Chrono Compendium
Zenan Plains - Site Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: PrincessNadia78 on March 09, 2018, 02:31:19 pm
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I know shortly after I joined here I mentioned finding Flames of Eternity and Crimson Echoes on Etsy. OMG I had NO IDEA that FoE is a stolen CE. I researched it today when I watched a LP of FoE on YouTube and I finished it and decided to watch CE next. Needless to say I was shocked when they started out very similarly. I actually feel really bad about it and knowing this now I will never play FoE, just CE. Seriously, forgive my ignorance because I seriously had NO IDEA! Thank you guys, you are seriously the best!!
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No big deal.
So here's the lowdown... Crimson Echoes (CE) was in a beta state and had been sent out to a few people to demo. There was still polish to be made, bugfixes to find and implement, and new techs were scheduled to be created.
During this demo time, someone with a beef against the Compendium and ZeaLity (one of the co-founders of the Compendium and someone with a strong personality that rubbed some people the wrong way) supposedly went to SquareEnix, said that the authors of Crimson Echoes were going to sell the game for a profit and were intentionally violating the IP, so SquareEnix sent a Cease and Desist to all involved with the fangame.
This caused a huge uproar. Some people claimed that it was a PR stunt by the CE team, who actually had no viable product and were lying about CE.
Part of this C&D from SquareEnix demanded that the Compendium stop hosting and facilitating modding, and essentially wanted the closure of our Kajar Labs subforum (which was our singular location for ROM hacking and modding as a whole). Kajar Labs was shuttered and almost immediately the Compendium lost a lot of activity and hasn't recovered.
This was right around the release of Chrono Trigger DS in 2009, so there was a ton of buzz and excitement for the Chrono community, and Crimson Echoes had a website and was out there. It was a heavy blow to our morale.
The few fan projects still in the works migrated elsewhere and are still hidden out there. We lost a lot of momentum for fangames at that time; obviously no new fan games have been produced in the nine years since. Although there are a few that are still in the works.
Going back to the fallout from Crimson Echoes being C&D'd... Eventually, one of the people with a copy of the beta demo ended up releasing it, despite the Cease and Desist. Many saw it a dickish move, since it put those involved in the C&D at risk for litigation, but what was done was done. Once it was out there, there was no taking it back. So the playable beta demo was passed around, torrented, hosted, etc.
Not long after this, FaustWolf recorded himself playing the beta demo and released the entire playthrough to YouTube as proof of the demo's existence and as a medium for those to still enjoy the story of the fangame. We assumed that would be the end of it.
Then came the Flames of Eternity (FoE) team. They took the demo and decided to give SquareEnix the middle finger and finish the incomplete beta demo. Once again, this ruffled some people's feathers, as it could have potentially put those behind the Crimson Echoes C&D at risk. The FoE team has spent the past eight years or so working on builds, squashing bugs, implementing the new techs that had been planned, and have even added some new content in 2300AD.
Overall both CE and FoE are mostly the same, although FoE is definitely the more polished and complete build with a few changes.
I've played both and like some of the changes that the Flames of Eternity team have made (such as changing Agent42's accent), but I don't agree with all. I sort of feel like some artistic interpretation was lost in the migration.
Obviously, over time this place was quieted down and there hasn't been a ton of activity. I was non-active for years, only logging in once every six months or so. It's only been the past six months or so I've become active again. During that time, leadership decided that enough time has passed and allowed Kajar Labs to be reopened. Thus the public progress of Mauron's wonderful Temporal Flux and related tools.
Just to add... There are unconfirmed rumors that those behind FoE are actually some of those that worked on or were affiliated with CE, who decided to keep working on it under new aliases. I doubt this, but you never know with the internet. Just a rumor, but worth knowing as part of the story. :)
I was passive in all this and watched it unfold, so I wasn't directly involved with anything. I may have details wrong, so others can feel free to explain things I have misstated or gotten outright wrong.
EDIT: Fixed typos and added the final paragraph.
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OMG. I wish you could have seen my expressions as I was reading this. That is awful!! Even if you have an issue with someone, that was a bit of a dick move to go to Square. I'm very glad you took the time to fill me in because like I said, I had absolutely NO IDEA. So do you consider Flames of Eternity to be a good thing then? I'm genuinely curious.
Also, thank you for not thinking I was some sort of dumbass for not knowing. When I read what I found online I was seriously shocked and I felt sooo lame. I'm so happy that people here are so awesome! But wow... all that drama. That is so sad. It oddly makes me think of the fall of Zeal. Is that strange?
Thank you so much again for taking the time, Boo. I appreciate it very much!!
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Oh man, this brings me back.
I was among the flood of new members joining the Compendium after Trigger's DS release. Then I read up about CE and thought it very interesting. Was already familiar with CT before I knew of this place, so seeing a more direct sequel (I also like CC, but it's not as direct of a sequel), even if fan-made, was interesting. Alas, the C&D happened not long afterwards.
Yeah, I can't say much about the matter. I only showed up pretty much at the tail-end of it.
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Thus the public progress of Mauron's wonderful Temporal Flux and related tools.
Geiger created Temporal Flux, and added the wonderful plugin system that all my tools use.
Just to add... There are unconfirmed rumors that those behind FoE are actually some of those that worked on or were affiliated with CE, who decided to keep working on it under new aliases. I doubt this, but you never know with the internet. Just a rumor, but worth knowing as part of the story. :)
Having spoken with some of their team members... I seriously doubt that.
I joined the Compendium after hearing about Prophet's Guile. I started poking around Kajar Labs at the time, and got a little into the whole ROM hacking thing.
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Having spoken with some of their team members... I seriously doubt that.
Me too. I don't think that, but then again, I'm not a conspiracy theorist type IRL.
Geiger created Temporal Flux, and added the wonderful plugin system that all my tools use.
Oh yeeeeeeeeah.
Unrelated, I almost feel like there needs to be an article that explains the history of Crimson Echoes, from inception to the almost-release to the eventual C&D. Like a formal article. I may try to start typing out more and making an actual historical catalogue of the events.
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Yeah, I joined right at the tail-end of it all too. I still don't know all the details, so it's nice to have a good summary of it, Boo, so thanks for that.
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Yeah, I joined right at the tail-end of it all too. I still don't know all the details, so it's nice to have a good summary of it, Boo, so thanks for that.
Hopefully my memory is correct. Ten years is a long time, and I was very much a casual observer when all of this went down. Someone with more insight could easily swoop in and make some corrections (and I hope they do).
All-in-all, this place has been the best kind of roller coaster. I actually started following (on the peripherals) back before there even was a Compendium; it all started over on OCMR (although I seem to remember some GameFaqs overflow) in threads back around 2002/2003. Eventually, Agent12 (who went by a different name then, which I can no longer remember) and ZeaLity decided to migrate over and set this place up as a sort of hub for Chrono Trigger. I think that was 2003 or 2004?
I was a lurker, though, as I'm not really one for internet social media and forums in general (just try to find me IRL on Facebook -- you won't, hahaha). Not that there's anything wrong with it, just not that fun to me. Anyway, I didn't bother to register until around 2008. I was having trouble with properly patching Prophet's Guile and was forced to register to get help, hahaha...
I do wish more of the history of this place was chronicled. The people. A lot of contributions have gone to build this place up. Theories, fan games (99% of which went nowhere, including my own), even RP-ing. We've seen so many influential people come and go. Also, I'm horrible nostalgic, if you can't tell. I'm this way IRL, too.
I do hope Chrono gets a revival and this place gets more activity. Only because both this place and the franchise deserve it.
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I hear you on the nostalgia Boo. I too am the same way. (In case you haven't noticed. LOL)
I know I don't know a lot about the history of this place but if you do decide to put something together and I can help you organize or whatever, let me know as I would love to contribute!
I would also love to see more activity here and I can't help it, I still hope for a new Chrono game. Hell, I'll be hoping for that until they either make one or I'm dead. LOL
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I registered here during that saga too.
I remember saying that Zeality & company should release it anyway, and someone yelled at me for being a terrible jerk and wanting to ruin their lives, and how my existence should be forgotten. as I explained, I never wished anything negative on Zeality and the crew. I honestly thought at the time that the C&D was a bluff, an empty threat which they wouldn't actually carry out, especially when they saw that the game was being freely distributed. however, it was never my life and finances on the line, so I fully respect the decision to obey the C&D. even though it seems my instincts were correct in the long run, I still can't criticize Zeality & crew for making a prudent decision.
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When it comes to legal things like that, I completely get following the C&D. It's too big of a chance to take. However, just because you said they should have released it anyway, nobody should have called you names. But, people can be so mean on the internet... I just wish the C&D wouldn't have ever happened, like all of us. If SE was smart they would have hired them and released the game and the team would have made money. How's that for a win/win? I think the game would have done extremely well.
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I understand where it was coming from, since passions were running high at the time. as far as meanness, I've been to far worse corners of the internet. any conflicts I've had in this community don't compare to the absurdity and trolling elsewhere.
of course they should've co-opted the fangame. if there's enough demand for a new Chrono game that people pool their resources and create one, then surely there's a market. however, Square-Enix (affectionately known as Squeenix) is a far cry from the Square of yesteryear. they seem determined to live up to the corporate stereotype, including litigiousness, treating franchises as cash cows, and ignoring what the fans want if not actively antagonizing them.
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I understand where it was coming from, since passions were running high at the time. as far as meanness, I've been to far worse corners of the internet. any conflicts I've had in this community don't compare to the absurdity and trolling elsewhere.
of course they should've co-opted the fangame. if there's enough demand for a new Chrono game that people pool their resources and create one, then surely there's a market. however, Square-Enix (affectionately known as Squeenix) is a far cry from the Square of yesteryear. they seem determined to live up to the corporate stereotype, including litigiousness, treating franchises as cash cows, and ignoring what the fans want if not actively antagonizing them.
This post hit the nail on the head. And yeah, I do get what you are saying about passions running high. It had to have been a difficult time for all.
Yeah, Square makes me sad now. They used to be great but now they're just not. Just treating franchises as cashcows, like you said. :(
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Gotta love rampart corporatism!
I'm one of those cogs in the machine of capitalistic corporatism and I hate it.
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Omg Boo, I hear you there. I have the same problem and I also hate it.
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That was a wild time. I came out of Compendium retirement to help out with all the malarkey going on plus the enormous site traffic. I remember being on the phone with a Square Enix lawyer at one point, trying to get them to understand our position, and realizing I was way out of my league.
It's funny how different people's memories of the past diverge from one another (that could be an interesting game idea...). I don't remember the "traitor in our ranks" angle at all. Like, at all, and I was one of the forum founders too. I just remember the adrenaline we all felt at the time, and the sense that we were doing something important. Attracting Squeenix's notice, even if that negative way, was a head rush. I had virtually no role in CE's development (other than being an occasional muse), but I was at the heart of the Chrono community then and I was super thrilled to see a fan game of some quality finally come to completion. Everyone talks about making one (myself included), but following through--and making it good--is a much taller order. For a long time I wasn't expecting the game to be all that good, and then it turned out to be pretty awesome. I was glad to see CE go underground after the C&D--we all knew it would continue in some capacity--and I don't really even mind the ripoffs and mods. After all, that's what Crimson Echoes itself is!
You know, a lot of folks point to that C&D as the reason that the fan base withered away afterwards. In hindsight, that wasn't true. This community was built around its core personalities and the incredible freedom of speech ZeaLitY allowed us. As folks were explaining in one of the other threads, life kinda took most of us in our separate directions, and a community really does live and die on the passions and quality of its true believers. PrincessNadia, you missed some great times! (Hah, I guess it's all still here in the forums, the text if not the zeitgeist.)
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Supposedly someone (Shadow Darkman, or it may have been someone else that was a trouble maker in these parts around those times) or someone like that *claimed* to have had a beef with ZeaLity and the Compendium egoism as a whole and *claimed* to have reached out to Square Enix saying that the ROM was going to be sold. Granted, it could have been a troll making claims, but the claim was made by someone in these parts.
Someone also leaked the beta and got banned. I can't remember her name but I remember liking her and was kind of surprised that she did it.
But yeah... crazy.
Also, you're lying! There was no actual beta. Crimson Echoes was all a lie and an attempt to keep Chrono Trigger relevant. Lies lies lies. Even the letter was fake -- look at how the Square Enix logo is off center by .2 degrees. Fools! /s
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The letter was a publicity stunt to increase interest in Crimson Echoes. That's why they made the wording broad enough that they had to shut down the hacking portion of the site, and keep that community underground for years!
It might have been Shadow D. Darkman, but that sounds about right.
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Actually, I think it was Dark Serge who had the beef.
Also, the other one you were thinking of was teaflower. I was simultaneously both pissed off and heartbroken when I found out he/she was involved.
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Golly, I don't even remember those users.
And, yeah, I don't blame outsiders for being skeptical at the time. The safe money, when a fan production team says "Oh yeah we made the whole thing we're just not gonna show you" is usually that it's vaporware. Plus from a psychological standpoint I think the whole "CE is a fake and you're all liars!" thing is a way people protect themselves from the fact that they really do want more Chrono games and just aren't getting them--even fan games, most of the time.
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Man, I do remember them... well, barely. I think it helps that I was in an RP with them (well, I think not Dark Serge) when that section got a revival some time after I joined up and found it interesting.
Anyway... hmm, man, I sure had forgotten most stuff from that time, reading this up. It sure does feel like forever ago. 9 years already...
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Yes! Good memory! It was teaflower and Dark Serge! I think Shadow D. Darkman was moreso just an annoying troll-type who liked to piss people off.
Faustwolf put up the youtube LP series pretty quickly, though. I remember even after that people outside the Compendium still claimed it was fake footage. Everyone loves a good conspiracy theory.
I'm still waiting on the next release of FoE: http://metronomeproject.blogspot.com/.
I was annoyed at them in the beginning but am now happy they took the unfinished beta and put some finishing touches on it. Even now I wonder if any of them are any of YOU (insert conspiracy theory here).
:D
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Yeah, well, I'll just go forward and say I have nothing to do with it.
Or am I!? *Cue X-files theme*
Nah, just kidding. :lol:
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Yes! Good memory! It was teaflower and Dark Serge! I think Shadow D. Darkman was moreso just an annoying troll-type who liked to piss people off.
OMG this triggered my memory! I remember Shadow D. Darkman now. He was a troll who was hilariously bad at his job of trolling. I'd completely forgotten about him...
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I don't think he stuck around very long. Maybe six months at most? His trolling was definitely immature and there wasn't any thoughtfulness behind his antics.
I mean, If you're gonna mess with people, at least be *good* about it.