Chrono Compendium
Zenan Plains - Site Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: DeweyisOverrated on August 12, 2005, 02:35:23 pm
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There are a few issues I want to address with the "evolution" of RPG's from say, early 90's (late 80's?) to now.
First off, does anyone feel that there has been a dramatic drop-off in the quality of them? I feel like the golden age of RPG's was about a 5 year period from around 1993-1998. After that, it seemed to drop off. If you look at any general list of the greatest RPG's of all time, most of them will be from that general time period, and most of those dominate the top spots.
Second, I feel like they've gotten easier over time, which makes no sense at all. Let me explain. Has anyone here ever played FFI (jap)? BALLS HARD. IV (jap) was insane as well. After that, they seemed to get easier. Now, this doesn't make any sense, especially when talking about RPG's. When you think about it, the ONLY difference between current gen RPG's and RPG's from 10 years ago is the graphics. The jump from 2-d to 3-d. The basic premise of the game is identical, however. Use menu commands in a strategic order. Lots of number crunching. It's the same. So, all current consoles do is ILLUSTRATE the commands in a more dramatic fashion. That shouldn't have any effect on how hard the actual game is, right? But, for some reason, RPG's as of late are a joke. And it's somewhat frustrating.
Agree/Disagree?
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100%. It's freaking creepy! I had to use cheat codes to finish CT (I know, I'm ashamed) and I never actually completed FF2. >_> even WITH cheat codes and walkthroughs
Tales of Symphonia? Pokemon? (don't even start) Baten Kaitos? snappity snap snap. But STILL fun. It could be because weapons are better and enemies are weaker or...something.
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It's really sad, you know. In few years from now, the toddlers will be teens. And we will be men. And we shall work hard to stay alive and not be able to tell them the truth of RPG's. And they shall play games with good graphics, cheesy stories who are easily finished.
CT is kind of easy, too. Go through the game, and by the time you get Epoch and finish the side-quests, you're ready to take on Lavos, no further level-ups needed. CC is VERY linear when it comes to leveling up. The most you'll get is an extra 2 HP for every monster battle. Sad.
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But it'll get worse. These people playing shitastic RPG's will one day be making them. urhrhrhr.
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Those who can't distinguish between good and bad RPG's won't get jobs.
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RPG's quality may have seemed to drop off because they really arn't fresh anymore. I mean, I can play a new FF game now, and I get to a part of the game, get to a puzzle or hard enemy, and then based on my past experiances with RPG's, can easily figure out what to do.
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I personally agree with you about the "golden days" of RPG's but it's hard for me to judge difficutly. I was alot younger when I played Chrono Trigger, and I remember it being SOOO hard (especially magus man was that tough) but playing it now it's really easy. So I can't tell if I just grew up and it seems like games are easier or if they really have gotten easier. On the same note I think that the golden days of RPG's might be in your mind too.
Everyone my age says CT or FF6 when you say what's the greatest RPG but it's hard to tell if it was just the experience you felt when you play your first few RPG's. Your first RPG's are so new and innovative simply because you never experienced them before.
--jp
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It's a tricky argument, and you can't fall victim to nostalgia. Compare FF6 to a new one today, and give them to a person who has never played an RPG before. Invariably, they're probably going to come out liking the new one -- at least, initially. I think there's a point of RPG experience at which a player gets over the first thrills and fun of playing a game with an RPG system and gaining experience, and starts to crave something deeper. Right now, my top priorities in a game are character roundness, atmosphere, and plot. Chrono Cross, for instance, has these in masterful form (...okay, not character roundness for some), but it's not something that can be picked up and roared through by a new gamer. It's almost like an acquired taste.
I may be totally wrong, though, since I have a limited experience in RPGs. To date, I've played BoF I & II, FF6, CT/CC, SMRPG. And I think a couple others.
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I agree with what you say, ZeaLitY, and I'll take it a step further. I think that people who "came of age" in regard to RPGs (and video games in general) are likely to get stuck liking whatever game style was popular at that time. In some respects, newer RPGs are typically better than old ones, but I find myself prefering older RPGs most of the time--specifically those from the 16 bit era, when I was in middle school/high school and got to really like RPGs.
However, your point about nostalgia is, I think, closest to the truth. Compare a game like Final Fantasy IV or Phantasy Star II--games which have devoted followings--and compare them to games like Final Fantasy VIII or Crono Cross--games which are savaged by fan-boys. You simply can't deny that FF8 and Cross are superior in really every measurable way, but the nostalgia factor distorts our perceptions. (And for the record, I love all of the games I just mentioned.)
There's no convincing fan-boys, though. The Compendium is an exception because my experiences here are always good, but I find it's almost better not to discuss these things. You either see it one way, or the other, and nobody ever changes their mind about it.
Anyway, back to the Schala sprite. :)
OdF
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You simply can't deny that FF8 and Cross are superior in really every measurable way
I'll pretend you didn't say that about FF8.
Although I do fall pray to nostalgia, I do try and look at games as how they are for their time. Of course a new, PS2 RPG would be better in serveral ways to, for example, FF4. But look at what FF4 was in its time: Great graphics, one of the first ATB battle systems (if not the first), and a story I think to this day thats one of the best around. In order to compare new games to old games you have to look at how they are to their generation. How much a change they did. Will the RPG world be much different in the future because of games like FF10, or CC (I'm sorry, I think its just decent)? Well, FF10 because of the voice acting, maybe, but other than that, not by much. Or was the RPG landscape changed due to FF4 (wow, an RPG with a good plot!), FF7 (well, created the Modern RPG) and others much greater?
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I still hear this banter about FF8, and I'm going to play it above all other new Final Fantasy titles simply to figure out what the anger is about. The people denouncing it don't sound too dissimilar from Cross haters, so I'm hoping for a game that's immeasurably rich in feel, atmosphere, and characters, but didn't satisfy some need like gameplay or something.
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I could never get into the FF8 draw system. I think that the reason I disliked the game so much is because I am a perfectionist, so every time there was a new spell I would have to draw until I had 300 (100 for each member of it). It also stopped me from casting my most powerful spells because of it's junction system. The story was OK overall, I loved all the Garden stuff at the beginning but after that I was just mildly interested.
Of the "newer RPG's" I think FF7 wins hands down. And I don't care if you call me a fanboy, that game is GREAT. I think it was the first good 3d RPG, I love the magic system, which (once again I'm a perfectionist) allowed me through TONS of wasted time to have every spell at once. Finally, I found the story engaging from beginning to end (maybe slightly less than engaging for part of the middle).
--jp
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As for FF8, the game is real good in the begining. Then, it just lost it. You know an RPG isn't good when I, an RPG freak, doesn't feel compleled to beat it. The Draw/Junctioning systems is anti-magic, and you become to dependant on GFs during boss fights. I myself got to the part of the game thats right before the end, and I just didn't feel like doing the side quests, and prepare for the end. This was my second time going through, and I was doing it just to give the game another chance -_-
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Sentenal:
Oh man you reminded me, the GF's. They were so annoyingly(good word there) long. AND (here's me being a perfectionist again) once I got boost I felt compelled to get it as high as possible so I didn't even get a chance to watch the movies 379 times. Plus one more thing was once you get to the end you can't go back and explore old town's, finish sidequest and the such unless you made a save before you ...I don't want to give away any spoilers here...Which of course I didn't make a save so I was basically stuck.
--jp
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For whoever said "It was hard back then, maybe we jsut think its easier because we've grown accustomed to them"... pick up a copy of FF1 jap (or eng, just make sure its not he dumbed down version) and tell me that it isn't impossible.
As for FF8, here's the reason people hated it.
Battle!
Summon GF!
(wait 2 minutes)
Battle over!
GF's cost nothing to use, so there was no incentive to use a weaker regular attack over it.
Anyway, nostalgia might play a small role, but not much. I didn't start playing RPG's until about, oh 98, 99. So I was really on a 5 year delay of the good stuff. But I played the stuff coming out at that time, and the old-school stuff simultaneously. And, in general, I hated the new stuff, and loved the old stuff. Even to this day, it remains the same. I play Xenosaga, hate it. I just started Illusion of Gaia, and I love it. [/quote]
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I just couldn't get into Gaia. If you want a REALLY good Action RPG, pick up Secret of Mana, or find Secret of Mana 2 rom.
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Seiken Densetsu 3? Owned it. At least 50 times. Great game.
Which actually makes a really good point. I LOVED Seiken Densetsu (Secret of Mana) 3, so I figure, "well, Legend of Mana for PSX must rule, right?"
Wrong. Exact same sort of gameplay, but it sucks. I don't know why. But it came out later, and overall was just... bad. It's sad, really.
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I've got a lot to say on this, but I'm afraid I just haven't got the time. If you'll allow me to sum up my most important point, I think the RPG VG genre has crystalized around a particular style of a particular theme. The fantasies have become mundane, the plots predictable, the characters hackneyed, the gameplay unoriginal, and the conflicts repetitive. If you're new to the genre you will have great fun for a while because there are many quality games to be experienced for the first time. But if you're an old-timer you may be feeling ready to move on, and thereby frustrated by the lack of engaging material. This is not directly the fault of the newer games so much as of the homogenity of the genre as a whole...but it can indirectly be a fault of the newer games inasmuch as developers may feel compelled to try and complete variation upon variation of the same theme while having already exhausted the best (apparent) possibilities long ago, in games like Chrono Trigger.
In a lifetime you will never run out of good books to read, and this is because literature is a lot closer to the essence of the human intellect, wrapped around it like an old, snaggly tree and trying to grow down through the centries ever closer and closer to the glowing center. In contrast, the RPG VG genre has cut itself off from that and instead wraps itself around its own conventions. RPGs simply must stop trying to appeal to their own sense of what constitutes an RPG, and instead appeal to the human imagination, the intellect. That requires originality, innovation, wit, intelligence, departure from the norms...risks!
[Edits: Spelling and clarity]
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I'm fairly new to RPGs myself. CT got me hooked; I bought a PSX mostly so I could play CC, as well as the Mega Man X games for the console. I ended up buying FF7, FF8, and Xenogears as well. Though Chrono Cross was a masterwork, I HAAAAAAAATED FF8. The draw system just sucked donkey balls. Granted, it was different from what had been done before, but sometimes going out of your way to be different is a bad thing. Basically all you ever did was use GFs, and that got hella boring. Some people diss FF7's Materia system because it purportedly makes every character the same except for Limit Breaks, but balls to that. Call me a fanboy if you want, but FF7 is quite simply one of the most kickin' RPGs ever made. CT's still my favorite, but there's barely anyone who's played CT and hasn't liked it. Chrono Cross is dissed on by fanboys a lot because of the storyline; they somehow get to thinking that it's completely unrelated to CT. In fact, without Lavos, the Crew, and Belthasar, CC's plot would cease to function. Basically, they hate CC because it isn't a CT rehash. What's even worse is hoping, desperately hoping, that a new game in a series will either do something new or improve upon something that already exists, only to buy it and find out it's the same damn thing again.
Even KOTOR, widely considered "fresh" and "the only good Star Wars game" is about as cliched as one can get. Not only is it basically a standard "collect all the magic talismans/parts of some ancient archaic device/thumbtacks and bring them back to the holy temple/meeting place/enemy stronghold" shoehorned into Star Wars, the latter claim is a symptom of the same new age idiocy that plagues gaming and RPGs these days; haven't these mofos ever heard of Jedi Knight or TIE Fighter?
Honestly, every time I see a block puzzle in a new Zelda game, or a trading sequence in a mainline RPG, part of me gets pissed off. Just...dammit. Think of something else. Why not draw from real life some more? Why not have a puzzle based on fluid mechanics or kinematics or something? Why not have a trading sequence based around the stock market and different economic systems?
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Because then dumbass parents who can't discipline their children will say videogames are corrupting our children.
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I don't have much experience with RPG's, only playing four. Them being Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross, Dragon Warrior and Earthbound. All of these I immensely enjoy and can play over and over.
I blame the immense popularity of DQ/W and FF. They are so popular and are considered the benchmark RPG series that every new one tries to copy the aspects of those games instead of trying to break the mold. I think that sometime soon when the generation of gamers that grew up with these games become producers is when we will see a revamp in the genre.
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Earthbound was awesome >_> I remember some guy on an Earthbound forum wrote a fanfiction where Lavos and Giygas were the same species.
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Earthbound was awesome >_> I remember some guy on an Earthbound forum wrote a fanfiction where Lavos and Giygas were the same species.
That would be some evil ass species. And Earthbound is probably one of the most underated games ever. No one gets the spoof aura that the game eminates heavily.
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I once saw some bullshit review of a guy who didn't like Earthbound because it sucked when compared to other RPG's. He compared it to Final Fantasy 7 and blamed Earthbound for not having cinematic summon techniques. Dumbass.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/snes/review/R15382.html
This guy's just an idiot.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/snes/review/R20876.html
Ok, lemme get this straight. The guy buys the game for 10 dollars in 1999 for the Super Famicom? You sir, have no right to bitch if you're expecting high quality from a 5 year old game. Fuck you and go to hell.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/snes/review/R3781.html
Ok, I'm gonna actually dissect this guy's review, since it was the one I was bitching about above.
The graphics, sounds, and controls, along with the ability to rename about anything in the game was great, but I just didn't like the game. It was unbearable. A little boy, who's most powerful weapon is a baseball bat (put that against an Atma Weapon, ehh?) travels to many exotic places all because of a meteor. Ugh...
So, you gave the game a 4 for the plot, even though you said everything else was great? Fuck you, too.
Grapics= 8 The graphics were good. A little loony-toonish, but good overall. The only thing that bothered my about them were the battles. You couldn't see yourself. What about Final Fantasy Legends, you scoff? Well, keep in mind that FFL was on a GAMEBOY! Ugh...
Bet you wouldn't say that about Dragon Warrior, bitch.
Plot= 1 The thing that makes up an RPG. Hell, I've played text-based RPGs, so I know what I'm talking about here. I really hated it. Maybe because I was playing the role-model for every single RPG out there at the time, but I didn't like the modernization of things, and the incorporation of the stereotypical aliens (can we say politically INCORRECT?!?!). People seem to love this game, probably due to human's simple minds, but I guess I wouldn't mind having the chance to actually finish it, just so I can say I did. Wait. Evil thoughts, get out of my head!
how are aliens politically incorrect? They don't even follow our politics, jackhole. You call yourself a gaming guru and call everyone who liked the game a simpleton. Not even I have that big an ego, and it's pretty big. Bend over and offer thine ass, you're done with life.
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I didn't really like Earthbound. I'm not sure why. My opinion has to be wrong though, because people having been begging for the sequel for a good 12 or 13 years.
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I'm sure most people know this but Earthbound is Mother 2, Mother 1 I never finished but is SO similar to Earthbound. My friend played it and said it was good but I never had the time to play through it.
Anyone remember reading about Mother 3, it looked kind of good. The only part I remember was planting a seed at one point would allow a tree to grow that you could climb later in the game. I don't know why that's the only aspect of the game I remember though
--jp
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If you're talking about the one that was supossed to come out for 64, it got deep into development, but was cancelled for one reason or another. Never even made any sort of comeback for GC, so that game has surely been completly scrapped by now.
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They're planning to release Mother 3 for GBA.
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They're planning to release Mother 3 for GBA.
I think that's a bad move. The GBA is immensly popular, and everyone and their mother has one, plus another one lying around the house somewhere.
I say make it for the Revolution. That will get a ton of people to buy the system just for that one game.
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FFTactics <---new gen RPG that not only kicks ass, but more than competes w/our beloved oldschool games.
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Strategy RPGs hook me more now days than the traditional RPG, just because I havn't played as much. Ogre Battle 64, my first Strategy RPG, is in my top 5. FE7, then first fire emblem released in america, was great too.
And as for KOTOR, the game is ALOT different than other RPGs. While its story is its weakness (it only gets decent the latter half), the battle system harkens back to D&D style, with dice rolls, etc etc. And then theres the whole choosing all your actions, going dark side or light side aspect. Both KOTOR games are pretty fresh to me, but not fresh enough for me to consider "great".
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But the thing is that the heart of any RPG is its story.
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I don't know if it's bad to revive old threads here, but I noticed this and just had to read through it and revive it. It's a shame I didn't know about the "General Discussion" when this was 'alive'...
Anyway, about nostalgia... About 5 years ago (or whenever exactly it came out) I got and played Majora's Mask (Zelda, in case you don't know). It was basically my favorite game, and I loved it so much. I don't know why, but I felt like everything was sooo immense. It's not like I actually explored every place, because, at that point, I was too scared to do anything without a guide, but I felt like it was an actual world. I recently replayed it (I just have to get 3 more heart pieces, then I can go to the moon and finish), and it's still one of my favorite games, but it comes nowhere near what I thought it was. I remember being sooo panicky and scared about doing the Link/Kafei mini-dungeon because of the timed aspect, but when I replayed it I was so disappointed; I think I got to the end before the mask even got past the first room. I think there's some aspect of not knowing exactly what's going on that makes something more amazing.
Can we make a list of good RPGs for varios systems? For some reason, I love RPGs more than most other games.
Also, why are Zelda and Kingdom Hearts considered RPGs? Zelda is in no way, in my opinion, an RPG, and the only 'RPG' element of Kingdom Hearts is the item/equip stuff, but I think being turn-based or relatively so makes something an RPG.
I don't know about old RPGs... The only that I can think of for the SNES are FFVI, CT, and SMRPG. I loved FFVI and CT, but I could never get into SMRPG. For some reason, I rented SMRPG a long time ago (6 years or more ago) with some friends, and I loved it because of choosing which kind of action to take. Again, I think that was a case of something being better because I didn't understand it. Someday I'll get into SMRPG, but it'll probably be in a while.
I'd like to keep talking about RPGs, and I have a lot to say, but I don't want to say it and then have this thread get no replies, so I'll say some more if people respond...
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For SNES, FFV was a good one in my opinion (first game to utilize the job/class combination such as possibility of having a knight with black magic skills as well etc.?). I also liked Illusion of Gaia, though playing it as a really young kid from my old friend's SNES. I only really got up to the part where you first get the transformation skill, but I enjoyed the game mechanics a lot.
Anybody play Skies of Arcadia? Now THAT, in my opinion, was a great RPG.
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I can't believe I forgot about FFV >_<
One of my favorite games, but I've become a perfectionist when I replay games, so I can't replay it without having to spend every second training to master jobs...
I have Skies of Arcadia Legends for GC. I got it more than a year ago, played up to where you get the first crystal, then just stopped cuz it annoyed me. Then, at the end of the last school year, I started playing again and did so obsessively. I really liked it, but the graphics annoyed me at first and Laruba (is that the name of the first town that you go to Nasr? the one that you think is the whole of Nasr until you find about Nasrad halfway through the game) just really annoyed me... I loved the music of the town in Ixa'Taka, I'd stand by the entrance before leaving just to get to a good part of the song. Also, I'm a bit curious about the graphics; they're obviously not wonderful for the GC, but they aren't terrible either. Were those the same graphics on the original (dreamcast?) version? Although I never had or even played a dreamcast, but it came out a bit past N64 and PSX, and I'm amazed if it had those graphics on something with the power of N64/PSX. The random battles really would've been overwhelmingly annoying had Aika not had those multi-targeting super moves. Ahh... rant. Anyway, in conclusion, which character did you choose for the end? I really didn't like Enrique at first, but I just got so used to using him that I just decided to keep him. Ok, I lied, that wasn't in conclusion. It really annoyed me that Galcian was weaker than Ramirez, yet Ramirez obeyed Galcian fiercely... also, in the second battle with Ramirez (the second unbeatable one) I was able to survive pretty well by using two sacrum (I think that's the one that did 1000HP to each person) crystals per turn and attacking with my third character, so I battled for quite a while before I decided that I was making no gap in HP and had to let myself die... Hmm... I never did the last battle with Piastol, I think I read that her appearances were related to how many moonberries you collected, and I didn't get all of them so she never appeared the last time, but, then again, I don't even think she was in the original Skies of Arcadia (the box says "bla bla bla and new characters" and shows a picture of a scene with Piastol).
[/rant]
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I dunno if I'd call Skies of Arcadia "Great"...But it was a good ol' romp. I <3 Ship Battles. The characters were a lil meh though...very cliche stuff throughout, but not necessarily bad...And those flubbin' voice overs for attacks! Bleh...Otherwise it was a fairly good RPG.
I also don't see FFV as being so great...Possibly because I played FFT before it...and because most of the characters stink...Galuf, one of the most developed characters <spoiler> gets dumped (DEAD'D) and replaced w/a character who's development is non-existent!
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I liked SoA Legends. Never played the Dreamcast version. The graphics were apparently minimally better, but I disagree. The textures were actually worse, because they were more compressed so they could fit the whole game on one disc.
Piastol and the stupid things flying around were added to SoAL, so all the stories that resulted from there were new.
Anyway I enjoyed the game, except for one part in the dungeon underneath the colossiem early in the game. I couldn't tell if it was my ears playing tricks on me, a glitch, or a scratchy disc. I can't remember exactly, but it had something to do with the sound of the stepping of Vyse cutting out the music. So like, if there was a step, the music wouldn't play while the step was beiong played. It drove me INSANE.
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Hm... I guess FFV wouldn't be as good if I'd played it before FFT... I remember I finished FFVI and when I started replaying FFVI, my friend was like "no, play FFV instead"... I liked the storyline, but, yeah, I guess it really wasn't wonderfully developped.
Ok, I'm going to start making a list of 'good' RPGs by starting off with what I have... Add on if you want.
Gamecube:
Skies of Arcadia Legends
Tales of Symphonia
Baten Kaitos
PSX:
Chrono Cross
Final Fantasy VII
(Final Fantasy VIII)
Final Fantasy IX
Final Fantasy Tactics
Xenogears
Legend of Dragoon
Vagrant Story
Breath of Fire III
Star Ocean: The Second Story
SNES:
Star Ocean
Final Fantasy IV
Final Fantasy V
Final Fantasy VI
Super Mario RPG
Chrono Trigger
GBA:
Tactics Ogre: The Knight of Lodis
Golden Sun
Golden Sun 2
Fire Emblem (7)
Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones (8)
(Final Fantasy Tactics Advance)
Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga
I would list PS2, but I was listing games that I have (or had, I traded in Tactics Ogre: The Knight of Lodis, Golden Sun, and Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga, and I played Golden Sun 2 by borrowing it... ugh, I really wish I hadn't traded in Golden Sun and Tactics Ogre, now I have to buy them back)
I also put FFVIII and FFTA in parentheses because I'm sure people find them debatable as being good..
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The GC RPG's I'm not a big fan of. I liked SoAL, but it's just a remake of a DC game. Baten Kaitos looked good, but was a bad game imo. Tales of Symphonia had a crack-like battle system that I loved, but the game other than that was confusing and not fun. Mario RPG (Thousnad Year Door) got insane reviews from everywhere, but I haven't tried it. I didn't liek the one for 64, I don't really see how this one would be that different. My main problem is the simplified battle system.
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I don't consider Zelda an RPG, but I consider Kingdom Hearts a RPG, definatly.
What makes an RPG? Is it a good plot/storyline? No, but thats almost a requirement for one, but other genres can have it. Is it Turn-Based combat? No. Thats just the more common type. If RPGs can only be Turn Based, like the mainstay FF series, then tons of good RPGs arn't RPGs. Then what makes it? Character development. Basically, you start the game with a character, and as he fights, he gets strong, his stats increase, he "level up"s. If you gain levels, or something of that nature, then I consider it to be part RPG. Kingdom Hearts is what is know as an "Action RPG", which unfortunatly is a dieing breed. You gain levels, you equip equipment, you get new party members, you explore towns, has a good story.
As for my list of great RPGs, I won't do them per console, I'll do them per how much greatness they have.
1- Final Fantasy 4. The father of the Modern RPG.
2- Chrono Trigger. 'Nuff said.
2- Final Fantasy 6. Not a typo, its tied with Chrono Trigger for number 2. It improved on what FF4 did, refining the RPG that we know today.
4- Ogre Battle 64. IMO, the greatest Strategy RPG ever.
5- Secret of Mana 2 (SD3). IMO, the greatest Action RPG I've ever played.
6- Final Fantasy 7. Basically, brought Final Fantasy to the playstation generation, and was good at the same time.
7- Kingdom Hearts. First time I played it, didn't like it so much. Second time, I really got into it. I'm really fired up about KH2.
8- Fire Emblem 6. This was the one with Roy. I liked the story better than FE7, with Eliwood. Good strategy RPG.
9- Secret of Mana. The first Action RPG I've ever played, and was great.
10- EDIT: Earthbound. I can't believe I forgot about this one!
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Zelda is not a RPG. I've yet to hear one solid point about why it should be considered so. Nintendo says its an Action/Adventure game, so it is.
Earthbound is really so-so. I don't care how different the story is, it just seems really hard to follow sometimes. I do applaud them for successfully pulling off a RPG in a modern setting however.
FF7 I really think gets more hype than it deserves. I thought it was below average AT BEST. FF8 has to be the worst FF of the entire series. IMO, the only good FF on the PSX was FF9. That was a pretty good game. FF4 and FF5 are definently the best of the series however.
The SNES was really the promised land of the RPG. Just about every one on there is decent, most good, and many fantastic. Some that people have not mentioned however...
Tales of Phantasia - Remade for PSX, one of my favorite RPGs ever. It really sways back and forth between this and Chrono Trigger.
Star Ocean - Great game, its the classic that started em all. SO2 for PSX is also excellent, and SO3 for the PS2 is good but is very lacking compared to its prequels.
Lufia 2 - One of the finest RPGs of all time. Not much more to say about it, go play it!
BoF 1 and 2 - They both suffer from a rather dry translation, but even barring that they are good games.
EVO the search for Eden - A weird action RPG where you move up the evolutionary chain from fish thing all the way to human. Fun, however.
Soul Blazer / Illusion of Gaia / Terranigma - All 3 great action RPGs by Enix, worth checking out.
Front Mission / Front Mission: Gun Hazard - FM1 is a strategy/rpg hybrid, wheras Gun Hazard is a side-scrolling action RPG. Solid games with mechs, definently a blast.
Seiken Densetsu 2 and 3 - Aka Secret of Mana, great action RPGs from Square.
Super Mario RPG - A bit on the short side, but still a load of fun.
Not for the SNES, but Golden Sun 1 and 2 are the finest RPGs on the GBA.
Though if youre looking for a good RPG, I highly highly recommend Tales of Phantasia and Lufia 2.
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One thing that did annoy me about SOAL was the iffy bits of voice acting inserted. I think they should have either made the entire remake (for the GC) complete voice acting (which they could have) or made it just text, not the mostly text with little bits of speech chirping in (Vyse: Uh huh! Aika: Yep! Fina: Mmm...)
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My list,
Gamecube:
Gladius
PSX:
Chrono Cross
Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy VIII
Final Fantasy IX
Final Fantasy Tactics
Vagrant Story
SNES:
Final Fantasy IV
Final Fantasy V
Final Fantasy VI
Super Mario RPG
Chrono Trigger
Terranigma
Tales of Phantasa
GBA:
Golden Sun
Fire Emblem (7)
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Can someone explain to me what makes Tales of Phantasia, Tales of Destiny, and Tales of Destiny 2 so great?
Tales of Phantasia was the first Tales game that I started playing, and I really liked it, though I don't think I ever liked the battle system. I eventually stopped playing cuz I couldn't figure out where to go in one dungeon and there were just too many random battles to figure out where to go. I was planning on waiting for the GBA remake to play it again, but it appears that they decided to not release that in the US... Eventually I saw an ad or something for Tales of Symphonia, and I was intent on getting it. I went to Hollywood Video the day it came out to see if they had it, and then I found out they didn't get more games until fridays, so on Friday I went and they hadn't gotten it yet, so I had them reserve it till the end of the day... After that, I spent 15 of the 30-day-rental thing playing Tales of Symphonia, and eventually I bought it (though I got to the 2nd disc during the rental)... Eventually I bought Tales of Destiny because I heard somewhere that Tales of Symphonia's battle system was exactly similar to Tales of Destiny 2's system, and I figured Tales of Destiny 2 was similar to the first.
So, I started playing Tales of Destiny, which has a similar battle system to Tales of Phantasia, and I just hated the battle system. I would love it if you could just slash your sword wherever you stand like you can in Tales of Symphonia, but you have to run up to the opponents, slash, run back, run up to the opponents, etc., and I found it very hard to get to stay where the opponents were standing. ALSO, the character attacks MUCH slower than you can press the button, so I felt like I was just tapping the A button while having maybe 1/5th of the hits actually make an attack. And, even then, there was no sort of combo thing that I could find, you'd just slash, slash, slash, slash, slash (or stab, stab, stab, stab) with lots of time inbetween...
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I edited my list. I forgot about Earthbound, so gave it my #10 spot.
Can you people explain why you think FF5 is so great? I know people like the job system but... meh.
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I like the job system more than the esper system, and, as far as I remember, the actual combat was the same as FFVI.. The only other advantage that I remember FFVI having was the storyline.. However, besides the job system in itself isn't that great. There have been 4 job-based FF RPGs, one of which I haven't played (FFIII), FFV, FFT, and FFTA. FFV and FFT had not only the jobs but great ability learning things (FFT's ability system was much better than FFV's). However, FFTA had FFIX's ability system. I love FFIX and it's one of my favorite games, but the ability system (equipment teaches abilities) was just annoying. I like just equiping the strongest stuff, not constantly switching to learn new abilities. I wish there were another FF game with FFT's ability system; gaining JP or AP and then choosing from a list of things what abilities to learn would be awesome, and would be a great touch to make FFIX nearly perfect in my opinion. (The card system would still have to be switched to FFVIII's card system, however, to make it perfect.)
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Isn't FFV a typical "Destroy\Defend the crystals that would destroy\save\protect the world" storyline?
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Pretty much. Difficulty and story made me not finish the game.
However, FF4 (discounting the earlyer ones, because they hardly had a storyline) had the first good storyline about the Crystals. Its old news now, but it defined a theme thats considered a classic theme.
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FFV was badly done. There were NO surprises.~Spoilers start here~ Feris is Lenna (Ot w\e they're called) sister? Wow, all those scenes were Feris drools over the king are just NOT OBVIOUS! Butz is connected to the Crystals? The scene where his dad tells his mom not to tell him about it is SO unrevealing. ~Spoilers end here~
It's simpley pathetic in my opinion. The Gameplay is good, it is. A shame the story needs a total makeover. |:
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FFIV had to do with crystals? I really need to play it again >_<
Isn't FFIV on Anthologies? Maybe at some point I'll get Anthologies and Chronicles so I can replay 4, 5, 6, and CT
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It depends on where you live as to what combo you need to get FFIV. In NA, it's in Chronicles. In Euro it's in Anthologies (and actually, I'm not even sure a Chronicles was released there at all).
And yeah, the whole Butz/Bartz/whatever thing being the hero's son who's now the hero was a little...meh...some cliche is really nice if done really well (Chrono Trigger anyone?), but there is a line, as I've said before :)
FFI also had a very loose interpretation of the Job Class System, that I think is obvious that sort of evolved into what we got w/FFIIIj and then that evolved into FFV and that into the awesomeness of FFT...They just mashed everything they could find into FFTA...The FFT Pub Sidequests! The FFIX ability system (which is another ghettoized Esper system)! The random rule from FFVIII's card game (judge rules)!
And yeah, I like FFVI more than FFV because of the story and the characters...But honestly, I thought that FFV's job class system was too easy...I mean, maybe after having my experience w/FFT that's obvious...But I think the Mime & Bare classes (by endgame at least) were far too overpowered...
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And the final boss was a cakewalk! Just a few hits with gil toss and he's done!
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Y'know...I never used Gil Toss...I always hate the idea of the move in all incarnations because I'm a money & item whore even at end game and on the final boss (don't ask me why)...But I still had no troubles...Just did the best Summons on Galuf...er...what's her face that replaces him, Black & Time Magic on Leena, Barts had Blue Mage ability for Aero 3 or w/e...and Faris...i forget what abilities she had...I think Ninja's 2-swords or something and x-attack or something...damn the Bare Class pwnz after you've got a couple classes mastered...too...easy...
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Earthbound is really so-so. I don't care how different the story is, it just seems really hard to follow sometimes. I do applaud them for successfully pulling off a RPG in a modern setting however.
How is it hard to follow? The only part that confuses me is the end when they are turned into to robots and time travel. Everything else up to that is pretty well explained. And also you have to remember that there was Mother 1 which explains Giygas much more. Which would make sense since it is the first game of the series.
1. Chrono Trigger
2. Earthbound
3. Chrono Cross
I've played less RPG's than ZeaLity! :p
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Y'know...I never used Gil Toss...I always hate the idea of the move in all incarnations because I'm a money & item whore even at end game
Same with me, the appeal of tossing my hard earned cash/items never really got to me.