Chrono Compendium
Enhasa Halls - Chrono Series Analysis => Characters, Plot, and Themes => Topic started by: Riv on March 06, 2006, 03:40:06 pm
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So I had this question pop in my brain after completing Chrono Trigger on the PSX. I noted that in the FMV ending sequence, that Frog has regained his appearance as Glenn. However in the endings for Chrono Trigger on SNES this was completely dependent on whether or not you vanquished Magus.
However, I also know that Square likely didn't want to make two different FMVs, one featuring Glenn and one featuring Frog, and therefore opted for one scene regardless of what you do to Magus.
However, final verdict in the Chronoverse: Does Frog still manage to regain his humanity even if Magus is allowed to live? Magus doesn't seem to give a damn enough to reverse the curse on Frog, although I will admit in the Radical Dreamers universe he seems to have gained a bit more in the way of manners (and possibly in general, however we never see him in Chrono Cross, so we can't tell if Magus has undergone a change via his travels with Crono and the others).
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Whatever the outcome, Magus does not die in the process.
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Well, since it seems that Magus returns to 12,000 BC, and probably spends the rest of his days there, then he'd technically be dead by the time Frog returns to 600 AD, and the spell would break via a loophole.
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Magus turned Glenn into Frog in order to prevent another loser hero from intervening, but seeing as Frog helped Magus defeat Lavos there is no need for him to keep the curse...
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True, but Magus seems very much a "what's done is done" type of character, although his attitude in Radical Dreamers does show he considers Glenn neither his enemy but not a friend either.
Although Radical Dreamers didn't exactly take place in the Chronoverse, one must wonder if Magus' personality in RD is similar to the changes his personality may have taken later on.
Moreover is there any possibility or any way Glenn could break free of such a spell without Magus' death?
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AuraTwilight answered, no need to even think about RD. Glenn lives in 600 A.D., Magus has died 13 centuries ago, Magus dead = no curse on Glenn.
...as long as one of the 2 doesn't timetravel again after CT (and they don't as far as we know).
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AuraTwilight answered, no need to even think about RD. Glenn lives in 600 A.D., Magus has died 13 centuries ago, Magus dead = no curse on Glenn.
...as long as one of the 2 doesn't timetravel again after CT (and they don't as far as we know).
I think historically (following that theory where everyone has a part of them saved in their timeline where they're form [a reason why the Ayla grandfather thingy paradox is null], so that their time travelling absence doesn't mean that their descendants aren't born), The timestream would probably remember Magus in both 13,000 and 600AD. That's the annoying thing though. Though, Magus may be classed as "out side of time" and may never die in the timeline, but simply age as he moves around.
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Zaper, that's stupid -_- Magus is an ordinary time traveler. When he left 600 AD, the universe doesn't act like he's still there. Infact, his dissapearance from 600 AD is what causes the humans to think he was defeated. The universe knows he goes to 12,000 BC and dies there.
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Zaper, that's stupid -_- Magus is an ordinary time traveler. When he left 600 AD, the universe doesn't act like he's still there. Infact, his dissapearance from 600 AD is what causes the humans to think he was defeated. The universe knows he goes to 12,000 BC and dies there.
I'm pretty sure theres some theory that mucks that up.
Especially the point that Magus isn't in 12,000BC since he's watching over Kid and somehow has a part in her life, or atleast is looking for Schala.
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I'm pretty sure theres some theory that mucks that up.
Especially the point that Magus isn't in 12,000BC since he's watching over Kid and somehow has a part in her life, or atleast is looking for Schala.
Which we have no idea is true or not. All that is speculation and possibilities. Magus' future is naught but speculation and possibilities.
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Hmmm....Ever since the PSX release came out, it's definitely a debatable thing on what may have happened regarding Frog/Glenn....Since the point of the SNES version has already been said, I won't go any further regarding that part.
Now I'm sure that most of us are aware that Guile was originally intended to be Magus in disguise in the events of CC. So Square was definitely intending (well, at first) to keep Magus alive after all the events of CT. Of course, we know what happened with the Guile part. Now in Lucca's letter to Kid, we know of the "Hello Janus" part.
I see this as one of two possibilities. This was originally scripted in CC during the whole "Guile is Magus" point in developing the game and that part was overlooked in the final review before SE released the game to anyone. And of course, we know in the past, plenty of games have had either script and/or translation goofs for one reason or another so that's why I leave this thought open.
The other possibility (as has been reviewed on here) is that Magus did at one point travel to 1000 AD (or maybe somewhere inbetween 1000-1010 AD) because he learned of Kid's existence (maybe even through Lucca). The possibility that Frog maybe traveled to this era again at one point or another or he may have left some kind of letter/item that may have benefited Magus (possibly due to that he knew Magus would be back to that era or maybe even the Middle Ages). This may have left an impact on Magus to where he may make amends with Frog and change him back to a human.
Getting back to Square's intention of Magus, maybe they didn't intend on leaving Magus alive for some reason. As we all know, Magus was an optional character to have in CT, so that could maybe have something to do with why they hacked the "Guile is Magus" part of CC. And of course, note that in the PSX version of CT, Magus does not have any kind of FMV ending but that of course could also be due to Magus being an optional character in the first place.
But of course, as stated, maybe Square was just too damn lazy to make a separate FMV for Frog. :D
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Maybe it's just another plot hole.
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Or maybe Lucca assumed Magus could time travel willy-nilly without ACTUALLY knowing.
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Or maybe Lucca assumed Magus could time travel willy-nilly without ACTUALLY knowing.
Except that really goes against the type of character Lucca is. She doesn't do or say things unrationally.
Also, RD's Lucca knew about Lynx and what he wanted, and he told her several times to tell her, so finally he had her killed. I assume that Lucca also knew about Lynx and they collaborated, but Lucca then lost her chance and Lynx decided to abduct her.
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Except that really goes against the type of character Lucca is. She doesn't do or say things unrationally.
She does make guesses and assumptions, though.
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Snake, a plot hole is NOT an excuse. Don't answer questions like that here.
Now, I'd like to think that even if Magus calls the other members of the team weaklings, cockroaches and all other words that could point to inferiority, he has more respect for them than he lets on: They've proven him that his wish could come true. A dead man, even one killed by Lavos, can be returned. To Magus, finding Schala means everything, just as defeating Lavos once did. He would return Glenn to human as a way of saying: 'Fine, fine... No point in making you suffer anymore, is there?' but he would also do this out of a certain emotion of gratitude, perhaps even comradeship?
You gotta remember Magus isn't void of emotion.
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You know after having a horrible incident in your childhood like the one Janus had, you probably have permanant psychological and emotional damage... Especially if you get trained by Ozzie... that is pretty bad. But deep within Magus, that little troubled emotional boy named Janus exists. And by helping destroy the horrible monster that forever ruined his childhood, maybe just maybe the little boy Janus was once again released. Magus may have said nothing at the ending when he leaves, because he simply does not have the words to express gratitude. It is a feeling that has not been used by him since childhood.
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Oh, he would never thank them verbally. That's below his honor-Magus still has his giant ego, worthy companions or not. He'd still call them weaklings, he'd just believe otherwise.
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Also, RD's Lucca knew about Lynx and what he wanted, and he told her several times to tell her, so finally he had her killed. I assume that Lucca also knew about Lynx and they collaborated, but Lucca then lost her chance and Lynx decided to abduct her.
and RD's Lynx is an alien from space. What the hell is your point?
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Also, RD's Lucca knew about Lynx and what he wanted, and he told her several times to tell her, so finally he had her killed. I assume that Lucca also knew about Lynx and they collaborated, but Lucca then lost her chance and Lynx decided to abduct her.
and RD's Lynx is an alien from space. What the hell is your point?
That's in a totally non-canon like scenario tho.
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and RD is a totally non-canon side story.
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and RD is a totally non-canon side story.
Not from CT itself in totally.
But the plot is very similar to CC. I wouldn't take it for granted that Lucca and Lynx cooberated for a time, and Lynx told her to tell him, but finally he kidnapped her.
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RD's main scenario is not completely non-canon. It has some decent basis.
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Fanfictions also have credible basis in their source material. Doesn't mean squat. CC was made, contradicting and nullifying RD, which was too open-ended and riddled with plotholes to be satisfactory.