We need some time to pick out the innocent threads of Kajar Laboratories. Eventually, that forum will be restored, minus ROM stuff.Right, but Justin's Schala Project won't be restored, as it was a ROM hack. So, I'll be leaving in any case. As I said, that was the main reason I was here--hell, the only reason I was here.
I now have more disgust for Square Enix than I ever, ever did for the RIAA. Kajar Labs was always such a treat to browse, even though I never got to be involved with any projects. Honestly, it evoked a deep sense of child-like wonder. I never imagined it would end this way, at least not all of it. This is a very sad day.
Consider them boycotted. I'll never buy another SE title.
They did what they had to do, yet through destruction and death spawns construction and life. Please keep this in mind...
We understand that you claim a copyright to CT:CE...
Magus22, weren't you arguably the first one to propose Dalton at the Fall of Guardia too? Years before CT:DS came out?
...Anything you're not telling us?
Maybe now you guys can focus on doing something truly productive, as opposed to wasting your time working on extremely time-consuming fangames using other people's copyrighted material.Wow...uh...just wow. I think a fuck you is in order but will that truly be enough?
Maybe now you guys can focus on doing something truly productive, as opposed to wasting your time working on extremely time-consuming fangames using other people's copyrighted material.
Maybe now you guys can focus on doing something truly productive, as opposed to wasting your time working on extremely time-consuming fangames using other people's copyrighted material.
Maybe now you guys can focus on doing something truly productive, as opposed to wasting your time working on extremely time-consuming fangames using other people's copyrighted material.
I want to beat them at their own game. I want to make a game that blows them out of the WATER for what they've done. A game designed to SINK THEM. And you know what? If people make fangames of my stuff, I'll be FLATTERED, and I'll be sending them congratulatory emails instead of snotty C&Ds. Bastards. Unbelievable, sickening, arrogant, BASTARDS.
Why boycott and punish ourselves. Pirate the shit out of everything they release.
(3) Computer programs and video games distributed in formats that have become obsolete and which require the original media or hardware as a condition of access. A format shall be considered obsolete if the machine or system necessary to render perceptible a work stored in that format is no longer manufactured or is no longer reasonably available in the commercial marketplace.
Why boycott and punish ourselves. Pirate the shit out of everything they release.
That's not an appropriate comment to be making, especially at a time like this, and it is not representative of the Compendium's official policy.
Two notes A) a C&D is not legal action just a warning of possible future action(in this case May 13th 2009) still its best to be smart and comply when its completely in there right.
But one thing just caught my eye, they say we must remove Temporal Flux. Under the reasoning that it is in violation of Digital Millennium Copyright Act (http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap12.html#1201). The act pretty much is about anything reproduces, alters, or replicates a game, program, or app is not legal and so forth with bigger words. This was done in 1998, then in 2000, 2003, and 2006 several exception to that rule were made. Namely:Quote from: Section 1201(a)(1) title 17, exemptions(3) Computer programs and video games distributed in formats that have become obsolete and which require the original media or hardware as a condition of access. A format shall be considered obsolete if the machine or system necessary to render perceptible a work stored in that format is no longer manufactured or is no longer reasonably available in the commercial marketplace.
Just saying I haven't seen a SNES on shelves in long time...
We have already destroyed all known copies of Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes and other modifications and projects.Suuure you have. :wink:
QuoteWe have already destroyed all known copies of Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes and other modifications and projects.Suuure you have. :wink:
I guess, but... I don't know. If I worked on something for this many years, I would at least keep a personal copy for myself. I imagine at least one of them have done the same. Why destroy something they worked on for so long? Of course, for legal purposes I wouldn't expect anyone to admit it or let anyone else get a hold of their copy.
I just want to believe it still exists in some form. Just let me dream.
I completely agree that this isn't something to go to court over. But as they did send an letter, it is perfectly reasonable for Z to reply back with maybe some sort of counter offer. I personally haven't heard of anyone in this situation doing that before and unlike court this isn't costly. Either we're in the same boat or better.Stuff...
Wouldn't that kind of exemption apply more to something like an emulator than to a much more hack-oriented program like Temporal Flux? I agree with you that these kinds of references are often only subjected to the narrowest logical justification by the part of the corporate legal team--many of them would be legitimately contestable, but we lose anyway by going to court in the first place (unless you're bankrolling the lawyers). The corporate C&D tactic relies on people like us getting scared and clamming up, and making more concessions than are being demanded of us. However, in this case, there's no profit to be had from picking that particular battle, and I don't see how we could separate TF from ROM hacking in general.
Yeah, I think there should be a "shrine page" dedicated to Crimson Echoes. Post an assload of screenies, post a plot summary, and the official "C&D Letter". At least let the world know it existed.
I'm very sad too... but I have an idea... why don't you guys release CE not as a Chrono game, but like something else... edit the characters, a little of their history, just enough to not disturb SE, and still, the very people (like me and everyone else posting here on compendium) would play the game knowing that the game would be THAT game. That's my sugestion.Cronosaga? Unlikely.
Cronosaga? Unlikely.
But if somebody WERE to do that...
Kro, Meryl, Toad, Lidya, Mage, Robot, Alia
Would be completely appropriate, non-copywritten names.
It's a hack of Chrono Trigger...more than just names and story references would have to be changed/scrapped, starting with IT COULDN'T BE A HACK OF CHRONO TRIGGER!I agree with you, V! :lol: But do note that SOMETHING'S better than nothing. Crimson Echoes was supposed to be a full fledged extensive romhack.
On May 8, we received a wide-reaching cease and desist letter from Square Enix, Inc. As with Chrono Trigger: Resurrection and Chrono Trigger Remake Project's letters, we have uploaded the letter for viewing here (http://www.chronocompendium.com/CEOrder.PDF) as a matter of public interest.I jus reg wit this site n wanna say this:
We have decided to comply with Square Enix's demands. Most of the Chrono Compendium webpages and forums will be unaffected by these changes. However, our compliance has the practical effect of ending the Compendium's support for ROM modification projects of any kind, with regard to copyrighted Square Enix works such as Chrono Trigger, Radical Dreamers, and Chrono Cross. We have already destroyed all known copies of Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes (http://crimsonechoes.com/) and other modifications and projects. We have also shut down and made inaccessible any discussion boards used for the development of ROM-hacking fan projects on this website, including:
* Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes
* Chrono Trigger: Prophet's Guile
* Retranslation of Chrono Trigger
* Chrono Trigger Re-amped
* Chrono Trigger Rebirth
* Chrono Trigger Azala Style
Affected parties may contact the administration in private if there is any personal information they wish to retrieve from the deprecated forums.
We do not accept the validity of Square Enix's claims, nor the legal rationale underpinning their position. Nonetheless, we are complying with their demands so as to avoid the expenses and burdens of litigation, because, frankly, they can afford a frivolous lawsuit more than we can.
We thank all those who have been involved in the affected projects for their spirited energy over the years, and we look forward to the day when non-profit, fan-made projects will be properly recognized as a fan-base boon and marketing opportunity tool, rather than silenced as innocent victims of prohibitively interpreted copyright law.
Sincerely,
ZeaLitY and the Chrono Compendium Staff
I thought this tribute might be in order... or something along those lines...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvGK4c5uBL0&feature=channel_page
I saw it coming too. >__<;;There would have to deal with damage done. The thing about a ROM hack as opposed to say a full game is that is MUCH harder to round up an remove once its out in the sea of the internet. Although the Compendium can't not deal in this anymore out of risk of legal action that wouldn't end in our favor.
I'm curious about one thing though... What would have happened if CE had been released and THEN Square found out and wanted to sue... .___.; Cause I mean... they could do that, I'm sure.
Your fucking kidding me right? GOD DAMN SE ALWAYS GOTTA FUCK THE GOOD SHIT UP! Although... with Kajar Labratories down, we the people, who still have our hands on Temporal Flux, can still hack on a private non-public release basis right? If there is still 1 beta copy of CE, it can be distributed without it being known as a public release, send it via PM/email/IM etc. Then from there, the ones whom have TF can make minor changes to the rom, and call it their own.Please if anything talk like that does NOTHING to help the Compendiums image, the fact they sent the C&D, it is perfectly reasonably to say they are reading the forums. Be careful with what you say.
just a suggestion....
i have now lost all respect i had ever had for SE...
It seems the Readme file claiming the you acknowledge infringement was the kicker.
I saw it coming too. >__<;;There would have to deal with damage done. The thing about a ROM hack as opposed to say a full game is that is MUCH harder to round up an remove once its out in the sea of the internet. Although the Compendium can't not deal in this anymore out of risk of legal action that wouldn't end in our favor.
I'm curious about one thing though... What would have happened if CE had been released and THEN Square found out and wanted to sue... .___.; Cause I mean... they could do that, I'm sure.
I don't personally know if someone had recorded a play-through before that happened. If they did, I'm sure it will come out eventually.
Personally, I think that by knocking CE out, it means that a new game is coming our way. Why would they go through the trouble of C&Ding the game when there'll be no new one? I mean, if there's no new game, new tools will be made (or we'll use tools we still have), new games will be made... the cycle continues.
Though here's a question.
Given that CE and half our stuff has been removed from the site (and may never see the light of day again) how're Chrono Ark and Crisis doing? Have they been C&D'd as well?
I support the idea of a group. We say what we claim, what we don't claim, comply to removal of CE, but all of Kajar? Not all of Kajar is ROM hacking! And TF... so long as we state that the stuff isn't ours and we have no claims to it (nor do we wish to have people to pay for it) I think it's cool. There was an article here somewhere about how NOT to get a new game. Can't find it.
A letter-writing campaign is pointless. Square Enix's legal department doesn't care. They are intensely focused on their narrow duties, and just don't give a fuck about anything else. Never underestimate the ability of a group of lawyers to miss the forest for the trees that may or may not be in it. If you really want to write to SE, don't bother writing to their legal department.
CT is hardly the only game out there that's been subject to retranslation, modification, hacks etc... SE are the only ones I've heard of that are actually such dickheads that they'll try and quash such projects.
The worst part is that I doubt they even have any plans for any CT remakes, sequels or side-stories. Probably based on the logic of 'well, what if we want to make a sequel 10 years down the road...'
Someone mentioned trying to re-weave the story into a new game with different characters / sprites etc. While I doubt that would be something the development team would consider any time soon, I hope they don't discard the idea completely. It would be a total shame to see so much thought and originality (storyline etc) go to waste, and fan fiction / art just wouldn't do it justice.
If you guys really want something to do, just post news of the C&D around at other Square forums, game sites, etc., even like OCRemix's community forum. Let people know this has happened. Quote www.crimsonechoes.com and let them know this is probably the first 8-bit or 16-bit ROM hack to get this kind of treatment.I agree. Getting the word out is pretty much the only reasonable thing worth doing right now.
...download and illegal for the win .
Sad thing is it's not just them either. I wonder, is there ANY company that'd allow for stuff anymore? Sega's all I know of(namely Sonic Team, but c'mon, Sonic's in the corner).
Really now that's interesting.Sad thing is it's not just them either. I wonder, is there ANY company that'd allow for stuff anymore? Sega's all I know of(namely Sonic Team, but c'mon, Sonic's in the corner).
As said earlier in this thread, Vivendi Games allowed a team to make a King's Quest fan sequel after initially sending them a C&D letter. The team and their fans had somehow managed to negociate a "fan licence".
Sad thing is it's not just them either. I wonder, is there ANY company that'd allow for stuff anymore? Sega's all I know of(namely Sonic Team, but c'mon, Sonic's in the corner).
As said earlier in this thread, Vivendi Games allowed a team to make a King's Quest fan sequel after initially sending them a C&D letter. The team and their fans had somehow managed to negociate a "fan licence".
Maybe you guys can do something similar? Write SE back and try to make a compromise, just like AGDI did? AGDI and Zophar both prove that you can fight the big guys and win. I have hope!!!The problem is that if we assume that the CE team was honest (and we can assume that they were) they have truly destroyed every copy of CE, unless they accidentally missed something. So even if SE's mind could be changed, it would be useless because everything is lost.
Everyone, keep in mind that SE is likely reading this very thread, so careful with pirate talk, me mateys. The Compendium's official policy always has been, and always will be, to promote purchasing Chrono franchise products.
Oops, it wasn't in this thread actually. Can't remember offhand where it was. Anyway, I was talking about this game:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Silver_Lining_(game)
Is Quest for Glory II another case?
Oops, it wasn't in this thread actually. Can't remember offhand where it was. Anyway, I was talking about this game:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Silver_Lining_(game)
Is Quest for Glory II another case?
Yep it was. Vivendi sent them a C&D about two months before they released the remake, just like what happened to you guys. However, the AGDI guys never gave up, and actually contacted and got thru to Vivendi in responce to this C&D. I'm scouring their forums right now for the post about their legal battle, but it never got to the courts. They just managed to talk them into a compromise.
And I really hope not all the material was destroyed..... Not before it was fought!
Ok, I just want to understand something. You people know what SE does to chrono trigger fan projects. You have known that for 5 years.
Why in god's name are you making preview videos, screenshots, release dates or even telling the world you're making a fan game? That's like telling everyone you're about to kill someone and yelling "Catch me if you can!!!". It was not smart and you brought it upon yourselves.
You all know how copyright works in your amerikkka, don't be a retard and do it right next time.
/rant
They did it to allow SE the chance to do just what they did, so that they would not release what they had done and get into manifold more trouble after the fact.SE wouldn't have done anything worse. They'd C&D and tell them to stop distrubuting the game. How many times has youtube been sued for copyright infringement? How many times has youtube simply taken down copyright-infringing videos and things stopped at that?
A “derivative work” is a work based upon one or more preexisting works, such as a translation, musical arrangement, dramatization, fictionalization, motion picture version, sound recording, art reproduction, abridgment, condensation, or any other form in which a work may be recast, transformed, or adapted. A work consisting of editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other modifications which, as a whole, represent an original work of authorship, is a “derivative work”.That information is from this page (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/101.html).
Just throwing this out there, but I am almost 99% sure that in the United States, under federal law, it is legal to distribute rom modifications in the form of IPS patches, which do not include any of the original copyrighted material.
I thought this tribute might be in order... or something along those lines...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvGK4c5uBL0&feature=channel_page
Heh, well speak of the devil... Much sadder than I had envisioned though, but that's the music for ya.
Right. kuromadoshi's quote about federal law and IPS patches is what got me thinking of derivative works. Ultimately it's up to the court to decide, I believe.QuoteJust throwing this out there, but I am almost 99% sure that in the United States, under federal law, it is legal to distribute rom modifications in the form of IPS patches, which do not include any of the original copyrighted material.
I remember read this stuff somewhere, too.
My god... this is perhaps the worst news I can wake up to.
From what I've seen of the game, it was amazing. Everything about it... awesome. Fare thee well, Crimson Echoes. Fare thee well, all our ROM hacking shit. Fare thee well, the work of millions. Thanks so much to Square for crushing our dreams.
But hey, look on the bright side. Maybe they'll see that we're such a thriving community that they would make a new game to appease us. Yeah! Maybe it'll be bigger, better, and more awesome!
... maybe we ninja'd their idea and that's why we got C&E'd.
Yeah, I imagine we'll have to play that question by ear justin.I'll try and read up on it, but since we're pressed on time, I suggest that everyone truly committed to CE to read up on it as well. I'll post more information as I get it.
mav, the "derivative work" argument is interesting. Technically, CE is "a transformation" of the original work in question. It would seem to fall under "other modifications" in the language you cited.
My god... this is perhaps the worst news I can wake up to.
From what I've seen of the game, it was amazing. Everything about it... awesome. Fare thee well, Crimson Echoes. Fare thee well, all our ROM hacking shit. Fare thee well, the work of millions. Thanks so much to Square for crushing our dreams.
But hey, look on the bright side. Maybe they'll see that we're such a thriving community that they would make a new game to appease us. Yeah! Maybe it'll be bigger, better, and more awesome!
... maybe we ninja'd their idea and that's why we got C&E'd.
Just to make things clear: There was this fanproject, CT: Ressurection.
They received a C&D letter.
We got a CT port with two more dungeons. I don't think this is such a "bigger, better and more awesome" thing.
People have submitted these:If any one has a Fark (http://www.fark.com/)account that would be even better! I could see about signing up there, I there lurk everyday anyways.
http://digg.com/gaming_news/Square_Enix_Sends_C_D_Order_to_Popular_Chrono_Trigger_Site
http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/8je53/98_complete_chrono_trigger_fan_sequel_rom_mod/
Some material prepared in connection with a game may be subject to copyright if it contains a sufficient amount of literary or pictorial expression. For example, the text matter describing the rules of the game, or the pictorial matter appearing on the gameboard or container, may be registrable.
Have they always known about this? Or did they just recently get wind of the project.That is (one of) the million dollar questions. We only know for sure that SE knew about it last week, because that's when they began Internet stalking ZeaLitY.
I wasn't talking about Ressurection, it was just an example :picardno
There were fanprojects before, that got A LOT of work of the fanbase of CT, for example the Ressurection.
SE noticed that, and sent a C&D. Some people may have got their hopes up, and CT:DS came out. But, let's admit, CT:DS is just a port with DBT and some spin-off dungeons. That isn't enough. The fanbase deserves more than this, don't you think?
C&D is just a way to say "Hey, you idiots! Stop doing that and give us your money, because we don't care about what you think! Buy our games and STFU!"
I personally never bought a SE game. And never will. This isn't the "ChronoCompendium" way, but that just shows that I was right in not wasting my money on a company that doesn't respect the fans.
being this close to completion you know it's going to float onto the internet inconspicuously somewhere, and what can they do? Chrono Compendium does not condone it, forbids it, and denies it's existence. It'll come. The problem with SE was how much attention this was getting and that it had it's own website etc. You don't see them going after other fan hacks, it's just when one rises so high in popularity they have to have some sort of reaction or they'll get walked all over. Never-the-less I'm sure eventually we will see CE in some informal capacity.
Like FaustWolf said, it's educational to research this stuff. But I don't want people to get any false hope out of this kind of discussion. We're a bunch of kids and twenty-somethings looking up legal trivia on the Internet. Most of us have no clue how to correctly interpret legal language. We have no organization and limited research capabilities. On their side, Square Enix has an entire phalanx of experienced lawyers who have dealt with exactly this kind of issue many times before. They have most of the legal precedents working on their side, and boatloads of cash. We're outgunned fifty to one and we don't even have the money to play in the first place.Exactly--this is why I didn't want to reply to begin with. We get so caught up in what we perceive as right or wrong that we lose site of reality. The fact is that this is a very hard fight, and we really have no one to fight it. "We" aren't even an entity: we are just a bunch of people meeting on a forum, we have no legal knowledge, we have no lawyer, and we're too emotional to think rationally. All we can do is whip up fancy legal terms and hope someone is suicidal enough to wanna represent us. It's not like Square gonna come after all of us for a legal battle: they're gonna go after the higher-ups on the Crimson Echoes team and the higher-ups on this board and prosecute and persecute the fuck out of them. And frankly, that isn't fair. Furthermore, all this legal nonsense we're using to defend ourselves will only really help us in a court case, and I doubt it'll come down to that.
Maybe SE can learn a bit from Capcom. and let their fans enjoy some of this things.I'm out of the loop it seems. What does this refer to exactly? :?
This caught my attention. (Boy, I'm gone for ONE night, and this thread's flooded!)Sad thing is it's not just them either. I wonder, is there ANY company that'd allow for stuff anymore? Sega's all I know of(namely Sonic Team, but c'mon, Sonic's in the corner).
As said earlier in this thread, Vivendi Games allowed a team to make a King's Quest fan sequel after initially sending them a C&D letter. The team and their fans had somehow managed to negociate a "fan licence".
Quote from: Lord JI don't personally know if someone had recorded a play-through before that happened. If they did, I'm sure it will come out eventually.
We have hours of footage that could probably be strung together into a complete or nearly complete playthrough video series. I think that'll be the final option if the situation remains as-is. For now, everyone hold off on sending a barrage of letters until the core CE team has had time to mull everything over.
MasaMuneCyrus, do you happen to have a link describing any kind of actual litigation between Zophar's Domain and Nintendo? The precedent may prove useful somehow.
Oops, it wasn't in this thread actually. Can't remember offhand where it was. Anyway, I was talking about this game:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Silver_Lining_(game)
Is Quest for Glory II another case?
Yep it was. Vivendi sent them a C&D about two months before they released the remake, just like what happened to you guys. However, the AGDI guys never gave up, and actually contacted and got thru to Vivendi in responce to this C&D. I'm scouring their forums right now for the post about their legal battle, but it never got to the courts. They just managed to talk them into a compromise.
And I really hope not all the material was destroyed..... Not before it was fought!
The problem with that is Vivendi is western based. To reach SE we would have to go through Square-Enix NA and they are useless really.
More importantly we should be sending this to video game news sites everywhere. If can get recognition from sites like 1up, Kotaku, Destructoid, joystick, ign, or gamespot then we reach a mass audience and raise more recognition for the series on an extremely wide scale. Next we hit SE at their own website, with links to all those sites with their news stories, little or nothing but perhaps the big wigs will get the picture.QuoteSome material prepared in connection with a game may be subject to copyright if it contains a sufficient amount of literary or pictorial expression. For example, the text matter describing the rules of the game, or the pictorial matter appearing on the gameboard or container, may be registrable.
This sounds like it include same characters and their sprites. And it said nothing of using the same characters, it only mentioned similar being ok.
I almost cried.......
this shit ruined my day..... no it ruined the last few years for me...
I knew this shit would happen, the youtube videos, then the website... oh and don't forget the banners and wallpapers..... (this part?) .... yeah this has to be the worst day ever...
The team planned to release Crimson Echoes on May 31, 2009 as the first feature-length fan Chrono series game
If this is real (and I have doubts), Square Enix is wrong. Nothing Temporal Flux does or the hacks it can create are illegal under the law. SE can't even claim "copy protection" as the ROM file is on the Chrono Trigger PSX release which is just a regular old CD, nevermind that the courts have repeatedly determined media format alone to not be equivalent to "protection".I've been saying this! Companies put every threat they can in a C&D letter hoping that we will stop everything, after all C&D letters aren't actual legal documents.
At any rate, since it looks like the Compendium won't be doing anything at all with ROM hacks in the future, and that was my sum total involvement here, I'll be signing off. Any future posts will be at other ROM hacking sites. Even if they shut down those too, I'll continue to work on Temporal Flux for my own personal use.
Sayonara.
*sigh* What happens now? Where do we go? I feel like the Fellowship is broken, and we're all going our separate games.
Anyhow, a spiritual successor isn't a bad idea.
Hey, no stealing my ideas! I've been working on a Chrono Trigger D&D 4ed campaign since last summer! I've already got 1000 A.D. done and everything! :PAnyhow, a spiritual successor isn't a bad idea.
Crimson Echoes: The Table-top Roleplaying Game!
IDEA!:picardno :picardno :picardno :fuk
If the S&D gave a 10-day period to decide what the compendium will do (like CT: Ressurection) (yes, the C&D for Ressurection is on the net) then the rom can still be distributed before the end of the 10-day period correct?also, if your being IP tracked, get some people who have proxies, and submit the rom to them for even distribution to the public.
remember, this is just an idea
What if... all evidence of CE was wiped from the compendium, there is still at least 1 copy of CE helb by someone, rename the game, change sprites, and names... then release the new game... from a different source tho...Doable, though one of the following would have to be the case as well:
kinda working off of Dark Serge's post.
Ready the pitchforks, ladies and gentlemen.
Regarding the letter though, we should treat it as real until it is proven to be fake.
I have my swallow...European or African?
I have my swallow...European or African?
Nobody really knows at this point besides Square Enix/the hoaxter. But a resolution should be coming up.forget pitch forks..................lets use drills......BIG MASSIVE DRILLS THAT BREAK THE LAWS OF PSYCHICS! GIGA DRILL BREAKER!
Maybe pitchforks will come out either way though.
Ouch if the letter is fake =/
(anyone else recognize the anagram his name turns out to be? (ignoring capital letters))
(anyone else recognize the anagram his name turns out to be? (ignoring capital letters))
What do you mean :O
(anyone else recognize the anagram his name turns out to be? (ignoring capital letters))
What do you mean :O
oh, my bad...
Rearrange it and get Myamoto... which is just 1 letter off from Miyamoto... my bad >.> lol
Hmm so...
1) C&D is real: SE found out about CT:CE and shut it down.
or
2) C&D is fake, made up by an elaborate hoaxer.
If 2 is correct, this guy would be smart enough to know that contacting SE about a C&D letter would only alert them to the presence of something potentially worthy of a C&D. A trap, perhaps?
(anyone else recognize the anagram his name turns out to be? (ignoring capital letters))
What do you mean :O
oh, my bad...
Rearrange it and get Myamoto... which is just 1 letter off from Miyamoto... my bad >.> lol
O______________________O haha well thought XD
Hmm so...Eske, I sooo wanted to post a picture of that fish admiral from Star Wars, but I worried that I'd set off a firestorm because we're all on the edge of our seats right now. In any case, I fully trust Agent12 will contact Square in a non-"catch me if you can" manner.
1) C&D is real: SE found out about CT:CE and shut it down.
or
2) C&D is fake, made up by an elaborate hoaxer.
If 2 is correct, this guy would be smart enough to know that contacting SE about a C&D letter would only alert them to the presence of something potentially worthy of a C&D. A trap, perhaps?
Hmm so...Eske, I sooo wanted to post a picture of that fish admiral from Star Wars, but I worried that I'd set off a firestorm because we're all on the edge of our seats right now. In any case, I fully trust Agent12 will contact Square in a non-"catch me if you can" manner.
1) C&D is real: SE found out about CT:CE and shut it down.
or
2) C&D is fake, made up by an elaborate hoaxer.
If 2 is correct, this guy would be smart enough to know that contacting SE about a C&D letter would only alert them to the presence of something potentially worthy of a C&D. A trap, perhaps?
It would, however, be funny if we called up Square Enix's law office and said, "Hey. I'm hacking your game. Then I received this C&D. Is it real?" Truly surreal humor at its best.
(for anyone who doesnt know, Miyamoto = Maker of the Zelda Games... I think?)
(for anyone who doesnt know, Miyamoto = Maker of the Zelda Games... I think?)
Super Mario actually ;)
Edit : Zelda too, my bad XD
yeah just looked up the wiki... and just now saw you edited lol =D
How do I do that?on the left sidebar next to the forum posts/ web posts you should see the community databases. on the right of the dash is the IRC.
HOW DO I SHOT IRCSee the sidebar? Right next to "Forums", under "Community", there's "IRC". Right-click, choose either "Open in new window" (IE6 and earlier only) or "Open in new tab".
after all, square enix loves their fans very muchSpeaking as someone who enjoys most of SE's games, and plays FFXI, I call BS here. They love the contents of our wallets, but actual communication with the fanbase is rare at best.
*Sigh* I wasn't asking people to get on because of "Big news", the conversation felt very split, with people talking on irc and forum, and off topic, so I felt to direct that off topicness to irc rather than have us keep flooding the topic.no big deal.
my bad.
*Sigh* I wasn't asking people to get on because of "Big news", the conversation felt very split, with people talking on irc and forum, and off topic, so I felt to direct that off topicness to irc rather than have us keep flooding the topic.no big deal.
my bad.
Please be aware that Square Enix is well aware of the fallout of their decision.Yes, but do they care?
BREAKING NEWS
I have it on very good authority that this is NOT a hoax. I repeat: this is NOT a hoax.
Bringing you back to your regularly scheduled programming. Please be aware that Square Enix is well aware of the fallout of their decision.
what do you mean? now were going to try to sick Rick Astley on them?
That is correct.
This video is not available in your country.
I can't see the video.lucky you, rick astley was banned in your country..Quote from: Youtube page that shows insteadThis video is not available in your country.
and plays FFXI
now now, only time will tell.....where Gaspar will release the gates.......the entities will come.and plays FFXI
It's because of people like you that the Chrono team (Square Enix Production Team 2) is working on FFXI and Rapture instead of, possibly, a Chrono game :(
None of them are working on FFXI anymore other than maybe one week every four months.and plays FFXI
It's because of people like you that the Chrono team (Square Enix Production Team 2) is working on FFXI and Rapture instead of, possibly, a Chrono game :(
I wish it had been leaked... Square Enix is an ass.
Lol...An Aladdin rom. Of all the games. On a different note, it feels like we are the angry, indignant ghost children, and Square-Enix is Serge. All their fault!
Lol...An Aladdin rom. Of all the games. On a different note, it feels like we are the angry, indignant ghost children, and Square-Enix is Serge. All their fault!
at first I thought you were referencing me myself, but then I realized the deeper reference to CC. lol
Lol...An Aladdin rom. Of all the games. On a different note, it feels like we are the angry, indignant ghost children, and Square-Enix is Serge. All their fault!
at first I thought you were referencing me myself, but then I realized the deeper reference to CC. lol
well well someones paranoid...HOLD 'EM STILL *Cracks whip* :lol:
Aladdin ROM leaked? Disney and Capcom are coming for us! Run!
Lol...An Aladdin rom. Of all the games. On a different note, it feels like we are the angry, indignant ghost children, and Square-Enix is Serge. All their fault!
at first I thought you were referencing me myself, but then I realized the deeper reference to CC. lol
well well someones paranoid...HOLD 'EM STILL *Cracks whip* :lol:
...something tells me mikey has a strange fetish for whipping me >.>
jk
I know i'm a few days late but- I have SO many inappropriate words for square enix right now. I haven't been on in awhile, I saw a big update thought- YEY CE was realeased, quite the opposite. I just feel so completely down. I can't think of a worse thing that could have happened. I guess I should be thankful the compendium still lives.
But really why do it now? Just before the realease? Guess the gaggle of slobbering lawyers had nothing better to do.
Hey guys been lurking about for years on here from time to time. Real shame about the C&D. Was really looking forward to playing this. CC was ok in it's own right but never felt like a true Chrono game to me. The original CT always held a special place for me since it was the first real RPG I enjoyed. Granted I had played others before then but it was really the first one I actually took the time to finish. I just got a DS and the new CT a few weeks ago since my SNES has bit the dust and the PS1 version is damn near unplayable. I too was hoping that it was a fake but on the flip side this may be for the best. If it was a fake then trying to confirm it with Square could have started a whole new shit storm in the event they had no idea. At least in this case if SE has half an ounce of brain power left then perhaps a deal can be reached to allow the release of CE in some form or another. Perhaps if the right parties can agree to it then maybe you could even sell SE the rights to the game. This would perhaps allow them the chance to clean it up and then make any additions or mods that may be needed for a DS release. It's obvious that a ton of hard work was put into this and I think if SE could get the ok from most of the original CT team then they would stand to make a ton of money for paying you guys for the hard work. What they would offer you would possibly pale compared to the amount of money they could possibly make. I'd easily pay $40 for a DS version of this game. Seriously guys look up what may need to be done and get talking with SE to see if some agreement can be reached that allows the release. It would be a shame to see this much work be wasted.
EDIT-Normally write in orange on various message boards. Guess that color isn't going to work too well here ^_^()[/b]
It would be fantastic if SE did that, man. Unfortunately, I just don't see that happening. There is almost no precedent for this kind of thing happening. I think Valve did it once, but to actually release a physical game of this is way beyond wishful thinking. Don't get me wrong, it is not outside the realm of possibility, but if SE didn't make it themselves, I don't see it happening. I hope I'm incorrect though.
:picardno
Those who ignore history are bound to repeat it: when the same exact thing happened 5 years ago with Chrono Resurrection, me and others noted that this kind of project should be kept secret with no way for the corporation to get you. Anonymous style.
Instead again you've let them see you and got shot like in Duck Hunt. And now we're back at square one. See you in another 5 years for more of the same...
So, all we need to do is raise $150,000 and we get the hack? 8)
So, all we need to do is raise $150,000 and we get the hack? 8)
if there wasn't a possible $150k involved, I might agree. but no. theres money.
Those who ignore history are bound to repeat it: when the same exact thing happened 5 years ago with Chrono Resurrection, me and others noted that this kind of project should be kept secret with no way for the corporation to get you. Anonymous style.
if there wasn't a possible $150k involved, I might agree. but no. theres money.
While I could be wrong, it sounded like that was per instance (once for each proptery infringed upon). Legalese is never clear, but that letter was particularly so, it seemed. As such, it could be $450K, once for CT, once for CC, and once for RD. Or it could be more, if individual components are protected.Those who ignore history are bound to repeat it: when the same exact thing happened 5 years ago with Chrono Resurrection, me and others noted that this kind of project should be kept secret with no way for the corporation to get you. Anonymous style.
Anonymity is a fantasy. What keeps the internet largely anonymous is laziness and lack of resources.
Looks like Nightcrawler had a majority opinion of one person in closing the Personal Projects forum thread, because the C&D feels fake to him.
By the way guys, if you ever actually get a real person's name and contact information confirming the C&D, please let me know. I'm still waiting...Is there anything that can be done to convince him?
All these calls you've made confirming this and you can't provide any actual facts. I have half a mind to ban you from the site for this stunt. It really makes us look bad. We're supposed to be a credible source. Thanks for wasting everybody's time.
if there wasn't a possible $150k involved, I might agree. but no. theres money.
While I could be wrong, it sounded like that was per instance (once for each property infringed upon). Legalese is never clear, but that letter was particularly so, it seemed. As such, it could be $450K, once for CT, once for CC, and once for RD. Or it could be more, if individual components are protected.
Yup, who cares? Making him "look bad" is the least of our problems, really. Most people agree it's true on all the other forums.I guess Nightcrawler will probably look more worse if Square-Enix publicly confirms the C & D than accepting "false" news.
I believe it is 150k per each hack that is considered "one work", not each property.
...
150k is a scare tactic. This hack will not cost SE 150k. Or it might indirectly if people are pissed enough not to buy SE products after this debacle.
Compared to that 3D Remake thingy's C&D, this C&D really, really looks incredibly... fake.
http://www.chillingeffects.org/derivative/notice.cgi?NoticeID=1416 <- Resurrection's.
I mean, seriously. Just compare them. Crimson Echo's C&D doesn't have any lawyer's backing, any substantial copyright information about Chrono Trigger itself... it just cites some sort of valid DMCA laws which can be found *anywhere*, and looks like it comes from a real address, which probably isn't hard to fake.
were on the front page of digg.com
--JP
The fans and members of Kajar Laboratories acknowledge that under
M. Kramer Manufacturing Company, Inc. v. Andrews, 783 F.2d 421 (4th Cir. 1986),
ROM altering and modification is illegal, and the demo has been made without the consent of Square Enix. However, Kajar Laboratories wishes that Square Enix view it as a piece of fanfiction or other fan-related work, falling in the general body of fan community proceedings that are too numerous to prosecute and summarily have a positive effect on the popularity of its games. Should Square Enix perceive the project as a threat to its sales or intellectual property, Kajar Laboratories will immediately cease operation on the project and comply with Square Enix's orders.
Compared to that 3D Remake thingy's C&D, this C&D really, really looks incredibly... fake.
http://www.chillingeffects.org/derivative/notice.cgi?NoticeID=1416 <- Resurrection's.
I mean, seriously. Just compare them. Crimson Echo's C&D doesn't have any lawyer's backing, any substantial copyright information about Chrono Trigger itself... it just cites some sort of valid DMCA laws which can be found *anywhere*, and looks like it comes from a real address, which probably isn't hard to fake.
Most corporate communications are lame, ugly, rife with grammatical errors and structural deficiencies, and sophomorically worded in an attempt to be clever without really having the chops for it.
I think someone needs to leak this story to mainstream media - not just the video game community.
I really don't think mainstream media cares :) as much as I wish they did. I'm pretty sure top 10 on digg.com was the best that we could hope for
anybody thought about submitting the story the Attack of The Show? its a G4TV show that is up-to-date with all gaming and electronic news.
http://forums.g4tv.com/showthread.php?p=2145071#post2145071 for the topic
http://forums.g4tv.com/showthread.php?p=2145071#post2145071 for the topic
Can you put the second trailer that is on crimsonechoes.com, and mention that I'd be willing to answer any questions they might have/want.
--JP
And you just let them get away with BREAKING THE LAW! Let them sue as much as they want, they won't EVER win, as there was NO copyright infringement since it was non-profit, and they will have to compensate you.This actually made me laugh out loud. Well-played, sir.
The question is, is distributing a patch to change a ROM into a derivative work the same as actually distributing the derivative work itself in the eyes of the law?I really doubt it. I imagine patches are legal in the same sense that bongs are legal, you know? Owning X, which is often used in conjunction with the illegal Y, does not make X illegal by association.
I think your example would be Piracy, not Copyright Infringement.
Can anyone update me on whether or not the CE team is getting in contact with Square?
...I've just watched the trailer. And I shed some tears :'( ...
It's been confirmed to be legitimate by three different people already.Can anyone update me on whether or not the CE team is getting in contact with Square?
...I've just watched the trailer. And I shed some tears :'( ...
I would also like to know if they did. Just to make sure this letter wasn't from some random A-hole on the internet. Anyone can fake a legal letter.
I wonder about that.I think your example would be Piracy, not Copyright Infringement.
It's neither. It's modifying a game that you own in order to get a better experience from it which is perfectly legal.
Many people have stated that they will no longer buy new Square Enix games because of this move. This news is EVERYWHERE. The host site, Reddit, Digg, other major blogs...
This HAS to get out to the general public.
Slashdot:
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/12/0643208
That seemed unnecessary.
BREAKING NEWS: God Issues Cease-And-Desist Orders To Dante, John Milton
BREAKING NEWS: God Issues Cease-And-Desist Orders To Dante, John MiltonThat was great, seriously, awesome.
About the only thing good from this is that Square actually still cares enough after 10 years of inactivivity, "not counting the DS release" to actually do this. About the only thing that could even partially make up for this is if they announce a new sequel to Chrono "something I doubt completely by now" at e3 this year.
Most people over 15 posts don't have much of a fondness for details or substance either...
If you want to know what I was referring to, it's the posts from people who all have +1 posts and come on the forum and say "Hey you should still release the game because blah blah" When apparently all copies of CE have already been deleted, which has been stated many times.
It's not like it'd be one guy jumping on a grenade and taking one for the team, it'd be one guy throwing himself and all his comrades on the grenade, and I don't think anyone wants to sell their friend down the river like that.
Slashdot:
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/12/0643208
Happy it got to the main page.
The timing of this does indeed make Square Enix look just about as callous as they could possibly look.
This is only a personal anecdote -- get enough of them and maybe you can call them data -- but back when they were still Squaresoft, they weren't like this. As an intermediate-level student of Japanese in college, I translated a large amount of dialogue and other material for games of theirs that never got any release outside Japan, and put the stuff on my web site. When Square found out about it, they invited me to interview with them, paying what was to me an insane amount of money to get me to their offices and meet the staff.
I didn't get chosen to be a translator -- and there's no shame at all in losing out to the genius that is Alexander O. Smith -- but it was a great thrill for an ordinary undergraduate like myself, and at no time did they ever issue any stern warnings about putting my translations into ROMs, or selling anything I'd created; they were interested in what my abilities could do for them, not in stamping out the creative force of their fans.
I'm surprised -- well, maybe not anymore -- that these modders didn't get better treatment from the game maker that they so admire, and that the significant abilities they demonstrated in making this hack were, it seems, totally ignored. Instead, the Big Corporation sat on its hands for five years watching these fans work their magic, then dropped the hammer, giving them five days to unconditionally surrender to their demands. And without even the courtesy of putting an individual person in position to answer possible questions and arguments from the Compendium! No, SE just left a generic phone number, and no name, at the bottom of a legally-binding letter. They couldn't have been more insulting if they'd tried.
I'm still a little unclear about how the North American branch of SE is involved in this -- the game was made by Squaresoft in Japan, and the only thing added to it by the North American team is the translation, none of which, obviously, is being used in a fan-made game with a totally new script. The copyrighted material that's being "borrowed" was made in Japan, where doujin material is a standard part of game/manga fandom. I know things are looking bleak for the Compendium, but I wonder if an appeal to Square Enix KK (Japan) might save the project. The way things are now, it certainly couldn't hurt.
That artical makes it sound like A) It was a CT:DS hack B) that Crimson Echoes and the compendium were two separate groups.Eh, it sounded more like it was trying to compete with CT:DS, which certainly doesn't help out this cause. But yes, they acted as though Chrono Compendium was another fan project, which is just a misnomer.
http://www.ted.com Larry Lessig, the Nets most celebrated lawyer, cites John Philip Sousa, celestial copyrights and the "ASCAP cartel" in his argument for reviving our creative culture.
In regards to the guy who translated some Japanese Squaresoft games in the 90's and wound up getting invited over as opposed to burned at the stake I may be able to shed some light on that. When that happened the company as he said was still SS. However when they merged with Enix to become Square Enix it was actually Enix that became the parent company if I'm not mistaken. It's kinda how we now have Activision Blizzard and yet the parent company is Blizzard. Some of their titles are still made under the old Activision label for simply the fact that people know the name but for all intents and purposes Guitar Hero is made by Blizzard.
What does this mean? Simply this: with Enix in control of Square it's a different group of people you are dealing with. As a result they may not be as easygoing as the Squaresoft of old. Hence the C&D.
yeah, I can't remember where, but I remember reading that after Final Fantasy The Spirits Within bombed, Squaresoft just kind of went broke. Eventually Enix just bought the company, but was nice enough to ttell the general public that it was a Merger more than anything. So really, the company is CALLED Square-Enix, but it is just Enix. The company that didn't try gaining profits off of their titles by lying to their fans (No offence square >_>). That also sheds some light. Why is everybody saying they hate Square when it's really Enix that sucks? Square was amazing up until FF:SW. Anywho, now I'm rambling so the post eeeennnnnnnds...... now.
Enix = the same jerks who wouldn't release Terranigma in the United States after it got an English translation and was released in Europe.
Hehe, my god, that is enlightening. I for one thought Dragon Quest was lesser known than Final Fantasy
:( Uh oh ... my first post. I do hope it turn out well
Is there anyway for the story to get intention by Japanese media especially Famitsu.
The fact that Famitsu is the most respected Japanese video games magazine could be some sort of help here.
:( Uh oh ... my first post. I do hope it turn out well
Is there anyway for the story to get intention by Japanese media especially Famitsu.
The fact that Famitsu is the most respected Japanese video games magazine could be some sort of help here.
That's actually a really good idea!! (Though, I don't know what kind of attention it will attract since from what I understand Chrono isn't big in Japan.
Also, maybe get some word out to GamePro, Electronic Gaming Monthly, GameTrailers, and even 1Up?
EDIT::
Here's Famitsu's contact page: http://www.famitsu.com/docs/info.html
(Google Translate: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.famitsu.com%2Fgame%2Fnews%2F1213478_1124.html&sl=ja&tl=en&history_state0= )
Given that your project sounds like it won't be immediately recognizable in name or in appearance, sounds like you'd be fine releasing, then doing a bit of viral advertisement on Youtube. However, Square Enix probably wouldn't take a second look at any fan project until fruition and release became a surefire thing.
EDIT: Although maybe I'm wrong on that, because Chrono Trigger Remake didn't have any more complete than just a few proof-of-concept videos. It's really hard to determine.
Oh noez, not Facebook!? I wonder if the nefarious Twitter will also come into use for the cause?
I shall recap the events for you in the form of a fairy tale (If anyone doesn't like the post just edit it out, I'm cool with it ;) )
If you want to skip the boring stuff that you've probably already heard look for Picard!!
Once upon a time A big corporation known as Shinra inc. Created a game called Time travel. It was one of the greatest games of all time. Years later, a group called Avalanche decided that since Shinra had screwed the people out of the game for so long, they would rebel (In a sense) and create their own fan game version of it. However, deep in the hearts of the members of Avalanche they still loved the old Shinra. So they decided that it would be non Profit, and they would advertise the original game inside of their fan fiction.
However, Shinra was not pleased by this. So they sent Sephiroth out, and had him demand they delete all copies of their game, or else. Avalanche, complied with the demands and had all copies that they had in their possession destroyed. However, Avalanche, still being the rebel group it was, decided it would not just lie down. It spread the news far and wide attempting to gain as much publicity from all the member's of the slums as they could. They were determined to get Shinra to notice them.
During this time, many people began looking for loop holes. Some found Potential possibilities, other's found nothing. Nobody found a sure fire deal that would get the game back however. :picardno Then, one man. Just a passer by, who went by the name Toma the explorer. He finds a link to a discussion where a man named Reeve who works for shinra in the legal department, had been doing some research. He finds out that Shinra had sent Sephiroth out because they though that Avanalanche was latering their recent remake of the game, and trying to steal profits. It turns out they had sent the turks to go do some investigating. The Turks however, being the lazy B's that they are, did not do research and decided to just send Sephiroth out for the hell of it.
To this day Avalanche still lies in wait. Trying to reason with Shinra, looking for every advantage they can. They are determined to get Time Travel Red Sound waves out to the people.
So what'd you think? I rather enjoyed writing that story myself...
No, people were asking wht was edited out of those earlier posts. The little bit about the research past picard is what was edited out, and Reeve is the person we don't want getting fired.
no no no no no, that was a different story. Go back.... 2 pages I believe. There will be 3 or 4 edited posts. People were asking what was in those posts, as they were edited out to protect the person who had been quoted in the posts, about things that oculd potentially get him fired if Shinra saw them. I might add this recent discovery to the story too if I get the time *Flea laughing pose*
SE IS the Dream Devourer
Any word from them or upcoming word from them?
SE IS the Dream Devourer
Any word from them or upcoming word from them?
Nothing yet, but hopefully we will hear of something this week.
I need subscription, now ! The news is what i eagerly to see. I have keep my hope up a little.
btw it is more accurate to refer SE as Lavos
I am the one in GameFAQS.
I am sorry if my attitude towards felixrush has misrepresented my character, I believe Mensmachine and Altra know I am not a bad guy, but I am just tired of felix trolling, I decided to just ignore him for a while, but he just keeps ruining and derailing fun topics at the Chrono Cross board.
I promise I will not display the same attitude in here, I recently created my account here at the Compendium, because of all the comotion. But I have been a user of it's vast knowledge for quite some time, so I am really grateful to be a part of this community.
Having said that, I hope what you say is true, and felix doesn't come here... because he has badmouthed this site in many topics, that is also why I just can't stand the guy...
Anyways, enough ranting about him, best forget about him at all, I really hope you opinion of my changes, I will not claim how good of a guy I am, let time and my actions prove it to you, and if you still think ill of me... then that would be sad u.u
But anyways, hope we can get along, and I really hope I get along with everyone here, this site is so great, I hate what's happened to your amazing projects...
Look, people have opinions. It happens. Some have said that this place has some "closed minded" or "egotistical" people, but in all honesty, that's not really the case. Like all things, time will reveal truths and that goes to anyone anywhere; especially here.
We're just glad to have all the new people aboard! It's nice to see this much support for the Compendium, for Crimson Echoes, hell, for the world's mother effing greatest: Chrono Trigger!!!
I say that a lot of the more permanent members are quite open minded. That doesn't mean we believe and accept ever thing philosophy tossed our way. We listen, analyze, and decide on each idea. Many of which are flawed, and some of which are not but may fit another life style. Then there are those that ring true to each member individual and we take what we have learned.Look, people have opinions. It happens. Some have said that this place has some "closed minded" or "egotistical" people, but in all honesty, that's not really the case. Like all things, time will reveal truths and that goes to anyone anywhere; especially here.
We're just glad to have all the new people aboard! It's nice to see this much support for the Compendium, for Crimson Echoes, hell, for the world's mother effing greatest: Chrono Trigger!!!
Heh. Everyone here is closed minded. We just openly argue and discuss our closed mindedness (and if you disagree, Boo, that just proves that we are both closed minded about the issue!)
=D
Love for Evry1!
I say that a lot of the more permanent members are quite open minded. That doesn't mean we believe and accept ever thing philosophy tossed our way. We listen, analyze, and decide on each idea. Many of which are flawed, and some of which are not but may fit another life style. Then there are those that ring true to each member individual and we take what we have learned.Look, people have opinions. It happens. Some have said that this place has some "closed minded" or "egotistical" people, but in all honesty, that's not really the case. Like all things, time will reveal truths and that goes to anyone anywhere; especially here.
We're just glad to have all the new people aboard! It's nice to see this much support for the Compendium, for Crimson Echoes, hell, for the world's mother effing greatest: Chrono Trigger!!!
Heh. Everyone here is closed minded. We just openly argue and discuss our closed mindedness (and if you disagree, Boo, that just proves that we are both closed minded about the issue!)
=D
Love for Evry1!
The Eye of Faust sees all. 8)
The Fairy Tale's perfectly fine as far as I'm concerned, and seems to be a creative compromise all things considered. Let's hope you can write a sequel.
Anyways, enough ranting about him, best forget about him at all, I really hope you opinion of my changes, I will not claim how good of a guy I am, let time and my actions prove it to you, and if you still think ill of me... then that would be sad u.u
The Eye of Faust sees all. 8)
The Fairy Tale's perfectly fine as far as I'm concerned, and seems to be a creative compromise all things considered. Let's hope you can write a sequel.
Magus says: "So this is what happens when time dies"
Well, could be they already understood and have nothing to discuss right now, which leads to going off-topic.
no offense to anyone new here. It doesn't apply to you, really. I have nothing against you. Just the whole sum total of all of you guys posting in the same general time period...
Quoteno offense to anyone new here. It doesn't apply to you, really. I have nothing against you. Just the whole sum total of all of you guys posting in the same general time period...
No offense, but you're new here.
Yes, I know, but I joined prior to the incident... that statement was directed towards those who joined "Post 1999", if you know what I mean.
QuoteYes, I know, but I joined prior to the incident... that statement was directed towards those who joined "Post 1999", if you know what I mean.
And you joined just prior to it... Maybe two weeks at most. It's okay, the more we have the merrier! I'm just saying... You registered April 24th and all... I'm just pro-honesty around here. Whether it's pre-C&D or post all that matters is that stand strong as a community. We are the Chrono Compendium, and we heart the Chronoverse.
QuoteYes, I know, but I joined prior to the incident... that statement was directed towards those who joined "Post 1999", if you know what I mean.
And you joined just prior to it... Maybe two weeks at most. It's okay, the more we have the merrier! I'm just saying... You registered April 24th and all... I'm just pro-honesty around here. Whether it's pre-C&D or post all that matters is that stand strong as a community. We are the Chrono Compendium, and we heart the Chronoverse.
For the sake of everyone else's safety ( I could'nt give a *&#% about 'myself' )
Hey, talks are still ongoing. Let's not worry about any talk of "martyring" anyone just yet.
With the douchebag outted as having lied to SE, and their C n D being written while having the wrong idea bout the project, maybe they'll soften their stance a bit.
I mean, it's like a fanfiction mod of their game. This isn't a whole new animal like Chrono Resurrection (to any SE who may think that) It's existence isn't going to threaten the property or their livlihoods. They'll just be looked at as bullies going after modders by keeping stuff like this down.
Hell, I'm actually more interested in playing CC because of this game, this game would probably earn SE more money rather than take their money. It's not like, "Oh dear, I played CE so I'll never buy any new SE games." Actually, the more time people spending obsessing over anything CT-related, the more likely they are to spend money on CT-stuff.
Hopefully SE will understand that. For now let's try to keep things more mature about SE and be less fanboyish, at least until things are finalized.
Also, our main enemy right now should be that doucehbag, not SE. We'll have to wait and see how SE reacts to all this news before having a final analysis of them.
Square isn't printing CC anymore, so the only copies of it you'd be able to play you would be getting used. Square would make no money off of that at all.
Just popping in really quickly to say this made the Guardian.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2009/may/21/game-theory-copyright
Edit: And, I just noticed the irony of the above statement.
Edit 2: Would that really fall under the heading of irony?
WHOOAAAA, thanks Uboa! Compendium's gone big time now!I agree--that was possibly the most well-written and well-informed article yet. His outlook is very enlightening.
And that's a damn fine article!
Yeah, I like that guy. In fact, I'm going to adopt/steal his last three words. "Embrace and Assist!"WHOOAAAA, thanks Uboa! Compendium's gone big time now!I agree--that was possibly the most well-written and well-informed article yet. His outlook is very enlightening.
And that's a damn fine article!
Conversely he's not really helping though. He merely states that sometimes game modifications are supported and sometimes they aren't.True, but he's a journalist, and I doubt he's able to delve deeply into something that could be perceived as "controversial". However he was bold enough frown upon SE's actions and suggest alternatives--and really, aside from getting the facts straight, that's about all we can ask of most of these guys.
Also, I have no idea how things are right now, and I know you all don't have the liberty to talk inside stuff, but if you're gonna do something, I'd make haste. If you let too much time pass Square Enix will consider the case closed for good.Aye, Faust, is anything crucial going on behind the scenes? I know Zeality is out of town, but haven't some developments been made on this front? Are we getting anywhere in establishing a dialog with Square?
There is unfortunately nothing substantive to report yet on the dialogue front.
However, we're preparing a little something for y'all. Even in worst-case scenario you'll get to see the full game even if you can't play it. SE has probably seen us dropping hints of video footage, and let's just say that they've had ample opportunity to express any concerns they might have about that, and yet have not done so.
I've thought of something that might be neat to try if the secret talks never get anywhere. I can't think of anything wrong with it so I'll post it here and everyone can tell me what they think if there is anything I'm missing or it is the worst idea ever or whatever. Sorry is is long
Basically you said you'd like a 2nd message from square so take the talks public and somebody in the project would write a public email to Square asking them to respond. It would say something like this:
1)First talk about how we suspect the C&D was based on lies and misinformation of a troll (talk about that email posted and why it looks legit with the forum posts on ign and gamespot. And the copy protection stuff suggesting square thought it was the ds version and saying you claim copywrite in the C&D)
2)Then simply ask that square publicly responds with a second C&D letter you'll publicly post confirming that they are aware of all the facts (you are hardcore fans who love them and advertise CT DS in the game and are not profiting and it is an ips patch of the snes version and there is no evidence or reason to believe they will lose profits if it is released. what temporal flux is, negative press showing support for you from gamers) and if they still want you to stop. If they knew all these facts before the first one a second one should be as simple and easy as pie!
3)optionally politely ask for an explanation why they are targeting this game but not any other romhackers on the web for any of their games that are doing the exact same thing as you. Also optionally ask to clarify why is temporal flux illegal when the snes game has no copy protection.
4) If they do not send you anything by some day, you can only logically assume that they have reconsidered after learning more info and that first C&D was based on lies and invalid. you can safely ignore it from then on and square is not aloud to sue you.(maybe ask a lawyer if that is true :P ) and you and all ct fans would be eternally grateful and love them for understanding their fans it was all that troll's fault and you will buy lots of their games. If they do send one you will be sad but continue to comply.
The plan would be if you don't get a response to finish up CE 100% and release it as quickly as possible without fear of being sued. If they do then youtube is probably the only thing left.
The possible results of this I see are:
1)Square will not sue you immediately for asking for a second C&D to confirm. It is probably not illigal anyways and it will cost them money and publicity and make them look like big jerks when they could just send a free email.
2)It would be illogical to not say anything then sue after you release it. It would cost them money they won't get back make them look like big jerks and make tonnes of publicity for a game that is now on the internet causing many to play it. Sending a 2nd email before it is released would be better
3) They could respond and stick to their guns. You are no worse off then before but now have that second public response you said you wanted for more negative press now complete with an interesting story of an internet troll bringing down a community with lies and square being gullible and stubborn. It is an interesting story that will spread everywhere I see a movie based on this. 8)
4) Square sends an apology and free games. hurrah you win there is a huge victory party on the internets :P lol
I hope the plan is clear and I don't see any downsides to doing this. Of course it is up to the CE team and they can do whatever they think is best I'm probably missing some big reason why this would result in disaster. i'm not a lawyer and I don't know what they've said behind the scenes so those people would know better then me.
Keep up the excellent work :D
Just popping in really quickly to say this made the Guardian.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2009/may/21/game-theory-copyright
Edit: And, I just noticed the irony of the above statement.
Edit 2: Would that really fall under the heading of irony?
I've thought of something that might be neat to try if the secret talks never get anywhere. I can't think of anything wrong with it so I'll post it here and everyone can tell me what they think if there is anything I'm missing or it is the worst idea ever or whatever. Sorry is is long
Basically you said you'd like a 2nd message from square so take the talks public and somebody in the project would write a public email to Square asking them to respond. It would say something like this:
1)First talk about how we suspect the C&D was based on lies and misinformation of a troll (talk about that email posted and why it looks legit with the forum posts on ign and gamespot. And the copy protection stuff suggesting square thought it was the ds version and saying you claim copywrite in the C&D)
...
I hope the plan is clear and I don't see any downsides to doing this. Of course it is up to the CE team and they can do whatever they think is best I'm probably missing some big reason why this would result in disaster. i'm not a lawyer and I don't know what they've said behind the scenes so those people would know better then me.
Keep up the excellent work :D
3)optionally politely ask for an explanation why they are targeting this game but not any other romhackers on the web for any of their games that are doing the exact same thing as you.Well put man, and I agree with most of what you said, but not the point I quoted: we shouldn't make ourselves out to be the exception, rather than the rule. Likewise, this could be taken as a slight against our fellow ROM hackers. I'm not saying that following your suggestions would, but we don't need to vilify these people; they're our supporters and we don't need to draw unnecessary attention to them to pacify ourselves.
**UPDATE**
not a big one though, just an email.
Thank you for contacting SQUARE ENIX Customer Support,
We appreciate your feedback. It will be forwarded to my superiors. Thank you for taking the time to contact us today and we look forward to your opinions of our upcoming titles.
Thanks,
******** - SQUARE ENIX Customer Support
www.square-enix.com
Thank you for contacting SQUARE ENIX Customer Support,
We appreciate your feedback. We apologize that the announcement you are referring to do not meet your expectations. Your information will be forwarded to my superiors. We do cherish the support and opinion from our customers and look forward to hearing your remarks regarding our upcoming games.
Thanks,
Neil- SQUARE ENIX Customer Support
www.square-enix.com
I keep reading things like "talk are ongoing" and stuff about the "dialogue between the CE team and SE" and "secret talks" and all this other stuff. I've lurked on the forums for quite a while before registering, and I've used this site extensively for my own research and study for my ongoing fan project. I've tried to follow this thread and the "truth" thread about this issue.1: I think the secret talks arn't what they sound like. Maybe I missed a thread, but I think it was born out of a misunderstanding (not 100% certain though)
I guess based on what I've read, I must ask, and I think we deserve an honest response.
The "ongoing talks" or "secret talks" or whatever... is this simply the CE Team have sent SE a couple of emails and are simply waiting/hoping for a response? Or is there -actually- something going on?
I'm not trying to be a pessimist or a downer or whatever, but it looks to me like a couple of emails have been sent and everyone is playing the waiting game, and its being represented as though there is actually something happening, and I don't really consider sending a couple of emails then just hoping there will be a response as much of an action, and certainly nothing for the people waiting on the game to be holding onto for hope.
So really all I'm asking is a clarification. I understand if there is actual dialogue going on, the CE team wouldn't be at liberty to divulge anything. But really, I don't think SE is likely threatened by the "bad press" people are claiming they are getting, and I certainly don't think they are under any obligation to or probably even compelled to respond to a handful of emails. So, if that's what is really going on, "we've sent some emails and are simply waiting" then I think we deserve to know that much at least. If that's the case, I would be utterly surprised if there was any response beyond the automated replies people are getting.
Now, don't get me wrong, I HOPE something gets worked out. I HOPE everyone waiting on this gets a chance to play it, I HOPE that SE will ease up because I feel they are being unnecessarily harsh. I'm with the majority here on what they hope to see happen. Truth be told, I had no interest in CE prior to all of this, but all of this has actually got me wanting to play it, funny how that works huh? So yeah, I'm not trying to be a downer or one of those "annoying noobs', I just simply feel like a clarification on whether more is going on other than "hoping" for a response by Square would be nice.
Well, they say no news is good news...Let's think that. It's more postive.
HadesKane, what I would call "actual communication" is ongoing. However, there is still nothing newsworthy to report at this time. SE is apparently thinking, and we'll have to give it our patience. And lots of it.
SE is researching the origins of the troll's email, tracking him down basically for questions. Most of that emails information has been and can be further proven false. My email I had sent covers most of the major aspects of the email (selling for profit, claiming copyright, TF piracy bypass, etc.)
SE is researching the origins of the troll's email, tracking him down basically for questions. Most of that emails information has been and can be further proven false. My email I had sent covers most of the major aspects of the email (selling for profit, claiming copyright, TF piracy bypass, etc.)
All of the lies can be proven false though, as they have in my email. And yes, I am in contact with SE.
All of the lies can be proven false though, as they have in my email. And yes, I am in contact with SE.
Ah, well I certainly hope this is the case, and if it is, I give you kudos for actually trying to do something rather than just gripe about it :D
All of the lies can be proven false though, as they have in my email. And yes, I am in contact with SE.
Ah, well I certainly hope this is the case, and if it is, I give you kudos for actually trying to do something rather than just gripe about it :D
How are you in anymore contact with them then me. We both sent an e-mail and we both recived similar (mine was nicer :lol:) replies. D..did they send you something else? I mean your comment can be alittle misleading otherwise.
Eitherway at least you did something. Perhaps we should share the e-mail address with more people. If others want to e-mail them I wanna believe they would be polite about it...then again It may be a bad idea. If we busy them up with our e-mails the people they should be talking to will find it more difficult to reach them.
Either way it's good to know things are moving nicely, I am keeping a postive outlook...I wanna scream "I know everything will turn out all right" I mean regardless of the outcome its better to have tried then to have done nothing.
How about everyone leaves the official communication with SE for those actually involved with Crimson Echoes? For our credibility's sake.
And for those who are so curious about the "behind the scenes" stuff, obviously at this point you don't need to know. When you do need to know, you will. So be patient, sit tight, and just watch the front page. K? Not that difficult, people.
And for those who are so curious about the "behind the scenes" stuff, obviously at this point you don't need to know. When you do need to know, you will. So be patient, sit tight, and just watch the front page. K? Not that difficult, people.
Oh you don't have to worry about stuff like that. especially with Faust around... He's always Watching you O_O.... In fact he'll probably show up within 10 minutes of this post.... So feel free to ask a question, as it will always be answered.... But at the same time be afraid.... Be very afraid.....HadesKane, what I would call "actual communication" is ongoing. However, there is still nothing newsworthy to report at this time. SE is apparently thinking, and we'll have to give it our patience. And lots of it.
I appreciate the response :)
I was hoping I was wrong in what I was fearing, and I really do appreciate anyone taking the time to respond.
Oh you don't have to worry about stuff like that. especially with Faust around... He's always Watching you O_O.... In fact he'll probably show up within 10 minutes of this post.... So feel free to ask a question, as it will always be answered.... But at the same time be afraid.... Be very afraid.....HadesKane, what I would call "actual communication" is ongoing. However, there is still nothing newsworthy to report at this time. SE is apparently thinking, and we'll have to give it our patience. And lots of it.
I appreciate the response :)
I was hoping I was wrong in what I was fearing, and I really do appreciate anyone taking the time to respond.
How are you in anymore contact with them then me. We both sent an e-mail and we both recived similar (mine was nicer :lol:) replies. D..did they send you something else? I mean your comment can be alittle misleading otherwise.
I don't mean to ruin everything, but is this really going to help? Ok, the guy did send them a pack of lies, but it's partly Square Enix's own fault for blindly believing him and not doing their research.
Hah, I've always suspected the Alienat0r letter was fake anyways. I mean, how do we know he actually sent that to Square Enix? There's absolutely no proof that it was real, and there is some evidence that even points to it not being real ("Neill" for example).
Hah, I've always suspected the Alienat0r letter was fake anyways. I mean, how do we know he actually sent that to Square Enix? There's absolutely no proof that it was real, and there is some evidence that even points to it not being real ("Neill" for example).
The reason why Neil was misspelled is because Neil is not a bot, if you notice, he used horrible grammar in OverlordMikey's email:
Thank you for contacting SQUARE ENIX Customer Support,
We appreciate your feedback. We apologize that the announcement you are referring to do not meet your expectations. Your information will be forwarded to my superiors. We do cherish the support and opinion from our customers and look forward to hearing your remarks regarding our upcoming games.
Thanks,
Neil- SQUARE ENIX Customer Support
www.square-enix.com
From:
"Square Enix Customer Support" <support@square-enix-usa.com>
To:
*****************@yahoo.com
Thank you for contacting SQUARE ENIX Customer Support,
We appreciate your feedback. We apologize that the announcement you are referring to do not meet your expectations. Your information will be forwarded to my superiors. We do cherish the support and opinion from our customers and look forward to hearing your remarks regarding our upcoming games.
Thanks,
Nathan- SQUARE ENIX Customer Support
www.square-enix.com
Thank you for contacting SQUARE ENIX Customer Support,
We appreciate your feedback. It will be forwarded to my superiors. Thank you for taking the time to contact us today and we look forward to your opinions of our upcoming titles.
Thanks,
Neil- SQUARE ENIX Customer Support
www.square-enix.com
...We apologize that the announcement you are referring to do not meet your expectations. Your information will be forwarded to my superiors. We do cherish the support and opinion from our customers and look forward to hearing your remarks regarding our upcoming games.
Thanks,
Neil- SQUARE ENIX Customer Support
www.square-enix.com
Thank you for contacting SQUARE ENIX Customer Support,There are some other people's names used (at least in the past), and so far I've found one response with the correct "does not meet".
We appreciate your feedback. We apologize that the announcement you are referring to do not meet your expectations. At this time we have not made any announcements of Star Ocean 4 on PS3. Your information will be forwarded to my superiors. We do cherish the support and opinion from our customers and look forward to hearing your remarks regarding our upcoming games.
Thanks,
Neil- SQUARE ENIX Customer Support
...A far better solution than Anne Rice's actually siccing lawyers on fanfic authors (true story to my knowledge).
I really, really hope our Planet's dream is not over yet...
I guess I view these threads as a funerary procession of sorts. By letting discussion flow freely and allowing new members to express their condolences even in seemingly random ways, we're all sort of slowly working through our grief.
If they were, do you really think they'd announce it here and now? In the middle of a discussion about how fan games aren't permissible?
fangame makers don't need to worry until they're at about 98% progress with their game.
we already know Square Enix got some facts mixed up
Well for a starter, we already know Square Enix got some facts mixed up, and secondly, fangame makers don't need to worry until they're at about 98% progress with their game.The precedent has been set; all SE needs to do is find out about the project, and then it will be terminated. And as far as 98% goes, I doubt they'd wait long, again.
Keep in mind that Chrono Trigger: Resurrection was not a modification, but an original game engine. Modifying ROMs (especially SNES-era ones) was thought far safer than the original engine route until now.
Keep in mind that Chrono Trigger: Resurrection was not a modification, but an original game engine. Modifying ROMs (especially SNES-era ones) was thought far safer than the original engine route until now.
This entire thing with the CE C&D has caused a lot of commotion, and hasn't only attracted outside fans, but it has depressed the inside fanbase as well (us). Especially with Crisis nearly falling apart and Ark going original. There's nothing anymore, absolutely nothing.
Then again, it might be good to wait a while, until everything has calmed down more.
Keep in mind that Chrono Trigger: Resurrection was not a modification, but an original game engine. Modifying ROMs (especially SNES-era ones) was thought far safer than the original engine route until now.
It seems easier to find legal logic defending a mod rather than an original game.
Mod = already owning a product or have to buy it to play.
Original engine = using an idea without paying anything for it.
That's really how you put it. I could say this right now
Mod = Being lazy and stealing the original engine
Original = Creating your own engine only using some of the original characters
Dark Serge, for someone who's actually pitched in admirably in Compendium modding activity, your attitude is surprisingly unfriendly to modding. Where's the passion to play as Magil (http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/6259/image1eaq.png), Dark Serge, and other characters in Chrono Cross? Or have you experienced a change of heart as of late?
In any case, those dreams can never be realized now that all modding activity at the Compendium has ceased.
YOU HAVE TO FIGHT
FOR YOUR RIGHT
TO PAAAAAARTAAAAYYYYYY!
You're right, but didn't they really intend to sell it? I can't remember.
QuoteYou're right, but didn't they really intend to sell it? I can't remember.
Nope, it was going to be a free download.
As for this alienat0r guy, has anyone else wondered if he's a registered member of the Compendium? i keep wondering that myself... not that it really matters. the asshole did a very assholery thing - and for no reason, to boot. for a fan of Chrono Trigger he destroyed everything. douche.
Still, that's a lead worth checking out. Thanks for the tip Dark Serge. He could have just been hanging out watching since then or something.
I believe we have a mole in the Compendium. And he/she is registered and is one of our very own. Whomever the mole may be... speak up or suffer whenever we find out who you are.
If so, then it was a mistake registering, as registering makes him/her easier to track.We still don't have too much info to go on, to be truthful. There's over 3000 Compendium members, and that's a lot to check through. Like a needle in a haystack. I did check out the profile of "alienation" Acacia Sgt, and you're right. So that's a dead end unfortunately.
Just because Alienat0r isnt a registered member doesnt mean he cant view the forums. Why would he need to register if all he was doing was snooping around to see what progress has been made. I lurked around here for about 4 months before I made a profile.
When will we see the video of the full playthrough?
Hey I just noticed that Faustwolf and me are only like 21 days apart when it comed to joining. I say this because Faust has the feel of an older member to me.Probably because I always use old dudes for my avatars. Been doing it since day one, except that one time I used an avatar of Yoko from Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow and actually got at least one member believing I was a woman. Avatars are everything absent of other info.
When will we see the video of the full playthrough?Answering this would unfortunately be giving away spoilers that you'll know sometime this week anyways. :lee:
Quote from: OverlordMikeyHey I just noticed that Faustwolf and me are only like 21 days apart when it comed to joining. I say this because Faust has the feel of an older member to me.Probably because I always use old dudes for my avatars. Been doing it since day one, except that one time I used an avatar of Yoko from Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow and actually got at least one member believing I was a woman. Avatars are everything absent of other info.Quote from: Mr BekklerWhen will we see the video of the full playthrough?Answering this would unfortunately be giving away spoilers that you'll know sometime this week anyways. :lee:
No plans for a direct sequel Mr. Bekkler -- the CE team always meant to bridge Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross directly, absent another official entry in the Chrono series that could accomplish that.
Doesn't mean other projects didn't want to expand on the new storyline elements established by CE though. It's all come to an end with the C&D, unfortunately.
:picardno
Yeah, it's an ancient demo. But thanks Mikisho, you did the right thing by reporting it.Er, you sure? The dude looks like he's a fan of ours!
That file Mikisho reported is just an ancient demo; it's simply not the right size.
Until today, I had never heard of Crimson Echoes, or at least I never paid attention to it. Even if I had heard about it, I probably would not have played it. I prefer to play games on consoles, and I'm not that much of a fan of fan games.
Now that I have read the announcement, though, I am utterly sickened by this development. This feels like a punch in the gut.
I know there have been countless posts like this, but Chrono Compendium as a website/organization has been for the fans and allowed people to show appreciation for the games they love. It isn't about promoting an individual or making money, and this humility is a rare trait on the Internet.
I can understand why Square Enix would do this, although I really wish that if Square were going to squash the project, that they would at least let it live in some form, even if they published Crimson Echoes in tact as a new game or something and gave you no credit at all. As horrible as it would be, at least all that hard work would not have been for nothing.
What I can't understand if why they would shut this down, but let other people actually profit off their copyrighted work from other games without permission. You all didn't ask for a dime. You weren't looking for glory. You spent years of your lives on a project out of love. Meanwhile, others can be far less selfless and prop themselves up, and yet they run around scot free.
This makes me want to cry, and worry what other fan works will be targeted next.
Oh for the love of.... I don't care how long, or how literate it is, we do not need to hear the pleas of every single person who has heard of CE for the first time, and wishes to send their condolences. Honestly, crying and letting everyone know your feelings will not help the situation. It will merely annoy some people (AKA me) or just not affect the situation. You won't get any (Well, maybe some but only a little) sympathy from these kinda of posts. Honestly, we should have a big sign on the main site saying no whining in the forums. Because I am getting tired of it.... Anyway, that's the ranting from the newb for today.
He has a point somewhere though. As much mourning as we're doing, it's starting to look like with CE the entire fanbase fell apart. But because of the C&D we have gained a lot of new members and supportes. We should take advantage of this somehow.
He has a point somewhere though. As much mourning as we're doing, it's starting to look like with CE the entire fanbase fell apart. But because of the C&D we have gained a lot of new members and supportes. We should take advantage of this somehow.
What would you suggest?
As I've said before Mikisho, these threads are a funerary procession of sorts, and are meant precisely for the purpose of expressing frustration, shock, and grief. All Nangbaby did was place yet another flower before CE's grave.Yeah I know. But I find letting my frustration of anything from the world, out on little things in the internet is quite healing ;). I'll try and stop whining myself about all the whiners. Though, there's no guarantees that I won't forget xD
Dark Serge, you'll see how the Compendium will take advantage of the situation soon enough.
FaustWolf, if you mean an ordinary, opinionated Ogre Battle fan, yes that's me.
I also admit, I was (and still am) upset about a couple of other things, which led me to be needlessly dramatic. I, too, failed to show humility, and I apologize for posting in this thread and stirring up ill feelings.
Come now. I don't know why you're being so hard on yourself, Daniel. Yours was in fact a very needy post.
:o
Come now. I don't know why you're being so hard on yourself, Daniel. Yours was in fact a very needy post, filled with dramatics.
:o
FaustWolf, if you mean an ordinary, opinionated Ogre Battle fan, yes that's me.Nah, don't be hard on yourself. I'm just being *****y and whiny.
I also admit, I was (and still am) upset about a couple of other things, which led me to be needlessly dramatic. I, too, failed to show humility, and I apologize for posting in this thread and stirring up ill feelings.
Fuck, you motherfuckers need to let this thread die.
QuoteThis is the final remnant of the work that I had here...
Wait, there was going to be a dancing Schala in CE?
Oh, F*** SQUARE ENIX
Fuck, you motherfuckers need to let this thread die.Bah, V. You and I both know enough is enough. I'm going to be the rude one to point that fact out.
YOUR IRONY IS NOTED. YOUR WASTED POST IS NOT.
~V_Translanka
This thread makes everyone more depressed .
Then avoid this thread. It's as simple as that.
I'm sure some other poster(s) have basically said what I just did, but yeah, I'm not gonna go through 48 pages to find out.
Speak for yourself *Puts on baboon mask* RAWRLWLWLWLGAGJDF!!!I'm sure some other poster(s) have basically said what I just did, but yeah, I'm not gonna go through 48 pages to find out.
If you did I'm sure after the first page it would all sound very familiar... and each of the other 47 pages would probably feel like deja vu too.
If you plan to stick around, though, welcome. :shock: We'll try not to scare you.
I honestly do not understand why so many people are upset over the C&D deal. Look, it is Square's right to do so, as their copyrighted material was being used, albeit not for a profit. But that does not matter in the eyes of the law.
Comparing the use of copywrited material to civil rights? Are you really this stupid or is that supposed to be a joke?
Considering that I believe the free use of derivative material to BE a civil right, I am dead serious, absolutely right, and not stupid."Absolutely right"? Pretty sure that is an opinion and not a fact, and I am discussing fact.
You saying that using copyrighted material is okay in your eyes, but guess what? Many people do not think like you do so that opinion (as well as any opinion) is invalid.
And equating using ROM data to the civil rights movement...nice touch. Let me guess, since I agree with what Square did (in practice, not personally to be clear) that must make me a racist or some sort of government supporting fatcat, dangling the Sword of Damocles on those poor, unheard masses of would-be programmers too?
There you go. I don't give a damn rat's butt about the law. Ever.
Either way, you forfeit your standing to talk about legal issues if you're not willing to acknowledge the foundations of the rule of law.
I'm a copyright anarchist, yes. Maybe not on things like murder and such, but on copyright definitely yes. I'm sick of seeing corporations bullying people and issuing C+D orders right and left. This incident has been the last straw to push me toward radicalism.
Eh, this whole incident has gotten me really pissed off, so I've been saying a bunch of stupid stuff. I hope this whole situation works out so that everyone gets to play CE, but the less likely that's become, the angrier I've gotten. I know a lot of people around here don't want me staying pissed at S-E, but I think I'm going to resent them for this for a long time to come no matter what anyone says.
I expect the video game industry, and SE in particular, to "get it" much sooner than, say, the music industry--which has been eviscerated by its own trade group--but for that to happen there will have to be compelling fan works out there, accessible to the world, and thus able to demonstrate their value
All game materials, including, but not limited to, their design, text, graphics, screen shots, files are copyrighted by SQUARE ENIX Co., Ltd. All rights reserved. Any other use of materials of our games -- including any commercial use, reproduction for purposes other than that noted above, modification, distribution, or republication -- without the prior written permission of SQUARE ENIX is strictly prohibited. No materials of our games may be used on any other product, published, or otherwise performed in public.
Until today, I had never heard of Crimson Echoes, or at least I never paid attention to it. Even if I had heard about it, I probably would not have played it. I prefer to play games on consoles, and I'm not that much of a fan of fan games.
Now that I have read the announcement, though, I am utterly sickened by this development. This feels like a punch in the gut.
I know there have been countless posts like this, but Chrono Compendium as a website/organization has been for the fans and allowed people to show appreciation for the games they love. It isn't about promoting an individual or making money, and this humility is a rare trait on the Internet.
I can understand why Square Enix would do this, although I really wish that if Square were going to squash the project, that they would at least let it live in some form, even if they published Crimson Echoes in tact as a new game or something and gave you no credit at all. As horrible as it would be, at least all that hard work would not have been for nothing.
What I can't understand if why they would shut this down, but let other people actually profit off their copyrighted work from other games without permission. You all didn't ask for a dime. You weren't looking for glory. You spent years of your lives on a project out of love. Meanwhile, others can be far less selfless and prop themselves up, and yet they run around scot free.
This makes me want to cry, and worry what other fan works will be targeted next.
Oh for the love of.... I don't care how long, or how literate it is, we do not need to hear the pleas of every single person who has heard of CE for the first time, and wishes to send their condolences. Honestly, crying and letting everyone know your feelings will not help the situation. It will merely annoy some people (AKA me) or just not affect the situation. You won't get any (Well, maybe some but only a little) sympathy from these kinda of posts. Honestly, we should have a big sign on the main site saying no whining in the forums. Because I am getting tired of it.... Anyway, that's the ranting from the newb for today.
Dammit, J. If I see one more post like this I'm going to ban you.Eh, this whole incident has gotten me really pissed off, so I've been saying a bunch of stupid stuff. I hope this whole situation works out so that everyone gets to play CE, but the less likely that's become, the angrier I've gotten. I know a lot of people around here don't want me staying pissed at S-E, but I think I'm going to resent them for this for a long time to come no matter what anyone says.
I for one welcome the ongoing enmity. Square Enix will not change its ways until forced by a court, a legislature, or a huge wad of money. That's how progress happens. The villains usually have the law on their side, until suddenly they don't anymore.
The people who defy the big media companies are the ones who will eventually trigger the events which bring about better copyright laws. I recall that it was you who said, earlier in this thread, that the CE team is a bunch of cowards for complying without a fight. Maybe there was some of that. But it was a pretty straightforward strategic decision. Not every single injustice can be a trigger for change. This time, the ingredients simply weren't there. All of us at the Compendium management and everyone on the CE development staff disagree with SE's legal reasoning, but it's definitely a gray area. The development team stood an excellent chance of losing any suit, for lack of money, for lack of solid legal arguments, and for lack of friendly legal precedent on this matter. Their only real mistake was publicizing the game ahead of release. Had it been released, and then followed up with the marketing blitz, there would have certainly been a C&D letter, but probably no lawsuit, because the development team would have complied, but the game itself would have already been out there for the world to pirate as it saw fit.
The development team got a firsthand taste of the story of Icarus. They knew there would be a C&D, but they had not truly grappled with the ramifications of it. In all my time here, I have consistently counseled "serious" fan projects to stay underground. No one seems to take me seriously. Oh well. Maybe this will change things. One thing is for certain: Square Enix has won this round decisively, but, if the thinking of the fan community evolves as a result of this disaster, then the next feature-length fan game will be released under the radar, and thus the long struggle for intellectual property law reform will be that much farther along. I expect the video game industry, and SE in particular, to "get it" much sooner than, say, the music industry--which has been eviscerated by its own trade group--but for that to happen there will have to be compelling fan works out there, accessible to the world, and thus able to demonstrate their value. If you're looking for a show of contrition from the development team, they would certainly tell you that they regret being so visible with the game prior to its release, which undermined their ability not only in releasing a feature-length Chrono game, but to participating (productively) in advancing the relationship between game companies, fans, and fan projects.
Being an ideologue isn't very useful. Strategically, the dev team undermined their own ability to put up a serious challenge to Square Enix by being so loose with the game prior to its release. Once the C&D was sent out, it was already too late to defy it. Any show of resistance would have, very likely, cost JP (and potentially ZeaLitY) a lot of money--possibly in court judgments, but certainly in legal expenses defending in court.
Are you kidding, Faust? I've got a list ten miles high of people who are getting permabanned the instant my Moon Stone recharges.
(That's what sapped it the last time...)
On the other hand I don't like Lord J Esq because I feel he is a creator of anger. I mean who welcomes enmity, not me that's for sure.
I would like to note every E-mail we have seen from the people at SE has been very polite, perhaps we should show the same dignity.
*sigh* foolishness, I say.
One way or another, SE being polite or otherwise, WE should be polite.
Being polite is a way to earn respect. Being impolite will get you looked down upon and ignored.
Don't be a dumbass, be polite.
I for one welcome the ongoing enmity. Square Enix will not change its ways until forced by a court, a legislature, or a huge wad of money. That's how progress happens. The villains usually have the law on their side, until suddenly they don't anymore.Hey, other than my second or third post in this topic, this is the best post in here! =D
The people who defy the big media companies are the ones who will eventually trigger the events which bring about better copyright laws. I recall that it was you who said, earlier in this thread, that the CE team is a bunch of cowards for complying without a fight. Maybe there was some of that. But it was a pretty straightforward strategic decision. Not every single injustice can be a trigger for change. This time, the ingredients simply weren't there. All of us at the Compendium management and everyone on the CE development staff disagree with SE's legal reasoning, but it's definitely a gray area. The development team stood an excellent chance of losing any suit, for lack of money, for lack of solid legal arguments, and for lack of friendly legal precedent on this matter. Their only real mistake was publicizing the game ahead of release. Had it been released, and then followed up with the marketing blitz, there would have certainly been a C&D letter, but probably no lawsuit, because the development team would have complied, but the game itself would have already been out there for the world to pirate as it saw fit.
The development team got a firsthand taste of the story of Icarus. They knew there would be a C&D, but they had not truly grappled with the ramifications of it. In all my time here, I have consistently counseled "serious" fan projects to stay underground. No one seems to take me seriously. Oh well. Maybe this will change things. One thing is for certain: Square Enix has won this round decisively, but, if the thinking of the fan community evolves as a result of this disaster, then the next feature-length fan game will be released under the radar, and thus the long struggle for intellectual property law reform will be that much farther along. I expect the video game industry, and SE in particular, to "get it" much sooner than, say, the music industry--which has been eviscerated by its own trade group--but for that to happen there will have to be compelling fan works out there, accessible to the world, and thus able to demonstrate their value. If you're looking for a show of contrition from the development team, they would certainly tell you that they regret being so visible with the game prior to its release, which undermined their ability not only in releasing a feature-length Chrono game, but to participating (productively) in advancing the relationship between game companies, fans, and fan projects.
Being an ideologue isn't very useful. Strategically, the dev team undermined their own ability to put up a serious challenge to Square Enix by being so loose with the game prior to its release. Once the C&D was sent out, it was already too late to defy it. Any show of resistance would have, very likely, cost JP (and potentially ZeaLitY) a lot of money--possibly in court judgments, but certainly in legal expenses defending in court.
Being polite spared ZeaLitY and JP any risk of lawsuit. It got us exactly zero else. Once we went supine, SE walked all over us. You'll see that in the news update today.
If I may corrupt a famous maxim, when an elephant is stepping on a mouse, it does the mouse zero good to be polite about it, and it makes zero difference if the elephant is being polite about it.
For me, the bottom line is that no matter what happens (unless Square capitulates and lets you guys release the game), I will never, ever, EVER forgive Square for this. I don't care how polite they are and I don't care what anyone says, I will hold this grudge against them until the day I die and there's only one thing that would change that.
For me, the bottom line is that no matter what happens (unless Square capitulates and lets you guys release the game), I will never, ever, EVER forgive Square for this. I don't care how polite they are and I don't care what anyone says, I will hold this grudge against them until the day I die and there's only one thing that would change that.
Don't be ridicilous, you know you can't possibly keep that promise.
Oh don't worry, everyone is a prick in some way.I lol'd
Me to. :lol: Well the truth is funny.Oh don't worry, everyone is a prick in some way.I lol'd
Let people boycott SE if they want. You and I are under no obligation to join, nor do we have any standing to interfere in the right of others to choose for themselves. Honestly, I expect--and hope--that this cold splash of water will be the trigger for some members of our community to move away from fan projects and toward their own, original material.
Oh don't worry, everyone is a prick in some way.I lol'd
What the hell is wrong with fan projects?
Sooooo your teacher was sexist? Or held really bad double standerds? I'm a guy and crying is the only way I ever feel better. I never resort to punching something except for one time when a theropist suggested it. (It didn't work...I felt like hurt something.....hurting everything.... :D yea I'm a borderline sadist) I know it's not the point of this thread but that is sexist it suggests Men are inheriently violent and Women are inheriently whiney when it's actully they are both inheriently violent ^.^. Either way your teacher is a sexist and I hate him/her (gonna guess her based on the men are violent and selfdestructive thing, but it could be a guy) for saying such a thing.A teacher I once had made a distinction between guys and girls: "When a guy gets angry or sad, he'll punch a wall and feel better--mentally, since he's now got a broken hand. When a girl is angry or sad, she has good cry and lets it all out and then feels better--mentally, of course, as she's now congested and tired."Oh don't worry, everyone is a prick in some way.I lol'd
Well, the Compendium is a multi-gendered blob, so it could go either way. The CC equivalent of punching a wall would get us sued, so we opted for having a good cry. It is NOT the 'sissy' thing to do, it's the smart thing to do, so take your macho 'screw the law and FIGHT THE POWAH' and blow it out your nose. I'm not saying you can't still post that here, but it really isn't practical.
What the hell is wrong with fan projects?
Sooooo your teacher was sexist? Or held really bad double standerds?A teacher I once had made a distinction between guys and girls: "When a guy gets angry or sad, he'll punch a wall and feel better--mentally, since he's now got a broken hand. When a girl is angry or sad, she has good cry and lets it all out and then feels better--mentally, of course, as she's now congested and tired."Oh don't worry, everyone is a prick in some way.I lol'd
Oh and Dark Serge is a prick....I mean it. He was Alienati0r or whatever that guys name was....the e-mail guy.
I wonder what this means for a project like Chrono Crisis where most of their content is 100% from scratch
I wonder what this means for a project like Chrono Crisis where most of their content is 100% from scratch
It's now an independent project. They've left the Chrono universe and are doing a spiritual successor to Chrono Trigger. They won't be getting a C&D letter from anyone.
Well, Chrono Ark is doing that. Is Chains still doing Crisis? Does anybody know anything about that?
http://member.square-enix.com/na/fanzone/groups/grouptop.php?gid=182
you wouldn't happen to think square enix came to this site via that group right?
If that's so, then my bad. I doubt it though since I never linked or talked about, nor would I have allowed if someone else started to, CE in the group. So basically there was nothing in there that SE couldn't have found by Googling "Chrono Trigger" (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Chrono%20Trigger%22&gbv=2&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw)...*shrugs*
If they can get 37 goddamn dollars for The After Years, they could EASILY charge 30 bucks for Crimson Echoes and a ton of people would totally buy it. I'd buy it. Does Square Enix not like making money or something?
Now that we've seen how the Super Mario has helped shape Conan O'Brien's Tonight Show backdrop, we had to get Nintendo's reaction. We did.
"That's great," Nintendo of America president Reggie Fils-Aime said as he looked at it for the first time during his interview with Kotaku.
"We know that he is a fan of what we do, and we're thrilled to have him as a passionate Nintendo fan. maybe we'll have to go play some Wii Sports Resort as well as."
So, no cease and desist, Reggie? "No. For Conan, we'll let that one slide."
Legally, they shouldn't require you to destroy every copy until everything is completely resolved legally. You might be required to take extreme pains to protect that copy against hackers and leaks, of course.
Of course, there would've been no way for them to tell if anyone kept a copy or not.
Gah! That would have been such a good NPC line!FW actually said that when someone asked him why he hit with an 18 xD. Lh that crazy Faust. He's watching us all, but he doesn't know how to play blackjack xD. But yeah, that would have been a great line. ugh, I hate being a gamer. My life can be so depressing at times, and I have no one to talk to about it, besides people who are grieving with me -.-
--JP
But what happens in Choras...
ugh, I hate being a gamer. My life can be so depressing at times, and I have no one to talk to about it, besides people who are grieving with me -.-
Yeah...my mom really couldn't care less, but she's in the unfortunate position of being the only one around, so I usually pester her with my video-game rants. Still, I love being a gamer! ^^
Agent 12? That used to be <EDIT: sorry laith I changed that name for a reason >Eh, fair enough. Someone could've told me before I went around using your old name. I mean, you've used it for the longest time and it got me when you all of a sudden changed it to Agent 12.
Same here. :lol: That "--JP" thing always says it. You were there ever since I registered to the forum, and suddenly when CE was gonna be released there were talks about "Agent12". I was like, "who the hell is Agent12?! I've never head of him before!" But when I saw the JP thing, guess that hit it. :wink:Agent 12? That used to be <EDIT: sorry laith I changed that name for a reason >Eh, fair enough. Someone could've told me before I went around using your old name. I mean, you've used it for the longest time and it got me when you all of a sudden changed it to Agent 12.
I said the quote. But then it shows a quote of me quoting you saying what I said.... Like I said, something went HORRIBLY WRONG!!!I had to re-read that five different times. Way to go.
:picardno When will this thread either die, or stop being resurrected by (semi) off-topic posts?Now, now, mister hypocrite.
Rainbow Shell, nuff' said^You being participatory.
And Three days later...Just when I thought this thread died... And to rebirth it with off-topicness... god (ghandi, buddha, jesus, etc) what is this world coming to?Good thing you put a stop to it with one of your own! Oh wait...
:picardno When will this thread either die, or stop being resurrected by (semi) off-topic posts?Now, now, mister hypocrite.
Rainbow Shell, nuff' said^You being participatory.
Then, after much inactivity...Quote from: V_TranslankaAnd Three days later...Just when I thought this thread died... And to rebirth it with off-topicness... god (ghandi, buddha, jesus, etc) what is this world coming to?Good thing you put a stop to it with one of your own! Oh wait...:picardno When will this thread either die, or stop being resurrected by (semi) off-topic posts?Now, now, mister hypocrite.
Dark, you used to participate in this thread. Three days ago you posted in the thread the fact that you wish others would stop posting in this thread. Somebody called you out on it, and today you did it again. And somebody called you out on it.
I'm just saying you're wasting your time. Kind of like I'm wasting mine putting this post together cause you're not going to pay attention to it.
since this thread is still active..
this was my youtube comment on the playthrough..
"what square did was completely ridiculous. all theyve done is alienate the fanbase.
hopefully this beta version gets leaked as well. barring that, maybe someone can debug/improve the already-leaked alpha version and make this game a reality.
the internets always hated censorship."
but yea, i along with many others are against the C&D. however, i also question whether square-enix was really willing to legally pursue CE, or if they were just sending a C&D out of routine and werent going to do any more.
not only that, but to completely delete a work that took years seems like an enormous waste. if the 99% complete beta version was leaked, lets say by a beta tester who didnt comply, what could the creators do? after all, if it were put on wikileaks it would be pretty safe.. people post classified documents on there that piss governments off, but the info stays up. overall, the leak of the final game doesnt seem to me as dangerous as you make it out to be.
of course, if i wanted the game to be leaked, i would put on a big public display of deleting it and banning everything about it to cover myself legally.. not accusing anyone of this, but thats what id do. Very Happy