Chrono Compendium
Zenan Plains - Site Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: dan_death on April 12, 2009, 10:10:59 pm
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I say it's going to be bad, because, most likely, Hollywood will screw it up. It's said that they're making Zac Efron (High School Musical) to be Sousuke Sagara. I will be definitely pissed if he is going to be Sousuke. I have nothing really much to say, but I probably won't watch it, even though I love Full Metal Panic!, the live-action movie will most likely be crap.
They should at least pick someone more suitable for the main role.
I just hope that Dreamworks and Steven Spielberg do justice to the Ghost in the Shell live-action movie.
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I just hope that Dreamworks and Steven Spielberg do justice to the Ghost in the Shell live-action movie.
You know if he's producing or directing?
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There's not any information on that yet, but most likely he'll be directing, and so far the confirmed producers are Avi Arad and Steven Paul.
And while I'm on the subject of anime and movies, the Eureka Seven movie will be out in Japan this month, on the 25th.
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Have you heard about Leo DiCaprio's live action Akira movies? I don't have any other info on them. But he wants to make them. Damn you for starting all this, Speed Racer!
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Great, when will it end?
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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
It's the nature of Hollywood. They see something popular, and seek to turn it
into something they can use.
It's usually a failure though.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I asked about Spielberg because it seems almost everything he produces turns out wonderful, and almost everything he directs turns to shit.
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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
It's the nature of Hollywood. They see something popular, and seek to turn it
into something they can use.
It's usually a failure though.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I asked about Spielberg because it seems almost everything he produces turns out wonderful, and almost everything he directs turns to shit.
Well, Saving Private Ryan wasn't shit, lol well, in my opinion it wasn't.
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I asked about Spielberg because it seems almost everything he produces turns out wonderful, and almost everything he directs turns to shit.
Hahaha to War of the Worlds and the gian ALIEN ANUS that ATE TOM CRUISE in that movie. Terrible, if you ask me. I saw a 'making of' documentary and they were talking about that movie and Spielberg was saying "we changed the story so now it's about a kind of out on his luck dad, who's a bit of a deadbeat and just trying to get his kids to blah blah blah"
in other words "We thought it would be boring for parents without the soap opera shit. We thought it'd be boring to kids without the alien anuses. Dare me not to do it ahahahaha!"
Somebody should take away his director hat and shave his beard and make him look in a mirror.
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Hollywood isn't all about money. There are lots of people who love and respect a franchise and want to find a way to share it. For instance, I'd love to work on some sort of live action Chrono Trigger story.
Let's just say that I get a company to buy the licensing rights ($$$$ for the owners) for Chrono Trigger, and then proceed to begin development. One of the first problems I would run into is how to take something so fantastically unlike the real world and translate that to real world mechanics. How could we actually portray the wild hairstyles, crazy-looking locales, and awe-inspiring environs? How could we take all the wonders the Chronoverse has to offer and condense it into a two-hour film? Do we put a spin on it with the hopes of gaining a new audience or do we cross our fingers and pray that the hardcore fans can push us through and help us break even?
After all, lots of money goes into making films, so it only makes sense to recoup those costs.
Ultimately the real problem are the studios themselves. They hold the money and finance the films, and as a result have a certain sway over the film itself. If they don't like something you are forced to: 1.) either convince them otherwise and keep it the same, 2.) do as they say and keep your job, 3.) compromise in a way in which neither party really wins. And the sad thing is, if you try to fight them most of the time you get bit, because in Hollywood you can easily be replaced. There's always someone eager to leave their mark on the world, and as such, there's also always someone who will do what the studio says in order to have a job.
So although money plays a major role (there's no denying that), there's also the human condition called the 'ego' that takes it's toll.
And least that's my opinion.
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3.) compromise in a way in which neither party really wins.
This happens all too often. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_recut_by_studio)
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Well Boo, that's one reason you see so many films based on existing franchises. Sequels, or adaptations. They already have an existing fanbase, so they know they'll make money off of a movie. Even without basing them on existing franchises, film-makers attach popular hollywood figures to the films to guarantee somebody will watch it. Let's take a look at what's in theatres right now for example.
Dragonball Evolution - Adaptation from Anime/Manga
Hannah Montana The Movie - Existing Popular Franchise
Observe and Report - Original Material
Fast & Furious - Sequel
Monsters Vs. Aliens - Original Material with reknown studio
The Haunting in Connecticut - Original Material based on allegedly true paranormal stories
Knowing - Original with Nicholas Cage
Watchmen - Comic Book Adaptation
And let's look what's on the way or already came this year in the box office.
X-Men Origins, Wolverine
Transformers 2
Harry Potter and the somethingorother
Friday The 13th
Terminator Salvation
Underworld: Rise of the Lycans
Saw VI
H2: Halloween 2
Final Destination 3D
Crank 2
Star Trek
I'm not saying a groundbreaking new idea doesn't come around at all anymore, and I even listed a couple that are out in theatres that may or may not be worth a gander, but the fact is Hollywood goes where the money is, and if fans are already attached to a franchise, that's guaranteed money for them.
Edit: Hell, even films as laughably bad as 1994's Street Fighter: The Movie make money. ($99,423,521)
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I'm not saying a groundbreaking new idea doesn't come around at all anymore, and I even listed a couple that are out in theatres that may or may not be worth a gander, but the fact is Hollywood goes where the money is, and if fans are already attached to a franchise, that's guaranteed money for them.
:lol: Not just money, but also success. Films that don't go hit don't tend to recoup as much money, just as Boo explains. It's obvious Hollywood (as Holly Would) would try to make something the masses would love, and that explains success, and that explains money. They'd rather make something that would be a superhit, and that explains success and that explains money. It's human nature. Nobody wants to lose. Some may try to think creative and original, while some would be too cautious and stay close to popular adaptations or "where masses would enjoy".
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Nooooooooooo!!! Why do we americans have to ruin everything good and japanese?!?!?! Firts DBZ and now FMA?! Why?!?!?!
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Well, I personally liked War of the Worlds quite a bit, and think that the fast majority of what Spielberg makes does turn out well. There are a few high calibre directors about that usually make excellent films. Spielberg, Del Toro, Jackson, Ridley Scott, James Cameron. Michael Bay, for as much flak as he catches is an excellent director: he might not make thinking movies, but for the genre he makes, he is a good filmmaker... we can't always have high drama... even the Greeks followed up their tragic trilogies with a Satyr play.
Also, I think sometimes people are too prone to criticise the industry for making movies 'for the masses' (is thiis such a bad thing?) or, the worst complaint I have ever heard regarding Hollywood, that they can't make anything original. There are several strong points against that. Firstly, many of their greatest works are adapations. Secondly, there really is no such things as an 'original' and, indeed, some of humanity's greatest works have been 'borrowed.' Take Hamlet. Take any of the ancient Greek plays which borrowed stories wholesale from an existing mythic corpus. These are amongst our proudest literary and artistic achievements, yet by the standards many these days employ, they would be considered unoriginal. How often did we hear the Oedipus story retold in antiquity? Just from what exists we have Aeschylus' Seven Against Thebes (part of a larger trilogy that's lost) and Sophokles' Theban plays. The terrors in the house of Atreus? Both Sophokles and Euripides wrote a play called Elektra, and both took numerous forays into the story. As did Aeschylus.
The point of this is I think the vast majority of lay comments made regarding filmmaking are made out of ignorance of art. They consider that the only art is in innovation, and entirely overlook adaption and, indeed, alteration, which is the very engine of artistic development. Worse, the fans that wish for something to be exact, and start to grumble at the changes. That tires me to no end. They want such a dry and static translation of the things they obssess over that as soon as they see alterations to their beloved source they complain. We saw this with Lord of the Rings. Yes, mistakes were made in making it (ie. the Elves), but good heavens, this is what happens in art, and I think it is no less a movie for how it was made. Maybe even more so.
So sorry if I've gone on a bit of a rant. But as soon as I hear about 'Hollywood doing things justice' and things like that, it really hits a nerve for me. The movies must be judged on their own merits, NOT in comparison to the source. This is something people must be mindful of. After all, if we were so mindful of that, well... we might as well throw out all of literature, as I've already said. The greatest writers always mess with the source to such an extent that any ardent fan of it might be appalled.
I don't know though. I am a fan of very few Japanese things, Chrono Trigger and the like being amongst those. I sometimes wonder if fans' devotional love to the source material does cloud their perception of the whole matter. The only times, I think, where high fidelity is and should be kept is where the intricacy of individual words and such construction is what is important. Hamlet, or the Iliad, or some such thing, which loses what it is when you alter it (even in those cases, though, something altogether new can be crafted, so the alteration is not inherently bad...). But in cases such as this, fans' complains about it being wrecked mainly have to do with cursory and accidental details, it seems.
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Well, I personally liked War of the Worlds quite a bit, and think that the fast majority of what Spielberg makes does turn out well. There are a few high calibre directors about that usually make excellent films. Spielberg, Del Toro, Jackson, Ridley Scott, James Cameron. Michael Bay, for as much flak as he catches is an excellent director: he might not make thinking movies, but for the genre he makes, he is a good filmmaker... we can't always have high drama... even the Greeks followed up their tragic trilogies with a Satyr play.
I thoroughly enjoyed Transformers, and if you exclude the love story, Pearl Harbor was great. That's probably why I liked Transformers. No love story. Just action and comedy. Straight up entertainment.
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Well, I personally liked War of the Worlds quite a bit, and think that the fast majority of what Spielberg makes does turn out well. There are a few high calibre directors about that usually make excellent films. Spielberg, Del Toro, Jackson, Ridley Scott, James Cameron. Michael Bay, for as much flak as he catches is an excellent director: he might not make thinking movies, but for the genre he makes, he is a good filmmaker... we can't always have high drama... even the Greeks followed up their tragic trilogies with a Satyr play.
I thoroughly enjoyed Transformers, and if you exclude the love story, Pearl Harbor was great. That's probably why I liked Transformers. No love story. Just action and comedy. Straight up entertainment.
Hey, that's what Michael Bay does. If you want a thinking movie, his is not the one to see. But if you're looking just for something light, a few explosions thrown in, few do it better than he does.
Of course, there are those directors who are simply bad. Ever heard of Uwe Boll?
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Well, I personally liked War of the Worlds quite a bit, and think that the fast majority of what Spielberg makes does turn out well. There are a few high calibre directors about that usually make excellent films. Spielberg, Del Toro, Jackson, Ridley Scott, James Cameron. Michael Bay, for as much flak as he catches is an excellent director: he might not make thinking movies, but for the genre he makes, he is a good filmmaker... we can't always have high drama... even the Greeks followed up their tragic trilogies with a Satyr play.
I thoroughly enjoyed Transformers, and if you exclude the love story, Pearl Harbor was great. That's probably why I liked Transformers. No love story. Just action and comedy. Straight up entertainment.
Hey, that's what Michael Bay does. If you want a thinking movie, his is not the one to see. But if you're looking just for something light, a few explosions thrown in, few do it better than he does.
Of course, there are those directors who are simply bad. Ever heard of Uwe Boll?
Oh, God. Most people involved or even interested in film flat out refuse to even mention that name. That man doesn't deserve to die, necessarily, but I can see how one may come to that conclusion after watching Bloodrayne or Postal. It's like the source material just didn't even exist. No common sense whatsoever.
On a side note, remember the Mortal Kombat movies? Awesome as hell - when you're a kid. I tried to watch them recently and couldn't. I just couldn't.
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I agree to a point Daniel. There's nothing inherently wrong with adaptations or the borrowing of old ideas to tell a story, it's done all the time in any given form of media from comics to music to the big screen itself. The problem I have is when this is done while disregarding the effort required to make something good.
Fact is, there are some really bad movies out there. Some so awful you wonder how any production company could let them happen. I'll admit, seeing some of these stinkers had turned my perception of the last decade or so of movies sour, and left me rather critical of any films I choose to see, yet I still try and give these creations a chance.
Any successful franchise has the potential to be picked up by someone in hopes of making a movie. For years anime had only a cult following through fansubs and the rare series to be dubbed every once in a while. Then in the late 90s it hit mainstream with network attention to series like Pokemon, DBZ and the Toonami lineup, and more series began to see releases outside of Japan. Now, like everything that exists, people are pondering the live action adaptations of these and just starting to churn some out.
I'm not saying they're all going to be bad movies, but the reason they're being made is because they have a strong audience. If someone had gone up to a production company with the script for the Dragonball movie in the early 90s he would have been tossed out the door. Now Hollywood sees cash potential, so they greenlight it. But they're not the only ones, writers, actors, directors and so on see cash potential too. Whether they're any damn good at making movies or not some people in the business don't care. They can make the worst adaptation of a franchise possible, and are still guaranteed money because of the name alone.
You are right though, some people take too much flak for their work. I agree with you about Michael Bay, and frankly loved Transformers and the new Friday the 13th movie. I'll probably wind up seeing the new X-Men movie and definitely see Revenge of the Fallen as well.
On a final note, a Spielberg directed GitS movie does actually sound somewhat promising. Stating most of what he directs turns to shit was a personal opinion, even then there are some of his directorial works I've liked (Indiana Jones pre-Crystal Skull) Hopefully they can put something together that captures the psychological elements of the series as well as the futuristic action, and not just a gigantic CG-fest.
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Heh, I suppose. Though sometimes badness is fun just for that itself. I mean... isn't it still fun to watch Jason and the Argonauts? Clash of the Titans? Silly, in some ways, but good movies even for the cheesy elements they possess. As for Boll... yeah. Just yeah. There's someone who just doesn't know how to make films, adaptions or otherwise. That's not even a question of how one uses the source material. That's just a question about his ability to make movies. I think any one of us here could on average do better.
One thing I do wonder, though... why no one tries to make an Iliad. There is an example where fidelity can yield great results. Now not to say that Troy was an altogether bad movie. I rather liked it. It just wasn't the Iliad (of course), so we can't judge it on those grounds (as I argued up above on artistic adaption.) All the same, I think there would be something that could be said for a direct adaption of the Iliad. It seems to have been neither done nor attempted ever before. I seems most filmmakers fall into the trap that Homer avoided (as per the comments of Aristotle): that he did not try and tell everything. Filmmakers seem to wish to give the start, and the end of the war. This is utterly unneccessary, as the Iliad is not about the Trojan war. I think there are very few that realise that, or how good a movie could be made with skill and caution. There are few stories considering the human condition that are greater and have more lasting resonance. It is a great irony, indeed, as the Iliad is arguably the most important work in Western literature (if for nothing else than it is the first), and yet... I doubt if even half the people here could tell me what it's about.
You don't need the bloody special effects here. You just need skilled art direction.
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Heh, I suppose. Though sometimes badness is fun just for that itself.
As a fan of MST3k and RiffTrax, I can definitely attest to that. If nothing else, awful movies do provide us with something to make fun of.
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Heh, I suppose. Though sometimes badness is fun just for that itself.
As a fan of MST3k and RiffTrax, I can definitely attest to that. If nothing else, awful movies do provide us with something to make fun of.
Well, awefulness, or just fun cheesiness. Like... this for example. Used to watch this as a kid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M678PVOf5F0
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(Indiana Jones pre-Crystal Skull)
Ah, Crystal Skull and the suckery that lies therein. Had to mention it.
As for Boll... yeah. Just yeah. There's someone who just doesn't know how to make films, adaptions or otherwise. That's not even a question of how one uses the source material. That's just a question about his ability to make movies. I think any one of us here could on average do better.
Amen to that.
One thing I do wonder, though... why no one tries to make an Iliad.
Now you don't expect the common movie-goer to be able to pronounce that title, do you? Teeheehee.
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Now you don't expect the common movie-goer to be able to pronounce that title, do you? Teeheehee.
Uh... the Iliad? Ill-ee-ad? Is it really that tough? It's the names that would probably grate on people. They'd get tired, I suppose, listening to Akhilleus, Hektor, Aias, Diomedes, etc. Not exactly 'English' type names. All the same... I think it would be majestic if filmed by an artist.
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DAMN! So much anime adapted into movie. Why? Why now? It can never go well.
Lets see...
Transformers
Speed Racer
Cowboy Bebop (damn you Keanu Reeves!)
Dragon Ball
Robotech (yeah just herd about it)
Full Metal Panic
Leonardo DiCaprio wants to do Ninja Scroll which he has rights to now
repeated claims of the Evangelion movie
Astro boy might be good since it's not live action
http://astroboy-themovie.com/
If they want to make a good live action anime it has to be a mecha or at least realistic. It just has to. Special effects aren't good enough for every character to have super powers. *cough*DBZ*cough*Second they are not one movie. It will have to be multiple movies. One of the newer Gundams could be a 6 part movie if they stayed true to the anime(even then thats 183 minutes per movie). Code Geass might work but it would really alienate much of the American audience. It just can't be done. The only reason Transformers worked out is because it's already been destroyed by American producers, plus the original story was very uninteresting.
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Don't think badly of De Caprio... he's a good actor.
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Now you don't expect the common movie-goer to be able to pronounce that title, do you? Teeheehee.
Uh... the Iliad? Ill-ee-ad? Is it really that tough? It's the names that would probably grate on people. They'd get tired, I suppose, listening to Akhilleus, Hektor, Aias, Diomedes, etc. Not exactly 'English' type names. All the same... I think it would be majestic if filmed by an artist.
Yeah, I just watched the entire Dune miniseries from SciFi cause my girlfriend couldn't believe I hadn't seen it yet, and the names are the WORST part. Science fiction tends to have that problem, and movies about mythology have a lot of the same tendencies, unless of course you follow mythology and already know the names (hence the Teeheehee). I loved Clash of the Titans by the way.
I can pronounce Iliad just fine, but I just find it humorous that they'd probably rename it if they made a big studio production out of the thing.
And DeCaprio is pretty decent. Gangs of New York, W.E. Gilbert Grape, and more recently Blood Diamond, all feature excellent performances.
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I would hardly consider Transformers to be simply "anime adapted to live action". It's been toys, comic books, and a cartoon. The original cartoon was even written and recorded in America first, with animation studios in Japan and South Korea.
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DAMN! So much anime adapted into movie. Why? Why now? It can never go well.
Lets see...
Transformers
Speed Racer
Cowboy Bebop (damn you Keanu Reeves!)
Dragon Ball
Robotech (yeah just herd about it)
Full Metal Panic
Leonardo DiCaprio wants to do Ninja Scroll which he has rights to now
repeated claims of the Evangelion movie
Astro boy might be good since it's not live action
http://astroboy-themovie.com/
and Ghost in the Shell ;) I actually think that the live-action movie might actually be good.
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Yeah, if Leo is actually a fan and is willing to make a movie based on the manga (I assume since he wants to make multiple?), that's cool...I mean, the movie was a great adaptation (& beautifully made), but in the end, that's what it was, an adaptation. Akira's on such a higher level that no matter what live-action craps out, for good or ill, it's name won't be fouled.
Oh yeah, as for the topic, I'm not familiar with the manga so I can't be disappointed by a live-action movie being made.
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I don't like Spielberg, so my hopes are already down for it. People give him so much credit for things like ET, but I thought the movies weren't all that great. If he is good he must be wasting his talent on bad movies. And I never said anything about DiCaprio being bad, I just think he is kinda a douche. He only does movies that are suppose to have this lesson behind them. Why can't actors just do something entertaining. Not something in the fad of today's teens, just something fun or cool.
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The Beach was pretty fun and cool from what I remember...I want to run in those fields, dammit! lol
I also doubt there's a weighty message to Catch Me If You Can (but I never saw it)...
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I would hardly consider Transformers to be simply "anime adapted to live action". It's been toys, comic books, and a cartoon. The original cartoon was even written and recorded in America first, with animation studios in Japan and South Korea.
Transformers are more like GI Joe than like anime, as far as origins are concerned. Hasbro toys came first.
(You could say Centurions were the lovechild of the afformentioned, except I don't think they had toys first.)
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I can pronounce Iliad just fine, but I just find it humorous that they'd probably rename it if they made a big studio production out of the thing.
Well, they did. And they called it Troy.
But I was thinking more small budget. Maybe even keep the ancient Greek with subtitles, or at least use Lattimore's translation as a foundation. Contrary to what might be thought, such recreations can be good. For example, take this, a staging of an ancient play by Aeschylus (my favourite Tragedian), of his tragedy Agamemnon. Absolutely top notch, and by no means irrelivant or boring.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqFgCGuBn4A&feature=PlayList&p=4A606964367287EA&index=0&playnext=1
The translation's not perfect, but they knew what they were doing, and went for a good adaption. That's the sorta thing that's possible in the arts.
Anyway, the Iliad can have a similar small budget production. I would especially like to see armour after the fashion of Peter Connolly's drawings, with horns on their helmets and all that sorta thing. But I suppose any studio might get edgy when you begin what is apparently in medias res and end long before the fall of Ilion itself.
Bah.
I guess I should be happy that the Classics aren't ignored. We have things like Rome; we have Gladiator. Heck, we even have a remake of Clash of the Titans on the way. Won't be much like the myths, but I hope it's a good movie all the same. Still, just like those of you who here have this wish to see a more exacting retelling of their beloved anime, I do sometimes desire for a precise retelling of the Iliad. Not because it's cool, not because I like the characters or anything like that, but because the construction of plot and all is so powerful and subtle (only look at the cycles through which the plot runs! The foreshadowing and how, though Ilion itself never falls, it is essentially contained within the death of Hektor.) The Iliad is the work of an absolute master. This is not primitive or primordeal story, some raw and rough war epic of an archaic age. It is thoughtful and subtle, beautiful and human. For those of you who have seen Troy, think about the best and most touching parts in that (say, the embassy of Priam to Akhilleus). Now take that as a continual resonance within the story. Take that embassy and make it three and four times as good. Not to have Akhilleus yield because of Priam's courage, but because Akhilleus feels the common sorrow of loss that afflicts humanity, and the two of them weep together, one for a lost friend, the other for a son. As the one her Glaukos says, hailing the enemy hero Diomedes on the field: like leaves are the generations of men. That is the the sort of thing, the sort of deep philosophical thought that pervades the Iliad.
But as yet, no film has even assayed to capture that. Troy caught a glimpse of it, and what it did, I think it did well enough for its purposes. But it could be better, I think.
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If they got a good budget and were given multiple movies then I would suggest they do Gundam now. But no one will take it seriously until someone pulls a great one off before it.
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Yeah, with the current CGI you'd think there'd have been a badass live-action mecha movie already...Instead we just got a bleh Transformers movie that's mostly about a bunch of loser kids (who don't transform into anything but SUCK!)...
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Yeah, with the current CGI you'd think there'd have been a badass live-action mecha movie already...Instead we just got a bleh Transformers movie that's mostly about a bunch of loser kids (who don't transform into anything but SUCK!)...
Lol, I know what you mean. Especially after all the wonderful graphics of things like FFXIII, but StarTrek looks nice, but I never liked western sci-fi, or horror for that matter. And like I said anime needs to first be taken seriously first. I don't like Ghost in Shell but maybe since Spielburg is doing it, it could be taken seriously and Bandai might get the hint.
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I can pronounce Iliad just fine, but I just find it humorous that they'd probably rename it if they made a big studio production out of the thing.
Well, they did. And they called it Troy.
I think it did well enough for its purposes. But it could be better, I think.
Two very good points. And Clash of the Titans is still one of my all time favorites, I had not heard of the remake but thought they should do it ever since the first Jurassic Park came out.