Chrono Compendium
Kajar Laboratories - Fan Works and Submissions => Fan Fiction => Topic started by: teh Schala on July 12, 2005, 02:14:31 pm
-
I asked Zeality if I could be part of Project Zeal, so he added me to that group... So in sort of an effort to "prove myself," I threw together an opening of how I would envision a Chrono Trigger book to begin. (Note also that I put this together in about an hour, at work, in the middle of other stuff. :roll: ) Just a rough draft, I would definitely polish it some more before I call it the "final version." :) Hope you like it. My commentary follows...
Spreading his arms wide, Crono soared through the blue skies like the heroes of great faerie tales of old. He flipped and zigzagged from cloud to cloud as though he was surfing the waves of a great sea. As he looked ahead to further plan his flight path, a glint in the distance caught his eye.
Making his way toward it, he felt a sensation like nothing he could imagine. So this is what adventure feels like, he thought. His heart leapt in excitement as he darted through the clouds and the source of that shining light came into view.
A city stood upon a small island landmass, hovering in serenity above the earth, forgotten far below. At the highest point of the island stood a palace sculpted entirely of some beautiful stone Crono couldn’t identify. He guessed this to be what had caused the sun to reflect into his eye. The palace’s delicate spires jutted gently into the air, a pale blue color that stood vividly even against the bright blue sky of the day. As Crono circled the land, his eyes ever on the palace, he became more entranced by it. At different angles, the sun’s rays made the deep blue turn a bold red.
Drawn by his curiosity, Crono descended to the island. On his approach, he noticed other magnificent structures upon the island, but none as beautiful as the palace at the land’s peak. Crono’s feet touched the ground as he stared in awe at this enormous piece of fantastical architecture.
Almost instantly when his feet touched the ground, the landscape changed. Gone was the island he stood on, now replaced by a swirling blue beneath his feet. The colors churning under him, Crono avoided looking down. Looking up, he felt his heart leap into his throat. Terror gripped him. His legs trembled. Here stood another palace, greater than the first, but this monstrous structure was horrifying instead of soothing.
Like a giant bowl turned upside down, it sported ghastly green spikes of some emerald-like substance. Crono fell into a daze. Were those spikes moving? They seemed to shift in place along with the spinning blue under his feet.
Crono fell backward as a fell blast of wind struck him, coming from the direction of the evil stronghold. As Crono got up and looked toward it again, the terror overwhelmed him as he came to a dispiriting realization.
Wait a minute, he thought. That’s a mouth in front of this building! It’s not a building... It’s a beast.
As if responding to Crono’s thought, the monstrosity opened its mouth wide and roared. Crono fell to his knees, slamming his ears shut with both hands. But nothing could keep that horrible noise out. He felt his stomach lurch as he was forced to listen. It was like the sound of a thousand castles collapsing upon each other, shaking everything nearby. The sound ripped through Crono, pulsating viciously from the mouth. Crono screamed in pain, feeling his eardrums burst. He collapsed to the ground.
“Crono...” came a weak voice nearby as the creature’s howl died down. As he lay on the ground, he opened his eyes to see the forms of several other people nearby, all prostrate on the ground as he was. The voice had come from a young woman lying on her chest, her blond hair scattered about her as she struggled to sit up. With one hand she reached toward Crono, screaming his name again. As she did so, blood ran from her mouth. Cuts dotted her forehead and the blood had sopped into some of her hair. Her arm was a mess of red, her clothes were tattered, and Crono knew the look in her eyes. He had seen it in many helpless animals before.
She was dying.
“Cro...” Her voice cracked as she said it, and she coughed up more blood.
He closed his eyes, forcing himself to push himself up with his arms, and put his feet beneath him. Standing again before the dark castle of a beast, he glared into its open mouth, where he saw an eye watching him.
Crono looked back at the young woman, and then returned his gaze to the monster. Without knowing what he was doing, he felt his left hand extend toward the creature and his mouth formed words without his permission. “Take me,” he said.
The creature blinked. Crono felt that it had understood his offer, although he himself did not. Moments later, a beam of light shot out from the eye and struck him in the chest. As he fell backward, he heard one last scream from the mysterious woman. “Crono!”
* * *
“Crono!” A hand gently shook his shoulder.
“Wh-wha-?” Crono blinked his eyes, rubbing his forehead as he turned over in bed.
“Crono, I’ve been yelling at you from downstairs for the last five minutes!” his mom exclaimed, putting her hands on her hips. “Really, I don’t know why you always stay out so late!”
Sitting up in bed, Crono rubbed his eyes and ran his hand through his hair. The thoughts of his dream immediately rushed back into his head. His mother stood next to his bed, still watching him.
“What’s wrong?” she asked, her tone softening. Her hands still on her hips, she leaned down to scrutinize him at eye level. “You look even more tired than usual. Are you okay?”
“Ugh... I think so,” he moaned, still groggy. “I just...”
His mother interrupted as he was about to tell her about the dream. “You were just so excited about the fair that you didn’t sleep well, did you?”
“Hmm? Oh, the fair!” Crono tore out of bed, unwittingly taking the covers halfway across the room with him, and made for the closet. His heart raced in excitement as he picked out a blue tunic made of tough animal hide, and tied his favorite bandanna around his forehead.
“Mom, have you seen my sword?” he called out.
His mother’s voice came from downstairs. “Why do you need that old thing? You’re not planning any trouble, are you?”
“Lucca has some new battle machine on exhibit! Remember? I’ve told you about Gato.”
“Oh, yes! Well, your sword... Hmm...”
Crono made his way down the stairs, strapping a leather belt around his tunic. His mother stood at the stove, tapping one finger against her chin, her eyes staring blankly at the oak tree outside the window. The smell of eggs and bacon invaded Crono’s nostrils as he waited impatiently for her answer.
“I think I threw it in the...”
Crono didn’t need the rest of the answer. He was already out the door and opening the garbage can next to the front door. He immediately spied his wooden katana sticking out of the garbage, and lifted it gingerly out of the can.
His mother leaned out the door as Crono tapped the sword against the soft green grass a few times, shaking off the scraps of fruit peels. “Crono, don’t fight that thing yet, okay? Just go and say hi to Lucca, and then come back soon, and bring her too! I’m making breakfast for you both. Then once you’ve had a healthy breakfast, you can beat that thing up as much as she’ll let you!”
Crono responded with a thumbs-up as he sprinted off toward the Millennial Fair, attaching his sword to his belt as he went.
OK, so obviously the beginning is a dream... Crono starts by having a dream like we all do...we all dream we can fly. This kind of helps to convey his personality (since the game gives him no persona), which I would polish up some more by adding to the sense of joy he's feeling while flying. The island is Zeal, and he lands before Zeal Palace. The palace transforms into Lavos, the island turns into the blue vortex or pocket dimension around Lavos...
The idea behind his confusion about saying "Take me" is that he doesn't know why he's offering himself to Lavos as a sacrifice. I've had dreams like this before myself where I don't know WHY I feel a certain way about something, but I just do. He knows subconsciously that he loves this girl (who is obviously Marle), and you get the idea now.
Anyway, hope y'all liked it... Let me know your thoughts.
-
Okay...I skimmed, I admit it...
The dream sequence kind of turned me off and the added text of the conversation w/Crono & Mother threw me off a bit as well...I mean, the dream sequence I could have eventually accepted since we don't know exactly what's going on in his head and heck, even Crono's responses are okay, but changing things that are said to him? It just feels like a weird step in fanfic where the fanfic author is just making slight, subtle changes to the original...basically a fanfic remake.
And do we need that exactly? I think not.
But your style seems fine. I'd prefer to read some more original fanfic (if there truly is such a thing) from you rather than more of this fanfic remake.
-
Interesting take, Translanka. I only wrote this because I wasn't aware yet what was going on plot-wise on Project ZEAL, so I just wrote something pretty basic.
The reason I "remade" it was because if I use their dialogue exactly, not only would the dialogue be slim, bare-bones and difficult to pass off believably, but I also couldn't say that "I" even wrote anything. But by writing their personas, not necessarily their exact actions, I used that to try and underscore their personalities a little. (And if this was a real book, remember that Crono's mom would only make 2 appearances, 3 if you count the ending with the cats. Which means her personality as a caring but overprotective mom has to come across clearly, quickly, and strongly for the reader to have anything but questions about her. This at least satisfies anything the casual reader would want to know about that character.)
And you were supposed to focus more on how you liked the writing itself, not what was being written. ;)
-
Well, Jake-A-Roonie, I cannot fault you for making a most spirited effort. Don't fool yourself into thinking you haven't got plenty of room left to grow as a writer, but if you keep on writing--that's the key--you may well find your voice and tell a darn good story.
I will only offer two practical suggestions, since practical suggestions have a way of inhibiting the creative intellect, and that spells death for a budding writer. Your biggest weakness so far is that you rely far too heavily on cliché, especially in your dialogue and plot contrivances. Perhaps as you reread what you've written already, rather than rewriting it you might ask yourself if you're writing anything people haven't read before...and take that into consideration in what you draft next.
Secondly, do not stray away from the spirit of the story. You are correct in that the RPG has surprisingly little text for all those hours of gameplay--although ZeaLitY and his team will still attest as to how long it took to turn that text into the refined CT script, tee hee--but the sparseness of the RPG text should make your primary motivation to embellish the themes that are already there in the background, and to stay true to the intentions of the plot, rather than introducing extraneous material that doesn't reflect CT's personality. Do not add outside material; give a voice to the unspoken material locked within the game. A master writer can take a plot in entirely new directions while staying true to the original, but we all have to start beneath the masters. Focus on the spirit of the story, and let your pen go from there.
And never, ever rewrite. Ever. Period.
-
Wait, what do you mean by never rewrite? Do you mean in terms of the CT script? Or in terms of an editing-type process? Because, while I obviously agree w/the first...the second would sound ludicrous...So, I'm guessing you're not talking about the second...
And, Jake-A-Roonie...Don't forget that Crono'd have to introduce the party to his mom! :P I loved those sequences in the game...:lol:
Also, here's an example of a kind of pseudo CT fanfic scene which is based around the scene you see when Schala gives Janus the Pendant (it's pseudo because it's actually based on the original timeline's Janus w/o Crono & Co. ever being there)...It's from my fanfic Magness...
The young Prince Janus paced about his room, distraught with the horrible images of the dreams he had been having ever since that day when the Wind began to haunt him. The dreaded Mammon Machine had it's time in that room now. It sapped the people of their consciousness and sent them into deep dream states. Technology began to reign once again and there was a false feeling of peace among the people. A sense that the peace was forced, that the people overlooked the travesties going on under thier noses, was perceived by a very select few.
More and more the Queen bound her people to the earth below, although more and more these dealings were untold to the public. The three Gurus were uneasy with the Queen's contact with the Mammon Machine, and thusly, to Lavos, the demon creature dwelling below. Princess Schala was to control and focus these meetings with her mother and Lavos. Queen Zeal became more powerful absorbing the energy the Mammon Machine gave off, but as her power increased, her psychosis became more unstable. She had recently had the Mammon Machine moved closer to Lavos, into the sea, to draw energy with more fluid ease. Construction of the Ocean Palace, the Mammon Machine's residency in the sea, proved more deadly than the Dreamstone mining accident that took eight lives including the King's. No one made the conneciton; those deaths were also concealed from the people. Only the royalty and the Gurus knew anything that really happened under those waters and only t hey feared what was going to happen when the Mammon Machine was activated there, so close to Lavos; it was as if their power would kiss.
Alfador sat watching Janus walk circles near his bed. The cat mewed once at its master. Janus stopped and looked down to the kitten, his only friend, and said, "I don't know what to do Alfador...I worry-"
He heard the door to his room open and someone advanced up the steps. At the sight of her hair, he let out a small sigh of relief. Janus was, in all probability, the only person who could tell the difference from the Queen and the Princess just from thier respective top inches.
"Schala...!!" He said, enthused, but the smile on his face seemed tired and weak.
"Janus, is something wrong?" She had come to check up on him. There was little time those days they got to spend together because of the Queen.
"The Black Wind..." Janus told her and his face turned downward.
"You feel it too?" Schala said and looked to that place his face turned to, as if she would be able to see into him by seeing what he saw, "Don't worry, it'll be alright." It was a lie; she felt the death coming just as easily as he. She bent down and pet Alfador. The cat purred and Schala looked back to Janus. The smile drained from her face and her look became serious again, "Now, hold onto this."
She took something silvery and curved from the insides of her robe and held it out for him to take; it seemed to have three little bells on it.
"What is it?" Janus asked as he took the thing and examined it closer. Alfador began to rub against his leg and meow, wanting to see and smell the shiny object for himself.
"It's a kind of amulet. If something should happen, it will protect you." She told him and, with her own weak smile, added, "I wish I could be with you always...But mother has other plans."
"She's NOT our mother!" His voice rose to near a shout, and shamed with himself, he added at near-whisper, "She looks like mother, but inside she has changed."
There was a long pause as Schala debated this once again, this time, her own brother had told her that which she knew, deep down, but did not accept completely. He seemed to get through to her best, most of the time, "Still, I can't...Janus...I'm sorr-"
"Highness...!" A young woman, dressed in flamboyant, flowing servant's garb, interrupted from the steps, "The Queen asks for your immediate presence at the Ocean Palace."
"Alright..." Schala told the woman and turned to her brother, "Well, Janus...I'll be going."
Uh...don't ask about the first couple paragraphs though...I think that makes more sense in context...Or maybe you can just figure it out...w/e...Well, see? Plenty of writing and stuff going on even though no dialogue was actually changed...except I had Schala be interrupted in the end when she's apologizing to Janus since Crono & Co. wouldn't be there to slow down that servant-woman...Isn't it fucked up that she doesn't get to say "I'm sorry" in this version? I like to think so :wink:
-
if you keep on writing--that's the key
That's true, it's always important to just keep writing... And so you know, I have been writing since I was 11 years old (that would be half of my life, seeing that I'm almost 22) and am actually working on a pretty serious book now, which I have a publisher and editor for.
Your biggest weakness so far is that you rely far too heavily on cliché, especially in your dialogue and plot contrivances.
Can I help that the original writers of Chrono Trigger used such cliches to which I am limited when writing my own interpretation of their story?
Secondly, do not stray away from the spirit of the story.
stay true to the intentions of the plot, rather than introducing extraneous material that doesn't reflect CT's personality.
A master writer can take a plot in entirely new directions while staying true to the original
Forgive me if I find your past 3 quotes to be a bit contradictory to each other... That is, I added a deeper layer to Crono's personality, which also served as the all-important opening hook to a story, peaking the reader's curiosity, but I also stayed true to the storyline in that we simply don't know whether he had such a dream or not. Being the RPG's silent hero, he wouldn't have spoken about such a thing, and it's that much more difficult to write a personality for a character who never had one, while trying not to "add extraneous material." Try it yourself. ;)
-
WHOA!!! Simultaneous posting! SECONDS APART! We should be given some kind of award, I believe, Jake-A-Roonie...
-
Well Trans, your scene was easier to write because of the fact that you didn't have to deal with Crono. I skimmed your writing briefly, but I think I caught a POV error or two in there... But that's not important right now. Anyway, SIMPLY because Crono had no in-game dialogue, that makes him extremely difficult to write, particularly in the beginning where it's JUST Crono. There's simply no way to write that without changing it. I admit to changing and elaborating his mother's statements a bit, but again, that was to embellish the message that was already there...that he's sleeping late and she's a frustrated, over-protective mother.
By the way, the only reason I even threw this together was because I thought Project ZEAL was still active, and this was to be my ticket in. Well I got in...it's just that there's nothing in there to work on. >_< So this thread's kind of useless anyway.
-
Well, in regards to the idea of re-writing, I think he DID in fact mean to never re-write something you have already written, sort of the 'move on' mindset. After having written some 600 pages in the last two and a half years, I have to disagree. There were many parts I rewrote, and have made sound better for it. I understand the fear that it might stagnate you into certain things that you have already written - which does happen to me quite often - but the chance of taking something you think alright but not great and turning it into something into something marvellous is too good to allow to pass.
-
But the idea of never re-writing anything you've written is so absurd! I mean, w/o editing, you're just inviting yourself to have millions of things wrong! I could understand don't re-write anything until you're done, that's fairly good advice (that I don't really follow...well, I normally wait until I'm done w/the chapt...but...otherwise...). That way you don't stop your creative flow as you write and don't worry about things you've written before...But even going back can always inspire new things...
Also...
Well Trans, your scene was easier to write because of the fact that you didn't have to deal with Crono. I skimmed your writing briefly, but I think I caught a POV error or two in there...
Yeah, I guess that's true. I wasn't thinking of that. But, please, do tell w/e errors you see, I'm always one for some constructive criticism. Heck, from when I just posted that to now, I already fixed like several spelling errors! And that's only one part of one chapter! Albeit it is the longest chapter...but w/e...
Also, I don't think anyone really had to "proove themselves"...Did they? Oh wait, I guess we had to give examples of our work...And it's just on hiatus...for some reason...
-
Well let's see... I'm going to just put in comments that I know my editor would make about my writing, so here we go...
-----
The young Prince Janus paced about his room, distraught with (perhaps you should say "by" instead of "with") the horrible images of the dreams he had been having ever since that day when the Wind began to haunt him. The dreaded Mammon Machine had its (no apostrophe) time in that room now. It sapped the people of their consciousness and sent them into deep dream states. Technology began to reign once again and there was a false feeling of peace among the people. A sense that the peace was forced, that the people overlooked the travesties going on under thier ("their") noses, was perceived by a very select few.
More and more the Queen bound her people to the earth below, although more and more these dealings were untold to the public. The three Gurus were uneasy with the Queen's contact with the Mammon Machine, and thusly, to (remove "ly" from thus, and possibly remove the comma) Lavos, the demon creature dwelling below. Princess Schala was to control and focus these meetings with her mother and Lavos. Queen Zeal became more powerful (add a comma there) absorbing the energy the Mammon Machine gave off, but as her power increased, her psychosis became more unstable. She had recently had the Mammon Machine moved closer to Lavos, into the sea, to draw energy with more fluid ease. Construction of the Ocean Palace, the Mammon Machine's residency in the sea, proved more deadly than the Dreamstone mining accident that took eight lives including the King's. No one made the conneciton; those deaths were also concealed from the people. Only the royalty and the Gurus knew anything that really happened under those waters and only t hey (you accidentally stuck a space there on "they") feared what was going to happen when the Mammon Machine was activated there, so close to Lavos; it was as if their power would kiss. (Here, you used several weak and passive words in a single sentence. Reword?)
Alfador sat watching Janus (this is out of Janus' point of view...he don't know what Alfador is watching...only that he is sitting here somewhere) walk circles near his bed. The cat mewed once at its master. Janus stopped and looked down to the kitten, his only friend, and said, "I don't know what to do (add a comma here) Alfador...I worry-"
He heard the door to his room open and someone advanced up the steps. At the sight of her hair, he let out a small sigh of relief. Janus was, in all probability, the only person who could tell the difference from (this should probably be "between" instead of "from") the Queen and the Princess just from thier respective top inches.
"Schala...!!" (remove the 2nd exclamation point and make "he" lower-case) He said, enthused, but the smile on his face seemed tired and weak. (He can't see his own face, so how does he know it seemed tired and weak? Does he physically feel tired and weak?)
"Janus, is something wrong?" She had come to check up on him (again, out of Janus' point of view. He doesn't necessarily know why Schala is here, though he may be able to take a good guess). There was little time those days they got to spend together because of the Queen.
"The Black Wind..." Janus told her (comma) and his face turned downward.
"You feel it too?" Schala said and looked to that place his face turned to, (How does he know where Schala is looking if his head is turned downward?) as if she would be able to see into him by seeing what he saw, (Period, not comma.) "Don't worry, it'll be alright." It was a lie; she felt the death coming just as easily as he. (Again, out of Janus' point of view.) She bent down and pet Alfador. The cat purred and Schala looked back to Janus. (Again, how does he know where Schala is looking if his head is turned downward?) The smile drained from her face and her look became serious (This is the show-don't-tell principle. What does Janus observe on Schala's face -- if he has looked back up by now -- that makes her face seem serious to him?) again, (Period, not comma) "Now, hold onto this."
She took something silvery and curved from the insides of her robe and held it out for him to take; it seemed to have three little bells on it.
"What is it?" Janus asked as he took the thing and examined it closer. Alfador began to rub against his leg and meow, wanting to see and smell the shiny object for himself. (Of course Janus can presume why Alfador is curious, but again, it's still out of Janus' point of view. Maybe a better way to say it would be to say that Alfador, curious as ever, stood on his hind legs, leaning against Janus, sniffing at the object in his hand.)
"It's a kind of amulet. If something should happen, it will protect you." She told him and, with her own weak smile (again, what does Janus perceive on Schala's face that makes her smile seem weak and forced?), added, "I wish I could be with you always...But mother has other plans."
"She's NOT our mother!" His voice rose to near a shout (you may want to say "a near shout" instead of "near a shout"), and shamed with himself, he added at near-whisper, "She looks like mother, but inside she has changed."
There was a long pause as Schala debated this once again, this time, her own brother had told her that which she knew, deep down, but did not accept completely. He seemed to get through to her best, most of the time, (The whole paragraph before this point is out of Janus' point of view...unless he can read her mind.) "Still, I can't...Janus...I'm sorr-"
"Highness...!" A young woman, dressed in flamboyant, flowing servant's garb, interrupted from the steps, (period, not comma) "The Queen asks for your immediate presence at the Ocean Palace."
"Alright..." Schala told the woman and turned to her brother, (period, not comma) "Well, Janus...I'll be going."
-----
Hope it doesn't sound like I just tore your script apart, and I didn't want to change the wording too much... So I tried to keep that to a minimum. You did good though. :)
-
Yeah, I knew there'd be plenty of grammatical errors...:oops:
But I still don't understand your PoV statements...Isn't it obvious that I'm using a 3rd person (omni) narrative? What's all this Janus PoV stuff?
-
Your English class may have taught you incorrectly about how Point Of View should work. I know mine did, and I had to re-learn this. I was originally taught that in 3rd person, you can view the scene from an omniscient perspective, knowing every character's thoughts and emotions. As it turns out, this isn't supposed to be the case.
Even though you're using a 3rd-person narrative, you want to focus on the mind of just one person. (PoV is something that most readers don't notice, but publishers are very keenly aware of.) That is, since you established Janus as the PoV character (by beginning with him and his actions), or the main character of the scene, you want the reader to stay in Janus' mind rather than "head-hopping" to Schala and even Alfador. This way by the end of the scene, the reader identifies strongly with your PoV character. The reader perceives what Janus perceives and nothing more, nothing less. If you need to switch, use a section break.
So if you begin in Janus' point of view and this scene takes place in his point of view...but say, for example, that you want to follow Schala down the hallway toward the Ocean Palace, you'd do a section break as soon as she leaves Janus' presence, then begin the next scene in Schala's mind. This way, by only focusing on one character's thoughts at a time, you run less chance of confusing your reader (whether they realize it or not). Sometimes -- though not always -- if you show the thoughts of more than one character in a scene, the reader will have to go back and check what they read to make sure they read correctly about who was thinking what.
If you want, I can email you a list of PoV tips my editor gave me.
Also, take a look at my original post on this thread. Notice how all thoughts and emotions were Crono's? Even if I had to communicate other thoughts or feelings (such as Marle's fear that she was about to die, or Crono's mom's frustration with him sleeping late), I stayed in his point of view by saying what he observed that brought him to the conclusion that Marle was dying, or that his mom was upset with him (his mom putting her hands on her hips, for example). This also meant that I couldn't follow his mom downstairs and explicitly SAY that she was putting eggs and bacon on the stove, but I could have Crono smell them from upstairs if I want.
See what I mean? This helps the reader stay "in the head" of the chosen character, giving the writer greater control over the reader's own thoughts and reactions to something.
That is, take the scene of the prehistoric party. I can draw a very positive, fun picture of it by telling it through Crono, Marle, or Ayla's eyes and make the reader like the other characters this way. OR, I could tell this scene through Kino's point of view and make the reader dislike Crono a bit. You want to keep that in mind as you go into a scene and decide whose point of view to use, although if you were to novelize Chrono Trigger, you'd want to stay in Crono's point of view most of the time, and definitely end chapters in his head as well, to maintain the overall focus on him as the absolute main character.
-
But...but that's absurd. I'm certain that I've read books that go about doing things in both ways (and various others). I mean, are you suggesting that I seriously write the scene twice just to get both characters feelings??? I stand by the 3rd Person (Omni) view. I don't see how it's confusing at all.
-
It's not absurd, it's just industry standard. No, I'm DEFINITELY not telling you to write it twice just to get both characters' feelings! Convey Schala's feelings by pointing out what Janus SEES or HEARS through his senses that TELL him her feelings. Would you like for me to go through your scene and show an example of how I mean to do this?
EDIT: By the way, I'm not surprised that you say you haven't noticed stuff like this before and could swear you've seen books that do it both ways (I said the same thing at first), but as I said earlier, this is something that's a very subtle but very important technique, and readers *RARELY* notice it.
-
No, don't rewrite it...But I mean, then, like you said, how do you convey something that way that a character just plain can't see? I don't think that just by opening the scene on Janus that automatically makes it his PoV.
But I dunno, I don't use an editor (don't have one anyways)...I just go by (as hard as I can) what Strunk & White tell me. And there aint nothin' bout that in there...
I mean seriously, have you read the whakky style found in, say, King & Straub's The Black House? You can't possibly say that follows this absurd rule.
-
I should think more fully omniscient is reserved primarially in a place where a certain feel is wished for, most especially in a battle of a larger scale. In such a thing, it is advisable (or at least I have found it good) to shift to such a view, as it is more attuned to the voice of legend. A skald singing a tale would quite naturally assume and make up what his heroes were thinking, and would speak of what multiple characters feel. This happens time and again in the Ilidad. This person was suddenly greatly afraid at the onslaught of such and such. And then shortly thereafter, it will say how another was joyful in overthrowing his enemy. This, however, is not exactly within the head of all characters, but rather gives a general overview of what they feel, I suppose, but is still third-person omniscient - sort of a mid-point. You see, you can say precisely what someone is thinking, or you can simply say what they feel as a narrator, but still be more knowledgeable than the person from whose point of view it is - this is a fine thing to accomplish, actually. But this is primarally, as I have said, a thing to use within a battle, which I hold to be a unique case when it stems from a legendary style.
But in most parts, a more limited omniscient view is advisable, you are correct.
Anyway, as far as re-writing goes, here is an example of why rewriting needs to be done (note there is a two year difference between these re-writings):
First, the older terrible version from a few years back. Pay special heed to how badly I describe Magus.
The figure slowly turned, his hair and cape still blowing out behind him. They saw now that he was big; six feet tall at least, and massively built. In addition, he wore thick armour on his chest of some unknown material, and was shod in heavy boots. These contributed to the effect. His large cape lay fastened around his neck and stretched far back behind him. Likewise his hair, which they now saw was pale purple, still flew back behind him. On his hands were thick gloves, and from him hung various amulets and chains. From his waist hung an evil looking sickle. But it was the face that frightened them. That visage startled all but the Frog, who had seen it before, and, indeed, still haunted his darkest nightmares.
It was ghostly pale, with sharp features and a pointed nose that caught the shadows in a menacing way. A look of torture and pain seemed permanently etched into the features. His purple hair was pulled tightly back and waved gently in the wind. Two long pointed ears made him seem not quite human. He looked at them with a pair of sharp eyes that seemed to glow red at the core. A strange mixture of contempt and amusement was on his face.
“It’s that stupid frog...” he mumbled, “...kissed any princesses lately?” he added with a sneer.
“Nay, I rather enjoy this form, and I owe it all to thee Magus!”
Magus scowled.
“I have something for thee!” the Frog said.
He pulled the Masamune blade from its sheath and held it out menacingly in front of him. Magus didn’t move.
“Ah, the Masamune...” he said, the contempt clearly showing in his voice. “I bet you’re just dying to use it!”
The Frog stared at the wizard, resolve etched onto his face. Crono stepped up beside the Frog and pulled out his blade. Marle likewise loaded her bow, and Lucca readied her pistol.
Magus surveyed the group calmly.
“Very well then...” he said casually reaching out into the darkness. From somewhere he produced a scythe. A huge weapon it was, at least Magus’ height. The metre long curved blade glinted darkly in the light of the altar. The shaft was black. He stood facing them cooly, his weapon held out in his right hand beside him. The dark wind seemed to grow stronger.
“The black wind begins to blow” he whispered.
He eyed them menacingly and smiled in contempt. But for a second, a mere instant, they saw something else. A glimmer of immense sadness, that was hidden the moment it appeared.
“So be it...give me your best shot...” Magus scoffed, raising his voice so that its echo filled the room.
“If you’re prepared for the void!”
With remarkable dexterity he swung the scythe into the air and sent it whirling above his head. Crono vas almost too late bringing up his sword before the scythe sliced down towards him. Magus was swift. As quickly as he had attacked, he had retreated a few metres, not running but flying through the air. The Frog jumped forward, the blade of the Masamune slashing down for Magus’ head. Yet Magus had already dodged, and the sword sent sparks up from the floor as it struck the stone. Marle’s arrow cut through the air, but the shot had been wild and, missing Magus, vanished in the distance. Meanwhile, Crono had recovered from the attack and was once more upon Magus. He dealt him a few heavy blows, but the wizard deflected them masterfully and without effort. Lucca took aim at Magus and fired. The blast hit Magus between the shoulders, but did no more than knock him down. Lucca looked at her weapon in disgust. The wizard was quick to recover, and was up in a heartbeat. But the Frog had once again pounced on him, this time catching him off his guard. The Masamune swung in a deadly arc grazing the magicians arm. Red blood flowed from the wound, though no more than a scratch. Magus fixed an evil stare on his opponent and stretched out his hand towards him. Instantaneously the darkness about Magus grew and an intangible force knocked the Frog back a dozen metres. Then he turned on the others. Marle let fly one more bolt and rushed to the Frog’s side. Crono and Lucca ran towards their foe. Magus brought up his scythe in a defensive position as Crono swung with all his might. At that instant magical flames sprang from Lucca’s hand and struck Crono’s blade. As the blade glowed and fire ran down its edges he struck full force at Magus’ weapon. The shaft of the scythe shattered under the magical attack, and Magus had to jump backward to avoid the fiery blade. Crono bore down on his enemy, thinking him defenceless. But from his side Magus had pulled the sickle. Using it to block Crono’s sword he dealt a vicious blow to his enemy with his other hand, sending Crono reeling back in agony. Magus smiled wickedly as he surveyed his foes. Crono lay doubled up on the ground, Lucca was virtually weaponless, and Marle was still trying to revive the Frog. Picking up the broken end of his scythe he hurled it at Crono with incredible force, gashing his cheek. Crono jumped up, still in pain, but necessity rallying his strength. Magus laughed.
“You fool”
---
And here, the same things, yet re-written. This should exemplify why re-writing can be seen as laudable.
That glance startled all but Glenn. For he alone of the four had seen it before... only once before. Upon the darkest of days, and still the dread eyes haunted the deep corners of his memory. The visage was sallow and pale like that of a ghost, so gaunt that the very shadows were caught in menacing ways upon his cheeks. His hair was dark, violet or blue (it could not be seen fully aright), and was allowed to fall free below his shoulders. For all accounts here was no man, but rather a mystic, even as the creatures that served him. For even his ears were sharp in an unhuman way. And the sheen of the eyes was red. Their glance was of both mockery and amusement at once. And he was tall, far beyond the measure of any of them. Six, perhaps seven feet to the crown, and with sinews of adamant. It half crossed Crono’s mind that, had he been told the fullness of this man’s presence, he should have let the others take this path alone. And even then he spoke, with a voice deep and harsh like the report of thunder in the hall:
“What is it that we have here? It is that fool of a frog. Still you remain thus: unchanged in appearance since the day I cast that semblance upon you. Have you not thrown it aside yet, base squire of a fallen knight? Have you found no princess willing to give their kiss for the spell-breaking?”
He laughed greatly at his own jest, and Crono could not figure which was the more terrible: that they were not standing in the very lair of this fabled magician, or that he laughed at their threat. If he was so without fright, then they were surely doomed.
Glenn, however, was a measure more bold. In defiance of the sorcerer’s jest, he replied:
“My form is not without some measure of good. Indeed, I rather enjoy it, at whiles. See, now, sorcerer, I mock you: Magus of shadows, I shall turn this curse crossways yet!”
The sorcerer said naught, his wits perhaps unused to so unafraid a reply. A scowl was the only answer.
“And now see: I have something for thee!” Glenn cried, and drew from its scabbard the Masamune. With a knightly flourish he held it before him in the manner of a lord’s challenge. The sorcerer did naught at first. Then slowly came a reply.
“Ah, the Masamune,” he said, in near to a whisper. There was a measure of contempt, and perhaps even a touch of fear as he said it, but at once the former took full command, and he raised his voice to a half-disdainful laugh saying: “I reckon that you’re just dying to use it, fool.”
Glenn returned the dire gaze of the wizard with a stern resolve; once before he had faced this dark enchanter, and then he had failed. He would see to it that a like thing would not chance again. He brandished the sword before him, and the others, at his left and right, bore ready their own array of weapons: sword and bow and flintlock pistol.
The wizard looked from one to the next, and it was plain that he was measuring the strengths and weaknesses of each. But whatever his dark mind saw, it remained hidden, and only a soft smile touched upon his lips as he said:
“Very well, then, children.”
And he reached a hand into the darkness; from the shadows he drew a weapon. It was neither sword nor spear, but rather a scythe, not unlike that which the reapers were wont to use at harvest for felling the wheat. Or, perhaps more telling, akin to the old renderings of death itself. For surely the scythe was beyond the measure of most; this wizard was taller than any of the four without doubt, but the topmost point was above the crest of his head, and the long blade shone with a silvern sheen in the unlight of the room. And at that a dark wind seemed to rise within the hall, and not one of the four felt comforted by this, for it was grim and cold, as if it were the whispers of some dread prophecy.
The wizard too felt this thing, and casting a far gaze into the darkness whispered:
“Ah, the black wind begins to blow,” and he laughed.
“So be it then, children,” he said, striking the haft twice to the ground so that the report echoed noisomely. “If you wish my blood, do so to the best of your skill. But be mindful, for only Hades awaits you!”
With far greater skill than any reaper of the fields, the blade was hafted into the dark air. The fingers of the wizard were skilled in far more than simply spellcraft, it seemed: he bore his dread weapon with ease, turning it here and there about him as a knight at play, brandishing an arming sword. Swift, indeed. Nearly too quick for Crono, for it was only a moment’s breath later that the blade was swept for his neck, halted only by a hasty and clumsy parry.
And at that the wizard leaped back in feigned retreat, his steps hardly more than catfalls upon the earth. Or perhaps he even flew, but to judge such things was difficult, and the enchantment was heavy in the air.
“If this is to be the manner of this battle, it may go hard with us,” Glenn muttered, but drawing up his eyes cried: “Return hither, coward. But who would fault you if you should flee? A child, a cursed squire, and two maidens are a dreadful foe for any man.”
It was not well placed, maybe, but Glenn knew the report of this sorcerer well: he would ill endure any such suggestions of cowardice. His steel-shod steps were as thunder in the dark room as he came forward again.
“Do you wish so greatly for death, squire of Cyrus?” He said, drawing firm his fingers about the black haft of the scythe. “Do you know the power of this one you face, or are you drawn to doom by some evil chance of fate, like so many others? Know that I am Magus of the Mystics, Asarel ar Asant Medina. Hold to your bravery, if you wish, but know that I fear neither you nor your enchanted blade.”
A bolt off Marle’s crossbow sung a path through the air. A coward’s stroke, maybe, yet when one combats so dark a lord as this, who can judge fairness? But it was to little avail regardless: it was wild and vanished in the dark.
The Masamune leaped, and the sorcerer parried, sparking as its failed stroke met the ground. Glenn spoke a low prayer, and struck again, swifter and more fell than before. But though it was true, whatever blood ran through the veins of this foe was that of a master warrior. The holy sword missed its mark yet again, and in return the wizard dealt a heavy stroke of his hand across Glenn’s face. The strap broke and his helm flew from his head; he himself faltered to the earth, his eyes in a swoon. Perilous, to be certain, for the scythe was ready for blood and singing a high note through the air already, but Crono was there at once to hold off the blow, and Glenn was saved.
“Ah, a swift one, I see,” the wizard laughed. “Do so again, and I will strike off the hand that foils my blow. Kimtos!”
And at that word, Crono was thrown to the earth and backward further than a score of paces. He rose wearily, wondering at what this was. If it was sorcery, it was potent beyond anything he had thought possible. What was this sorcerer, now? Man or demon, or a mingling of demon in the guise of a man?
Now, all this while, Lucca had stood her ground, with an eyes of watching only, waiting for a moment in which to make a fell stroke. Now, as the sorcerer stood over Glenn with an eye for death, she deemed it had come. A tongue of fire leaped from the barrel of her gun. A masterful shot, too, for it found its mark at the heart. But whatever armour this man bore beneath his sable robes, it held true. He turned his eyes upon her with a laugh.
“So you make your move in this game, then? And with what an array of arms? Cunningly constructed, I think, but holding no strength against the armoury of the ancient world. Know this of me...”
Glenn rose, and whatever more the wizard was minded to say were silenced. Twin blows were traded, and he fell back a pace.
“Hold your peace, squire!”
Whatever sorcery had assaulted Crono now worked its spell upon Glenn, only thrice as strong. He was overcome in a half-moment, and struck heavily to the stone ground. Marle, with an ever-compassionate heart, leaped to his side, and fought to work her subtle sigaldry upon him.
And even as she turned aside, Crono and Lucca made essay to strike down the dark one for the last. Crono’s blade was flourished swiftly, across to one side and then to the other; Lucca, by her arts and learning spoke short words of command, in the near-forgotten tongue of an ancient realm: “Rotha achos!”
The flames that leaped from her fingertips were perilous indeed, and they caught themselves upon the keen blade-edge of Crono’s sword.
“What is this?” the wizard muttered, scarcely heard above the clamour of the flames. “A child of learning to know that tongue, indeed; sooth, it shall not avail against me!”
But even so it was that, when Crono came upon the sorcerer, his sword was whelmed in flames. Twice, three times he struck. At the fourth the wizard’s black-hafted scythe shattered, and with a certain measure of plain alarm, he retreated a pace from the child’s deft assault. And then Crono erred: he thought the sorcerer defenceless, and pressed forward what he thought to be the final attack. But catching at the ruined blade of the scythe in his left, and drawing from his side a sickle in his right, his foe was full prepared. A great rending of steel sounded in the hall, and Crono faltered, his weapon wrested from his grip.
Magus shut fast his eyes and cast out a hand. At once a darkness, like to a wave or sudden gale wind, leaped from the nothingness, and whelmed in about Crono and Lucca. To their hearts it was as though a freezing terror had taken hold of them, and their eyes were darkened to all light. In that moment, they almost despaired of all life, for such was the great wizard’s power that even their heroic will could not contend with his dark sigaldry. But it passed even at the brink, and they faltered with a mingling of keen relief and fear to their knees. For certainly they were freed from the mighty spell, but worse there was: their limbs were weakened so that they could make no trial at defence, and Magus came with heavy steel paces before them, drawing high his blade for a single death-swath. Surely they would have died even then, but from the far length of the room, a swift arrow was loosed: Marle had arisen again, with Glenn at her side. The arrow wound a straight and fell path through the air and halting fast in the armour of the sorcerer.
-
Haven't heard of that book...
About conveying something a character just plain can't see...either you hint at it, or you leave it out. What are you wanting to communicate that can't be seen? If you're wanting to be in Schala's POV but still have Janus' little pacing and stuff beforehand (since that's something she can't see), you can start in Schala's mind as she goes through the palace toward Janus' room, and she can be anticipating what he's probably doing in there. (She is his older sister, after all... It's easy to believe that she can predict him like that.) As for the thoughts regarding the Mammon Machine, some of these can actually be Schala's own thoughts, as she reviews in her mind things that Janus may have told her previously.
Yes, if Janus is the only one in the room, and you start the scene in his room, then he's the POV character...unless you're telling it through Alfador's POV! In which case, not much of the dialogue would be understandable. Anyway...here's the outline of how the scene would go if you want to start in Janus' POV and then follow Schala out...
--Janus' POV
Pacing the room, thinking about dream. Schala walks in. Conversation between Janus and Schala. Schala leaves. Section break.
--Schala's POV
Start with Schala closing the door and starts walking down the hall to wherever she's going.
OK, that's the only change in POV that I'm talking about. Before you write the scene, you just need to know whose POV you want to be in. In scenes where it's very important to have the emotions and thoughts of BOTH characters, you have to decide before you start writing which is more important...and if they're both equally important, then go with the POV of the character who is in the location first (in this case, Janus) so that we don't miss any action there. Then when the next character (Schala) enters, communicate her actions by mentioning what Janus NOTICES that communicate her feelings to HIM. When she says "It'll be okay," does he notice that she sounds like a bad liar? This would be a good way to say she's lying. Simply make him a bit suspicious of her words.
In a particular scene in my book, I basically had an angel disguised as a human, transforming into her true "angel" form in front of a human. In this case, it was VERY important for me to show the human's feelings and reactions, and I had to keep the visual spectacle of the angel's transformation. In addition, she had to speak for a brief moment in her native tongue, which the human didn't understand, but I needed to make sure the reader did. That scene was a Point-Of-View deathtrap. The way I solved it:
I decided that his emotions were more important than the angel's, so I started in the human's POV. He enters the scene, they speak for a few minutes, she begins to float into the air and transform. When she speaks in her native language, I worked around that by saying that "although he didn't know the words, Todd felt like the message came through clearly into his mind nonetheless," or something like that, and then I just put in what she had said. That was the only smooth way to break POV there. Afterward, I mainly focused on his reactions to everything he was seeing and being told, and anytime I needed to convey an emotion of the angel, I did so through her voice and facial expressions.
Sorry for rambling. I'm trying to get you to understand what I mean here. I'm tellin' ya, that's just industry standard...it helps keep the book more structured and well-formed instead of randomly hopping around and such. Try it for a while and you'll see what I mean. I agree that it can be nasty to work with at first, but it soon gets fun. :)
-
Well, I still don't like that idea...It seems limiting.
Also, you haven't heard of Strunk & White's The Elements of Style??? Or...wait...do you mean Stephen King & Peter Straub's The Black House (sequal to The Talisman)?
-
Neither.
I know it sounds limiting, and IT IS. Trust me, just try it. It helps to keep you from going off and describing every random thing in excrutiating detail, a habit I constantly have to keep in check. As I said, it holds the book into a better "form" by focusing on one "mind" at a time, if you will.
Also, now that I'm at home (the above posts were while I was at work and was VERY limited in internet access), I can point you to some stuff...
http://anitraweb.org/kalliope/pov.html
In this link, you'll find the following:
There are basically three different styles to the third person POV. You can limit yourself to what any external observer could see of the situation; "Danny and Joe slowly tossed the baseball back and forth in the summer heat." You can, as in the excerpt from Bebe Campbell, describe the view from behind one character's eyes, including their thoughts and emotions: "Every time Danny tossed the ball back he hoped that Joe would finally say 'That's it, let's go get a drink.'" Or you may choose to be an omniscient narrator, dipping behind the eyes of all characters. After Danny's observation, you could say, "Every time Danny slowly lobbed the baseball back, Joe wished he'd put some fire into it. They were never going to win a game this way. The nerd was probably hoping he'd call the practice and go for drinks."
The temptation of most writers is to tell the reader everything that all characters are feeling. The irony is, this distances most readers from the story. Describing dialogue, facial expression and action, then letting the readers figure out the thoughts & emotions themselves, makes the readers feel more involved in the story.
The effect of switching POV too often has been called "POV whiplash."
...Or "Head Hopping" as my editor says. I'll add more references like this for you in a little bit.
EDIT: However, as you'll see in this link (http://com1.runboard.com/bthescribesmessageboard.fwritingarchives.t306), the rule is not set in stone. Read that page of the forum in detail. The user mspatric sums things up quite nicely:
Head hopping = Third person omnipresent view
Also known as "the narrator is GOD"= knows what everyone in a scene is thinking/doing.
It's actually a very common technique used in novels of every genre. It was taught in my English classes in middle and high school, and it is accepted as a proper literary technique. Orson Scott Card and several other famous authors use it all the time.
The most vital rule is that each seperate sentence/paragraph should deal with what one character is thinking. The one POV per scene rule was expanded from that, but it is not written in stone.
This POV is often used just to save time so the author doesn't have to go into graphic detail to you show you that one character hates/loves/whatever another. They can just say "XXX lied to the captain because he/she hated ensign YYY with every...". Some readers like this, while others prefer to discover the emotion by judging a character's actions.
Some publishers will publish it, others won't. Publishers think they know what their readers like/dislike, and act accordingly.
I usually write in this view, though I have started restricting the POV to one person per scene lately. It's nice to try new things.
This POV is probably best used for massive stories, like space operas and epic fantasy, or where the focus is not on one character. Why are the aliens attacking? Why do the various factions act the way they do?
Good old sword-and-sorcery and other types probably benefit better from only seeing the world through the main character's eyes.
Remember:
There are different focuses to stories (all have these, but focus on them differently). Most of you have already learned these in writing classes/books/groups/whatever, but his a general review:
Character
Worried about the party or one character and how they change/face a situation. Reader needs to become attached to (or despise in case of villains) the character.
Milieu
Takes you to another place/time and focuses on describing it to you. Omnipresent very common so you can vividly picture the world and the mindsets of its inhabitants.
Idea
Some idea/concept must be discovered (sometimes the moral of the story).
Event
Some great event happens and must be dealt with. Omnipresent very common, since event affects many lives and usually reshapes the world.
-
Well that makes more sense...I do it in this scene because I think it's important to and also because it's a single scene, which is actually a flashback/memory in my fanfic...Now, I could have restricted it to Janus, thusly making sense since it's his memory, but I wanted to expand because Schala isn't a 'big' character in my story and thusly wanted to show readers what she's thinking and what she thought about Janus. I don't think I did it a lot in that scene, nor do I think it's confusing as long as it's made clear who's doing/thinking what.
And, while I can overlook not having read The Black House (it's no The Talisman anyways...)...Every writer should give a quick glancing over (ok, they should read it in-depth, happy?) of The Elements of Style. It's one of the most concise (under a 100 pgs!) writer's guides on the planet.
-
In a particular scene in my book, I basically had an angel disguised as a human, transforming into her true "angel" form in front of a human. In this case, it was VERY important for me to show the human's feelings and reactions, and I had to keep the visual spectacle of the angel's transformation. In addition, she had to speak for a brief moment in her native tongue, which the human didn't understand, but I needed to make sure the reader did. That scene was a Point-Of-View deathtrap.
Could you not have left the language unknown to his ears? That is, personally, how I would have solved it. I toss in little phrases like 'es diom kuro, es diom ander' and the like into my writing, but don't explain them. I usually figure other languages are more part of the setting and ambience, a way to make the world feel realistic, than part of the plot proper.
Anyway, you keep mentioning your 'editor'. Are you a writer?
-
Yes, I am.
In the case of the foreign language, what had happened is that the angel (Jullinar) had her hand over the human's (Todd's) eyes and was about to show him the spiritual realm of the world, that is, all angels and demons would be visible to him for the next minute or two. When the covered his eyes, the idea was for her to pray, saying something like "Lord, please open this man's eyes and show him what You see here." Then she takes her hand away from his eyes and he can see all kinds of interesting stuff.
Leaving it in foreign language would have made it seem like she was casting a spell of some kind, which I wanted to avoid. I had other reasons as well, but that's the short story. :)
Daniel, how much of CT did you write with that expanded dialogue? I loved it. In fact I'm about to insert your expanded dialogue into that scene in my ROM. That was just too cool. :) If you have more, I'd love to see it, maybe in a PM or email or something. Let me know please.
-
Lol, A debate about a fanfic.
Jake-A-Roonie, I acctually thought your beginning story was good. But I didn't really get where it was coming from, the dream I mean. First I thought it was about Zeal, then the monster that was upside down Oo Lavos? But at the end of the dream, the part about the emerald spires and the girl with blood, was that Marle?
-
Lol, A debate about a fanfic.
Jake-A-Roonie, I acctually thought your beginning story was good. But I didn't really get where it was coming from, the dream I mean. First I thought it was about Zeal, then the monster that was upside down Oo Lavos? But at the end of the dream, the part about the emerald spires and the girl with blood, was that Marle?
From what I got, it was Zeal at first, then it morphed into the Ocean Palace incident. The girl could have been Malre or Ayla, but from how he wrote Crono's emotion towards the battered body I think it was Marle.
-
Yes, it was Zeal Palace, then it transformed into Lavos. I described Lavos kind of strange because I was going through Crono's point of view, so I tried to put it how he might say it. At first I used the term "dome," but Crono wouldn't have seen a "dome" before, so I figured that he might say it looked like an upside-down bowl.
Yes, the girl is Marle.
The emerald spires... Ah, you mean the spikes... Yeah, those are the spikes all over Lavos.
And if you mean the other spires, on Zeal Palace...the way I described the color of the palace, I wanted to faintly hint that the whole place was made of Dreamstone (hence the stone glowing red at certain angles).
Thanks for the compliments, I really appreciate it. :)
-
Yes, I am.
Wow. I hope to some day accomplish enough to have something published, for which I asked - though at the speed I write, and considering that I wish to make it as good as I may, it will likely be upward of a decade from now. But anyway, how hard is it to have something published?
Daniel, how much of CT did you write with that expanded dialogue? I loved it. In fact I'm about to insert your expanded dialogue into that scene in my ROM. That was just too cool. :) If you have more, I'd love to see it, maybe in a PM or email or something. Let me know please.
Of that sort? Only so much as you saw. Its origin lies back when I attempted to write a CT novelization, oh, three or so years ago. I gave that up shortly after beginning, and started writing my CT/CC fanfiction/sequel, Twilight of Fate, which I finally was able to finish just last October after two years of writing. I think it was while I was attempting to write some menial essay or another for a class two semesters ago (I think it was EngG 463, come to think of it, which would be about designing heatings systems: horribly boring. I failed it, too) that I happened upon that old manuscript, and attempted to update it to something in a more current style of mine. That second updated one was the result. I never went back and did any more of that, though. I've moved on to writing my own stories - or attempting it - and so left behind most of those things. So, no, I never wrote any more actual things directly from the Chrono Trigger story in that form. Although, I suppose, that is the form of dialogue I near always attempt to use nowadays (and, actually, comes most naturally to me.)
Anyway, it means a lot to me for someone to say that they liked something in my writing like that, as I'm bloody insecure about it all, continually doubting my abilities on the matter. So, thank-you.
-
You're bloody welcome. :)
Yes, I actually DID insert that into my ROM, though I did make a small change here and there... What did I change? Ah, here we are. On the part where you put:
Magus: Ah, the Masamune. I reckon that you’re just dying to use it, fool.
I did think it was strange that Magus would say "I reckon." I pictured him spitting right before saying it! And I'm from Texas! :lol: So right there, I inserted the part where he talks about who he is. So now, in-game, it says:
Frog: My form is not without some measure of good. Indeed, I rather enjoy it, at whiles. See, now, sorcerer, I mock you (I think I changed this to "Verily, sorcerer, I mock thee"): Magus of shadows, I shall turn this curse crossways yet! And now see: I have something for thee!
Magus: Do you wish so greatly for death, squire of Cyrus? Do you know the power of this one you face, or are you drawn to doom by some evil chance of fate, like so many others? Know that I am Magus of the Mystics, Asarel ar Asant Medina. Hold to your bravery, if you wish, but know that I fear neither you nor your enchanted blade. Ah, the black wind begins to blow... So be it then, children. If you wish my blood, do so to the best of your skill. But be mindful, for only Hades awaits you!
Anyway, it comes out pretty well in the game. :) I had to change the timing for that since it automatically advances the text, and I had to change when the music starts...but other than that, it rocks. :)
On the subject of publishing, getting things published is a little skill, a lot of luck. The "skill" comes not just in your writing, but in knowing what your target publisher is looking for. You need to know everything about them...what kind of style they want, desired length, how they like their coffee, EVERYTHING. How? Writer's Market.
As a Christian author, I use the Christian Writer's Market Guide, and I think mine is year 2003. It has a comprehensive list of publishers for different genres, magazine publishers, agents and agencies, it's just chock-full of great info. On the publishers, it has a list of data that the publisher has filled out... Usually it includes what genre(s) they publish, desired length, how many books they publish a year, what percentage of published books are first-time authors, average number of copies for first print, whether they offer reprints if your book is wildly successful, how they prefer for you to contact them (VERY useful!), how long they take to respond, and other comments.
Well, my writing usually gets compared to that of Frank Peretti -- a fairly well-known Christian fiction author -- and so that's the style I market myself with when a publisher asks what my style is like. I tell them I am told that I write like Frank Peretti. Well ironically, I found a publisher while skimming in the Writer's Market that said in its comments, "Looking for the next Frank Peretti." I checked to see how they say to contact them, and it said e-query. I wrote up an e-query letter (if you don't know, query letters are just brief notes that say "I'm writing a book in this genre for this target audience, would you be interested?") and fired it off. 2 weeks later, they emailed me back and said "Send us a sample."
Long story short, we started working together, they gave me a list of editors to talk to and choose from, I "interviewed" several and chose one, and am now working with her on getting my book polished up and ready to go. :)
If I end up going with this publisher, just know it's *SO* rare to get accepted by your very first publisher! I sent out a couple of other e-query letters at the same time to other publishers, and I STILL haven't heard back from them! That was more than 6 months ago! But just keep after it.
You seen the movie Hitch? "ANYtime, ANYwhere, ANY man has the chance to sweep ANY woman off her feet. Just gotta have the right broom." Same deal with publishers. Long as you know what you're doing, it'll come to you eventually.
-
You're bloody welcome. :)
Yes, I actually DID insert that into my ROM, though I did make a small change here and there... What did I change? Ah, here we are. On the part where you put:
Magus: Ah, the Masamune. I reckon that you’re just dying to use it, fool.
I did think it was strange that Magus would say "I reckon." I pictured him spitting right before saying it! And I'm from Texas! :lol: So right there, I inserted the part where he talks about who he is. So now, in-game, it says:
Frog: My form is not without some measure of good. Indeed, I rather enjoy it, at whiles. See, now, sorcerer, I mock you (I think I changed this to "Verily, sorcerer, I mock thee"): Magus of shadows, I shall turn this curse crossways yet! And now see: I have something for thee!
Magus: Do you wish so greatly for death, squire of Cyrus? Do you know the power of this one you face, or are you drawn to doom by some evil chance of fate, like so many others? Know that I am Magus of the Mystics, Asarel ar Asant Medina. Hold to your bravery, if you wish, but know that I fear neither you nor your enchanted blade. Ah, the black wind begins to blow... So be it then, children. If you wish my blood, do so to the best of your skill. But be mindful, for only Hades awaits you!
Sounds Texan? You know, I had not truly thought of that. I shall have to watch that from now onward... ah, good, I only use it only three times in my existing manuscript for my writing. I hadn't realized quite how it sounds to another. To me it was just a way of lightening what might otherwise be heavy speech and dialogue.
Oh, by the way, Asarel ar Asant Medina means nothing more than Lord of the East and Master of Medina. Asar (or Azar in some dialects) is East, and El is (which I borrowed from Hebrew) lord (in real this figures in as God into my very own name Daniel, 'God has vindicated me/God is my judge' - a very nice name, I think, that combines both Law and Gospel, depending on translation. Figures into Bethel, too, and a host of other names.)
On the subject of publishing, getting things published is a little skill, a lot of luck. The "skill" comes not just in your writing, but in knowing what your target publisher is looking for. You need to know everything about them...what kind of style they want, desired length, how they like their coffee, EVERYTHING. How? Writer's Market.
As a Christian author, I use the Christian Writer's Market Guide, and I think mine is year 2003. It has a comprehensive list of publishers for different genres, magazine publishers, agents and agencies, it's just chock-full of great info. On the publishers, it has a list of data that the publisher has filled out... Usually it includes what genre(s) they publish, desired length, how many books they publish a year, what percentage of published books are first-time authors, average number of copies for first print, whether they offer reprints if your book is wildly successful, how they prefer for you to contact them (VERY useful!), how long they take to respond, and other comments.
Well, my writing usually gets compared to that of Frank Peretti -- a fairly well-known Christian fiction author -- and so that's the style I market myself with when a publisher asks what my style is like. I tell them I am told that I write like Frank Peretti. Well ironically, I found a publisher while skimming in the Writer's Market that said in its comments, "Looking for the next Frank Peretti." I checked to see how they say to contact them, and it said e-query. I wrote up an e-query letter (if you don't know, query letters are just brief notes that say "I'm writing a book in this genre for this target audience, would you be interested?") and fired it off. 2 weeks later, they emailed me back and said "Send us a sample."
Long story short, we started working together, they gave me a list of editors to talk to and choose from, I "interviewed" several and chose one, and am now working with her on getting my book polished up and ready to go. :)
If I end up going with this publisher, just know it's *SO* rare to get accepted by your very first publisher! I sent out a couple of other e-query letters at the same time to other publishers, and I STILL haven't heard back from them! That was more than 6 months ago! But just keep after it.
You seen the movie Hitch? "ANYtime, ANYwhere, ANY man has the chance to sweep ANY woman off her feet. Just gotta have the right broom." Same deal with publishers. Long as you know what you're doing, it'll come to you eventually.
Frank Peretti... let me check that... hmm... I thought I'd heard of him before. I read one of his books, or most of one, a very, very long time ago.
Unfortunately I don't know who I write like. I think I was influenced by Tolkien to some degree, though I long since ceased attempting to purposefully emulate his style to a large extent and rather chose to be influenced by multiple sources (thankfully, as I think it would be near impossible, not to mention foolish, to actually attempt to write specifically like someone else.) But things here and there influence me, and certain sentence and paragraph forms are borrowed from the Iliad, from the Bible (both for the occasional stylistic element, and for such things as theology), and so forth (say, the extended simile form of the Iliad caught me the other day, and I made use of it once.) The style overall is, well, me, and I don't know who else writes like this (or, as is more likely, it is difficult for me to analyze my own writing in comparison.) Very often I go formal (or, I think it's formal. Not exactly what you'd call colloquial or maybe even natural speech), and I very much adore the style of myth and legend and the old epics that spring from them. Furthermore, I think I may have the problem of being too religious in the writer for some secular people, and not enough for the more Christan book-form. How Tolkien was able to walk his fine line is always such a wonder. A philosopher that held to the deepest Christian morals and beliefs, yet hid them in such a subtle way that they are apparent not overtly, but wind their way into one's mind with the air of old legend. But anyway, I'm rambling: I may run into trouble describing its style, when the time comes.
Thank you very much for the information, that is incredibly useful to know. I will keep that in mind if I ever try to publish anything (although, as I have said, it may well be a decade before I finish it and/or mature enough in writing and plot-forming to make something publishable.)
But anyway, so you are essentially saying know your publisher, then leave it to persistance and luck? I'll keep that in mind when the time comes. Thanks again.
-
If it was a "very, very long time ago," you may have read Piercing The Darkness or This Present Darkness, both of which are about spiritual warfare and are the specific books my writing is compared to.
Back when I was about 10 or so, I read some children's books he had written, but I have not read any of Peretti's work since, nor do I intend to.
That's actually part of the reason why I just don't read much anymore. People tell you to read, read, read, so you can be influenced by all these writers...but you know, I tend to borrow too easily and too obviously, and so now that I have developed my style into my own unique "brand" of writing, I actually avoid reading others so that I don't end up coming off as a "Nora Roberts clone" or whatever...not that I'm interested in her books anyway. =P
But yeah, just keep after it with your publishers. What I did to start, once I had my Writer's Market book, I looked at the list of genres, decided on 2 or 3 genres my book would fit into, and then I went through and highlighted all the publishers that did stuff in that genre, asking myself these questions as I went.
Does this publisher accept first-time authors?
If so, what percentage of books are from first-timers?
How many books do they publish a year?
Do they offer reprints?
Does my book fit their desired length, within 100 pages or so?
How do I contact them?
There are probably a couple other important ones too, but those stood out in my mind. With the publisher I'm working with now, I told them straight-up that I am not close to being done with the book yet, and that when I AM done, it may well be double their page requirement. They seemed okay with that.
Once I used those questions and made a list of the publishers I was interested in, I wrote up e-queries to those that preferred e-queries. I put the ones that require a literary agency on the back burner for the time being, since I don't have an agent and haven't felt like getting one until a little later. Other forms of contact, like snailmail, also went on the back burner. Luckily, as you know, I got a positive response from the first one I emailed. :)
-
If it was a "very, very long time ago," you may have read Piercing The Darkness or This Present Darkness, both of which are about spiritual warfare and are the specific books my writing is compared to.
Back when I was about 10 or so, I read some children's books he had written, but I have not read any of Peretti's work since, nor do I intend to.
That's actually part of the reason why I just don't read much anymore. People tell you to read, read, read, so you can be influenced by all these writers...but you know, I tend to borrow too easily and too obviously, and so now that I have developed my style into my own unique "brand" of writing, I actually avoid reading others so that I don't end up coming off as a "Nora Roberts clone" or whatever...not that I'm interested in her books anyway. =P
Actually, it was the Door in the Dragon's Throat, I know that with certainty.
But that last paragraph of yours made me laugh, only in that it seems so familiar. I used to read like crazy, book after book, and be very quick at it, too (in my house, only my little sister is faster.) But then I read LOTR and the Silmarillion, and played Chrono Trigger, and begain writing. I became paranoid, if that is the right word, of my style being too gravely influenced by reading too many things not in keeping with the way I write, and so, in despite of my parents attempting to get me to read, have read very little in the last two or so years. I read the fifth Harry Potter when it came back a year or two back, but beyond that, I've only now begun reading the Iliad, which I think actually is aiding my style somewhat. But I know precisely what you mean: I'm constantly afraid as coming off as a Tolkien, or worse, typical fantasy, clone (I see myself now and again falling into cliches, and it bothers me immensely.) I think I've got my own writing style now as well (remember that Chrono bit, where Frog says that 'he will turn this curse crossways yet'? I don't think I've ever seen crossways used in that way, but that's the way I do things), but I think my plot writing still leaves some originality to be desired. But, come to think of it, what else can one do with a grand war tale? Tolkien did so well with it, it is hard not to emulate him, especially one for me whose memory is so keen on his work (I still remember the family tree of Finwë, even though I never actually tried to memorize it.) I have neither Elves nor Dwarves, at least, only the Nephilim, so perhaps that is something. But anyway, once again, that comment made me laugh for the similarity it displayed.