Chrono games connection/similarities with Xenogears

[sergecross73]

Sorry if this has been discussed to death before, but I was replaying Xenogears last night and noticed some similarities to the Chrono games, and had some questions for fans of both.

1.  I was wondering if, either already written elsewhere, or if you guys would help me off the tops of your heads-- how many connections/similarities are there known between the two?

For instance, Lucca is in Lahan village at the very beginning. 
Secondly, Balthasar is an old wise sage in the game, and Melchior and Gaspar are mentioned as well.

2.  Secondly, I remember reading a long time ago that at the very earliest stages of xenogears, it was meant to be a Chrono sequel, but the story and concepts turned into something different, so they decided to make it it's own thing.  I was just wondering if this was something confirmed, or if it was just a rumor/speculation.  It was so long ago I don't remember the source.

Thanks.

[FaustWolf]

Ah, what a grand topic!

Masato Kato was on Xenogears, for one thing (thanks to ZeaLitY for pointing this one out I think):
Xenogears (1998): event planner, script writer, lyricist

So I would greatly suspect that the floating kingdom of Shevat was inspired by Zeal. I'm not sure what the original names for the Three Sages were in the Japanese version of Xenogears; taken in their English context alone, it would be quite easy to say the Three Sages = the Three Gurus, but I don't think Kato named the Gurus Melchior, Belthasar, and Gaspar in the Japanese CT script. Unless I'm mistaken? I thought they were Basch, Bosch, and something...but goodness, what an awesome job Woolsey did with the names. I mean, Sara = Schala? Brilliant! You can say what you want about Woolsey's mistakes, but I adore the names he came up with.

I am a firm believer that Lavos is an interstellar weapon that possibly destroyed its creators before going on to conquer the universe, a la Deus. But to say that Deus built on the Lavos concept is premature, since this has not been addressed by Kato himself, and Tetsuyah Takahashi probably came up with Deus independently. 'Tis within the realm of fanon only.

I, too, heard the rumors about Xeno = Chrono sequel, but I can provide no info to confirm or deny them.

*Was anyone impaled or otherwise stabbed or greatly injured in Xenogears?*
-Ramsus stabbed Miang, did he not? This is getting creepier by the moment...Kato strikes again!! But nobody was stabbed in CT, correct? Cyrus was burned to death, and Crono was vaporized though.

[BROJ]

I am a firm believer that Lavos is an interstellar weapon that possibly destroyed its creators before going on to conquer the universe, a la Deus.

I agree... (Lavos vs. Deus, hmm...  ) That concept would definitely make an awesome fangame; The Origins of Lavos,  pretty sweet if you ask me! 

I, too, heard the rumors about Xeno = Chrono sequel, but I can provide no info to confirm or deny them.

I don't know about it either, but there are many parallels; I shall note a few.

• Aveh vs. Kislev--Gaurdia vs. Porre
• Deus--Lavos(Faustwolf)
• Shevat--Zeal(Faustwolf)
• Weltall--Masamune(Appearance and power reflect heart and conviction.)
• Demi-humans appeared in both.
• Magic powers seeded by Deus--Magic powers seeded by Lavos via Frozen Flame.
• Yggdrassil and Epoch undergo changes to allow new forms of transportation.
• Citan(as well as Wiseman) and Beltharzar both observe the protagonist for a greater purpose.

That's all I can think of right now, I'll repost if I can think of more.

[FaustWolf]

Lavos v. Deus...I like it! One day, it will happen.

Was magic/ether seeded by Deus, or did it come from the Zohar? I know Fei/Lacan/Kim/etc. had a connection to the Zohar, but my memory of Xenogears: Perfect Works is fuzzy, so it may have been Deus after all. In any case, we could sort of argue that the Zohar, as an all-powerful object, bears great similarity to the Frozen Flame.

Good point about demi-humans, too. They were actually called demi-humans in both Cross and Xeno, right? Very interesting; it might reflect Kato's influence on Xenogears.

[BROJ]

Was magic/ether seeded by Deus, or did it come from the Zohar?

Ahh... my mistake, you are right; the power of ether did come from the Zohar, which is still directly connected with Deus. With the Zohar Modifier being the waveform existence trapped by Deus. (eerily similar to the parasite-host situation with Lavos and the Entity...)
IIRC Deus was being disposed of, or being transported to be 'deployed' against a hostile planet when things went wrong and they crashed on a random planet.


I've got another one Waveform Existence of Xenogears--Entity

[BROJ]

Doublepost:

Could it be the remnants of Wazuki's mind within FATE? Doesn't explain the "...that's why I want to smash you to bits" line though. Unless that represents FATE taking over from Wazuki. Sort of like a schizophrenic Darth Vader?

Holy crap!  I just had to pull that discussion, or the concept rather, here. That is exactly like the Graphf inhabiting Fei's father's psyche concept.

[FaustWolf]

Whoa. Holy plot similarities, Batman!

[BROJ]

Some more>>
Id--Lynx (Both are noted to be powerful warrior/assassins and both inhabit the respective protagonist's body.)
Id is an agent of the Zohar--Lynx is an agent of FATE
Zohar--Frozen Flame???(not sure yet...) With both, when humans came into contact with said forces, they gained super(human/natural) powers.

Edit:

So I would greatly suspect that the floating kingdom of Shevat was inspired by Zeal.

Actually, now that I think of it Solaris more represents Zeal. (Reasoning: in both people do not question, or at least not greatly, authority. Citan and Gurus are both agents of said societies that defect. Both places are the pinnacle of technology. Descendents of said societies are considered, at least by themselves, superior to land-dwellers; Lambs in Xenogears=Earthbound in Chrono Trigger. And most importantly both places are floating civilizations that get destroyed via the result of infiltration of the protagonist's party.)

 

[Radical_Dreamer]

Is it really fair to call Id an agent of the Zohar though? Bear in mind, it's been a while since I played, but I recal him being *spoilers* a split personality as a result of child Fei being tormented which had nothing to do with the Zohar*end spoilers*

[Kebrel]

I NEED to find Xenogears, I've played Xenosaga.



Oh and why doesn't someone add PHPBB Spoiler tag code?

[BROJ]

Is it really fair to call Id an agent of the Zohar though? Bear in mind, it's been a while since I played, but I recal him being *spoilers* a split personality as a result of child Fei being tormented which had nothing to do with the Zohar*end spoilers*

His(Id's) "personality" or identity holds the power bestowed by the Zohar(spoiler:Fei is the reincarnation of Abel, a contact or agent of the Zohar.), which is used by Id for selfish purposes. Fei, for the majority of the game, has no idea that this 'power' exists within his entity. And the resulting '"split" was due to him accidentally killing his mother while in her last moments trying to protect him from his own power.

I NEED to find Xenogears, I've played Xenosaga.

PM me, I can help you with that...

Oh and why doesn't someone add PHPBB Spoiler tag code?

I second the motion.

[Radical_Dreamer]

Is it really fair to call Id an agent of the Zohar though? Bear in mind, it's been a while since I played, but I recal him being *spoilers* a split personality as a result of child Fei being tormented which had nothing to do with the Zohar*end spoilers*

His(Id's) "personality" or identity holds the power bestowed by the Zohar(spoiler:Fei is the reincarnation of Abel, a contact or agent of the Zohar.), which is used by Id for selfish purposes. Fei, for the majority of the game, has no idea that this 'power' exists within his entity. And the resulting '"split" was due to him accidentally killing his mother while in herlast moments trying to protect him from his own power.

But that's Id using the Zohar's power for his own reasons. That doesn't make him an agent of the Zohar, simply a beneficiary.

[BROJ]

But that's Id using the Zohar's power for his own reasons. That doesn't make him an agent of the Zohar, simply a beneficiary.

(spoiler:Fei is the reincarnation of Abel, a contact or agent of the Zohar.)

Id is a part of Fei. Or rather Fei is a part of Id. Which both SPOILER: are under the control of a *master* nameless personality which is locked in the room of memories.

Edit: In addition, Id is in essence Graphf, an incomplete contact.

[Radical_Dreamer]

I didn't really get the understanding that Fei and Id were in anyway controlled by the Coward (as Id refers to him). It seemed to me that the Coward tried to interact with anything, Fei and Id included, as little as possible.

[BROJ]

I didn't really get the understanding that Fei and Id were in anyway controlled by the Coward (as Id refers to him). It seemed to me that the Coward tried to interact with anything, Fei and Id included, as little as possible.

He was the 'first' personality, so the 'coward' has seniority in decision making, at the very least he's supposed to keep Id in check. It is just until late in the game that he 'wakes' up.

This excerpt should help clear things up for you.

This sets up the constant struggle between the superego and the id. Id hates the superego, naming him 'coward', since he sees him as the reason for his pain. More surprisingly, he also blames him for the death of their mother, the faint and under-developed Oedipus complex showing through. Normally the force that keeps the id in check, the coward locked himself away during the pain caused by the experiments to test the contact. This allowed the ego to be over-run by the id, causing the person to be Fei to lose control. He can, in a fact complementary to most DIDs, not recall anything later than 3 years ago, which was when Id was brought to control by Khan after the destruction of Elru. The superego just hides away from it all until very late in the game when Id, Fei, and himself come to terms with the mystery of their mother.