Chrono Compendium
Zenan Plains - Site Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: grey_the_angel on July 20, 2006, 02:38:57 am
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(http://c-uncut.com/media/ffta-marche.jpg) discuss the greatest, most sucessful villian in th SE universe.
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From my experience with SE games, it's certainly Lavos. Sephiroth is powerful, to be sure, but doesn't have a millionth the patience Lavos does, nor the cunning. Plus, he doesn't bear nearly so cool an epithet as 'the infamous immortal'. Oh, and accounting for Chrono Cross, Lavos in the aberrant form of the Time Devourer is many times more powerful. His battle with the royal family of Zeal (essetially the plot of CT/CC ... Chrono and Serge are just heroes by extension. It really all revolves around Janus and, especially, Schala) makes for a far more compellion conflict. And he has a very powerful opponent in the hero Janus - and yes, against all challengers the guy's a hero. In fact, I would say he is the most Classical hero I have seen in any RPG. No other one but Janus is so like the ancient heroes, he who bears many of the marking charactaristics (ie. isolation, struggle, and a certain violent streak many shared.)
A bit of a case, I suppose, might be made for Kefka. He actually is a far more successful villain than Sephiroth ever is - Lavos equals that mad clown, in that he does succeed... until those dratted Seven change what already happened. Anyway, one might make a good case for Kefka, as I said, but at his ultimate his power would not be anywhere near what the TD was approaching. Nor, for that matter, did Kefka have that cunning patience - he was a being acting far more on impulse and insanity, whilst Lavos... he was the clever one. Recall the bio-engineering evident? Lavos was sentient. The ethics of what he was doing can be discussed elsewhere, but the Dark Lord Lavos theory (which I began) gives him a more sinister edge than might sometimes be attributed. If that is taken into account, I know of no others who have his level of villainy. Not Kefka, not Sephiroth certainly, absolutely not Yu Yevon or Seymore (though arguably Yu Yevon had more success - a thousand year reign of power - than Sephiroth), not... um... wait... Ansem, no, not him either from what I know. I've only seen KH I, however. Ansem's not half-bad, but still a bit, how shall we say it... kiddish of a villain. In pure villainy Maleficent is, even as her name implies, more... malefic. She was always the best of all Disney villains. Anyway, I'm not really qualified to judge KH.
So, basically, my vote falls to the Infamous Immortal, Lavos.
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I'd say Lavos, with Kefka as a close second. I'd also throw Magus in the mix, but that's only if you count him as a villan...
CTFan
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I'd say Lavos, with Kefka as a close second. I'd also throw Magus in the mix, but that's only if you count him as a villan...
CTFan
Nah, Janus is a hero. Kato himself speaks of the 'noble character' of Janus, so he's a hero all right. Like I said, he is, in fact, nearer to the Classical idea of a hero (say, Herakles) than near well any other RPG hero I can think of. He is that interesting and rare figure who is so emotionally and spiritually powerful he can actually turn away from the 'dark side', to borrow Star Wars terminology. Basically, if anybody could suffer through something, it would be Janus.
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a toss up between Sephiroth and Kefka for me
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actually its the dude I posted. marche.
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actually its the dude I posted. marche.
ahh... i see now my comp never shows links to creative uncut so i didnt see my bad.
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No picture would appear, and I would ask you why you would think him. I do not even know who he is. What infamous actions are to his name, what villainy has he attempted and accomplished that would make him deserving of even a Fury's scorn? Is he a ravisher of worlds, a cunning and malefic will, as could be ascribed to Lavos?
And so, too, would I challenge any who say Sephiroth. What great evil did he accomplish? If anything he failed in his ambition, and his destruction came to nothing. A Cetra princess died... what of it? Ten thousand Zealots died when they disturbed the sleep of Lavos. If any are fit to rank near his dark glory it is only Kefka's madness... and madness it truly is! He was only driven by a ruined spirit, whilst Lavos retained command of his own. But both at least accomplished their ends - and yes, Lavos did, too, if not for Time's disfavour. Yet even Kefka cannot rival the power or infamy of Lavos, whose kind are the greatest foes of worlds themselves.
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In Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, the story is set up as such that you play the villain of sorts, the hero/antagonist, Marche, who, after being thrown into the world of Ivalice (which is later found to be of his friend Mewt's doing), embarks on a quest to destroy Ivalice (which has indeed manifested itself as a REAL world, rather than a fantasy realm) and eventually succeeds, returning the world to how it was before being manifested into Ivalice by magic.
In some sense, grey is correct in that, while we see Marche as a young lad trying to return the world to 'reality', everybody else sees him as the enemy because he's effectively trying to destroy the existence they know.
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In some regards this comes down to a matter of how you define “villain.” Not to sound esoteric, but it is exceedingly easy to weigh the various candidates to quite different standards. That having been said, the extra detail of “greatest, most successful” villain gives us a clear indication of the direction in which the topic creator desires this move forward. In other words, irrespective of our personal concept of what makes a villain, he’s asking the slightly different question of who was the best at it. Therefore, without offering my own definition of what a villain actually is, I’ll talk about who I think did the best job of it in the SE universe—or, rather, just the S universe, because I don’t think I’ve ever played any games from predecessor Enix.
I admit to a soft spot for evil characters in video games. Sometimes they are far more interesting, more intelligent, more ambitious, and more direct than their counterparts, and with their audacious plots they are singularly responsible for creating the entire story. Their fatal flaw is that they are always weighed down by the game writers with negative characteristics that inevitably cause them to lose in the end: shortsightedness, excessive cruelty, hubris, etc. Were these gratuitous failings swept clean of their charsheets, many of these villains would actually be closer to my personal definition of “hero,” inasmuch as I acknowledge the word at all, than the official, playable heroes.
Gestahl did a good job of being a villain, ruling the Empire for a long time, making it prosperous, succeeding in his conquests, and pursuing a singular plot to attain supreme magical power. He only failed by growing drunk on his power toward the end—and even then he might still have succeeded, were it not for the deus ex machine of him standing in the wrong place at the pivotal moment. Gestahl desired order and had a mindset decidedly more constructive than destructive. His vision of a world where the Empire was truly supreme is, perhaps, something to which many of us can relate when we reflect upon our own wishes for an ideal society. The fact that his top general, top scientist, and top Magitek Knight were all decent people also says something about the quality of his reign and administration. It is easy to look at the Empire as a symbol of depravity, corruption, and industrial decay…but these images, borrowed from the Japanese ethos, were the mark of every industrial society at the turn of the twentieth century…right down to the bawdy soldiers in the lower ranks of the military. The Empire was a much more realistic aspect of FF VI than we give it credit for, in whose absence the game would have been considerably less historic. I would therefore rate Gestahl as a very successful villain. Had he been more disciplined and less compulsive as his plot was finally coming to fruition, he might have gotten exactly what he wanted.
Magus was another successful villain. In fact, he did achieve his ambition, by allying with Crono & Co. and building a rapport with them—without ever truly becoming one of the good guys. In so doing, he also escaped any punishment for his considerable villainy, left an entire continent to wipe up from the aftermath of a long war, and singularly escaped the terrible fates of his entire family and Kingdom. So, for the price of some emotional scarring and the particularly painful lost of his sister, Magus succeeded about as wildly as any villain in a video game could ever hope.
Ack! The hour grows late, so I’ll cut it short here. I think I’ve gotten my point across. I do, however, want to throw in a (modest) word of support for Marche, for the reasons laid out already.
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I put it in simple terms: in terms of going complete badass to whip the shit out of his enemies, marche does it.
I mean look at what he does for the sake of "doing the right thing"
He betrays all his friends/clan members in a way bu wanting to find a way out of the world, and in the end, having his very guild support him in destorying their world. He took away the happiness of mewt and his crippled brother, not to mention the white haired girl (don't quite remember names right now.)
He sent his brother back to the wheelchair. He took away mewts mother, made his bad the same old bitch he was in the beginning. He made the girl lose her haircolor, and her clan as well.
He literally suceeded, without exception, to what he was trying to do. bring everybody back to their problems, instead of leaving them happy and content.
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I put it in simple terms: in terms of going complete badass to whip the shit out of his enemies, marche does it.
I mean look at what he does for the sake of "doing the right thing"
He betrays all his friends/clan members in a way bu wanting to find a way out of the world, and in the end, having his very guild support him in destorying their world. He took away the happiness of mewt and his crippled brother, not to mention the white haired girl (don't quite remember names right now.)
He sent his brother back to the wheelchair. He took away mewts mother, made his bad the same old bitch he was in the beginning. He made the girl lose her haircolor, and her clan as well.
He literally suceeded, without exception, to what he was trying to do. bring everybody back to their problems, instead of leaving them happy and content.
Jeez, all of a sudden, I'm not so sure I wanna finish that game anymore.
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I put it in simple terms: in terms of going complete badass to whip the shit out of his enemies, marche does it.
I mean look at what he does for the sake of "doing the right thing"
He betrays all his friends/clan members in a way bu wanting to find a way out of the world, and in the end, having his very guild support him in destorying their world. He took away the happiness of mewt and his crippled brother, not to mention the white haired girl (don't quite remember names right now.)
He sent his brother back to the wheelchair. He took away mewts mother, made his bad the same old bitch he was in the beginning. He made the girl lose her haircolor, and her clan as well.
He literally suceeded, without exception, to what he was trying to do. bring everybody back to their problems, instead of leaving them happy and content.
Jeez, all of a sudden, I'm not so sure I wanna finish that game anymore.
welll, you can beat it, but you can't get cid until you beat all 300 missions. at that point, why would you want to have cid though?
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Sephie, for sure =]
Nothing can beat the Madman Gone Crazy character :lee:
p.s.: oh yea, and he doesn't die =]
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Kefka, he actually succeded in destroying the world. Lavos also succeded, but he failed because the future changed with his death. At the end of FF6, you can clearly see that the world is still wrecked.
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Kefka, he actually succeded in destroying the world. Lavos also succeded, but he failed because the future changed with his death. At the end of FF6, you can clearly see that the world is still wrecked.
kefka never suceeded: there was still land, ocean, animal plants and monsters. He became near god, but like seperoth, he failed horribly at the end.
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Kefka (Final Fantasy VI) did not fail in destroying the world because destroying the world was never his real goal. He had a loftier (and crazier) goal: the destruction of hope itself. It can be said that in this he failed (if not for those pesky Returner kids! Kefka was a great villain because he had no conscience. He was mad as a hatter. He was also great because the irony of his character is that the power that drove him mad in the first place is the very power that he lusts for...It's good stuff.
Lavos (Chrono Trigger/Chrono Cross) is great because it's a mystery. We don't know exactly if it has a conscience or not. From my take, it's just like a planetary viral organism that feeds off of a planet's resources to spawn it's offspring to repeat the process elsewhere...This kind of villain is neat to be up against, especially when we're given the facts that Lavos does indeed destroy the world and comes just as, if not closer, to destroying hope than Kefka managed. I think all of these things makes Lavos a top-tier villain...
Dycedarg (Final Fantasy Tactics) did some pretty ****ed up things in Tactics and deserves to be up there w/Kefka & Lavos too, I think...But the one person who I always end up hating in Tactics is Algus...I normally end up making his final battle long and grueling (sometimes healing him just so I can put the pain on him some more)...Although I also do that w/Cloud when I get him to join up...8)
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Kefka. He was evil for evil's sake. I don't count Lavos as a villain. Either he is non-sentient (or at least, unintelligent) in which case he is beneath morality, or he is a god, in which case, he is above it.
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That largely depends on how you rank them. In order to get away from the creeping terror preying upon my mind right now, I'll write a long post about it.
Power
*Note: I do not know the capabilities of the villains of any Final Fantasy before VI, so I won't be including them.
This almost certainly falls to Lavos; the potentially strongest antagonist, Ultimecia, never gave us anything but her word that she was actually capable of assimilating the universe, and her effectiveness against Squall doesn't seem to hold up notions of her success. By contrast, Lavos himself is actually seen to have caused the K-T extinction event. We don't know how much damage he sustained in the process, but it seems relatively clear that no Final Fantasy antagonist in any form demonstrated onscreen could stand up to him, unless they managed to devise the same tactics that Crono's team used, and even then it's debatable. Deus, a dedicated planetary assault machine, probably comes in somewhere near the top. Kuja and Kefka actually fall to the bottom of the list; contrary to the claims of his fanboys, the World of Ruin was in no way, shape, or form effected under Kefka's own power. The World of Ruin was the sole creation of the imbalance of the Statues' power, and the Light of Judgment is never demonstrated to have such pervasive effects. In fact, its use is invariably quantified as vaporizing towns. By the end, Kefka is stated to have absorbed the full power of the Statues, but this is not demonstrated. This is no more effective than an average tactical nuke, and probably even less so considering the medieval-scale towns of FFVI's world. Kuja was also never demonstrated to actually have pulled an Alderaan on Terra. Instead, he destroyed all planetary structures in an unknown radius not by directly attacking them, but by sniping at their foundations, which any engineer would be hanged for designing. It could have been anywhere from the immediate area, which makes him about as effective as Kefka, to all the structures on the planet, which places him somewhere between Kefka and Sephiroth after taking a Lifestream bath.
In terms of potential, it again falls to Lavos. Chrono Cross' storyline literally cannot happen without the claims of his potential universe-consuming power being true; they're even backed by Belthasar, one of the most brilliant scientists and engineers who ever lived. Sephiroth has the potential to be one of the more powerful antagonists; his potential could range anywhere from planet-busting to actually being able to cause a supernova (the Super Nova attack is generally not taken as canon). Conceivably, Kefka would be next; if he did actually manage to absorb the Statues' power, he'd have abilities several times more powerful than those of Sin, whose power is a fixed entity right from the start. Kuja probably can't get much more powerful than he was at the end of FFIX; he was relying on a deus ex machina to destroy the multiverse.
Success
Lavos undoubtedly is the most successful. At any point when time travel is required to deal with the main villain, he's simply too strong to be comparable with villains who aren't in the same class. I would put Kefka next, since he's the only other villain that's succeeded for any measure of time with his primary goal. He isn't too powerful on analysis, but with the Statues having wrecked the world for him, he doesn't have to be. All that matters is that he's strong enough to be unassailable by anyone he's oppressing. For all of Sephiroth's hype, he doesn't actually achieve much success. He does succeed in crashing the world economy and probably killing a bunch of people, but economies can be rebuilt, and the number of people lost was not a major catastrophe on a global scale. Kuja was actually a failed experiment, so he can be said to be the weakest in terms of success; the only thing he really succeeded in doing was getting some people killed, without bringing about the kind of total war necessary for Darth Garland's pet project.
Impact
This is a completely subjective matter; it's almost impossible to definitively identify the best antagonist for a story perspective, since virtually all of them symbolize completely different traits and themes. Sephiroth is certainly the most iconic; other than Lavos, he's the only Square villain I know of who returned as the villain in a dedicated sequel, but popularity alone does not a good villain make. He's one of my personal Jeebuses, but I can't speak for everyone.
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Nicely said. I just want to reiterate what I said before about Sephiroth vs. Lavos. One of Sephiroth's greatest actions is seen as the killing of the Cetra princess Aeris. However, that action is more than equalled in what Lavos wreaks upon Zeal, the Queen of the kingdom, and in particularly Schala. If she is taken for the Chrono world what Aeris was for the FFVII one (and I think that's a fair equivalent), then Sephiroth is more direct and brute. Lavos, on the other hand, does not - at least in Cross - kill her, but rather assimilates with her, subjecting her to far more terrible fortunes than death. You see, in her death, Aeris still acts as Sephiroth's foil - the Holy prayer does succeed. But Schala... if not for her last resort in Kid, she became the very worst of evils, by Lavos' machinations.
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I put it in simple terms: in terms of going complete badass to whip the shit out of his enemies, marche does it.
I mean look at what he does for the sake of "doing the right thing"
He betrays all his friends/clan members in a way bu wanting to find a way out of the world, and in the end, having his very guild support him in destorying their world. He took away the happiness of mewt and his crippled brother, not to mention the white haired girl (don't quite remember names right now.)
He sent his brother back to the wheelchair. He took away mewts mother, made his bad the same old bitch he was in the beginning. He made the girl lose her haircolor, and her clan as well.
He literally suceeded, without exception, to what he was trying to do. bring everybody back to their problems, instead of leaving them happy and content.
You must of missed the point. Yes, Doned went back to the wheelchair. Yes, Mewt lost his mom. Yes, Ritz lost her hair color. Yes, Cid is a loser again. But the ending shows they over all their problems-Marche gained the confidence he needs to succeed in life, Mewt is no longer whiny and hurt over his dead mother and can fight back, Doned is no longer bitter about his life, Ritz accepted the beauty in her white hair and Cid is now no longer bothered about the death of his wife.
It's a game about learning how to get over problems and not escaping. Escape might make the problems get away, but that will never let you improve, never make you stronger. The journey in Ivalice taught Marche-tachi how to live and deal with problems. Marche is not an antagonist at all- he wanted to live his life without escaping. Marche is the most stable and smart of all the characters, better than even a man in his thirties or more. Marche sacrificed his own desires, he gave up on the comfort Ivalice granted him (Because it's not just Mewt who made Ivalice strong-it was Marche, Donend and Ritz as well) to deal with life's issues straight-on, and not escape. He gave up on his desires for Doned, remember? Marche sacrifices for those who matter.
As for the question- Uh, Sephiroth? With all due respect, if I were to see Kefka I'd likely laugh so hard one of my lungs would burst. If I were to see Sephiroth I'll get a stroke from the fear.
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OMFG!
I totally forgot about Guildenstern from Vagrant Story! He is at least in a draw against Sephie in terms of fuckedupness. I mean, the guy spends the whole game screwing around and manipulating other manipulators, cuts off Sydney's back (wtf man!) and somehow attaches it to himself just to kill his woman by throwing her off the top of the Great Cathedral in order to become a fucked up Demi-god, incarnation of the Dark and stuff :lee: AND he is one of the toughest final bosses ever :lee: Oh, and he goes and fucks up with Ashley's mind before the final battle as well. :lee: Damn Guildenstern :lee: :lee:
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Im surprissed no one spoke of the 10 Wise Men for Star Ocean 2. They destroyed a planet to bring themselves back into existence for crying out loud. How messed up was that.
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I put it in simple terms: in terms of going complete badass to whip the shit out of his enemies, marche does it.
I mean look at what he does for the sake of "doing the right thing"
He betrays all his friends/clan members in a way bu wanting to find a way out of the world, and in the end, having his very guild support him in destorying their world. He took away the happiness of mewt and his crippled brother, not to mention the white haired girl (don't quite remember names right now.)
He sent his brother back to the wheelchair. He took away mewts mother, made his bad the same old bitch he was in the beginning. He made the girl lose her haircolor, and her clan as well.
He literally suceeded, without exception, to what he was trying to do. bring everybody back to their problems, instead of leaving them happy and content.
You must of missed the point. Yes, Doned went back to the wheelchair. Yes, Mewt lost his mom. Yes, Ritz lost her hair color. Yes, Cid is a loser again. But the ending shows they over all their problems-Marche gained the confidence he needs to succeed in life, Mewt is no longer whiny and hurt over his dead mother and can fight back, Doned is no longer bitter about his life, Ritz accepted the beauty in her white hair and Cid is now no longer bothered about the death of his wife.
It's a game about learning how to get over problems and not escaping. Escape might make the problems get away, but that will never let you improve, never make you stronger. The journey in Ivalice taught Marche-tachi how to live and deal with problems. Marche is not an antagonist at all- he wanted to live his life without escaping. Marche is the most stable and smart of all the characters, better than even a man in his thirties or more. Marche sacrificed his own desires, he gave up on the comfort Ivalice granted him (Because it's not just Mewt who made Ivalice strong-it was Marche, Donend and Ritz as well) to deal with life's issues straight-on, and not escape. He gave up on his desires for Doned, remember? Marche sacrifices for those who matter.
As for the question- Uh, Sephiroth? With all due respect, if I were to see Kefka I'd likely laugh so hard one of my lungs would burst. If I were to see Sephiroth I'll get a stroke from the fear.
my mom thought seperoth was a gay villian who had "pretty eyelashes."
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Sephiroth holds me with much allure. Sephiroth has come to represent more than his simple villainy in my mind. I am strongly attracted to FF7 on virtue of the self-will of its characters. Everyone in the game seems to be in it for his or her own ambitions, and each is morally ambiguous. Sephiroth is at the top; he is the ultimate selfish person, and has been stated by Nomura to have the strongest will of any character. Like Rock Lee, he is completed motivated towards his own goals, no matter how huge or trivial they are. And like Rock Lee, he spares no moment in achieving them. He derives his pleasure completely from the actualization of his will. That is sublime, terrifying power. Consider a non-sentient animal. It is purely instinctual, and does exactly what it pleases. Bring humans into the mix; at different stages, they obey a variety of perceptions and beliefs. Now take Sephiroth. He has ascended to a new animal-like state; his mind is completely of one will -- his own. To shed away care for everyone and also one's own personal flaw and pleasure seeking to become a pure force of will -- that is strength. And One-Winged Angel does well to illustrate exactly how raging and mighty that can be.
But if we go with most successful in pure acts of villainy, it's either Kefka or Magus. Kefka did succeed in blowing the world to absolute hell, and enjoyed a full year of tyranny (as opposed to days or weeks in other quests). And as has been said earlier in this thread, Magus started a full-fledged war on his own race just to obtain power for his self-willed revenge against Lavos. He then managed to escape all the fate and justice wished upon him by allying with the heroes and succeeding in his goal. That's the kind of moral ambiguity that proves most interesting. Now that Magus's desire is sated, should he be punished? He will not be. His actions, self-will, and genius transcend what others would do to him. He may have killed thousands, but he helped save the infinite progeny of the human race by destroying Lavos. It's not that he has to do some act of good to tip the scales back towards being a good person -- it is that he has truly changed. Would you punish him after the fact?
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I think I'll go with Kefka.
Kefka was completely insane, and completely evil. Kefka had he own little laugh, that is so classic. The poisoning of Doma was one that fully showed me his evilness, and later on with his murdering of the emperor. He even won for a year. I just really enjoy the insane, evil villians.
Sephiroth would be #2. Did Sephiroth win? No. I don't judge how good a villian is too heavily on success. Sephiroth was a villian that you feared before you ever met him. Be it the bloody trail leading to the murdered president in the Shinra building, or the Midgard Serpent that was mangled and killed, and left to rot so you can see, to Cloud's flashbacks of his exploits, Sephiroth was a villian to be feared.
Lavos... Well, he was powerful. He did succeed for a time. But he didn't really have any personality, nor did he make you fear him. That's why I don't put him up top.
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Yes, I felt that way too. Seeing that spiked serpent blew me away; I played FF7 in 2005, remember, so I was not part of the original movement. Perhaps that will discredit fanboyism.
This has got to be the best illustration of Sephiroth, by someone named fevereon:
(http://cc.herograw.org/Zeality/Sephiroth__complete_by_fevereon.jpg)
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Now that Magus's desire is sated, should he be punished? He will not be. His actions, self-will, and genius transcend what others would do to him. He may have killed thousands, but he helped save the infinite progeny of the human race by destroying Lavos. It's not that he has to do some act of good to tip the scales back towards being a good person -- it is that he has truly changed. Would you punish him after the fact?
You forget, he CAN be punished! And as Magus sought vengeance on Lavos, others still seek vengeance on him....namely a little character known as Frog.
Lavos... Well, he was powerful. He did succeed for a time. But he didn't really have any personality, nor did he make you fear him. That's why I don't put him up top.
For a time? FOR A TIME?!?!? LAVOS SUCCEDED FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS! I think he deserves a bit more credit. To me, Lavos was terrifying; true, he may not have had a personality of his own, (or at least one that we could see from the outside,) but it was everything that he signified, and the things he caused on the surface because of that. He stood for EVERY ONE of the Seven Deadly Sins in his own way, and thus corrupted mankind for it, causing social havoc and mankind screwing itself over time and time again. Fear is a great weapon, and Lavos instilled more fear than any other SE villan just because he was there; because destruction was inevitable. That's more than Sephiroth ever did!
CTFan
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Well, remember that Frog sort of made shaky amends with Magus. In Radical Dreamers, this is confirmed when Magus does not answer when questioned if the former wielder of the Masamune were his sworn enemy. In Crimson Echoes we're using this to interesting effect.
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The story (or at least the story Z and I mostly put together) is heavily Magus-oriented. Me, I had half a mind to write him getting killed heroically in the end in a sort of Anakin Skywalker gesture as payment for his deeds. That's actually one of the most compelling acts of self-will in film history; the Emperor brainwashed him and kept him in thrall for a whole twenty years. Breaking out of that, even to save your own son, is probably the hardest thing Anakin ever had to do. I think it's fair to say that positive emotions can enable self-will just as well as or better than negative emotions. But I also think it takes self-will to realize when you've fucked up. Following that, it takes even more self-will to do something about it.
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For a time? FOR A TIME?!?!? LAVOS SUCCEDED FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS! I think he deserves a bit more credit. To me, Lavos was terrifying; true, he may not have had a personality of his own, (or at least one that we could see from the outside,) but it was everything that he signified, and the things he caused on the surface because of that. He stood for EVERY ONE of the Seven Deadly Sins in his own way, and thus corrupted mankind for it, causing social havoc and mankind screwing itself over time and time again. Fear is a great weapon, and Lavos instilled more fear than any other SE villan just because he was there; because destruction was inevitable. That's more than Sephiroth ever did!
Since when is 1999-2300 a million years?
How did Lavos instill fear into you? You see a video of Lavos, and you his power. The game gives you a good sense of how powerful it is. But fear it? Hell no. At every chance, Crono and co are trying to face it. Did you fear Lavos before you ever saw it? No. For all the player knew when they arrived in 2300ad, a Nuclear war happend. You didn't even know Lavos existed. And after you saw the video of Lavos' destruction, was there any fear there? No. You went hopping all over time for chances to face it. In Zeal, where there was a real presense of Lavos, did anyone there fear it? No, they thought they could use him!
Sephiroth as not as powerful, or as successful, but I don't grade villians on that. Before you saw Sephiroth, you heard of his exploits, and you see his rather bloody handy work. Lavos just really wasn't as fearful.
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Hated Kefka,
Despised Smithy,
Respected Lavos,
Feared Sephiroth.
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SEPHIROTH IS THE BEST SQUEENIX VILLAIN EVER!!!!
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This has got to be the best illustration of Sephiroth, by someone named fevereon:
(http://cc.herograw.org/Zeality/Sephiroth__complete_by_fevereon.jpg)
Really cool drawing :lee:
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And after you saw the video of Lavos' destruction, was there any fear there?
FUCK. YES.
I was afraid of Lavos the second I saw what he could do, me and every other remotely sane person who played the game. Sephiroth's initial impact isn't even close to comparable. He made it past Shinra's armies unchallenged and massacred a village. That says badass. It doesn't say overwhelmingly powerful. Lavos destroyed modern civilization singlehandedly in his base form. That says world-annihilating incomprehensibly ancient Lovecraftian hellspawn that absolutely nobody can do anything about. Helplessness is a key element in the exercise of terror; which one is it more sensible to be afraid of? I'd be willing to say that the only reason Crono didn't lay down arms immediately at the sight of such an implacable foe is that he's quite stupid in the intellectual sense of the word. If he had possessed even a modicum of intellect, he would have turned into Shinji the moment he was told that he and his party alone possessed the power to face down Lavos.
So yes, there damn well IS fear associated with Lavos, and a hell of a lot more than anything Sephiroth manages when you first see him. Sephiroth's been variously described as a tragic case of someone losing their reason to live, a complete psychopath, and even a delusional righteous avenger who's exacting punishment for the perceived wrongs of humanity, and he does eventually gain civilization-ending power, but at no point in the entirety of the FFVII canon does he have the sheer terroric impact of Lavos, including when he's Safer Sephiroth, whose star-destroying abilities are battle mechanics and therefore not canon. I don't know what bizarro style-over-substance-land you're living in, but in my world we judge foes based on their demonstrated capabilities.
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Hated Kefka,
Despised Smithy,
Respected Lavos,
Feared Sephiroth.
hate sephiroth
despised kefka
respected tonberry king
feared Absolute virtue.
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Spoiler Tag
I have to argue on the point that Kefka acomplished his goals. I certainly never heard him say that he wanted to live in a junk tower and shoot white lightning at people now and then. The only time in the entire game that we get a Kefka "mission statement" is at the end when he says he wants to kill every living thing on earth. And well, he doesn't even get that close.
Now Sepheroth, his goal is to crash a meteor into a planet and then absord the life energy that gathers around said crash point. Now let me tell you, that rock was inches away from hitin' the damn ground inches.
I digress, Lavos loses points in the personality department, and for me, thats a big blow. So I vote for Golbez from Final Fantasy IV. He has a deep enough character, and playing the retraslated version really gave me a better look at his comedic timing. He is both good and evil and Most Imporantly he is an excellent foil for the hero. And that my friends, is why they invented villians in the first place.
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Spoiler Tag
I have to argue on the point that Kefka acomplished his goals. I certainly never heard him say that he wanted to live in a junk tower and shoot white lightning at people now and then. The only time in the entire game that we get a Kefka "mission statement" is at the end when he says he wants to kill every living thing on earth. And well, he doesn't even get that close.
Now Sepheroth, his goal is to crash a meteor into a planet and then absord the life energy that gathers around said crash point. Now let me tell you, that rock was inches away from hitin' the damn ground inches.
I digress, Lavos loses points in the personality department, and for me, thats a big blow. So I vote for Golbez from Final Fantasy IV. He has a deep enough character, and playing the retraslated version really gave me a better look at his comedic timing. He is both good and evil and Most Imporantly he is an excellent foil for the hero. And that my friends, is why they invented villians in the first place.
golbez loses simply for having this line "Now I, golbez, Am going to knock you all down!"
what the fuck was that?
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Yes, I felt that way too. Seeing that spiked serpent blew me away; I played FF7 in 2005, remember, so I was not part of the original movement. Perhaps that will discredit fanboyism.
This has got to be the best illustration of Sephiroth, by someone named fevereon:
(http://cc.herograw.org/Zeality/Sephiroth__complete_by_fevereon.jpg)
(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/5655/1147814140463vw1.jpg) you can have your standard looking evil look. I'll be more scared of the gothic clown with the joker smile and god like power.
... THEY STARE FOREVER. INTO MY VERY SOUL!!
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also... this one kinda killed any fear of sepheroth I had.
winne the one winged angel > sepheroth.(http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/2038/20060331nb9.jpg)
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okay okay. last sepheroth fear destroying image for me.
(http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1761/1139331169448gb8.jpg)
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how... lame :lee:
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also... this one kinda killed any fear of sepheroth I had.
winne the one winged angel > sepheroth.(http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/2038/20060331nb9.jpg)
Those people corrupts the image of Sephiroth.
Sephiroth's been variously described as a tragic case of someone losing their reason to live, a complete psychopath, and even a delusional righteous avenger who's exacting punishment for the perceived wrongs of humanity, and he does eventually gain civilization-ending power
This is the reason why Sephiroth is feared & respected.
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also... this one kinda killed any fear of sepheroth I had.
winne the one winged angel > sepheroth.(http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/2038/20060331nb9.jpg)
Those people corrupts the image of Sephiroth.
uh... no shit? what did you think it was suppose to do?
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I was afraid of Lavos the second I saw what he could do, me and every other remotely sane person who played the game. Sephiroth's initial impact isn't even close to comparable. He made it past Shinra's armies unchallenged and massacred a village. That says badass. It doesn't say overwhelmingly powerful. Lavos destroyed modern civilization singlehandedly in his base form. That says world-annihilating incomprehensibly ancient Lovecraftian hellspawn that absolutely nobody can do anything about. Helplessness is a key element in the exercise of terror; which one is it more sensible to be afraid of? I'd be willing to say that the only reason Crono didn't lay down arms immediately at the sight of such an implacable foe is that he's quite stupid in the intellectual sense of the word. If he had possessed even a modicum of intellect, he would have turned into Shinji the moment he was told that he and his party alone possessed the power to face down Lavos.
That nobody can do anything about? Funny, seems that once Crono, Marle, and Lucca got past the inital shock of the Lavos video, they were fired up to take him down. Hell, they even did. And Crono and Marle may not be very inteligent, but Lucca sure as hell is. But "fear" was never a huge theme of any part in Chrono Trigger.
So yes, there damn well IS fear associated with Lavos, and a hell of a lot more than anything Sephiroth manages when you first see him. Sephiroth's been variously described as a tragic case of someone losing their reason to live, a complete psychopath, and even a delusional righteous avenger who's exacting punishment for the perceived wrongs of humanity, and he does eventually gain civilization-ending power, but at no point in the entirety of the FFVII canon does he have the sheer terroric impact of Lavos, including when he's Safer Sephiroth, whose star-destroying abilities are battle mechanics and therefore not canon. I don't know what bizarro style-over-substance-land you're living in, but in my world we judge foes based on their demonstrated capabilities.
I judge fear based on setting, mood, actions, visuals, etc. Setting, I would say they are on par. You got a bloody hallway with Sephiroth, and a massacred village, and you have a wasteland with Lavos. Mood I would say favor's Sephiroth more, because turning on the video with Lavos on really didn't have any tension building. Though, it was a bit more shock value seeing the giant porkupine come out. Actions, they both killed stuff. Visuals, I would give to Sephiroth. The Lavos video was impersonal. You see him shell the world. You didn't see people die, you didn't see buildings get knocked over. Sephiroth's was much more personal, as you didn't see vague destruction from a bird's eye view. You saw the dead people, you saw the burning houses. Much more dramatic buildup.
In that last respect, Kefka beats them both. When he distrupted the Statues, and caused the WoB to be destroyed, you saw both bird's eye view of destruction, and you saw induvisual people meet their ends.
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That nobody can do anything about?
Yeah, or didn't you catch the part where it takes a ridiculously specialized Act of God (TM) to even create the correct genes to deal with him? Obviously, "nobody" is an exaggeration. But their success was in large part determined by their genes and predestination, rather than through any particular achievement of their own.
I judge fear based on setting, mood, actions, visuals, etc.
Why? What's the point of fearing an impotent enemy?
Setting, I would say they are on par. You got a bloody hallway with Sephiroth, and a massacred village, and you have a wasteland with Lavos.
Do you even realize what you're saying? You're comparing a bloody hallway to the destruction of humanity.
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Hmm, since I just recently finished the first KH game, I thought Ansem was interesting in a very obvious Faust sort of way, but I wouldn't go so far as to say he was the best. Just Faust-themes interesting to me for the moment. Or something.
Always loved to hate Kefka. :D
And some of the moments dealing with Jenova/Sephiroth in FF7 gave me the chills, though I attribute this mostly to the good timing/how fitting the music was to certain scenes.
I didn't mind Kuja too much either, despite the entire thing where he pretty much just goes SSj4 near the end, and the fact that with how he dresses, I almost thought he was a she at first... *coughs*
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Oh yeah, there is the whole Organization XIII from Kingdom Hearts II as well =]
They aren't really terrifying nor anything like it, but still I somehow think of 'em as a bunch of badass motherfuckers, in a good way. :lee:
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Do you even realize what you're saying? You're comparing a bloody hallway to the destruction of humanity.
I saw dead, bloodied bodies with Sephiroth. I saw grass and mountains get shot at with Lavos. Lavos's attack was much less personal, you didn't even see anyone die. The Lavos video was supposed to make you think he's powerful, and hell it works. The Sephiroth scenes is supposed to initmidate you. And they do that.
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I really don't feel intimidated by a video game character.
Additionally, just because something is impersonal doesn't mean it isn't a more horrific crime.
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The impersonal aspect of Lavos' attack is precisely why it's terrifying. It serves as excellent foreshadowing for his eventual revelation as the progenitor of humanity, and the nihilism that ultimately comprises his character. Such a revelation is much more terrifying than a few dead bodies. If you want good dead body horror, watch Saw.
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Dreamers, this is confirmed when Magus does not answer when questioned if the former wielder of the Masamune were his sworn enemy. In Crimson Echoes we're using this to interesting effect.
I don't take his silence to mean that they're friends or anything. He used Chrono & Co. to get to Lavos just like he used the Mystics. While they had a truce, I don't think they were friends or anything. I suppose Magus may understand, to some extent, Glenn's wanting for vengeance, but the fact is that Glenn's was unjustified from the beginning...Magus was after Lavos, thus making him a hero, no matter what his reasons.
As for Ol' Sephy-Head...Over the years, I've lost most of the minute respect I may or may not have had for him for one simple fact: Whenever I talk to someone or see someone talking about him, they always, always say something different than the last person I talked to...The whole "who and where Seph was and who was controlling what" thing just really annoying...I'll have to force myself to play it again to gain a new perspective of it all, I suppose...
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Well you also have to take into account the world in which the game is set. Chrono Trigger is based on time travel, so even though Lavos destroyed the "future", you had a way to change it, which made his exploits less damaging. There was always a chance to change it. But with Sephiroth in the FF world, there was no time travel. You went each day knowing that you couldn't change the past. There was no going back and saving Aeris, no going back to prevent sephiroth from even coming into existance. Just think if you weren't even given an option to revive Crono.
So to easily put it, picture yourself in both worlds. Would you be more afraid in CT world going up against Lavos or going up against sephiroth in FF world. Me personally, if I wanted to be in the safest world of the two, I would pick CT because of the time travel and knowing that also Lavos was even scheduled to kill me in "my" lifetime. But sephiroth was trying to destroy the world in my life time if I was one of the characters in FF. So to me, he was the ultimate villain of the two. Time travel plays an important role in watering down Lavos power. If you took out time travel, Lavos would most definitely be the ultimate villain.
And how come no one is talking about the Ten Wise men from Star Ocean 2. They wiped out an entire planet with millions of people on them. Did anybody play Star Ocean 2. To me they should be in the top 5 in ultimate villains.
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I couldn't play SOII because I'm in the UK, but I'm gonna download it, cause I loved SOIII.
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Its an incredible game. The ten wise men were hard as hell.
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But come on people, what are you more scared of doing, walking through a wasteland or following a fucking blood trail?
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But come on people, what are you more scared of doing, walking through a wasteland or following a fucking blood trail?
Come on, look who you're asking. These guys get scared when they try to open one of those tubes of biscuit dough.
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But come on people, what are you more scared of doing, walking through a wasteland or following a fucking blood trail?
EXACTLY. Thank you, someone that understand's why Sephiroth was fearful.
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New poll. Sephiroth vs. Lavos.
I say lavos ansem sephiroth!
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But come on people, what are you more scared of doing, walking through a wasteland or following a fucking blood trail?
EXACTLY. Thank you, someone that understand's why Sephiroth was fearful.
a wasteland actually, the desolation, the sheer amount of corpses, the destruction of the surrounding area. are you honestly gonna tell me your not gonna be more scarred of something that fucked up the ENTIRE world, then a couple of death solders?
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Come now, anybody can see that he's just arguing to argue now. His point is now moot, so he'll consider any option he can to attempt to give his theory some merit.
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But come on people, what are you more scared of doing, walking through a wasteland or following a fucking blood trail?
Come on, look who you're asking. These guys get scared when they try to open one of those tubes of biscuit dough.
I dunno, biscuit dough can kick your ass if you don't do it right. It's happened to my parents, who on a completely unrelated note are criminally stupid.
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But come on people, what are you more scared of doing, walking through a wasteland or following a fucking blood trail?
EXACTLY. Thank you, someone that understand's why Sephiroth was fearful.
a wasteland actually, the desolation, the sheer amount of corpses, the destruction of the surrounding area. are you honestly gonna tell me your not gonna be more scarred of something that fucked up the ENTIRE world, then a couple of death solders?
I don't recall seeing a single corpse walking around in 2300ad in CT. For all I knew when I first got there, there was a nuclear war or something. Not uncommon in Sci-fi genres, so I'm not particularly disturbed by it.
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I don't recall seeing a single corpse walking around in 2300ad in CT. For all I knew when I first got there, there was a nuclear war or something. Not uncommon in Sci-fi genres, so I'm not particularly disturbed by it.
And that is why we don't want Republicans to run the government... </off topic>
Back on topic, I can see there're not many Gestahl boosters around here. Le Sigh! A Lavos-Kefka-Sephiroth threesome is just so predictable. I guess they're the most successful villains in that people still talk about 'em with such reverence even today.
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Actually, I agree with you concerning Gestahl.
He kept up his plan for a long number of years and actually tasted success in some sense.
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But come on people, what are you more scared of doing, walking through a wasteland or following a fucking blood trail?
EXACTLY. Thank you, someone that understand's why Sephiroth was fearful.
a wasteland actually, the desolation, the sheer amount of corpses, the destruction of the surrounding area. are you honestly gonna tell me your not gonna be more scarred of something that fucked up the ENTIRE world, then a couple of death solders?
Of course. You walk in a completely doomed land, you think "Oh crap, what a fucking smell of smoke". Then you go follow a blood trail and you thing "Omigosh, I'm certainly going to get my ass killed".
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But come on people, what are you more scared of doing, walking through a wasteland or following a fucking blood trail?
Come on, look who you're asking. These guys get scared when they try to open one of those tubes of biscuit dough.
I dunno, biscuit dough can kick your ass if you don't do it right. It's happened to my parents, who on a completely unrelated note are criminally stupid.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!1 That made me laugh. yeah it could. (Biscuit dough can kick your ass if you don't do it right).
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Of course. You walk in a completely doomed land, you think "Oh crap, what a fucking smell of smoke". Then you go follow a blood trail and you thing "Omigosh, I'm certainly going to get my ass killed".
Which begs the question, since you think you're gonna get your ass killed, why are you following the blood trail in the first place?
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Of course. You walk in a completely doomed land, you think "Oh crap, what a fucking smell of smoke". Then you go follow a blood trail and you thing "Omigosh, I'm certainly going to get my ass killed".
Which begs the question, since you think you're gonna get your ass killed, why are you following the blood trail in the first place?
Because the game guide tells you to do so :lee:
Damn those bastards!
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Of course. You walk in a completely doomed land, you think "Oh crap, what a fucking smell of smoke". Then you go follow a blood trail and you thing "Omigosh, I'm certainly going to get my ass killed".
Which begs the question, since you think you're gonna get your ass killed, why are you following the blood trail in the first place?
Because the game guide tells you to do so :lee:
Damn those bastards!
What would you do in real life? Wastland or trial of blood?
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You know, what if Sephiroth and Lavos worked together? Like Sephiroth summons Lavos and Lavos destroys the world for him!
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Of course. You walk in a completely doomed land, you think "Oh crap, what a fucking smell of smoke". Then you go follow a blood trail and you thing "Omigosh, I'm certainly going to get my ass killed".
Which begs the question, since you think you're gonna get your ass killed, why are you following the blood trail in the first place?
Because the game guide tells you to do so :lee:
Damn those bastards!
What would you do in real life? Wastland or trial of blood?
I'd do both things, see what kind of experience they pass me and then I'd come back and answer this question of yours =]
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Nightmare's got something there. Sephiroth summons Lavos and it's like a you have to go through the pet to get to the owner type deal.
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If Sephiroth and Lavos were working together, I might trust the combined strength of every X-Man ever to be able to deal with them.
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You know, what if Sephiroth and Lavos worked together? Like Sephiroth summons Lavos and Lavos destroys the world for him!
why would lavos work for sephiroth? he be like magus, only summoning him cause he thought he could take him on if he tried something.
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If Lavos didn't obey, Sephiroth will just kick his ass until he does.
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If Magus couldn't do it, Ol' Sephy-head certainly couldn't. Sadly, Sephiroth's Masamune isn't made of Dreamstone...So he'd probably get his ass kicked by the Mammon Machine...Supposing he lived through the Black Omen & Zeal...:lol: But I suppose that's besides the point...You don't get to just "summon" Lavos...You just get to piss him off enough to make him shoot up your home and maybe fling your ass through a time gate...That's not even to mention how fucked Sephiroth would be if he tried anything against Lavos as the Devourer of Time...
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If Lavos didn't obey, Sephiroth will just kick his ass until he does.
What universe do you live in? Lavos would assrape Sephiroth. Even if you let Sephiroth become Safer Sephiroth, Lavos would just become the Devourer of Time and nothing's changed.
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If Lavos didn't obey, Sephiroth will just kick his ass until he does.
What universe do you live in? Lavos would assrape Sephiroth. Even if you let Sephiroth become Safer Sephiroth, Lavos would just become the Devourer of Time and nothing's changed.
Ah, but Sephiroth has clones.
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Yeah, and they rule. Kadaj is an interesting villain. I wanted more Yazoo focus, though.
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But come on people, what are you more scared of doing, walking through a wasteland or following a fucking blood trail?
See this is what I mean. I wouldn't be scared of a wasteland because of the fact that I could just go back to "my own time" where there wasn't a waste land. See time travel really waters down Lavos when compared to sephiroth. Okay a wastleand, where are the bodies? Where is the blood? All you see is hungry people. Does that strike fear in you? No. Why? Because its not your time! You could go back home and ignore what you saw because that was 1000+ years in the future! But if you were following Sephiroth, there is no going back. He was planning to destroy the planet right then and there. Not 1000 yrs from now. So in my opinion, Sephiroth is the ultimate villain. He strikes fear in your heart and you knew that you "had" to face him to survive, not go back home and climb into bed.
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Who cares if he has clones? They're ineffectual clones that can't do anything except walk around chanting his name. Even if they could, unless they numbered in the hundreds of thousands or more it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference. We're talking about a power differential of orders of magnitude between the two.
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All you see is hungry people. Does that strike fear in you? No. Why?
Because you see all the starving people in Africa. :lol:
Plus it takes longer for Lavos to destroy the world then it is for Sephiroth.
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Ol' Sephy-head has clones...but Lavos has Spawn...Not to mention Lavos is bound to have a parent somewhere, no? Take that Jenova! :?
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All you see is hungry people. Does that strike fear in you? No. Why?
Because you see all the starving people in Africa. :lol:
Plus it takes longer for Lavos to destroy the world then it is for Sephiroth.
wrong: it took lavos ten seconds to destory the world after he was done leeching from it.
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Have any of you seen the FF7 movie? Kadaj kicks ass. Back to argument. If Cloud had a tough time whoopin Sephiroth ,and Cloud has to be in someway stronger than Crono, wouldn't that make Sephiroth stronger than lavos. He could just whoop him up with one of his bad-ass meteors. What was that move he pulls in KH that drops your health to 1. He could do some shit like that.
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All you see is hungry people. Does that strike fear in you? No. Why?
Because you see all the starving people in Africa. :lol:
Plus it takes longer for Lavos to destroy the world then it is for Sephiroth.
wrong: it took lavos ten seconds to destory the world after he was done leeching from it.
I rest my point, Lavos needs time (as in years/centuries) to destroy the world, while it takes at least seven days to destroy the world.
Which brings me to my next SE villians, The Rudras from Treasure of the Rudras. They destroyed the dominant race every 4000 years, and you only had 16 days to save the human race.
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They're a bunch of fuckin shit headed dildo-brains. I've never heard of the Rudras. Must be a challenging game.
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Most Japan-only games are hard, that's one of the reasons why they don't get released.
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How did you get the game. Did you take your Gundam and go to Japan?
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All you see is hungry people. Does that strike fear in you? No. Why?
Because you see all the starving people in Africa. :lol:
Plus it takes longer for Lavos to destroy the world then it is for Sephiroth.
wrong: it took lavos ten seconds to destory the world after he was done leeching from it.
I rest my point, Lavos needs time (as in years/centuries) to destroy the world, while it takes at least seven days to destroy the world.
Which brings me to my next SE villians, The Rudras from Treasure of the Rudras. They destroyed the dominant race every 4000 years, and you only had 16 days to save the human race.
wrong again. lavos didn't need time for anything: its proven he can do shit when he's pissed off. You can fight him whenever in chrono trigger, save 65 mil.
He doesn't need time, he just needs time to get a good, RIPE meal.
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Didn't he blow the place to hell when he landed? Well... didn't he? And what about Zeal? Didn't he blow the shit out of it? I'm agreeing with Grey. If he's mad he can do some crazy shit.
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It is clearly stated that Lavos remains on the planet to harvest DNA. This is his ONLY apparent purpose in Chrono Trigger.
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Why must Clod be stronger than Crono? Where Crono is as powerful as the magic he wields, Clod is only as strong as the Materia he happens to have equipped (and the mastery of said Materia)...Clod is basically using the Chrono Cross system...>_>
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How did you get the game. Did you take your Gundam and go to Japan?
coughcoughromscoughhackwheeze
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Why must Clod be stronger than Crono? Where Crono is as powerful as the magic he wields, Clod is only as strong as the Materia he happens to have equipped (and the mastery of said Materia)...Clod is basically using the Chrono Cross system...>_>
No longer is he a fluffy thing in the sky, but a dirtball on the ground.
....I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.
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I totally didn't understand what you meant for the longest time...I meant "clod" in the more traditional, "he's a clumsy bastard" sense...eh? eh?
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I totally didn't understand what you meant for the longest time...I meant "clod" in the more traditional, "he's a clumsy bastard" sense...eh? eh?
Yeah, heheh.
Cloud seems to be hated everywhere I go for some reason.
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Oh, it's become popular now to hate him and the game he's from...I think it's because people found out I didn't like them and want to be cool like me...8)
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I totally didn't understand what you meant for the longest time...I meant "clod" in the more traditional, "he's a clumsy bastard" sense...eh? eh?
Yeah, heheh.
Cloud seems to be hated everywhere I go for some reason.
I don't like emo bitches. I like people like Kid, tough yet supple. :3.... *gets lost in thoughts* supple.
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Cloud had enough justification to be moody and unsettled. His being titanically flawed made his determination and self-will that much more convincing and admirable.
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How did you get the game. Did you take your Gundam and go to Japan?
coughcoughromscoughhackwheeze
Oh shit. That better not be contagious.
Great.... coughcoughOcoughcoughKcoughAcoughYcough....... *passes out*
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Spoiler Tag
I have to argue on the point that Kefka acomplished his goals. I certainly never heard him say that he wanted to live in a junk tower and shoot white lightning at people now and then. The only time in the entire game that we get a Kefka "mission statement" is at the end when he says he wants to kill every living thing on earth. And well, he doesn't even get that close.
Now Sepheroth, his goal is to crash a meteor into a planet and then absord the life energy that gathers around said crash point. Now let me tell you, that rock was inches away from hitin' the damn ground inches.
I digress, Lavos loses points in the personality department, and for me, thats a big blow. So I vote for Golbez from Final Fantasy IV. He has a deep enough character, and playing the retraslated version really gave me a better look at his comedic timing. He is both good and evil and Most Imporantly he is an excellent foil for the hero. And that my friends, is why they invented villians in the first place.
golbez loses simply for having this line "Now I, golbez, Am going to knock you all down!"
what the fuck was that?
Yo, homeboy. You're thinking of Garland, not Golbez
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Golbez was a good, classic villian. I liked him, and his 4 Fiends of Elements. Rubicant was really... Unique, I guess you could say. What other boss restores your health before you fight it?
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Every FF game seems to have a villain like that - they're not really the 'evil' type, but they're you're enemy anyway. Like General Leo, in FFVI.
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I totally didn't understand what you meant for the longest time...I meant "clod" in the more traditional, "he's a clumsy bastard" sense...eh? eh?
So I take it you simply capitalized it to underline how important it is that he is a clod of a Cloud? =P
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Golbez was a good, classic villian. I liked him, and his 4 Fiends of Elements. Rubicant was really... Unique, I guess you could say. What other boss restores your health before you fight it?
Weren't the Four Fiends reused from an earlier FF? Or were they reused in FFV? Something like that...I know that they were used more than once (with one or two changed)...Whatever...Sinistrals>Four Fiends...lol
So I take it you simply capitalized it (Clod) to underline how important it is that he is a clod of a Cloud? =P
Nope, just like how I call him Ol' Sephy Head, Clod gets called that because I refuse to call him by his "real" name because he's an idiot and I hate him...he's on par w/my hatred for Yuffie...Damn you FFVII! Damn you and your unlikable characters (except for Vincent)!
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Damn dude how could you hate The Great Ninja Yuffie.
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Good point V_T... Did Lufia rip off FFIV? Who the hell made Lufia anyway?
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Damn dude how could you hate The Great Ninja Yuffie.
Because the FF series's great ninja is Shadow (FFVI)! Or at least Edge (FFIV)...Yuffie was hardly a ninja at all...
Who the hell made Lufia anyway?
Lufia & the Fortress of Doom (SNES) - Developed by Neverland, Published by Taito
Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals (SNES) - Developed by Neverland, Published by Taito (JP)/Natsume (NA)/Nintendo (EU)
Lufia: The Legend Returns (GBC) - Developed by Neverland, Published by Taito (JP), Natsume (NA), Ubisoft (EU)
Lufia: The Ruins of Lore (GBA) - Developed by Neverland, Published by Taito (JP), Atlus (NA)
Ta-da! Go Answers.com/Wikipedia!
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Who the hell made Lufia anyway?
Ta-da! Go Answers.com/Wikipedia!
[/quote]
Yay. That site is like the whole knowledgeable Internet crushed up and put into one place.
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Why must Clod be stronger than Crono? Where Crono is as powerful as the magic he wields, Clod is only as strong as the Materia he happens to have equipped (and the mastery of said Materia)...Clod is basically using the Chrono Cross system...>_>
I don't think anyone ever said such a thing. In all likelihood, the opposite is true. On a related note:
Oh, it's become popular now to hate him and the game he's from...I think it's because people found out I didn't like them and want to be cool like me...Cool
Seriously, get the fuck over yourself. You're not cool, you're not "deep", you're not particularly intelligent, and you have no reason whatsoever to even suggest that people should want to be like you. I don't care that it's a joke. It's spam, and it isn't even funny spam. It's worthless, trite shit. You will shut the fuck up, and you will do it NOW.
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Ouch...I don't think I've ever seen you get mad like that before, Hadriel. Final Fantasy is a touchy subject out here in the great world of intarweb foryms. Don't take V's comments too personally; being irreverent is just his style.
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Why must Clod be stronger than Crono? Where Crono is as powerful as the magic he wields, Clod is only as strong as the Materia he happens to have equipped (and the mastery of said Materia)...Clod is basically using the Chrono Cross system...>_>
I don't think anyone ever said such a thing. In all likelihood, the opposite is true. On a related note:
Oh, it's become popular now to hate him and the game he's from...I think it's because people found out I didn't like them and want to be cool like me...Cool
Seriously, get the fuck over yourself. You're not cool, you're not "deep", you're not particularly intelligent, and you have no reason whatsoever to even suggest that people should want to be like you. I don't care that it's a joke. It's spam, and it isn't even funny spam. It's worthless, trite shit. You will shut the fuck up, and you will do it NOW.
Dude, don't ever question my "god". (Real God, Please Don't Punish Me, It's just a website and I don't really mean it.) V IS cool. I don't like Clod any more.
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Ouch...I don't think I've ever seen you get mad like that before, Hadriel. Final Fantasy is a touchy subject out here in the great world of intarweb foryms. Don't take V's comments too personally; being irreverent is just his style.
I'm just bitter this week. I don't even know why. I just feel like kicking the shit out of someone.
Maybe it has something to do with the coke fiends I met last night. I hope the cops got their dumb asses.
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Your aquaintance with these so called "coke fiends" does not give you the rights to degrade Vs coolness. Although you had a rough night it does not mean you can hurt others. WTF am I saying. Beat who ever stands in your way. Just not V_Translanka.
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Golbez and General Leo are NOTHING alike. :shock:
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Golbez and General Leo are NOTHING alike. :shock:
Who said that?
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Seriously, get the fuck over yourself. You're not cool, you're not "deep", you're not particularly intelligent, and you have no reason whatsoever to even suggest that people should want to be like you. I don't care that it's a joke. It's spam, and it isn't even funny spam. It's worthless, trite shit. You will shut the fuck up, and you will do it NOW.
O_o Okay...I know I'm not cool...that was the point of the joke...It was so ludicrous of me to think of myself as cool because of the fact that everyone knows that I am not...not to mention the rediculous suppositions I made...I know it's not a very good joke (but what jokes that I make are?)...And honestly, I don't even dislike FFVII that much...it's far too faded in my memory...I just remember not liking Clod & the Yuffster...Huh...that's a goodie...I never made a lil nick for Yuffie...So, sorry if I offended your greater sensibilities...I know no boundries and no morals. I am a horrible person who deserves to be tortured, burned, and peeled w/a potato peeler. And for that, I apologize, because I think you are cool.
And I'm totally weirded out by Matt Shadows defending me...I didn't spam all 2000 of these posts, y'know! >_> Mostly...I dont' think...
As for topics for the topic's sake...I think that the main villain in BoF3 was pretty interesting...although I guess it's more or less the same in all of the BoF games? Man, I need to get through 2...and maybe I should replay 1...*shrugs* It was an interesting take...And the whole Teepo thing was interesting too...and, yes, I only just now realized that BoF was Capcom...*dunce*
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Ouch...I don't think I've ever seen you get mad like that before, Hadriel. Final Fantasy is a touchy subject out here in the great world of intarweb foryms. Don't take V's comments too personally; being irreverent is just his style.
That is true. From whether or not Cloud (Clod?) is masculine or just emo, to who's going to bang Rinoa first, Final Fantasy creates war amongst people.
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It had nothing to do with Final Fantasy. It had more to do with unfunny jokes.
I swear I've somehow inherited my girlfriend's period. That makes me wonder if periods can be sexually transmitted.
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Are your male parts bleeding? or are you just PMSin'
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Golbez and General Leo are NOTHING alike. :shock:
Who said that?
After I said a post calling Golbez a good, classic villan, you said "Every FF game seems to have a villain like that - they're not really the 'evil' type, but they're you're enemy anyway. Like General Leo, in FFVI."
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General Leo's Exception apparently holds for every game. Hell, sometimes you even get them in your party, if only briefly. Then again, for every General Leo there's a Reeve Tuesti.
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I really don't see the appeal in this whole Lavos Fetish going around in the Compendium. He isn't cool. Though he has a whole mysterious aura, that doesn't really make him a good villain. He strikes me as a parasite, a blob. Nothing else. He doesn't strike me as an awesome, emotion driven, personality filled character. But that is just me. Kefka was an awesome boss, as was Kuja. Ultimecia was pretty crap too, but her whole "ball of light instead of a face" thing was awesome. The greatest villain was, undoubtedly, Bahamut in FF8 (thought he might not be considered an enemy by some). His whole "we are more scared of you than you of us" makes you wonder...what sissy dragons.
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Ouch...I don't think I've ever seen you get mad like that before, Hadriel. Final Fantasy is a touchy subject out here in the great world of intarweb foryms. Don't take V's comments too personally; being irreverent is just his style.
That is true. From whether or not Cloud (Clod?) is masculine or just emo, to who's going to bang Rinoa first, Final Fantasy creates war amongst people.
Very agreed. Just play the games, enjoy them, and don't argue. That's what a lot of people need to be told.
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Ouch...I don't think I've ever seen you get mad like that before, Hadriel. Final Fantasy is a touchy subject out here in the great world of intarweb foryms. Don't take V's comments too personally; being irreverent is just his style.
That is true. From whether or not Cloud (Clod?) is masculine or just emo, to who's going to bang Rinoa first, Final Fantasy creates war amongst people.
Very agreed. Just play the games, enjoy them, and don't argue. That's what a lot of people need to be told.
I'm not saying we shouldn't argue. (Goodness gracious; do you even read my posts?!) Games can be a serious thing; they're not simply mundane entertainment. They are an art form, a medium of self-expression, a vehicle for the communication of ideas...they can have a deep impact on our lives!
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Right on Lord J, games are an artform, as much as movies or music is. However, games like...oh, NARC don't help our cause.
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Funny, no one mentioned Krelian yet…
Hard to pick just one villain though. There were so may I truly enjoyed going up against, and for so many reasons. If I had to narrow it down to the top few, I think it would have to go a little something like this:
Most Potential: Xehanort
Those not wanting aspects of KH2 spoiled for them would be wise to skip this one
A newcomer to the S-E universe, Xehanort is fascinating to me due the fact that we’ve fought aspects of him in three KH games (his Heartless in KH1, his shadow in KH: CoM and his Nobody in KH2) now, and we still know next to nothing about him. And though he has brought the worlds into chaos twice and played not one, not two, not three, but four keybearers into doing his will, the World of Light has yet to deal with the actual man himself. Some might consider it a bit of a copout that Square has used him three times now, but I cant shake the feeling that they are building to something truly epic with Xehanort, and I cant wait to see what it is.
Ok, its safe now.
Most Successful: Lavos
This one is a no brainer. Lavos didn’t almost destroy the world (like say, Sephiroth) didn’t brag about its lofty goal and ultimately unattainable goal (Ultimecia), didn’t pine for a power that would eventually destroy it (Gestahl), and was not the puppet of some greater mind or ’higher purpose’ (Golbez, Sin, Eve, Sephiroth’s forgettable clones from Advent Children), and was beholden to no force greater than itself to accomplish its goals (Classic Garland, Kuja) Where other villains talk, posture, and scheme, Lavos just kept its extraterrestrial mouth shut and ended the human (and demi-human) race once they had served its purpose. It won. This is not speculation or prophecy. It is history. It happened. It was not something that could be prevented by any means… save for time travel.
Though an argument can be made for the Time Devourer becoming even greater threat eventually, all I remember him doing was casting a bunch of powerful status-affecting elements, making him about as big a threat as Necron really. When it comes to actually getting the business of evil done, the TD was a disappointment. So lets just stick with Lavos.
Most Evil: Kefka
The Original Wicked Clown. His garbled, 16-but laughter will follow me to my dying day. He set fire to a castle to find one woman. He poisoned a kingdom because it was faster. He committed whole genocide against the Espers. He killed the emperor out of convenience. He re-arranged the face of the planet, killing who know how many people just because. Lavos may have gotten more done, and yes Kefka eventually lost. But the insanity! The complete lack of morals! That outfit! Evil in its most pure, crazy form.
Honorable Mentions:
Most “Classic”: Golbez.
Most Overrated: Sephiroth.
Yes he was good, but not as good as everyone makes him out to be. And for the love of Mog, can we please keep him out of KH3? How many times do I have to kill him, really? Ballpark figure? Anyone?
Necrosaro (DW IV)
The idea that he becomes, for all intents and purposes, the Devil by using the Secret of Evolution just tickles me for some reason. The fact that he made the transformation because of a girl makes me laugh out loud.
Deus
God is dead! And I killed him! Nuff said.
Worse Villian: Carltron
No. Just, no.
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Most Overrated: Sephiroth.
Yes he was good, but not as good as everyone makes him out to be. And for the love of Mog, can we please keep him out of KH3? How many times do I have to kill him, really? Ballpark figure? Anyone?
I say replace him with Magus - Sehpiroth's had his run. Don't think SE would agree with me, though.
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Magus in KH3 would make me crap my pants.
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Magus in KH3 would make me crap my pants.
I shall use that information to stun you in the midst of robbing your house.
*harp music, bubbly daydream outline*
Josh: This is a stick-up! Give me all your loot!
Sentenal: Stuff it! Ima exercise my second amendment rights on yo' ass!
Josh: Oh, what's this? I hear Magus is gonna be in KH3.
Sentenal: Oh, crap!
*harp music, outline disappears*
Then again, my plan might backfire if your wallet is still in your pants at the time. I don't think I'd want to steal it then.
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Pretty much any SE character from any series other than FF in KH3 would be welcome. Expect Chu-chu. God, I hated Chu-chu.
Magus would be awesome indeed. But you know who would be better? Id.
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Right on Lord J, games are an artform, as much as movies or music is. However, games like...oh, NARC don't help our cause.
Do not say bad things about NARC!!11!!1!!!! >:|
That DVD can fly like a sparrow!
What, wasn't that what the game was all about?
p.s. bad joke >.>
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Warning! Spoilers ahead!
The crazy clown dude from DQVIII (What's his name, Doulmagus? I think I spelled his name wrong.)
He was really creepy, and plus the fact that no matter how hard you try, he always kills the people you try to save. Add the fact that he really isn't the evil guy, mix in some other people suddenly becoming evil and you get the real bad guy...
Resputain(Yeah yeah yeah, I know, misspelled)
He was a great evil that the original seven heroes sealed away. And now you have to defeat him yourself. blah blah blah, go play the game.
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Warning! Spoilers ahead!
The crazy clown dude from DQVIII (What's his name, Doulmagus? I think I spelled his name wrong.)
He was really creepy, and plus the fact that no matter how hard you try, he always kills the people you try to save. Add the fact that he really isn't the evil guy, mix in some other people suddenly becoming evil and you get the real bad guy...
Resputain(Yeah yeah yeah, I know, misspelled)
He was a great evil that the original seven heroes sealed away. And now you have to defeat him yourself. blah blah blah, go play the game.
Yeah, I guess Dhoulmagus is OK
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What about the Ten Wise Men? Nobody remembers them. Sad. But what about outside the SE universe? Who would be the #1 Villain of all time?
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What about the Ten Wise Men? Nobody remembers them. Sad. But what about outside the SE universe? Who would be the #1 Villain of all time?
I only know about Luther from the Star Ocean games, and he was only introduced at the very end.
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Magus in KH3 would make me crap my pants.
I shall use that information to stun you in the midst of robbing your house.
*harp music, bubbly daydream outline*
Josh: This is a stick-up! Give me all your loot!
Sentenal: Stuff it! Ima exercise my second amendment rights on yo' ass!
Josh: Oh, what's this? I hear Magus is gonna be in KH3.
Sentenal: Oh, crap!
*harp music, outline disappears*
Then again, my plan might backfire if your wallet is still in your pants at the time. I don't think I'd want to steal it then.
That made me 'lol'
A CT or CC of any type being in Kingdom Hearts 3 would be completely awesome. Chrono Trigger is popular enough, so they might have a slight, slight chance. To bad the guy making them only likes using character he created. But maybe he will include someone, like he did Setzer or Vivi.
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Magus in KH3 would make me crap my pants.
I shall use that information to stun you in the midst of robbing your house.
*harp music, bubbly daydream outline*
Josh: This is a stick-up! Give me all your loot!
Sentenal: Stuff it! Ima exercise my second amendment rights on yo' ass!
Josh: Oh, what's this? I hear Magus is gonna be in KH3.
Sentenal: Oh, crap!
*harp music, outline disappears*
Then again, my plan might backfire if your wallet is still in your pants at the time. I don't think I'd want to steal it then.
That made me 'lol'
A CT or CC of any type being in Kingdom Hearts 3 would be completely awesome. Chrono Trigger is popular enough, so they might have a slight, slight chance. To bad the guy making them only likes using character he created. But maybe he will include someone, like he did Setzer or Vivi.
Too bad Kingdom Hearts is the combination of Disney and Final Fantasy characters.
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Yeah, Chrono's too cool for it.
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Yeah, Chrono's too cool for it.
Plus, Chrono characters aren't whores.
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Yeah, Chrono's too cool for it.
Plus, Chrono characters aren't whores.
who's a whore in final fantasy? Tifa, despite the tities, is probably on par with Kid on the sexuality scale. Aerith is slightly more whorish, having had a boyfriend in solder like cloud, but she's dead, and yuffie is the blunt of alot of child jokes.
Squall is an emo bastard who doesn't like people, and Cid.... well There's always a cid. >.> <.<
I'd call them stereo typical, but whore? comeon, that's just being mean.
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I mean whore as in Mario whore. Final Fantasy characters sold "themselves" out when joining Disney characters.
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What about the Ten Wise Men? Nobody remembers them. Sad. But what about outside the SE universe? Who would be the #1 Villain of all time?
Kain from the LoK series. Even though he isn't really a villain, but still... As a mixture of Villain and Anti-hero as it goes, he gets my vote :lee:
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Most Overrated: Sephiroth.
Yes he was good, but not as good as everyone makes him out to be. And for the love of Mog, can we please keep him out of KH3? How many times do I have to kill him, really? Ballpark figure? Anyone?
I say replace him with Magus - Sehpiroth's had his run. Don't think SE would agree with me, though.
Must...defend...Magus's honor...! >_> Magus wasn't an overrated villain because he wasn't really a villain at all...He was just as badass as everyone says he is...if not more! :)
As for Chrono characters in the Kingdom Hearts series...I think we all know one or two (or ten or fifteen) cutesy Cross characters that would fit right in w/all of Disney's freakish talking animal monstrocities...
Kain from the LoK series. Even though he isn't really a villain, but still... As a mixture of Villain and Anti-hero as it goes, he gets my vote
There's only one anti-heroey man named Kain, and his dragoon armor's blue and he's got a friend named Cecil. 8)
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Kain from the LoK series. Even though he isn't really a villain, but still... As a mixture of Villain and Anti-hero as it goes, he gets my vote
There's only one anti-heroey man named Kain, and his dragoon armor's blue and he's got a friend named Cecil. 8)
Actually, the Kain I mentioned is a 1400 years old Vampire o.o
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(http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/e/e6/240px-Kane.jpg)
That is the only Kane I choose to recognize.
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All I can say is this: lance bass was once, and will forever remain the original, voice of sephiroth. lance bass came out he was gay, thus by default, sephiroth is the gayest character in the SE universe. he's even gayer then the gay looking clown with the womanly laugh O.o.
Thus, by default, ff7 is the gayest of all final fantasies. XD I have no idea where I'm going with this.
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(http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/e/e6/240px-Kane.jpg)
That is the only Kane I choose to recognize.
Hey, you know, because of that shot, I've always recognized Angola on a map?
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Same here. The Nod selection screen taught me the names of several African countries, sort of how Medieval: Total War gave me an idea of European provinces. Now I know about Aquitane, Anjou, Normandy, Britanny, Ile de France, Champagne, Cordoba, Navarre, Murcia, Wessex, Mercia, Northumbria, and the whole host of German provinces (I can see why the HRE was never united -- too divisive). Which reminds me; my favorite thing I've heard about the HRE is that it was "neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire."
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(http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/e/e6/240px-Kane.jpg)
That is the only Kane I choose to recognize.
OK, Kane is the greatest villain. Hands down.
(Yuri comes in a not-so-close second place)
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All I can say is this: lance bass was once, and will forever remain the original, voice of sephiroth. lance bass came out he was gay, thus by default, sephiroth is the gayest character in the SE universe. he's even gayer then the gay looking clown with the womanly laugh O.o.
Thus, by default, ff7 is the gayest of all final fantasies. XD I have no idea where I'm going with this.
Nothing is gayer than Squall and FFVIII. U phail.
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All I can say is this: lance bass was once, and will forever remain the original, voice of sephiroth. lance bass came out he was gay, thus by default, sephiroth is the gayest character in the SE universe. he's even gayer then the gay looking clown with the womanly laugh O.o.
Thus, by default, ff7 is the gayest of all final fantasies. XD I have no idea where I'm going with this.
Nothing is gayer than Squall and FFVIII. U phail.
Agreed, besides, Sephiroth never spoke in KH.
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All I can say is this: lance bass was once, and will forever remain the original, voice of sephiroth. lance bass came out he was gay, thus by default, sephiroth is the gayest character in the SE universe. he's even gayer then the gay looking clown with the womanly laugh O.o.
Thus, by default, ff7 is the gayest of all final fantasies. XD I have no idea where I'm going with this.
Nothing is gayer than Squall and FFVIII. U phail.
Agreed, besides, Sephiroth never spoke in KH.
you never fought him did you?
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All I can say is this: lance bass was once, and will forever remain the original, voice of sephiroth. lance bass came out he was gay, thus by default, sephiroth is the gayest character in the SE universe. he's even gayer then the gay looking clown with the womanly laugh O.o.
Thus, by default, ff7 is the gayest of all final fantasies. XD I have no idea where I'm going with this.
Nothing is gayer than Squall and FFVIII. U phail.
Agreed, besides, Sephiroth never spoke in KH.
you never fought him did you?
If by fought you mean getting your ass handed to you, then yeah, I fought him. Why, does he talk after the match?
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All I can say is this: lance bass was once, and will forever remain the original, voice of sephiroth. lance bass came out he was gay, thus by default, sephiroth is the gayest character in the SE universe. he's even gayer then the gay looking clown with the womanly laugh O.o.
Thus, by default, ff7 is the gayest of all final fantasies. XD I have no idea where I'm going with this.
Nothing is gayer than Squall and FFVIII. U phail.
Agreed, besides, Sephiroth never spoke in KH.
you never fought him did you?
If by fought you mean getting your ass handed to you, then yeah, I fought him. Why, does he talk after the match?
he says three things besides his grunts "sin harvest angel" which is the 1 hp attack, then he does meteorai, which he say "its time to end it all" or something around that, I can't quite remember. Then when you whip his ass, he says something about cloud.
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All I can say is this: lance bass was once, and will forever remain the original, voice of sephiroth. lance bass came out he was gay, thus by default, sephiroth is the gayest character in the SE universe. he's even gayer then the gay looking clown with the womanly laugh O.o.
Thus, by default, ff7 is the gayest of all final fantasies. XD I have no idea where I'm going with this.
Nothing is gayer than Squall and FFVIII. U phail.
Agreed, besides, Sephiroth never spoke in KH.
you never fought him did you?
If by fought you mean getting your ass handed to you, then yeah, I fought him. Why, does he talk after the match?
he says three things besides his grunts "sin harvest angel" which is the 1 hp attack, then he does meteorai, which he say "its time to end it all" or something around that, I can't quite remember. Then when you whip his ass, he says something about cloud.
He can kill you with magic!? :shock: Wow, I need to level up some more.
But still, Squall is queerer.
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All I can say is this: lance bass was once, and will forever remain the original, voice of sephiroth. lance bass came out he was gay, thus by default, sephiroth is the gayest character in the SE universe. he's even gayer then the gay looking clown with the womanly laugh O.o.
Thus, by default, ff7 is the gayest of all final fantasies. XD I have no idea where I'm going with this.
Nothing is gayer than Squall and FFVIII. U phail.
Agreed, besides, Sephiroth never spoke in KH.
you never fought him did you?
If by fought you mean getting your ass handed to you, then yeah, I fought him. Why, does he talk after the match?
he says three things besides his grunts "sin harvest angel" which is the 1 hp attack, then he does meteorai, which he say "its time to end it all" or something around that, I can't quite remember. Then when you whip his ass, he says something about cloud.
He can kill you with magic!? :shock: Wow, I need to level up some more.
But still, Squall is queerer.
dude.... he uses blue balls on you. how is he not queering the squall?
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Simply because Squall is on such a level of bishieness that he is simply unqueerible. :lee:
(oh and btw this is the Kain I was talking about)
(http://images.google.com.br/images?q=tbn:UXGFQ8THEq0BWM:http://images.legacyofkain.net/defiance/fankit/characters/Kain.jpg)
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I just googled some pics of this Squall Guy, but I don't frickin get why you think he's a queer, I mean just because he was made looking good?
Ohhh I think I get it, someone is envy :D
Ahahahaha 8)
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I just googled some pics of this Squall Guy, but I don't frickin get why you think he's a queer, I mean just because he was made looking good?
Ohhh I think I get it, someone is envy :D
Ahahahaha 8)
Here are a few reasons:
- He's got the EMOest personality in ANY game EVER;
- He wears a Chocobo fur jacket! (Jesus Christ. Paris Hilton wouldn't wear that.)
- He IS Seifer's bitch.
- Quistis, the hottest chick in FFVIII, like says "OMG PLZ BANG ME NOW", and he simply doesn't. Cuz' he's a bishie.
- He's just queer and that's it. Hahahaha =]
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I'm not sure if anyone has braught it up, but Seiken Densetsu 3 is also Square Soft, I think O.o
Anyway, I think that the Dragon Lord / Prince of Darkness in Seiken Densetsu 3 were awesome villans. Basically, the Dragon Lord was this guy who died, but took this other guy with him, and gave him a bit of that power. Then all these other people were out to unleash the Mana spirits so that the Holy Land would open, the Dragon Lord or the Prince of Darkness would arrise and then destroy the Holy Land and claim the Sword of Mana, in turn killing the Mana Tree and the Goddess of Mana, who in the end actually did die.
Basically, either way, in the end, the Holy Land was destroyed. But at the end, in 1000 years time in which Mana would not exist till then, the Mana Tree will regrow and there will be a new goddess etc.
Anyway, besides that, I think Kefka and Sephiroth were the best SE villans.
Lavos didn't have enough personality, but he was great never the less.
Kefka, as said before, accomplished his goal, but was finished off. Sephiroth is hated and feared because he is so powerful, and because he killed Aeris and pretty much wanted the world destroyed.
And besides the main villans, I always loved FATE and the Dragon God. They just had such intricate plots. FATE was supposed to be the protector of humanity, yet attempted to reincarnate itself or make a new species of itself. And the Dragon God wanted the end of the humans, and the bastard took Harle :'(
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I just googled some pics of this Squall Guy, but I don't frickin get why you think he's a queer, I mean just because he was made looking good?
Ohhh I think I get it, someone is envy :D
Ahahahaha 8)
Here are a few reasons:
- He's got the EMOest personality in ANY game EVER;
- He wears a Chocobo fur jacket! (Jesus Christ. Paris Hilton wouldn't wear that.)
- He IS Seifer's bitch.
- Quistis, the hottest chick in FFVIII, like says "OMG PLZ BANG ME NOW", and he simply doesn't. Cuz' he's a bishie.
- He's just queer and that's it. Hahahaha =]
Chocobos have fur? I thought they have feathers :O Or...or do birds have both?
Anyways, you know, I haven't played the FF game he is in, but you just gave me a reason to play it :D
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I just googled some pics of this Squall Guy, but I don't frickin get why you think he's a queer, I mean just because he was made looking good?
Ohhh I think I get it, someone is envy :D
Ahahahaha 8)
Here are a few reasons:
- He's got the EMOest personality in ANY game EVER;
- He wears a Chocobo fur jacket! (Jesus Christ. Paris Hilton wouldn't wear that.)
- He IS Seifer's bitch.
- Quistis, the hottest chick in FFVIII, like says "OMG PLZ BANG ME NOW", and he simply doesn't. Cuz' he's a bishie.
- He's just queer and that's it. Hahahaha =]
Chocobos have fur? I thought they have feathers :O Or...or do birds have both?
Anyways, you know, I haven't played the FF game he is in, but you just gave me a reason to play it :D
no they have feather, that post was made up.
cloud is far more emo. the s.o.b. went catatonic for a good section of the game. and unlike seifer, who literally could only do so much damage to squall before squall bitched him royal, cloud literally WAS sephiroth's bitch for a good long while.
and dude: Selphie> quistis. and she later admits, she was trying to replace eldina, whom squall actually cared for when they were all just babies.
meanwhile, cloud still had tifa, who was waiting SOLELY FOR HIM SINCE THEY WERE KIDS, and still wanted aerith more. The hell kinda gayness is that?! you're giving up on a lifetime friend who wants to turn fuck buddy for the flower girl?! what are you, stupid?!
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I just googled some pics of this Squall Guy, but I don't frickin get why you think he's a queer, I mean just because he was made looking good?
Ohhh I think I get it, someone is envy :D
Ahahahaha 8)
Here are a few reasons:
- He's got the EMOest personality in ANY game EVER;
- He wears a Chocobo fur jacket! (Jesus Christ. Paris Hilton wouldn't wear that.)
- He IS Seifer's bitch.
- Quistis, the hottest chick in FFVIII, like says "OMG PLZ BANG ME NOW", and he simply doesn't. Cuz' he's a bishie.
- He's just queer and that's it. Hahahaha =]
Chocobos have fur? I thought they have feathers :O Or...or do birds have both?
Anyways, you know, I haven't played the FF game he is in, but you just gave me a reason to play it :D
Yeah, I guess I meant feathers, hahahaha =]
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I just googled some pics of this Squall Guy, but I don't frickin get why you think he's a queer, I mean just because he was made looking good?
Ohhh I think I get it, someone is envy :D
Ahahahaha 8)
Here are a few reasons:
- He's got the EMOest personality in ANY game EVER;
- He wears a Chocobo fur jacket! (Jesus Christ. Paris Hilton wouldn't wear that.)
- He IS Seifer's bitch.
- Quistis, the hottest chick in FFVIII, like says "OMG PLZ BANG ME NOW", and he simply doesn't. Cuz' he's a bishie.
- He's just queer and that's it. Hahahaha =]
Chocobos have fur? I thought they have feathers :O Or...or do birds have both?
Anyways, you know, I haven't played the FF game he is in, but you just gave me a reason to play it :D
no they have feather, that post was made up.
cloud is far more emo. the s.o.b. went catatonic for a good section of the game. and unlike seifer, who literally could only do so much damage to squall before squall bitched him royal, cloud literally WAS sephiroth's bitch for a good long while.
and dude: Selphie> quistis. and she later admits, she was trying to replace eldina, whom squall actually cared for when they were all just babies.
meanwhile, cloud still had tifa, who was waiting SOLELY FOR HIM SINCE THEY WERE KIDS, and still wanted aerith more. The hell kinda gayness is that?! you're giving up on a lifetime friend who wants to turn fuck buddy for the flower girl?! what are you, stupid?!
The thing is: Cloud = chicken, lunatic AND schizophrenic. I mean, he was a chicken when a little boy, then grew up to have his mind messed up by Sephiroth, together with Tifa and pretty much everyone else in Nibelheim, and then become a guinea pig for Shinra, turning into one schizophrenic dude after Zack's death, and then stays with a fake personality until the end of the game. It's not like he chooses Aerith over Tifa. The dude isn't stupid, 2 is better than 1. :lee: And c'mon, everyone knows that after the game was finished Cloud banged Tifa's brains out. You can clearly see in AC that he screws her and then runs away, and that's why she gets all pissed off. Even Reno and Rude could see that. Hahahaha. And well, Squall is simply bishie. Quistis is like the hot young teacher that everyone in the Garden would wanna have some fun with, still she for whatever reason goes around saying "Yea Squally, cum to mama" and he simply fakes a headache.
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Enough about Squall! This isn't a Gayest Character thread!
And where's the love for Ogodemir? HE KILLED GOD! And his dying words imply that you only killed him because you ARE God (how that's supposed to work I have no idea. I guess the key word here is IMPLY.)
"And now for something completely different - a man with three buttocks."
Name that quote and win a prize!