Chrono Compendium
Zenan Plains - Site Discussion => Polling => Topic started by: Zephira on April 06, 2009, 11:19:08 pm
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While they are both equally awesome, apparently there can only be one. Let the match begin!
(Take that, V!)
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Magil of course.
Guile still seems to be a nobody to me.
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Obviously Magil.
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I wasn't arguing the point, just that Magil is not in Chrono Cross.
Magil IS Magus where Guile only COULD HAVE BEEN Magus. Obviously Magil wins.
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I prefer Guile tbh, he has the awesome sides from Magil, but he also has some nice traits like drinking and searching out enigma.
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Definitely Magil--although I'll take the original over either, temper and all.
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SCYTHE YES
As cool as Guile was, he really wasn't in comparison to Magus and Magil. Guile's level three attack was nifty in that it hit all the baddies at once, but... so does Razzly's. And even then, it's not all that accurate and scythes are more awesome. I personally loved that one battle where you were Lynx with a scythe. I wish you could've kept it afterwards...
Magil > Guile. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
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Magil uses a scythe? I thought he only used magic and karate.
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I really should play to Radical Dreamers one of these days, Magil seems to be an interesting character if he can stand the comparison with Guile.
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Not all that interesting. Actually, he doesn't say much during the entire game. Sometimes he doesn't even fight. How do we know he uses a scythe anyway? Let's not forget RD is another dimension.
Serge narrates the game, so nobody but him and Kid get a lot of lines, but I was pretty disappointed in Magil's character. He had his moments, like when he opened up Radius' cell, but hell, in the fight with Lynx he was immobilized 99% of the time.
And besides, that guy is too emo. I prefer a dude with a positive attitude.
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Magil.
I'll give Guile that he looks like a pimp, but Magil looks like pimp/dracula. With a hint of Phantom Of The Opera. And whether it's karate or scythe they both dominate the staff anyday.
Guile may be upbeat, but it's only cause he's drunk.
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Magil uses a scythe? I thought he only used magic and karate.
I remember him having a scythe. In the Guile to Magil hack we had here a while ago (dunno what happened) one of the main things we were trying to do is give Guile a scythe. As well as change the textures, I guess, but...
... there doesn't appear to be anything in the script, but still. I'm pretty sure Magil had something like that.
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I really should play to Radical Dreamers one of these days, Magil seems to be an interesting character if he can stand the comparison with Guile.
I'm in that exact same position.
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Magil uses a scythe? I thought he only used magic and karate.
I remember him having a scythe. In the Guile to Magil hack we had here a while ago (dunno what happened) one of the main things we were trying to do is give Guile a scythe. As well as change the textures, I guess, but...
... there doesn't appear to be anything in the script, but still. I'm pretty sure Magil had something like that.
But that was a fan project, it was solely based on the fact Magus used to have a scythe. It still doesn't mean Magil ever had a scythe in RD. In fact nothing is ever mentioned about that whatsoever. You'd think if he had a scythe, there would be a line somewhere saying "Magil swings his scythe in fury!" or something like that. However, there is none.
I'm led to believe he doesn't have one, because it's never mentioned in RD. And I don't see how you can be "pretty sure" about it in that case.
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Actually, RD is pretty specific about Magil not using any weapons:
"Even with no physical weapons of any kind, Magil looks as though he's having no trouble pulverizing the enemy with hand-to-hand tactics."
There's also an instance of him kicking a goblin in the face. But he mostly seems to stick to magic.
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In that case, I think it's safe to assume all the "Magil" fans here are really Magus fans, since you're the first one to note that. I guess the people who vote for Magil just think "Hmm Magil = Magus = Scythe", but that was obviously wrong.
Anyway, from now on voting for Magil 'cause he has a scythe is not a valid point anymore :D
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There's also an instance of him kicking a goblin in the face. But he mostly seems to stick to magic.
That HAS to be animated, that would be so awesome.
Yeah, I think the japanese RD even had a fancy name for Magil's fighting style. The closest he ever came to physical weapons was his Black Wind spell, where shafts of light turned into knife-like things. But that's magic, so that doesn't count.
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In that case, I think it's safe to assume all the "Magil" fans here are really Magus fans, since you're the first one to note that.
Actually, all it really proves is that I'm a pedant who was, at one point, doing a 2D-RPG-version-of-RD outline. I like all three of the characters (yes, even Guile), but it's Magil who manages to retain at least a little of Magus' mystique. Guile's a neat enough guy, but he lacks the hint of darkness that's still present in Magil. He feels like the kind of person who'd have a hard time being serious, and I always did like drama better than comedy.
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Guile
C'mon, I wasn't gone THAT long...A one-word post? In a polling thread? You can do better than that and you know it. This is actually a kind of interesting thread (for the polling forum), even! Your one-word post basically gives the exact same information one could acquire by looking at the poll itself.
~V_Translanka
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Magil. He's a darker character, but his story is less depressing.
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...karate still beats out staff. And it's even better when that karate is so good it forces the script to mention how he flat footed a goblin in the face!
Plus, Guile good guy when drunk stuff. He's drunk his whole way through! Like Auron from FFX! Guile just hides his booze jug more carefully...
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Also, what kind of spell name is WandaIn? Maybe he really IS a pimp...
Either way, you don't need weapons if you have (good) magic.
When Magil busts the old guy out of his jail cell, did he bend the bars because he's just that muscular, or was magic involved?
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WandaIn/インボディー(InBody)
Well, the JPN name is even more funny. :picardno
When Magil busts the old guy out of his jail cell, did he bend the bars because he's just that muscular, or was magic involved?
Pure muscular power IMO.
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You're amazing, utunnels.
So this means he's definitely a drunken, pimpin' vagabond/street performer, wine connoisseur and bar-stalker. Awesome.
He's gotta be huge to be able to bend iron bars on just muscle power. Wonder how many pushups he had to do before he could do that.
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Wait, but how can you make such conclusion from the name?
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Accumulated evidence. He hangs out at bars and he's a wine connoisseur, he wears flashy, fruity, gaudy clothes, and he uses magic tricks to put his wand in bodies. Almost considering changing my vote.. but Magil has better development.
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The only flaw of Magil is he's almost flawless(tall, strong, handsome, erudite, discipline, cool-headed...). I'm not sure such a character is "well" developed, but I just like him. 8)
And about Guile, I don't know what if they really made him disguised Magus, would him be a wand user like current Guile? If so, sucks...
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Scythes are almost always associated with death, perhaps it's too macabre for a "good guy" to be carrying around a scythe to kill people. If they turn Guile into Magus for any upcoming CC port, I'd hope that he'd fight with a scythe, and I hope that it's exclusive to him...and Lynx.
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Not all that interesting. Actually, he doesn't say much during the entire game. Sometimes he doesn't even fight. How do we know he uses a scythe anyway? Let's not forget RD is another dimension.
Both CC and even CT start out in new timelines. I say it's just part of how the series works.
Anyways, I think it's safe to assume that Magil still has access to his Scythes if he requires (though apparently he does not)...I mean, what? You think he's just gonna throw it away or something? Magil of the Shadows, man! He's got a Bag of Holding he keeps 'em in, obviously! Magil is so badass Serge was practically going gay for him at times...
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Not all that interesting. Actually, he doesn't say much during the entire game. Sometimes he doesn't even fight. How do we know he uses a scythe anyway? Let's not forget RD is another dimension.
Both CC and even CT start out in new timelines. I say it's just part of how the series works.
Anyways, I think it's safe to assume that Magil still has access to his Scythes if he requires (though apparently he does not)...I mean, what? You think he's just gonna throw it away or something? Magil of the Shadows, man! He's got a Bag of Holding he keeps 'em in, obviously! Magil is so badass Serge was practically going gay for him at times...
In that case, seeing how Guile easily transforms his wand into a sword, I think they're equal in that respect.
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Ignore my last trolling post (which I deleted). I, myself, voted for Guile. Maybe it's because I played Chrono Cross more than Radical Dreamers, or whatever, but I like his style. If you ignore the Magus connections that people love so much, his personality is quite interesting. his witty responses and retorts are a bit of fun to spice up the game.
And, you get to see him float.
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Guile is just more fun to me. He speaks to calmly and I only saw him worried once other than that he just seems like more fun and plus you wish you had the style he had.
A toast, to all who like Guile.
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Regardless of what anyone says about amnesia or whatever, Magil actually is Magus. Guile isn't. He's an interesting character in his own right, but he doesn't really contribute much and in fact it's possible that most gamers completely skipped over him. Should they remake or port Cross, I expect Guile to be a mandatory, more fleshed-out character.
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That's something that really ticks me off about the people who say "oh hey Magus's memories getting wiped make him more connected to MAGIL somehow!"
Magil is Magus "lightening up" of his own volition, no amnesia or mood-altering substances, he was originally meant to become that guy down the line. That's really neat to me.
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I think Magil would be after he had already regained his memories since he had Kid with him...
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Regardless of what anyone says about amnesia or whatever, Magil actually is Magus. Guile isn't. He's an interesting character in his own right, but he doesn't really contribute much and in fact it's possible that most gamers completely skipped over him. Should they remake or port Cross, I expect Guile to be a mandatory, more fleshed-out character.
Guile doesn't need to be Magus to be a cool character. Besides, out of the three you can pick when you go to Viper Manor, he's by far the coolest. So that most players skipped over him is either because they were lazy and took Pierre or because they really liked Nikki. Because in all honesty I thought Nikki's path was harder then Guile's. The damn Octopuses would always eat that plant seed thingy, goddammit.
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A lot of players (maybe less than a 1/3? since the entrance to the bar is in the first screen) just didn't happen to go into the bar first...I didn't...I went to the docks and thus went through Nikki's quest (3 screens...Pierre has the most screens at 4, but is to the right, which is the direction most people go or so they say...I think it's common knowledge enough to skewer results) my first play through. Guile needs what pretty much every character in CC needs to be cool...a friggin personality that does not seem to exist. Magil was subtle, Guile was practically non-existent.
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He just doesn't really come out of the blue because he's not a character you need to have, and because there's so many other characters. Because of the amount of characters hardly any character that doesn't join through the story has a lot of unique actions. Even so, out of all of them Guile is definitely one of my favorites. I particularly like the bet with the fortune teller where you can get three outcomes.
Magil is just too anti-social for me, he may be subtle, but it's like he's desperately trying to avoid saying anything. He had his cool moments though, where Guile didn't have as many because he wasn't one of the main characters. And looking at it like that, this isn't really a fair poll at all. It's like saying, who do ya like better, Chrono or NeoFio?
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Magil is just too anti-social for me, he may be subtle, but it's like he's desperately trying to avoid saying anything.
Yeah, it's not like they were trying to sneak into a mansion to steal something or anything...>_>
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Magil is just too anti-social for me, he may be subtle, but it's like he's desperately trying to avoid saying anything.
Yeah, it's not like they were trying to sneak into a mansion to steal something or anything...>_>
Yeah and it's not like Serge noted a few times how Magil just stared at him without saying anything
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Magil is just too anti-social for me, he may be subtle, but it's like he's desperately trying to avoid saying anything.
No, I don't think Magil is as quiet as Serge said. He just doesn't like talking without a good reason.
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Yeah, this is a bit late but
Magil uses a scythe? I thought he only used magic and karate.
Ninja Magus! Yes!
He just doesn't really come out of the blue because he's not a character you need to have, and because there's so many other characters. Because of the amount of characters hardly any character that doesn't join through the story has a lot of unique actions. Even so, out of all of them Guile is definitely one of my favorites. I particularly like the bet with the fortune teller where you can get three outcomes.
Magil is just too anti-social for me, he may be subtle, but it's like he's desperately trying to avoid saying anything. He had his cool moments though, where Guile didn't have as many because he wasn't one of the main characters. And looking at it like that, this isn't really a fair poll at all. It's like saying, who do ya like better, Chrono or NeoFio?
If the game having so many characters makes this poll unfair, what does it say about the game? I'm not dissing you or Cross, but your argument could be better.
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What does that say about the game? Lots of variation, I'd think. Besides, all the story-intertwined characters have loads of unique scenes, and cool dialogue. All the others are just there to entertain yourself with, and have some variation. It really makes the game alive.
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Magil... Why would I think a stranger is better than my own brother?
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Gotta say Magil.
Sorry, but I don't vote for fruit...
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What does that say about the game? Lots of variation, I'd think. Besides, all the story-intertwined characters have loads of unique scenes, and cool dialogue.
I would only say that two of them had loads: Kid and (to a lesser extent) Harle. Everyone else had some and a ton of unoriginal generic dialogue that some of them said with different accents. If you put lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig. The characters aren't CC's main draw.
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Besides, who'd want to like a character named after a scripting language?
http://www.gnu.org/software/guile/
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What does that say about the game? Lots of variation, I'd think. Besides, all the story-intertwined characters have loads of unique scenes, and cool dialogue.
I would only say that two of them had loads: Kid and (to a lesser extent) Harle. Everyone else had some and a ton of unoriginal generic dialogue that some of them said with different accents. If you put lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig. The characters aren't CC's main draw.
Actually, there's quite a few original dialogues you can get by making different choices in the game, not counting the translated accents. And if you also count characters' dialogues before they join you, the number only goes higher. Karsh, Viper, Zoah, Marcy, and all other characters that join you automatically.
Besides, who'd want to like a character named after a scripting language?
http://www.gnu.org/software/guile/
Better then a construction company. http://www.magil.com/
Or a clothing brand. http://www.boysitaliansuits.com/magil.htm
Or a cave. http://www.armeniapedia.org/index.php?title=Magil_Cave
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Magus is cool, Guile is a wiener.
Guile doesn't even look tough. His outfit looks like something David Hasselhoff would wear during a performance - I kid you not. And his mask was sort of lame.
Oh, and he uses an effing wand. What's cooler: a scythe or a wand? Hmm...
The only thing Guile had going for him was the fact that he was a Shadow-innate and that he hovered when he ran. Other than that... Guile can suck Magus' big toe.
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Magus is cool, Guile is a wiener.
Guile doesn't even look tough. His outfit looks like something David Hasselhoff would wear during a performance - I kid you not. And his mask was sort of lame.
Oh, and he uses an effing wand. What's cooler: a scythe or a wand? Hmm...
The only thing Guile had going for him was the fact that he was a Shadow-innate and that he hovered when he ran. Other than that... Guile can suck Magus' big toe.
Ok I understand some people hate Guile but how you can you possibly comment on his mask, lol. It's practically the same as Magil's. And Magil doesn't have a scythe.
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Magus is cool, Guile is a wiener.
Guile doesn't even look tough. His outfit looks like something David Hasselhoff would wear during a performance - I kid you not. And his mask was sort of lame.
Oh, and he uses an effing wand. What's cooler: a scythe or a wand? Hmm...
The only thing Guile had going for him was the fact that he was a Shadow-innate and that he hovered when he ran. Other than that... Guile can suck Magus' big toe.
Mmh, this is about Guile vs. Magil, not Magus. Magil doesn't carry a scythe and fights with martial art punches and kicks instead (in addition to magic). Both Magil and Guile wear golden masks.
IMO, Magil would look totally ridiculous with a scythe. As Kid's partner, he's meant to be a thief. Walking around with a giant crescent-shaped scythe of doom isn't exactly practical for a thief sneaking into a manor.
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I think Guile's mask is one of his best features, though I'm still trying to figure out just what the Fortune Teller's reaction to when he takes it off means. Is she swooning because he's just that handsome, or is he so ugly that he gave her a heart attack?
Perhaps Magil could use small hand-scythes that would be easier to conceal. Still, kicking goblins in the face is more fun.
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I think Guile's mask is one of his best features, though I'm still trying to figure out just what the Fortune Teller's reaction to when he takes it off means. Is she swooning because he's just that handsome, or is he so ugly that he gave her a heart attack?
Perhaps Magil could use small hand-scythes that would be easier to conceal. Still, kicking goblins in the face is more fun.
I would think it's a play on Serge's reaction in RD when Magil's mask comes off.
I agree Magil shouldn't use scythes. And the character of Magil may be more developed then Guile's. Actually, that's probably so. However, I rather enjoyed the lighthearted Guile. Sure, it was a shame that characters like him didn't really get the chance to really shine because of all the other minor characters, but he's cool.
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Oh. Thought it was Magus vs. Guile. Thanks for pointing that out, everyone and their mom.
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Dude, Magil became soooo much cooler for me when I realized he's a martial artist in addition to a magic user. Uber.
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Oh. Thought it was Magus vs. Guile. Thanks for pointing that out, everyone and their mom.
Well you should be relieved considering Magil is 100x better then Magus
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Oh. Thought it was Magus vs. Guile. Thanks for pointing that out, everyone and their mom.
Technically it IS Magus vs. Guile. Magil/Gil is just Magus later (who knows how much later?). Guile/Alf is just some random mage character.
And Gil is a better name than Alf. Better to be money than a cat-eating alien from an old sit-com...hmmm...or is it?
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But wasn't Magil/Gil also named Gilbert in one of the RD scenarios? I think I'd prefer Alf over Gilbert.
Also:
Well you should be relieved considering Magil is 100x better then Magus
You got that backwards. Magil gets defeated by glowing rope. Magus beats up a giant monster and saves the world.
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But wasn't Magil/Gil also named Gilbert in one of the RD scenarios? I think I'd prefer Alf over Gilbert.
But then that Magil isn't the same Magil this poll is about.
And how is Gilbert an inferior name than Alf?
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Yeah, Gilbert is a completely different character with his own unique past...Most of the time Magil/Gil is Magus and he is in the main scenario, so I think we should go with that version unless told otherwise...?
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I don't know how many backstories they had written until they decided to replace CC Magus with Guile. The name Gil still exits in the debug text of the final version, with all those other characters' names. But it is possible that they remained the name unchanged until before release.
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Well, Magil/Gil is mentioned in CC while you're in Chronopolis...
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Of course I meant the playable one.
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Technically it IS Magus vs. Guile. Magil/Gil is just Magus later (who knows how much later?). Guile/Alf is just some random mage character.
Guile has likely been retconned to be Magus though, whereas Magil has been retconned out of the canon storyline.
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Well you should be relieved considering Magil is 100x better then Magus
You got that backwards. Magil gets defeated by glowing rope. Magus beats up a giant monster and saves the world.
Actually, I got that perfectly straight. The thing I do like about Magil is that every now and then, he's a positive thinker, not like Magus. I liked Magus in the beginning of Trigger, but the dude just doesn't grow at all during the game. All he can talk about is how he's just going to laugh if he dies, and all he does is standing on peaks with his cape waving in the wind wondering why he's not dead yet. Glenn(Frog) had that same attitude in the beginning of Trigger, but hell he got over it. Magus didn't. The guy's practically looking for death. This is only further implied by the fact that he won't learn any dual or triple techs, which makes him a bad combat player as well.
I loathe Magus, and I thought they finally fixed him up a bit when he appeared as Magil.
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Well you should be relieved considering Magil is 100x better then Magus
You got that backwards. Magil gets defeated by glowing rope. Magus beats up a giant monster and saves the world.
Actually, I got that perfectly straight. The thing I do like about Magil is that every now and then, he's a positive thinker, not like Magus. I liked Magus in the beginning of Trigger, but the dude just doesn't grow at all during the game. All he can talk about is how he's just going to laugh if he dies, and all he does is standing on peaks with his cape waving in the wind wondering why he's not dead yet. Glenn(Frog) had that same attitude in the beginning of Trigger, but hell he got over it. Magus didn't. The guy's practically looking for death. This is only further implied by the fact that he won't learn any dual or triple techs, which makes him a bad combat player as well.
I loathe Magus, and I thought they finally fixed him up a bit when he appeared as Magil.
Y'know, I've always thought he had no double or triple techs (I know about the rocks I'm saying normal techs though) because the developers thought him too powerful, I never thought about it being because he didn't want to have any. That's an interesting point.
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Compared to all the other characters who can do triple techs, he's not really an asset in battle. I don't see why anyone would have him in the party, unless they're a Magus fan. Him not having double and triple techs is just a typical indication of his bullshit loner streak.
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Well I don't know about bullshit, but it is well-known that he's not a necessary playable character.
So they probably spent less time developing his stats and interactions with other playable characters as well. But I really don't think it would be for any one reason, probably a combination of things that happen to work together.
SE's list of reasons Magus don't gotz no double or triple techs:
1. He's a loner, Dottie. A rebel.
2. He's already got some strong techs
3. We had some problems with space on the cartridge
4. We couldn't think of any impactful ones
5. We really didn't feel like doing it anyway.
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Well, there's only two real plausible options:
A- Square couldn't be assed, in which case they're being lazy, a mistake they have made too much
B- They did it because they really wanted us to feel how emo lonely Magus is.
I swear, the guy doesn't have a single positive emotion in the entire game. I'll commend you if you name me one. Even his love for Schala was a twisted, unhealthy thing. It wasn't incest, but it wasn't healthy family love either.
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Compared to all the other characters who can do triple techs, he's not really an asset in battle. I don't see why anyone would have him in the party, unless they're a Magus fan. Him not having double and triple techs is just a typical indication of his bullshit loner streak.
Whether he's useful in your party or not depends on your playing style. I hardly ever use double or triple techs, because I always seem to get more damage from two top-level single techs (that might be just an artefact of character levels and equipment, I suppose, but...) and Magus' single techs are pretty damned good, so I find that he's an asset to my party.
Loner? Well, yeah, he is. Those of us who are also loners can empathise with that, y'know. :)
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Magus made some jokes if you took him with you for the Rainbow Shell sidequest. They weren't exactly positive, but they were remarkably light-hearted for the character thus far.
As for his relationship with Schala, it's very much open to interpretation. Going from context clues from his life as Janus, he was a complete shut-in because of his own death-vision powers and later hatred of magic. The people in Zeal noted that his pacing around was a new thing, since he rarely went out and only ever talked with his sis and cat. Something hit me when he went to the Earthbound village with Schala and remarked how filthy it was, everyone seems to take that as him being a rude little churl and insulting the morlocks, but he hadn't ever been there before and only heard about it from how Schala loved to play down there. Little duder was surprised it was so crappy.
It just makes you wonder why he was so upset at the black wind blowing around all of Zeal before Lavos attacked if he was such a bastard who only loved his sister and cat. Then there's his "Lavos is using all people for food" line, makes me think he actually does care about people and life, he's just so warped and removed from it he can't really express it the right way.
His relationship with Schala is less twisted if you think of him as sharing some of her ideals, I guess. It can be played with, though.
I like Magil partly because he shows Magus had hope in him after all that time. Guile is Magus who gave up and who couldn't deal with his past life. He's distressed at the dark truth he learned with the Time Devourer, and I'm of the belief that the fortune teller recognized him as the long-dead Fiendlord.
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Technically it IS Magus vs. Guile. Magil/Gil is just Magus later (who knows how much later?). Guile/Alf is just some random mage character.
Guile has likely been retconned to be Magus though, whereas Magil has been retconned out of the canon storyline.
I go by what's official though, not supposedly maybe could be how it is. To me, Guile has yet to be proven to be Magus, while it HAS been proven that he is not. I don't think anyone can be retconned out of the 'canon' story of the Chrono series since each new story starts in a new timeline or dimension...That's just how the series works.
In the beginning, 1st playthrough, Magus is going to have a higher starting Magic stat than the rest of your crew so that Dark Matter is going to be more powerful than Luminaire, Flare or Shock. He also has access to all 4 Magics. He also has a decent attack & critical (both of which are made better in CTDS). Double & Triple Techs are overrated, but Magus has the best all-targeting Magic Triple Tech with Omega Flare, anyways...I think by not having learned Double & Triple Techs, Magus is basically telling everyone how pointless they are. Why waste waiting for two turns to come together for what you can do better with two turns separately?
I think Magus does change a bit by basically asking Crono & Co. (though at the time it was just the Co.) to let him join them. It's one of his greatest moments of weakness in the game besides when the party enters the distortion created by the Time Egg and he sees himself & Schala...He isn't above working with others, but he prefers to be in control...Which makes sense because his ultimate goal is revenge against the one who took that away from him almost completely...
For more in-depth (and slightly less off-topicness), there's always 23 pages & over 300 posts of people saying Why Magus Is So Cool (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,5303.0.html)...;)
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Well the first thing depends all on how much you leveled your characters. Being a grinder, when I first got to Magus he was far below my other characters.
As for the triple techs; sometimes double or triple techs can be way more useful then Luminaire or Ice 2 or Flare. Facing a boss who's immune to magic for example, Falcon Strike can really help out. Magus' Dark Matter is alright, but the rest of his attacks are pretty weak and the other half are just straight copies from other characters.
As for him asking to join, it's just because he's that, an opportunist. That's what he really is, someone who exploits opportunities over the backs of others. He didn't join because he finally decided to change his ways and become friends with the others, but just because he thought "hey wut I can use these ppl to get my REVENGE dun dun dun".
Why Magus is so awesome? That's because japanese wank on dark emo characters like this. Other people who find him awesome only look at the awesum cape and dark matter and omg black wind howls is so cool. While actually all three of these aspects indicate his emoness only more clearly.
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Facing a boss who's immune to magic for example...
Um, how many of those are there again...? There are plenty of monsters (& even a few bosses) that are immune or (like the Reptites) require a specific Magic (another reason why Magus' access to all 4 Magics is helpful) and even a handful of monsters that are immune to physical attacks, but I don't know about completely immune to Magic...
That's what he (Magus) really is, someone who exploits opportunities over the backs of others.
Is it really "on the backs of others" if 1) he's telling them how to bring back their friend? and 2) they share the same goal?
He didn't join because he finally decided to change his ways and become friends with the others, but just because he thought "hey wut I can use these ppl to get my REVENGE dun dun dun".
Prove it? (that one's for you SDD! lol)...but seriously, I wasn't saying that he completely changed who he was and started to fart rainbows and spout out Glenn's pacifist views (which Glenn eventually gave up on like he seemed to give up on everything...see how you can make a positive aspect sound negative? amazing)...He was willing to help them and let his fate intertwine with their own but it was ultimately it was for the greater good, regardless of whether or not he was motivated by revenge...a great injustice was thrust upon him and his loved ones, so you could even say that he has the most right to his actions.
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Why Magus is so awesome? That's because japanese wank on dark emo characters like this.
Oh yeah, I've heard of that before. Another example would be...Dark Serge?
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Alright take the Scouters for example. Magus is completely useless there because he only has all enemies magic attacks. He just stinks in combat, melee as well, compared to the other characters. And that can't be justified by "but Dark Matter does alot of dmg and is cool and he has all elements". Compared to the variety of attacks of all the other characters, Magus's is just laughable. He was underdeveloped.
Who says he really did it so they could bring back their friend? Schala was there too, and maybe he planned to use the Time Egg for his own goals first. But in the end it didn't work out.
"For the greater good" doesn't help the character of Magus. If we're gonna look at how developed a character is, "they have the same goal" and "for the greater good" doesn't work. It's his reasons behind it that matter.
@ Above: Dark Serge is dark, but not at all emo. Actually, he's pretty cheerful, and I laughed my ass off at the CC Does Cheers ending. He's dark, but he's a cool dark character, not like Magus.
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Dark Serge, you've admitted that your other characters are always at a much higher level than Magus starts at by the time you have a chance to recruit him, so I doubt you've ever given him a fair trial as a melee fighter. If the levels are equivalent, he's about on a level with Frog for physical attacks, and miles ahead of Lucca and Marle in all categories. And by the time he hits Level **, all of his stats except Evade (where he loses to Ayla) are as good as or better than everyone else's. His worst problems are that the Doom Sickle is much weaker than Crono's Rainbow or the second-level Masamune, and he takes longer to max out Stamina than the other heavy fighters (however, he maxes out MagDef much faster, which can be useful).
Yes, his magic attacks hit all enemies. So do almost all the other single techs worth having (the only exception I can think of offhand is Ayla's Triple Kick, although there may be one or two more that I'm forgetting), which makes that...pretty insignificant, to my mind.
And...cheerful evil characters disturb me. If you're capable of being happy and nasty, then you're beyond redemption. Magus isn't that. And he's a strong, independent, confident, intelligent person: all attractive traits.
Pardon me for saying so, but your objections against Magus seem to boil down to, "I don't like that kind of character, and the point in the story at which he becomes recruitable doesn't suit my playing style, so therefore, he sucks, and I'm tired of hearing other people say that he's all that, so I'm going to take him (and them) down a peg." I'm okay with you not liking Magus, but I don't think the conclusions you draw are justified.
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Dark Serge, you've admitted that your other characters are always at a much higher level than Magus starts at by the time you have a chance to recruit him, so I doubt you've ever given him a fair trial as a melee fighter. If the levels are equivalent, he's about on a level with Frog for physical attacks, and miles ahead of Lucca and Marle in all categories. And by the time he hits Level **, all of his stats except Evade (where he loses to Ayla) are as good as or better than everyone else's. His worst problems are that the Doom Sickle is much weaker than Crono's Rainbow or the second-level Masamune, and he takes longer to max out Stamina than the other heavy fighters (however, he maxes out MagDef much faster, which can be useful).
Yes, his magic attacks hit all enemies. So do almost all the other single techs worth having (the only exception I can think of offhand is Ayla's Triple Kick, although there may be one or two more that I'm forgetting), which makes that...pretty insignificant, to my mind.
And...cheerful evil characters disturb me. If you're capable of being happy and nasty, then you're beyond redemption. Magus isn't that. And he's a strong, independent, confident, intelligent person: all attractive traits.
Pardon me for saying so, but your objections against Magus seem to boil down to, "I don't like that kind of character, and the point in the story at which he becomes recruitable doesn't suit my playing style, so therefore, he sucks, and I'm tired of hearing other people say that he's all that, so I'm going to take him (and them) down a peg." I'm okay with you not liking Magus, but I don't think the conclusions you draw are justified.
Melee he beats Marle and Lucca, sure, but he's nothing compared to Glenn with Masamune II. Him not having any strong weapons as strong as the others is also lazy writing on Square's part, and it can't be used to justify Magus' uselessness in battle.
Dark Serge is cheerful because he is evil. Magus is not evil. Big difference there, mate.
My objection against Magus is that he doesn't develop at all. He starts out as an emo who despises all life, and he ends up as one. All the other characters at least have a little thing they develop on, but this guy just doesn't. He's a very complex character, and they could have done so much with him, but they just missed their chance completely.
Anyway, let's just agree to disagree, since this ain't going anywhere. The character doesn't grow, and he doesn't have a lot of combat abilities, both of which are the result of lazy writing. And lazy writing is something I do not stand for.
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Alright take the Scouters for example. Magus is completely useless there because he only has all enemies magic attacks.
The Scouters are pretty weak normal monsters though...The only times they're really any trouble at all is when you have to fight all 3 types at the same time (which only happens like 2 or 3 times in-game)...and even then, if you kill all of one type, which you can do with Magus' level 2 Magics (which are more powerful than the other characters' versions), they don't pose much of a threat (especially taking in Magus' high M. Def as alfadorredux noted and/or his Barrier Tech)...or you could always take them out with physicals just as easy...
He just stinks in combat, melee as well, compared to the other characters.
His worst problems are that the Doom Sickle is much weaker than Crono's Rainbow or the second-level Masamune
Melee he beats Marle and Lucca, sure, but he's nothing compared to Glenn with Masamune II. Him not having any strong weapons as strong as the others is also lazy writing on Square's part, and it can't be used to justify Magus' uselessness in battle.
Hello Dreamreaper...! Even the Judgement Scythe is a nice bonus, really. I think Magus also has a higher critical hit rate than Frog (it's practically a necessity to equip the Hero's Badge, but the Champion's Badge greatly increases Frog's own usefulness)...Shadowplume Cape has the best Def of all of the Armors outside of the Elemental Aegis (Lucca only) and the Prism Dresses (girls only) and includes Auto-Barrier...
Who says he really did it so they could bring back their friend?
Well, he sorta does when he asks to join you...
I said the fool was dead.
I did not say his death could not be undone.
Gaspar, the Guru of Time, knows the way to restore those streams of time that have been diverted from their proper courses.
(the CTDS version was the most on-hand...I should look for the retranslated version, really)
Schala was there too, and maybe he planned to use the Time Egg for his own goals first. But in the end it didn't work out.
That's a fairly big maybe based on...? It certainly helps your argument though. Neat.
"For the greater good" doesn't help the character of Magus. If we're gonna look at how developed a character is, "they have the same goal" and "for the greater good" doesn't work. It's his reasons behind it that matter.
Well then wouldn't Frog be just as big a douche as you seem to think Magus is since his whole quest boils down to the same thing: revenge? While intentions ARE important, actions, the consequences of ones actions and what you do with those in the end are just as (if not moreso) important.
As for Dark Serge as a character (which I don't think should have been started to be discussed in the first place, it seemed like an unnecessary & poor non-argument that was just trying to jab the other poster's SN and was also off-topic)...I don't see him as any different than Lynx...who isn't any different than FATE (& sorta Wazuki)...mostly insane (Kefka did it better lol), but with some of the game's better quotes.
Ugh...so many quotes...things moving in circles...I think Ramsus just talked about this somewhere because I remember blushing thinking of how many times I was the cause or instigator of such...
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Magus' character doesn't develop because character development isn't an end in itself; character dynamism is the end, and it can be acheived by more than one method. In Magus' case, the game's developers used character revelation to acheive dynamism: Magus himself doesn't change, but the player's perception of him does. From a storytelling point of view, it's an unusual but legitimate choice.
And, judging from my current level of verbosity, I should go burn my pedant hat again.
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My objection against Magus is that he doesn't develop at all. He starts out as an emo who despises all life, and he ends up as one. All the other characters at least have a little thing they develop on, but this guy just doesn't. He's a very complex character, and they could have done so much with him, but they just missed their chance completely.
Well... I always thought of Magus as the dude with the most marked development in CT. We see the little brat turn into the warlord of the Mystics (through bits and pieces of his history, but still), and then turn into one of the seven heroes who stop Lavos. I percieved that as character development from the first time I played through the game (I might be wrong).
And I always thought of him as a well balanced, strong fighter (both physically and magically). Although it is a shame that he doesn't learn double techs, his triple tech with Marle and Lucca is one of my favorites, and his magic barrier was also a great contribution in boss fights (even against Lavos).
Still, you're entitled to your opinion.... Of course I hate you for it, you've called him "emo" so many times in the forums that now I can't get the image of him covering half his face with his blue hair, cut marks underneath the gloves and an awful kinda-like-MCR background theme... damn you! :P
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My objection against Magus is that he doesn't develop at all. He starts out as an emo who despises all life, and he ends up as one. All the other characters at least have a little thing they develop on, but this guy just doesn't. He's a very complex character, and they could have done so much with him, but they just missed their chance completely.
Well... I always thought of Magus as the dude with the most marked development in CT. We see the little brat turn into the warlord of the Mystics (through bits and pieces of his history, but still), and then turn into one of the seven heroes who stop Lavos. I percieved that as character development from the first time I played through the game (I might be wrong).
And I always thought of him as a well balanced, strong fighter (both physically and magically). Although it is a shame that he doesn't learn double techs, his triple tech with Marle and Lucca is one of my favorites, and his magic barrier was also a great contribution in boss fights (even against Lavos).
Still, you're entitled to your opinion.... Of course I hate you for it, you've called him "emo" so many times in the forums that now I can't get the image of him covering half his face with his blue hair, cut marks underneath the gloves and an awful kinda-like-MCR background theme... damn you! :P
Actually that's not correct, since we don't see that development in the game. We just learn (way later) that Magus is in fact that boy, Janus. And since the development stops here, he still doesn't have any development in the game. My perception of him didn't change, and it will not change. It changed when he became Magil, but he's so different from Magus, that I'm on the verge of saying they're different people altogether.
Anyway, it's pointless to continue. I explained why I don't like Magus and that's really all I wanted to achieve. You have got some valid arguments about his combat usefulness, especially since the CT:DS retcon, but alright. I won't convince you and you won't convince me.
Back to the topic now then, shall we? Magil or Guile, who's better.
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As for Dark Serge as a character (which I don't think should have been started to be discussed in the first place, it seemed like an unnecessary & poor non-argument that was just trying to jab the other poster's SN and was also off-topic)...I don't see him as any different than Lynx...who isn't any different than FATE (& sorta Wazuki)...mostly insane (Kefka did it better lol), but with some of the game's better quotes.
I'm just saying, if you're gonna say anything specific is bad, check to see that you can't prove your point wrong with something that fits the criteria but you find to be "good".
For instance, I think Guile looks stupid. I don't have a problem with his lack of character development. Norstein Bekkler, on the other hand, also has no character development, but I think he looks cool. If I had a problem with lack of development, that would mean Bekkler would be pretty lame, as well as almost every NPC and enemy in both (all three) games.
And "emo" is an adjective. Not a verb, and only a noun when you're talking about it as a genre. A person can not be "an emo". Magus isn't emo. He's a fucking wizard who leads a war with monsters against all humans, and tries to save his sister from a giant alien. If anything, he's fucking metal.
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Magus isn't emo. He's a fucking wizard who leads a war with monsters against all humans, and tries to save his sister from a giant alien. If anything, he's fucking metal.
Thanks for that, the "emo" mental picture got swept away :mrgreen:
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As for Dark Serge as a character (which I don't think should have been started to be discussed in the first place, it seemed like an unnecessary & poor non-argument that was just trying to jab the other poster's SN and was also off-topic)...I don't see him as any different than Lynx...who isn't any different than FATE (& sorta Wazuki)...mostly insane (Kefka did it better lol), but with some of the game's better quotes.
I'm just saying, if you're gonna say anything specific is bad, check to see that you can't prove your point wrong with something that fits the criteria but you find to be "good".
For instance, I think Guile looks stupid. I don't have a problem with his lack of character development. Norstein Bekkler, on the other hand, also has no character development, but I think he looks cool. If I had a problem with lack of development, that would mean Bekkler would be pretty lame, as well as almost every NPC and enemy in both (all three) games.
And "emo" is an adjective. Not a verb, and only a noun when you're talking about it as a genre. A person can not be "an emo". Magus isn't emo. He's a fucking wizard who leads a war with monsters against all humans, and tries to save his sister from a giant alien. If anything, he's fucking metal.
Uhh yeah, with emo I mean person who hates life and constantly talks about how shitty everything is and how he'll laugh if death finally comes for him.
So who's better, Magil or Guile?
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Magil is better, he's ninja magus. Guile just looks stupid. 8) Eh?
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Magil.
Shadow lurkers always have the upperhand on fruity wand wielders.
Not that I don't think Guile was a good character or anything, I just think that if you threw them in the ring togheter Magil would kick his ass (in a "Celebrity Deathmatch" sort of battle :D)
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Guile could be awesome, if he had back stories. *shrug