Author Topic: Recently did a "least characters" run in CC; found some interesting things.  (Read 3461 times)

vivify93

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Hello! Four days ago I got the urge to replay Chrono Cross, but this time I wanted to make it a bit different. For many years now I've wanted to do a playthrough to get the theorized lowest amount of characters - sixteen - for the purposes of documentation.

Yesterday I decided I wanted to present my findings to the Chrono Compendium, since it wasn't that well-received on GameFAQs. I hope you enjoy my findings.

First of all, this is the final list of characters I had as I was standing outside Home World's Opassa Beach for the last time.

In order of recruitment...

Serge
Guile (Of course you can pick Nikki or Pierre)
Sprigg
Radius
Norris
Karsh (Zoah is still option here as well)
Orcha
Grobyc
Riddel
Viper
Fargo
Marcy
Zoah (Or Karsh if you picked Zoah)
Leah
Steena
Starky

My guest characters were Orlha, Kid, Korcha, Lynx, and Harle.

The bulk of the characters join Lynx.

I've found if you choose to leave Kid in Guldove, Glenn is suddenly required to join your team. My guess as to why they did this is because of the three-person puzzle in the yellow room at Fort Dragonia. Since Korcha joins to help Serge and the manor guide get the hydra humour but later leaves (And can be declined at his next recruitment opportunity), you must take the path of saving Kid if you want the standard sixteen.

When I was done with the first 1/3 of the game, I came to the conclusion you only need Serge, Kid, and the manor guide for it.

I accepted Irenes' request to find someone who could talk to Home World's Fargo, but declined to recruit her. Later, when I brought Another World's Fargo to talk to his counterpart, things went exactly as they were supposed to.

What this means is that you do not need to recruit Irenes at all to begin the "saving Marbule" side quest. Whoever began spreading the information that she is necessary was completely, utterly, and simply incorrect.

Starky is required to open his spaceship to get the anti-gravity device so you can go to Terra Tower. No way around it.

After going back in time and saving Kid, as we know, Radius tells us Luccia wants to see her; however, I've found you don't need Luccia on your team for this to happen. But after this event, the mad scientist cannot be recruited at all.

Lastly, no, Kid is not required for the last 2/3 of the game. She can just lay and rot in her coma forever if you so wish. In fact, if you ignore her at Another World's Cape Howl, she doesn't need to join at all.

Greco and Neofio can both join Lynx, but Luccia cannot. I also believe if you get the shark tooth as Serge and take it to Mojo as Lynx, that lovable straw doll can join him as well. Miki can join anytime after the concert, and it appears there is no cutoff time for her. But I've found there is one for Sneff... which, coincidentally, appears to be after concert. Irenes disappears after the concert for some reason, never to be seen again. Also, FlagBearer cannot be gotten while you're Lynx. Furthermore, there are cutoff times for Mojo and Home World's Poshul. I don't know when exactly it is, but when I tried to go recruit her when I was done with this challenege, she told me she "can't play" at the moment. The fisherman who gives you the shark tooth simply has his dialogue changed and no longer offers the item to you.

Since Zappa doesn't join, you don't get the smith spirit or the prism equipment. However, the denadorite stuff works just as well, or so it seems.

Lastly, I've found a few funny translation quirks regarding the Darkness Beyond Time. It's called different things depending on who you talk to.

Miguel calls it the "darkness beyond dimensions," Lucca calls it the "darkness that exists on the other side of time," and the Gate and accompanying teammates' dialogue calls it the "darkness of time." Marle gets it right, though. Oh, and strangely, in her final speech Lucca talks at a few points like Kid is there, even though she's not.

Thank you for reading, and I hope I've helped the community somehow. I apologize if this is all old news, however. :D Have a lovely day!
« Last Edit: February 05, 2012, 03:50:04 pm by vivify93 »

wiz Khalifa

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Hello! Four days ago I got the urge to replay Chrono Cross, but this time I wanted to make it a bit different. For many years now I've wanted to do a playthrough to get the theorized lowest amount of characters - sixteen - for the purposes of documentation.

Yesterday I decided I wanted to present my findings to the Chrono Compendium, since it wasn't that well-received on GameFAQs. I hope you enjoy my findings.

First of all, this is the final list of characters I had as I was standing outside Home World's Opassa Beach for the last time.

In order of recruitment...

Serge
Guile (Of course you can pick Nikki or Pierre)
Sprigg
Radius
Norris
Karsh (Zoah is still option here as well)
Orcha
Grobyc
Riddel
Viper
Fargo
Marcy
Zoah (Or Karsh if you picked Zoah)
Leah
Steena
Starky

My guest characters were Orlha, Kid, Korcha, Lynx, and Harle.

The bulk of the characters join Lynx.

I've found if you choose to leave Kid in Guldove, Glenn is suddenly required to join your team. My guess as to why they did this is because of the three-person puzzle in the yellow room at Fort Dragonia. Since Korcha joins to help Serge and the manor guide get the hydra humour but later leaves (And can be declined at his next recruitment opportunity), you must take the path of saving Kid if you want the standard sixteen.

When I was done with the first 1/3 of the game, I came to the conclusion you only need Serge, Kid, and the manor guide for it.

I accepted Irenes' request to find someone who could talk to Home World's Fargo, but declined to recruit her. Later, when I brought Another World's Fargo to talk to his counterpart, things went exactly as they were supposed to.

What this means is that you do not need to recruit Irenes at all to begin the "saving Marbule" side quest. Whoever began spreading the information that she is necessary was completely, utterly, and simply incorrect.

Starky is required to open his spaceship to get the anti-gravity device so you can go to Terra Tower. No way around it.

After going back in time and saving Kid, as we know, Radius tells us Luccia wants to see her; however, I've found you don't need Luccia on your team for this to happen. But after this event, the mad scientist cannot be recruited at all.

Lastly, no, Kid is not required for the last 2/3 of the game. She can just lay and rot in her coma forever if you so wish. In fact, if you ignore her at Another World's Cape Howl, she doesn't need to join at all.

Greco and Neofio can both join Lynx, but Luccia cannot. I also believe if you get the shark tooth as Serge and take it to Mojo as Lynx, that lovable straw doll can join him as well. Miki can join anytime after the concert, and it appears there is no cutoff time for her. But I've found there is one for Sneff... which, coincidentally, appears to be after concert. Irenes disappears after the concert for some reason, never to be seen again. Also, FlagBearer cannot be gotten while you're Lynx. Furthermore, there are cutoff times for Mojo and Home World's Poshul. I don't know when exactly it is, but when I tried to go recruit her when I was done with this challenege, she told me she "can't play" at the moment. The fisherman who gives you the shark tooth simply has his dialogue changed and no longer offers the item to you.

Since Zappa doesn't join, you don't get the smith spirit or the prism equipment. However, the denadorite stuff works just as well, or so it seems.

Lastly, I've found a few funny translation quirks regarding the Darkness Beyond Time. It's called different things depending on who you talk to.

Miguel calls it the "darkness beyond dimensions," Lucca calls it the "darkness that exists on the other side of time," and the Gate and accompanying teammates' dialogue calls it the "darkness of time." Marle gets it right, though. Oh, and strangely, in her final speech Lucca talks at a few points like Kid is there, even though she's not.

Thank you for reading, and I hope I've helped the community somehow. I apologize if this is all old news, however. :D Have a lovely day!
Trill :grimm

vivify93

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Thank you for replying; I appreciate it. By the way, a friend of mine really loves Never Been. :D
« Last Edit: November 08, 2012, 04:15:30 am by vivify93 »

Yourgingerestfan

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Nice find :)
Ironically I hate almost all of those characters, and there the ones that don't have much ...(well hardly any of the cast actually do) character development, I'd probably say the Deva's and the Viper Manor cast are the most important.

And its hilarious how you never have to have Kid at all :)

vivify93

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Well, since it's OK to revive age-old threads, let me say this!

I noticed that my Least Characters Run (LCR) was recently added to the Compendium Encyclopedia, and while that's perfectly OK, I'd like to submit an updated version of it that makes it streamlined, more coherent, more useful as a guide rather than a bunch of disorganized notes like before. I'm not sure how to submit an update, so I'll just post it here. Please do not include any of the text in this post that precedes the horizontal rule!



A while back, I got the urge to replay Chrono Cross, but this time I wanted to do something a little different. For as long as I can remember, I’ve wanted to do a play-through of CC while only getting the theorized mandatory characters—only 16 individuals—for the purposes of documentation. Four or so days after I accomplished it, I decided I wanted to present my findings to the Chrono Compendium, who I think would appreciate it a lot.

Be warned that there are spoilers abound! With that in mind, let’s start at the end of my Least Characters Run. (LCR)

This is the final list of characters I had as I was standing outside Home World’s Opassa Beach for the last time.

In order of recruitment, I had…

- Serge
- Guile (You can pick between him, Nikki, or Pierre, of course.)
- Sprigg
- Radius
- Norris
- Karsh (Zoah’s still a choice here, since both he and Karsh are forced onto your team eventually.)
- Orcha
- Grobyc
- Riddel
- Viper
- Fargo
- Marcy
- Zoah (Or Karsh if you picked Zoah!)
- Leah
- Steena
- Starky

My guest characters were…

- Orlha (Anyone who can join in the Fort Dragonia dream sequence is an option here.)
- Kid
- Korcha
- Lynx
- Harle

The bulk of the characters join Lynx.

With the surface scratched in the form of the lists, we need to delve deeper.

LCR-related recruitment findings
Leena and Poshul will join your team if you decline Kid. There is absolutely no way out of this, so you have to accept her there. But you can’t just leave her in Guldove to quickly advance the plot, or Macha forces Serge to accept Glenn onto the team. I’m not sure if you can decline him if you have more than two characters on your team, but my guess as to why the developers made Glenn a requirement on the “don’t save Kid” path if you have less than three characters, is due to the “head, body, and tail” puzzle in Fort Dragonia.

On the “save Kid” path, Korcha joins Serge and the Viper Manor guide to look for the Hydra Humour, but he leaves afterword, and can be declined at the next recruitment opportunity. This means that the “don’t save Kid” path is effectively closed off to you in an LCR.

If you’ve declined and actively avoided recruiting everyone, you should only have Serge, Kid, and the Manor guide before Lynx and Serge swap bodies. Kid, however, isn’t required at all for the rest of the game. You can leave her to rot in her coma if you want.

The last required character that has a little trickery to recruit is Starky. He actually is mandatory; you can’t enter his spaceship to get to Terra Tower unless he’s on your team. Everyone else, for the most part, is pretty blatant in whether you need to recruit them or not.

Event-related findings
This first one is a big one; for the longest time, everyone assumed that accepting Irenes’ offer to join the team was mututally exclusive to accepting her request to find someone who could talk to Home World’s Fargo. I can safely say that this is completely and utterly false! I accepted Irenes’ request, but declined to recruit her. During the Dragon Relics quest, when I brought Another World’s Fargo to talk to his counterpart, the “save Marbule” side quest started just as it would’ve were Irenes on my team.

To that up sum it up, you do not need Irenes on your team at any time to save Home World’s Marbule. You merely need to tell her you’ll find someone to talk to Home’s Fargo. She doesn’t need to join at all if you don’t want her to, and whoever began spreading the information that she is required for anything was false.

Also, more of a quick note here, but you don’t need Luccia on your team for her to invite Kid to her lab to read Lucca’s letter. After going back in time and rescuing her from the burning orphanage, Radius will tell Kid regardless that Luccia wants to see her.

General recruitment-related findings
I’ll try to make this quick.

- Poshul can no longer join neither Lynx nor Serge after the body switch.
- Kiki's father in Home World doesn't offer the Shark Tooth if you've spoken to his Another counterpart beforehand, meaning you can lock yourself out getting Mojo.
- Mojo also has a cutoff time; Kiki's father in Another World ignores the Shark Tooth after you've returned to Another World for the first time as Lynx.
- Greco and NeoFio can join Lynx.
- Luccia cannot join Lynx.
- Miki can join Lynx or Serge anytime after the “save Marbule” concert. It was once stated there’s an “extremely short window of recruitment time” for her, which I found to be false.
- Irenes, however, disappears after said concert, so there is a cutoff for her.
- There’s also a cutoff for Sneff, too. Not sure when it is, but he was gone after the concert.

Anyone else either has no cutoff time or has yet to be tested. In particular, I’m not sure if Mel has a cutoff or not. I don’t think she does, but I could be wrong.

Overall, I recommend an LCR if you’re bored of Chrono Cross and want to try something new. It’s far, far easier to fully outfit a team of 16 compared to a team of 44. A word of wisdom, though—remember that since Zappa never joins, you don’t get the Smith Spirit or Prism equipment.

Thank you for reading; I’m glad to have helped the community!

Original GameFAQs topic is here. Original Chrono Compendium topic is here. Credits to Vehek for clearing up Poshul and Mojo's cutoff times.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 08:20:25 pm by vivify93 »

Vehek

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I looked at some event disassemblies, to try to clear up some of the cutoff times. This is what I have so far.
  • Poshul refuses to join after the body switch (regardless of whether it's Serge or Lynx).
  • The fisherman (Kiki's dad) changes his dialogue after the body switch. The Another World's fisherman ignores the Shark tooth after you've seen the Opassa Beach event upon returning to Another World as Lynx. So you can't get Mojo after the body switch. Oddly, Mojo's recruitment event sets an event flag if he's recruited after the Dead Sea, despite the apparent impossibility of doing so. This event flag only affects the dialogue when you get his level 7 tech.

Edit:
It looks like seeing Sneff clear his debt has to be done before bringing Another Fargo to Home Fargo and starting the concert.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 10:38:08 pm by Vehek »

ZeaLitY

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Is there some kind of GUI for examining Cross events with text strings displayed, like TF? I've been hoping at some point to go through and clean up the Chrono Cross script, and find out when those unused lines are supposed to trigger.

Vehek

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Not really. As alfador mentioned in the To-Do List thread on placing the Cross lines, we have yaz0r's event disassembly which includes the game text. I don't know how understandable they are for a beginner. (IF_JUMP differs from the other "jump if blah" commands, which may make reading the conditions for events confusing if you don't know that.) But that probably belongs outside of this thread.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 05:20:14 am by Vehek »

vivify93

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Thanks for the helpful info, Vehek! :D I'll be modifying the LCR notes in my previous post with it. Do you think there's any more coming?

Vehek

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Don't know yet. Anything else about recruitment that needs clearing up?

I just found that the Kiki's dad's response to hearing about his Another counterpart takes precedence over his conversation in which he gives the Shark Tooth. So if you talk to the Another fisherman before the Home fisherman, you can never get the shark tooth.

vivify93

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Re: Recently did a "least characters" run in CC; found some interesting things.
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2014, 08:22:04 pm »
That should about cover it! The entry on the Compendium Encyclopedia can be updated now.

vivify93

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I just remembered that I forgot to add something.

You can lock yourself out of recruiting Luccia. If you save Kid from her coma after Chronopolis, then go to read Lucca's letter, you'll never be able to recruit Luccia if you haven't yet.

It's kind of hard to do this, but it's still relevant information.

Vehek

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How do you want that added? Just place it under "General recruitment-related findings"?

vivify93

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Sorry for the late reply. Yes, that'd be fine.

Put the text "You can lock yourself out of recruiting Luccia. If you save Kid from her coma after Chronopolis, then go to read Lucca's letter, you'll never be able to recruit Luccia if you haven't yet." in a bullet underneath the text "Luccia cannot join Lynx."

Thank you!