Chrono Compendium
Enhasa Halls - Chrono Series Analysis => Characters, Plot, and Themes => Topic started by: DarkGizmo on July 11, 2005, 07:13:51 pm
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No topic on him? Impossible that one of the wierdest guy in CT...
for the ones who don't know who is he : he's the guy in the skull tant in millenium fair.
Wierd points
[Norstein Bekkler's lab 1000 A.D.]
[Norstein Bekkler]
So! You want a Crono Clone?
Normally I'd never do this, but today
I'll make an exception.
[Keeper's Dome, 2300 A.D.]
BELTHASAR: Need a Clone?
The magician, Nolstein Bekkler could
whip one up in the wink of an eye.
Bekkler loves festivals. Find a
festival, and there, too, you shall find
Bekkler!
So Belthasar know this guy and belthasar was sent form 12,000 BC to 2300 AD ... Bekkler is found in 1000 AD that make hims +/- 13,000 years old or he can too time travel.
He seems to know alot about Crono for some reason he knows exactly how he look likes and where he lives
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Belthasar was all about time traveling, so perhaps this is how he knows of Bekkler...
Or, being in the future, perhaps he just researched a way to get a clone and BLAM, imput about Bekkler in 1000AD from computer databases...
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Or, being in the future, perhaps he just researched a way to get a clone and BLAM, imput about Bekkler in 1000AD from computer databases...
What I was going to say :P
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Yes, very much like that. Plus, maybe there was a line of Bekklers that started in Zeal. I always saw Zeal and Chronopolis as the only societies who could actaully CLONE someone.
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Wow. Belthasar actually calls Bekkler "magician"...
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I think he's a magician on the same level as someone like David Blain is a magician...Not 'real' magic...but kinds of tricks and stuff...
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Maybe a magician like Sneff and Guile?
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He's a super cool dude who's really named carrie and takes a pictures with his thumbs up any chance he gets.
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Maybe like on Raymond E. Fiest's Shadow of a Dark Queen, a magician called Nekor (or nector) cant remember, doesnt call magic magic but instead 'tricks', myabe Bekkler is some1 like that??
~Darth LC
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Hum well you only see his upper body part so it could be called tricks, like magician, for the clones though, more a scientist?
maybe there was a line of Bekklers that started in Zeal. I always saw Zeal and Chronopolis as the only societies who could actaully CLONE someone.
Well it can't be chronopolis since it didn,t exist in Laovs timeline. Zeal I doubt that it got destroy with no amterial for certainly 100 years
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Bekker is more of a magician. And the clones aren't real fleshy clones, more like dolls, as he called them.
Also about Zeal and Chronopolis cloning, I seriously doubt it. Zeal is more of a magical empire, not very scientific. They study the soul, dreams, etc.
Chronopolis studies time, and in that research, they discovered that the human brain had to have mutated some way to get to the way that it was in such a short time. And that triggered the brain research, where they started to think that even a persons soul could be cloned as it's stored in the brain and stuff.
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Wierd that those dolls are called clones but you're right they look more like dolls and it would be very sad to kill a human who looks like Crono, for him to survive.
Well Queen Zeal had clones of Crono and co. except for magus at the end of the black omen (you can even see the picture on the thread about it).
Chronopolis said that soul could be cloned, they maybe could but they never tested cloning or I doubt they did
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Yeah, I seriously doubt that Chronopolis would ever clone anyone. And I don't think that the people in the glass were really Chrono and Co. Can you acctually see them inside it when you're playing on your REAL Super Nintendo? Because I've tried 2 emulators and they were never there.
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havent you not see the screen I did?
here are they then :
(http://darkgizmo.zapto.org/chrono/c/Black%20Omen%20-%20Zeal%20Throne.jpg)
they seem to float up and down a bit
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The pic dosen't work. -_-
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I'm sorry it works for me, my damn FTP seems to do that often :(
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Works for me too. And I did play on SNES, and yes, they are there on the real system.
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Yar, that pic needs to be edited down a lil...It takes so long for me to load on my crappy 56k...But anyways...
I never thought of them as being clones through the entire time I've been playing CT (since only months after it's debute really)...I always thought they were holograms.
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1. They look like holograms.
2. Where is your party?
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I edited those useing the emulator I remvoed the party because I didn't need them.
1. They look like holograms.
Now tell me who would want some hologram of his enemy sleeping, or shaking their glasses?
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Well they cant clone them without DNA, duh.
Maybe they are like danger holograms. If someone comes who is not Zealian and is like an intruder, an image of them will be shown to who it is.
BTW, whenever you edit your chracters using one of the emulator keys, other things are revealed to you, you know. Like monsters in the background for no reason which shouldn't even be there, cut off sprites, etc.
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That's not what this is Zaperking...And that doesn't really happen when you remove sprites, that's mostly a background thing. The holograms are there in the real game (both the SNES & PSX versions, which I have, show that scene).
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I saw them on my SNES like mentionned in the post before me and Zeal could have gather DNA some other way, like scanning or something.
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I agree with Zapperking. I see those figures more like holograms. Probably they were scanning the intruders to reveal their powers and their weaknesses.
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First of all Zeal knew who they are she greet them. Hologram doesn't tell anything except physical apparence, why wouldn't be Magus there anyway?
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Need to play the game through again :lol: I am restarting :wink:
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Perhaps they are what Magus told Zeal as the Prophet or something...That way it wouldn't make sense for Magus to have included himself...And then they just captured their look from when they confronted Zeal in the throne room.
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they probably didnt put Magus there because at that point in the game, you can choose to have magus or not. so wat would it look like if u didnt have Magus, walked in there. WHOA! Theres Magus! And did u notice they had there eyes closed (the clones or watever)
~Darth LC :twisted:
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Yes that's why I said they were spleeping except for Lucca she sake her glasses. I don't know how Magus could have told about 6 party member when you fough him with Crono, Frog and one more party member. He could only 5 max if you had 2 others when he asked schala to seal the time gate
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WELL now, you could say the exact same thing for any possible 'clone' theory, correctomundo? How would Zeal get ALL of their DNA?
Looks like the images are an impossibility. Let's forget they ever existed.
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Like I said, they're most likely just a scan hologram of the gang. Cuz it doesn't matter in a sence who is in the tubes, because you could have gone to the ocean palace, then escaped and got another member, came back etc.
Zeal is pretty technological, like how the Black Omen has those laser guards. I'm pretty sure that could scan you. And also, when you go down the stares in the Ocean Palace, you fight those soldiers, who might have reported you or something, or those weird statues took a copy of you.
Magus isn't an intruder because the Queen trusts him.
And Zeal doesn't seem like a cloney civilization. That theory is just as bad as the Zealians dying their hair rumour.
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Oh yeah, that makes sense :wink:
Although I think the cloning theory has a little more to it than the hair dying thing, since we have the weird images (which really seem more like holograms) AND the fact of the whole Schala & Kid thing...
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Get this: If they were really clones then why would they be floating up and down and with their eyes closed in a little anti-grav device? What is the point of that? If they were holograms it would seem more likely as those anti-grav devices could have been holographic displayers or somethin. And maybe Queen Zeal used them to study the characters weak points in battle. Maybe the holograms had data on magical statistics and that.
~LC
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Well, personally i believe that the dying rumour is quite a good theory, especially explaining Schala's look in CC. After all, it is not so unheard of that very socially evolved nations developed ritual make-up (for example, the Queens of Naboo lol :D just kidding). Or it might just be a trend :wink:
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Ya, i never liked the make-up. And yes, the dying theory i wouldn't even class as a theory anymore, i think it is safe to say that it was thought of and planned by SE and it isn't a theory...but fact. And yes, it would explain y schala's hair is blonde in CC.
~LC
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Ya, i never liked the make-up. And yes, the dying theory i wouldn't even class as a theory anymore, i think it is safe to say that it was thought of and planned by SE and it isn't a theory...but fact. And yes, it would explain y schala's hair is blonde in CC.
~LC
I'm with you two on the dying theory.
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like look at the evidence we have: Schala in CC basically says it all, our own speculation (the whole compendium's i mean) is also enough too. And the fact that Dalton and the Gurus are the only ones who dont have hair dye. Every1 has come to terms that Magus' hair was either always purple (his natural color), or he used magic. Some ppl think though that its kinda like their magical power (kinda like super saiyan or sometin) that Lavos drained out of her so her hair turned blonde (or maybe she went Super Saiyan!). That theory works but just doesnt seem right.
~LC
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like look at the evidence we have: Schala in CC basically says it all, our own speculation (the whole compendium's i mean) is also enough too. And the fact that Dalton and the Gurus are the only ones who dont have hair dye. Every1 has come to terms that Magus' hair was either always purple (his natural color), or he used magic. Some ppl think though that its kinda like their magical power (kinda like super saiyan or sometin) that Lavos drained out of her so her hair turned blonde (or maybe she went Super Saiyan!). That theory works but just doesnt seem right.
~LC
Yes, that theory sounds terrible. If anything, the blue hair is Super Sayian, and her hair reverted back to blonde because of her power being drained.
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ya, i knew that, i just thought i'd through the pun in that all :D
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Ya, i never liked the make-up. And yes, the dying theory i wouldn't even class as a theory anymore, i think it is safe to say that it was thought of and planned by SE and it isn't a theory...but fact. And yes, it would explain y schala's hair is blonde in CC.
~LC
The dying theory can't be true because it's not just about Schala's hair (blue/blonde) but also her clothes (purple/white) and her eyes (green/blue). She could have dyed her hair, she might have dyed her clothes... but does eye dye exist?
What's more, not all the Enlightened Ones had blue hair. Actually there are more blonde/brown haired Zealians than blue-haired, and only the women (and Janus) had blue hair if I recall correctly.
I think it's more probably magic. Magus also changed his green eyes into red eyes so...
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and her eyes
Maybe SE forgot what colours were wat? (well it was like something like nearly 5 years between game wasn't it?) Or just magic yes.
~LC
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and her eyes
Maybe SE forgot what colours were wat? (well it was like something like nearly 5 years between game wasn't it?) Or just magic yes.
~LC
Yes, maybe she had like Mako Eyes, and when her magic was drained they reverted back to their original color...
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Mako Eyes?
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Mako eyes and Mako hair then...
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What does Mako mean?
Also, the hair is hair dye god darnit!
~LC
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Well, Zealians used magic for about everything... it wouldn't be unthinkable to speculate that their make up was of magic nature. Something like "Today i want purple shades on all of me"... *pufff* (sound for successful spell).
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Remember my famous quote:
MAGIC IS INFINITE
It has no limits, therefore we have no understanding of what Magic could possibly do.
~LC
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Hmm, yeah. I guess Janus probably maintained that spell to look "cool and spooky", so he could give his enemies the creeps. ^_^
Janus: You are all SCARED now!
Knight girl: OOHH! A dark mage! Look at those pointy ears. I WANT TO TOUCH THEM!
Girl starts touching Janus' ears.
Janus: O_O
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As V_T said there never any mention of hair dye so it's a little bit farfetched. Saying that it's magic coloring is less farfetched because magic is obviously present in the series, we're not adding or theorizing the existence of something which isn't mentioned (like dye).
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Yea, i always thought that the Janus/Magus/Magil character had the "cool" look to him. In almost every Anime there is one cool character.
~LC
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Legendo of the Past :D you need to watch less Inuyasha lol :wink:
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Its Legend of the Past by da way, most of us call him Legend though. Me and him go way back! :D
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Corrected :wink:
Chrono'99, if the dye was actually mentioned in the game, then it would make no sense to theorize about it, it would be a fact :wink:
But the fact that Schala has the hair (the eyes as well?) in different colours in CT than in CC, requires an explanation, don't you think so? ^_^
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Either SE forgot about the colours, or either every1's emulator has't got a good plugin... :lol:
~LC
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Lol.
Hey, Thats what I said in an earlier post. THAT'S MY IDEA!
About her hair and eye colour been drained because of her magic.
As I said in another post, my theory said that Schala's hair was based on either magic sustaining it, or it was truely genetic, and the loss of the colour i will explain in point 2.
Point 1. Hair colour by magic.
In this theory, It is believeable that the Zeal line did not have blue hair but used magic to make themselves different from the other Zealians and Earthbound ones. When Schala was fusing with Lavos, he was draining her life, her power etc. Because her power was running out, she could no longer sustain her hair colour via magic and it turned back to her normal colour.
BUT, AND BUT! There is a light that has not been shed, and I just thought of it now. Since Schala is a very nice and humanitarian person, I would think that she would oppose having her hair Blue to seem different from the other people. She always said that the Zealians and Earthbounds were the same, so I do not think she'd change her hair colour at all. Janus, on the other hand, would because he thinks he's high and mighty,
Point 2. Hair colour being natural but the effects of Lavos are devistating.
In this idea, It is reasonable to believe that the Zeal line had blue hair by genetics. The Labura people had pink hair, that doesn't mean that Zeal's line can't have blue hair. Even Wazuki and Serge have blue hair to the present day.
Magus, when he attacked Lavos in the Ocean Palace, and his energy was drained, did not lose his hair colour, if Magic was to sustain it.
Because Schala around Lavos for a dangerous amount of time, and they were fusing, I belive that Lavos was sucking away at her DNA. He was taking away her life to make himself stronger. As he took her life energy away, her eye colour lost its pigment, her hair lost its colour. Blue and Blonde are colours that do not need alot of pigment. They are very common. So I believe that Lavos may have been extacting her Genes and DNA, and by doing that, her body lost the pigments for her eye colour, and hair colour. With the clothes, maybe that was what she was wearing underneathe. She may have used her Zealian robes as a blanket for Kid when she was sent into the forest.
Thoughts, please?
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Some of them use a PSX...
And, yeah, all I needed to add is: "A Frog!!! Kawaii!!!" and it'd be a complete Inuyasha rip-off.
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With the clothes, maybe that was what she was wearing underneathe. She may have used her Zealian robes as a blanket for Kid when she was sent into the forest.
Best idea on clothes yet.
~LC
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Goodness, you just might be right!
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Legend, i think we may be in trouble, i think we should agree on his theories before things turn nasty!
~LC
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hehehe yeah Zaperking ^_^ but well, i'll tell you a secret: that was already speculated long ago, in previous versions of the Compendium... i think that even in GameFaqs... man, that sure was long ago lol :lol:
Anyway, you do have a point about Schala maybe not wanting to dye it. But maybe she liked it. Or maybe she sometime even stopped using the dye, and the earthbounds told her that they liked her better with it. ^_^ Many things are possible.
As far as i know, when people suffer skin illnesses that lead to depigmentation, their hair and eyes turn grey or white, they don't go, as far as i know, to other colors that require less pigmentation. Best examples are hairs turning grey for old or stressed people, and also people who suffer albinism.
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Why trouble? We're lucky he had that idea, it may answer some questions.
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*thinks for a while*
it's a pity she didn't use all of her clothes to wrap Kid :lol:
I like that theory!
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*thinks for a while*
it's a pity she didn't use all of her clothes to wrap Kid :lol:
I like that theory! Definitely, Schala's clothing in CC looks like ancient-fashioned female underwear.
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Oo, I haven't been on GameFAQS since March Oo.
1. My theory about Schala's clothes was because Kid was wrapped in a purple cloth, looked alot like Schala's dress.
2.Schala's hair looked alot like Platanium blonde anyway, but I think I didn't really say what I ment properly. I personally don't know how to explain it. But the closest that I can say is that Lavos simply sucked Schala's life out, and with that, she became pale, eye colour faded, hair colour changed.
^.^
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The question is Zaperking is why does her hair go to blonde, when it could easily be red, brown or pink!
PS: Thats if u except the theory that her hair was naturally purple.
~LC
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The question is Zaperking is why does her hair go to blonde, when it could easily be red, brown or pink!
PS: Thats if u except the theory that her hair was naturally purple.
~LC
More like gray.
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Oo, I haven't been on GameFAQS since March Oo.
1. My theory about Schala's clothes was because Kid was wrapped in a purple cloth, looked alot like Schala's dress.
I like this theory too, but even then her purple dress would still have to somehow change color. The stuff Kid was wrapped in was total white : http://chrono.lunar-net.com/cc/trigger/pics/fmv/index2.shtml
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maybe it is her dress but was drained of its color first?
~LC
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Told you :D magical makeup :D maybe all the clothes Zealians buy are originally white lol :lol:
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come of it!
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Men, you go into the supernatural too much. Maybe a chemicel reaction in that shell around Schala made the color melt?
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supernatural is what my life is based on! No, i believe that Lavos drained the color from her dress.
Come to think of it Legend's is also a nice idea.
~LC
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Umm..
If you read the whole of my post, Blonde and Blue are the most common colour for hair and yes because they need less pigments, so if Schala was drained of energy, her body would only sustain the weakest DNA pigments.
And about her clothes, maybe she turned them white? WAIT!
EDIT: OMG! IF ANYONE HAS NOTICED, HER CLOTHES THAT SHE IS WEARING DO NOT EVEN MATCH THE ONES SHE HAS ON IN THE CONSEPT ART BY AKIRA TORIYAMA! OMG! Maybe her clothes came off by Lavos, or were torn or something. And she used a bit of her undergarnment for Kid to be wrapped in.
Schala's clothes that she is wearing at the time you see her look nothing like what she wears in ZEAL!
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Yes i did read the whole post, i was here from (well near) the beginning.
Maybe the clothes that Kid has turned white becauase of flowing through time or sometin like that.
Any yes, what Schala wears in the TD are her underclothes. Glad there's no wind there...brrr....
~LC
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Glad there's no wind there...brrr....
Like she has enough consiousness to feel it.
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i was just kidding...
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i was just kidding...
As was I.
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I hate it when ppl do that... :cry:
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Well I don't -Drained-Schala's eyes colours, but I can tell you that if you remove pigment from hair they get blonde if you remove pigment from eyes they get red (blood red) if you remove pigment from clother they get white (since they reflect all the colours and absorb none)
If Drained-Schala has red eyes blonde hair and white clother she has been drained, else we may consider Lavos playing with her DNA or we may assume other crazy theory like Schala created her new clothes and Lavos is Crono's father
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Why can you tell us that? ^_^ as far as i know, for people who loses pigmentation, their eyes and hair go grey, or so i had been told at school ^_^
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There is a illness call albino here what it says :
albino
Dictionary
al·bi·no (ăl-bī'nō)
n., pl. -nos.
A person or animal lacking normal pigmentation, with the result being that the skin and hair are abnormally white or milky and the eyes have a pink or blue iris and a deep-red pupil.
A plant that lacks chlorophyll.
[Portuguese, from albo, white, from Latin albus.]
AHAH thank to my good friend google...
Old people get gray hair not because they lack pigment but because they lack melanin.
Pigment cell create melanin, so when you get old, you get fewer pigment but you still have some, those pigment create melanin which give color to your hair, the fewer pigment you have the lesser melanin you get. The hair then turn more greyish
source:
http://kidshealth.org/kid/grownup/getting_older/gray_hair.html
http://www.google.com
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So albinism makes your eyes reddish? Ok ^_^ good to know. Thanks!
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I never said she'd go albino. She didn't go albino. Her eyes turned Blue, which is close to Grey aswell, which is the absence of alot of pigments. Red and pink eye colour is the absence of any pigments, I recall i think.
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Who says Lavos drained her of all her pigments? He needs her alive, otherwise she's no use for him, so he dosen't drain ALL her energy.
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Thats what I said earlier on. He was draining her of most of her power Oo. And as he drains it, she becomes weaker and will finally fuse with him.
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Well if he'd drained all her pigment she wouldn't die, and I thinbk that grey/blue eyes are a lack of pigment while red is no pigment
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Yeah, That's what I was trying to say. He'd suck her life away to like 5/7th of her energy. And by draining her life, she'd lose pigments but not all of them. Like I said, and Gizmo too, blue/grey pigments mean you only have a little pigmentation. Same with Blonde hair.
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my dog has that pigment thing :lol:
Yes, Lavos may have been draining Schala's energy so he could fuse with her, but what if the pigment was just a REACTION that happened due to the fusing (u know, too much energy in one place etc.)
~LC
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Pigments have to dissapear to cause blue/grey eye colour and blonde hair colour. I don't think Schala was gaining any power, as Lavos was using her to make himself stronger.
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Where did any1 say she was gaining power? That would be stupid. Lavos needs Schala's power to make him stronger. Come to think of it, why did Lavos kill Crono? He could've captured him and Schala and made this giant over-powered beast!
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1. I never said that Schala was growing stronger.
2. Schala was stronger than Crono at the time and probably still is if she could withstand Lavos.
3. Lavos killed Crono in a single blast, whilst Schala withstood impact after impact, not to mention probably being injured when she fell into the M. Machine and then into the DBT etc.
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I don't think Schala was gaining any power
Whats that then? Unless im taking it the wrong way of course :D
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You know, as they said in Hercules: Being a true hero is not a matter of power and muscles. It's depends on your heart :lol:
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but how do we know what is in Schala's heart? We hardly see her that much really. And let alone Crono, who never talks at all...
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Crono talks a lot! The silent hero is a false myth lol :lol: Actually, the problem is that, for some reason, they always obviate his words. But, for example, when they talk with Doan, Crono is the one explaining the situation... his words simply don't appear because we already know what has happened :lol:
Why did they do this for CT? The ways of Square are inescrutable. :lol:
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Argh! Damn me, my memory betrays me yet again, that must be 1452-1 on the scoretable now...gees.
And also, the silent protagonist has a deeper meaning: He is wise because he never talks. Either that or he lost his tongue while flinging his sword... :lol:
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lol talk about me, i don't remember what i played 5 days ago :D
Anyway, in the slideshow ending, Crono talks, noticing how Marle and Lucca are commenting on the guys of the game lol.
Who said that "It is better to keep quiet and look stupid, than opening your mough and cast out any doubt"? Groucho Marx?
Also, Crono shows he has the heart of a true hero many times. For example, Crono (that is, you) doesn't doubt for a second to go after Marle when she disappears in the flow of time, he doesn't doubt about trying to revert Earth's tragical destiny, and doesn't doubt about stepping in front of Lavos, getting a direct hit, to save Schala. ^_^
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Just though of a lovely quote to contradict my last post (im often doing that):
Actions speak louder than words.
Any1 have any idea who actually said that?
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Nelson Mandela?
BTW, even with the few scenes that we got to see the real Schala in, I was touched and cried at the end of the Ocean Palace disaster because I thought she had died when I first played CT when I was 6.
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Think it comes from the book of Proverbs? (Bible).
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It doesnt really sound like something from the bible, but i could very well be wrong. And about the contradiction, i am right on that quote, Crono doesnt need to speak because his actions speak louder than his words. A wise, silent and all-powerful protagonist.
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Lol, adjectives for their way of speaking :lol:
Crono, the silent.
Marle, the verbose.
Lucca, the thoughtful.
Frog, ye olde speech.
Robo... actually Robo is the most normal of all of them lol
:lol:
Ayla, the sportswoman.
Magus, the laconic.
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If Ayla is a sportswoman, she sure has a hell of a good sports bra.
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lol that reminds me of an add of bras for sportswomen, with the pic of Kurnikova and saying "Only the balls should bounce" :lol:
Anyway, the way Ayla speaks reminds me a lot of sportsmen over here lol :lol:
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1. I never said that Schala was growing stronger.
2. Schala was stronger than Crono at the time and probably still is if she could withstand Lavos.
3. Lavos killed Crono in a single blast, whilst Schala withstood impact after impact, not to mention probably being injured when she fell into the M. Machine and then into the DBT etc.
Impact after impact? From where are these implied impacts coming from? The blast that killed Crono would have killed anyone. It freaking took his soul! Just because Schala has better magical powers doesn't mean that she would have survived that blast. I don't think anyone could have survived that. Especially after already getting thier ass handed to them to the point where they were at near death.
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Well, Acctually, Schala was talking normally, it just seemed that because she was battered so much, she couldn't stand up, and was believing that Crono would run away, but he didn't.
You think about it. Schala had to constantly drain energy from the Mammon Machine, finally to a point where she was zapped by it. She then had to go in with the Mammon Machine, get zapped again. After what happened with Crono, she managed to stand up and use the last of her pendants powers. then she was sucked into the Mammon Machine again with the gurus, who were then transported to different times. Then she had to watch her brother get sucked into a portal to who knows where and she still like didn't go crazy.
But the strongest part about her is that she acctually survived being in the DBT, ESPECIALLY AT LAVOS' MERCY OR WHATEVER!
Even when Marle came back from the DBT (most likely) she was like Omg, I felt like dying etc. etc.. When Schala was freed, she seemed normal and as usual.
She withstood going crazy for a hella of a lot of time. And she thought about others than herself. She even reached out through time to save Serge, send the compassionate side of her out into the world etc. etc. and try to withstand Lavos aslong as she could.
No one could ever withstand Lavos mentally >.> Physically maybe, but what Schala had to go through is way harder than what Crono had to go through. I mean, when I played the game. Crono was lvl 24 when he died...
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Well, Acctually, Schala was talking normally, it just seemed that because she was battered so much, she couldn't stand up, and was believing that Crono would run away, but he didn't.
You think about it. Schala had to constantly drain energy from the Mammon Machine, finally to a point where she was zapped by it. She then had to go in with the Mammon Machine, get zapped again. After what happened with Crono, she managed to stand up and use the last of her pendants powers. then she was sucked into the Mammon Machine again with the gurus, who were then transported to different times. Then she had to watch her brother get sucked into a portal to who knows where and she still like didn't go crazy.
But the strongest part about her is that she acctually survived being in the DBT, ESPECIALLY AT LAVOS' MERCY OR WHATEVER!
Even when Marle came back from the DBT (most likely) she was like Omg, I felt like dying etc. etc.. When Schala was freed, she seemed normal and as usual.
She withstood going crazy for a hella of a lot of time. And she thought about others than herself. She even reached out through time to save Serge, send the compassionate side of her out into the world etc. etc. and try to withstand Lavos aslong as she could.
No one could ever withstand Lavos mentally >.> Physically maybe, but what Schala had to go through is way harder than what Crono had to go through. I mean, when I played the game. Crono was lvl 24 when he died...
Of course Schala's magical powers are incredible! Would you expect less the the princess of Zeal? In my fanfic Schala natural powers are awesome (But she get a lot of power that has nothing to do with her). She summons a friggin thunder storm. Her mental powers are incredible, as well as her magical. Also, look at how she talks: She looks like she reached some kind of enlightment after 13000 years. She more or less told Serge the meaning of life, you know. If Robo (Who would maintain sanity thanks to the effect he, well, didn't have sanity, just programming) could figure that an entity was standing behind their adventures in 400 years, just think what else Schala could of understood except for the meaning of life? I think she might be most knowledgble with the nature of Lavos (In my fic Serge consults her about this, and she gives him a pretty good answer, revolving around Lavos' nature), due to both the time she spent thinking and the time with sharing a mind with Lavos. Seriously though, what else did she have to do for 13 millenia? Just weep and think, think and weep.
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maybe it's 13,000 years but in the DBT or TD pocket dimension time would run faster, no? or be parallel
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maybe it's 13,000 years but in the DBT or TD pocket dimension time would run faster, no? or be parallel
Kid:
C'mon Serge, me mate!
You don't wanna keep the
girl waiting any longer...
She's been waitin' for you,
and only you!
And for over ten thousand
years, I might add!
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That's what Kid is saying because she only thinks it so. 13,000 years since the day that Schala was sucked into the DBT in their world. But it might be true, though 2 components would need to be seen.
The DBT has no real time and there was no aging. This would explain why Lavos hadn't gotten to strong, and needed the Dragon Gods to give him strength and thats why Schala didn't age, but lost her life for Lavos' sake.
The other consept would be that Lavos sustained Schala. But why if he needed her energy? Surely Lavos would not know that Serge might save her.
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That's what Kid is saying because she only thinks it so. 13,000 years since the day that Schala was sucked into the DBT in their world. But it might be true, though 2 components would need to be seen.
The DBT has no real time and there was no aging. This would explain why Lavos hadn't gotten to strong, and needed the Dragon Gods to give him strength and thats why Schala didn't age, but lost her life for Lavos' sake.
The other consept would be that Lavos sustained Schala. But why if he needed her energy? Surely Lavos would not know that Serge might save her.
He wanted Serge as another piece for his collection of merged stuff. Of course, maybe Lavos simpley halted her aging inside her shell? He also kept Schala because he knew that if she could rest, she would regain power, and that's just more energy for him.
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Lavos was focused on turning Schala, not anything else. And also I doubt it could have really seen outside of the DBT, it isn't like its pocket dimension it had when it was alive.
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No, not physically, he could probably 'see' with his mind if u catch my drift, otherwise he wouldn't have a clue on what was happening! Because he is a form of entity (not the Entity), he would have powers like that.
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Nah, He probably first used Schala's timestorm to his advantage. He probably activated the FF by allowing Serge not to get burned by it, Serge touches it and then Lavos can see the world through him.
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Good theory Zaper, never thought of it. So are u saying that the TD saw everything Serge did? Like he was in Serge's body?
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If that were the case, Lavos got screwed over. By the time Serge was even getting to anything important, Lavos was forced to watch the actions of an incarnation of FATE, his worst enemy, after Chrono & co. of course.
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I may be missing something upstairs, but would exactly could FATE do to harm the TD?
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Well it could do something to the FF, possibly Seal the DBT or something. Well the biggest screw over may have been that Lynx took Serge's body, so the arbiter position changed. Lavos doens't want a computer bio-organic human as the arbiter.
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I don't think Lavos really cared about the arbiter at all. He didn't really seem to benefit from it.
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I don't think Lavos really cared about the arbiter at all. He didn't really seem to benefit from it.
Unless he wanted to merge with them. Schala seemed to be the Arbiter... And Arbiters seem to get all sorts of nifty powers. Look at Serge in RD and Serge in CC. Serge in CC can use Luminaire and Flying Arrow, while RD's Serge can't even cast a spell properly.
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Well, Serge in CC does use Elements, so that's irrelevent. and Absorbing the arbiter is absolutely pointless. What benefit is there by drawing power from himself? Schala had her own, unique power like Janus did, and there's no evidence of her being the arbiter. Not like it's relevent anyway.
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Well, Serge in CC does use Elements, so that's irrelevent. and Absorbing the arbiter is absolutely pointless. What benefit is there by drawing power from himself? Schala had her own, unique power like Janus did, and there's no evidence of her being the arbiter. Not like it's relevent anyway.
Mammom.M probably contains the FF. Schala is the only one who controlles the Mammon.M. Thus, Schala is the only one capable of controlling the FF. Sounds familiar?
As for Elements... And? I was talking Tech-wise. Serge in RD is weak, while Serge in CC has stuff like Flying Arrow and Luminaire. And Techs are there, regardless of Elements.
Please, reply to the things I say just as I said them. It's like putting words in my mouth,
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Please, reply to the things I say just as I said them. It's like putting words in my mouth,
Hypocrisy; It's what's for dinner. Too bad I wasn't quoting you on anything.
The Mammon Machine PROBABLY contains the Mammon Machine. Tis the keyword here. The problem with the Frozen Flame being here is this; if the Frozen Flame is with the Kingdom of Zeal and the Ocean Palace,/Black Omen, and we need to get the Frozen Flame for Chronopolis, then that means we have to have Zeal's ruins be discovered, which they haven't done. This presents a problem. This can't be compromised.
The spells in CT were listed with the Techs. They just had stars next to them. WTF is your point? Flying Arrow and Luminare are spells.
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Please, reply to the things I say just as I said them. It's like putting words in my mouth,
Hypocrisy; It's what's for dinner. Too bad I wasn't quoting you on anything.
The Mammon Machine PROBABLY contains the Mammon Machine. Tis the keyword here. The problem with the Frozen Flame being here is this; if the Frozen Flame is with the Kingdom of Zeal and the Ocean Palace,/Black Omen, and we need to get the Frozen Flame for Chronopolis, then that means we have to have Zeal's ruins be discovered, which they haven't done. This presents a problem. This can't be compromised.
The spells in CT were listed with the Techs. They just had stars next to them. WTF is your point? Flying Arrow and Luminare are spells.
Chronopolis states to have found in the eastern\western (Can't quiet remember) section of the El-Nido SEA.
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Well, the FF has a will on its own, so probably it wouldn't be a problem for it to move to other place to be found. Problem is: how is it independent from Lavos? Even if it was a part of Lavos, is it connected to it anymore?
Mammon Machine is stated to be used to draw power from Lavos, who is in the mantle of the planet. Meanwhile, the FF has an awful lot of power on its own... why would it be used to draw power from Lavos?
Questions :wink:
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Inquiry
Who is Norstein Bekkler? Belthasar notes that he knows of the magician, and Bekkler also has the ability to create clones.
Theories
Zeal Refugee
Norstein Bekkler is a playful magician from Zeal who somehow learned of the Gates or time travel by other means and sought out festivals throughout history.
~
The rest of this thread is meh.
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I noticed that Bekkler appears as a floating head with floating hands, as does the transformation of Queen Zeal. Is it possible there is some connection?
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Possibly in the magic that is used to perform the feat, but I really doubt that Zeal has any connections to Bekkler.
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I keep imagining Norstein Bekkler as some kinda bad guy in some way. I love this character, he's mysterious and completely unknown, except he makes clones and runs a magic shop in the Millenial Fair, and yeah, somehow Belthasar knows of him.
Maybe he's the Entity? *shrug* That'd be funny.
Great character for fooling around with in CT hacks or fanfics, methinks.
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There's nothing so special about Belthasar knowing him. Everybody in the Millenial Fair saw him...
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Norstein Bekkler could just be a Mystic or something.
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Or some freak who chopped off his arms... and then uses magic to suspend them. He is not special in a world with chancellors that turn into monsters and seek out revenge for ancestors that were also chancellor monsters... really he is not that amazing. :roll:
I mean there were skeltal monsters in the dungeon of Guardia... why would some loser magician who knows how to clone be so amazing.
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You know, the majority of this thread should really be split into another topic, as it goes massively off-topic for at least a good 8 pages right after the first 10 posts or so.
I find it necessary to necro this topic because I noticed that the Compendium's encyclopedia has two (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Norstein_Bekkler.html) articles (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Norstein_Bekkler_%28Identity_of%29.html) on Bekkler that both only give one possible explanation as to his identity when clearly there are more.
Before even finding this site, I personally had always assumed that Norstein Bekkler was Belthasar's ghost wandering throughout time. Even though Belthasar copied his memory into the nu before dying, this is to say nothing about his actual soul, which presumably still has the original set of his memories. That's always the problem with trying to remain immortal by copying your memories into clones; from your clone's perspective and from the rest of the world's perspective, you're still "alive," but from your (the original's) perspective, you're dead. Given that Belthasar spent so much of his life trying to overcome the laws of time, it doesn't seem too much of a stretch to say that his spirit would be able to transcend it to a degree. The fact that Bekkler is a tad on the nutty side completely fits in with Belthasar's self-diagnosed declining sanity towards the time of his death, and also explains why he took on the alternate name and ego. As for how the nu copy knew of Bekkler, the ghost could have easily appeared before him himself at some point. Same with how Gaspar knew of him, though Gaspar presumably could have also learned just by spying throughout time.
Kyronea (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?action=profile;u=2009) in particular gave another very interesting alternative explanation in this topic (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,3965.0.html). In summary, it suggested that every guru had their own dream entity(ies); Melchior: Masa/Mune/Doreen(?), Gaspar: Spekkio, Belthasar: Norstein Bekkler. Melchior's dream entities are already well established, and Spekkio being Gaspar's dream entity is at least suggested by Chrono'99 (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?action=profile;u=42) in the Spekkio origin encyclopedia article (http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Spekkio_%28Origin_of%29.html), but there is no such mention in the articles for Bekkler. I actually like this idea better than my own; it unifies the gurus in yet another aspect. Bekkler is totally whimsical and transcendent enough in nature to be a dream entity, and again makes a good alter-ego for Belthasar who was starting to go crazy.
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Belthasar is the Guru of Reason, not time.
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Just to go back to that Zeal theory. I do remember when you go to the Black Omen, before the fight with the Mammon Machine, in the walkway float clones or images of the team. Now this is just a crazy theory, but could this link him to Zeal? Maybe he is the Dream creature of Belthazar, but do dream creatures share the same knowledge as their creators, assuming Belthazar was the reasons these clones exist in the Black Omen? Or perhaps is he a dream of Queen Zeal. They bare a similar appearance, they both have clones (although questionable as to where the clones came from), and they both seem crazy. Perhaps this is her playfulness escaping or being shunned from her body? In other word is it a little of both theories?
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Belthasar is the Guru of Reason, not time.
Err, right. Thanks for that. I've edited my post accordingly, justifying it by an alternate means.
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I wondered how were you going to represent that meaning with the correct answer.
Although, all three Gurus with Dream Entities on the physical world? I always thought it was that case for Melchior since he is the Guru of Life, and that they are present in an object.