Chrono Compendium
Enhasa Halls - Chrono Series Analysis => Characters, Plot, and Themes => Topic started by: 2-Tone Tony on December 01, 2015, 03:00:49 pm
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What's up, everyone. So, I've finally registered here having been a shadow-member for years, and I wanted to put forth a theory I've had for quite awhile. It has to do with Crono and exactly who his ancestors were.
Clearly we never got to meet his father and no one else seems to be related to him canonically from what I've found, but I postulate that he may be a descendant of Cyrus.
In the flashback just before Frog splits the entrance to the Magic Cave in half, we see Glenn getting picked on in Guardia Forest and Cyrus comes to his rescue. Granted, he's a generic sprite for this scene, but we can glean a few things from it still. I would assume he's around the same age as Crono is throughout CT in this scene. He has red hair and is even wearing the same color tunic.
Later, we see him on Zenan Bridge, probably the most iconic sprite of Cyrus simply because it's unique. His hair is less red, but it's spiked up and he's wearing a headband. As far as I can remember, he and Crono are the only ones to use this motif within the game.
Another example is his character art, but we don't have a lot to work with here because of all the armor. He DOES appear to have blue eyes and his face resembles Crono's. Then again, that could just be Akira's art style and a lot of the male characters look similar. I imagine he still has spiky hair under that helmet, though.
Other evidence includes the fact that they're both swordsmen and both presumably from Truce. Nothing was ever mentioned about Cyrus having a wife or family, however I would assume he did considering his likely age at this point. Although, a counter to this argument would be that if he DID have a family, chances are we would have met them at some point.
And I also think Frog almost immediately taking a liking to Crono might have to do with his resemblance to his old buddy. That's a bit of a stretch, though, I suppose.
It's not a perfect theory, but it's just something I've had in my brain-pan for a long while. Let me know what you guys think!
Also, I'm super proud to finally be a part of this site officially and not just in the shadows. Looking forward to it!
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You know... It's a cool thought. Gina (Crono's mom) even matches with her blond hair and blue-ish eyes.
But I also think that if Cyrus had family we'd have a glimpse of them in the game when he went to look for Magus, begging him not go or something.
If not Chrono, maybe Dario and Glenn (the Chrono Cross one) could be related to Cyrus.
Man, I wish Cyrus had more scenes in Trigger.
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I can see it. Headcanon now.
In one of Glenn's flashbacks, we see him and Cyrus traveling to fight the Frog King for the Hero's Badge. During the fight, we see an NPC of a young woman behind Cyrus. Glenn's sprite has also been replaced by an identical young man with red/orange hair, and Glenn himself isn't present in this scene, oddly. I don't know who these two characters are, but maybe they have a connection to Cyrus.
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I just re-watched that scene. I never noticed that. It's very odd. Those two characters come out of nowhere and Gleen is nowhere to be found. But it seems to be just a major overlook from the devs.
If anyone want to watch it, you can see it in this video, on the 6:00 mark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFN40S5_5js (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFN40S5_5js)
EDIT: Now that I'm thinking about it, I think it's just Gleen. His hair color just changed because they did a color swap of the green of the whole scene. And the girl behind him, could be just someone the Frog King kidnapped.
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I like this theory, but yeah, all Cyrus does when he dies is ask to protect the queen, nothing about his kids.
Unless... he didn't know about them..?
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Firstly welcome!
I do remember seeing these two NPCs uring one of my playthroughs. I always just thought it was a couple of people Cyrus was saving from the Frog King. Seemed pretty cliche but why not?
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Thread necromancy!
I actually think this is a great theory and flew under my radar until now. The evidence presented are interesting, if cosmetic only with no in-game "factage" to back it up:
(1) Teen Cyrus (who protects young Glenn in Guardia Forest) had red hair
(2) Young Adult Cyrus (who is seen with teenage Glenn on Zenan Bridge) has spiky hair (although not as spiky as Crono's) and a headband
(3) Both are sword-swinging hombres
The only hole I have to poke in this theory was that Cyrus was from Choras, not Truce as mentioned by OP.
It definitely brings about something to consider for headcanon! Myself and others had toyed with the theory that Leene could have had an illegitimate love child with Cyrus (those who would remember the defunct Angellus Errare: Heroes Unsung knew that this was a plot twist in the synopsis), but I hadn't ever considered Crono himself being an heir of Cyrus.
To be honest, I think early jRPGs almost always have wiggle room for expanding lore. This generation of games often had data/gameplay constraints and thus had less opportunity for non-mandatory exposition. Outside of a few outliers, it seems like character family structure was almost always left out. I definitely think that, hypothetically at least, Cyrus could have had a wife and/or child. It doesn't fit into canon with evidence, but it doesn't decry it, either.
I'm adopting this into headcanon. Done!
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I've heard of this theory and I think it's definitely plausible! Very interesting indeed. :)
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The only hole I have to poke in this theory was that Cyrus was from Choras, not Truce as mentioned by OP.
As far as I can remember, we're never told where Cyrus is from.
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If my memory serves me right, when you do the Hero's Grave side quest, there is a line somewhere about Choras being Cyrus' hometown. I could be wrong though.
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Looking at the script, Cyrus is only stated to be Choras's guardian, since that's where his grave is (and once the side-quest is done, of course). Nothing about being his hometown, though.
If anything, it seems he was Guardian to begin with.
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Looking at the script, Cyrus is only stated to be Choras's guardian, since that's where his grave is (and once the side-quest is done, of course). Nothing about being his hometown, though.
It sounds like I am totally guilty of fan theorizing on a Chrono project inserted this into my brain. I stand corrected.
I always wondered how he would've come from Choras and ended up in Truce/Guardia. I guess that explains it -- his grave is simply there.
That being said, that raises the question of why he is buried in Choras and not, you know, in the country where he was a hero.
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It sounds like I am totally guilty of fan theorizing on a Chrono project inserted this into my brain. I stand corrected.
I always wondered how he would've come from Choras and ended up in Truce/Guardia. I guess that explains it -- his grave is simply there.
That being said, that raises the question of why he is buried in Choras and not, you know, in the country where he was a hero.
I would think by ship. Even if we never see it or we're told there is. I mean, Toma traveled from the mainland to Choras. I would think there is the means to travel, just not accesible to the party.
Maybe that's it. Glenn/Frog was the one who took him there. Perhaps he thought it would be demorilizing if he was buried near Guardia and someone found the grave. In-game, some NPC's still think Cyrus is still alive, after all. Choras is far enough away, and placing him in the northern ruins was deterrent enough, since ghosts haunt the place. Not the best plan, considering how Cyrus ended up at first, but it worked in concealing his death to the world.
But well, now that's just my headcannon as to why Frog did that.
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https://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Cyrus_(Burial_of).html
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It's mostly speculative, but as good of an answer as we could expect...
...but also brought this bad boy back up:
Wanting to hide the events, he bore Cyrus away to Choras (the possible hometown of Cyrus or Frog, based on comments in 1000 A.D.)
Now I gotta go look for the dialogue, doggonit!
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There comes a large problem with the theory that Crono is a result of an illegitimate love child with the Queen and Cyrus: Both Crono and Princess Nadia are descendants of the same royal bloodline. Any children that would come from this union would be slightly out of incest, (regardless of intent or not).
I suppose that goes right along with medieval times stereotypes of royals inbreeding though.
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There comes a large problem with the theory that Crono is a result of an illegitimate love child with the Queen and Cyrus: Both Crono and Princess Nadia are descendants of the same royal bloodline. Any children that would come from this union would be slightly out of incest, (regardless of intent or not).
I suppose that goes right along with medieval times stereotypes of royals inbreeding though.
If it's just Leene who is the common ancestor, then there would be 400 years worth of generations to dilute the blood (around 13, if we consider the numeral designations of the Guardia kings of both eras) enough that it wouldn't matter.
Heck, the probabilities of any incest-related issues are gone as soon as it's between second cousins. Even with first cousins it is a very negligible rise, that the taboo (where it exists) is more social than genetical.
So yeah, no issues there.
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This is so interesting! Crono would be of royal blood and not even realize it! Hmmmm... :o
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There comes a large problem with the theory that Crono is a result of an illegitimate love child with the Queen and Cyrus: Both Crono and Princess Nadia are descendants of the same royal bloodline. Any children that would come from this union would be slightly out of incest, (regardless of intent or not).
I suppose that goes right along with medieval times stereotypes of royals inbreeding though.
True. Even if it's diluted as AcaciaSgt mentioned, it would still be sort of icky from a story perspective.
I remember when, in the television series Dexter, it was revealed that Deb and Dexter (two siblings) weren't actually related and Deb was adopted. The show then made them a couple and I'm pretty sure 99% of the fans thought it was super weird, especially having known them as siblings for half a dozen seasons.
Regardless, yeah, Cyrus and Leene don't have to have a love child. That was just a plot thread that was considered for the defunct fangame, and even then Crono never factored into the Cyrus bloodline.
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I only got two seasons into Dexter, and decided to stop after being spoilered to the (rather stupid, in my opinion) ending. But they made Deb and him a couple too?? :o
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But they made Deb and him a couple too??
Apparently. I only watched half a season and couldn't get into it. It was a season with John Lithgow (who I love) as the villain.
I heard the first season, maybe two, are tops. And it was a solid downhill slope from there.
But yes, eventually Dexter and Deb got together and it about broke the internet with it's cringe-worthiness. I think they broke them up pretty quickly due to fan backlash.
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I suppose that's proof the Westermack Effect applies not only to the subjects in question, but also the witnesses. :lol:
Anyway, hmm, wouldn't know if it would've really been icky story-wise, but well, that's probably because I do think 400 years is way more than enough time to separate relations. I'd think that happens in real life more often that one may think...
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Completely off topic but will set the record straight, because I actually enjoyed that show. *spoiler alert* lol
Dexter was the adopted son, because Their Dad, Harry, a cop, found him abandoned and surrounded by blood. Deb started having mental health issues and later found out she had latent romantic feeling towards Dexter. Dexter never reciprocated these feeelings though. She dies in the end anyways.
The mixup might be where the actors who played Dex and Deb actually got together in real life and were temporarily married.
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Dexter was the adopted son, because Their Dad, Harry, a cop, found him abandoned and surrounded by blood. Deb started having mental health issues and later found out she had latent romantic feeling towards Dexter. Dexter never reciprocated these feeelings though. She dies in the end anyways.
The mixup might be where the actors who played Dex and Deb actually got together in real life and were temporarily married.
Setting the record straight! Thanks for keeping me honest. I only saw the season with the Trinity Killer, so my over-encompassing lore is minimal.
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OoooohhOOOOOhhhh!!! More thread necromancy!
I was going to post this in the general chat starting a whole new thread, but thought I'd look to see if there were an existing thread first. Glad I did.
So, here's what I was going to post on the subject...
(https://www.udrop.com/cache/plugins/filepreviewer/110367/667d6b96ca985ca1cf491434c8ea34b1effd087e5876a5f7835bac447b51d4b9/180x150_cropped.jpg) (https://www.udrop.com/8R0b/WMGImage.jpg)
Between replaying the game to tighten the canon agreement wherever possible while editing my massive story, and finally grabbing hold of enough of an inspiration to finally write a decent big boss battle (which is why this story has been unfinished for decades) my fanfic mind is pouncing upon and worrying at the least unexplained things in Chrono Trigger like a terrier with a bone.
I do not want to get distracted into writing a shiny 'new' story (which is what Graven is – I was trying to work on Shadows of Schala but Glenn just wouldn't SHUT UP and leave me alone, oh I'm not mad, I like Graven and I love writing Glenn no matter what shape he's in, but I have got to focus or it's going to be another couple of decades before I finish the first Chrono Trigger story I started to write and that just makes me feel like a failure and – yeah. Glenn, sweetie, please let me focus and oh, no, Cyrus is starting to want fanfic, too! O.O!) so I am going to post the bare bones of the concept here, like I did with the Gurus' Gambit/Norstein Bekkler idea, just to get it out of my mind – for the moment.
And it's just fun to share these off-the-wall story seeds with you to see what you think.
Chrono Trigger – A Point to Ponder – Crono's Ancestry
This theory is admittedly far-fetched, but my hope is it will be deemed 'plausible'. I read somewhere that Crono's mother is named Gina (or Jina) in the Japanese version of the game, but that even in that version there is no information about Crono's father.
Bear with me here. It's always bugged me that there is a sprite of a young adult woman near teen-Glenn (as I am currently sporting purple hair at the moment, I do not believe this individual is anyone other than Glenn -- maybe in a bout of hero worship he tried to dye his hair to be more like Cyrus?) in the flashback scene where Cyrus confronts and defeats the Frog King and earns the Hero Medal. Who is she? Why is she there? What is her importance? Was she part of an adventuring team with Glenn and Cyrus on that part of their quest? What happened to her during the rest of their quest? Who is SHE?!
Someday I may just get around to writing a fully-developed story, but just suppose she is, er, 'involved' with one of our two Guardian adventurers. Sure, it could be Glenn, but far more interesting if it were Cyrus. And, suppose that she had become pregnant just before Cyrus left on his doomed quest. Pretty easy to see where I'm going with this....
While Leene's children and descendants lead ultimately to Marle's birth, this puzzling, out of place woman, who could have been a girlfriend or newly-wed wife of Cyrus', may have given birth to a child by him after he had died, and whose descendants lead ultimately to Crono's birth.
There's a pleasing narrative symmetry in this notion, and it makes Frog's quip that Crono might one day become a passable swordsman all the more humorous!