Chrono Compendium
Zenan Plains - Site Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Legend of the Past on April 07, 2006, 08:25:12 am
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Now, I know we usually don't advertise games BUT, this is a special case, because you might not hear about it otherwise.
The game I'll recommend goes by the name of 'The Way'. It's an RPG Maker 2000 Project, but with graphics I've never seen before, and two battle systems. I won't elaborate, as it's kind of something you'll learn, should you decide to play the game. Now, the game is split into episodes, 6 of them currently out. The sixth was released a few monthes ago, so the project is quiet alive. With custom music (Not ALL of it... But much of it, anyway) and graphics, and a very good and well developed storyline (And I mean a storyline that'll make you ask yourself what just happaned here), the game's creator, Lun Calsari is hailed as a genius by members of the community.
The plot itself takes place in a world known as 'The Way', and starts off very innocently: You play a Wanderer named Rhue, who seeks his lost childhood love along the Way. Rhue is willing to do anything to reclaim his love, but when meets characters and becomes involved events that will soon make him reconsider who he is and his existence on the Way he starts to doubt his way, and the more time passes and events happan, so does Rhue's view of the world and himself begins to warp and change. The Sixth episode has multiple endings, which can be accessed by fulfilling certain ingame requirments. I found this game series to be quiet the experience, and hope you will play and reach into the depths of the plot, as well. The games can be downloaded through here.
http://www.crestfallen.us/download.html
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It's deservedly considered one of the best (if not the best) RPG Maker 2K games out there. Things can get a little slow at times, but it's still very good.
I still need to give Ep 6 a go.
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It's deservedly considered one of the best (if not the best) RPG Maker 2K games out there.
The best, I'd say. For a game not made by a company, the plot's damn incredible. Episode 6 has some crazy twists. CRAZY.
I still need to give Ep 6 a go.
Ah, you should be warned: Loads of secrets. And... three secret characters. As well as three different endings. And loads (LOADS) of Notch Items to find. I used The Way Walkthrough to find all of them... And I still missed a few. But the plot's good... Even if it feels somewhat disconnected from the rest of the Episodes. That's a side effect of the massive amount of sidequests.
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The best, I'd say. For a game not made by a company, the plot's damn incredible. Episode 6 has some crazy twists. CRAZY.
I think that's a grave misconception in modern writing: that plot twists make for a good story. The Iliad was spelled out from the beginning, but its classic nature did not diminish. No one was in doubt about the outcome of Sophocles' plays, but their power did not lack. And what was the glory of Shakespeare's best, such as Hamlet? Was it an unexpected twist? No, but the examination of the human condition. A twist, actually, is a rather cheap storytelling technique. For those truly in control of their writing, things needn't be hidden to the audience for the power to remain. It's only one step away from killing a character for shock value.
Just a personal gripe of mine - I don't like it when people equate unexpected twists with good writing.
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I think that whether or not a plot twist is cheap depends on how and when it's used, and on how far from left field it comes. If it comes outta nowhere, pretty bad. But if it's appropriately foreshadowed and whatnot, I don't see why there's any reason why it shouldn't be done. If properly utilized, previous scenes that seem almost arbitrary take on incredible new meaning.
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I think that whether or not a plot twist is cheap depends on how and when it's used, and on how far from left field it comes. If it comes outta nowhere, pretty bad. But if it's appropriately foreshadowed and whatnot, I don't see why there's any reason why it shouldn't be done. If properly utilized, previous scenes that seem almost arbitrary take on incredible new meaning.
Speaking of plot twists, there's always Oedipus.
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I think that whether or not a plot twist is cheap depends on how and when it's used, and on how far from left field it comes. If it comes outta nowhere, pretty bad. But if it's appropriately foreshadowed and whatnot, I don't see why there's any reason why it shouldn't be done. If properly utilized, previous scenes that seem almost arbitrary take on incredible new meaning.
Speaking of plot twists, there's always Oedipus.
You're right, it does depend - and foreshadowing it does indeed take away its shock, and rather give it depth in return. However, it should not be used as a basis for what makes a good plot. I hear all too often about how this and that has a good twist to it, as though that's what makes or breaks a story.
As for Oedipus... nah, no twist there at all. It might come out of left field to us who don't know it, but you have to consider the people to whom it was written. Every one of them knew the story of Oedipus - the outcome, and the overall plot, was never in question. In fact, even for those who don't know it, from about 1/3 on the end is painfully obvious - Teiresias comes right out and says everything Oedipus has done, he just doesn't comprehend it. The plot twist, as it were, twisted the characters, but the audience stood aloof and aware... and in that lies the tragedy. The audience can see the progression, groan at the mistakes and follies, but the characters seem oblivious.
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Eh, I haven't read the play. I'm just vaguely aware of the concept.
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The best, I'd say. For a game not made by a company, the plot's damn incredible. Episode 6 has some crazy twists. CRAZY.
I think that's a grave misconception in modern writing: that plot twists make for a good story. The Iliad was spelled out from the beginning, but its classic nature did not diminish. No one was in doubt about the outcome of Sophocles' plays, but their power did not lack. And what was the glory of Shakespeare's best, such as Hamlet? Was it an unexpected twist? No, but the examination of the human condition. A twist, actually, is a rather cheap storytelling technique. For those truly in control of their writing, things needn't be hidden to the audience for the power to remain. It's only one step away from killing a character for shock value.
Just a personal gripe of mine - I don't like it when people equate unexpected twists with good writing.
Where did I say Plot Twists mark a good plot? A good plot COULD have (And possibly should... Predictable is bad) good twists, but it isn't some kind of characartistic... Besides, you don't know the plot, so please... I thought the twists were well built and foreshadowed. It's not like it's spat out. I, for one, had suspected it for quiet some time. But the plot takes a very complicated form at the end. Seriously, I haven't been this confused since Cloud's background.
I don't really see WHY you had to attack me. Make a point? I like the plot because the characters are well-developed. You can totally see why certain characters do certain things. I, for one, watched proudly as Rhue developed from puny Wanderer to kickass Plunger (I'd say Lyn... but that's a term of the game). I got really bonded to his character, and rather enjoyed how the plot grew and developed. And it grew and developed well. The past and present are connected well, and I really, really hope you could enjoy the game, too. As difficult as some of the mini-games COULD be...
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Where did I say Plot Twists mark a good plot? A good plot COULD have (And possibly should... Predictable is bad) good twists, but it isn't some kind of characartistic... Besides, you don't know the plot, so please... I thought the twists were well built and foreshadowed. It's not like it's spat out. I, for one, had suspected it for quiet some time. But the plot takes a very complicated form at the end. Seriously, I haven't been this confused since Cloud's background.
Because it was the first thing you said when you said the plot is good. You said, essentially, it's got a good plot - the twist in the sixth episode was incredible. That's equating one with the other. Don't take it personally, but it's just me. Actually, I tend to dislike complicated plots - for the FFVII point, I actually really, really disliked that aspect of the game. Complexity does not make a plot good, either. I'm saying this as a writing critic, Legend - remember, I take issue with the writing of far more illustrious writers of fantasy than those of a RPGmaker game, as well.
I don't really see WHY you had to attack me. Make a point? I like the plot because the characters are well-developed. You can totally see why certain characters do certain things. I, for one, watched proudly as Rhue developed from puny Wanderer to kickass Plunger (I'd say Lyn... but that's a term of the game). I got really bonded to his character, and rather enjoyed how the plot grew and developed. And it grew and developed well. The past and present are connected well, and I really, really hope you could enjoy the game, too. As difficult as some of the mini-games COULD be...
Oh, come on, Legend! Do you really think I was attacking YOU? I'm a writer - I'm naturally quick to be critical of a fantasy story. I'm very harsh in judging those written by others, even as I am for those things I write myself. If anything, it was an admonition to not consider a plot good based on such things as twists, which I would probably consider an amateur technique much of the time (keep in mind, those twists in my own writing are some of the things I dislike the most in it, and attempt to remove with the greatest furvour these days.) Now, what you said in this last paragraph... alright, that's all valid. But it's the mark of a poor writer that ends up just confusing the audience with twists and with things difficult to understand. Anyone can write confusion - it is far harder to write clearly. That's one of the things I never liked about FFVII... it seemed rather thrown together in so far as plot went. Indeed, I would consider the plot to be rather substandard compared to the rest of the game. It's not the mark of a good writer to force the audience to go through something a second time. I've read Homer, Aeschylus, Shakespeare, even Lucan etc. and understood them just fine; I still don't get exactly what was going in in FFVII. That's not genious, nor depth - that's a flaw, I think.
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Complexity means it's like real life. Real life, Dan, is complicated. When you look at a situation and can't understand what happaned, the events were connected in a way that's really hard to understand.
But meh. I'm still waiting for E7 to answer all the questions that came up due to the twists in the plot.
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Just a personal gripe of mine - I don't like it when people equate unexpected twists with good writing.
I will second that. As a writer myself, I can humbly say that good writing is a little harder than some would have us believe.
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Ugh. I just meant a well together plot can form a good twist, but that's not to say the opposite holds true.
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Ugh. I just meant a well together plot can form a good twist, but that's not to say the opposite holds true.
I agree with you. I was not disagreeing. Daniel simply happened to make a universally veracious point, and I was compelled to laud it.
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Just play it, I guess. For the twists... There are hints and winks towards it. It doesn't yell it out loud before the Plot, but an observant person can pick up all the hints, small and big alike.
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Just play it, I guess. For the twists... There are hints and winks towards it. It doesn't yell it out loud before the Plot, but an observant person can pick up all the hints, small and big alike.
If you put it that way, sure, that sounds good. Like I said, I'll see.
Oh, and Lord J, you're a writer, eh? Planning to be published some day?
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Oh, and Lord J, you're a writer, eh? Planning to be published some day?
I have been published! But not for anything of novel-length, which is what I suspect you are talking about, so, yes, it remains at this point an intention rather than an accomplishment. That's one of the reasons I used to have trouble taking you seriously: You trumpet yourself as both a writer and an engineer. I am both, the one by self-teaching and the other by formal education, and I had trouble seeing the expertise you claimed.
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Oh, and Lord J, you're a writer, eh? Planning to be published some day?
I have been published! But not for anything of novel-length, which is what I suspect you are talking about, so, yes, it remains at this point an intention rather than an accomplishment. That's one of the reasons I used to have trouble taking you seriously: You trumpet yourself as both a writer and an engineer. I am both, the one by self-teaching and the other by formal education, and I had trouble seeing the expertise you claimed.
Oh, neat! In what way: articles and papers? I myself would like to be published in time - novels, that is, and maybe articles in my chosen field (which is Classics.)
Well, I never claimed myself in expert in either writing or engineering - I'm certain you're a more reliable a writer, as it were - better command of grammar, and the like. I'm more of a poet-vein, I think, tending to at times break certain writing conventions. But I AM a writer, that's for certain - I've written a lot, even if its value is questionable (I will say though that, to my slight discomfort, I think I have all of one person ever dislike my fiction writing.) And this ring on my finger proclaims me an engineer. Though in that I'm mediocre at best, I can rattle off a bloody lot of engineering-related (mechanical, that is) if really pressed - and I'm pretty good at design-work.
But if you failed to see that, I'm not surprised: my engineering, though it's my formal training, is something I am not inclined to be all too passionate for - my mind is for Classics, rather. And for writing... well, I don't make my fiction style apparent in forum posts. It's a different fashion of writing, after all. I'm most definitely not so intellectual or complex in style as are you.
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Oh, and Lord J, you're a writer, eh? Planning to be published some day?
I have been published! But not for anything of novel-length, which is what I suspect you are talking about, so, yes, it remains at this point an intention rather than an accomplishment. That's one of the reasons I used to have trouble taking you seriously: You trumpet yourself as both a writer and an engineer. I am both, the one by self-teaching and the other by formal education, and I had trouble seeing the expertise you claimed.
Oh, neat! In what way: articles and papers? I myself would like to be published in time - novels, that is, and maybe articles in my chosen field (which is Classics.)
Well, I never claimed myself in expert in either writing or engineering - I'm certain you're a more reliable a writer, as it were - better command of grammar, and the like. I'm more of a poet-vein, I think, tending to at times break certain writing conventions. But I AM a writer, that's for certain - I've written a lot, even if its value is questionable (I will say though that, to my slight discomfort, I think I have all of one person ever dislike my fiction writing.) And this ring on my finger proclaims me an engineer. Though in that I'm mediocre at best, I can rattle off a bloody lot of engineering-related (mechanical, that is) if really pressed - and I'm pretty good at design-work.
But if you failed to see that, I'm not surprised: my engineering, though it's my formal training, is something I am not inclined to be all too passionate for - my mind is for Classics, rather. And for writing... well, I don't make my fiction style apparent in forum posts. It's a different fashion of writing, after all. I'm most definitely not so intellectual or complex in style as are you.
Such flattery! No need for that, now.
My only significant claim to publication fame was my work for my university's newspaper. Due to the story-sharing between participating institutions I appeared in a number of papers, but only consistently at the UW. A small claim, to be sure--but I would be lying to say I was not thrilled to get my name in front of so many eyes. You may still be able to find a few of my articles online, even today.
You are certainly a well-studied writer. I looked in on your Chrono fanfiction once upon a time; if you will accept my modest praise, I can see in your writing, if not necessarily an excellence in capturing your fascination with the subject matter, certainly the fascination itself--in abundance!
Now our flattery is even.
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So I guess the game I was dicussing is now gone, destroyed with the cogs that mangaled this thread were moving?
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Macbeth has the strangest plot twist of all time...I mean, how does a cesarean mean you are not born of a woman? But Polanski made the best version of Macbeth...just thought I'd like to add that.
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Macbeth has the strangest plot twist of all time...I mean, how does a cesarean mean you are not born of a woman? But Polanski made the best version of Macbeth...just thought I'd like to add that.
Well, I really didn't like the Polanski version, but it's the only one I've seen. I wish Kenneth Branaugh would make MacBeth.
However, here's an interesting thing. One person who hated that plot twist was Tolkien. He thought both that part of the prophecy, and the wood coming to Dunsinane, were stupidly executed. So he decided to do better. Now, for the first, not many people know the 'Tolkien world' history behind it, but essentially, in the battles wherein Arnor, the North Kingdom, is destroyed by the armies of the Witch King of Angmar, the king of Arnor is about to charge his enemy. However an ally of his, the Elf Lord Glorfindel (cf. the Elf at the Ford, and the elf who in ancient days died killing a Balrog at the fall of Gondolin) makes the prophecy that no man born of a woman will kill the Witch King. Fast forward to the Battle of Pelennor fields, where the same foe vaunts that prophecy, only to have it shattered - not because some man was born in a different way, but because his foe is in truth a woman! No man could kill him - but a woman could. And as for the second... Tolkien's incarnation of that event was Fangorn forest and the Ents coming to Isengard.
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Macbeth has the strangest plot twist of all time...I mean, how does a cesarean mean you are not born of a woman? But Polanski made the best version of Macbeth...just thought I'd like to add that.
Lady MacBeth is badass!
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The "no man of woman born" was stupid...though it sounded cool!
And Lady Macbeth is a hottie in Polanskis ;)
And Kubrick should've made a Macbeth film *hmph* :lee:
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That would've been interesting.
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Remember that part where Macbeth finds the imaginary dagger?
(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1313/kubrikmacbeth9qf.png)
Looks like Kubrick has been doing some work beyond the grave.
We need a *lame* BBCode.