite time travellers die atop T.T. The third one (who was travelling through time and with Marle at the time) comes back and finds his two friends dead and travels to the future which has reverted back to human future because Crono stopped King Zeal.
Cyber- There will definitely be shops after run2. However I'll look into updating those enemies when I get to the Robo/Lucca chapter in run 2.
--JP
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Lucca/Robo:
Well, the only way I defeated the Cave Ape + Lizardactyl was to put the Lizard top sleep and play attack, heal, attack, heal etc. with Robo(Lucca did nearly no damage(~50), with either magic or weapon)...We should switch this fight to maybe a Lizardactyl and a Reptite? and the next(2 Reptites + Cave Ape) should be reduced by 1 Reptite. Or maybe just switch all Cave Apes to Fossil Apes...
Also, the 3 Gigasaur(if I recall right) in front of the cell Marle was kept in must be replaced, you can hardly beat them with Crono/Magus/Glenn, so Lucca and Robo stand no chance.
What kind of enemy should the vision serpent(or whatever the bosses name is) be?
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Marle Chapter Nr.2:
Basher(the boss) needs less attack, without much luck and the Confuse Bow you have no chance.
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Central Regime:
- Krawlie should get some different attacks, because I find these masses of Krawlies rather boring. How about a poison all attack at the beginning? I mean, the first Krawlie was in the sewer, not the cleanest place. And maybe an attack like Azala Break(reducing HP overtime), if both poison and this can be combined. That, and his normal attack(his "hp down to 1" can't be used if he uses poison or something equal, would be to unfair), should make him a bit more interesting. Also, his dead animation should be changed to that of a normal enemy(if possible).
- The Display(enemy that heals with 1000) should have more HP, I would suggest 500. It should also be used more often.
- Maybe lower the Proto 3 healing? He gets like 400 HP recovered, and without techs and magic I only do about 350. Maybe half it?
- What should the boss be? I didn't read the whole plot stuff, so I don't know if he is an enemy we already fought.
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Masamune rescue:
- Hench need less HP, 2000 just takes to long(maybe 1500?)
- Grimalkin needs less attack(he kills all my party members with mere 2 attacks each, doing about 200 dmg per attack, this means fun when facing 3 of them)
- Green Imps should be slower, and the 4 Green Imps fight in Kashmir's Lair (left passage) should be reduced to 3.
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Magus initial equipment needs to be changed, or made weaker, because he has more defense than any other, even being a level lower. Same goes for attack, but this might change when treasures and Shops are implemented.
Also, if possible, Dark Bomb needs to be weakend. Even though it's costs (8 MP) are rather high, it is far to strong(it does ~ 2000 to a Hench, and ~ 800 to other enemies, while normal attacks do only about 100). Maybe lower costs to 6 or 5 and half it's damage? Or lower the Magic stat of Magus, if possible. Spamming Dark Bombs makes this game far to easy at that point...
Small Edit 1.):
- The Omnicrone in Kasmir's Lair(just before Slash teleports) needs more HP, he died in 1 hit...
- Maybe change the Guard and the 2 Diabolos right after you return to 1002 A.D. to some stronger enemies?
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Seriously amazing feedback Cyber keep it up :)
A couple quick notes:
* Dark bomb will be a simple fix
* Not sure what you mean by what kind of enemy, like whats her innate or what kind of attacks would she use?
* yea 3 gigasaurs is way to hard I agree.......do they still appear even if you beat them with CMG?
* Krawlies are suppose to be replaced by a "mech enemy" assuming we ever find a spriter.....he does need a new AI
* Magus will be slightly difficult to equip cause I believe we only have about 4 weapons for him. We'll have to refine him
* Omnicrone definitely needs new stats and AI it was an unused enemy
* I'll see what enemies are left for the guard/diablos fight it shouldn't be to hard to find unused mystics.
--JP
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Two of the reptite time travellers die atop T.T. The third one (who was travelling through time and with Marle at the time) comes back and finds his two friends dead and travels to the future which has reverted back to human future because Crono stopped King Zeal.
These are the Reptile time travelers in the plot outline:
Coyopa: Killed in 1002 A.D. by CMG in the Reptile timeline, and offscreen by Lucca and Robo when the timeline is restored.
Cakulha: Captures Marle in Reptile 1 A.D., causes trouble in human 2302 A.D.
Yaluk: Met in 64,999,998 B.C. after the timeline is restored.
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Hm...I don't understand why Coyopa has to be killed twice? I suppose it'll be easy enough to add a scene where Yaluk crawls to the portal after CMG leave. Looks like we did Calkulha correctly.
--JP
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First of all:
* Not sure what you mean by what kind of enemy, like whats her innate or what kind of attacks would she use?
Exactly. I wasn't sure if there are some plot details revealing what she can do etc..
* yea 3 gigasaurs is way to hard I agree.......do they still appear even if you beat them with CMG?
Not sure, I will try to check it later.
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During the Mystic's Attack in 1002 A.D.(during the Guardia Porre meeting):
* Reapers need more Hit %, the only attack that really hits is the life sucking(which should be a bit stronger, because they seem to use it less frequently), other attacks(HP to 1, and 1 damage) hit very rarely.
*Sorcerers: We have to consider: Marle is forced in the party, and Sorcerers absorb her Magic + Her physical damage is nearly nothing. So we have a maximum of 2 damage dealers. I used Magus and Glenn, yet it took ages to beat 2 Sorcerers..I would say:
- Less HP, they have 4000, and they heal about 400(200 HP recovered for all enemies per heal) every 2 rounds if they go like: Both Heal, both destructive zone, both heal...I barely do 600 damage, and after they heal, 200 remains. ~ 40 round just to beat _one_ sorcerer...
- Less healing power or never 2 at the same time.
I think 1500 HP with a heal of 100 each might be more possible. This would be 2 rounds for 200 HP healing if there are 2 Sorcerers, me dealing 600 damage in these 2 rounds mean a total of ~ 8 Rounds to kill one sorcerer. We should also consider to slow them down a bit if we want 2 of them in the boss fight...but that might be overkill.
* Mages need more HP, but I think we already used them in the Chronopolis raid? Maybe some Green Imps, because they were just recently used and should be strong enough. But maybe it would be to repetitive.
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Boss: 2 Sorcerers + Giga Mutant
* Giga Mutant needs less attack: Glenn has ~400, Magus 340, Marle ~325;
His shining bits kills me instantly even with omnishield and full HP,
His gas/sleep attacks does like 250 damage to one()+ Sleep,
His Gas/poison does ~ 130 to all + poison
His red bubble does about 350 damage
* These 2 added Sorcerers with their current stats make this fight impossible(see above);
We have to either stat down the sorcerers as mentioned above, or use only one. But this would destroy the summoning scene.
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That's it for now.
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As for Vision serpant his is from the plot thread it'll be portrayed when the dialogue is added:
So, they eventually decided to relinquish their individual ambitions and their free will to the Vision Serpent -- a central, Elemental AI which would control them collectively and establish a society that would have a wiser, better focused vision of what's good and what's bad for the planet. Whereas the Vanguards are the embodiment of misguided zeal, the future Reptites are the embodiment of... whatever the opposite is called, misguided collectivism and dislike of personal ambitions or something.
By this point in Round 1 I figured that since I began assuming that the weapons and armor would make a substantial difference so I erred on the side of difficult. I want to keep sorcerers strong cause I use them for the rest of the game. I can have the mutant kill one of them when it first appears and the rest of the time I'll make sure there's only one per fight.
I totally forgot I put those mages there...
--JP
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Hmm, I see. Could you then make this boss fight losable again Or tell me a way to get into the debug room without having to get a New Game + file? Or would it be preferred that I start again, which I need to to after "finishing" my first run anyways, in order to do some more adjustments?
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hm....i'll leave the choice up to you. I've made that battle as well as the battles for porre lab losable (they also used terra mutants). An argument can be made for both starting over and continuing. Continuing is useful cause you catch bugs and obvious mistakes like me (like forgetting to set exp/gold i seem to do quite often), and enemies that aren't even close to being right (the mages that i didn't realize we had used before...). However you are right were going to need a second run through to have a better feel for the equipment. I would probably prefer if you tried to keep going so I can get a further head start on you in round 2.
Also have you tried pressing abxy on the crono's fridge to enter the debug room?
EDIT:
Cyber you also mentioned that ice is to cheap for marle, do you think we should increase all the lvl one spells or just Marles?
--JP
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If someone is going through from scratch can you take note if you find any bad item stats for example a weapon or armor that either jumps way to high or is actually weaker than the weapon/armor offered previously.. Hopefully it shouldn't happen cause I just used the same order as before but it may happen with elemental armors or if i just plain screwed up :?
Note that since were stuck with limited weapons for magus his initial weapon will be strong and then nothing for a few chapters then super strong again then nothing for a few chapters..
--JP
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I think I will go on with my first run for now.
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The fridge doesn't work, at least for me, because it somehow doesn't start the input sequence(where button functions are disabled, so you don't enter party changing menu etc. while entering the code; Maybe it was disabled after the demo?), so everytime I try it, I end up opening a menu...
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For MP costs, I think we should try to raise all of them, because raising the costs for someone who has more MP, yet keep them cheap for someone who has less MP doesn't seem to be fair. If someone can use lvl 1 spell for 2 MP, and has 10 MP and is physically strong, it's not fair to someone with 20 MP, and a lvl 1 spell cost of 4 MP who is physically weak(for example Crono-Marle).
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I would say put Enemy Ai stuff in a new topic. It doesn't even have to be stickied considering the only none sticky thread that is used is the one with the patches.
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Porre Lap:
- In general enemies need either more HP, or preferable more magic def, because you can easily wipe them all out with a few magic blasts.
- If there are 2 Terra Mutants in one fight, they both start with their Red Rocks attack(the one the Volcano enemies dows if I remember correctly), and after that, they do nothing until one of them dies.*
- Add some other enemies of available, for example Mutants(the one from the future), or security robots? Lots of Terra Mutants just become boring.
- Alien(the boss enemy) needs a new name, and some attacks(he doesn't attack at all...) also more HP. He is a biological experiment/weapon, so maybe some attcks that cause poison and slow? *
* means: also added in bug report thingy.
By the way, should everythign I mentioned above be added there, or only the ones more or less bugs? I'm not sure if it's easier for you if I add all the things there, yet you added an "enemy stat" category.
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Go ahead and add enemy stat modifications as bugs. I basically treat them the same way.
--JP
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The Lavos fight in Crono's Flamedungeon is should not be won, right? Should it be made impossible(even on a new game +)? Or should we just leave it as it is, and give a nifty item if someone beats him?
Same Question about the king Zeal fight in Magus' Flamedungeon.
How about the Magus vs Glenn in Glenn's Flamedungeon? This one seems like it must be won, so we must lower Magus atk(esp. magic) and HP, because Glenn's level mostly likely won't meet the CT level he had at this encounter.
Edit: Oh, and I think I put the wrong chapter all the time(19 instead of 18) at the bug report list, because I think I read that chapter 18 would be skipped, and we start at chapter 19, so that's the one I put there...Hope it's not much of a problem.
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Hm...
Robo has atropos thats a unique battle
Crono has lavos (unique)
Marle has yakra (unique)
Frog has Magus (unique)
Lucca has blue robots (not unique)
Magus has king zeal (not unique)
Ayla (sigh) hasn't been done yet.
For the majority of these enemies this the only time we fight them. We should be able to swap out for a new king zeal and blue robots and make all of the flame dungeon bosses optional (giving prizes if we win). We can't give good weapons cause we are running out but we have alot of helmets and armor left over. Also we haven't even begun to touch accessories.
Another idea, we have tons of rare items (pendant/ruby knife/yakra key/ tomas pop/ moonstone) etc. Not to mention fangs and the other prehistoric currency. We could maybe reward them with these rare items and if they get 8 of them (they'd have to definitely play through multiple times cause the max you can get is 3) then you get a special....something.
--JP
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Could there really be an Item worth having that much work(3 playthroughs) that is not just for collectors? The only thing I can imagine is something that makes you play a different character you usually couldn't(seem rather impossible) or some kind of secret dungeon that is ultra hard, which seems to be too far fetched....
We could give single Items if you beat a Boss, like maybe a Tech Point Doubler? Or something that gives More exp? Or something that grant the character that wears it Tech point even if he is outside of the party? I'm not sure if that's even possible...Or useful, because if we make these bosses far to strong, people who beat them won't need any techpoints anymore because of their high level. Maybe we should(if it is possible) add them as other accessories?
Or maybe Elemental Accessories? Like, Half Damage from fire. This way, if we still have elemental armor and elemental Helmets, we could easiely do very strong magic enemies without having to fear people having no chance.(they could reduce 3 of 4 elements, not to forget Magic Barrier).
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I presume the Spekkio fight needs a new AI? I mean, he does about 9999 damage with his Luminaire...How about giving him a sprite he didn't have in CT? And he is like : "don't recognize me? Maybe a little fight helps you memories" and they fight or whatever.
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It's unlikely that we are going to get a new spriter for speekio (or are you talking about giving him a "new" existing sprite?). In the current run through I have put almost all the elemental armors in reptiteland.
I have no idea how to make "new accessories" the only thing we can really do is use existing accessories. Maybe after run 2 I'll try to figure out if there's ways to combine enemies. I'm surprised there's not an accessory that increases exp...
One thing we can do is make the fang/petal/feather items that can be used to create the "ultimate armor" (from melchior). But like you said is it worth it to go through the game multiple times? Maybe the bosses just give TONS of those and you then we can create a dungeon where they can get them slowly?
--JP
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If we don't get a new sprite, we might as well use an old CT one he didn't have yet. He should just have a different colour, as usual.
Is it even possible to just use an existing sprite, an give it a new colour without the need of a spriter? Like, instead of a Son of Sun, maybe dye him blue and let him use ice attacks and name him Son of Ice or whatever.
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Hm......actually that's a good idea for a replacement for Son of Sun as well. Son of......iceberg haha..we'll work on the name.
Speekio we can replace another sprite and give a brand new AI really easily. Switching palettes definitely doesn't need a spriter just takes a little patience to find one that looks good. If anyone has any sprite suggestions for speekio let me know.....off the top of my head he used
frog/kilwala/masa + mune / omnicrone/ pink nu
um......we have imps/gargoyles/ freelancer/ goblins/ black omen enemies....quite a bit to pick from. Lets try to stay away from mutants because we just saw those...we also just saw alot of these in the flame dreams...
hm...
Great idea cyber,
--JP
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I can't seem to remember, but is Dalton in the first chapter supposed to beat you? If yes, new AI, if no, he needs less HP and should be slower(so it doesn't seem t much like Iron Orb spam...)
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I'll just put the items like tabs and chests here and to the bug report thingy:
*Note: This is Prolog, Chapter 1 and parts of chapter 2(until the Chronopolis Raid)
Tabs:
- Magic Tab at Fionas Forest(central east)
- Power Tab stealable from Golem Boss
- Magic Tab at Beast Forest area where Masamune will be placed.
Attack Window:
- Fiona's Forest; 3 Roly fight(south); window should start on bottom
- Beast Forest: 2 Beast fight(central); window should start on bottom
Items:
- How about a present from Elder in Dark Ages after talking to Sargon? 3 Mid Tonics or something?
- Jinn Bottles should have Ether stealable.
- Dalton should have Mid Ether stealable.
Chests:
- Treasure in Central Regime(maybe in Storage room or whatever it is, left of the 3 doors and in he prison?
- The HyperEther in the tower to the right of the throneroom (1002 A.D.) should be exchanged for a Mid Ether.
- The Megaelixier in the tower to the right of the throneroom (1002 A.D.) should be exchanged, maybe for a "Top End"? helmet?
- The Elixier in the tower to the left of the throneroom (1002 A.D.) should be exchanged, maybe the next stronger weapon for Marle(because she didn't have a cheap one in a Shop like Crono and didn't find one like Lucca yet)
- The Full Ether in the tower to the left of the throneroom (1002 A.D.) should be exchanged, maybe for like 500 G.
- The HyperEther in the tower above the Kitchen (1002 A.D.) should be exchanged for a Mid Ether.
- Add a Chest in the Mall(Future), reward people who explore a lot.
Shop:
- You get Snipershot in Chronopolis, which is stronger than Quantashot you can buy at Porre and find in the Camp(maybe exchange them, yet you didn't even have a fight until after you found both).
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If you got time, might you lower Kashmirs Magic Attack in the next patch (as mentioned in the bug report)? Otherwise I'm kinda stuck, because even if one survives his first Fire 2, there is far to less time to fully heal and revive, thus the 2nd fire 2 most likely kills the rest of. We also have to remember that Revives are currently rather expensive.
Or he could get a none-area attack like Fire 1, or maybe that blue fire attack from Slash that only hits one character.
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I'm attaching a fix that ONLY changes kasmirs AI. That means you can apply it to the rom that you are currently working on. I made a post in the Another topic to find a rom thread that explains why you may not want to use brand new crimson echoes patches during this run through...in short it moves around treasure chests data so if you open a chest and then apply a fresh CE patch that chest may not be opened anymore...and worse another chest you never touched might be open. This patch will only affect kasmirs AI so you can apply to any unheadered rom....includeing the current crimson echoes rom you are using.
--JP
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I think we should tweak Kashmir a bit, his counter and evasion are annoying...
So, maybe lower his evasion stat a little? And add a "Wander" to his counter?
AI Hit:
if( TRUE )
choose random action
Wander
Attack
Or change his counter to only physical counter(so people can use magic without being countered)?
AI Hit:
if( physical attack )
Attack
I think both would be overkill.
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I just went through the decision Part, and it somehow doesn't seem very balanced...
Doing nothing offers most in my opinion(speed tab + Rage band + 2500 G(maybe lower to 2.000G?) + Porre Beret + Knavehelm , the 3rd or 4th by now, and you only have 2 females). Exchange the Knavehelm for another Iron helm maybe? This should be the base for comparison.
Helping mystics is too easy(every Porrean is killed in 1 hit), so if we can, we should use some different enemies. You get a rather good armor for that. Maybe you should be able to talk to the other mystics that are around the elder and they should give you like a magic tab + a magic ring(mystics use magic), and a helmet that cuts magic damage?
Helping Porre in comparison is too hard, well only the boss fight is. Maybe the soldier could kill one of the Goblins to make it a bit easier? Otherwise the player would have to rely on magic too much, which doesn't seem to be Glenn's style anyways. The Mud Imp should also be slowed down a bit, otherwise the damage you do can barely reach what he heals every few rounds, considering you have to heal a lot and sleep sometimes. You have to be lucky that he doesn't heal for a few rounds and doesn't put you to sleep...
Do I see that right that you get nothing for Helping Porre? Or did I miss something?
Well, you should at least get a Power Tab + Power Scarf + maybe 10.000 G with the hint to buy something at Tata's shop? People could chose what to do with that money.
That way, we would have he magic way: Help Mystics, get magic tab + a magic ring + Fireproof Armor + elemtalproof helmet;
The Offensive way: Power Tab + Power Scarf + 10.000 G;
And the other way: Speed tab + Rage band + 2000 G + Porre Beret + Iron Helm
Any opinions?
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we are kind of running out of helmets right now so I'm not sure we can add a new one for the mystic choice. I do like the "magic" vs power theme for porre vs mystics. It seems like since we have 3 for porre three items for mystics isn't that bad. Plus elemental armor is pretty awesome. IIRC the defense on the elemental armor is almost...bug worthy high? (maybe you already submitted a bug for that I haven't checked yet)
As for neutral we want this to be "the obvious choice" for people who save state before hand but it turns out doing this well make all the shops close 1002....(and we should probably close them in 602...that's a bug). One problem right now is I think the "closed" shops are selling old stuff so it doesn't really affect the player...but we can make them pretty good shops. In fact we could make the shops selll the items you would get + more for a decent price.
--JP
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So there will be a "right" and "wrong" choice? Like neutral=wrong->shops closed, yet a few items?
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Crono Emerald Dream:
- Power Tab in Forest you have to kill enemies in order to get the Elemental Armor? Maybe at the beginning on the west near the bushes(or whatever it is).
- How about a Chest in the area that is two areas west of shop & inn with a lone reptite? Maybe give it a full ether?
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So there will be a "right" and "wrong" choice? Like neutral=wrong->shops closed, yet a few items?
Hm....I dont think we wanted there to be an obvious "right" and "wrong" it's suppose to be a real moral dilemna....though choosing neutral is pretty mean :)
How about this l i guess choosing neutral you would get a little "physical", and a little "magical" and by choosing either side you get alot of one.
By choosing porre only the porre shop is open in the future
By choosing Medina only the Medina shop is open
So those shops probably shouldn't sell their enemies equpiment. So by choosing neutral you get a little of both worlds some physical and magical items but you only get what is at the battleground since the shops are closed. By choosing either side you are stuck with just that sides items. But you can buy it for the whole team since the shops will be open.
How does that sound?
--JP
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Sounds like a good idea. We even consider the people who play a NG+, and try a different choice, and go like "wow, this choice was in fact far better than the more obvious one".
You said : "By choosing porre only the porre shop is open in the future", so Tata will still sell his very strong weapons? Like he doesn't care what happened, he still sees them as friends, and more importantly, as customers.
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Lucca ED: Robot Village(beginning Area):
- Add a Speed Tab, maybe in the Hall area to the east, where a crate and some tins are, kinda like searching the trash.
- In the area you wake up in is a chest, yet you can't open it. We should insert a Dash Ring(seems like making fun of the two slowies haha).
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Kasmir is REALLY hard. Robo and Crono are Level 12, and Frog is Level 11; Frog has Gilt Sword, Iron Helm, XocotlSuit, PowerGlove; Crono has Jade Hilt, KnaveHelm, XocotlSuit, PowerGlove; Robo has Strainger, Iron Helm, Cabrakan, Defender.
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VisionSerpent is extremely hard. Lucca is 21 and Robo 22. I'm going to level up a bit and try again.
Edit: 23 and 24 now...if there were just a way to heal more than one person at a time.
Edit: 24 and 25 even with Heal Beam, still failing. It MIGHT be more fair without area bomb. Either Area Bomb or the red light thing that takes a LOT of damage.
Edit: Okay, 25 and 26, I was able to pull it off even though I had to use a Lapis. One more round and I would have been dead. Taking out Area Bomb should be enough to keep it challenging but not ridiculous.
Edit Next: Lizardactyls in Chapter 9 are really hard. Perhaps we could put a small mushroom enemy before they walk over there (one that respawns) so that the player can level up if needed? Or wait...they're still very, very hard. Maybe tone down Lizardactyls in general a bit. No other enemy is that hard in that chapter.
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I lowered the stats of the 3 enemies zeality mentioned. I removed area bomb and put some other attack.....it still hits everyone but seems to be weaker. It's hard for me to tell cause i dont have a game there.
From now on when we get to an enemy who we feel we need to lower the stats of we should make a copy of the srm and give it an easy to understand name liek
kasmir_fight_lvl_12.srm.
--JP
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Avion Rex and GigaSaur are horribly unfair especially when you're group splits into 2. I can't even get 3 rounds in a battle without being blasted to death and losing 1-2 party members in the 2nd round.
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Last call for new enemy AI Tweaks! Barring a sudden 1000% surge in beta testing I'll be doing an enemy AI run through tomorrow. I suggest anyone that cares check what enemy is currently in my "test area" (gato's exhibit), load up the AI editor and give the enemy in gato's exhibit different techs. More than likely inside the AI editor when you go to that page you'll see a "tech node" and on the left side you can choose the tech number from the drop down (or just type it in). Try attacks from this page:
http://chronocompendium.com/Term/Attacks.html
It can be tempting to just look at that page and be like "Hey jp have the boss do this this this and this". And well....if you really want to i obviously can't stop you but I'd prefer if you did try it out with the AI editor first. Some of these attacks are really designed specifically for a certain boss and so the animations just simply don't add up when you apply to another sprite.
Some notes for myself:
If both reptites are alive at top of dinopolis use 4B - Antipode (Does not need two enemies to use) (i didn't realize enemies could do this) ( CHECK )
If both reptites are alive at top of dinopolis use F4 - X Strike freezes game, probably needs to be in both enemies but other reptite has no room
Give King Zeal :
6B - Dark Matter Waiting for chrono 99
56 - Dreamless (this attack is awesome where the hell is it in the game????) Waiting for chrono 99
58 - Obstacle (Lavos's attack, Chaos) Waiting for chrono 99
Have a boss that gives a 10% chance of casting
02 - "X" (Lock) Check
12 - MP suck attack
57 - MP Buster (Target loses all MP) Check
Make sure tyrano casts:
77 - Chaos breath? Check
Test out kasmirs sprite with:
97 - Fire Sword (Does not need two enemies to use) ( I think slash uses this...so it's very unlikely the animations will add up with kasmir) Check had to tweak it
Water reptite:
59 - Blue circle attack? no room
--JP